Deviations of ISKCON Bangalore group of temples
from the original teachings of Srila Prabhupada
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SUMMARY AND INTRODUCTION
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Article written by Prabhupadanuga devotees of Hare Krishna Community.
(will be published here in several parts)
To know more about Hare Krishna Community – visit www.harekrishnacommunity.org
(Posted on the auspicious day of Srila Prabhupada’s appearance 19th August 2014)
We are writing this article with all respect to Madhu Pandit Prabhu and other devotees of Iskcon Bangalore group of temples but we are trying to follow the following principle for everyone’s benefit –
“So there is no harm if these facts are discussed in the society of devotees. Devotees always humbly offer respect to everyone, but when there is a discussion on a point of sastra, they do not observe the usual etiquette, satyam bruyat priyam bruyat. They speak only the satyam, although it may not necessarily be priyam. (Srila Prabhupada’s letter to Sumati Morarjee — Valencay, France, 7 August, 1976)
Please Note: In all future references we will use HKC for Hare Krishna Community, IB for Iskcon Bangalore, A.P for Akshay Patra, FOLK for Friends of Lord Krishna (a program of IB group to provide hostel facilities to students) and MPP for Madhu Pandit Prabhu.We have reproduced some mails written by MPP to Dayalu Nitai Prabhu in this article. These mails were uploaded by A.P, Jaipur devotees on Facebook in January 2014.
The purpose of writing this article is twofold:
1. To protect the faith of many innocent devotees around the world who are taking shelter of ISKCON Bangalore (IB) group thinking that they are the alternative to the current ISKCON which has deviated from so many original teachings of Srila Prabhupada. But the fact is that IB group is also becoming another version of the current ISKCON since they are also deviating from many original teachings of Srila Prabhupada.
Please refer to the following quote of Srila Prabhupada in this connection –
“A devotee should have intelligence to know who is deviating. Surrender by your intelligence but don’t surrender your intelligence.”
Srila Prabhupada letter to Bali Mardana, 1974
2. To appeal to IB group of devotees so that they can correct themselves and align themselves again in the line of Srila Prabhupada’s original teachings for everyone’s benefit.
Somebody may question at this point that to achieve purpose no. 2 one could have simply had a meeting with devotees of IB group and conveyed them these points instead of coming in an open forum like this. The answer to this is that many devotees have tried several times to point out these deviations so that things can be set right but in response to that devotees have been blocked on the facebook, branded as bogus, threatened about facing the consequences, false propaganda has been done to malign the devotees who are raising these questions etc. etc. A typical deviant ISKCON GBC response. So finally for the benefit and purification of everyone we have decided to raise these issues in public forum.
We have taken some case studies to substantiate our claim of devotees being ostracized by IB group whenever these devotees raised some questions/issues. Click on the following link to see the details – Case Studies of ill-treatment by A.P “devotees.
Any other devotees who have had similar experiences can write to us on hkc.jaipur@hotmail.com and we will include their experiences also in the current list of case studies after confirming their authenticity.
Another question which can be raised is that why we have noticed these deviations suddenly. Where were we from all these years? The answer to this is that we have been preaching in Jaipur since last 15 years but since last 5-6 years after Akshay Patra also started preaching in Jaipur their devotees have been doing negative propaganda against us just because we are not part of their group. Please see the article “Jaipur Struggle for truth part I and II” published on prabhupadanuga.eu on 29th April 2014 for details.
We were ignoring, tolerating and requesting the senior devotees to intervene and correct the situation but mostly we were concentrating on our preaching services and never went into the details of the working of IB group and A.P. and what Srila Prabhupada has said about the activities of IB group. We were thinking that although the A.P devotees are behaving like neophytes but at least they are following Srila Prabhupada’s instructions.
But in the last few months since the news about ill treatment of Hare Krishna Community (HKC) devotees by Akshay Patra (A.P) “devotees” has come out in the public forum, lots of devotees who were there with A.P earlier and many devotees who are still visiting A.P centers have been asking us lots of questions/doubts and telling us about their observations with regard to the working of IB group and A.P. They have been asking us whether all this is approved by Srila Prabhupada or not.
