“Qualified brāhmaṇas” drink beer and “qualified brāhmaṇīs” wear bikini.
Who or what is a Guru?
by Advaita dās
Q: Can a non-Hindu become a Guru in this life?
A: Non-Indian Vaiṣṇava Gurus are falling down from Vedic and Vaiṣṇava principles much more often than their Indian counterparts do. The Vaiṣṇava scriptures show us why. Proponents of casteless Gurus quote this verse from Caitanya Caritāmṛta (Madhya 8,128):
kibā vipra kibā nyāsī śūdra kene noy;
yei kṛṣṇa tattva vettā – sei guru hoy
“Whether someone is a brāhmaṇa, a sannyāsī or even a śūdra – whoever knows the truth about Kṛṣṇa is a Guru.”
However, the context in which this verse was spoken is as follows: Although Himself a brāhmaṇa and a sannyāsī, Caitanya Mahāprabhu considered the śūdra and gṛhastha Rāmānanda Rāya to be His śikṣā guru, since He was on the receiving end of all the enlightenment passed on by Rāmānanda Rāya. In the preceding verses Caitanya Mahāprabhu said about His personal āśrama-status:
māyāvādī āmi ta’ sannyāsī | bhakti-tattva nāhi jāni, māyāvāde bhāsi
sārvabhauma-saṅge mora mana nirmala ha-ila | ‘kṛṣṇa-bhakti-tattva kaha,’ tāṅhāre puchila
teṅho kahe–āmi nāhi jāni kṛṣṇa-kathā | sabe rāmānanda jāne, teṅho nāhi ethā
tomāra ṭhāñi āilāṅa tomāra mahimā śuniyā | tumi more stuti kara ‘sannyāsī’ jāniyā
“I am a māyāvādī sannyāsī, hence I do not know about bhakti. I was purified in Sārvabhauma’s company, so I asked him: ‘Tell Me the truth about devotion to Kṛṣṇa.” He (Sārvabhauma, although he was a brāhmaṇa) said: “I do not know about Kṛṣṇa. Rāmānanda knows all, but he is not here.” So I have come here after hearing of your greatness, but you praise Me because I am a sannyāsī.”
(Caitanya Caritāmṛta Madhya 8.124-127)
And then Mahāprabhu speaks the famous verse, in this context – kibā vipra kibā nyāsi śūdra kene noy; yei kṛṣṇa tattva vettā sei guru hoy – Rāmānanda Rāya never gave dīkṣā to Mahāprabhu. The context of this verse is a personal one, and there is no question here of dīkṣā. The word guru in this verse means śikṣā guru. The words yei kṛṣṇa tattva vettā (“Whoever knows the truth about Kṛṣṇa”) clearly show that this verse refers to the qualification of a śikṣā guru. After the famous kibā vipra-verse Mahāprabhu continues:
sannyāsī boliyā more nā koro vañcana;
kṛṣṇa rādhā tattva kohi’ pūrṇa koro man
“Don’t deprive Me because I am a sannyāsī; fulfil My desire my speaking of Kṛṣṇa and Rādhā.”
Indeed, throughout the lengthy conversation between Rāmānanda Rāya and Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu there is no mentioning of dīkṣā anywhere!
Many westerners, who are not acquainted with Vedic culture, think that this idea of ‘brāhmaṇa by quality alone’ has always been the Vedic norm, but, in his comment on Caitanya Caritāmṛta Madhya 8.128, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami himself confirms that it was introduced by Bhaktisiddhānta Saraswati:
“Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura therefore introduced the sacred thread ceremony for all Vaiṣṇavas according to the rules and regulations.”
In the Haribhakti Vilāsa (chapter 1), Śrīla Sanātana Gosvāmī and Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī state that the first choice of a qualified Guru should be a born brāhmaṇa — vipraṁ pradhvasta kāma (1.29) avadātānvayaḥ śuddhaḥ svocitācāra tatparaḥ (1.32) “He must be from a spotless dynasty and dedicated to proper conduct.” brāhmaṇaḥ sarvakālajña (1.36). varṇottame’tha ca gurau (1.37) These traits are not secondary requirements of a Guru. They are listed under the heading viśeṣataḥ śrī guror lakṣaṇa – ‘Special characteristics of Śrī Guru’. Śrīla Sanātana Gosvāmī’s commentary on Haribhakti Vilāsa 1.32 –
avadātaḥ śuddhaḥ pātityādi doṣa rahito’nvayo
vaṁśo yasya sad vaṁśa jāta ityartha.
śuddhaḥ svayam api pātityādi doṣa rahitaḥ
“The word avadāta means that his family is free from the faults of being fallen. That means he comes from a good family. The word śuddhaḥ means that he himself is also not fallen.”
Monier Williams’ Sanskrit dictionary translates patita as: “fallen, dropped, descended, alighted, fallen upon or from, fallen (morally), wicked, degraded, out- caste…”
In the Brahma Vaivarta Purāṇa (Kṛṣṇa Janma Khaṇḍa 83.42) it is also said:
jāti hīnād guror mantraḥ gṛhnīyān na kadācana
“Never take mantra from a casteless Guru.”
If a qualified brāhmaṇa cannot be found, a qualified kṣatriya must be sought, and so on downwards:
tad abhāvād dvija śreṣṭha śāntātmā bhagavanmayaḥ
bhāvitātmā ca sarvajñaḥ śāstrajñaḥ sat kriyāparaḥ
siddhi traya samāyukta ācāryatve’bhiṣecitaḥ.
kṣatra viṭ śūdra jātīnāṁ kṣatriyo’nugrahekṣamaḥ
kṣatriyasyāpi ca guror abhāvād īdṛśo yadi
vaiśyaḥ syāt tena kāryaśca dvaye nityam anugrahaḥ
sajātīyena śūdrena tādṛśena mahāmate
anugrahābhiṣekau ca kāryau śūdrasya sarvadā
“In the absence of a qualified brāhmaṇa Guru, one can take a kṣatriya Guru, who is filled with God consciousness, peaceful, knows all about the dīkṣā ritual, knows scripture, is conversant with all rites, has the three siddhis (perfection in practise of mantra, worship of the Guru and the devatās, attained through practises like puraścaraṇa). Such a kṣatriya-Guru can give dīkṣā to his fellow kṣatriyas as well as to vaiśyas and śūdras. Similarly śūdras can always give dīkṣā to their fellow śūdras.” (Haribhakti Vilāsa 1.47)
Furthermore, these verses of Haribhakti Vilāsa say that one should not give pratiloma dīkṣā, viz. a low caste Guru giving dīkṣā to a high caste disciple — prātilomyaṁ na dīkṣayet (1.52). Śrīla Narottama Dās Ṭhākura was an exceptional case – he gave dīkṣā to high caste persons, but at the end he rose from the dead and his body melted like milk into the Gaṅgā (dugdha samādhi). This is not something that every non-brāhmaṇa that gives dīkṣā to brāhmaṇas can imitate.
There has never been a prohibition by the Vaiṣṇava Ācāryas or the scriptures to calling householder-ācāryas ‘Gosvāmī’.
On the contrary, Śrī Narottama Ṭhākura Mahāśaya sang: doyā koro sītāpati, advaita gosāi, addressing the householder-Guru, the husband of Sītā, Advaita Prabhu as gosāi. Advaita is also repeatedly called gosvāmī in Kavi Karṇapūra’s ‘Caitanya Candrodaya Nāṭakam’, and in Gaura Gaṇoddeśa Dīpikā (76) he writes: sa evādvaita gosvāmī caitanyābhinna vigrahaḥ “He, Advaita Gosvāmī, is non-different from Lord Caitanya.” To see the ‘caste-‘ Gosvāmīs as different from the Lords – Nityānanda and Advaita – that they directly descend from in family line is an offence to Nityānanda and Advaita, for the Vedas teach us ātmā vai jāyate putraḥ — “So father, so son”, or: “The child is the image of the father.” (CC. Madhya 12.56) Lord Balarāma said in Śrīmad Bhāgavata (10.78.36): ātma vai putra utpanna iti vedānuśāsanam; tasmād asya bhaved vaktā “O worshipable sages, the Vedas declare that one’s own self is reborn as the son, therefore let Romaharṣaṇa’s son recite the Purāṇas to you!” pituḥ putro yena jāta sa eva saḥ (Ś.B. 9.20.21): “The son belongs to the father. Indeed, the son is the father.”
Staying with family-succession, it is not true that one can/should not be initiated by one’s parents: Hemalatā Ṭhākurāṇī, guru of Yadunandana Ṭhākura, took initiation from her father Śrīnivāsācārya, Kṛṣṇa Miśra took initiation from his mother Sītā-devī and Vīrabhadra Prabhu took intiation from his co-mother Jāhnavā-devī. Vīrabhadra was a son of Nityānanda Prabhu, but according to ‘Advaita Prakāśa’ he went to Advaita Prabhu for dīkṣā. Advaita Prabhu, however, sent him back to his own family to take dīkṣā there, which confirms that it was the wish of Nityānanda and Advaita Prabhu that these family-guru paramparās would be created.
