Prabhavishnu: A Fallen Prince
BY: ROCANA DASA
Feb 04, 2012 — CANADA (SUN) — This essay is focused on the public apology letters recently released by Prabhavishnu Prabhu. Other Sampradaya Sun contributors have addressed the messages communicated within these letters. For the most part I’m in agreement with these observations, so I’ll avoid being repetitive.
Srila Prabhupada states that the initial objective of an expert preacher is to have the opposing party reveal their mis-understanding of the Absolute Truth by having them speak and/or write their position. Prabhavishnu’s two open letters reveal his present state of contaminated maya-consciousness.
His first letter focuses mainly on his self-diagnosed physical and mental exhaustion – no mention of his spiritual ill health. He lays the blame for his anxiety ridden state primarily on his personal services/duties to his Spiritual Master, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami. As a true blue ISKCON-ite, he has adopted the perception that service to the Spiritual Master is non-different from serving the institution known as ISKCON. In his mind this means that accepting the sannyasa order, becoming a member of the GBC and assuming the duties of a diksa guru are more in the context of service within ISKCON rather than a committed vow to his Spiritual Master.
His resignation letters appear more in the style of corporate executive or political functionary rather than a disciple begging forgiveness from his Spiritual Master due to abandoning his vows and service. Does this scenario remind anyone of the first section of the second chapter of the Bhagavad-gita? Arjuna surrendered to Lord Sri Krishna, but our Godbrother Prabhavishnu dasa declined, and we see the results.
Prabhavishnu writes that he always chanted his rounds, attended daily kirtan, etc. He is either lying or he is committing offenses to the Holy Name. He has essentially told us that he is abandoning his divine duties in order to reside in a warm, comfy country (Thailand) in the intimate company of a nice wealthy Chinese businesswomen.
Any fool who swallowed the story that “the swami” made the acquaintance of this woman a mere nine months ago deserves to be duped. Naturally, the public have been more than curious of the actual details, and it took the GBC until just this week to release their own ‘comprehensive report‘.
How did an ISKCON Vaisnava swami make the acquaintance of such a lovely lady? Was she in the habit of attending the Bangkok temple? I think not, or he would have mentioned this important piece of information. This only leads us to assume he went “woman hunting” as his Spiritual Master frequently refers to it in his lectures.
In his letter, our renounced ex-swami informs us he has no immediate plans to marry his oriental lover. Every bhakta knows that this is very much against our Vaisnava principles. In fact, Srila Prabhupada stated many times in many lectures that this attitude is symptomatic of a “dog-like” mentality.
Are Prabhavishnu’s pastimes proof that the sadhana process doesn’t really work? According to him he was chanting the prescribed number of rounds. He continued to perform his arduous GBC duties and diksa guru service. He was associating with the “advanced” devotees in the Holy Dhama. But despite all these auspicious activities, Lord Sri Krishna choose not to protect him from falldown.
According to the Science of Devotional Service, our Godbrother must have been committing some very serious offenses. What are they? As students of the teachings of the Sampradaya Acaryas we reject the notion that serving the Spiritual Master and the devotees is a cause of falldown, or even mental and physical deterioration. The promise of the Lord is that He will provide you what you lack so long as you are sincerely serving and are not offending the Lord or His pure devotees.
But Prabhavishnu is blaming the service itself on the fact that he, through his own free will, put himself in these circumstances. In his deluded state of consciousness, he has essentially analyzed his situation to be the result of him being put into an untenable situation for him, because he’s a certain type of personality. According to his own personal analysis he’s a kind, gentle person who’s not suited to sannyasa and travelling, he’s not suited to be a manager or a GBC, and he’s not suited to be an initiating guru. So if you look closely at what he’s saying, he feels he’s more suited to being in Thailand with a non-devotee businesswoman, living comfortably. That’s the way he’s personally most suited, it’s his nature.
In the follow-up “damage control” letters penned by our vomit-eating (vantasi) Godbrother, he shares with his public the Reader’s Digest version of his illustrious devotional history. The gullible ISKCON-ite will only be familiar with the sanitized depictions of ISKCON’s history after Srila Prabhupada’s departure, but historical reality tells a different story, and Prabhavishnu’s version of his service history must be understood in the true historical context.
