By: Makhancora dasa
The root cause of the “book changes “ controversy is that on the 22nd of June 1977 Srila Prabhupada spots a book change in the first (also known as original) edition of the Srimad-Bhagavatam. An exchange follows on the topic of “rascal editors “, where Srila Prabhupada claims that:
1. He cannot check the editorial work and they are editing without any authority:
“It is not possible for me to check, and they are doing all nonsense, freedom.”
(Conversation, “Rascal Editors,” and Morning Talk — June 22, 1977, Vrndavana)
2. That Hayagriva “has changed so many things“ in the original edition of Easy Journey to Other Planets:
“That Easy Journey, original, this (indistinct) Hayagriva has changed so many things.”
(Conversation, “Rascal Editors,” and Morning Talk — June 22, 1977, Vrndavana)
3. Devotees with philosophical grounding should be appointed to supervise future editing:
Prabhupada: So on the whole, these dangerous things are going on. How to check it?
Tamala Krsna: There has to be strong philosophical leaders who can check this, like Satsvarupa and Jayadvaita.
Prabhupada: Hm.
Tamala Krsna: They have to also be included in the decisions of the BBT. It can’t simply be that managers make decisions.
Prabhupada: Yes. Without their sanction, there will be… Let them… These all rascals…
(Conversation, “Rascal Editors,” and Morning Talk — June 22, 1977, Vrndavana)
4. Next printing should be again to the original way:
“You write one letter that “Why you have made so many changes?” And whom to write? Who will care? All rascals are there. Write to Satsvarupa that “This is the position. They are doing anything and everything at their whim.” The next printing should be again to the original way.”
(Conversation, “Rascal Editors,” and Morning Talk — June 22, 1977, Vrndavana)
It is very clear from this conversation that Srila Prabhupada complains about unauthorized changes in the first editions of his books. The question is: should these books be printed and distributed anyway as they are the books Srila Prabhupada himself used in his lila for preaching and the editing is done by devotees Srila Prabhupada himself approved of at certain time? Or should the changes be corrected with the original words of Srila Prabhupada put back in place despite the fact that Srila Prabhupada is not here physically to approve such new editions?
Srila Prabhupada suggested on various occasions concrete examples on how to correct his books. For example he stated that the word “cattle raising “ (raising cows for slaughter) should be replaced for “cow protection“ in the Bhagavad-gita As It Is, in the verse where Krsna prescribes the occupational duty of a vaisya in the varnasrama system (Bg 18.44). Some devotees claim that only these corrections should be made and nothing else. They claim that correcting anything more than this would be surpassing Srila Prabhupada’s authorization of the early editors. Thus an offense would be made to the early editors and to Srila Prabhupada as well. They also interpret Srila Prabhupada’s statement: “The next printing should be again to the original way“ as referring to the already published editions. All these theories break apart when examined on the basis of the Rascal editors conversation and Srila Prabhupada’s own statements and we would like to highlight this for the benefit of advancing this controversy into a resolution.
Therefore devotees who oppose our B.L.I.S.S. book-editing project are invited to answer the following:
1: If Prabhupada wants to reprint the 1972 Bhagavatam edition and only fix a few typos like „of the sages“ to „oh, sages“, why is he agreeing on setting up an editing board of philosophically erudite devotees like Satsvarupa and Jayadvaita? What is there to philosophize?
„Prabhupada: So you… What you are going… It is very serious situation. You write one letter that “Why you have made so many changes?” And whom to write? Who will care? All rascals are there. Write to Satsvarupa that “This is the position. They are doing anything and everything at their whim.” The next printing should be again to the original way.
Tamala Krsna: They should have a board of Satsvarupa and Jayadvaita.
Prabhupada: Hm.
Tamala Krsna: Those two men are both in Los Angeles now.
Prabhupada: So write them immediately that “The rascal editors, they are doing havoc, and they are being maintained by Ramesvara and party.”
(Conversation, “Rascal Editors,” and Morning Talk — June 22, 1977, Vrndavana)
2: Why Prabhupada doesn’t protest when Tamal Krsna suggests to go through all the books and re-edit them? Prabhupada simply concludes: „They cannot change anything.“
Prabhupada: So WHAT TO DO?
Tamala Krsna: So I think we just have to be slow but sure. We have to GO OVER ALL OF THE BOOKS and make sure that they’re perfect before they’re printed again. Not be in such a rush, print, print, and print all nonsense.
Svarupa Damodara: One time I had a strong talk with Ramesvara Maharaja about our article for printing in the Back to Godhead. I didn’t want them to be printed in Back to Godhead because they made so many changes…
Prabhupada: Oh, he has dared to change yours also?
Svarupa Damodara: Oh, yes. They change so many things in our article. And it was on the telephone. I was speaking to him in Atlanta from Los Angeles. And I told him that “This article should not be printed because they have made so many changes.” And I didn’t like that. Then they answered that “It has already been offset, and BBT policy is always to be rushing. It’s always BBT policy.” Then I told him that “If you sacrifice quality on the strength of rushing, then it is your business, but that’s not my way, so please don’t print it.” But in any case, they have printed anyway that article. And we all had a bad reaction.
Prabhupada: So you bring this to Satsvarupa. They cannot change anything.”
(Conversation, “Rascal Editors,” and Morning Talk — June 22, 1977, Vrndavana)
Here Tamal clearly suggests to go over ALL THE BOOKS (including the Bhagavad-gita As It Is). Can anyone with a sane mind think that Srila Prabhupada would calmly let this suggestion pass if it was such an offense? He clearly asks for a solution. Tamal gives the solution: Go over all the books and fix whatever changes have been done by the editors. The fact that Srila Prabhupada does not protest, does not reject, does not in any way disprove such an idea means it is at least a good idea to consider. There is also a follow-up correspondence between Tamal Krsna and Radha-Vallabha (who is being criticized by Prabhupada in the conversation), where Tamal paraphrases Srila Prabhupada on who is authorized to edit the books (the one who does not make mistakes a.k.a. change things) and that the editing process should continue („all the corrections in the new editions“ without „unnecessary changes“):
“So far as who is “authorized” and “unauthorized”, it is the same as when the GBC spoke with Srila Prabhupada about “legal” and “illegal” distribution. Srila Prabhupada’s definition of what is legal is “whatever sells my books.” In the same way, as long as the editors edit everything perfectly they are “authorized” and when they make mistakes, whatever the reason is then they become “unauthorized.” When you do everything nicely you are praised and when some mistake is there, you are a “rascal.” This is true for all of us.
…
In any case His Divine Grace has not thought about this editing matter since the day of that conversation which was nearly a month ago. Please just try to make all the corrections in the new editions and everything will be alright, and of course don’t make any unnecessary changes. Please take Yasodanandan’s letter in a constructive way.”
(From: Tamal Krishna to Radha-Vallabha, July 22nd, 1977)
Note: someone may argue that letters from Tamal are no argument or evidence, cuz he is a demon or whatnot. Mind, that the July 9th Letter was also written by Tamal… the letter from Tamal to Radha-Vallabha makes perfect sense in the light of what was discussed in the “Rascal editors” conversation and has to be taken into account as Tamal is a direct witness to conversations that took place off the record on this topic and Srila Prabhupada’s secretary at that time. The editing is to continue but in a proper manner – no changes and correct all the nonsense that has been printed previously.
3. In an instance before ordering the next printing to the original way by Prabhupada, Yasodanandana Prabhu mentiones that the word „caricature“ was left out from the text in that Srimad Bhagavatam:
Prabhupada: To find out some job to fill up the belly. Otherwise he’ll starve if he doesn’t get any job. And he’s finding out guru. Job-guru. Now do the needful. Otherwise everything will be spoiled. These rascal editorial… That Easy Journey, original, this (indistinct) Hayagriva has changed so many things. Tamala Krsna: He actually took out the whole part about their going to the moon being childish. He deleted the whole section.
Yasoda-nandana: Also in the Bhagavatam, where Prabhupada was talking about Lord Buddha… You mentioned that if the followers of Lord Buddha do not close the slaughterhouse, there is no meaning to such a caricature. That word was very nice. But in new book that word is not there any more. They have pulled the word. The meaning of the word is not… So many times.
Prabhupada: It is very serious situation. Ramesvara is in direct…
Svarupa Damodara: I think they’re working too independently without consulting properly. Yasoda-nandana: Sometimes they appeal that “We can make better English,” so they change like that, just like in the case of Isopanisad. There are over a hundred changes. So where is the need? Your words are sufficient. The potency is there. When they change, it is something else.
