Srila Prabhupada: “I am the Spiritual Master of this institution, and ALL the members of the Society, they’re supposed to be MY disciples. They follow the rules and regulations which I ask them to follow, and they are INITIATED BY ME spiritually” – (Srila Prabhupada Radio Interview, 12 March 1968, San Francisco)
Kanistha- and Madhyama-Adhikaris CAN NOT be Diksha Gurus.
By Mahesh Raja
This is a reply to Pratyatosa Dasa who erroneously thinks, that Kanistha- and Madhyama-Adhikaris can become Diksha Gurus, without attaining to the plattform of uttama-adhikari.
To support his conclusion Pratyatosa quotes only half verse of NoI5: “A neophyte Vaisnava or a Vaisnava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples” – but he omits the other half: “but such disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance.
NoI 5 — “In this verse Srila Rupa Gosvami advises the devotee to be intelligent enough to distinguish between the kanistha-adhikari, madhyama-adhikari and uttama-adhikari. The devotee should also know his own position and should not try to imitate a devotee situated on a higher platform. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura has given some practical hints to the effect that an uttama-adhikari Vaisnava can be recognized by his ability to convert many fallen souls to Vaisnavism. One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikari. A neophyte Vaisnava or a Vaisnava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, but such disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master.”
The quote in question: Please note there is NO MENTION of Diksa. BUT it does say INSUFFICENT GUIDANCE this is SIKSA. There ARE siksa disciples also. You are PRESUMING IT IS DIKSA. The quote is NOT saying DIKSA. Furthermore, Diksa as per DEFINATION can NOT be given by contaminated soul. Kansitha is CONTAMINATED soul he can NOT give DIKSA and MADHYAMA is RECEPIENT of DIKSA.
We are NOT talking about FORMALITY 1st and 2nd initiation:
761016iv.cha Conversations
Prabhupada: Well, initiation or no initiation, first thing is knowledge. (break) …knowledge. Initiation is formality. Just like you go to a school for knowledge, and admission is formality. That is not very important thing.
What we are taking about is when the RECEPIENT of DIKSA WHO IS MADHYAMA ADHIKARI has got SPIRITUAL INITIATION. Krsna is TRANSFERED in the HEART of MADHYAMA adhikari FROM Uttama Adhikari. (Divya janana HRDAYA Prokasito). AT THIS POINT – THE SINS ARE VANQUISHED. HIS RELATIONSHIP IS REVEALED (dasya, sakhya,vatsalya or madhurya). He relishes the mellows (RASAS) of devotional service in either servant,friend etc. This is WHY diksa is so important. He CAN SEE Krsna and his SVARUPA (constitutional position is REVEALED to him) IN HIS HEART. (spiritual televison in heart)
Only a MAHA BHAGAVATA can give THIS DIKSA. WHY? Because a MAHABHAGAVATA carries Krsna in his heart.
SB 10.2.18 P Prayers by the Demigods for Lord Krsna in the Womb
As indicated here by the word manastah, the Supreme Personality of Godhead was transferred from the core of Vasudeva’s mind or heart to the core of the heart of Devaki. We should note carefully that the Lord was transferred to Devaki not by the ordinary way for a human being, but by diksa, initiation. Thus the importance of initiation is mentioned here. Unless one is initiated by the right person, who always carries within his heart the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one cannot acquire the power to carry the Supreme Godhead within the core of one’s own heart.
Now we will study what Diksa is because we want to determine if Kanistha or Madhyama can give Diksa.
Madhya 15.108 The Lord Accepts Prasada at the House of Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya
Srila Jiva Gosvami explains diksa in his Bhakti-sandarbha (283):
divyam jnanam yato dadyat / kuryat papasya sanksayam
tasmad dikseti sa prokta / desikais tattva-kovidaih
“Diksa is the process by which one can awaken his transcendental knowledge and vanquish all reactions caused by sinful activity. A person expert in the study of the revealed scriptures knows this process as diksa.”
Madhya 4.111 Sri Madhavendra Puri’ s Devotional Service
Diksa actually means initiating a disciple with transcendental knowledge by which he becomes freed from all material contamination.
BUT since Kanistha adhikari (QUALIFIED Brahmana) is HIMSELF contaminated HOW CAN HE GIVE DIKSA to another WHO becomes freed from ALL material contamination. This is completely illogical!
Bg 7.14 P Knowledge of the Absolute
Another meaning of guna is rope; it is to be understood that the conditioned soul is tightly tied by the ropes of illusion. A man bound by the hands and feet cannot free himself–he must be helped by a person who is unbound. Because the bound cannot help the bound, the rescuer must be liberated. Therefore, only Lord Krsna, or His bona fide representative the spiritual master, can release the conditioned soul.
SB 9.19.25 P King Yayati Achieves Liberation
The word vidhuta, meaning “cleansed,” is very significant. Everyone in this material world is contaminated (karanam guna-sango ‘sya). Because we are in a material condition, we are contaminated either by sattva-guna, by rajo-guna or by tamo-guna. Even if one becomes a qualified brahmana in the mode of goodness (sattva-guna), he is still materially contaminated. One must come to the platform of suddha-sattva, transcending the sattva-guna.
770214r2.may Conversations
Prabhupada: Vaisnava is not so easy. The varnasrama-dharma should be established to become a Vaisnava. It is not so easy to become Vaisnava.
Hari-sauri: No, it’s not a cheap thing.
Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore this should be made. Vaisnava, to become Vaisnava, is not so easy. If Vaisnava, to become Vaisnava is so easy, why so many fall down, fall down? It is not easy. The sannyasa is for the highest qualified brahmana. And simply by dressing like a Vaisnava, that is… fall down.
Hari-sauri: So the varnasrama system is like for the kanisthas, Kanistha-adhikari.
Prabhupada: Kanistha?
Hari-sauri: When one is only on the platform of neophyte.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Kanistha-adhikari, yes.
Hari-sauri: Varnasrama system is beneficial.
Prabhupada: Kanistha-adhikari means he must be a brahmana. That is kanistha-adhikari. The spiritual life, kanistha-adhikari, means he must be a qualified brahmana. That is kanistha. What is esteemed as very high position in the material world, brahmana, that is kanistha-adhikari.
arcayam eva haraye / pujam yah sraddhayehate
na tad-bhaktesu canyesu / sa bhaktah prakrtah smrtah
The brahmana means from the material stage gradually he is elevated to the spiritual stage. And below the brahmana there is no question of Vaisnava.
Hari-sauri: No question of?
Prabhupada: Vaisnavism.
3) Madhyam adhikari is the RECEPIENT of Diksa so HOW can we say that he gives Diksa? Madhyama adhikari means MIDDLE stage he is at the RECEIVING end of Diksa.
NoI 5
A madhyama-adhikari has received spiritual initiation from the spiritual master and has been fully engaged by him in the transcendental loving service of the Lord. The madhyama-adhikari should be considered to be situated midway in devotional service.Antya 4.192 T Sanatana Gosvami Visits the Lord at Jagannatha Puri
diksa-kale bhakta kare atma-samarpana
sei-kale krsna tare kare atma-samaTRANSLATION
“At the time of initiation, when a devotee fully surrenders unto the service of the Lord, Krsna accepts him to be as good as Himself.
TEXT 193
sei deha kare tara cid-ananda-maya
aprakrta-dehe tanra carana bhajayaTRANSLATION
“When the devotee’s body is thus transformed into spiritual existence, the devotee, in that transcendental body, renders service to the lotus feet of the Lord.
TEXT 194
martyo yada tyakta-samasta-karma
niveditatma vicikirsito me
tadamrtatvam pratipadyamano
mayatma-bhuyaya ca kalpate vaiTRANSLATION
” ‘The living entity who is subjected to birth and death, when he gives up all material activities dedicating his life to Me for executing My order, and thus acts according to My direction, at that time he reaches the platform of immortality, and becomes fit to enjoy the spiritual bliss of exchange of loving mellows with Me.’
PURPORT
This is a quotation from Srimad-Bhagavatam (11.29.34). At the time of initiation, a devotee gives up all his material conceptions. Therefore, being in touch with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is situated on the transcendental platform. Thus having attained knowledge and the spiritual platform, he always engages in the service of the spiritual body of Krsna. When one is freed from material connections in this way, his body immediately becomes spiritual, and Krsna accepts His service. However, Krsna does not accept anything from a person with a material conception of life. When a devotee no longer has any desire for material sense gratification, in his spiritual identity he engages in the service of the Lord, for his dormant spiritual consciousness awakens. This awakening of spiritual consciousness makes his body spiritual, and thus he becomes fit to render service to the Lord. Karmis may consider the body of a devotee material, but factually it is not, for a devotee has no conception of material enjoyment. If one thinks that the body of a pure devotee is material, he is an offender, for that is a vaisnava-aparadha. In this connection one should consult Srila Sanatana Gosvami’s Brhad-bhagavatamrta (1.3.45 and 2.3.139).