In typical swami-speak, we hear that our sincere and eager young recruit was ordered to take the difficult flight to the exotic land of India. Upon safely landing, our ideal brahmachari assumed valuable service to Srila Prabhupada under the guidance of a local GBC. In fact, after Srila Prabhupada went into Samadhi, this GBC man became a Zonal Acarya, now know to us as His Divine Grace Jayapataka Swami Acarya-pada.
Prabhavishnu took sannyasa from Jayapataka during the period of 1979 to 1981. During this period, most of the Zonal Acaryas were engaged in their one-upmanship game. One of their competitive practices was to initiate their local leading brahmacaries into the sannyasa order, because one’s prestige as a Zonal Acarya was enhanced by the number of “junior” sannyasis you had working under you. Obviously, our self-confessed Prabhavishnu was a victim of this practice. But it wasn’t “the GBC” who coerced the reluctant Prabhavishnu dasa Brahmachari into accepting the vows of a sannyasi – it was the Zonal Acarya, Jayapataka Swami. The lay of the land in that dark period was that it was the Zonal Acarya Board who dominated the other non-Zonals and big ISKCON leaders, not a functioning GBC board.
While I have penned a number of articles in the series, “Princes of the Zonal Acaryas“, I have not as yet described the princes of Jayapataka Swami, include Prabhavishnu. One of the questions I pose in these articles is: in their supportive role, do these princes suffer reactions for the sinful offenses of their Zonal Acarya Godfathers? Logically and sastrically, one can assume that they do.
Prabhavishnu was dishonest in not clearly stating that it was, in fact, Jayapataka Swami who paved the way to his taking sannyasa, becoming a GBC and a diksa guru. Even today, regardless of how many of these “princes” are sacrificed, it is taboo to mention the names of the Zonal Acaryas who are responsible. ISKCON members can avoid exclusion from the society for any abominable practice, up to and including murder and child abuse, but if one dares to criticize or blame the top leaders, then excommunication is assured. Myself and many others stand as examples. Prabhavishnu, on the other hand, reveals in his letter that he hopes to be later included in ISKCON society, especially in the zone of Jayapataka, where he can join the ranks of ex-Swamis like Hari-sauri and Bhavananda, who are enjoying a comfortable existence there.
Despite his recent medical disability, Jayapataka Swami stands out as the sole remaining active Zonal Acarya. During the reform period (mid-1980’s) when the Zonal Acaryas were in fear of losing everything, Jayapataka stood out as the architect of the GBC-oriented system that has evolved into what is today the “ultimate managing authority”, or the collective absolute acarya of ISKCON. Let us not forget that in 1978, Jayapataka was a key philosophical exponent of the Zonal Acarya system. According to Prabhavishnu’s letter, Jayapataka Swami pressured him into becoming a GBC member.
Also keep in mind that in 1984, Zonal Acaryas like Jayapataka were under a great deal of grassroots pressure to reform, or else. In response, they decided to capitulate by opening up the GBC and approving a selective group of new gurus. In the wake of the dramatic falldowns of Hansadutta and Jayatirtha, the blush had come off the rose. Their artificial, concocted system was quickly deteriorating. Jayapataka knew more than anyone that Bhavananda was a mega- scandal just waiting to happen. So Gopal Krishna Swami, Jagadisa Swami and a few others were reluctantly given club membership, as de facto replacements for the original fallen Zonal Acaryas.
It was the exposure of Bhavananda that heralded the Reform Movement. At this point, the politically astute Jayapataka Swami understood that he had to pad the GBC with his “yes-men”. And voila! Prabhavishnu was appointed to the GBC.
Today, we see that Prabhavishnu has craftily composed his “swan-song” letter. His real targeted audience is those who knew what sort of backroom politics surrounded his GBC appointment, and he’s letting them know that he’s now suffering the results of that maneuver. But at the same time he is not being too straightforward, risking the wrath of Jayapataka Swami, who would see to it that Prabhavishnu never set foot in Mayapur again.
The carefully orchestrated so-called Reform Movement resulted in the then surviving Zonal Acaryas keeping their multitude of disciples and political GBC positions. The only permitted reform that slightly diminished their power base was that the newcomers could now initiate in what had once been their exclusive zones.