Svarupa Damodara: That’s actually a very dangerous mentality.
Yasoda-nandana: What is it going to be in five years? It’s going to be a different book.
Prabhupada: So you… What you are going… It is very serious situation. You write one letter that “Why you have made so many changes?” And whom to write? Who will care? All rascals are there. Write to Satsvarupa that “This is the position. They are doing anything and everything at their whim.” The next printing should be again to the original way.
(Conversation, “Rascal Editors,” and Morning Talk — June 22, 1977, Vrndavana)
Yasodanandana points out the change, saying that it was unnecessary indicating that it should be there in the text. Prabhupada doesn’t approve or disapprove, he doesn’t address the point directly. Let’s say, theoretically, that you are now in charge of the BBT; would you print the new Bhagavatam with the “caricature“ or without it? And why?
4. What about the Sri Isopanisad? Which version should be reprinted? Yasodanandana is complaining about the Isopanisad, Prabhupada concludes the whole exchange with “the next printing should be again to the original way.”
Yasoda-nandana: Sometimes they appeal that “We can make better English,” so they change like that, just like in the case of Isopanisad. There are over a hundred changes. So where is the need? Your words are sufficient. The potency is there. When they change, it is something else.
Svarupa Damodara: That’s actually a very dangerous mentality.
Yasoda-nandana: What is it going to be in five years? It’s going to be a different book.
Prabhupada: So you… What you are going… It is very serious situation. You write one letter that “Why you have made so many changes?” And whom to write? Who will care? All rascals are there. Write to Satsvarupa that “This is the position. They are doing anything and everything at their whim.” The next printing should be again to the original way.
Tamala Krsna: They should have a board of Satsvarupa and Jayadvaita.
Prabhupada: Hm.
(Conversation, “Rascal Editors,” and Morning Talk — June 22, 1977, Vrndavana)
Please let us know which one is the correct version:
“To follow the regulative principles one must have gone under the shelter of a bonafide spiritual master. The transcendental message comes down from the spiritual master to the disciple in the regulative principles and not in the hazardous way of nescient education.” (Iso mantra 10 – BTG 1960)
“To follow the regulative principles, one must go under the shelter of a bona fide spiritual master. The transcendental message comes down from the spiritual master to the disciple with the regulative principles, and not in the hazardous way of nescient education.” (Iso mantra 10, 1969)
“To follow the regulative principles, one must take shelter of a bona fide spiritual master. The transcendental message and regulative principles come down from the spiritual master to the disciple. (Iso 10-1974)
5. Easy Journey to Other Planets…
Prabhupada says on 2 different occasions that Hayagriva has changed MANY things:
„Now do the needful. Otherwise everything will be spoiled. These rascal editorial… That Easy Journey, original, this (indistinct) Hayagriva has changed so many things.“
(Conversation, “Rascal Editors,” and Morning Talk — June 22, 1977, Vrndavana)
„Prabhupada: He cannot see mistake. He is mistake. (laughter) He should… That is being done by this rascal. I don’t want. And the Hayagriva has…, the Easy Journey, he has changed so many things. That… He is now bad character. You should not maintain him.“
(Room Conversation — February 27, 1977, Mayapura)
And another indication is here:
Tamala Krsna: They think the animals don’t have any feelings or soul.
Prabhupada: No, they think in so many way, nonsense rascals. What is the value of their thinking? Rascals, all number one rascals. They say, “Why do you…?” But they, how they can believe? Their whole life is belief, no factual knowledge.
Tamala Krsna: How they will believe that man didn’t go to the moon? When Srila Prabhupada wrote that in Easy Journey, Hayagriva took it out of the book, saying that “How will they believe this?” Prabhupada: Believe. “I believe.” You can say also, “I believe.” You can say, “I believe.” Where is the standard?
Tamala Krsna: Krsna.
Prabhupada: This is their life. “I believe.” Whatever he believes, that’s all right. This is going on. (Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta — August 11, 1977, Vrndavana)
One significant change made by Hayagriva against what Prabhupada originally wrote in the Easy Journey is that in the version printed by Srila Prabhupada in India there is the following description of one of the five essential items preparing one for the journey back home, back to Godhead:
“3. One should hear the transcendental topics enunciated in the Bhagwat. This hearing is made possible through platform lectures as well as through press propaganda. And this item includes the other two items as above mentioned.”
(EJtOP Delhi edition)
The “above mentioned” items are associating with devotees and chanting of the holy name of the Lord. However, in the 1972 first western printing, it says:
“3. One should hear the transcendental topics enunciated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. This hearing is made possible through platform lectures by bona fide devotees and by authorized translations of the Bhagavatam.
(EJtOP 1: Antimaterial Worlds, 1972)
In other words Srila Prabhupada clearly writes here that one can associate with devotees through hearing and reading. This information has been removed by Hayagriva for no reason!
In the rascal editors conversation Srila Prabhupada simply expresses his dissatisfaction with the editing of Easy Journey done by Hayagriva, but he doesn’t point out any specific things to be fixed. “He changed so many things.” That’s all there is to it. Now, if the Easy Journey to Other Planets is to be reprinted for distribution, how would you do it to satisfy Prabhupada? Would you reprint the Easy Journey again as it was printed „originally“ in 1972, edited by Hayagriva, or would you re-edit the Indian version of Easy Journey and print that with this important point about associating with devotees through the sound in it, as written originally by Srila Prabhupada, although Srila Prabhupada doesn’t give such order directly? Yes/no, why? How would you satisfy Srila Prabhupada in this case?
Srila Prabhupada wants his books to be perfect:
Prabhupada: We have to edit in such a way, present our literature in such a way that it will be gospel truth.
Devotee: Oh!
Prabhupada: Authorized. That people will refer to our books. So we have to very cautiously print our literatures. It is not ordinary literature, fiction, or something, story. Just like Bhagavad-gita and Bhagavata. They are not ordinary. literature. Without any four defects of human frailties. Bhrama, pramada, vipralipsa, also… We are following those literatures. So our writing should be so authorized that in future one may not find any fault, contradiction.
(Conversation with the GBC — May 25, 1972, Los Angeles)
Vidura Mahatma dasa, after being asked these questions fell silent, neither Tim Lee has any answer. I challenge the opponents and critics of our B.L.I.S.S. project to answer these questions and thus prove their grounded position in understanding the desire of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Svami Prabhupada regarding his transcendental books.
Your lowly servant
Makhancora dasa
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada!
” Wise People Ignore The Acts of Foolish Persons.”
OM TAT SAT.
Hare Krishna. All Glories To Srila Prabhupada.
when there is a need to blaspheme devotees, oh, you are immediately enthusiastic. but when there is need to use the brain and come up with solutions according to Prabhupada´s instructions, then this is the only thing you can say. flapping corpse. so flap, flap… you are a dead corpse, man…
you have no answers, right? you cant say anything. its beyond your capacity to comprehend. you feel like a lost child. i see. so, just be silent and dont make a bigger nonsense out of yourself. you are ridiculous.
Is time for Prabhupadas books to be corrected and show the real Power,
Purujit has done an amazing work, now we can hear Prabhupada as it is,with out hayagrivas or any body elses speculations…
THE PURE DEVOTEE REMAINS,, JAY SRILA PRABHUPADA.
HARE KRISHNA.
This is an extravagance, going from one extreme to another. It will not help anyone spiritually, as it is not helping by later unnecessary and harmful changes being done in Srila Prabhupada’s books by Jayadvaita Godasa.
In order to make any changes, even one small letter or a dot, an editor should be at least established in sattva-guna. He should be respectful to those who are more elevated than him, or free from false pride. He should not think himself equal or greater than Sri Guru or Sri Krsna. He should be sincere and fully surrendered to Krsna and his Spiritual Master. This is the minimum qualification, which if not fulfilled, does not make anyone competent to serve spiritually. The second qualification is editing talent, which Srila Prabhupada recognized in Hayagriva Prabhu, and therefore engaged him in the service of editing of Bhagavad-gita and Srimad Bhagavatam. The occasional fall-downs were seen as temporary and Srila Prabhupada was always prepared to forgive Hayagriva and resume his service.