Sanātan Gosvāmī gave dīkṣā to his brother Rūpa Gosvāmī and Rupa Gosvāmī gave dīkṣā to his nephew Jīva Gosvāmī.
Prabodhānanda gave dīkṣā to his nephew Gopāl bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī.
Vīrabhadra gave dīkṣā to his father-in-law and his three sons.
Śrīnivāsācārya gave dīkṣā to his two wives, three sons and three daughters.
Kṛṣṇacaran Cakravartī gave dīkṣā to Rādhāraman Cakravartī (Viśvanātha Cakravartī’s Guru)
Gati Govinda, Śrīnivāsācārya’s son, gave dīkṣā to his son who gave dīkṣā to his son.
Kavi Karṇapura was already told to chant by Mahāprabhu, after which he took dīkṣā from Śrīnātha Cakravartī, the kula-guru of his father and grandfather.
Baladeva Vidyābhūṣaṇa took dīkṣā from kula-guru Rādhā-Dāmodar Gosvāmī.
Family-Gurus (‘caste Gosvamīs’) are sometimes rejected by pointing at Śrī Jīva Gosvāmī’s Bhakti Sandarbha (210) tad etat paramārtha gurvāśrayo vyavahārika gurvādi parityāgenāpi kartavyam “One should give up a mundane Guru and take a spiritual Guru”, but this ‘mundane Guru’ refers to a marriage-priest, village elder or parent, not to a family-Guru, for in Haribhakti Vilāsa (4.363) the Brahma Vaivarta Purāṇa is quoted:
upadeṣṭāram āmnāyāgataṁ pariharanti ye
tān mṛtān api kravyādāḥ kṛtaghnān nopabhuñjate
“Even the vultures will not eat the dead corpse of the ungrateful one who abandons the āmnāyāgataṁ guru.”
In his commentary to this verse Śrīla Sanātana Gosvāmī writes: āmnāyāgataṁ kula kramāyātaṁ— This āmnāyāgata guru means a Guru who has come in a family succession.” Just before this, in his dik darśiṇī ṭīkā of verse 361, Sanātan Goswāmī quotes how many other Gurus exist other than the spiritual master –
prasaṅgād anyeṣām api gurūṇāṁ saṅgrahārtham.
te coktāḥ kaurme— upādhyāyaḥ pitā jyeṣṭha-bhrātā caiva mahīpatiḥ.
mātulaḥ śvaśuraḥ sūto mātāmaha-pitāmahau.
varṇa- jyeṣṭhaḥ pitṛvyaś ca sarve te guravaḥ smṛtāḥ.
“…others are also named Guru, as it is said in the Kūrma Purāṇa – the Veda- teacher, father, elder brother, king, mother and family, in-laws, parents’ parents, upper caste people and other elders.”
Śrī Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī was initiated by the family-Guru Yadunandana Ācārya, but he did not leave him to take dīkṣā from, for example, Śrī Rūpa Gosvāmī. On the contrary, in Mukta Caritra (4) he acknowledged that he had gotten everything from his family-Guru Yadunandana Ācārya –
nāma śreṣṭhaṁ manum api śacī-putram atra svarūpaṁ
rūpaṁ tasyāgrajam uru purīṁ māthurīṁ goṣṭha-bāṭīm
rādhākuṇḍaṁ girivaram aho rādhikā mādhavāśāṁ
prāpto yasya prathita kṛpayā śrī guruṁ taṁ nato’smi
“I bow down to my blessed Śrī Guru (Yadunandana Ācārya), by whose grace I have received the greatest name in existence, the holy name of Kṛṣṇa, the 18-syllable Gopāla-mantra, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, the son of Mother Śacī, Svarūpa Dāmodara, Rūpa Gosvāmī, his elder brother Sanātana Gosvāmī, the great city of Mathurā, the pastures of Vraja, Rādhākuṇḍa, the best of mountains Govardhana, and the hope of attaining Rādhikā and Mādhava…..”
With ‘Śrī Guru’ he could not have meant anyone else but Yadunandanācārya, for he lists all his other possible ‘Gurus’ like Mahāprabhu, Svarūpa Dāmodara and Rūpa Gosvāmī as his great gifts.
Those who claim that dīkṣā-mantras received from a family-Guru are ‘dead mantras in a body-succession’ should remember that –
Jagannāth dās Bābājī, Madhusūdan dās Bābājī of Sūryakuṇḍa, Manohar dās Bābājī of Govinda-kuṇḍa, Jaya Kṛṣṇa dās Bābājī of Kāmyavan and Vamśī dās Bābājī of Navadvīpa all took dīkṣā from kula-gurus without giving them up for ‘mahā-bhāgavatas’ and became siddha. How is their mantra ‘dead’ then?
One must take shelter of one of these four sampradāyas in order to understand the most confidential religious system. In the Padma Purāṇa it is said, sampradāya-vihīnā ye mantrās te niṣphalā matāḥ: if one does not follow the four recognized disciplic successions, his mantra or initiation is USELESS. In the present day there are many apasampradāyas, or sampradāyas which are not bona fide, which have no link to authorities like Lord Brahmā, Lord Śiva, the Kumāras or Lakṣmī. People are misguided by such sampradāyas. The śāstras say that being initiated in such a sampradāya is a useless waste of time, for it will never enable one to understand the real religious principles.
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/sb/6/3/20-21
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NoD 8 Offenses to Be Avoided
The offenses against the chanting of the holy name are as follows: (3) To disobey the orders of the spiritual master.
Madhya 24.330 The Sixty-One Explanations of the Atmarama Verse
MAHA-BHAGAVATA-srestho
brahmano vai gurur nrnam
sarvesam eva lokanam
asau pujyo yatha harih
maha-kula-prasuto ‘pi
sarva-yajnesu DIKSITAH
sahasra-sakhadhyayi ca
na guruh syad avaisnavah
((The guru MUST be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service. There are three classes of devotees, and the guru MUST be accepted from the topmost class. The first-class devotee is the spiritual master for all kinds of people. ….When one has attained the topmost position of MAHA-BHAGAVATA, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshiped exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. ONLY SUCH A PERSON IS ELIGIBLE TO OCCUPY THE POST OF A GURU.))
Note The word DIKSITAH refers to Diksa and ONLY Maha Bhagavata is the one mentioned WHO give this BY DEFINITION.
75-08-04. Letter: Madhudvisa:
The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I AM IN THE INITIATOR GURU, and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This I want.
“I AM THE SPIRITUAL MASTER OF THIS INSTITUTION, AND ALL THE MEMBERS OF THE SOCIETY, THEY’RE SUPPOSED TO BE MY DISCIPLES. They follow the rules and regulations which I ask them to follow, AND THEY ARE INITIATED BY ME SPIRITUALLY.”(Srila Prabhupada Radio Interview, 12/3/1968)
“Guru-mukha-padma-vakya, cittete koriya aikya, ara na koriho mane asa. Don’t think of any nonsense. Simply execute what your guru has said. That is success.”
(28th January, 1977, Room Conversation)
Further readings:
http://www.iskcon-truth.com/official-documents.html
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Srila Prabhupada IS Diksa Guru
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=43094#more-43094
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Only Maha-Bhagavata is Diksa Guru
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=41422#more-41422
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=46518#comment-45721
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Srila Prabhupada THE ONLY CURRENT ETERNAL DIKSA GURU for ISKCON for AS LONG AS ISKCON EXISTS – NO COMPROMISE!
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=44113#more-44113
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Srila Prabhupada is His Divine Grace
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=45049#more-45049
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Physically Present Diksa Guru
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=42978#comment-31641
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=42978#comment-31834
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=46709#comment-47377
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WHEN I order
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=46581
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/03-08/editorials2603.htm
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=42978#comment-31480
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Become Guru by Order, That’s All
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/04-10/editorials5990.htm
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What We Have Heard from the Spiritual Master, That is Living
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/08-10/editorials6409.htm
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Srila Prabhupada’s Disciple
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=43453
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=46589#more-46589
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-07/editorials2265.htm
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Srila Prabhupada: I am in the initiator guru
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=12808#more-12808
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You can DIRECTLY associate with Srila Prabhupada by reading his books
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=43179
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=43179#comment-38047
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Brief History of Guru Hoax in ISKCON
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-07/editorials2302.htm
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Prabhupada: RTVIK, YES.
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=39834#comment-28208
Ritvik System is Bonafide
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/02-09/editorials4085.htm
Advaita dās: Those who claim that dīkṣā-mantras received from a family-Guru are ‘dead mantras in a body-succession’ should remember that –
Jagannāth dās Bābājī, Madhusūdan dās Bābājī of Sūryakuṇḍa, Manohar dās Bābājī of Govinda-kuṇḍa, Jaya Kṛṣṇa dās Bābājī of Kāmyavan and Vamśī dās Bābājī of Navadvīpa all took dīkṣā from kula-gurus without giving them up for ‘mahā-bhāgavatas’ and became siddha. How is their mantra ‘dead’ then?