Accurate ISKCON historical memory tells the story of the opening up of fertile initiating areas for the latecomers, due in part to the falldown of Zonal Acaryas such as Harikesa, Ramesvar, Bhagavan and Bhavananda, as well as the fading out or retirement of Satsvarup and Hridayananda, and the departure of Tamal Krishna. Prabhavishnu followed the disciple gold trail to Eastern Europe and “down-under” (Australia and New Zealand), gradually accumulating 1,500 of his own disciples. And if you consider his recent duck dive from this perspective, you will get a clearer understanding of the reasons he is now being trampled by an accumulation of elephant offenses.
How many more of these second-tier ISKCON approved initiating diksa gurus are being lined up by Lord Sri Krishna’s faithful servant, the dreaded Mayadevi, to suffer a drama of self-destruction and humiliating exposure? The most incredible aspect of this inevitable- as-death drama is that the other close associates of Prabhavishnu are deluded into thinking it will not happen to them! Of course, Srila Prabhupada warned his disciples that their main fault was they were not enough afraid of Maya.
Prabhavishnu has admittedly adopted and is preaching the modern concocted philosophical conception of position and responsibilities of being a diksa guru. Vaisnava sastra does not support the notion that an initiating diksa guru just accepts disciples on behalf of an institution, such as we see in the present day ISKCON. Preaching and promoting bogus siddhanta is categorically one of the worst forms of offense a Vaisnava can commit. First, Prabhavishnu supported the Zonal Acarya concept; now he preaches that the definition of diksa initiation includes the disciple’s official admission into an invented religious practice, thus usurping ISKCON, the original mission of a Sampradaya Acarya.
Such nonsense rhetoric is being presented by many ISKCON diksa gurus today. A perfect example is Bhakti Caru Swami, as heard at a recent initiation ceremony lecture he gave in Germany. In this lecture, Bhakti Charu articulates in some detail the philosophy that many of these gurus have adopted, which is not in line with Srila Prabhupada’s program. This Kaliyuga concept is summarized as follows: Srila Prabhupada is responsible to take their disciples back to Godhead, through his books/teachings, along with the disciple’s local temple authorities. The local devotees recruit and train and engage the diksa guru’s disciples. But this institutionalized guru system is the ultimate responsibility cop-out, and is nothing less than outright cheating. These itinerate “tax collectors” show up at the temple every few years, primarily for the purpose of accepting guru daksine and to remind their “disciples” to regularly transfer money to their personal Paypal account.
Sastrically and traditionally, bona fide Vaisnava diksa gurus are obliged to take full responsibility for training their disciples. Srila Prabhupada demonstrated this principle perfectly. He established ISKCON in order to fulfill this responsibility to his disciples. Srila Prabhupada mentioned on many occasions that he created all his books in order to provide his disciples with pure unadulterated siddhanta, and temple communities so as to provide his sincere followers with a pure atmosphere in which to engage in Krishna consciousness.
In his apology letters, Prabhavishnu is also not pointing out that under this crazy ISKCON initiation system, he was allowed and encouraged to accumulate far too many disciples. Today, we can all witness the reality that this bewildered, fallen fool could never maintain even one disciple, let alone 1,500. Is this scenario offensive to the Sampradaya Acaryas?
The bona fide initiating guru system is an essential pillar of our unalloyed philosophy. Our Vaisnava siddhanta is resting on a foundation of loving personalism. Bhakti is best described as the mentality of being the ‘servant of the servant’. In other words, if some living entity renders you service, whether it be family members or even a cow, then you are indebted to them. Demigods, brahmanas, kings are all providing service. The disciple is informed of their debt to the guru, who is assumed to provide valuable service, but if the guru doesn’t serve and instead just takes service without reciprocating, then they are running up a large debt.
Both parties in a genuine loving relationship must play their part. Prabhavishnu’s circumstances indicate that he is totally indebted. He has failed to be a transparent via media to his Spiritual Master and ultimately to Lord Sri Krishna. He foolishly thinks he can hide out in some demoniac country in the arms of a representative of Maya and not have to pay. How delusional is this?
In the Srimad Bhagavatam we hear, on the highest possible level, about the terms of pure relationships, as experienced between Lord Sri Krishna and the gopis of Vrindavan. Krishna explains that He is so indebted to the gopis that He can never repay them for their unalloyed loving service.