From the letter of Srila Prabhupada to Hayagriva (January 15, 1968):
“… Rayarama may not be as qualified as you are, but his one qualification that he is fully surrendered to Krishna and his Spiritual Master is the first class recommendation for his editing any one of our literatures, because editing of Vedic literatures does not depend on academic education…”
Hare Krsna. All glories to Srila Prabhupada
so, Prabhu, after Hayagriva, there cannot be anyone qualified to edit Prabhupada´s books? and, on top of that, do it properly and not insert his own ideas or kick out Prabhupada´s words from them?
Yes, prabhu. If you ask me if someone who is qualified can make an improved edition of Srila Prabhupada´s books, my answer is yes he can do it. And if he can present the same knowledge as it is, without any adulteration, personal motivation, manipulation or hidden agenda, then he has my full support. Of course, I am not Srila Prabhupada, and I cannot tell if further reediting of the author’s book should be done or how it should be done, and on which scale. This you have to consult Srila Prabhupada and/or his representative(s).
But, for example, I personally reject the edited books made by Jayadvaita “Swami”, as he is not honest in his dealings and has a high estimation of himself. And also, he is criticizing his guru as inferior, which is not a proper behavior of a guru-disciple relationship.
My opinion is, it is better to not to change anything which already works well and is settled-up perfectly. Even there are seemingly some mistakes found in Srila Prabhupada’s transcendental literature, still they have a potency to make an honest reader a great devotee of Krsna. So, why change or fix anything (except printing errors, missing words, letters, or similar)? Or, should I ask who we want to glorify or give credit to? Ourselves or Krsna and His devotees like Srila Prabhupada and all those who are helping him to spread Hare Krsna movement in the Western countries?
Gauranga das prabhu.. “Yes, prabhu. If you ask me if someone who is qualified can make an improved edition of Srila Prabhupada´s books, my answer is yes he can do it. And if he can present the same knowledge as it is, without any adulteration, personal motivation, manipulation or hidden agenda, then he has my full support.”
How on earth can anyone, ‘qualified’ or whatever, make an ‘improved’ edition of Srila Prabhupada’s books… and as you say having ‘same knowledge as it is, without adulteration, personal motivation, manipulation or hidden agenda’, then HOW is it IMPROVED, apart from PROOF-READING for spelling or punctuation mistakes!
These are Srila Prabhupada’s transcendental books that he left us with for the next 10,000 years.. NO NEED FOR ANY IMPROVED EDITIONS!
Yfs,
Balaram das
Yes, prabhu. Anyone CAN get a Srila Prabhupada book and edit it (the license is another thing). And if the second edition is the same, except some grammatical or punctuational improvements, than I will accept it as good or better than the first edition. So why no need for any improved editions?
Hare Krsna. All glories to Srila Prabhupada
Gauranga Prabhu, so what is your SOLUTION to the Easy Journey issue?
Write your own BOOK and fly your own kite where the wind is favourable for your activities. That is the best SOLUTION.
Don’t touch Srila Prabhupada BOOKS at all.
Hope you get it, Kali Chela Makhancor.
Purujit ADDED this sentence in his CHANGED BG just SIMILAR to what Jayadvaita did and
the MEANING was changed:
Next change, the ADDED text in the purport.
**Nor by independent study of books of knowledge can one progress in
spiritual life.**
**Unauthorised changes to Srila Prabhupada’s Bhagavad-Gita made by Jayadwaita swami**
Note: spot the difference between the old version and the new.
Here he has inserted **souls** and **they**
Bg 4.34 (new version by Jayadwaita swami)
Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized **souls** can impart knowledge unto you because **they** have seen the truth.
Note: here he has ADDED a text which was NEVER there in the original.
**Nor by independent study of books of knowledge can one progress in
spiritual life.**
PURPORT Bg 4.34 (new version by Jayadwaita swami)
The Bhagavatam (6.3.19) says dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam: the path of religion is directly enunciated by the Lord. Therefore, mental
speculation or dry arguments cannot help lead one to the right path. **Nor by independent study of books of knowledge can one progress in spiritual life.** One has to approach a bona fide spiritual master to receive the knowledge.
Bg 4.34 ( Srila Prabhupada’s Original untampered version)
Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized **soul**can impart knowledge unto you because **he** has seen the truth.
PURPORT
The Bhagavatam (6.3.19) says, dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam–the path of religion is directly enunciated by the Lord. Therefore, mental
speculation or dry arguments cannot help one progress in spiritual life. One has to approach a bona fide spiritual master to receive the knowledge.
The changes made are **very significant** because they change the
**entire** meaning of the text.
Diksa (transcendental Knowledge) is imparted by one self-realized
person–the acarya (Srila Prabhupada)
It is **one singular** person uttama-adhikari( Srila Prabhupada) that transmits diksa (see antya 4.192-4.194) into the madhyama-adhikaris heart. Krishna’s pastimes reflected in the heart of Prabhupada are transmitted (televised) in the Madhyama-adhikari’s heart when he chants offenselessly —this is transcendental knowledge(diksa).
Therefore the plural words “The self-realized **souls** can impart
knowledge unto you because **they** have seen the truth” are totally
incorrect. The clever manipulation OF WORD JUGGLERY “they” means Jayadwaita swami wants to IMPOSE a new breed of so called INITIATING gurus in ISKCON—in spite of Srila Prabhupada’s clear instruction of July 9 1977 letter to the society of order to institute a Ritvik system (which incidently was NEVER revoked by Srila Prabhupada). The bogus initiating gunda “guru” brutes dismentled Srila Prabhupada’s system.
Adi 1.35
A devotee **must** have only **one initiating spiritual master** because in the scriptures acceptance of more than one is always forbidden.
Next change, the ADDED text in the purport.
**Nor by independent study of books of knowledge can one progress in
spiritual life.**
Srila Prabhupada’s books are not ordinary books of knowledge. Therefore this change is totally meaningless and unjustified. This are** not**
Prabhupada’s words in the Bhagavad-Gita.
Here it appears Jayadwaita swami is trying to manipulate the devotees into searching for a “guru” of the concocted 2/3 majority votes. Is it not?
Srila Prabhupada and his books are not different.
Adi-lila 1-35
There is **no difference between the spiritual master’s instructions and the spiritual master himself**. in his absence, therefore, his words of direction should be the pride of the disciple.
Note: Srila Prabhupada’s words of direction—-Srimad-Bhagavatam there is no difference between Srila Prabhupada’s Instruction and himself (the uttama-adhikari is powerful to give diksa from his books).
SB 1.7.22
The spiritual master, **by his words**, can penetrate into the heart of the suffering person and **inject knowledge transcendental**, which alone can extinguish the fire of material existence.
SB 2.9.8
the potency of transcendental sound is **never minimised** because the
vibrator is **apparently absent**.
Hare Krsna Prabhus,
Jai Srila Prabhupada! I have been observing silently the on going discussions on the 72 edition of the Gita. You have all made wonderful contributions to defending Srila Prabhupada’s authorized edition. If I may add in my 5 cent worth. About a week back I decided to listen to Srila Prabhupada’s lecture on the 4.34 verse on Prabhupadavani.org there were 2 lectures available one was 1969. The year is significant for by then the Gita was already printed although it was the abridged version but the verses were the same. Lo and behold Madhudvisa Prabhu reads the translation which is the same as the 72 edition. Srila Prabhupada proceeds to lecture on it. To make things absolutely clear about the ” neither by independent study of books he asked Madhudvisa Prabhu to read the ENTIRE purport. In. fact every few lines Srila Prabhupada interjects with further explanations on HIS OWN PURPORT. Throughout the reading there is no ” neither by independent study of books” why doesn’t Serial Prabhupada object to the 72 translation of the verse also why doesn’t he say :” hey you missed out the “neither by independent study of books” the answer is obvious; He accepts and authorizes that version of 4.34. Even for argument sake if the first transcript of 4.34 had him say “neither by independent study” the point is he authorized Hayagriva to make that change that should be self-evident to anyone who here the lecture as Prabhupada doesn’t disagree with the translation or purport. That would have been the perfect opportunity to point it out. Again the first draft/transcript of the dictation tapes cannot be used by B.L.I.S.S. since 1) How do they know which version of a draft/transcript is this “independent study” coming from 2) They cannot possibly know Srila Prabhupada’s conversations with Hayagriva. Say for example he did initially use that phrase there is nothing stopping him (Srila Prabhupada) from deciding to modify his own purport and translation of verse it is just like he says :”bring me milk and then later he says :”no don’t bring me milk bring me water” a disciple cannot in the name of service bring milk and (thinking he is pleasing the guru) claiming he is modifying the current instructions to bring it closer to his early instruction. The reality is IGNORANCE IS B.L.I.S.S. the offence being committed will have significant retributions
Hare Krsna, Krsnapada Prabhu, thank you very much.