Mahesh: those who are in the status of persons like Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura are there for SPECIFIC purpose:
Regarding your questions, “I read in a book sent from India that Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura was sent directly by Lord Sri Caitanya from the spiritual sky. I am not sure if the book was bona fide. Is the above true? Someone, a God-brother brought up that he heard that Srila Bhaktivinode was at one time an impersonalist. Was he ever?” Yes, what you have heard is all right. Just like Arjuna is constant companion of Krishna, as it is confirmed in the 4th chapter, Krishna says that both Arjuna and He appeared many times on this world, but he had forgotten his past appearance and Krishna did not. Krishna is like the sun, and maya is just like darkness. Where Krishna is present there cannot be any darkness of maya. So as Arjuna although always in the presence of Krishna as eternal companion in friendship, still he had some illusion in the battlefield of Kuruksetra, and Krishna had to dissipate that darkness by the teachings of Bhagavad-gita. The purport is, sometimes even a liberated person like Arjuna plays the part of a conditioned soul in order to play some important part. Similarly, Bhaktivinode Thakura for sometimes was associating with the impersonalists. And then he exhibited himself in his true color as pure devotee, exactly in the same way as Arjuna exhibited in the beginning as a conditioned soul, and then as a liberated soul. So there is nothing to be misunderstood in this connection. Krishna and His devotees sometimes play like that, as much as Lord Buddha although an incarnation of Krishna, preached the philosophy of voidism. These things are conducted in terms of place, audience, time, etc. In the Caitanya Caritamrta it is said that the activities of the Vaisnava cannot be understood even by the greatest scholar. So we have to understand everything through the transparent via media of the Spiritual Master. So there is no doubt about it that Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura is eternal energy of Lord Sri Krishna Caitanya Mahaprabhu. And whatever he did, was just to suit the time, place, circumstances, and etc. There is no contradiction in his activities. Yes, also, what you have learned about Sukadeva is correct. He stayed in the womb of his mother for 16 years because he was fixed on the Brahman conception, and then on hearing the Srimad-Bhagavatam, he became realized and decided to come out and be active in the service of the Lord, to enjoy blissful varieties.
Yes, it is good that your parents come to the temple, and you engage them however you can in Krishna’s service. Hope you are well.
Your ever well-wisher,
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/letters/los_angeles/november/20/1968/madhusudana
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Advaita dās:
Never take mantra from a casteless Guru.”
If a qualified brāhmaṇa cannot be found, a qualified kṣatriya must be sought, and so on downwards:
tad abhāvād dvija śreṣṭha śāntātmā bhagavanmayaḥ
bhāvitātmā ca sarvajñaḥ śāstrajñaḥ sat kriyāparaḥ
siddhi traya samāyukta ācāryatve’bhiṣecitaḥ.
kṣatra viṭ śūdra jātīnāṁ kṣatriyo’nugrahekṣamaḥ
kṣatriyasyāpi ca guror abhāvād īdṛśo yadi
vaiśyaḥ syāt tena kāryaśca dvaye nityam anugrahaḥ
sajātīyena śūdrena tādṛśena mahāmate
anugrahābhiṣekau ca kāryau śūdrasya sarvadā
“In the absence of a qualified brāhmaṇa Guru, one can take a kṣatriya Guru, who is filled with God consciousness, peaceful, knows all about the dīkṣā ritual, knows scripture, is conversant with all rites, has the three siddhis (perfection in practise of mantra, worship of the Guru and the devatās, attained through practises like puraścaraṇa). Such a kṣatriya-Guru can give dīkṣā to his fellow kṣatriyas as well as to vaiśyas and śūdras. Similarly śūdras can always give dīkṣā to their fellow śūdras.” (Haribhakti Vilāsa 1.47)
Mahesh: Word jugglery to convince others that one can accept others as Diksa guru although they are NOT Mahabhagavata:
1) There is NO MENTION of DIKSA on that particular VERSE.
2) It directly CONTRADICTS:
Madhya 24.330 The Sixty-One Explanations of the Atmarama Verse
MAHA-BHAGAVATA-srestho
brahmano vai gurur nrnam
sarvesam eva lokanam
asau pujyo yatha harih
maha-kula-prasuto ‘pi
sarva-yajnesu DIKSITAH
sahasra-sakhadhyayi ca
na guruh syad avaisnavah
((The guru MUST be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service. There are three classes of devotees, and the guru MUST be accepted from the topmost class. The first-class devotee is the spiritual master for all kinds of people. ….When one has attained the topmost position of MAHA-BHAGAVATA, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshiped exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. ONLY SUCH A PERSON IS ELIGIBLE TO OCCUPY THE POST OF A GURU.))
Note: The word DIKSITAH refers to Diksa and ONLY Maha Bhagavata is the one mentioned WHO give this BY DEFINITION.
3) Only Srila Prabhupada’s has to to be accepted: “OR EVEN IF YOU READ SOME BOOKS, YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND UNLESS YOU UNDERSTAND IT FROM ME. THIS IS CALLED PARAMPARA SYSTEM.”
731208SB.LA Lectures
So if you want to understand Bhagavad-gita, then we must understand in the same way as the person who directly heard from. This is called parampara system. Suppose I have heard something from my spiritual master, so I speak to you the same thing. So this is parampara system. You cannot imagine what my spiritual master said. OR EVEN IF YOU READ SOME BOOKS, YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND UNLESS YOU UNDERSTAND IT FROM ME. THIS IS CALLED PARAMPARA SYSTEM. YOU CANNOT JUMP OVER TO THE SUPERIOR GURU, NEGLECTING THE NEXT ACARYA, IMMEDIATE NEXT ACARYA. Just like our, this Gau…, Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s cult; we cannot understand Caitanya Mahaprabhu directly. It is not possible. We have to understand through the Gosvamis. Therefore you’ll find in the Caitanya-caritamrta and at the end of every chapter, the writer says,
sri-rupa-ragunatha-pade yara asa
caitanya-caritamrta kahe krsna-dasa
This is the process. He does not say that “I’ve understood Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu directly.” No. That is not understanding. That is foolishness. You cannot understand what is Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Therefore repeatedly he says, rupa-ragunatha-pade… “I am that Krsna dasa, Kaviraja, who is always under the subordination of the Gosvamis.” This is parampara system. Similarly, Narottama dasa Thakura also says, ei chay gosai jar mui tar das, “I am servant of that person who has accepted this six Gosvamis as his master. I am not going to be servant of any other person who does not accept the way and means of…” Therefore we say or we offer our prayer to our spiritual master, rupanuga-varaya te, rupanuga-varaya te, because he follows Rupa Gosvami, therefore we accept, spiritual master. Not that one has become more than Rupa Gosvami or more than… No. Tandera carana-sebi-bhakta-sane vas. This is the parampara system.
4) Jugglery of words by Advaita dās: ” Such a kṣatriya-Guru can give dīkṣā to his fellow kṣatriyas as well as to vaiśyas and śūdras. Similarly śūdras can always give dīkṣā to their fellow śūdras.”
Mahesh: The actual FACT is Only Maha-Bhagavata is Diksa Guru:
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=41422#more-41422
ONLY MAHA-BHAGAVATA IS DIKSA GURU: Srila Prabhupada is OUR Diksa Guru For As Long as His Books Are On The Planet
Advaita dās:
“Never take mantra from a casteless Guru.”
If a qualified brāhmaṇa cannot be found, a qualified kṣatriya must be sought, and so on downwards:
tad abhāvād dvija śreṣṭha śāntātmā bhagavanmayaḥ
bhāvitātmā ca sarvajñaḥ śāstrajñaḥ sat kriyāparaḥ
siddhi traya samāyukta ācāryatve’bhiṣecitaḥ.
kṣatra viṭ śūdra jātīnāṁ kṣatriyo’nugrahekṣamaḥ
kṣatriyasyāpi ca guror abhāvād īdṛśo yadi
vaiśyaḥ syāt tena kāryaśca dvaye nityam anugrahaḥ
sajātīyena śūdrena tādṛśena mahāmate
anugrahābhiṣekau ca kāryau śūdrasya sarvadā
“In the absence of a qualified brāhmaṇa Guru, one can take a kṣatriya Guru, who is filled with God consciousness, peaceful, knows all about the dīkṣā ritual, knows scripture, is conversant with all rites, has the three siddhis (perfection in practise of mantra, worship of the Guru and the devatās, attained through practises like puraścaraṇa). Such a kṣatriya-Guru can give dīkṣā to his fellow kṣatriyas as well as to vaiśyas and śūdras. Similarly śūdras can always give dīkṣā to their fellow śūdras.” (Haribhakti Vilāsa 1.47)
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Mahesh: above verse TRANSLATION IN ENGLISH is just a MAKE-UP CONCOCTION that brahmana,kṣatriya or sudra can give DIKSA. EVEN at the stage of Brahmana one himself is STILL IN MATERIAL CONTAMINATION so HOW can he give Diksa to someone by which he becomes freed from ALL material contamination??????
“Dīkṣā actually means initiating a disciple with transcendental knowledge by which he becomes FREED FROM ALL MATERIAL CONTAMINATION”.