So we have done some research in this matter in the last few months and the findings of this research are shocking which we are publishing in this article for everyone’s benefit. Please refer to the following quote of Srila Prabhupada in this connection:
“So many mental speculators and word jugglers who have misled so many people. Now it is your task to find them out and expose them, so that the people may appreciate the real philosophy. We must become now very serious to save the people of the world from this very dangerous situation.”
Letter to Locana, Delhi, 24 November, 1971
Firstly we are reproducing below some of the observations/questions/doubts
being raised repeatedly by many devotees about the working of IB group and A.P:
1) Is Akshay Patra secular? If Akshay Patra is secular then how are they distributing Prasadam and having temples in Akshay Patra campus? What does Srila Prabhupada say about secularism?
2) Most of the employees who cook food in the A.P kitchens take intoxication in the form of bidi, cigarette or gutkha, many of them eat either meat, fish, eggs etc. then how can we call it prasadam? What does Srila Prabhupada say about it?
3) Why this so called prasadam is distributed by employees and there is no sankirtan, preaching or book distribution done along with this ‘prasadam’ distribution? What does Srila Prabhupada say about it?
4) A.P devotes get all the grains from the Govt. to cook this so called prasadam and also they are getting big money from big corporate houses then why do they collect money from the public in the name of feeding hungry children? Why do they give the receipt of ‘Hare Krishna Movement’ to most of their donors while the money is collected in the name of A.P for feeding children? What does Srila Prabhupada say about utilizing money collected in the name of food distribution?
5) Why A.P is engaged in philanthropic activities like selling customized food to patients in the hospitals (like sugar free food to diabetes patients etc.), organizing medical camps, participating in polio vaccination drives, giving money to poor children in the name of scholarship to pursue material education, organizing programs under the banner of WAHTS (We are here to serve) where girls are being trained in self-defense, drives for clean and green city etc.? What does Srila Prabhupada say about it?
6) Why does IB group of temples organize programs where it is advertised that for counteracting bodily diseases and material pains, in-fighting between family members and mental disturbances devotees will come and conduct sankirtana in the house? What does Srila Prabhupada say about the purpose of doing sankirtana?
Please Note: The above 6 questions are covered by us with proofs and solid evidences backed by the teachings of Srila Prabhupada under the heading Deviation 1 – “Engaging in philanthropic activities to get land and money from the Government and the public.” Please click on the tab “Deviation 1” given at the end of this page to know the details.
7) Why IB group is building luxurious villas and apartments with gymnasium, spa etc. in Vrindavan, for making money? What is the result of providing facilities for doing sense gratification in Vrindavan Dham?
8) Why IB group is claiming to make a skyscraper temple in Vrindavan Dham instead of establishing farm communities centered around cows and agriculture, opening gurukulas and establishing daivi varnasrma dharma? What does Srila Prabhupada say about life in Vrindavana?
9)Even after earning huge amount of money from real estate businesses, selling flats and properties, selling food items etc., why IB group is not building any temples on the huge pieces of land acquired from the govt. in the name of A.P? Bhoomi Poojan is done on most of these lands and some little construction is started and then they are just lying as 3-D drawings since so many years and these drawings are being utilized to collect money? Where all this money is going? What does Srila Prabhupada say about building costly temples?
10) Why FOLK hostels of A.P (which is the major source of all the young boys joining A.P) practice the following cut throat professional approach –
à Giving reduced or free food and accommodation to the students who can later on join A.P full time and collect money for them.
à If someone is showing signs of joining then he is given extra facilities, name, fame and all the brahamcharis treat him very nicely but if the same boy somehow decides not to join A.P but practice K.C while working outside then he is condemned, ostracized and made to feel miserable. Some boys have even committed suicide and many have developed psychiatric problems due to the pressure of guilt, obligation and “surrendering” everything to Krishna.