In this material existence, taking on the vows of a bonafide diksa guru is most serious. It is not a game or a business. Yet in the ISKCON corporation, power is relative to how many disciples you have initiated, which impacts your personal cash flow. It appears that there is no conception that all this laxmi has to be repaid or transferred to the proper eternal bank account. The diksa guru cannot simply take money from disciples, and utilize that laxmi in order to establish an illicit relationship with a non-devotee Thai women, who wouldn’t be interested in her lover if he was just an impoverished Hare Krishna devotee.
It’s a well-known fact throughout the world that tourists fly to Bangkok in order to enjoy sexual encounters. Prabhavishnu should have known that Bangkok is the graveyard of many past ISKCON sannyasis – even during Srila Prabhupada’s lila. Paramahamsa Swami was a Bangkok victim. Hari-sauri broke his sannyasa vows in the Far East, and it seems that Prabhavishnu is essentially following in the footsteps of Hari-sauri das. Hari-sauri helped set the precedent and standard, although it now appears everyone has forgiven and forgotten the history of this once pompous swami. Hari-sauri broke his vows with a Chinese businesswomen. His friends on the GBC got him remarried, gave him a position, and helped him write and distribute his books on Srila Prabhupada. He is now enjoying a comfortable householder existence in Mayapur Dham, enjoying with friends like Bhavananda. Prabhavishnu knows Hari-sauri as a friend from Calcutta. In his bewildered mind, he no doubt concludes that his buddy Hari-sauri gave up sannyasa and is now enjoying a good grihasta life, so why can’t he do the same?
In his letters, Prabhavishnu has even let us know that after some amount of time has passed, he’ll come searching for a Hari-sauri style comfortable position within the institution. Meanwhile Hari-sauri has come to Prabhavishnu’s defense, saying in the ISKCON forums that the things being said about Prabhavishnu in the Sampradaya Sun are just terrible – he himself is certainly not part of the ‘community of concerned devotees’ who would ever be so critical of a fallen swami. No, of course he wouldn’t. He wants Prabhavishnu to enjoy the same level of acceptance and short memory for offenses that he himself enjoyed. Hari-sauri does not seem realize that he has helped to set the standard in ISKCON, and others in future will look to him as an example of why their own falldowns should be quickly forgiven and forgotten.
We have had another similar example recently, with rumors circulating that a disciple of Srila Prabhupada’s, one of ISKCON’s most famous chefs has impregnated a girl half his age. After engaging in illicit sex and having still not married the girl, the Sun is now getting many complaint letters that this senior devotee is still willing to shamelessly sit on the asana, giving lectures in the temple – and the temple authorities are nonchalantly willing to invite him to do so. Like Hari-sauri and Prabhavishnu, this prabhu will no doubt serve as an example to brahmacaries and dissatisfied grihastas on what can be considered acceptable behavior for an ISKCON devotee.
We hear many statements to the effect that it isn’t worth the effort and risk to try and reform ISKCON. Yet through the vehicle of the Sampradaya Sun, so many contributors are presenting the real facts, thus giving reality checks to sincere souls. But is it just too far gone? What set of circumstances would result in an ‘ISKCON spring’, not unlike what we have witnessed in the Middle East? Grassroots uprising are happening all around the world, as people push to get rid of tyrannical regimes. What would it take to create a grassroots uprising in ISKCON, in order to purge Srila Prabhupada’s mission of all these contaminated leaders? It is my strongly held belief that the ISKCON rank and file must begin by seeing the truth through the eyes of Sastra, informing their fellow Godbrothers and sisters of the hidden facts. Personal stories must be told, no matter the cost. The truth about the degree of contamination that is now rampant in our ISKCON society must come out, in full view. If left in the shadows, it will just continue to grow, as it has for the last 30 years – a deadly cancer that is destroying Srila Prabhupada’s movement.
In Prabhavishnu’s case, he knows that Jayapataka Swami still welds a great deal of power. If you hope and plan to serve in the Holy Land of Mayapur, which is controlled by Jayapataka and his disciples, then you must stay silent. One of the well used and predictable responses we hear from apologists like Hari-sauri, is that Srila Prabhupada was very forgiving when his swamis fell down. In particular, we are reminded of the story of Madhudvisa Swami. The short story is that Srila Prabhupada chastised those who were criticizing Madhudvisa, saying it is wrong to drive him away. This pastime of Srila Prabhupada’s is undeniable, but it should be taken in context. I’m certain Srila Prabhupada did not intend to have this unique set of circumstances eclipse the teachings of our Vaisnava sastra. There are so many other statements made by Prabhupada in his purports and emphasized many times in his lectures, which offer a different view, and they cannot all be simply ignored in favour of this one convenient example. Yet we are asked by the interpreters of Srila Prabhupada’s lila to ignore the mandates around sannyasi deviations, and to instead speculate that Prabhupada would apply the same principles with today’s deviating swamis as he did during his lila, with Madhudvisa.