ANTYA 4 TEXT 193
“When the devotee’s body is thus transformed into spiritual existence, the devotee, in that transcendental body, renders service to the lotus feet of the Lord.
Bg 4.19 T Transcendental Knowledge
yasya sarve samarambhah
kama-sankalpa-varjitah
jnanagni-dagdha-karmanam
tam ahuh panditam budhahTRANSLATION
One is understood to be in full knowledge whose every act is devoid of desire for sense gratification. He is said by sages to be a worker whose fruitive action is burned up by the fire of perfect knowledge.
PURPORT
Only a person in full knowledge can understand the activities of a person in Krsna consciousness. Because the person in Krsna consciousness is devoid of all kinds of sense-gratificatory propensities, it is to be understood that he has burned up the reactions of his work by *perfect knowledge of his constitutional position as the eternal servitor* of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He is actually learned who has attained to such perfection of knowledge. Development of this knowledge of the eternal servitorship of the Lord is compared to fire. Such a fire, once kindled, can burn up all kinds of reactions to work.
Srila Prabhupada does NOT say that Madhyama Adhikari or Kanistha adhikaris are Diksa guru in the paragraph (NOI 5). So NOBODY should PRESUME they are diksa guru. Insufficent guidance means INSTRUCTION (SIKSA). The quote is NOT talking about DIKSA.
Now, ANYONE who says GBC can authorize Mahabhagavatas to give DIKSA is a MADMAN. There is BIG difference between FORMALITY initiation (1st and 2nd initiation) AND the DIKSA given to MADHAYAM adhikari by the Mahabhagavata.
Note: If you want Krsna televised (DIKSA) in your heart – you can ONLY get that from MAHA BHAGAVATA (our beloved Srila Prabhupada) by chanting OFFENCELESS. And that is available at MADHYAMA adhikari stage.
SB 2.9.35 P Answers by Citing the Lord’ s Version
Therefore, although He is present in every atom, the Supreme Personality of Godhead may not be visible to the dry speculators; still the mystery is unfolded before the eyes of the pure devotees because their eyes are anointed with love of Godhead. And this love of Godhead can be attained only by the practice of transcendental loving service of the Lord, and nothing else. The vision of the devotees is not ordinary; it is purified by the process of devotional service. In other words, as the universal elements are both within and without, similarly the Lord’s name, form, quality, pastimes, entourage, etc., as they are described in the revealed scriptures or as performed in the Vaikunthalokas, far, far beyond the material cosmic manifestation, are factually being televised in the heart of the devotee. The man with a poor fund of knowledge cannot understand, although by material science one can see things far away by means of television. Factually, the spiritually developed person is able to have the television of the kingdom of God always reflected within his heart. That is the mystery of knowledge of the Personality of Godhead.
LCFL Life Comes From Life
Srila Prabhupada. But there are better telephones that they do not know about. In Bhagavad-gita, Sanjaya demonstrated this when he was sitting with his master, Dhrtarastra, and relating all the affairs that were taking place far away on the Battlefield of Kuruksetra. Sanjaya’s vision was actually greater than the telephone. It was mystic television. It was television within the heart, for he was sitting in a room far from the battlefield and still seeing everything that was occurring there. In Bhagavad-gita, Dhrtarastra inquired of Sanjaya, “How are my sons and nephews? What are they doing?” Then Sanjaya described how Duryodhana was going to Dronacarya, what Dronacarya was speaking, how Duryodhana was replying, and so on. Even though these activities were too far away to be seen by ordinary eyes, Sanjaya could see and describe them through his mystic power. That is real science.
KB 80 The Meeting of Lord Krsna with Sudama Brahmana
“If a man is sufficiently educated in student life under the guidance of a proper teacher, then his life becomes successful in the future. He can very easily cross over the ocean of nescience, and he is not subjected to the influence of illusory energy. My dear friend, everyone should consider his father to be his first teacher because by the mercy of one’s father one gets this body. The father is therefore the natural spiritual master. Our next spiritual master is he who initiates us into transcendental knowledge, and he is to be worshiped as much as I am. The spiritual master may be more than one. The spiritual master who instructs the disciples about spiritual matters is called siksa-guru, and the spiritual master who initiates the disciple is called diksa-guru. Both of them are My representatives. There may be many spiritual masters who instruct, but the initiator spiritual master is one.
Whereas Srila Prabhupada has given the Ritvik system (9TH JULY 1977) FORMALITIES of 1st and 2nd initiation can be done by others BUT it MUST UNDERSTOOD THE -ONE- INITATOR IS SRILA PRABHUPADA.
ys mahesh
——–
From: Pratyatosa
To: Mahesh Raja
Date: 25 July, 2010
Dear Mahesh Prabhu, Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
1. The Nectar of Instruction , verse 5 purport states: “A neophyte Vaisnava or a Vaisnava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, …” < http://bit.ly/9S3Wio >.
2. Srila Prabhupada authorized the ISKCON GBC body to act on his behalf. Therefore they have been authorized by Srila Prabhupada to authorize diksa gurus in accordance with the above quoted purport. (WHAT?)
3. But what about the July 9th letter, you may ask? While it’s true that the ISKCON GBC has thus far chosen to ignore the July 9th, 1977 letter, such ignoring of Srila Prabhupada’s written, signed documents is not without precedent. They have been ignoring the voting provision of the DOM ever since 1970. Srila Prabhupada had 7 years to declare the GBC to be bogus for their obvious negligence, but he never did. However, Srila Prabhupada’s managerial decisions for ISKCON cannot be ignored forever, even by the GBC. The longer that the GBC men put off full compliance with Srila Prabhupada’s orders, the more that they are going to have to suffer, and the more that Srila Prabhupada’s beloved Hare Krishna Movement will be unnecessarily stymied.
For one to promote such easily defeated arguments in the name of the ritviks is simply an embarrassment to the ritviks.
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
———
Reply to Pratyatosa Dasa by Mahesh:
EVEN accepting YOUR argument – you say “IF they are AUTHORISED”.
NO they are NOT authorised AT ALL. Here is the PROOF that ONLY MAHABHAGAVAT is AUTHORISED:
Madhya 24.330 The Sixty-One Explanations of the Atmarama Verse
maha-bhagavata-srestho / brahmano vai gurur nrnam
sarvesam eva lokanam / asau pujyo yatha harih
The guru MUST be situated on the TOPMOST platform of devotional service. There are three classes of devotees, and the guru MUST be accepted from the TOPMOST class .
NoD 8 Offenses to Be Avoided
The offenses against the chanting of the holy name are as follows: (3) To disobey the orders of the spiritual master.
For Kanistha or Madhyama adhikari to go against THIS instruction is they have ZERO spiritual life – finnished!
CRYSTAL CLEAR – TRANSPARENT INSTRUCTION.
This is Srila Prabhupada who has stated THIS. With the authority of Caitanya Caritamrta. Do you accept it NOW?
ys mahesh
———-
From: Ameyatma das
To: Pratyatosa das
Date: July 26, 2010
I am short on time, and will most likely only make this one post on this. I am jumping in the middle of an on-going argument, but, what i saw was Pratyatosh quote from NOI that :
” A neophyte Vaisnava or a Vaisnava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, this is not really a quote, it is a partial quote at best.
The entire purport is explaining that one must take association and shelter of the Uttama Adhikari. And just reading one sentence before, the full sentence quoted and the sentence after gives a whole other meaning. ” One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikari . A neophyte Vai??ava or a Vai??ava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples , but such disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master.
I do not agree with your rash statement that Mahesh is snow-jobbing… in fact, i really question where you are at…
In a preceeding paragraph Srla Prabhupad also said : ” Indeed, the advanced uttama-adhikari Vaisnava devotee should be accepted as a spiritual master.” As I said, the entire purport drives one to the conclusion of only taking shelter and association of the Uttama Adhikari.
Srila Prabhupad says that one should not become a spiritual master unless he become uttama-adhikari. Then, he follows this immediately by saying that a Neophyte on the INTERMEDIATE platform CAN also accept disciples, BUT…. such disciples must be on the SAME plaform AND they cannot advance very well toward the Ultimate Goal of life under his INSUFFICIENT guidance.
Analyze this further. From the person accepting the disciples…. Prabhupad clearly states that no one should accept disciples until he attains to the Uttama Adhikari platform.