you say:
Throughout the reading there is no ” neither by independent study of books” why doesn’t Serial Prabhupada object to the 72 translation of the verse also why doesn’t he say :” hey you missed out the “neither by independent study of books” the answer is obvious; He accepts and authorizes that version of 4.34. Even for argument sake if the first transcript of 4.34 had him say “neither by independent study” the point is he authorized Hayagriva to make that change that should be self-evident to anyone who here the lecture as Prabhupada doesn’t disagree with the translation or purport. That would have been the perfect opportunity to point it out. Again the first draft/transcript of the dictation tapes cannot be used by B.L.I.S.S. since 1) How do they know which version of a draft/transcript is this “independent study” coming from 2) They cannot possibly know Srila Prabhupada’s conversations with Hayagriva. Say for example he did initially use that phrase there is nothing stopping him (Srila Prabhupada) from deciding to modify his own purport and translation of verse it is just like he says :”bring me milk and then later he says :”no don’t bring me milk bring me water” a disciple cannot in the name of service bring milk and (thinking he is pleasing the guru) claiming he is modifying the current instructions to bring it closer to his early instruction.
so that is a very nice point, similarly, in my questions which were still, up to this day not dealt with at all, the question is there: Tamal suggests to re-edit ALL the books before the new printing and Prabhupada doesnt protest. also, as you rightly say, the latest instruction rules over the previous. similarly, Prabhupadas dissatisfaction with Hayagrivas editing rules over any previous approval. thank you very much, Prabhu, for these points, you have understood very nicely.
btw, the °independent study° is there in the manuscript typed by Prabhupada. if that is not an authority to you, what Prabhupada types himself, then that is your thing. i personally prefer Prabhupada before Hayagriva. Hayagriva is authorized to change Prabhupadas words according to you? to kick out the moon landing failure from the introduction or from the Easy Journey? when did Prabhupada authorize anyone to change his words?
to Mahesh Raja:
Next change, the ADDED text in the purport.
**Nor by independent study of books of knowledge can one progress in
spiritual life.**
no, it is typed by Prabhupada personally. it was removed/changed by Hayagriva.
thank you, Prabhu, you say: ” So, why change or fix anything (except printing errors, missing words, letters, or similar)?” – so when this is being done, is it good or bad? actually, many things, that Prabhupada said or wrote have been changed by the editors. Prabhupada complains, for example in the case of Easy Journey he directly criticizes Hayagriva for “changing so many things”. And this is my specific question, how do we want to reprint the Easy Journey? Prabhupada says it is changed, he doesnt like it. The first western edition is already changed with important points missing against the Delhi printed version written by Prabhupada himself, just to give you a small example:
“There are other 44 items to be followed by the desiring candidates but Lord Chaitanya has selected only five items ‘ which are most important out of them regard being had to the conditions of the present mode of civic life. They are as follows:-
1. To associate with the devotes. Association of the devotees is made possible by hearing them attentively, by asking them relevant enquiries, by supplying them foodstufr and by accepting from them food stuff also, by giving them charities and accepting from them whatsoever they offer.
2. To Chant the holy name of the Lord at all circumstances. The chanting of the Lord’s name is an easy job and the most inexpensive attempt also. One can chant the name of the Lord out of His innumerable names at any time and try to make it offence-less. There are ten offences in the method of such charning of the transcendental Name. And those offneces must be avoided as far as possible but at all cost the holy name of the Lord can be chanted without any restriction at all times.
3. One should hear the transcendental topics enunciated in the Bhagwat. This hearing is made possible through platform lectures as well as through press propaganda. And this item includes the other two items as above mentioned.” (EJtOP Delhi edition)
However, in the 1972 first printing, the “original”(?), it says:
“3. One should hear the transcendental topics enunciated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. This hearing is made possible through platform lectures by bona fide devotees and by authorized translations of the Bhagavatam. (EJtOP 1: Antimaterial Worlds, 1972)
so here, the point that one can associate with a pure devotee through sound is omitted. isnt this important? isnt this nectar for the ritvik devotees? smash for the “living guru” followers? should it be edited back or not? Prabhupada doesnt specify anything that he wants to have fixed and how. he simply says he is dissatisfied. So what do we do now? the first western printing is changed and the only original is Prabhupada´s Delhi edition. but that needs editing, because Prabhupada wants his books in nice english. What would be your suggestion, Prabhu? Jaya!
Prabhu, I understand your point. But to answer your question is it good or bad to reedit Srila Prabhupada’s books, it depends on circumstances. My advice is to first consult Srila Prabhupada directly or any of his book editing trustees, and ask for their suggestions and also for the license to use, change and publish the author’s original books? I hope this will help in your desire to satisfy Guru and Krsna.
Hare Krsna. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
So with “advise’ like that how could Makanchora go wrong? Ha! ha!…. Wow! these muppets are something else! As soon as the Doctor lets Makanchora out of his straight-jacket, he is going to contact Srila Prabhupada directly! Delusion has just become psychosis!, give this guy another “ANTI-PSYCHOTIC!”
yes, according to sudarsana prabhu here, you cannot consult with Prabhupada… and if you do, you are a psycho. very sublime siddhanta indeed, worth a °Prabhupadanuga° bravo!
In the absolute world there is no distinction as me, or he, and I. Krishna and His representative is the same. Just like Krishna can be present simultaneously in millions of places. Similarly, the Spiritual Master also can be present wherever the disciple wants. A Spiritual Master is the principle, not the body. Just like a television can be seen in thousands of places by the principle of relay monitoring.
Letter to: Malati — Allston, Mass 28 May, 1968
Eh ……….. Kali Chela Makhancor, you are posing yourself to be a disciple of Srila Prabhupada. You are such a shameless person.
You know very well that you are not even properly initiated by an authorized Brahmana who is free from material desire. Your Brahmana Purujit never even had his own Brahmana initiation who broke his own vows.
What kind of a joke is that ?
STOP quoting Srila Prabhupada to bewilder yourself.
You are full of pride of what little you know and understand through the mercy of HDG. Srila Prabhupada VANI.
Please stop exploiting Srila Prabhupada VANI simply to satisfy your whimsical mind.
You are so blinded with the pride that you can not see and understand what you write which is total useless and meaningless because you are on the platform of the height of your false ego.
That is why you are under the mode of ignorance is bliss for you.
You have been told to stop wasting your time in writing your meaningless comment which reflects your personality of Kali Chela following another Kali Chela Purujit.
Go and fly your kite some where else where the wind is favourable for your activity.
Hope this sinks in your mind which is full of pride.
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
At Last Srila Prabhupadas books will be abaliable in its pure form with out the intrussion of any speculation from hayagriva or somebody else.
PURUJIT Prabhu has done an amazing work reediting the books and breinging them to the original position to be used for future generations just as our beloved Srila Prabhupada wanted.
SRILA PRABHUPADA WILL BE ABALIABLE FOR THE NEXT 10 THOUSAND YEARS, ALL GLORYES TO SRILA PRABHUPADA..HARE KRISHNA
The 1973 Bhagavad-gita was also read by Srila Prabhupada, featured in the lectures, many readers and devotees. Srila Prabhupada also said that if one reads “Bhagavad-gita as it is”, he fully understands the science of Krsna consciousness. I have a very old Hungarian translation from the original. For me it’s perfectly perfect and if I just read that, it’s quite enough. Purujits would be better if you were looking at another job. I think they’re bored there. There is no such attention, popularity. Purujit and his team say that they serve Prabhupada, but my opinion is that the service can be overdone. I serve the guru so much that I’m too pushy then it’s not good again. To overthrow the 1973 Bhagavad-gita, it is in itself nonsense.
Who is this Makancora who teaches the old Prabhupadanugas? How do they take the courage to be such ultra reformers?
1973? Prabhuji, no intoxication, remember?
if you like your 1973 Gita, then read it, who is obstructing you?
old Prabhupadanugas? what is this old? you havent read your Bhagavad-gita sufficiently. get real.
another nonsense without any answers.
how do you want to print the Easy Journey according to the what Prabhupada said in the Rascal Editors conversation? what is your solution?
no solution, simply blabbering around the internet. go back to your rathole and be happy.
Dear Makhancor! It would be good to answer normally, but I find it unnecessary, because you are convinced of your own right.