The powerful GBC members wish to be seen as the present day Acaryas, which means that whatever they want is truth, despite how their decisions contradict Sastra. On the other hand, if anyone dares pointing out their faults or challenges their authority, then the predictable reaction is that of a thunderbolt. Many highly esteemed disciples of Srila Prabhupada have been driven out, while total deviants have been given all compassion and facility. Bhavananda stands are proof positive. In comparison to the chronic debauchee Bhavananda, who resides in Mayapur Dham under the shelter of Jayapataka, Prabhavishnu is sure to be shown mercy and compassion by the great Jayapataka after the dust has settled. And in return, Prabhavishnu clarifies in his letter that the GBC are great, sincere and hard-working, and he instructs his disciples to take shelter of them.
Each reader has their own unique set of circumstances. Some are directly impacted by the Prabhavishnu scandal while others have another reality to deal with. But we have all been forewarned by the great Sampradaya Acaryas to expect this type of spiritual confusion in the Age of Kali. Lord Caitanya and His bona fide representatives have given us the most absolute of all Absolute Truths and the knowledge and means to achieve it. Chaitya Guru (Paramatma) is within everyone’s heart and is directing us according to our desires. My writings are sincerely meant to give another perspective, beyond what is made available within the institution. One ultimately has to fly their own plane, using whatever knowledge has been made available. Many accuse me of being offensive, but I am simply trying to help the reader avoid committing the same offenses that have brought Prabhavishnu to the pitiable condition he now finds himself in.
Dear Editors
Thanks for posting this article. Although Rocana is anti-Ritvik he points out that gurus have to be uttama-adikari, pure devotees.
So to speak, Rocana is a thorn we can use to pull out another thorn. Thats what Prabhupada says in SB: “Therefore, the example of picking out a thorn by another thorn is quite befitting. One thorn, which causes pinpricks on the leg of the Lord, is certainly disturbing to the Lord, and the other thorn, which takes out the disturbing elements, certainly gives service to the Lord.”
Dear Rocana Prabhu et al; After reading the first few paragraphs, I realized you were insincere in asking why Prabhavishnu Swami had fallen down. It is simple, Prabhu; From apple tree seeds, only more apples will grow, you cannot get mangoes. Similarly, those who serve the poisoners and the servants of the poisoners must fall down, the offense has not been rectified, they will always fall down; not S.P. dasa, but opposite, P.S. dasa; servants of the Poisoned Sampradaya.
Otherwise, as he says, there appears to be obviously a history. Wait until she tires of her “orange juice”, that will be a shock, he had best see that coming. That will be much like the shock felt by his followers. Both are a pity and could have been avoided, but its easy for me to be quarterback from off-field. My own marriage was disastrous, as I had married a non-devotee ( young men, don’t marry non-devotees), but I certainly wasn’t wearing hypocritical saffron at the time.
Never mind, it’s alright, join the Prabhupadanugas, Prabhavishnu Prabhu, reject all false prestiges of the a-sampradaya, and chant Hare Krsna happily without having to play at being a demigod to please criminals..
Why does it take Rocana so many words to say so little?
Because he likes the sound of his own voice.
pamho agtACBSP
The anti-ritviks will follow Prabhavishnu in maha maya and all of them fallen down and blind, support the guru hoaxers what is against the last statement of SRILA PRABHUPADA for the continuation of his ISKCON movement.
Therefore, open your eyes, become a bonafide representative, receive divyan jnana in the heart from the only bonafide uttama adhikari link, Srila Prabhupada, he says real love is to cooperate and didn’t say you are the guru after me.
“Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, at the time of his departure, requested all his disciples to form a governing body and conduct missionary activities cooperatively.”
Until the real brightness of a bonafide uttama adhikari will manifest, we know nobody but 108 SRI SRIMAD ACBSP KI JAI.
