July 24, 2011 — AUSTRALIA — Unfortunately neither Rocana or Madhudvisa are convincing in their latest round of round of the dressing down of Srila Prabhupada’s ISKCON Ritvik system.
For years now Madhudvisa has been making the claim that ritviks say Srila Prabhupada didn’t want his disciples to go on and become gurus. This is simply rubbish and I believe that he knows this. Let them be gurus outside of Iskcon, Madhudvisa, this is the whole point.
There is absolutely no evidence that his disciples were to become the new gurus of his instituition, this is the whole point that Madhudvisa consistently avoids.
Sure become guru, however, go out on your own and do it rather than steal your spiritual master’s society.
Rocana Prabhu and his wife are both excellent writers, so it is very surprising that after all these years and so much water under the bridge, the only thing that Rocana Prabhu can come up with, is this latest cut and staple installment.
Rocana Prabhu is a very staunch anti-ritvik advocate and under such circumstances his credibility will be greater if he can step up to the plate and defeat the document, …The Final Order.
Until Rocana Prabhu does this, he can raise cut and staple issues until the cows come home.
Kurma Dasa (not the chef)
“Rocana Prabhu and his wife are both excellent writers, so it is very surprising that after all these years and so much water under the bridge, the only thing that Rocana Prabhu can come up with, is this latest cut and staple installment.”
It should be known that he and his girlfriend Susan are not married. They’ve been shacking up together for the last 12 years or so.
Whoever “damodarastakam” is, he’s a liar. Rocana das and I are married. And we’ve been together for 17 years, not 12.
It’s pathetic that this is all you can come up with to add to the discussion, damodarastakam.
pamho agtACBSP
They can create their own acharya church of living dead outside Iskcon – Iskcon the house the whole world was supposed to live in.
Because unless our plan is connected to the remote cause nimitta matram through the instructions of Prabhupada it’s all living dead.
We can give everything to a dead fish outside the water but that’s useless because there is no life in it without its position in deep water.
In the same way we are not situated in our original position outside of ISKCON. Therefore it is better to follow Prabhupada by cooperating with HG Madhu Pandit prabhu at Iskcon Bangalore instead of creating something what Prabhupada did not order.
May be one day they understand that they have not enough power to spiritually uplift present kali-yuga situation with their churches of living dead.
Therefore we have to surrender to the Final Order otherwise we will be defeated life after life without accepting that Prabhupada is the current link to our sampradaya.
ys seva das
haribol
Hare Krsna.
The conclusion that you are proposing seems to be either we have a choice with madhu Pandit dasa and what is called “the final order” OR the official Iskcon stance that you say Srila Prabhupada did not order.
The churches of the living dead.
And then you say we have to surrender to the final order otherwise we will be defeated life after life without accepting that Srila Prabhupada is the current link.
So your way forward is only through the final order and no other way.
I think you have made a massive mistake in your prognosis of the situation, that you have to follow the final order to be linked up to Srila Prabhupada as the current link.
If the final order did not exist Srila Prabhupada is still the current link and in Iskcon Srila Prabhupada is also the current link because He IS THE BONA FIDE SPIRITUAL MASTER..
Your arguement is purely on paper only and not a philosophical point.
Do we need a final order to tell us the SUN IS HOT AND LIGHT or WATER IS WET AND FLUID.
The bona fide Spiritual Master is the current link whom is authorised by His predecessor Spiritual Master who we all take Initiation from.
Therefore we can approach Srila Prabhupada directly irrespective of Iskcon/Gurus or the final order ritviks.
Whether or not the rittvik issue is continued after Srila Prabhupada’s disappearance is irrelevant to approaching Srila Prabhupada.Otherwise if we follow the july 9th letter,the descriptive and prescriptive process is that a “rittvik” has to consider the recommendation from a Temple President as to whether the disciple is accepted or not as a disciple of Srila Prabhupada,not Srila Prabhupada Himself.
The weakness of the rittvik process is that when the ritvik finishes the whole process finishes.The process comes to an end and the acceptance of disciples ends because the rittvik is the process for acceptance of disciples.
Even if you follow Srila Prabhupada directly the rittvik process as described and prescribed in the July 9th letter means there has to be a rittvik physically present for the process to work,to function.
Srila Prabhupada appointed the aforementioned rittviks in July 9th letter so according to july9th letter when the rittviks finish then the process finishes.Its a massively weak process as it is just a temporary process not an eternal process.
According to Srila Prabhupada’s eternal instructions in S.Bhagavatam 4.8.54,
“One should take Initiation from a Bona Fide Spiritual Master coming in Disciplic Succession,who is authorised by His predecessor Spiritual master…..”.
Srila Prabhupada is that Bona Fide Spiritual master that He instructs us to take Initiation from.
The rittvik process does not follow that principle of Initiation from a Bona Fide Spiritual master because there has to be a physically present rittvik for the process to function and the rittvik is directly accepting the Disciple on behalf of Srila Prabhupada from a recommendation by a Temple President.The disciple is only a disciple of Srila prabhupada through the process outlined in july 9th letter by rittvik acceptance.No more rittviks means no more accepting.Its just a temporary process not eternal.