A morning conversation does not authorize you to completely replace the 1972 Bhagavad-gita. It would be steep to say that Srila Prabhupada would empower Makhachora to write Prabhupada’s book again. You are suffering from some megalomaniac disease. I think you have not found your place in the outdoors and as a kid, and you want to be someone now. You use Prabhupada’s movement for your own purposes. I hope the devotees realize what is right. I trust that madness will end. Stay calm, do not want to redeem the world. You also wanted to come to Budapest for last year, and it just came to me that you have to be a fame, you want to be a guru. I can feel this when someone is not clear about their intentions. Dear Makhancora prabu! look into your heart, what’s up there. Is there honesty there? Humility? How is your proud level? Tell me why you want to keep lectures? What is your real intention to go to Budapest, Mexico? Analyze please.
What is your real intention to go to Budapest, Mexico? Asks Anatha das to Makhancora.
The answer is very obevious. It is the same as Makhancora’s initiating guru Purujit has.
After Purujit’s initiation, he flew also to abroad for his trip to recruit possible like minded potential candidates who could help him for his personal motivated agenda and he found Makhancora who is vigorously helping Purujit’s personal agenda to help himself.
Besides, Purujit also got another one whom he initiated and gave name Ramchandra. Ramchandra was kicked out by Purujit, later on. Ramchandra is back again after his recent trip to Vrindaban, India. Perhaps, he did not have any place to stay besides Purujit’s place, he joined Purujit again as it appears.
Purujit also have this person miguel alexis ramos in Spain who writes also to defend Purujit’s project.
These are the three Chamchas of Purujit has in stock so far who make all kinds of noises in order to get accepted and recognized by the Prabhupadanuga world wide for fulfilling their personal agenda one way or the other.
Therefore, Purujit’s team headed by Makhancora can not look into their respective heart, what’s up there. When the proud level is soooooooooooo very high, there is no room for Humility and Honesty, Anatha das Prabhu, you know it and I know it also. but not them. Sorry, Prabhu. That is the REAL INTENTION to go to Budapest,Mexico.
Thank you for bringing it up so that every one should know it. If I miss something in answering to your questions, then, you can fill in the blanks further.
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Mr. [snip],
my purpose to meet you in Budapest on my way to Spain was to meet and associate with devotees, and to have a little kirtan, you see? but you have messed it up, you cant organize even a sinlge meeting of devotees so they can chant under one roof. you have taken over my conversation with this another Prabhu there, a big preacher [snip] took over to organize things and the result was that TWO TIMES we couldnt meet and chant. so this is your preaching… wonderful!
so far my intention to go to Mexico is concerned, that was to affiliate a centre and that has been done. we have given initiation of Srila Prabhupadas behalf to a worthy devotee here, Krsna Kisora Prabhu and he will now go on spreading the sankirtan movement in Mexico with the cooperation and support of all the BLISS members. unity, cooperation, brotherhood, things which are out of your dictionaries. so my journeys to spain and mexico were fruitful, there are temples, programmes and unified devotees. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada! and what do you do? show me your preaching. oh, sorry, you have no program, you are too humble to preach, i understand. well, that is not Prabhupadas mood, not to preach. so you better become a bit proud and start to do something. because, i dont know if you have heard about this,
Prabhupada: Yes, yes, you should be proud, you should feel proud: “I am working for Krsna very nicely.” (laughter) We don’t reject anything. Even this pride, yes. “I am greater servant of Krsna. Yes, I am proud.” That pride is nice. Yes?
Bhagavad-gita 2.46-62 — Los Angeles, December 16, 1968
This is a perfect example, Dear Readers, in his comments written by Kali Chela Makhancor disguising himself as good as Srila Prabhupada when he uses Srila Prabhupada’s quote.
This is simply abuse of creating smoke screen which is very very very dangerously misleading.
Giving him the benefit of doubt that he is doing so good for which I / we are happy for them.
Why and what the hell he has got any business to publish his very own Bliss agenda ?
Why these CRETINS – Kali Chelas can not fly their own Kite else where and post their successful blissful agenda elsewhere ?
Why the Web Master has to accept such activities which are not accepted and recognized by the Participants as brought out by the link provided ?
This has to STOP. I sincerely hope that Web Master pay attention to the written messages I have conveyed and do the needful.
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Dear Learned Readers,
Wise People ACCEPT the words in the VANI of the bona fide Spiritual Master our Jagat Guru His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada what He says and writes in the BOOKS Published after the final manuscript during His manifested LILA.
Generally, the Books are published after the final acceptance of the Manuscript by the Author for printing. That is the practical norm.
So, why some body with the sane mind would change the ACCEPTED and PUBLISHED BOOKS by the Author without His written permission especially when He is physically no longer available ?
To make any changes to the Published Books are subject to what is called PERJURY in the eyes of the Court of Law the material is registered at the State Government.
That is a Crime itself. Isn’t it ?
Would any one with a Sane Mind do that ?
You have to be INSANE to do the CHANGES in the Accepted and Published work of the BOOKS with your sweet FREE WILL which is called an ACT of FOOLISH PERSON that which is IGNORED by the WISE People.
Is that NOT a FACT ?
Informatively, I may remind the Readers that HDG. Srila Prabhupada is accepted as the Mahabhagvata world wide by His Followers – Devotees and His BOOKS are also Accepted as the Bhagvata because there is no difference between the Person Bhagavata ( Vapu ) and His Books Bhagavata (VANI ).
To do any changes and promote such changes of the Book Bhagavata in any form, shape and style is totally subject to the OFFENCES to the Mahabhagavata who so ever are accepting Srila Prabhupada as their Spiritual Master with ones own Agenda which will be looked after in the Court of the Yamaraja.
For this, there is NO doubt about that because the Guru, Sahduas and Shastras say so.
So CHEATERS beware of it and do as you please.
Assuming Srila Prabhupada did not know any thing and do nothing to correct the changes made to His BOOKS by His disciples – Editors, that is why the editing and re-editing work is needed to bring the books back to the Original manuscript are all simply creating the smoke screen in the misleading and cheating to the ignorant people by the CHEATERS of all kinds simply to promote ones’ own agenda.
Make no mistake, Dear Readers, Srila Prabhupada is the Mahabhagavata. He knew everything and kept all His followers engaged in the devotional service to propagate the Holy Name of the Lord in every Town and Village on this Globe as predicted by Shri Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu who empowered His Senapati our Jagat Guru His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada to do this task.
Therefore, to say that Srila Prabhupada did not know any thing and do nothing to correct the changes in His Books after printing based on the conversation of Srila Prabhupada with His disciples, it is not only INSANE but a BLASPHEMY also to the Lotus Feet of Srila Prabhupada when such FOOLISH PERSONS (Self Interested Interpreter ) accept Srila Prabhupada as their Spiritual Master.
That is why I wrote this ; ” ” Wise People Ignore The Acts of Foolish Persons.”
Now this insane FOOLISH PERSON replies controversially as follows ;
Makhancora dasa says:
7. July 2018 at 8:16 pm
when there is a need to blaspheme devotees, oh, you are immediately enthusiastic. but when there is need to use the brain and come up with solutions according to Prabhupada´s instructions, then this is the only thing you can say. flapping corpse. so flap, flap… you are a dead corpse, man…
you have no answers, right? you cant say anything. its beyond your capacity to comprehend. you feel like a lost child. i see. so, just be silent and dont make a bigger nonsense out of yourself. you are ridiculous.
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
Under these circumstances, I humbly invite the Readers to pray and beg from Srila Prabhupada for forgiveness to those conditioned Jivas who are doing such BLASPHEMY to the Mahabhagavata to make such an attempt to change the Bookbhagavata purposefully misleading and cheating people for their personal motivated agenda.
OM TAT SAT.
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Hare Krsna Makhancora Prabhu,
we should accept that we all are conditioned souls. We can not do perfect things. Therefore we should accept what we have received and receives from Srila Prabhupada. .And we should be happy and thankful. Sri Krsna knows our hearts and Maya will also encourage our ambitions.
I wrote in my previous comment at another article that for example Dvarakesa Dasa followed Srila Prabhupada instructions and he translated Bhagavad-gita As It Is 1972 edition in 1981. But he also did not understand the situation after Srila Prabhupada’s disappearance. He was a young disciple and he did not know about Srila Prabhupada’s final order. He also wanted to change the things. Very sad times. Unfortunately he accepted his friend Paramadvaiti Maharaj’s advice and they went to Sridhara Maharaj. It was also wrong decision.