àA.P brahamcharis go to the extent of preaching in their closed circles that whatever money we are putting in to get some boy ready for joining will be recovered within a month when he goes to collect funds for A.P and if after putting in so much money he refuses to join then these ‘devotees’ openly say that we have invested so much money on you, given you free Prasadam and accommodation on reduced rates in our hostels for so many years, how can you refuse to join and collect money for A.P!!!
Where is Krishna Consciousness? Why somebody should be inspired to join the Hare Krishna Movement? What is purpose of dedicating one’s life for Srila Prabhupada’s mission? What is the actual mission of Srila Prabhupada – to make devotees of the Lord with all good qualities of the demigods so that they can escape this cycle of birth and death and go back to Godhead or something else? What is the quality of ‘devotees’ we are going to create if we follow the above mentioned philosophy of “preaching”? What does Srila Prabhupada say about it?
11) Why A.P devotees force the FOLK boys to join the temple full time by even giving them material allurements of sending money to their homes, paying off their loans, giving them commissions and salaries etc.? Why all the devotees who join IB group have only one service i.e collecting money which they call as LLP (Laxmi Liberation Program)? Why none of the full time devotees go for Street Sankirtan or Book distribution? Why IB group keeps paid employees for distributing Srila Prabhupada’s books in order to show some figures?
12) Why the FOLK boys and other full time devotees of IB group taught different tactics from mundane management books about how to extract maximum money from the public?
13) Why most of the devotees of IB group do not attend evening sadhana? Why the devotees who are collecting money allowed to come late in the night if they are able to collect more money? What does Srila Prabhupada say about the daily routine of an initiated disciple?
14) Why does IB group of temples use Orchesta, rock band etc. to perform sankirtana to attract people? Why professional singers sing in front of the deities even on important festivals like Janmashtmi while full time devotees are busy receiving their big donors? What does Srila Prabhupada say about it?
15) Why IB group of temples is introducing demigod worship and worship of other Vaisanava Sampradayas like observing ‘pausha bara’ on Hanuman Jayanti, installing and worshipping sudarshan chakra etc? What does Srila Prabhupada say about it?
16) Why IB group disrespects the deities by using them to collect money from public in the following manner –
àDoing Abhishek of the deity 5-6 times in a day on Janmashtmi to satisfy the large number of donors who have given a big amount for Abhishek Seva.
à Conducing Photography competitions of the deities and then given prizes to those photographs which are best while rejecting the other ones which are “not good”.
à Why the devotees are made to stand close to the deities during the festivals who are given the ‘service’ of forcing the public to give money to the deities?
17) Why IB group of temples have paid cooks to cook for the deities in spite of having first and second initiated full time devotees who are sent out for collecting money?
18) Why the brahamcharis in their temple allowed to ‘preach’ to matajis if some donation can be raised? Why the matajis allowed to cook with the brahmcharis wearing saffron in the kitchen? Why the brahamcharis who are found involved in acts of illicit relationship with women given protection if they are collecting good money? What does Srila Prabhupada say about it?
Please Note: The above 12 questions are covered by us with proofs and solid evidences backed by the teachings of Srila Prabhupada under the heading Deviation 2 – “Creating an illusion of building costly temples to collect money while ignoring the real sankirtan movement of Srila Prabhupada.”Please click on the tab “Deviation 2” ” given at the end of this page to know the details.
19) Why GBC of IB group of temples does not have any senior devotees from other Prabhupadanuga groups of other countries? Why IB group never invites other Prabhupadanuga devotees where these things can be discussed? Why there is centralized way of working? Why some of the GBC’s of IB group of temples have not even been Temple Presidents what to speak of opening new centers which is the main duty of GBC as per Direction of Management (DOM)? What is DOM as given by Srila Prabhupada?
20) Why the devotees (specially the new bhaktas) allowed to read only selected small books of Srila Prabhupada? Why the new bhaktas trained not to ask questions or quote from Srila Prabhupada’s teachings about anything happening around them and taught to simply surrender to the temple authorities unconditionally since they cannot understand Srila Prabhupada directly?