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/cc/madhya/4/111
Note:
“THE FACT IS, HOWEVER, THAT ONE CANNOT UNDERSTAND THE SCIENCE OF THE PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD UNLESS ONE IS FREED FROM THE CONTAMINATION OF THE MATERIAL MODES, EVEN UP TO THE STAGE OF A BRĀHMAṆA.”
” A BRĀHMAṆA IS THE SYMBOL OF SATTVA-GUṆA, OR THE MODE OF GOODNESS. AND OTHERS, WHO ARE NOT IN THE MODE OF GOODNESS, ARE EITHER KṢATRIYAS, VAIŚYAS, ŚŪDRAS OR LESS THAN THE ŚŪDRAS. The brahminical stage is the highest stage of human life because of its good qualities. SO ONE CANNOT BE A DEVOTEE UNLESS ONE AT LEAST QUALIFIES AS A BRĀHMAṆA. The devotee is already a brāhmaṇa by action. But that is not the end of it. As referred to above, such a brāhmaṇa has to become a Vaiṣṇava in fact to be actually in the transcendental stage. A PURE VAIṢṆAVA IS A LIBERATED SOUL AND IS TRANSCENDENTAL EVEN TO THE POSITION OF A BRĀHMAṆA. IN THE MATERIAL STAGE EVEN A BRĀHMAṆA IS ALSO A CONDITIONED SOUL BECAUSE ALTHOUGH IN THE BRAHMINICAL STAGE THE CONCEPTION OF BRAHMAN OR TRANSCENDENCE IS REALIZED, SCIENTIFIC KNOWLEDGE OF THE SUPREME LORD IS LACKING. ONE HAS TO SURPASS THE BRAHMINICAL STAGE AND REACH THE VASUDEVA STAGE TO UNDERSTAND THE PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD KṚṢṆA. The science of the Personality of Godhead is the subject matter for study by the postgraduate students in the spiritual line. Foolish men, or men with a poor fund of knowledge, do not understand the Supreme Lord, and they interpret Kṛṣṇa according to their respective whims. THE FACT IS, HOWEVER, THAT ONE CANNOT UNDERSTAND THE SCIENCE OF THE PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD UNLESS ONE IS FREED FROM THE CONTAMINATION OF THE MATERIAL MODES, EVEN UP TO THE STAGE OF A BRĀHMAṆA. WHEN A QUALIFIED BRĀHMAṆA FACTUALLY BECOMES A VAIṢṆAVA, IN THE ENLIVENED STATE OF LIBERATION HE CAN KNOW WHAT IS ACTUALLY THE PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD”.
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/sb/1/2/20
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Note: instead of playing about with CONCOCTIONS to REPLACE Srila Prabhupada the Diksa guru best to accept Srila Prabhupada as the Diksa Guru and the Ritvik System of Initiation as per July 9th 1977:
http://www.iskcon-truth.com/official-documents.html
Here is BASIC simple-to-understand-instructions:
NoD 8 Offenses to Be Avoided
The offenses against the chanting of the holy name are as follows: (3) To disobey the orders of the spiritual master.
Madhya 24.330 The Sixty-One Explanations of the Atmarama Verse
MAHA-BHAGAVATA-srestho
brahmano vai gurur nrnam
sarvesam eva lokanam
asau pujyo yatha harih
maha-kula-prasuto ‘pi
sarva-yajnesu DIKSITAH
sahasra-sakhadhyayi ca
na guruh syad avaisnavah
((The guru MUST be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service. There are three classes of devotees, and the guru MUST be accepted from the topmost class. The first-class devotee is the spiritual master for all kinds of people. ….When one has attained the topmost position of MAHA-BHAGAVATA, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshiped exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. ONLY SUCH A PERSON IS ELIGIBLE TO OCCUPY THE POST OF A GURU.))
Note: The word DIKSITAH refers to Diksa and ONLY Maha Bhagavata is the one mentioned WHO give this BY DEFINITION.
75-08-04. Letter: Madhudvisa:
The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I AM IN THE INITIATOR GURU, and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This I want.
“I AM THE SPIRITUAL MASTER OF THIS INSTITUTION, AND ALL THE MEMBERS OF THE SOCIETY, THEY’RE SUPPOSED TO BE MY DISCIPLES. They follow the rules and regulations which I ask them to follow, AND THEY ARE INITIATED BY ME SPIRITUALLY.”(Srila Prabhupada Radio Interview, 12/3/1968)
“Guru-mukha-padma-vakya, cittete koriya aikya, ara na koriho mane asa. Don’t think of any nonsense. Simply execute what your guru has said. That is success.”
(28th January, 1977, Room Conversation)
Advaita dās: Staying with family-succession, it is not true that one can/should not be initiated by one’s parents: Hemalatā Ṭhākurāṇī, guru of Yadunandana Ṭhākura, took initiation from her father Śrīnivāsācārya, Kṛṣṇa Miśra took initiation from his mother Sītā-devī and Vīrabhadra Prabhu took intiation from his co-mother Jāhnavā-devī. Vīrabhadra was a son of Nityānanda Prabhu, but according to ‘Advaita Prakāśa’ he went to Advaita Prabhu for dīkṣā. Advaita Prabhu, however, sent him back to his own family to take dīkṣā there, which confirms that it was the wish of Nityānanda and Advaita Prabhu that these family-guru paramparās would be created.
Mahesh: Srila Prabhupada does not speak of manufacturing “family-guru paramparās” for ISKCON. He has given the Ritvik System as per July 9th 1977 with HIM as the INITIATING spiritual master(Acarya) and the disciples initiated are HIS not the Ritvik’s who does the formality of 1st and 2nd initiation on Srila Prabhupada’s behalf.
3.29.17 P Explanation of Devotional Service by Lord Kapila
In Bhagavad-gita, Thirteenth Chapter, it is clearly stated that one should execute devotional service and advance on the path of spiritual knowledge by accepting the acarya. ACARYOPASANAM: ONE SHOULD WORSHIP AN ACARYA, A SPIRITUAL MASTER WHO KNOWS THINGS AS THEY ARE. THE SPIRITUAL MASTER MUST BE IN THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION FROM KRSNA. THE PREDECESSORS OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER ARE HIS SPIRITUAL MASTER, HIS GRAND SPIRITUAL MASTER, HIS GREAT-GRAND SPIRITUAL MASTER AND SO ON, WHO FORM THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION OF ACARYAS.
Note:Srila Prabhupada is the PROMINENT acarya. We all QUOTE him as authority. Srila Prabhupada’s Law Books are ONLY quoted accepted by all.
68-04-12.Day Letter: Dayananda
Regarding parampara system: there is nothing to wonder for big gaps.
Just like we belong to the Brahma Sampradaya, so we accept it from Krishna to Brahma, Brahma to Narada, Narada to Vyasadeva, Vyasadeva to Madhva, and between Vyasadeva and Madhva there is a big gap. But it is sometimes said that Vyasadeva is still living, and Madhva was fortunate enough to meet him directly. In a similar way, we find in the Bhagavad-gita that the Gita was taught to the sungod, some millions of years ago, but Krishna has mentioned only three names in this parampara system–namely, Vivasvan, Manu, and Iksvaku; and so these gaps do not hamper from understanding the parampara system. WE HAVE TO PICK UP THE PROMINENT ACARYAS, AND FOLLOW FROM HIM. There are many branches also from the parampara system, and it is not possible to record all the branches and sub-branches in the disciplic succession. We have to pick up from the authority of the acharya in whatever sampradaya we belong to.
Note: Srila Prabhupada is the 30. SRI SRIMAD BHAKTIVEDANTA.
68-02-13. Letter: Upendra
There are four Sampradayas from the beginning of the creation. One is called Brahma Sampradaya, and is coming down by disciplic succession from Brahma; another Sampradaya is coming down from Laksmi, called Sri Sampradaya; another is coming down from the Kumaras, they are known as Nimbarka Sampradaya; another Sampradaya is coming from Lord Siva, Rudra Sampradaya or Visnu Swami. These are four bona fide Sampradayas that are accepted by the bona fide spiritualists. The Impersonalist Sampradaya is not original neither the Impersonalist Sampradaya or party can help us. At the present moment there are so many Sampradayas, but we have to test them about their method of disciplic understanding. Anyway, all the four Sampradayas above mentioned, they are after worshipping the Supreme Lord Visnu, in His different Expansions, and some of them are in favor of worshipping Radha Krishna. In the later age the Brahma Sampradaya was handed down though Madhva Acarya; in this Madhva Acarya disciplic succession came Isvara Puri. This Isvara Puri was accepted as Spiritual Master of Lord Caitanya. Therefore, we being in disciplic succession of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, we are known as the Madhva Sampradaya. And because Lord Caitanya appeared in Bengal, which country is called Gaudadesa, our Sampradaya party is known as Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya. But all these Sampradayas are non-different from one another because they believe and worship the Supreme Lord. Any other Sampradaya who are Impersonalist or voidist or non-devotee, they are rejected by us. MY GURU MAHARAJA WAS IN THE 10TH GENERATION FROM LORD CAITANYA. WE ARE 11TH FROM LORD CAITANYA. THE DISCIPLIC SUCESSION IS AS FOLLOWS: 1. SRI KRISHNA, 2. BRAHMA, 3. NARADA, 4. VYASA, 5. MADHVA, 6. PADMANABHA, 7. NRIHARI, 8. MADHAVA, 9. AKSHOBHYA, 10. JAYATIRTHA, 11. JNANASINDHU, 12. PURUSOTTAMA, 13. VIDYANIDHI, 14. RAJENDRA, 15. JAYADHARMA, 16. PURUSOTTAMA, 17. VYASATIRTHA, 18. LAKSMIPATI, 19. MADHAVENDRA PURI, 20. ISVARA PURI (ADVAITA, NITYANANDA) 21. SRI CAITANYA MAHAPRABHU, 22. (SVARUPA, SANATANA) RUPA, 23.(JIVA) RAGHUNATH, 24. KRISHNA DASA, 25. NAROTTAMA, 26. VISVANATHA, 27. (BALADEVA.) JAGANNATHA, 28. (BHAKTIVINODE) GAURA-KISORA, 29. SRILA BHAKTISIDDHANTA SARASVATI, SRI BARSHABHANAVIDAYITADAS, 30. SRI SRIMAD BHAKTIVEDANTA.