So, anyone who has NOT attained the highest perfectional stage, and yet presents himself as Guru is right out of the bag already acting AGAINST the instructions of Srila Prabhupad. Then Prabhupad says that a Neophyte CAN accept disciples, BUT… This word “CAN” means just that. A neophyte Can, but, not without consequences for those who accept him as their guide. Before we go further, note the contradictory words Prabhupad uses… He first calls this person who CAN take disciples as a NEOPHYTE, but, then clarifies just what sort of Neophyte he is speaking of. A neophyte on the INTERMEDIATE Platform. In this purport Srila Prabhupad was speaking of 3 stages, a Kanishtha Adhikari, Madyama Adhikari and Uttama Adhikari. Generally when Srila Prabhupad uses the word Neophyte he would be referring to the Kanistha platform, but, here he obviously is not. Here he explicitly qualifies this neophyte as one on the Intermediate platform. Previously in that same purport Srila Prabhupad used the English word Intermediate for the Sanskirt word Madhyama. The actual meaning of the word Madhyam is Middle or Intermediate. Srila Prabhupad is not meaning Kanistha, but explicitly states Intermediate, or Madhyam- Middle – platform. But, why is such person called NEOPHYTE? Because, they are not yet on the highest level. AND, they are engaging in activities which are strongly discouraged.
Srila Prabhupad had just said, prior to the quote in question, that: ” However, one should not imitate the behavior of an advanced devotee or maha-bhagavata without being self-realized, for by such imitation one will eventually become degraded .” Then he says that one should not become guru unless one is Uttama Adhikari. Thus, someone who is on the Intermediate level, and takes disciples, he is, in fact, trying to Imitate the Behavior of the Maha Bhagavat, or Uttama Adhikari. By such IMITATION one will eventually become DEGRADED. Thus, someone who is one the Middle platform who takes disciples is, in effect, trying to IMITATE the Maha Bhagavat, thus, even though that devotee is on the Intermediate platform, he is actually a NEOPHYTE. And, by his actions of IMITATING the real MahaBhagavat, he will eventually become Degraded.
This is Precisely what all of us have been witnessing for the past 33 years. One Neophyte Madhyam after another trying to Imitate SP and in the end, becoming degraded.
Still, he CAN take disciples, BUT, the disciples should be on the SAME Platform. This is another interesting comment. Previously in the purport Srila Prabhupad states that one can rise to the Middle platform only after taking initiation. Then, how can one be on the SAME intermediary level to take shelter of another intermediate devotee? Thus, is this section speaking of Diksha or Siksha only???? If one has not already taken diksha, then one cannot be on the Intermediary platform. But, Prabhupad says the Intermediate devotee ‘can’ take disciples, but, they must be on the Same Intermediate level first…. then he must not be referring to Diksha guru, but Siksha guru… and giving their siksha to devotes who are already initiated or on the middle platform. Even IF we are speaking of Diksha, still, the understanding i get from this purport, as a whole, is that one should ONLY seek association, guidance (siksha) and DIKSHA from the Uttama Adhikari, even though a Neophyte Madhyama ‘can’ take disciples, it is NOT at all advised, or desired. They will more or less be stuck at that level….
In conclusion, Srila Prabhupad says, clearly, Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master.
I find that simply taking a partial quote that a neophyte madhyama ‘can’ accept disciples without surrounding that partial quote with the full explanation is simply misleading others. It is irresponsible and comes under the Cheating tendency. NO ONE should ever encourage anyone that they ‘can’ take initiation from anyone less than Uttama Adhikari. That is exactly the conclusion Srila Prabhupad explicitly states in this purport. No Where in the whole purport is he encouraging that one can take from less then highest devotee. He discourages it. Thus, to follow his guidance means that one should only do the same, and only encourage others that they should only take shelter association and guidance from the Uttama Adhikari. Period.
We must preach the TRUTH boldly. Those who are taking up the position of Guru who are NOT on the Uttama platform are simply NEOPHYTES who are trying to IMITATE the Maha Bhagavat. Srila Prabhupad clearly states that the fate of these imitators is they will eventually become degraded. This is the Truth of the matter. And, that is the Truth that has been Absent in ISKCON for 33 long years.
Pratyatosh speaks of the ‘gbc’ as being entrusted with the duty of Representing Srila Prabhupad.
Actually, from the DOM to his Last Will, Srila Prabhupad called them EXECUTORS of his instructions. Executors of the will of HDG. They are to EXECUTE his instructions, Execute his orders. That is their Dharma, their constitutional position. Thus, when they cease to execute his order, they have CEASED being his authorized GBC representatives.
From the very beginning even before Srila Prabhupad departed we have raw direct experience of these men disobeying SP’s instructions. They lost their qualifications to be called GBC many years ago. The most DAMNING evidence that they have not executed Srila Prabhupad instructions is the 1974 Topmost Urgency document, which just surfaced and became known to us just a few short years ago. This is a clear, written decree, signed with witnesses, where Srila Prabhupad gave a clearly defined written order, simple order, to take that very document and amend all of ISKCON’s corporations with that simple document. That he said, was a TOPMOST URGENT order given by him in writing, with signature, stating it was to be done IMMEDIATELY. It was never properly and fully executed by those men who claimed to be the gbc.
That, is the starting place where a thorough investigation must be undertaken by unbiased brahamans to find out WHY it was not followed, and who did not follow it, and why, how and who kept this document secret all those years.
Dont’ talk to me about GBCuntil this issue is resolved. Those who do NOT execute SP’s instructions are, by Prabhupad’s own definition of the term, NOT GBC. So far, the current so-called gbc have not shown One Speck of interest to finally EXECUTE this still standing Written Order by SP. Rather, they have been meeting and planning for years how to nulify this order, to write their own defiant amendments, intending to totally make the order by SP null and void. This is not the definition of GBC, who are defined by SP to be EXECUTORS of his instructions.
This 1974 decree is the key. It is the litmus test for determining if one is a real GBC or not. Any one who proclaims themselves GBC who claims that this decree is not to be executed is simply a cheater. A rogue and rascal, and those cheaters should be removed from Srila Prabhupad’s mission and a new and REAL GBC be elected to replace them, A REAL GBC are those men who give their Lives, cent-per-cent, to EXECUTE SP’s instructions. The 1974 Topmost Urgency Decree was left by SP and Krishna as a means to re-correct his mission, when the proper time comes. All we can do is pray that the time will come within our lifetime, but, it will come, eventually.
ys ameyatma das
———-
“….A diseased person cannot cure himself. He must be under the care of a physician. Just as the anger of a diseased person is pardonable, the improper behaviour of the ignorant should also be excused. This attitude is known as mercy. The ignorant have many misconceptions, such as faith in karma-kanda, occasional inclination toward jnana, worshiping the Deity with ulterior motives, faith in yoga, indifference toward the association of pure Vaisnavas, attachment to varnasrama, and many other things. By association, mercy and good instructions, these misconceptions can be dispelled and the kanistha-adhikari can quickly become a madhyama-adhikari suddha-bhakta.”
Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura
Jaiva Dharma
Pratiatosa say:
“2. Srila Prabhupada authorized the ISKCON GBC body to act on his behalf. Therefore they have been authorized by Srila Prabhupada to authorize diksa gurus in accordance with the above quoted purport. (WHAT?)”
Then if Srila Prabhupada authorize The ISKCON GBC to act on His behalf, they can give diksa on His behalf, Not Guru Diksa on His behalf.
To say that MAHABHAGAVATA (DIKSA GURU) is under the jurisdiction of CONDITIONED souls of the bogus GBC is LUDICROUS.
GBC is MANAGING AUTHORITY. They have to MANAGE the INSTITUTION on BEHALF of Srila Prabhupada the DIKSA GURU. As per ORDER of Srila Prabhupada July 9th 1977 the disciples are Srila Prabhupada’s the INITIATING Guru.
Pratyatosa das is COMPROMISED. He has his wife Urmila dasi and his family at the Mayapur. So he speaks on behalf of the Mayapur gang as they maintain them. MONEY MONEY MONEY. Urmila wants to be GURU. So they want to INVENT that CONDITIONED souls GBC can authorize Diksa gurus. They are BOGUS!
Lets look at the following:
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=43390#comment-32758
“We’ve seen in the past that sometimes spiritual leaders HAVE DIFFICULTIES, and their disciples are not prepared to cope with it,” he says. “So we want to prepare all disciples in the future. We particularly emphasize that if our diksa guru has difficulty, we always have our connection with Srila Prabhupada, Lord Krishna, ISKCON, and our siksa gurus.”
