httpv://youtu.be/0GtQAThnvt8
video: Meanwhile at ISKCON Bangalore, Srila Prabhupada’s Book Marathon
Madhyama-adhikari Can Act as a Diksha Guru
BY: GOUR-GADADHARA DASA
Feb 25, 2013 — CROATIA (SUN) —
In the course of my regular reading of Srimad Bhagavatam, I’ve stumbled upon a nice quote from Srila Prabhupada in regard to the exchange going on between H.H. Bhakti Vikasa Swami and H.G. Sattvic Prabhu. Let me state that I’ve read the post with Sattvic Prabhu’s questions and listened the whole lecture given by Bhakti Vikasa Maharaja, answering all the points raised by Sattvic Prabhu.
In his article entitled “Conditioned Souls as Diksha Gurus? An Indefensible Position“, Sattvic Prabhu concludes with the following:
“A madhyam-adikary can act as guru but cannot act as a diksha guru, since the prospective disciple cannot advance under his insufficient guidance.
Only the liberated maha-bhagavata uttama-adikari can initiate disciples and perform the function of a diksha guru by dispensing divya jnana and removing the sinful reactions from the heart of the disciple.”
However, the following quote from Srila Prabhupada’s purport to Srimad Bhagavatam 2.3.21 says:
“As stated hereinbefore, there are three kinds of devotees of the Lord. The first-class devotee does not at all see anyone who is not in the service of the Lord, but the second-class devotee makes distinctions between devotees and nondevotees. The second-class devotees are therefore meant for preaching work, and as referred to in the above verse, they must loudly preach the glories of the Lord. The second-class devotee accepts disciples from the section of third-class devotees or nondevotees. Sometimes the first-class devotee also comes down to the category of the second-class devotee for preaching work.”
So, it’s very clear that the second-class devotee (aka madhyama-adhikari) is “meant for preaching work”, but also “second-class devotee accepts disciples from the section of third-class devotees or nondevotees.”
As far as first-class (aka uttama-adhikari) devotee is concerned, Srila Prabhupada says that: “Sometimes the first-class devotee also comes down to the category of the second-class devotee for preaching work”, which clearly shows that the conclusion, “Only the liberated maha-bhagavata uttama-adhikari can initiate disciples and perform the function of a diksha guru…” is simply not in accordance with the Bhaktivedanta purports.
your servant,
Gour-Gadadhara dasa
When Srila Prabhupada gives a direct order, such as the July 9, 1977 ISKCON management directive, then it is the duty of all of his disciples to simply follow blindly. Paraphrased, the directive states: “Within ISKCON, ritvik henceforward is hereby ordered.” There is no need for research into whether or not the order is bona fide or whether or not it contradicts something that Srila Prabhupada said earlier. Such research by the intellectual class rascals is simply a waste of time and energy.
This is explained in more detail on http://rtvik.com/ .
As a siksa guru.
Otherwise this is nonsense;
The 3rd offence in chanting of the holy name is to DISOBEY the spiritual master (Srila Prabhupada)
“The guru MUST be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service. There are three classes of devotees, and the guru MUST be accepted from the topmost class.”
….
“When one has attained the topmost position of maha-bhagavat, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshipped exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. ONLY SUCH A PERSON is eligible to occupy the post of a guru.”
(C.c. Madhya 24.330, purport)
NoD 8 Offenses to Be Avoided
The offenses against the chanting of the holy name are as follows: (3) TO DISOBEY THE ORDERS OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER.
Gour-Gadadhara dasa prabhu would you care to explain HOW an OFFENSIVE chanter can give Diksa?
They are now trying to JUSTIFY in ISKCON Madhyama can give diksa because EVERYONE KNOWS they are NOT Mahabhagavata.
Best to accept the RITVIK System July 9th 1977 ORDERED by Srila Prabhupada.
Hare Krsna!
ONE SHOULD NOT FOLLOW BLINDLY. ONE SHOULD INQUIRY SUBMISSIVELY.
Devotees who do not understand or in doubt should always ask or question.
Otherwise how to learn and advance in Krsna Consciousness?
For anything one does in devotional service there has to be a reason
and a purpose. One should be able to discriminate between right
and wrong. That is Intelligence.
The essence of Krsna Consciousness is Sri Krsna, The Supreme
Personality of Godhead. The goal in Krsna Consciousness is to
go back home, back to Godhead – Vaikuntha loka.
Devotional service in Krsna consciousness does not involve
wife beating, child molestation etc. etc. etc. or cheating
or lying etc. Married matajis especially should be careful
of those husbands who follow blindly if they do not want to
end up at the wrong end of the stick or in some cases the
wrong end of the belt for most part of their married lives.
Some devotees and temple presidents can be really foolish when
following Srila Prabhupada’s instructions. In Krsna Consciousness
unless one inquires how is one to learn and progress.
BLIND FOLLOWING ARE FOR THOSE FOOLS AND LESS INTELLINGENT
NAMELY SUDRAS.
This is what I have said all along, the GBC keeps voting for illicit sex with men, women and children as their messiahs and gurus, however my neighbor’s cat Mr. Snuffles does not engage in these deviations. Moreover, Mr. Snuffles has not ever molested, banned, beat or killed any vaishnavas, and in fact he wraps himself around the feet of the vaishnavas because he likes them. That means, the GBC is not advanced enough to worship Mr. Snuffles. That means they are fools who are less than sudras. I agree. ys pd
SG says: ONE SHOULD NOT FOLLOW BLINDLY. ONE SHOULD INQUIRY SUBMISSIVELY.
Generally speaking, this is true. However, there are exceptions, and the July 9, 1977 ISKCON management directive (letter to all temple presidents and to all GBC men) is one such exception.
From http://rtvik.com/?TP=2758 :
From begin with BACK TO PRABHUPADA MAGAZINE was meant to reanimate Prabhupada’s original movement. When treating a heart case, cardioplegia, doctors apply electroconvulsion therapy. However, after half a dozen shots, it’s over. Similarly, “ISKCON Revival Movement” for 20 years? At one point time is up and there is either parallel movement or revival process failed.
Whereas BACK TO GODHEAD Magazine is perpetual, different league. Besides, ISKCON’s reformers live in exile, excommunicated, work in dugouts, struggle in kali-yuga karmi ambience. To attack those brave, poor soldiers of not applying diacritics, not realy a nice gesture?
Are Vaishnava like that, no friendship, always pickig brains, investigate, expose and to humiliate each other?
We have to be fair, nobody knew how long ISKCON’s GBC would maintain their obstinacy to meanwhile present 43 false vyasasan-gurus to suffering humanity? And as things look right now, it will go on, no prospect of change in near future. One thing has changed, utmost secrecy. Whenever an ISKCON guru throws in the towel things go in camera, not open to the public.
Of course when procedures within a spiritual movement come so far of hide-and-seek policy, it might collapse soon.
ys
rrdd