Nowadays we can use huge knowledge: books, letters, lectures and so on. But we should only help Srila Prabhupada that HE can preach all ower the world by PURE ISKCON .
This is my humble opinion. Therefore I accept only the original books and Bhagavad-gita As It Is 1972 Macmillan edtion – translated into Hungarian language by Dvarakesa Dasa.
Hare Krsna
Hare Krsna, Marici Prabhu!
please accept my humble obeisances.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada!
thank you Prabhu for your input.
the question here, however, still stands and we can crystalize our understanding of the desire of Srila Prabhupada regarding his books on the example of Easy Journey to Other Planeds.
as it is mentioned in the article, Srila Prabhuapda doesnt point out any specific change or discriepancy like in the case of Bhagavad-gita or Srimad-Bhagavatam. Yet he is dissatisfied with Hayagriva´s editing. He gives no specific instruction on how to fix the book, but he complains about the editing. Now, if we want to re-print the Easy Journey to Other Planets, how is it supposed to be done? We obviously cannot reprint Hayagriva´s edition as Srila Prabhupada complains about it, neither we can print the original Delhi edition as Srila Prabhupada wanted his books in nice english – edited. What to do, Prabhu?
I will appreciate to hear about your realization on this problem.
hope this meets you well
your servant
Makhancora dasa
Dear Makhancora prabu! Consider Marici’s message. I am still in this opinion to be calm and humble. There will always be mistakes, there will never be anything perfect. The 1972 Bhagavad-gita as it is, however, is perfect. If you read this book you can achieve perfection. Maybe you argue? Do you think that I read the original book, can I not understand Krishna? Relax … everyone calms down and do not start here in the name of Prabhupada, claiming to invade the original Bhagavad-gita. Make everyone swear and think about the consequences and opportunities. Just think about what the goal is. This is because of the attack on the 1972 Gita, it does not bring us closer, but it is another conflict. Beginner less learned devotees may get confused. This is not a good way. Why is it good to argue? Prabhupadanuga group is beautiful, but there is an inside couple of people who are stalking. What is this good for?
Hare Krsna, Prabhu!
i do not argue, that if one reads the 1972 Gita, he can become a devotee and understand about Krsna, devotional service, etc. At the same time, there are meanings obscured, omitted or changed by the editor. I simply want to hear what Prabhupada said.
we do not force anyone to read the BLISS Gita and destroy his 1972 Gita, or anything like that. Ipersonally have read a translation of Jayadvaita´s 1983 Gita (czech) before i knew about any “original” or 1972 anything. but it made me chant Hare Krsna, chant 16 rounds, offer my food to Krsna, think of Krsna, give up sinful activities etc. is that ok?
still, i would like to hear about your solution to the “Easy Journey” problem. that you have not yet adressed, i think.
According to the timeline of this conversation (June 1977) Srila Prabhupada has been poisoned, for several months prior, if we understand the concrete evidence presented by Nityananda Prabhu. So Tamal is trying very hard to control by recommending that Jayadvaita and Satsvarupa ”remedy” the situation of changes by Hayagriva, but in hindsight it is clear that they are themselves incompetent!
The Kosha Nostra has already been established and the plot is already underway. Nobody is suggesting that Hayagriva was perfect, as he was engaging in homosex and was leaving the shelter of Srila Prabhupada but overall Srila Prabhupada was pleased with his work and he was given the mandate from Srila Prabhupada to do this. The Acharya is wary of praising the disciple and chastises out of love only.
Srila Prabhupada’s chastisement of Hayagriva should be seen in that context as Prabhupada was saddened when Hayagriva left his shelter. It is nothing short of a miracle that we have these books by Srila Prabhupada, which have his approval, so why argue over syntax and semantics? This just causes unnecessary problems (as if there are not enough problems already!)
Sudarsana Das Vanacari : According to the timeline of this conversation (June 1977) Srila Prabhupada has been poisoned, for several months prior, if we understand the concrete evidence presented by Nityananda Prabhu. So Tamal is trying very hard to control by recommending that Jayadvaita and Satsvarupa ”remedy” the situation of changes by Hayagriva, but in hindsight it is clear that they are themselves incompetent!
The Kosha Nostra has already been established and the plot is already underway. Nobody is suggesting that Hayagriva was perfect, as he was engaging in homosex and was leaving the shelter of Srila Prabhupada but overall Srila Prabhupada was pleased with his work and he was given the mandate from Srila Prabhupada to do this. The Acharya is wary of praising the disciple and chastises out of love only.
Mahesh: Jayadvaita, Tamal Krsna(TKG), Satsvarupa these were part of the gang that had PERSONAL AMBITION and stood TO GAIN in the TAKE-OVER(USURP) of Srila Prabhupada’s mission FROM Srila Prabhupada.
Jayadvaita took-over BBT, BTG. TKG was BIG MANIPULATIVE CONTROLLER and took-up the bogus guru position,DISCIPLES,MONEY. Satsvarupa was their book writer to MANIPULATE and DUPE the devotees into thinking Srila Prabhupada made them diksa gurus hence his bogus Lilamrta rendition. They ALL went for POWER,POSITIONS,MONEY,DISCIPLES,PROPERTIES:
Note: The Krsna consciousness movement is not meant for fulfilling one’s personal ambition:
Our life is very short. The Krsna consciousness movement is not meant for fulfilling one’s personal ambition, but it is a serious movement for the whole world.
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/letters/los_angeles/july/31/1970/satsvarupa
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Note:The poison is personal ambition:
Regarding Brahmananda, he is actually surrendered soul, but Maya is so strong that on account of association he has even fallen down. So these two things are always side by side—Maya and Krsna—Krsna is service and Maya is sense gratification, so every moment we are prone to be subjugated by either of them. Our duty is therefore to be very, very careful. The poison is personal ambition.
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/letters/bombay/november/01/1970/satyabhama
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Note: I wanted you all my experienced disciples should manage the whole institution very cleverly without any personal ambition like ordinary materialistic men:
I wanted you all my experienced disciples should manage the whole institution very cleverly without any personal ambition like ordinary materialistic men. The Gaudiya Math institution has become smashed, at least stopped its program of preaching work on account of personal ambitions.
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/letters/mayapur/october/08/1974/karandhara
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Note: Hayagriva was a VERY GOOD TYPIST.
Prabhupāda: So you show by example. Bring these brahmacārīs. Teach them, and gradually… Just like our organization not all of a sudden has become so big. I was… For more than one year I was simply loitering on the street of New York like a vagabond. Who was hearing me? Still, I am going once in a month to the ship company that “When your next ship is coming to go to India?” So the manager: “Swamiji, you are coming. When you are going away?” I said, “Yes, I have no business practically here. But still, I want to stay and see if things can be pushed.” Therefore I am writing. Otherwise I am useless. I am simply loitering and seeing the Fifth Avenue and the… And within the subway station, after taking my lunch I used to go by bus here and there, in the subway, anywhere go, it stops. No shelter. I was cooking, myself, in a friend’s house. So he took it as a free cook he has got. And two men, of course, we… Sometimes some guest would… And I would be very glad. And ten, twenty, I’ll feed them. And they would like very much ḍāl, cāpāṭi, and one vegetable. First-class… Everyone would like. That was going on, ḍāl, cāpāṭi, and one vegetable. I’ll take pleasure. Sometimes somebody would come to assist me. He wanted to eat immediately. And “No, that you cannot. After I have finished, when it is offered to Kṛṣṇa, then I’ll give you sumptuous prasādam, not before.” So there was no… And little rice. Ḍāl, cāpāṭi, rice, vegetable, bas. Oh, it was so nice. Everyone would praise. The same thing, when I took my own apartment I did the same thing, distributed prasādam. Then, gradually, they came forward to assist me. First came Kīrtanānanda. He is the first cook. Then Acyutānanda. Brahmānanda was washing dish. He could not help the cooking.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was the dishwasher.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He liked that. (laughter) He liked that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What was Gargamuni doing?
Prabhupāda: Gargamuni did not join in the beginning. He was watching his brother. He was, rather, little critical. Gargamuni came first, er, yeah…
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Brahmānanda.