1) They are watering down the position of Diksa guru BECAUSE their BOGUS Diksa gurus are in the category of “HAVE DIFFICULTIES” they are Rapists gurus, Murderer gurus, Crook gurus, Embezzeler gurus, Homosex gurus, Srila Prabhupada Poison giver gurus, Peadophile gurus, Ignorant gurus, Womaniser gurus, Rogue gurus, Most dangerous element gurus, Voted-in by 2\3 majority gurus by BOGUS GBC, Rubber-stamped gurus,Conditioned soul gurus,SEX-yasi gurus, SIN-yasi gurus, MAD men gurus.
2) The Diksa guru is Mahabhagavata he has NO DIFFICULTY:
SB 4.24.20 P Chanting the Song Sung by Lord Siva
This material world is often described as an ocean of nescience. In such an ocean, everything is agitated. The mind of a great devotee is also like an ocean or a very large lake, but there is no agitation. As stated in Bhagavad-gita (2.41): vyavasayatmika buddhir ekeha kuru-nandana. THOSE WHO ARE FIXED IN THE SERVICE OF THE LORD ARE NOT AGITATED BY ANYTHING. IT IS ALSO STATED IN BHAGAVAD-GITA (6.22): YASMIN STHITO NA DUHKHENA GURUNAPI VICALYATE. EVEN IF HE SUFFERS SOME REVERSALS IN LIFE, A DEVOTEE IS NEVER AGITATED. THEREFORE WHOEVER TAKES SHELTER OF A GREAT SOUL OR A GREAT DEVOTEE BECOMES PACIFIED. In the Caitanya-caritamrta (Madhya 19.149) it is stated: krsna-bhakta–niskama, ataeva ‘santa.’ A devotee of Lord Krsna is always peaceful because he has no desire, whereas the yogis, karmis and jnanis have so many desires to fulfill. One may argue that the devotees have desires, for they wish to go home, back to Godhead, but such a desire does not agitate the mind. Although he wishes to go back to Godhead, a devotee is satisfied in any condition of life. Consequently, the word mahan-manah is used in this verse to indicate that the reservoir of water was as calm and quiet as the mind of a great devotee.
SB 6.12.19 P Vrtrasura’ s Glorious Death
As stated in Bhagavad-gita (6.22):
yam labdhva caparam labham
manyate nadhikam tatah
yasmin sthito na duhkhena
gurunapi vicalyate
“ESTABLISHED IN KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS, ONE NEVER DEPARTS FROM THE TRUTH, AND UPON GAINING THIS HE THINKS THERE IS NO GREATER GAIN. BEING SITUATED IN SUCH A POSITION, ONE IS NEVER SHAKEN, EVEN IN THE MIDST OF THE GREATEST DIFFICULTY.” AN UNALLOYED DEVOTEE IS NEVER DISTURBED BY ANY KIND OF TRYING CIRCUMSTANCE.
SB 10.2.24 P Prayers by the Demigods for Lord Krsna in the Womb
Although Kamsa was always absorbed in thoughts of Hari, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he was not happy. A devotee, however, whether sitting on a throne or beneath a tree, is always happy. Srila Rupa Gosvami resigned from office as a government minister to sit beneath a tree, yet he was happy. Tyaktva turnam asesa-mandalapati-srenim sada tucchavat (Sad-gosvamy-astaka 4). He did not care for his comfortable position as minister; he was happy even beneath a tree in Vrndavana, favorably serving the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is the difference between a devotee and a nondevotee. For a nondevotee, the world is full of problems, whereas for a devotee the entire world is full of happiness.
visvam purna-sukhayate vidhi-mahendradis ca kitayate
yat-karunya-kataksa-vaibhavavatam tam gauram eva stumah
(Caitanya-candramrta 95)
This comfortable position of a devotee can be established by the mercy of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu. YASMIN STHITO NA DUHKHENA GURUNAPI VICALYATE (BG. 6.22). EVEN WHEN A DEVOTEE IS SUPERFICIALLY PUT INTO GREAT DIFFICULTY, HE IS NEVER DISTURBED.
Madhya 22.71 The Process of Devotional Service
There is NO POSSIBILITY THAT A FIRST-CLASS DEVOTEE WILL FALL DOWN, even though he may mix with nondevotees to preach.
FISKCON GBC and bogus ”gurus”are neither Madhyam nor Kanistha Adhikari because they are miscreants who only pay some ”lip service”, and that is the only service they give to Srila Prabhupada. Most Kanistha and Madhyam devotees have either been kicked out of ISKCON or chose to distance themselves from an organization which is completely corrupt, mendacious and superficial (and no longer represents the original teachings of His Divine Grace)
FISKCON is just a ”cult franchise” of criminals which misrepresents ALL OF THE PREVIOUS ACHARYAS of The Sri Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya who have only one desire, which is to screw money from rich meat eating’ degenerate Hindus, get their photos taken with ”celebrity flunky’s and arsehole politicians”.
To say that these theives, boy buggerers, mayavadi’s, murderers, liars and scumbags are on ”some sort of middle platform of spiritual enlightenment” is so absurd it is laughable!
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
The RELATIONSHIP between Gopal Bhatt, Pratyatosa —–AND MAYAPUR CONNECTION:
Pratyatosa is “replying” to Gopal Bhatt:
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=37784
!!!subject to GBC approval on an individual basis!!!
7. Allow the “gurus” to request that their “guruship” positions be switched to ritviks, subject to GBC approval on an individual basis.
In my humble opinion, if the above 9 points were actually carried out by the GBC body, it would satisfy most of the Ritviks and most of the ISKCONites as well.
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Gopal Bhatt is “The Strategic Planning Network, HEADED BY Gopal Bhatta das”
http://www.ramaiswami.com/category/india/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Note: Pratyatosa and Gopal Bhatt does NOT write here anymore. WHY? — Go figure!
Have you heard the news? According to the Sampradaya Sun’s 10th Anniversary editorial:
“The days of pro-Ritvik arguments appearing on the pages of the Sun for the purpose of focusing the debate… gone. That issue is well concluded now and we were glad to be a contributor to the absolute defeat of Ritvik-vada.”
How does it feel to be “absolutely defeated”?
LW thank you very much for sharing the joke that Rocana considers the Ritviks defeated.
Vulture curses a cow to die. Rocana has tried sooooooo hard to make it sound as if “Ritviks” do not exist anymore. BUT—- NOBODY SANE IS CONVINCED. It something like trying to hide the sun. In UK here sometimes the clouds cover the sky and you do not see the sun BUT we KNOW the sun is THERE because there is broad daylight. Daylight is the PROOF of sun. So just because no “Ritviks” write to HIS website anymore because it is CLOUDED by Rocana he likes to give the impression they are all dead.
All childish play. NOBODY is convinced of his arguments as they have READ THIS SITE and also the internet where MANY devotees are preaching about Ritvik —ALL THE TIME.
Rocana is VERY funny. VERY VERRRRY FUNNY.
His idea of something called “IT” (AND——NOBODY KNOWS WHAT THAT “IT” IS—– EXCEPT ROCANA) will appear and all can surrender to that “IT” has just not taken-off. Even he does NOT KNOW the name of that “IT” or what it looks like. NO DESCRIPTION. ZERO! And—– according to Rocana that “IT” is supposed to replace Srila Prabhupada as Diksa guru. Cool!
I was talking to someone sometime back and he was laughing at Rocana he said to me “he is soooo VAGUE”
Variety is the spice of life. We get good laugh.
Here are some of our papers – we hope he will be able to find a someone’s shoulder to cry on after reading:
Reply to Rocana Dasa on his COMPLETE MISUNDERSTANDING of BOTH the Guru and Ritvik Issue
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=41135#more-41135
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=4118#comment-31193
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Reply to Nimai Pandit Prabhu and Rocana das
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=34065
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Srila Prabhupada IS Diksa Guru
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=43094#more-43094
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This paper is ALSO a Reply to Rocana.
Only Maha-Bhagavata is Diksa Guru
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=41422#more-41422
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Physically Present Diksa Guru
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=42978#comment-31641
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=42978#comment-31834
Rochana knows that he has to ”pucker up” (if he wants to stay on the GBC pay-roll) and mimic the wishes of the GBC because GBC goofballs like nothing better than ”hickeys” all over their ‘rear ends’!
Just like a parrot he has to imitate the words of his owner or he won’t get a cracker!
Mahesh Raja Prabhu states: ” Rocana is VERY funny. VERY VERRRRY FUNNY.
”
Rocan is also VERY intelligent. VERY VERRRRY INTELLIGENT.
He is so intelligent that on the one hand he can promote Srila Prabhupada on his website, and on the other hand, he can “absolutely defeat” Srila Prabhupada’s orders and instructions. How can anyone be so incredibly intelligent?
Rocan is “absolutely” amazing!