“So my Guru Maharaja’s idea was amongst the members of GBC who would come out successful and self-effulgent acarya would be automatically selected.”
ys seva das
haribol
as one continues
to fail in one’s mind
sense
gratification is the diversion yes
no
matter how perverted the idea of enjoyment
on
the ground one stands and fights it
off yes you
simply
can
not
be thinking it is too
distasteful for one
to address even no you have got to take
the bull by
the
horns so to speak and tell the
truth in a
most
straightforward manner then
one
will find how it is
as
the sense gratification
that arises from facing continual
temptation
and
the
sensation of being made to
feel wanted in a sensual way
even
yes as even that sense
gratification
is neutralized you find there
a
bunch
of
blithering idiots in
leadership
position or you
are
fortunate
enough
to find a way to
praise the association of vaisnavas
Prabhavishnu is my cousin. Stop writing lies about him.
Hare Krsna.
Seva Prabhu you have made the monumental mistake of thinking and generalising that if a devotee is not pro-ritvik then he is anti- ritvik.
Prabhu there are way more than two camps in Iskcon.
If you would like i can bring to your attention loads of quotes that the ritviks ignore all the time.
I think many ritviks make the same mistake by reading “The Final Order” and just sucking up to it as if it were the perfect conclusion.
The “Final Order” leaves out so many quotes about physical Guru, the complete definition of the Diksa Guru relationship, what is the relationship with Srila Prabhupada through His Books, and so on.
Last year i spent over three weeks just studying the “Final Order” and practically speaking there are so many mistakes on each page.It definately needs a re-write to get up to speed for todays devotees.
many of the points that the author made are simply out of date and disproven now.
I urge all “Final Order” disciples to maybe take a new look at the booklet.
Also it is a good idea to look through all of Srila Prabhupada’s Books about the Initiator, Diksa Guru, and the physicality aspects of that relationship, there are many words on this subject, not none.
in the service of the Vaisnava devotees of the Lord, Dusyanta dasa.
@ Dusyanta dasa
“If you would like i can bring to your attention loads of quotes that the ritviks ignore all the time.”
I don’t know about Seva Prabhu but I’m interested, please show these quotes.
“many of the points that the author made are simply out of date and disproven now.”
Which points are these?
hare krsna bhakta hugh
i want srila prabhupada first printings 1972 srimad bhagavatam online. please make it available online.
Dusyanta Prabhu,
Could you provide the quotes omitted by TFO? And also, could you provide evidence of the out-dated points, mistakes, and disproven points? And also, who has disproven them? Have these been communicated to the writer of the TFO? Otherwise, it merely remains an generic opinion that does not provide sufficient scope for a response from the author.
Thanks,
das,
jai simman
Hare Krsna .
It would be totally impossible in this format to show all the mistakes from the TFO.
From just a two week period of studying the TFO last year there were mistakes on every page of TFO.
In a short time from now there will be published a document of over 180 pages that illustrates all the mistakes made in TFO and believe me it is a comprehensive demolition of TFO in every detail possible and from every angle possible.It is fully comprehensive.
But today i wont be able to divulge that document .
I can however recommend that you re-read TFO with an open transparent heart without your ritvik spectacles on your eyes and heart and go through it with a fine comb, if you cant find one mistake then just carry on being whatever you are being, but i can reassure you that there are massive mistakes and a huge volume of mistakes in the TFO.
If you have received the Back to Prabhupada issue 35 Spring 2012 edition yet, then i would like to point out the back page of that edition entitled
“may 28th Conversation: Another Climbdown”.
Practically speaking this is riddled with errors, mistakes inaccuracies, assumptions and pre-conceived ideas.Its a really great example of not representing .Why dont you read this particular article and see how many mistakes you can find.
I would like to point out to you that i dont support the GBC/Gurus either and being an independent devotee with nothing to defend i am able to identify all the mistakes in both camps, its quite easy actually.
The TFO and the Back to Prabhupada are edited by the same author and there are so many copycat mistakes in the writings continually.
The thing is that you have to find all the mistakes yourself, you have to want to find the truth, the Supersoul will then direct you to the truth and the truth will be revealed to you .
I went through this whole process as well and i read TFO as if it were the truth and that it represented Srila Prabhupada’s teachings but it just does not.But i had to find it all out by myself and the Supersoul, the Shiksa Guru, guided me to the right place to find out the truth because i desired it.It has taken about 20years for this process to work out.I was nearly a sold out “ritvik” but i kept an open mind and heart and the Supersoul just slowly guided me to the right place.