Approaching Srila Prabhupada directly through His eternal form
as the current link in Disciplic Succession is eternal and what He recommends in S.Bhagavatam(4.8.54.).
Initiation in Absentia.No rittviks.
dusyanta dasa on 26. July 2011 at 12:03 pm said:
“Initiation in Absentia.No rittviks.”
So how do the “formalities,” ceremonies, proceed?
This is the flaw in your argument.
According to Prabhupada’s books, ritviks = priests.
Hare Krishna.
AGTSP.
QUOTE:
“In a drugstore there may be many medicines, and all may be genuine, but what is required is that an experienced physician prescribe medicine for a particular patient. We cannot say in this case, “This is also medicine, and this is also medicine.” No. The medicine which is effective for a particular person is the medicine for him—phalena paricīyate.
We have to accept everything favorable to the circumstances. Rejection of other methods in a particular circumstance does not mean that the rejected ones are not bona fide. But for the time being, taking into consideration the age, time, and object, methods are sometimes rejected even though bona fide. We have to test everything by its practical result.” SSR 3: Discovering the Roots
“So as not to disrupt the minds of ignorant men attached to the fruitive results of prescribed duties, a learned person should not induce them to stop work. Rather, by working in the spirit of devotion, he should engage them in all sorts of activities [for the gradual development of Krishna consciousness].” Bg. 3-25:
pamho prabhus agtACBSP
kamika ekadasi ki jai
Well, to tell you the truth bhakti is independent says SRI NARADA MUNI in NARADA BHAKTI SUTRA and SRILA RUPA GOSVAMI says:
Simply by touching the holy name with one’s tongue, immediate effect is produced.
Chanting the holy name does not depend on initiation, pious activities, or the purascarya regulative principles generally observed before initiation.
The holy name does not wait for all these activities. It is self-sufficient, PADYAVALI 29.
It is not a question of being philosophical but practical – for 3 decades the robbers of Iskcon caused thousands of thousands devotees to cry because they disrespected the bona fide spiritual master as well as the holy name by giving more importance to the diksa vidhana process of initiation and falsely accepting disciples in their names.
This means they deviate from the final instruction of SRILA PRABHUPADA which contains all the spiritual power.
HG Madhu Pandit prabhu gives a good example for all those who deviated and unfortunately still don’t know what is the final order.
The final order is very simple: For the next 9500 years of kali yuga, Prabhupada is the only diksa-guru of Iskcon.
Only SRI SRI GURU GAURANGA can change our destiny i know devotees who got diksa initiation by SRILA PRABHUPADA in dream.
It is a very long way my friend it don’t come so easy says HG Sriman Haridas (George Harrison) – you don’t need the final order to see the sun but without the sun light our eyes are useless.
In the same way all these kangoorus who deviated from the final order of SRILA PRABHUPADA in Iskcon are blind and will be defeated life after life because all the spiritual power is in the final instruction of Srila Prabhupada and not in their limited bhakti still trapped in the false ego.
Build a living church with SRILA PRABHUPADA as the only genuine guide we already got so many churches empty because the living dead became completely dead.
agtys ys
seva das
haribol
pamho agtACBSP,
devotees who say no ritviks haven’t cried enough!
The flaw of their argument – they don’t know what it means to have the privilege of taking birth in high vaisnava family as our beloved acharya.
They are not happy to be ritvik or priest, they want to become kangooru by skipping the genuine process to actually become fully Krishna conscious. Subsequently people are mislead to accept a sudra as initiating spiritual master, diksa-guru.
Without ritvik system acting on behalf of Prabhupada there is no bona fide diksa vidhana. Without ritviks you simply get puffed up falsely thinking you are liberated and when a false guru falls the cheated disciples hide in shame. All over Europe so many are hidng now. Ex-disciples of Jayatirtha, Bhagavan, Harikes, Suhotra, Prithu, Rohinisuta, Krishnaksetra, approx. 10 000 cheated devotees.
The ritvik system was established in Iskcon by HDG ACBSP to save time to save yourself – don’t commit the same mistake of other kangooru survivors.
This is the problem of the new generation who were “trained” in present Fiskcon and we are trying to again make it Iskcon because we are fed up to see all of you to get your lives spoiled.
Good luck, wake up!
ys seva das
haribol
Hey Dusyanta Srila Prabhupada said that .”more names could be added”, this was the process for Iskcon. There goes your theory that it all finishes when the ritvik is gone.
Your arguments simply reflect your sympathy for the .”good old boys club”, the very people who are anti-Prabhupada, the ones who have let Him down the most.
We read Srila Prabhupadas books, we follow His discipline 16 rounds etc, so therefore He is our Guru, there is absolutely no question about it. It is plainly obvious that people such as Dusyanta and Rocana and hundreds of others, they still have not given up their quest for power and adoration. They think that because they were among Srila Prabhupadas first group, they have some sort of right or inheritence to exploit and abuse others. Get over yourself Dusyanta, just accept the fact that Srila Prabhupada IS greater than you, give up your false sense of proprietorship and inheritence, and simply accept the fact that Srila Prabhpada gives everyone equal footing, not that you are better than others who are coming to His Lotus Feet.
John