LW Rocana is INTELLIGENT I agree. After the GBC CROOKS left him dangling 1986 ? (he was part and parcel of their Guru Reform 1986) – He KNEW that to GET BACK his PAYROLL from the BOGUS GBC he had to CREATE a WEBSITE and THEN he invited ALL the OPPOSITION : Ritvik—- and BARTER this to the BOGUS GBC. He KNEW that the MOST FORMIDABLE OPPOSITION is the RITVIK. BOGUS GBC and their BOGUS guru manufacture machinery would be FINISHED if they did not pay him. THIS is HOW the PAYROLL business works. In order that the PAYMASTERS would be PLEASED he removed the Ritviks from writing on his site. In EXCHANGE he got his MONEY. Good business deal. No doubt – he IS Intelligent.
“If you concoct, ‘I am more intelligent than my Guru,’ ‘I can make additions and alterations,’ then you are finished.”
— Srila Prabhupada lecture, July 12, 1975, Philadelphia
Thank-you LW that quote: is very appropriate:
“If you concoct, ‘I am more intelligent than my Guru,’ ‘I can make additions and alterations,’ then you are finished.”
— Srila Prabhupada lecture, July 12, 1975, Philadelphia
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What is happening is that in REALITY Rocana and company want to DENY Srila Prabhupada for a few $$$ ( now—OVER age 60 PLUS—so— just NEAR DOORSTEP of death) by REJECTING Srila Prabhupada’s Ritvik ORDER means REJECTING Srila Prabhupada. What a WASTE of human life form!!!! AND misleading others the result is :
SB 6.7.14 Indra Offends His Spiritual Master, Brhaspati.
A stone boat would be unable to float and would sink in the water with its passengers. SIMILARLY, THOSE WHO MISLEAD PEOPLE GO TO HELL, AND THEIR FOLLOWERS GO WITH THEM.
Mahesh Raja . “To say that MAHABHAGAVAT (DIKSA GURU) is under the jurisdiction of CONDITIONED souls of the bogus GBC is LUDICROUS”.
Mahesh Raja is making a very good point here, and an essential one.
So we can see that THIS VERY WEBSITE is actually fulfilling the function of Madhyam because it is always pointing the way to His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada as SOLE Diksa Guru of ISKCON and EXPOSING the Kali Chela GBC bogus ”guru” pretenders. Even if one is Kanistha by following the present Diksa Guru Acharya one can very quickly come to the platform of Madhyam by which one can easily RECOGNIZE the multitudes of bogus, counterfeit, reprobates.
By entertaining the notion that GBC rascals and bogus “guru” camels and asses are ”hovering on some sort of intermediate level” is a COMPLETE AND UTTER NONSENSE which is clandestinely cultivated by persons such as our friend George Smith.
That these GBC and bogus ”gurus” do not follow the instructions of Srila Prabhupada and DENY his proper status as SOLE Diksa Guru of ISKCON IS ONLY GLARINGLY OBVIOUS DUE TO THEIR BOGUS GURU “POSITION”, UNAUTHORIZED BOOK CHANGES, MAYAVADA INFLUENCES, MENDACIOUS MONEY SCREWING, ABUSE OF DEVOTEES AND AN INSATIABLE GREED FOR POWER AND POSITION.
This website is ”taking the fight” to these charlatans because when you allow yourself to become compromised by institutional fear or the promise of some kind of financial or prestigeous position ”your spiritual life is FINIISHED” and you become a plebeian, gutless hypocrite and political pawn ”bought and sold” just like some unwanted superfluous commodity in the marketplace.
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
Sudarsana Das Vanacari: FISKCON is just a ”cult franchise” of criminals which misrepresents ALL OF THE PREVIOUS ACHARYAS of The Sri Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya who have only one desire, which is to screw money from rich meat eating’ degenerate Hindus, get their photos taken with ”celebrity flunky’s and arsehole politicians”.
To say that these theives, boy buggerers, mayavadi’s, murderers, liars and scumbags are on ”some sort of middle platform of spiritual enlightenment” is so absurd it is laughable!
Mahesh: Well said! Sudarsana Prabhu these people they are NOT devotees. They are in the DRESS of devotee. They are what Srila Prabhupada calls *TRANSCENDENTAL FRAUD* just like the Gaudiya Math camp they show the deity for business and live off immoral earnings. NOW these people they USE Srila Prabhupada and the Temple Deities as a FRONT to SCREW MONEY for living a life of LUXURY: FREE SLAVERY (so-called disciples) and MONEY SCREWING:
That is transcendental fraud
730921r2.bom
Prabhupāda: Yes, we should deal with them so that they may develop their Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you simply make it a point, somehow or other take some money from them and let them go to hell, that is not… That is transcendental fraud. What do you think, Gargamuni?
Gargamuni: Yes. We have to preach. (S.P. laughs)
Prabhupāda: Yes. If by the dress of sannyāsī, you take some money and eat and sleep, then it is transcendental fraud. (SP laughs) (Hindi) Just like others are toiling, and we are getting money by some dress. That’s all. They are getting money by laboring hard, and we are getting money… In India, mostly the sannyāsīs, they do that. The priests also, they do that. This is our profession, just… My Guru Mahārāja said that ṭhākura dekhiye pāya rasta karache, rastaye ‘yandiya jīvika badram karam bhari (?). Instead of earning livelihood by showing the Deity in the temple, it is better to take the profession of a sweeper in the street and live honestly. He said like that. The sweeper is working hard toiling and getting some money and living. This is honest living. But just like in Vṛndāvana, all the Goswamis. They have got their Deity. People are coming, contributing. Typical example, Gauracānda Goswami. Ṭhākura dekhiye paisa rasta. (?) All the sevaites, they are meant for… Our Kunja Babu also planned like that. He thought, “By cheating all the God-brothers, I have got now Caitanya Maṭha. And people will come to see Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s birthplace, and I will get good income. And it will be distributed amongst my brothers and sons and myself. That’s all.” That is his scheme.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Perfect material plan.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is another way of earning money. And he was always after Guru Mahārāja only for this purpose. Guru Mahārāja took that “Oh, this man is helping me.” But he had no such plan, to help Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī. He had the plan, “Keep Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī in front, earn money, and put it in my pocket.” That was his very beginning. He was taking money like anything. But he was a good manager. Other God-brothers complained, sannyāsīs. Guru Mahārāja used to say that “Why you are complaining? You cannot reform him, your God-brother? And if I would have to keep expert manager like him, I would have to pay something. Suppose he is taking something, why do you grudge?” (Prabhupāda laughing) He would say like that. So nobody could say anything. But after the demise, everything burst out. “Kunja Babu must be driven out.” That was the whole plan of Gauḍīya Maṭha breakdown. The grudge was against Kunja Babu.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who is Kunja Babu?
Prabhupāda: That Tīrtha Mahārāja. His name is Kunja Vihari Sar. So that was boiling in everyone’s heart. So as soon as Guru Mahārāja passed away, so that burst out. And the whole plan was how to get out this Kunja Babu.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not how to preach.
Prabhupāda: No. This was the cause of breakdown. This was suppressed by Guru Mahārāja under his influence, but the rebellious was there during his lifetime. And it burst into… Therefore he advised that “You make a governing body and Kunja Babu should be allowed to remain manager.” This was directly spoken. He never asked anybody to become ācārya. He asked that “You form a governing body of twelve men and go on preaching, and Kunja Babu may be allowed to remain manager during his lifetime.” He never said that Kunja Babu should be ācārya. None, none of them were advised by Guru Mahārāja to become ācārya. His idea was “Let them manage; then whoever will be actual qualified for becoming ācārya, they will elect. Why I should enforce upon them?” That was his plan. “Let them manage by strong governing body, as it is going on. Then ācārya will come by his qualifications.” But they wanted that… Because at heart, they were, “After demise of Guru, I shall become ācārya.” “I shall become ācārya.” So all the ācāryas began fight. One side, that Vāsudeva Ācārya and Sar Kunja Babu Ācārya. And Paramānanda, he thought that “Whoever will be powerful, I shall join them.” (laughing) He only thought. But Guru Mahārāja never asked that these three men should be trustees. He wanted governing body. So the rebellion broke out immediately after his passing away. And then fight in the high-court. And Kunja Babu, he is very intelligent man. So from the very beginning he knew that “There will be fight after the demise of Guru Mahārāja. So fight will be in the high-court. So at the expense of Guru Mahārāja, let my brother and sons become attorneys and barrister so I will have not to pay all these things.” It was a planned thing. And that is being done. He was a clerk, it was not in his power to make his brother and sons attorneys and barristers. They were all made at the cost of Gauḍīya Maṭha to fight with (indistinct) in favor of Tīrtha Mahārāja. These were the planned things. But I was a rotten gṛhastha. I did not join any one of them. (Prabhupāda laughs) I was rotting in my household life. That’s all. But I was planning how to make, how to make this. That was my desire from the very beginning, since I heard it. But I was never with them, either this party or that party. And Guru Mahārāja also recommended, apnader tasturi tublia thaki bhavan. Takhona (?). “When there will be need, he will do himself. There is no need of living with you. It is better to live apart from you.” When I was recommended by Goswami Mahārāja to live in the Maṭha, that “He is so nice.” Sometimes he recommended. In Bombay, here in this Bombay. That house. Yes. He (Guru Mahārāja) said “Yes, he is very expert. He can do. So it is better to live apart from you. And he will do everything when there is need.” He said. I could not understand. Although I was apart from them, a gṛhastha. In this Bombay I was doing business. (people talking outside)
Note: they have secret Face Book MONEY SCREWING SLAVERY MAKING group that claims to be Srila Prabhupada “disciples” and these demons do NOT want Srila Prabhupada as Diksa guru and the Ritvik system. These MISLEADERS therefore DENY Srila Prabhupada:
Vayasaki Das, Uttama sloka das etc are Anti Ritvik (Anti Prabhupada).