The original title is Who or what is a guru?
I suspect that this article was supposed to be directed at those who could appreciate a little advice on the matter. Those who may need to understand, learn and appreciate the true answer to the question will be at a loss when viewing this ongoing debate. Gentlemen for the general world audience please be more succinct next time. We know you are very adept well educated scholars and debaters. You are qualified teachers so to help those who are in need of a true answer to the original title Who or what is a Guru?
present a series of classes to this web site to help them understand. A series in parts.
Below is what I put together with the help of a few devotees over the years which was kindly posted by this web site. Even if one person anonymously takes up the teachings from the on line Gita at this site then the projects purpose has been fulfilled. We can compare one guru to another guru endlessly. However compare the teachings of the guru that we understand as bona fide to the accepted guru of others in an educational forum in the best approach.
Learn to be teachers and learn to express your own personal understandings of what you realize from your years as a devotee serving Srila Prabhupada. That helps to set the example as a true representative of Srila Prabhupada. This is what he wants.
https://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=50257
The Secret of Diksa:
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Goswami Maharaj (August 8th 1934)
Rajen Babu – Is it necessary for me to take diksa again if I have already taken diksa from a kula-guru (hereditary family guru)? He does not eat fish or meat; he studies the Bhagavatam, is the son of a Gosvami and is a householder.
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada –
asat sanga tyaga – ei vaisnava acara
stri-sange eka asadhu krsnabhakta ara
To discard the company of those who diminish one’s resolve in krsna-bhakti (asat-sanga) is truly the natural conduct of a Vaisnava. And the most detrimental association of all is those who enjoy the company of women and the non-devotees. (Cc. Madhya. 22.087)
These two types of non-devotees can never become spiritual masters. They are not devotees of Krsna.
kiba vipra kiba nyasi sudra kene naya
yei krsna-tattva-vetta sei guru haya
Whether one is a brahmana, a sannyasi, a sudra or whatever, if he is fully conversant with the science of Krsna, he is eligible to become a guru. (Cc. Madhya. 8.128)
From this we understand that Sri Gurudeva must be a krsna-tattva-vetta (one who knows the science of Krsna). It is incorrect to assume that only those who are born in a high caste family, who has attained knowledge of the Absolute (brahma-jnana), or who are famous are entitled to be guru. Sri Gurudeva may externally be a brahmana, a sannyasi or a grhastha – that is irrelevant. If the spiritual master is not a krsna-tattva-vetta, he should be abandoned.
Sri Guru is sadacari – one who correctly practices devotional principles. The question may be asked, “What is acara?”
In reply it has been said, asat sanga tyaga – ei vaishnava achara. Who is asat? Those who are addicted to illicit connections with women (stri-sangi) and those who are averse to Krsna (krsnabhakta) –these are the two types of non-devotees. Their association must be abandoned. The general understanding of the term asat is that which is unreal.
Sat is that which is unchangable, which is not transformable, which is not transmutable.
The opposite state of sat is asat. There are two terms known as grhastha and grha-vrata. One who pays less attention to Krsna and is more attached to his wife, considering her to be the most cherished thing in his life, is known as yosit-sangi (one who is addicted to women). Such householders that are attached to matter, which is inferior to Krsna, are known as grha-vratas. Therefore a grha-vrata can never be a guru. Those who perform hari-bhajana – whether they are grhasthas or sannyasis –should be considered as most excellent. Otherwise even a sannyasi that does not perform hari-bhajana should be understood to be a non-devotee.
Rajen Babu: Can’t a kanistha Vaisnava become a guru?
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada:
Kanistha, madhyama and uttama are the gradations amongst Vaisnavas. In the kanistha stage of Vaisnavism, only non-Vaisnavism is absent – this I shall explain in detail a little later. How can we deliberate upon adhikara and define who is a Vaisnava without taking shelter of a sad-guru? Only Gurudeva can explain adhikara. How can one who has never entered the domain of a devotee, who cannot himself understand anything, explain such things to others? If a non-Vaisnava sits on the seat of the guru, it amounts to sheer contempt of guru-tattva.
guror apy avaliptasya karyakaryam ajanatah
utpatha-pratipannasya parityago vidhiyate
If the guru becomes attached to sense gratification, loses his sense of duty, and follows a degraded path, a path other than devotional service to the Lord, he should be rejected. (Mahabharata, Udyoga Parva 179.25)
What is the point of approaching someone who instead of being guru (heavy) is laghu (light)? If you beat empty chaff with all your strength, will you be able to extract any grains? If my guide goes in the wrong direction, then I must retire from the journey. It is only proper to reject the shelter of such a guide. Srila Jiva Gosvami Prabhu had said:
vyavaharika-gurvadiparityagenapi paramartha-gurasrayo kartavyah
A guru based upon mundane conventions should be rejected. One must accept a qualified spiritual master. (Bhakti-sandharba, Annucheda 210)
Yfs, Dasanudas
Dasanudas , please read ” The Secret of Diksa Guru Qualification ;
The Secret of Diksa:
3.29.17 P Explanation of Devotional Service by Lord Kapila
In Bhagavad-gita, Thirteenth Chapter, it is clearly stated that one should execute devotional service and advance on the path of spiritual knowledge by accepting the acarya. ACARYOPASANAM: ONE SHOULD WORSHIP AN ACARYA, A SPIRITUAL MASTER WHO KNOWS THINGS AS THEY ARE. THE SPIRITUAL MASTER MUST BE IN THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION FROM KRSNA. THE PREDECESSORS OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER ARE HIS SPIRITUAL MASTER, HIS GRAND SPIRITUAL MASTER, HIS GREAT-GRAND SPIRITUAL MASTER AND SO ON, WHO FORM THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION OF ACARYAS.
Therefpore, a description of the Qualified Diksa Guru as given in Dasanudas comments regarding ” The Secret of Diksa ” does not correspond with the Sadhus and Sastras which means that it is INCOMPLETE.
It simply describes ( as it appears a merely qualification of the Practitioner aka some one advanced devotee ) a Siksha Guru sometime who is cultivating Krishna Consciousness BUT he is not the authorized Diksa Guru who can give Diksha to others which please note.
If he does so, then, he becomes a CHEATER, a Bogus, Unauthorized Guru. Please beware of such so called Guru as there are plenty of them in the dress of a Vaishnava community all around the world making some cheap disciples.
OM TAT SAT.
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Amar Puri please do your research correctly.
I have not made even ONE WORD of ‘comment’ in the above quote, as you have stated in your reply. EVERY WORD in my post was spoken by my Paramguru, His Divine Grace Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Goswami Maharaja, so it is his words with which you have a problem.
On the morning of Wednesday, August 8th 1934, Sriyukta Rajendranath Pal Chaudhuri Mahasaya, the famous zamindar of Louhajang, came to Sri Gaudiya Matha accompanied by one of his employees. Offering his humble dandavats at the lotus feet of Sri Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Prabhupada, he expressed his desire to hear some words on Sri Guru-tattva and the secret of diksa etc. Srila Prabhupada obligingly gave a valuable discourse for two hours.