Prabhupāda: Brahmānanda. Then our Satsvarūpa, then Jadurāṇī. In this way, gradually increased. And Kīrtanānanda was very expert in learning. He learned how to make puri, kacuri, samosā, sweet ball. We were having very nice feast every Sunday. On Saturday night we would prepare so many things and stocked it. And Sunday, distributing… People would take: “Oh, so…” At least in that time seventy, eighty guests were coming. And they were very happy.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They all get fed sumptuously?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, food.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where…? Would you eat with them?
Prabhupāda: No. I was eating also, not necessarily with them. I was seeing that they are…
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You were in the room, though, while they were…
Prabhupāda: Yes. Acyutānanda was also doing very nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cooking.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Acyutānanda, Satsvarūpa, Kīrtanānanda, these three persons would, on my direction, “Do like this. Do like this…”
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They were cooking.
Prabhupāda: Hm. And stocked at night.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And Brahmānanda was eating. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: In the very beginning, when I was simply alone, Rāyarāma, he was there. He was helping me, cooking, washing dishes, carrying my luggage, everything. Very good boy.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about Hayagrīva?
Prabhupāda: Hayagrīva was eating also. (laughter) And he was typing. He’s a VERY GOOD TYPIST. He’ll type very swiftly and correctly. Then I started this Back to Godhead, Hayagrīva and Rāyarāma, editors. And I purchased two machines. What is that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mimeograph machine.
Prabhupāda: There was advertisement. So I went to Long Island. That two machines… I asked, “What is the price?” “$150 each.” Then he wanted to take away the machines. Machine was all right. And then I told him that “I have got $150 only. If you want to give us, give those two machines.” So “All right, you take these all.” (laughter) So I gave him $150, whatever I had, and I took the machine. In that machine was printed Back to Godhead. So five hundred copies… How many copies you were selling?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, by the time we were selling, you were printing about three thousand, and we were selling twenty-five hundred.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Then I asked Brahmānanda that “Why not print it nicely?” So he said that “Unless we print twenty thousand, nobody will take this work.” And “All right, order twenty thousand.” Now, from twenty thousand or five hundred, what is the quantity now we are printing?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not less than five hundred thousand a month.
Bhakti-caru: Two million.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes more.
Bhakti-caru: Mahārāja, in all languages it’s two million.
Prabhupāda: And so beautiful printing, picture and… The beginning was three hundred, and Gargamuni, he took away somebody’s hand cart.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He what?
Prabhupāda: It was on the street.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He took a hand cart.
Prabhupāda: And he was putting the magazines on the hand cart, selling near cinema and other crowded places. That is very good… So it was a hard struggle in the beginning.
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/conversations/1977/jul/with_mr_myer/vrndavana/july/02/1977
Yes! absolutely Mahesh Raja Prabhu, (as you have explained and the ‘links’ you have included also).
The poison is ‘PERSONAL AMBITION!’. This is mentioned over and over again by Srila Prabhupada and this is what destroys EVERYTHING. Tamal Krishna, the devious actor, the prime example, a skillful Crypto Jew trying constantly to manipulate and control events and actions, with his fellow Crypto Jew, demonic associates. His scripted phrases, erudition and suggestions to bewilder all but the most sincere, and at the same time poisoning Srila Prabhupada and ISKCON with his venomous desire for power. The “pucka” Germanic Ashkenazi Jew profile with the ‘squeaky clean’ (I’m so much qualified), self opinionated, cool charismatic demeanor, all designed to deceive. But he couldn’t keep a lid on this for long! and regularly, all of a sudden he would explode into a rage that was unexpected and volatile, screaming at the top of his lungs at some poor unfortunate.
The pretenders will eventually have to face reality, no matter how many hundreds, thousands or millions of people they try to cheat. This is the Hell that they are trying to deny, every day of their sad miserable deluded lives.
It is something that has been played out
The Rascal Editors Conversation: Context Defines the Order
http://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2018/07/the-rascal-editors-conversation-context.html
[PADA: Yes, this is a good analysis of the situation. Thanks prabhu. Its clear that the Purujit / Makhanchora / BLISS people cannot understand the subtle processes in this conversation. Its also clear they cannot even understand other very self-evident and self-obvious facts, for example that they should not make temple item thief and deity kidnapper Hansadutta their “ritvik” authority. Its also clear they have no license to produce anything anyway, its all bluff. They simply do not pay attention to many of the facts of reality.
Its good that all this discussion has been raised however, since there will be efforts to make new editions later on and we need to establish what was really the process authorized by the acharya, and what was not. ys pd]
I just want to say that it is not productive in the above link by Puranjana Das to keep on castigating Hansadutta Das, by such name calling for past mistakes, over and over and over again. Hansadutta Prabhu has already made his apologies known (with regards the bogus guru saga) and has tried to save the situation with regards to Srila Prabhupada’s original books. We should ‘forgive but not forget’.
Puranjana Das is still ”flying the flag” for the Mad Bandit even though ‘Mad B’ does not give a fig for Srila Prabhupada’s books or instructions and is the BIGGEST THIEF AND HYPOCRITE in the devotee community. (follow the money!) This Hindu Goonda is a grubby materialist and runs a corporate inspired, slaughter-house “education targetted”, Ford Foundation controlled, GMO bhoga poison, US Foreign Policy program, in syncronization with a Hindu fascist political ideal.
These things have to be said, as it is necessary to see the picture as it exists. Whether or not it changes for the better is another thing as this is all up to the Supreme Lord, but we can only become free from the entanglement by understanding the dynamic with clarity of vision.
Apologies made by Hansadutta seems to make and feel COMFORTABLE not only to himself but to others also simply to get accepted amongst Srila Prabhupada followers in order to establish his own creditability as it seems because he is in denial so far that Srila Prabhupada was given poison.
That is the main flaw in him at present he carries.
Correct me if my inference is incorrect, Sudarsana Prabhu.
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Your analysis is correct Amar Puri Prabhu. The denial of solid evidence gathered by Nityananda Prabhu, on the poison issue, makes one (even of reasonable intelligence) very wary, and suspicious of the motives/future aspirations of Hansadutta Das. One must be very cautious of those who in the past have gained much power and prestige, especially through devious, dishonest means, especially when they are in denial of the facts, the poisoning issue being most important. One should move very carefully to weigh everything by deeds and not just words, always keeping Srila Prabhupada’s vani at the centre for fear of being cheated again (such as in the case of the Mad Bandit).
Hansadutta Das has made some effort to correct his past misdeeds (especially with regards to Srila Prabhupada’s original books), how ‘genuine’ this turnaround is, remains to be seen but the denial of the ‘poisoning evidence’ does seem to be a ‘stumbling block’ of mammoth proportions (of that, there is no doubt). I can tell you truthfully that I am certainly not ready to ‘disregard’ these questionable anomalies with regards Hansadutta Das, or throw ‘my money down on the table’ in support! but only to ‘PROCEED WITH CAUTION!’ (He is ‘out of jail’ but still ‘on probation’ as far as I am concerned, and there are certainly ‘mixed signals’, which are concerning). We should encourage reform (as we all need reforming!) and allow a bit of rope, in my humble opinion so as to not hinder the living entity to once again resume his/her service to Srila Prabhupada…….WITHOUT BECOMING NAIVE, AS MAYA IS VERY STRONG AND SELF AMBITION THE EVER PRESENT POISON!
I am just making the point that Puranjana Das’s comments, calling Hansadutta Das a ‘thief’ do not seem very convincing, whilst at the same time he is still supporting the Mad Bandit, who in my opinion is the BIGGEST THIEF (an hypocrite) of monumental proportions. Puranjana Das does admit to being misled by others however (Purujit Das being one of them) so perhaps ‘the coin will drop’ as far as the Mad Bandit is concerned………who knows?
So yes, Prabhu your observations are well founded. We should be not be subject to ‘amnesia’ lest we ‘get fooled again’. This is why we should strive to become at least, Madhyama Adhikari (of which I am a long way off). At Uttama Adhikari stage, Maha Maya has no more influence and becomes ones friend, so in essence when we are fooled or misled by others this partly due to our own imperfections and material consciousness. Srila Prabhupada could not be defeated by anyone and was nobody’s fool as ‘purity of heart gives clarity of vision’ this is what we are constantly striving for.
Thank you for your valuable input and contribution.
To my understanding, perhaps, Puranjana Das’s comments, calling Hansadutta
Das a thief is based on his position of Trustee of the BBT for his Life which he lost it or gave away for reasons of his being personally motivated for profit which led him to lose that such permanent position of prestige for Life.