From: XXXXXX
To: XXXXXX
Sent: XXXX 2015, 2:48
Subject: A Demon [sahajia] Speaks !
Uttamasloka Dasa 9:32pm Aug 2
The revised guidelines were that any topics in Srila Prabhupada’s books are open for discussion. The ritvik issue is not in his books. It is in fact, opposed to his books. Should we discuss football scores too.
It seems like there are a lot of “over intelligent” people around these days. But don’t worry. “Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall enter into the kingdom of God.” No one can outsmart God.
One time Prabhupada was talking about one of the bogus swamis and he said, “He thinks that he can cheat God, but one of these days he’ll learn that God can be the greatest cheater of them all.” Krishna will rob them of their material name, fame, opulence, followers and so-called intelligence. “God giveth and God taketh away.” Krishna is not impressed with our word juggelry and “big big talk.” The key is still pure devotion and not smoke and mirrors.
FISKCON GBC and “bogus guru” criminal franchise have a great ‘rapport’ with political leaders (particularly India, USA, and UK) because the worlds political elite are also tyrants and pedophiles, murderers, fascists, liars and theives and have been ‘infiltrated’ by their agents. Madhu Pandit’s ‘cozy’ relationship with Monsanto, Bill Gates (Monsanto Shareholder, Eugenics Advocate and promoter, and ‘Pusher’ of dangerous lethal “Vaccination {extermination} Programs”) the Clintons (Monsanto Shareholders and Pushers) and Narendra Modi (Fascist and traitor of the Indian people) is ‘highly suspect’, TO SAY THE LEAST!
FISKCON’S ‘slave culture’ is the envy of Corporate Predators and their Political, Machiavellian Puppets (who nominate themselves to do their ‘dirty work’), which creates in them a sense of euphoria and invincibility that they can ‘do whatever they like with total impunity’ as they are all ‘well connected and have the same “vision”. This mendacious scenario has been played out time and time again until it reaches a ‘tipping point’, at such time ‘the guillotine is dusted off and it becomes time to ‘STORM THE BASTILE’.
Remember what happened to Nero, Hitler, Caesar and of course Hiranyakashipu. They all thought they were also invincible (and greater than God, Himself) then the ‘floor’ just disappeared beneath them!.
“Those whom God wishes to DESTROY, HE first makes MAD!” (Senaca)
Following such conclusions, the demoniac, who are lost to themselves and who have no intelligence, engage in unbeneficial, horrible works meant to destroy the world.
PURPORT (by Srila Prabhupada)
The demoniac are engaged in activities that will lead the world to destruction. The Lord states here that they are less intelligent. The materialists, who have no concept of God, think that they are advancing. But according to Bhagavad-gītā, they are unintelligent and devoid of all sense. They try to enjoy this material world to the utmost limit and therefore always engage in inventing something for sense gratification. Such materialistic inventions are considered to be advancement of human civilization, but the result is that people grow more and more violent and more and more cruel, cruel to animals and cruel to other human beings. They have no idea how to behave toward one another. Animal killing is very prominent amongst demoniac people. Such people are considered the enemies of the world because ultimately they will invent or create something which will bring destruction to all. Indirectly, this verse anticipates the invention of nuclear weapons, of which the whole world is today very proud. At any moment war may take place, and these atomic weapons may create havoc. Such things are created solely for the destruction of the world, and this is indicated here. Due to godlessness, such weapons are invented in human society; they are not meant for the peace and prosperity of the world.
–Bhagavad-gita As It Is 16.9
I found this in Internet. This quote “Vinasha kale viparith buddhi” is actually from Ramayana.
“Vinasha kale viparith buddhi” means that when one’s doom approaches, then one’s mind, one’s intelligence works perversely.
What we can see is these covert Atheists the AntI Ritvik goons will bring their doom QUICK and closer. After all, Krsna can understand that this people want to go to hell – so Krsna gives intelligence and arranges for them to do most sinful acts so that they can go to hell. They are ALL brought TOGETHER just like at the battle of Kurukshetra Krsna arranged so that these sinful demons come and fight.
730617SB.MAY Lectures
So here it is stated that vamsam kuror vamsa-davagni-nirhrtam. When everything was finished… Krsna knows how to kill the demons, setting fire. Just like you… Some way or other, if there is fire in the forest, automatically, so many trees, so many animals, so many other things, they become devastated, burned into ashes. SO KRSNA, BY THE POLICY OF KRSNA, ALL THE DEMONS WERE BROUGHT TOGETHER IN THE BATTLEFIELD OF KURUKSETRA, AND SET THEM… THE FIRE WAS SET, FIGHTING, AND THEY DIED. When Arjuna was hesitating to fight, Arjuna was at last informed that “Why you are hesitating? It is all My plan. You fight or don’t fight, it doesn’t matter. These people are not going back home. They will die here.” Nimitta-matram bhava savyasacin: “You just become only a nimitta, an immediate cause. EVERYTHING IS ARRANGED. But if you fight, you get the credit. I want to see My devotee gets the credit.
Note: Devotees will be interested in this. Jayadvaita is THE PRIME suspect in giving Poison to Srila Prabhupada. The man is so ENVIOUS that he has been changing Srila Prabhupada’s books to screw-up the movement.
Sattvic dasa:
The program of eliminating Srila Prabhupada from the life of the devotees is in full swing.
THE FOLLOWING STATEMENT FROM JAYADVAITA SWAMI CLEARLY INDICATES THE DIRECTION ISKCON IS TAKING. ACCORDING TO THIS DERANGED STATEMENT THE GURUVASTAKAM IS DIRECTED TO THE CONDITIONED SOULS WHO POSE THEMSELVES AS SPIRITUAL MASTERS WITH THE BLESSINGS OF THE GBC.
WHAT MORE CAN BE SAID? SHAME ON SUCH AN IGNORANT AND INSULTING SO-CALLED DISCIPLE. KALI CHELA DISGUISED AS VAISNAVA TO DESTABILIZE THE MISSION OF SRI CHAITANYA MAHAPRABHU. TOMORROW WE SHALL HAVE HOMOSEXUAL AND LESBIAN GURUS AS WELL IF THIS MODEL OF THINKING IS FOLLOWED.
JAS – Mangala Arati not meant for Srila Prabhupada
“The next thing that disturbs me, sometimes we hear right in the middle of samsara dava “Jaya Prabhupada Jaya -“. What the hell is that? “Samsara dava” is not the Prabhupada song. It’s the guru song. It’s the song offering respect to the spiritual master which doesn’t mean the founder acarya of ISKCON.”
(JAS, Kirtana Standards Seminar, ISKCON Juhu, November 2014)
Mahesh Raja: I found this in internet. This quote “Vinasha kale viparith buddhi” is actually from Ramayana.
”Vinasha kale viparith buddhi” means that when ones doom approaches, then one’s mind, one’s intelligence works perversely.
Jayadvaita must be getting confused. He has little intelligence and already signs of insanity! Probably thinking he’s on a ‘kibbutz’ and everyone should be chanting ”Jaya Israel”
Sudarsana Das Vanacari: Jayadvaita must be getting confused. He has little intelligence and already signs of insanity! Probably thinking he’s on a ‘kibbutz’ and everyone should be chanting ”Jaya Israel”
Mahesh: THAT is good point! ONLY a mad man would think his changed books will be accepted by all. He can NOT even figure that even those who do not accept the Ritvik system are REJECTING his changed books. The result is COLLAPSE of the sale of books—-AND people are LOSING INTEREST in Hare Krsna when they get these changed books. It is a drag – nobody wants these changed books – they are just forced upon others. Some ISKCON folks went to one place and they placed changed Bhagavad Gita’s there so I got a phone call. “What should we do with these changed books? we do not want them”. Even ORDINARY folks have come to know that they are changing Srila Prabhupada’s books.