Dasanudas
Dasanudas,
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada:
” ….. In the kanistha stage of Vaisnavism, only non-Vaisnavism is absent – this I shall explain in detail a little later. ………. ”
NOTE ; Since ( Dasanudas ) in your posting such details are absent, therefore, to avoid any misunderstanding by the readers, I did quote the following simply to clarify it further ;
3.29.17 P Explanation of Devotional Service by Lord Kapila
” In Bhagavad-gita, Thirteenth Chapter, it is clearly stated that one should execute devotional service and advance on the path of spiritual knowledge by accepting the acarya. ACARYOPASANAM: ONE SHOULD WORSHIP AN ACARYA, A SPIRITUAL MASTER WHO KNOWS THINGS AS THEY ARE. THE SPIRITUAL MASTER MUST BE IN THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION FROM KRSNA. THE PREDECESSORS OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER ARE HIS SPIRITUAL MASTER, HIS GRAND SPIRITUAL MASTER, HIS GREAT-GRAND SPIRITUAL MASTER AND SO ON, WHO FORM THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION OF ACARYAS. ”
NOTE ; That is the reason why I wrote in my comments ;
” Therefpore, a description of the Qualified Diksa Guru as given in Dasanudas comments regarding ” The Secret of Diksa ” does not correspond with the Sadhus and Sastras which means that it is INCOMPLETE. ”
NOW does it mean that I have a problem with His Divine Grace Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Goswami Maharaja’s words, Dasanudas Prabhu ?
NO. Not at all.
Hope it clarifies the meaning of INCOMPLETE.
OM TAT SAT.
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Srila Prabhupada’s Lecture on Srimad-Bhagavatam, December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:
“You cannot imagine what my spiritual master said. Or even if you read some books, you cannot understand UNLESS YOU UNDERSTAND IT FROM ME. This is called parampara system. YOU CANNOT JUMP OVER TO THE SUPERIOR GURU, NEGLECTING THE NEXT ACARYA, IMMEDIATE NEXT ACARYA.”
Note:
Point 1) there is a class of persons who want to be disciples of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta sarasvati Thakura by JUMPING OVER over Srila Prabhupada. These class want to be diksa gurus therefore try and SURPASS Srila Prabhupada’s instructions by QUOTING Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura. BUT they do not know that Srila Prabhupada has stated VERY clearly “UNLESS YOU UNDERSTAND IT FROM ME”. So automatically these wannabe diksa gurus are rejected. Their whole scheme is how to REPLACE Srila Prabhupada as Diksa guru.
To replace Srila Prabhupada as Diksa Guru requires one to be PROMINENT ACARYA. And ONLY Srila Prabhupada is THE PROMINENT ACARYA all the world accepts his books QUOTES him:
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=46581
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Point 2) krsna-tattva-vetta (one who knows the science of Krsna). Knowing the SCIENCE of Krsna – this is NOT so cheap.
In a primary school one may know some BASIC level science of ABCD -that’s all. HOWEVER – this is NOT the SCIENCE that the Nuclear Physics PROFESSOR is so much RECOGNIZED with. NOBODY can claim to be PROFESSOR of Nuclear Physics who is just on the BASIC level of primary school education of ABCD science.
Diksa guru is NOT SO CHEAP.
Note: Madhyama AdhIkari is the actual RECEPIENT of Diksa by which his Svarupa is REVEALED:
Antya 4.192 T Sanatana Gosvami Visits the Lord at Jagannatha Puri
DIKSA-KALE bhakta kare atma-samarpana
sei-kale krsna tare kare atma-sama
SYNONYMS
diksa-kale–at the time of initiation; bhakta–the devotee; kare–does; atma–of himself; samarpana–full dedication; sei-kale–at that time; krsna–Lord Krsna; tare–him; kare–makes; atma-sama–as spiritual as Himself.
TRANSLATION
AT THE TIME OF INITIATION, when a devotee FULLY SURRENDERS UNTO THE SERVICE OF THE LORD, Krsna accepts him to be AS GOOD AS HIMSELF.
Antya 4.193 T Sanatana Gosvami Visits the Lord at Jagannatha Puri
sei deha kare tara cid-ananda-maya
aprakrta-dehe tanra carana bhajaya
SYNONYMS
sei deha–that body; kare–makes; tara–his; cit-ananda-maya–full of transcendental bliss; aprakrta-dehe–IN THAT TRANSCENDENTAL BODY; tanra–His; carana–feet; bhajaya–worships.
TRANSLATION
“When the devotee’s body is thus transformed into spiritual existence, the devotee, IN THAT TRANSCENDENTAL BODY, renders service to the lotus feet of the Lord.
Antya 4.194 T Sanatana Gosvami Visits the Lord at Jagannatha Puri
martyo yada tyakta-samasta-karma
niveditatma vicikirsito me
tadamrtatvam pratipadyamano
mayatma-bhuyaya ca kalpate vai
SYNONYMS
martyah–the living entity subjected to birth and death; yada–as soon as; tyakta–giving up; samasta–all; karmah–fruitive activities; nivedita-atma–a fully surrendered soul; vicikirsitah–desired to act; me–by Me; TADA–AT THAT TIME; AMRTATVAM–IMMORTALITY; pratipadyamanah–attaining; maya–with Me; atma-bhuyaya–for becoming of a similar nature; ca–also; kalpate–is eligible; vai–certainly.
TRANSLATION
Antya 4.194 Sanatana Gosvami Visits the Lord at Jagannatha Puri
” ‘The living entity who is subjected to birth and death, when he gives up all material activities dedicating his life to Me for executing My order, and thus acts according to My direction, AT THAT TIME HE REACHES THE PLATFORM OF IMMORTALITY, AND BECOMES FIT TO ENJOY THE SPIRITUAL BLISS OF EXCHANGE OF LOVING MELLOWS WITH ME.’
PURPORT
THIS IS A QUOTATION FROM SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM (11.29.34). AT THE TIME OF INITIATION, A DEVOTEE GIVES UP ALL HIS MATERIAL CONCEPTIONS. THEREFORE, BEING IN TOUCH WITH THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD, HE IS SITUATED ON THE TRANSCENDENTAL PLATFORM. THUS HAVING ATTAINED KNOWLEDGE AND THE SPIRITUAL PLATFORM, HE ALWAYS ENGAGES IN THE SERVICE OF THE SPIRITUAL BODY OF KRSNA. WHEN ONE IS FREED FROM MATERIAL CONNECTIONS IN THIS WAY, HIS BODY IMMEDIATELY BECOMES SPIRITUAL, AND KRSNA ACCEPTS HIS SERVICE. However, Krsna does not accept anything from a person with a material conception of life. When a devotee no longer has any desire for material sense gratification, in his spiritual identity he engages in the service of the Lord, for his dormant spiritual consciousness awakens. This awakening of spiritual consciousness makes his body spiritual, and thus he becomes fit to render service to the Lord. Karmis may consider the body of a devotee material, but factually it is not, for a devotee has no conception of material enjoyment. If one thinks that the body of a pure devotee is material, he is an offender, for that is a vaisnava-aparadha. In this connection one should consult Srila Sanatana Gosvami’s Brhad-bhagavatamrta (1.3.45 and 2.3.139).
NoI 5
A madhyama-adhikari has received SPIRITUAL INITIATION from the spiritual master and has been FULLY ENGAGED BY HIM IN THE TRANSCENDENTAL LOVING SERVICE OF THE LORD.
760211SB.MAY Lectures
In the madhyama-adhikari he can see four things. What is that? Four things means, first of all the Supreme Lord, isvara, the controller, he CAN SEE. He can see means he understands, he appreciates, he can conceive, “Yes, the Supreme Lord is there”. There is NO MORE THEORETICAL.
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Madhya 15.108 The Lord Accepts Prasada at the House of Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya
“DIKSA IS THE PROCESS by which one can awaken HIS TRANSCENDENTAL KNOWLEDGE and VANQUISH ALL REACTIONS CAUSED BY SINFUL ACTIVITY. A person expert in the study of the revealed scriptures knows this process as diksa.”
Note: (Svarupa)CONSTITUTIONAL POSITION AS THE ETERNAL SERVITOR OF THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD realized resulting: VANQUISH ALL REACTIONS CAUSED BY SINFUL ACTIVITY. Karma (fruitive activity) burned up THIS is DIKSA.
Bg 4.19 T Transcendental Knowledge
yasya sarve samarambhah
kama-sankalpa-varjitah
jnanagni-dagdha-karmanam
tam ahuh panditam budhah
SYNONYMS
yasya–one whose; sarve–all sorts of; samarambhah–in all attempts; kama–desire for sense gratification; sankalpa–determination; varjitah–are devoid of; jnana–of perfect knowledge; agni–fire; dagdha–being burnt by; karmanam–the performer; tam–him; ahuh–declare; panditam–learned; budhah–of those who know.
TRANSLATION
One is understood to be in full knowledge whose every act is devoid of desire for sense gratification. He is said by sages to be a worker whose fruitive action is burned up by the fire of perfect knowledge.
PURPORT
Only a person in full knowledge can understand the activities of a person in Krsna consciousness. Because the person in Krsna consciousness is devoid of all kinds of sense-gratificatory propensities, IT IS TO BE UNDERSTOOD THAT HE HAS BURNED UP THE REACTIONS OF HIS WORK BY PERFECT KNOWLEDGE OF HIS CONSTITUTIONAL POSITION AS THE ETERNAL SERVITOR OF THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD. He is actually learned who has attained to such perfection of knowledge. DEVELOPMENT OF THIS KNOWLEDGE OF THE ETERNAL SERVITORSHIP OF THE LORD IS COMPARED TO FIRE. SUCH A FIRE, ONCE KINDLED, CAN BURN UP ALL KINDS OF REACTIONS TO WORK.