Just be patient and i guarantee that the document will be published this year that absolutely illustrates the futility of TFO, the huge amount of errors on so many platforms, the neophyte nature of TFO, and also deals with the GBC/Gurus mistakes as well, its a fabulous document, way better than the TFO.
I think that in August 2012 , August 11/12th , it will be published. Its nearly 200 pages long and its fully comprehensive. So perhaps after you have read it all and let it all sink in then the real debate will begin then. Then we will be able to engage in a proper dialogue instead of all this back chat , then when you compare the two documents then you will realise how badly put together the TFO actually is. Actually the TFO is riddled with errors all the way through it but it only appears to be right, especially to the neophytes like me. I was taken in once but now i have seen the truth and the “ritviks” are wrong, and the GBC/Gurus are wrong as well. The truth is another route.The truth is always the truth but it can be hidden or revealed because the truth is a person and the truth has a choice, which depends on your surrender and sincerity.
Also i would like to point out that i have nothing against the “ritviks” because i was also going along that route once upon a time so there go i but for the grace of God.I also have nothing against the GBC/Gurus that also have made mistakes and i followed them for awhile but saw the errors in their ways too. The “ritviks” have reached their zenith this year because for open minded and open hearted devotees this new comprehensive document will replace TFO and it will totally defeat the TFO completely and finally. Perhaps then we will really undestand what Srila Prabhupada’s position is in His Iskcon and how we relate with Him in the way He intended.There is another way.Its the truth way.
hoping you all keep open minds and hearts, your servant in Srila Prabhupada’s service, Dusyanta dasa.
Thank you, Dusyanta Prabhu. I eagerly await this document. Who has written it? How may I obtain a copy?
das
jai
Rtvik and GBC guru hoax are two sides of the same cult coin. Loving Krishna, serving Him and having a relationship with Him is not sanctioned by a splinter cult group, the main Group of Bogus Cultists, or the Reform Cultists. Krishna is independent and not dependent on, or restricted by, any such group.
@ sathya
Your prayer has been answered.
I just saw this today.
http://krishna.org/srimad-bhagavatam-original-edition-pdf-download/
Dusyanta das,
Could you send me your work about “The Final Order” when it gets ready?
Thank you,
Hare Krishna!
Dear Dusyanta Das:
The ritvik system was established years before the so called final order and all the system stablished in an institution should follow running until the end of it, In iskcon, some ten thousand years or more in the future. Srila Prabhupada said: “I am giving you every thing.” The only one requirement to be accepted by Srila Prabhupada is the recommendation of the temple president. The departure of Srila Prabhupada is not the departure of His institutions. Srila Prabhupada is far more intelligent than Einstein and: “Mistakes, illusions, cheating and defective perception do not occur in the sayings of the authoritative sages.” (C.C.Adi 2.86) Accordingly with Srila Rupa Goswami the only one samskara (initiation) in kali yuga is the chanting of the holly name, not even the acceptance of a spiritual master, but some times an acarya descends to stablish the systems for worshiping. (Arcanna paddhati, introduction.) The books of Srila Prabhupada are an explanation of this point.
The ritvik system was stablished years before 1977 by Srila Pabhupada very intelligently and very strongly. We are talking about thousands of disciples in a very few years; some thing miracolous in a world wide organization. Initially Srila Prabhupada was sending the japa chanted by him with the name of the person and giving authorization to perform the ceremony. Afterwards Srila Prabhupada was sending the thread with the cassette and the authorization to perform the second initiation. But with the time; Srila Prabhupada was giving authorization to chant the japa, to give the name and to give the gayatry also. (ritvik-sanyasis.)
You can not find a word against the ritvik system in TFO. You say: “I am neither with ritvik nor with GBC.” Then; whats your proposition? With your position you are doing a weak favor to Srila Prabhupada. You are possing like an acarya but without philosophy a sentimentalist and a deprogramer. You are not a disciple of Srila Prabhupada but: “your servant in Srila Prabhupada’s service.” Appart of the contradictory, What kind of service is: “I am not with you.” you are like Ravana triyng to do a stairway to heaven but fighting against Rama. Now I am understanding less.
Hare Krsna.
Thanx for you response Dasanu dasa.
yes i am well aware of the history of iskcon. I have been affiliated with iskcon since 1975.