One has to be obnoxiously GREEDY to lose such an important position to those Thieves of the present Iskcon Gunda Leaders.
That is what Puranjana’s comments calling Hansadutta das a thief refers to it. That is my only a inference. May be, I am wrong which I stand to be corrected. by more advanced learned devotees who know better in this regard.
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
The thing is Prabhu that what is required is ‘Guru, Sadhu And Sastra’. These 3 things are necessary for the understanding of spiritual knowledge. Purujit Das and Co are disregarding the ‘Sadhu’ part of the process! This is very dangerous mentality as we have all recently witnessed and as a result the ‘Sadhu’ aspect has come together and defeated Purujit Das’s modus operandi. He and his supporters will disregard this AT THEIR OWN PERIL!
Puranjana Das is only interested in monologue and not dialogue with others, so his comments are a ‘one way street’. They are a mixture of factual points and delusional fantasy, (especially in the case of the Mad Bandit, who’s bogus programs have been clearly exposed, over many years!). So this is the crux of the matter …..that one cannot eliminate the ‘Sadhu” element of the equation as we are all vunerable to the forces of Maya, and can easily ‘run off the rails’ without the devotees stepping in and correcting us with the mercy of Srila Prabhupada’s Vani at the centre.
This is the REAL mercy of the Vaisnavas, because we have all been in the situation of falsely believing that something is true! but then Lord Krishna pulls the rug out from underneath us just to teach us a lesson! We just have to be humble enough to realize that we are all fallible and can make such mistakes! And who among us doesn’t make mistakes? This is an ongoing process for all of us…..but once we think that we are infallible, that is when we are finished!
i suppose you are the sadhu to be consulted. and amar puri. two sadhus at least must be there.
“Its good that all this discussion has been raised however, since there will be efforts to make new editions later on…” JUST SEE, SOMEONE WANTS TO MAKE NEW EDITIONS! ISNT THIS FUN???
Only one as delusional and venomous as yourself, can never admit defeat, a fact which is blatantly obvious to all who have contributed to this discussion. So as far as I am concerned there is no more to discuss. Any further dialogue would only make you more venomous, and more unfortunate than you are already are, so this is where I stop.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
very good
Hare Krsna, Makhancora Prabhu,
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Please accept my humble obeisances.
Thanks for kind question. I understand the problem. But we can see things from different points of view too.
For example my point of view is the following:
ISKCON movement is deviated, and bogus gurus preach „all over the world”. We all know the temples are not so important than the books. Srila Prabhupada’s books. We are living in age of intentionally devastating of book changing. The circumstances are chaotic. For example devotees take initiation by a Ritvik Representative who uses bogus guru’s words and unathorised translations on his public website and ritvik devotees do not see how this problem is serious. This is a wrong process.
So in my humble opinion in this situation we should consider the circumstances and insist on authorized editions by Srila Prabhupada. We should change nothing. No grammatical change or similar. We have to try to use our intelligence always.
I can not tell you any more.
Hare Krsna
Dear Learned Readers,
Please read this CRETIN Makhancor writing ; “Its good that all this discussion has been raised however, since there will be efforts to make new editions later on…” JUST SEE, SOMEONE WANTS TO MAKE NEW EDITIONS! ISNT THIS FUN???
That some one is Purujit, another cretin whom Makhancora follows and asks simply out of his PRIDE when he says ; ISNT THIS FUN ???
PURUJIT’s team headed by Makhancora is editing and reediting Srila Prabhupada’s BOOKS just for FUN.
How credible it is ? How shameless this discussion can go on ?
Is it worth discussing any further ?
I humbly do not think that we should.
OM TAT SAT.
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
so, everyone is writing big big things here, that is very nice, but this one simple question you are not able to answer, how to reprint the Easy Journey to Other Planets. that means you have no position. you may speak and attack and blaspheme as much as you like, this is simply your defeat, that´s all. you have no idea.
Makhancor, your writing is simply OUT OF PRIDE when you say ; ” ISNT THIS FUN ???
And I answered you as follows ;
” PURUJIT’s team headed by Makhancora is editing and reediting Srila Prabhupada’s BOOKS just for FUN.
How credible it is ? How shameless this discussion can go on ?
Is it worth discussing any further ? ”
In reply to the above, you asked again OUT OF PRIDE ;
” how to reprint the Easy Journey to Other Planets. that means you have no position. ”
The answer I have given it elsewhere you did not see it because of your PRIDE and High Ambition that has perfectly blinded you under the direction of Purujit. So Blind leads to another BLIND. This is the perfect example. Isn’t it ?
So how one can have a meaningful discussion with some one like you and Purujit who are anointed with personal High Ambition of as good as the Author of the Books you are undertaking for your personal profit simply to satisfy your whims all in the name of Editing and re-editing disguising as the followers of Srila Prabhupada.
Please go ahead and write your own BOOKS from the scratch and you may have the blessing from all of us. This is the best answer of your question.
Hope you read this answer and refrain writing further here in this regard.
Go elsewhere where you are accepted by other blind like your minded persons who do not know at all Purujit and his team including you because all of us here know you and Purujit very well. So please do not waste your time writing here any more. That is my advice to both Purujit and you.
Hope it meets you satisfactory .
OM TAT SAT.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
B.L.I.S.S. announces preaching centre in Mexico City …….. ( Identifying Item No. 1 )
By: Makhancora dasa
The Bhaktivedanta Lives in Sound Society proudly announces affiliation of a preaching centre in Mexico City. The program there is conducted by Bhakta Carlos Prabhu and runs according to the instructions of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhuapda. Mangala-aratik, Guru-puja, Srimad-Bhagavatam class, Harinam, book distribution, evening program and Sunday Love Feasts are being held in this modest, but dedicated place. Last, but not the least, on the 13th of July, 2018, on the day of Gundica-marjanam, Bhakta Carlos Prabhu will receive his initiation as a recognized disciple of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, following the rules and regulations as ordained by Srila Prabhupada – chanting at least 16 rounds of Maha-mantra daily and refraining from he 4 sinful activities. The initiation ceremony will be performed by Makhancora dasa. All the Vaisnavas are welcomed to join this most auspicious event, either physically or on-line, but most importantly in their hearts and we beg all devotees and followers of Srila Prabhupada to bless this attempt to spread the Glories of the Holy Name of Lord Krsna in Latin America and beyond!
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada! Hare Krsna!
https://www.facebook.com/events/338958896636676/?active_tab=about
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Makhancora dasa says: …….. ( Identifying Item No. 2 )
14. July 2018 at 10:41 pm
yes, according to sudarsana prabhu here, you cannot consult with Prabhupada… and if you do, you are a psycho. very sublime siddhanta indeed, worth a °Prabhupadanuga° bravo!
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Makhancora dasa says: ……….. ( Identifying Item No. 3 )
14. July 2018 at 11:11 pm
In the absolute world there is no distinction as me, or he, and I. Krishna and His representative is the same. Just like Krishna can be present simultaneously in millions of places. Similarly, the Spiritual Master also can be present wherever the disciple wants. A Spiritual Master is the principle, not the body. Just like a television can be seen in thousands of places by the principle of relay monitoring.
Letter to: Malati — Allston, Mass 28 May, 1968
NOTE ; These Three Items above mentioned are posted on this web site.
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Dear Learned Readers,
We read from the Identified Item No. 1 that
” The initiation ceremony will be performed by Makhancora dasa.” on July 13, 2018 in Mexico City.
WONDERFUL LIE as it seems.
Here is why it is suspicious.
From Item No. 2, we can notice that the date is 14 July, 2018 at the time of posting which reads 10.41 pm local time of the City and the Country where and when it was posted.
And the same goes for Item No. 3, we read the date is 14 July, 2018 at 11.11 pm local posted time.
Makhancor, giving him the benefit of doubt that he did conduct the initiation ceremony in Mexico city on 13 July, and he spent the whole glorious day there with his new initiate.
On Saturday 14 July, 2018 Mexico city time at present is 7.40 pm whereas Mexico city time when Makhancor posted the Item No. 2 and 3 on this web site was 5.11 pm, plus or minus couple of minutes allowance of difference perhaps, the whole day Makhancor was meditating his reply to post in his defence on this web site instead of discussing with the new Initiates the principles of advancement in cultivating the Krsna consciousness. How wonderful it is ?
Is it NOT great ? What it tells the Readers when we analyze the situation Makhancor is facing ?
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Related discussion can be found here:
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=48688
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=48713
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=48736
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=48744
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=48851
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