JAS: “The next thing that disturbs me, sometimes we hear right in the middle of samsara dava ‘Jaya Prabhupada Jaya -‘. What the hell is that? ‘Samsara dava’ is not the Prabhupada song. It’s the guru song. It’s the song offering respect to the spiritual master which doesn’t mean the founder acarya of ISKCON.”
So according to JAS, the following verse refers to “the gurus” and not Srila Prabhupada, not the founder-acarya of ISKCON:
nikuñja-yūno rati-keli-siddhyai
yā yālibhir yuktir apekṣaṇīyā
tatrāti-dākṣyād ati-vallabhasya
vande guroḥ śrī-caraṇāravindam
“The spiritual master is very dear, because he is expert in assisting the gopīs, who at different times make different tasteful arrangements for the perfection of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa’s conjugal loving affairs within the groves of Vṛndāvana. I offer my most humble obeisances unto the lotus feet of such a spiritual master.”
And this man is “editing” Srila Prabhupada’s sacred books?
“What the hell is that?”
“What the hell is that?”
Hare Krsna LW prabhu… the only words I can think of are ‘ENVY OF THE PURE DEVOTEE’!
Yhs, Bal.
“What the hell is that?”
“the only words I can think of are ‘ENVY OF THE PURE DEVOTEE’!”
Yes Prabhu, and isn’t it interesting that he refers to “hell” (narakah)?
“gurusuh narah matih narakah sah”
Sounds like JAS knows what he’s talking about!
JAS cannot contain his seething envy of Srila Prabhupada, and this is manifested (in no small part) in his many condemnations of Srila Prabhupada and his books, the latter of which have been trampled upon, bastardized and changed in the most offensive, unauthorized way!
JAS is a walking corpse, ugly, twisted and deranged consumed with the desire for adoration, and always demanding the respect of others and quick to anger when this is not forthcoming. At the same time he defies the trancendental wishes of the only present Diksa Guru and Acharya (by his own order) His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.
He is a pitiful, pathetic and ‘puffed up’ character who does not understand the supreme position of His Divine Grace, but instead is slowly beying consumed by envy and as such has turned himself into a blood-sucking vampire like Nosferatu!, but will eventually be ‘burnt to dust’ by the BLINDING LIGHT of Srila Prabhupada!
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/08-15/editorials13109.htm
Rocana :Of course, Jayadvaita Swami cuts the profile of a brahmana, as does Dravida. They go out of their way to project this image, and as far as their sadhana practices are concerned, no one has ever criticized them for being slack in that area.
Mahesh: They are NOT Brahmanas. Brahmana is by QUALIFICATIONS.
They LACK honesty. Truthfulness is Brahmana QUALIFICATION:
Madhya 20.59 Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu Instructs Sanatana Gosvami in the Science
PURPORT
This verse is spoken by Prahlada Maharaja in Srimad-Bhagavatam (7.9.10). A brahmana is supposed to be qualified with twelve qualities. As stated in the Mahabharata:
dharmas ca satyam ca damas tapas ca
amatsaryam hris titiksanasuya
yajnas ca danam ca dhrtih srutam ca
vratani vai dvadasa brahmanasya
“A brahmana must be perfectly religious. He MUST be TRUTHFUL, and he must be able to control his senses. He must execute severe austerities, and he must be detached, humble and tolerant. He must not envy anyone, and he must be expert in performing sacrifices and giving whatever he has in charity. He must be fixed in devotional service and expert in the knowledge of the Vedas. These are the twelve qualifications for a brahmana.”
Bhagavad-gita describes the brahminical qualities in this way:
samo damas tapah saucam
ksantir arjavam eva ca
jnanam vijnanam astikyam
brahma-karma svabhava-jam
“Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, HONESTY, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness–these are the qualities by which the brahmanas work.” (Bg. 18.42)
In the Muktaphala-tika, it is said:
samo damas tapah saucam
ksanty-arjava-virakta yah
jnana-vijnana-santosah
satyastikye dvisad gunah
“Mental equilibrium, sense control, austerity, cleanliness, tolerance, simplicity, detachment, theoretical and practical knowledge, satisfaction, TRUTHFULNESS and firm faith in the Vedas are the twelve qualities of a brahmana.
Rocana :Of course, Jayadvaita Swami cuts the profile of a brahmana, as does Dravida. They go out of their way to project this image, and as far as their sadhana practices are concerned, no one has ever criticized them for being slack in that area.
Mahesh: They are ROGUES in DRESS of Brahmanas is more like it. Changing Srila Prabhupada’s books is their HATE for Srila Prabhupada.
IF A MAN IS A THIEF AND IF PEOPLE ARE WARNED THAT HE IS A THIEF, THAT IS TRUTH.
Bg 10.4-5 P The Opulence of the Absolute
Satyam, truthfulness, means that facts should be presented as they are for the benefit of others. Facts should not be misrepresented. According to social conventions, it is said that one can speak the truth only when it is palatable to others. But that is not truthfulness. The truth should be spoken in a straight and forward way, so that others will understand actually what the facts are. IF A MAN IS A THIEF AND IF PEOPLE ARE WARNED THAT HE IS A THIEF, THAT IS TRUTH. ALTHOUGH SOMETIMES THE TRUTH IS UNPALATABLE, ONE SHOULD NOT REFRAIN FROM SPEAKING IT. TRUTHFULNESS DEMANDS THAT THE FACTS BE PRESENTED AS THEY ARE FOR THE BENEFIT OF OTHERS. THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF TRUTH.
Note: If one REALLY wants to SEE HOW Jayadvaita HATES Srila Prabhupada go to this site and watch:
http://www.iskconspiracy.org/
Click on:
ISKCONspiracy part 3 The Book Changes
Mahesh Raja: “He must not envy anyone”
Dear Mahesh prabhu, this pretender is so envious of Srila Prabhupada, that he is forced by the mode of ignorance and compelled by mad passion to not only change the translations, but also rewrite many of the Bhaktivedanta Purports which His Divine Grace said were personally dictated by Krsna.
When Prabhupada authorized the publication of his Guru Maharaja’s Sri Brahma-Samhita, he stipulated that not one word of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta’s translation or purports be changed…
Quote from Subhananda dasa’s Introduction
“As per Srila Prabhupada’s instructions regarding the publication of this volume, Bhaktisiddanta Sarasvati’s somewhat technical and sometimes difficult prose has been left intact and virtually UNTOUCHED. Fearing that any editorial (grammatical and stylistic) tampering with Bhaktisiddhanta’s text might result in inadvertent changes in meaning, Prabhupada asked that it be left AS IS, and the editors of this volume have complied with his wishes. Only typographical errors have been corrected, capitalization standardized, Sansrit terms in devanagari script appearing within the English text have been transliterated, and already transliterated terms have been adjusted to international standards.”
So Srila Prabhupada, the unalloyed pure maha-bhagavata devotee would not allow ANY changes to his Guru Maharaja’s writing, yet this upstart mudha JAS has taken as his mission to systematically deconstruct and rewrite Prabhupada’s
Sudarsana Das Vanacari :JAS is a walking corpse, ugly, twisted and deranged consumed with the desire for adoration, and always demanding the respect of others and quick to anger when this is not forthcoming. At the same time he defies the trancendental wishes of the only present Diksa Guru and Acharya (by his own order) His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.He is a pitiful, pathetic and ‘puffed up’ character who does not understand the supreme position of His Divine Grace, but instead is slowly beying consumed by envy
Mahesh: Bhagavad-Gita describes:
Bg 16.4 T The Divine And Demoniac Natures
dambho darpo ‘bhimanas ca
krodhah parusyam eva ca
ajnanam cabhijatasya
partha sampadam asurim
SYNONYMS
dambhah–pride; darpah–arrogance; abhimanah–conceit; ca–and; krodhah–anger; parusyam–harshness; eva–certainly; ca–and; ajnanam–ignorance; ca–and; abhijatasya–one who is born of; partha–O son of Prtha; sampadam–nature; asurim–demoniac.
TRANSLATION
ARROGANCE, PRIDE, ANGER, CONCEIT, HARSHNESS AND IGNORANCE–these qualities belong to those of demoniac nature, O son of Prtha.