Your analysis is that if you are not a ritvik supporter or a Gbc supporter then what are you?
That is a ritvik mistake.
There are way more than two camps in iskcon and i am surprised you dont know that.
I follow Srila Prabhupada and His iskcon and i am also part of Iskcon.
Bhakti yoga is independent and free just like Narada Muni.
The “TFO” is a self defeating process by dint of its prejudicial, incomplete and reckless application of different evidences that have been connected by Mr Desai. I am certainly not going to follow a MR DESAI , why do you follow Mr Desai,he is not Srila Prabhupada nor even a representative in any shape or form.
If you read Defeat of Ritvik-Vada on the Sampradaya Sun site you will appreciate the extremely neophyte nature of “TFO” . It is well defeated from every angle.
your servant in the service of Srila Prabhupada, Dusyanta dasa.
Dusyanta dasa
You say: “I follow Srila Prabhupada and His iskcon and i am also part of Iskcon.”
Since you say that you follow Srila Prabhupada and His Iskcon, please tell us whether you agree with the following statements from Srila Prabhupada, or not:
“I am the spiritual master of this institution, and all the members of the society, they’re supposed to be my disciples. They follow the rules and regulations which I ask them to follow, and they are initiated by me spiritually.”
(Srila Prabhupada Radio Interview, 12/3/1968)
“The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I am the initiator guru, and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This I want.”
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, 4/8/1975)
If you do not agree with the above statements from Srila Prabhupada, then please tell us WHO is the initiator guru in ISKCON?
Hare Krsna.
Hare Krishna Dusyanta das?
“There are way more than two camps in iskcon”
In Iskcon really there is only one camp the ritvik camp, the gbc is an apasampradaya. I dont know whats the third camp or the fourth or the “N” camp in iskcon and I want to know about it from you.
“The “TFO””
The ritvik system is independent of your “divide and conquer, new man-made anti.ritvik bible.” I dont know why you fall in it again. dont go by the tangent. What is your “positive thing”?
“i am part of Iskcon”
We are not devotees of institutions but of Srila Prabhupada.
Srila Prabhupada: “Don’t try to manufacture some artificial process. The process I have already given. Now you simply have to follow it strictly and Krishna will give you all help.” ( 75-02-15)
“Regarding initiation, it is required that you be recommend by one of our temple presidents to me and then I shall consider it. First of all, one must have followed the regulative principle for at least six months without deviation. It is not necessarily required to live in the temple, but you must observe the rules.” (75-02-15)
“I have accepted upon your recommendation the three persons for 1st initiation and their names are as follows: Dave—Devarsi, Michele—Maladhari, Andrea—Abhaya. Their beads will be sent to you by separate post. I have also accepted Anantatma dasa for 2nd initiation. His thread and mantra sheet are enclosed herein. Let him hear the tape of myself chanting the gayatri mantra. It should be heard through the right ear. (75-02-16)
“I have accepted the two persons that you have recommended for 1st initiation. Their names are Michael—Muniraja, and Robin—Rajanatha. Their beads can be chanted by Kirtanananda Swami. Train them to be first class devotees by following very strictly all of our rule regulations, chanting at least 16 good rounds daily. (75-02-15)
“Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated Feb. 8th, 1975 and have noted the contents. Thank you for the photo of Sri Sri Radha Kunja-Bihari. It is very nice photo. They are looking very beautiful. I have accepted the following for 1st initiation: Bruce—Brajendralala, Miriam—Mukhya, Jeff—Jayavamana, Robin—Rajendranatha, Kim—Kaviraja, Karl—Kapiladeva, Sue—Sukti. Their beads may be chanted on by Satsvarupa Maharaja. Be sure and help them become first class devotees by following all the rules and regulations, very carefully, especially, they must rise early for mangala arati, chant at least 16 rounds and attend class.Your list of qualifications for choosing candidates for 2nd initiation is very good.
Regarding Rudra dasa, he can worship Gaura-Nitai in his home. The most important element for their worship is the chanting of the Hare Krishna Mantra. They can have at least one arati and whatever foodstuffs are prepared can be offered. Regarding my books, everyone should read. I am also reading. Everyone should be engaged 24 hours. That is the sum and substance. How much you should read and how much you should do other types of service, that has to be decided by each individual devotee. Eating and sleeping should be minimized—not a single moment should be misused. (75-02-15)