SB 1.2.21 T Divinity and Divine Service
bhidyate hrdaya-granthis
chidyante sarva-samsayah
ksiyante casya karmani
drsta evatmanisvare
SYNONYMS
bhidyate–pierced; hrdaya–heart; granthih–knots; chidyante–cut to pieces; sarva–all; samsayah–misgivings; ksiyante–terminated; ca–and; asya–his; karmani–chain of fruitive actions; drste–having seen; eva–certainly; atmani–unto the self; isvare–dominating.
TRANSLATION
Thus the knot in the heart is pierced, and all misgivings are cut to pieces. THE CHAIN OF FRUITIVE ACTIONS IS TERMINATED WHEN ONE SEES THE SELF AS MASTER.
PURPORT
ATTAINING SCIENTIFIC KNOWLEDGE OF THE PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD MEANS SEEING ONE’S OWN SELF SIMULTANEOUSLY.
This enlightenment perfectly enables the devotee to distinguish spirit from matter because the knot of spirit and matter is untied by the Lord. This knot is called ahankara, and it falsely obliges a living being to become identified with matter. As soon as this knot is loosened, therefore, all the clouds of doubt are at once cleared off. One sees his master and fully engages himself in the transcendental loving service of the Lord, making a full termination of the chain of fruitive action. In material existence, a living being creates his own chain of fruitive work and enjoys the good and bad effects of those actions life after life. BUT AS SOON AS HE ENGAGES HIMSELF IN THE LOVING SERVICE OF THE LORD, HE AT ONCE BECOMES FREE FROM THE CHAIN OF KARMA. HIS ACTIONS NO LONGER CREATE ANY REACTION.
Note: UNLESS ONE IS INITIATED BY THE RIGHT PERSON, WHO ALWAYS CARRIES WITHIN HIS HEART THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD, ONE CANNOT ACQUIRE THE POWER TO CARRY THE SUPREME GODHEAD WITHIN THE CORE OF ONE’S OWN HEART. Krsna is TRANSMITTED from Srila Prabhupada’s heart to the PURE devotee disciples heart. Accepting a faulty bogus guru means no television in heart. Krsna does not go to faulty televison. No diksa!
SB 1.6.33 P Conversation Between Narada and Vyasadeva
The Absolute Personality of Godhead is not different from His transcendental name, form, pastimes and the sound vibrations thereof. As soon as a pure devotee engages himself in the pure devotional service of hearing, chanting and remembering the name, fame and activities of the Lord, at once He becomes VISIBLE TO THE TRANSCENDENTAL EYES of the PURE DEVOTEE by REFLECTING HIMSELF ON THE MIRROR OF THE HEART BY SPIRITUAL TELEVISION. Therefore a pure devotee who is related with the Lord in loving transcendental service can EXPERIENCE THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD AT EVERY MOMENT.
Note: ONLY Mahabhagavata PURE devotee ANOINTED with LOVE of GODHEAD can give Diksa because he is FACTUAL krsna-tattva-vetta (one who KNOWS the science of Krsna). Kanistha does NOT have the capability of THIS science:
SB 2.9.35 P Answers by Citing the Lord’ s Version
Therefore, although He is present in every atom, the Supreme Personality of Godhead may not be visible to the dry speculators; still the mystery is unfolded before the eyes of the pure devotees because their eyes are anointed with love of Godhead. And this love of Godhead can be attained only by the practice of transcendental loving service of the Lord, and nothing else. The vision of the devotees is not ordinary; it is purified by the process of devotional service. In other words, as the universal elements are both within and without, similarly the Lord’s name, form, quality, pastimes, entourage, etc., as they are described in the revealed scriptures or as performed in the Vaikunthalokas, far, far beyond the material cosmic manifestation, are factually being televised in the heart of the devotee. The man with a poor fund of knowledge cannot understand, although by material science one can see things far away by means of television. FACTUALLY, THE SPIRITUALLY DEVELOPED PERSON IS ABLE TO HAVE THE TELEVISION OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD ALWAYS REFLECTED WITHIN HIS HEART. THAT IS THE MYSTERY OF KNOWLEDGE OF THE PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD.
710907IN.LON Lectures
So the time is up? No. (break) By initiated process one is elevated to the highest position in this material world. Brahmanas’ position, in this material world, is the highest position. So this is a training to come to the brahminical stage. THEN ONE HAS TO SURPASS THAT BRAHMINICAL STAGE ALSO. THAT IS CALLED PURE GOODNESS. BRAHMANA IS GOODNESS, BUT THERE IS CHANCE OF BEING CONTAMINATED WITH PASSION AND IGNORANCE, BECAUSE IT IS MATERIAL WORLD. BUT WHEN (ONE) SURPASSES THAT BRAHMINICAL STAGE AND BECOMES PURE VAISNAVA, THEN KRSNA BECOMES REVEALED TO HIM. THEREFORE KRSNA’S NAME IS VASUDEVA. PURE STAGE OF LIFE IS CALLED VASUDEVA STAGE. JUST LIKE VASUDEVA WAS FATHER OF KRSNA. THAT MEANS WHEN ONE IS SITUATED IN THE VASUDEVA STAGE, SUDDHA-SATTVA, PURE GOODNESS, KRSNA IS BORN. KRSNA BORN MEANS KRSNA BECOMES VISIBLE, REVEALED. So this initiation process is gradually to raise a devotee to that platform.
SB 10.2.18 Prayers by the Demigods for Lord Krsna in the Womb
Thereafter, accompanied by plenary expansions, the fully opulent Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is all-auspicious for the entire universe, was TRANSFERRED FROM THE MIND OF VASUDEVA TO THE MIND OF DEVAKI. DEVAKI, HAVING THUS BEEN INITIATED BY VASUDEVA, BECAME BEAUTIFUL BY CARRYING LORD KRSNA, THE ORIGINAL CONSCIOUSNESS FOR EVERYONE, THE CAUSE OF ALL CAUSES, WITHIN THE CORE OF HER HEART, just as the east becomes beautiful by carrying the rising moon.
PURPORT
As indicated here by the word manastah, the Supreme Personality of Godhead was transferred from the core of Vasudeva’s mind or heart to the core of the heart of Devaki. We should note carefully that the Lord was transferred to Devaki not by the ordinary way for a human being, but by diksa, initiation. Thus the importance of initiation is mentioned here. UNLESS ONE IS INITIATED BY THE RIGHT PERSON, WHO ALWAYS CARRIES WITHIN HIS HEART THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD, ONE CANNOT ACQUIRE THE POWER TO CARRY THE SUPREME GODHEAD WITHIN THE CORE OF ONE’S OWN HEART.
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770214r2.may Conversations
Prabhupada: Kanistha-adhikari means he must be a brahmana. That is kanistha-adhikari. The spiritual life, kanistha-adhikari, means he must be a QUALIFIED brahmana. That is kanistha. What is esteemed as very high position in the material world, brahmana, that is kanistha-adhikari.
arcāyām eva haraye
pūjāṁ yaḥ śraddhayehate
na tad-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu
sa bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ
The brahmana means from the material stage gradually he is elevated to the spiritual stage. AND BELOW THE BRAHMANA THERE IS NO QUESTION OF VAISNAVA.
760206mw.may Conversations
Dayananda: Even the jnanis and yogis become…
Prabhupada: What is these jnanis? They are also another rascal, another edition of rascals. Bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate. Therefore so-called jnanis, after many, many births’ practical realization, they surrender to Krsna. Vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma. Then he understands that Krsna is everything. But such great person is very, very rare. Sa mahatma sudurlabhah, very, very rare.
Dayananda: But what about the persons who may be a little bit devoted but who have not achieved that unalloyed devotion?
Prabhupada: Kanistha-adhikari. They are not devotees, but they are called bhaktabhasa. There is some signs of bhakti. ACTUALLY THEY ARE NOT BHAKTA. Bhaktabhasa. Abhasa. Abhasa means a simple, a little light.
Hrdayananda: So devotee really means one who has love for Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes, unalloyed, without any condition. Anyabhilasita-sunyam, zero, all other, that “I am this, I am that, I am jnani, I am yogi, I am karmi, I am minister, I am king”–all these are thinking like that, they’re all nonsense. “I am servant of Krsna”–that is greatness. Jivera svarupa haya nitya-krsna-dasa. That is self-realization, atma-tattvam.
Further reading:
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=47106
Mahesh Raja says:
18. July 2019 at 6:11 pm
Srila Prabhupada’s Lecture on Srimad-Bhagavatam, December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:
“You cannot imagine what my spiritual master said. Or even if you read some books, you cannot understand UNLESS YOU UNDERSTAND IT FROM ME. This is called parampara system. YOU CANNOT JUMP OVER TO THE SUPERIOR GURU, NEGLECTING THE NEXT ACARYA, IMMEDIATE NEXT ACARYA.”