Bg 16.4 P
In this verse, the royal road to hell is described. The DEMONIAC WANT TO MAKE A SHOW OF RELIGION AND ADVANCEMENT IN SPIRITUAL SCIENCE, ALTHOUGH THEY DO NOT FOLLOW THE PRINCIPLES. THEY ARE ALWAYS ARROGANT or proud in possessing some type of education or so much wealth. THEY DESIRE TO BE WORSHIPED BY OTHERS, AND DEMAND RESPECTABILITY, ALTHOUGH THEY DO NOT COMMAND RESPECT. Over trifles they become very angry and speak harshly, not gently. They do not know what should be done and what should not be done. THEY DO EVERYTHING WHIMSICALLY, ACCORDING TO THEIR OWN DESIRE, AND THEY DO NOT RECOGNIZE ANY AUTHORITY.
Note: ACTUALLY there is NO ALTERNATIVE then to EXPOSE the Anti Ritvik manipulative money screwing slavery making GOONS. Preaching IS about fight:
731212mw.la
Prabhupāda: So preaching is always difficult. That I have repeatedly saying. You cannot take preaching very easy-going. PREACHING MUST BE FIGHT. Do you mean to say fighting is easy thing? Fighting is not easy thing. Whenever there is fight, there is danger, there is responsibility. So preachingmeans… What is the preaching? Because people are ignorant, we have to enlighten them. That is preaching.
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731211m2.la
Prabhupāda: So why these things should be allowed? That is our proposition. Every man will say, “No, I’ve got my own mathematics.” Will he be allowed? So we have to fight, otherwise what is the meaning of preaching?
Hṛdayānanda: Fight.
Prabhupāda: IF YOU THINK THAT EVERYTHING WILL BE ACCEPTED VERY EASILY, THEN WHAT IS THE NECESSITY OF PREACHING?
Hṛdayānanda: Jaya!
Prabhupāda: And propaganda.
Hṛdayānanda: You have to fight.
Prabhupāda: You must know that they are all rascals. That I said, rascals, unbelievers. You have to convert them to be sane man. That is preaching.
Hṛdayānanda: Jaya.
Prabhupāda: That is preaching. What do you expect that every man will immediately go and he’ll agree with you? Why do you expect like that? That is foolishness.
Mahesh Raja: Note: ACTUALLY there is NO ALTERNATIVE then to EXPOSE the Anti Ritvik manipulative money screwing slavery making GOONS. Preaching IS about fight.
Absolutely right, Mahesh Raja prabhu! This is the essence of Bhagavad Gita (As It Is). When Dharma has been trampled upon and Srila Prabhupada’s property usurped (Dhritarastra) one must fight!
When children have been ubused (Draupadi) Then one must fight!
When people have been tricked and cheated for monetary gain (Kauravas cheating the Pandavas, in the gambling match) Then one must fight!
When usurpers and pretenders pose as “qualified persons” Then one must fight!
The Supreme Lord is giving the direction DIRECTLY TO US. This is THE CONCLUSION OF BHAGAVAD GITA. We may not have any taste for a fight BUT THE LORD IS GIVING THE INSTRUCTION as what is required to SERVE HIM AND SURRENDER TO HIM by upholding Dharma.
Arjuna is only playing the part of conditioned soul, bewildered and confused but he is ETERNALLY LIBERATED SOUL always surrendered to the lord.
The Supreme Lords instruction TO Arjuna IS MEANT FOR US! otherwise what is the value of reading Bhagavad Gita? You may as well read Peter Pan! or some other nonsense!
As Srila Prabhupada has stated PREACHING MUST BE FIGHT. Distributing “unauthorized, bastardized versions of Srila Prabhupada’s books” IS NOT PREACHING! Organizing bogus, unauthorized “gurus” to speak IS NOT PREACHING! Picking the pockets of rich, degenerate ”Hindus” IS NOT PREACHING! Becoming a “bogus disciple of a bogus guru” IS NOT PREACHING! Kicking out ALL the Vaisnavas from the temples and replacing the congregation with degenerate Hindus IS NOT PREACHING! Allowing the murderers of Srila Prabhupada top positions of power IS NOT PREACHING! Allowing boy buggerers, theives, murderers, liars, cheats, mayavadis, career spiritualists, psychopaths and sleeze-bags to plunder and pillage Srila Prabhupada’s property IS NOT PREACHING!
Preaching must be fight! AS SRILA PRABHUPADA HAS STATED. Not because WE want to fight!… DID ARJUNA WANT TO FIGHT?……..NO! But because The Supreme Lord is ordering! HOW CAN YOU DEFEAT ADHARMA IF YOU DON’T FIGHT? Mahesh Raja is right THERE IS NO ALTERNATIVE!
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
“The next thing that disturbs me, sometimes we hear right in the middle of samsara dava “Jaya Prabhupada Jaya -“. What the hell is that? “Samsara dava” is not the Prabhupada song. It’s the guru song. It’s the song offering respect to the spiritual master which doesn’t mean the founder acarya of ISKCON.”
(JAS, Kirtana Standards Seminar, ISKCON Juhu, November 2014)
Jayadvaita has always been a jack off – The reason it disturbs him to hear Srila Prabhupada spontaneously glorified, not just in the middle of this song but at many different times, each and every day by devotees who still worship Srila Prabhupada in their hearts and whose hearts will never be changed – is because it both interferes with his fantasies and reminds him of what a worm he is in comparison and of how he will never be able to inspire such love and devotion. I think that ultimately that the only persons who Jayadvaita will inspire are Lord Bhrama and Yamaraja, the former to create a Hellish planet befitting Jayadvaita and the laterone to send him there.
Note: why these Anti Ritvik SLAVERY MAKING MONEY SCREWING ROGUES like Jayadvaita and his pet gorilla can NOT accept Srila Prabhupada although they came so close to him is because:UNLESS ONE IS ENLIGHTENED BY THE KNOWLEDGE GIVEN BY THE SPIRITUAL MASTER, HE CANNOT SEE THINGS AS THEY ARE, EVEN THOUGH HE REMAINS CONSTANTLY WITH THE SPIRITUAL MASTER.
Because they were speculating with their imperfect knowledge, they saw Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu as an ordinary human being and a boatman’s light in the lake as Kṛṣṇa. One must see things as they are through the mercy of a spiritual master; otherwise if one tries to see Kṛṣṇa directly, he may mistake an ordinary man for Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa for an ordinary man. Everyone has to see Kṛṣṇa according to the verdict of Vedic literatures presented by the self-realized spiritual master. A sincere person is able to see Kṛṣṇa through the transparent via medium of Śrī Gurudeva, the spiritual master.UNLESS ONE IS ENLIGHTENED BY THE KNOWLEDGE GIVEN BY THE SPIRITUAL MASTER, HE CANNOT SEE THINGS AS THEY ARE, EVEN THOUGH HE REMAINS CONSTANTLY WITH THE SPIRITUAL MASTER. This incident at Kālīya-daha is very instructive for those eager to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness…”. (Books : Sri Caitanya-caritamrta – 1975 Unrevised Edition – Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s Visit to Sri Vrndavana : Madhya 18.99)
Note: the Anti Ritvik ROGUES are LIKE BITING BUGS:
72-02-20. Letter: Satadhanya
So far personal association with the Guru is concerned, I was only with my Guru Maharaja four or five times, but I have never left his association, not even for a moment. Because I am following his instructions, I have never felt any separation. THERE ARE SOME OF MY GODBROTHERS HERE IN INDIA WHO HAD CONSTANT PERSONAL ASSOCIATION WITH GURU MAHARAJA, BUT WHO ARE NEGLECTING HIS ORDERS. THIS IS JUST LIKE THE BUG WHO IS SITTING ON THE LAP OF THE KING. HE MAY BE VERY PUFFED-UP BY HIS POSITION, BUT ALL HE CAN SUCCEED IN DOING IS BITING THE KING. PERSONAL ASSOCIATION IS NOT SO IMPORTANT AS ASSOCIATION THROUGH SERVICE.
“PERSONAL ASSOCIATION IS NOT SO IMPORTANT AS ASSOCIATION THROUGH SERVICE.”
This is a very important point. Some people become puffed up because they had physical association with the spiritual master, and some have even made a career out of telling their stories. Of course, it’s always nice to hear the pastimes of the pure devotee, but as Srila Prabhupada states here, it’s more important to please the spiritual master by carrying out his orders and rendering him favorable service without personal motivation. Sometimes we see devotees “pulling rank” over others and accepting honor, glory and material benefits because of their past association with the guru, but Krishna and Prabhupada are not so easily fooled. They know the heart of the disciple and are not impressed with such displays of false ego no matter how subtle or apparently devotional. As Srila Prabhupada mentions in the Gita, it’s better to be a sincere sweeper in the street than to be a charlatan or showbottle spiritualist. We’re all servants, and the more humble we can be, the better. “Servant of the servant – a hundred times removed.”