Note:
Point 1) there is a class of persons who want to be disciples of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta sarasvati Thakura by JUMPING OVER over Srila Prabhupada. These class want to be diksa gurus therefore try and SURPASS Srila Prabhupada’s instructions by QUOTING Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura. BUT they do not know that Srila Prabhupada has stated VERY clearly “UNLESS YOU UNDERSTAND IT FROM ME”. So automatically these wannabe diksa gurus are rejected. Their whole scheme is how to REPLACE Srila Prabhupada as Diksa guru.
To replace Srila Prabhupada as Diksa Guru requires one to be PROMINENT ACARYA. And ONLY Srila Prabhupada is THE PROMINENT ACARYA all the world accepts his books QUOTES him:
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=46581
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NOTE ; That is exactly I noticed from the writing of Dasanudas posting indicating as to what Mahesh Prabhu has brought out very nicely in his comments which reads ;
” there is a class of persons who want to be disciples of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta sarasvati Thakura by JUMPING OVER over Srila Prabhupada. These class want to be diksa gurus therefore try and SURPASS Srila Prabhupada’s instructions by QUOTING Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura. BUT they do not know that Srila Prabhupada has stated VERY clearly “UNLESS YOU UNDERSTAND IT FROM ME”. So automatically these wannabe diksa gurus are rejected. Their whole scheme is how to REPLACE Srila Prabhupada as Diksa guru. ”
That is why I wrote in my comments that Dasanudas posted comments were INCOMPLETE and I clarify it further in my comments by posting from the Sastras.
So this Class of persons / devotees in the dress of a Vaishnavas who ” WANNA BE GOROOS” all around the present created Fiskcon Guru Tattva system as well as other Camps of Gaudiya Mathas use these type of INCOMPLETE misrepresentation from the previous Acharayas and the Sastras Quotes to back up their ambition and justify it through the INCOMPLETE writing on the GURU TATTVA that any body can become GURU to bewilder the massive innocent people in order to simply collect disciples for their personal motivated agenda.
That is why undiluted Srila Prabhupada’s VANI is so very important to all the sincere and serious followers to help massive innocent people for spreading the pure message of Love of Godhead indiscriminately to every one and every where in order to make their respective lives sublime in cultivating Krsna Consciousness.
OM TAT SAT.
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Dasanudas reply to Amar Puri :”EVERY WORD in my post was spoken by my Paramguru, His Divine Grace Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Goswami Maharaja, so it is his words with which you have a problem.”
Mahesh:
731213DB.LA
“Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura passed away from this material world on 31st December, 1936.”
Note: here is the Maths: from 1936 – 2019 makes it 83 years. Means Dasanudas has to be MUCH OLDER then 1936 to get initiated so add another 20 years ??? EXTREMELY doubtful if Dasanudas actually took initiation from Srila Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura and is his Paramaguru. Besides this, here is Srila Prabhupada’s account on his Godbrothers:
Srila Prabhupada’s Godbrothers
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-07/editorials2260.htm
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Analysis of Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Rupanuga
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-07/editorials2250.htm
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The POWER of Srila Prabhupada’s books:
Srila Prabhupada Letter to Sri Govinda, January 20th, 1972
“There is no need by any of my disciples to read any books besides my books – in fact, such reading may be DETRIMENTAL to their advancement in Krishna Consciousness. All reading of outside books, except in certain authorized cases such as for example to read some philosopher like Plato to make an essay comparing his philosophy with Krishna’s philosophy – but otherwise all such outside reading should be stopped immediately. It is simply another botheration. If my students cannot even read my own books thoroughly, why they should read others? I have given you TLC, what need is there to read Caitanya Caritamrta translated by someone else. You are right to stop such reading.”
73-12-25.Letter: Gurukrpa , Yasodanandana
Whatever is to be learned of the teachings of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura can be learned from our books. THERE IS NO NEED WHATSOEVER FOR ANY OUTSIDE INSTRUCTION.
731208SB.LA Lectures
So if you want to understand Bhagavad-gita, then we must understand in the same way as the person who directly heard from. This is called parampara system. Suppose I have heard something from my spiritual master, so I speak to you the same thing. So this is parampara system. You cannot imagine what my spiritual master said. OR EVEN IF YOU READ SOME BOOKS, YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND UNLESS YOU UNDERSTAND IT FROM ME. THIS IS CALLED PARAMPARA SYSTEM. YOU CANNOT JUMP OVER TO THE SUPERIOR GURU, NEGLECTING THE NEXT ACARYA, IMMEDIATE NEXT ACARYA. Just like our, this Gau…, Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s cult; we cannot understand Caitanya Mahaprabhu directly. It is not possible. We have to understand through the Gosvamis. Therefore you’ll find in the Caitanya-caritamrta and at the end of every chapter, the writer says,
sri-rupa-ragunatha-pade yara asa
caitanya-caritamrta kahe krsna-dasa
This is the process. He does not say that “I’ve understood Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu directly.” No. That is not understanding. That is foolishness. You cannot understand what is Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Therefore repeatedly he says, rupa-ragunatha-pade… “I am that Krsna dasa, Kaviraja, who is always under the subordination of the Gosvamis.” This is parampara system. Similarly, Narottama dasa Thakura also says, ei chay gosai jar mui tar das, “I am servant of that person who has accepted this six Gosvamis as his master. I am not going to be servant of any other person who does not accept the way and means of…” Therefore we say or we offer our prayer to our spiritual master, rupanuga-varaya te, rupanuga-varaya te, because he follows Rupa Gosvami, therefore we accept, spiritual master. Not that one has become more than Rupa Gosvami or more than… No. Tandera carana-sebi-bhakta-sane vas. This is the parampara system.
74-11-22. Letter: Bahurupa
I am pleased to hear that you are chanting 16 rounds daily and reading my books regularly and following the four rules. IN MY BOOKS THE PHILOSOPHY OF KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS IS EXPLAINED FULLY SO IF THERE IS ANYTHING WHICH YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND, THEN YOU SIMPLY HAVE TO READ AGAIN AND AGAIN. BY READING DAILY THE KNOWLEDGE WILL BE REVEALED TO YOU AND BY THIS PROCESS YOUR SPIRITUAL LIFE WILL DEVELOP.
75-09-18. Letter: Babhru, Satyaki
PLEASE CONTINUE READING MY BOOKS SERIOUSLY AND EVERYTHING WILL BE REVEALED TO YOU.
74-11-22. Letter: Hugo Salemon
So far your worship of Lord Jagannatha in your home and your becoming initiated. It is alright provided you have the recommendation of the temple president. I am very glad to see that such a young boy as yourself you are taking serious interest in this Krishna Consciousness Movement. Please continue in this way Our process is something universal. It cannot be checked by any means. Anyone in any place, in any country can chant Hare Krishna. If it is possible to go to the temple, then take advantage of the temple. A temple is a place where by one is given the opportunity to render direct devotional service to the Supreme Lord Sri Krishna. IN CONJUNCTION WITH THIS YOU SHOULD ALWAYS READ MY BOOKS DAILY AND ALL YOUR QUESTIONS WILL BE ANSWERED AND YOU WILL HAVE A FIRM BASIS OF KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS. IN THIS WAY YOUR LIFE WILL BE PERFECT.
730513mw.la Conversations
Paramahamsa: Srila Prabhupada, when you are not present with us, how is it possible to receive instructions, for example, on questions that may arise?
Prabhupada: Well, the questions… ANSWERS ARE THERE IN MY BOOKS.
Paramahamsa: Other than that, for example, that we would ask you in…
Prabhupada: Yes.
Paramahamsa: DO YOU DIRECT US ALSO THROUGH THE HEART? BESIDES THE PARAMATMA?
Prabhupada: IF YOUR HEART IS PURE. EVERYTHING DEPENDS ON PURITY.
75-11-15. Letter: Janajanmadhih
So, if you are strong enough to preach Krsna consciousness there, that is very good; that as long as you chant your 16 rounds and follow the four regulative principles, then you will get the strength. THE PROCESS IS THAT YOU SHOULD MEMORIZE THE PURPORTS OF MY BOOKS AND THEN SPEAK THEM IN YOUR OWN WORDS. DO NOT ADULTERATE OR CHANGE ANYTHING. THEN YOU WILL BE THE PERFECT PREACHER. You should also distribute our books as far as possible. If you do this sincerely, then you will be successful.
750807mw.tor Conversations
Prabhupada: So in my absence you read the books. What I talk, I have written in the books. That’s all.
Indian Man (2): Personally, we think more greater.
Prabhupada: That’s all right. BUT STILL, YOU CAN ASSOCIATE WITH ME BY READING MY BOOKS.
Adi 1.35 The Spiritual Masters
The SERVICE of the spiritual master IS ESSENTIAL. IF THERE IS NO CHANCE TO SERVE THE SPIRITUAL MASTER DIRECTLY, A DEVOTEE SHOULD SERVE HIM BY REMEMBERING HIS INSTRUCTIONS. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SPIRITUAL MASTER’S INSTRUCTIONS AND THE SPIRITUAL MASTER HIMSELF. IN HIS ABSENCE, THEREFORE, HIS WORDS OF DIRECTION SHOULD BE THE PRIDE OF THE DISCIPLE.