21) Why IB group of temples do not have the culture of hearing from Srila Prabhupada’s lectures? Why lectures of MPP are recorded and made available to the devotees for hearing when thousands of recorded lectures of Srila Prabhupada are available?
22) Why MPP has created so many trusts like A.P, HKM, SST, Touchstone, Basic Foundation etc. etc. ? Why he is the main trustee and chairman of all these trusts?
23) Why IB group of temples is adopting the following material principles from corporate sectors for management –
à keeping female receptionists and secretaries,
à men and women employees working together even late in the night
à targets for brahamcharis for collecting money, analysis – appraisals -incentives and promotions even to the full time devotees based on how much money they are collecting, automatic punch machines for recording attendance in Mangal Arti and collection amounts of each devotee and then deducting from the salaries and commissions of the devotees based on their performance.
àkeeping the important devotees who are collecting good money satisfied by giving them extra material facilities like posts, car, air conditioners , luxurious offices, opulent ‘prasadam’ while the other devotees who are not able to collect money are treated as not very important even though they have been in the movement for a long time.
What does Srila Prabhupada say about all this?
PleaseNote: The above 5 questions are covered by us with proofs and solid evidences backed by the teachings of Srila Prabhupada under the heading Deviation 3 – “Centralization and Fancy Management.” Please click on the tab “Deviation 3” given at the end of this page to know the details.
24) Why the High Court of Karnataka, India has given the following order in para 70 of the judgement against Madhu Pandit Prabhu (MPP) –
“Further, Madhupandit Das, his wife Bhakti Lata Devi Dasi, his co-brother Chanchalapati Das, his wife’s sister Chamari Devi Dasi and other close associates cooked up reports specifying the names of these persons as elected office bearers of plaintiff society and filed the same in the office of Registrar of Societies for the first time on 21.08.2001 for the entire period of 12 years from 1989 to 2001. As already stated these reports are cooked up for the purpose of giving life to the defunct plaintiff society.”
Why has MPP forged the papers for getting hold of the temple of Bangalore? What does Srila Prabhupada say about following the law of the land?
25) Why MPP is drifting from his ritvik stand in his meetings with the Iskcon GBC members? Why MPP has proposed to Iskcon GBC that he would consider the possibility of implementing first initiation by Srila Prabhupada and second initiation by the regular pancaratrika gurus appointed by the GBC? Where does Srila Prabhupada talk about such an initiation system?
26) Why Iskcon Bangalore pays money to some “devotees” to write articles and falsely malign the character of anyone on the Internet who speaks against them even if he is talking the truth directly from the teachings of Srila Prabhupada?
27) Why IB group is installing mostly Krishna Balaram deities while Srila Prabhpada installed Sri Radha Krishna and Gaur Nitai? Why IB group of temples take Krishna Balaram on Ratha Yatra rather than Jagannatha, Baladev and Subhadra? What does Srila Prabhupada say about it?
28) Why in all the temples of IB group Srila Prabhupada’s deity is in a mudra which is normally shown as a sign of devil? Did Srila Prabhupada ever show such a mudra of his fingers during his manifested lila on this planet?
PleaseNote: The above 5 questions are covered by us with proofs and solid evidences backed by the teachings of Srila Prabhupada under the heading Deviation 4 – “In the name of serving Srila Prabhupada.” Please click on “Deviation 4” given at the end of this page to know the details.
So in the past few months we have been spending some time trying to confirm whether the IB group is working in this deviated way or not. To our surprise we have found that almost all the observations/questions raised above are true to the letter and is completely opposed to the teachings and desires of Srila Prabhupada. Finally we decided to bring the result of all this research in public forum for everyone’s benefit. We will be discussing each of the above 28 questions/observations with solid proofs and evidences backed by Srila Prabhupada’s teachings.
Please refer to the following quotes of Srila Prabhupada in this connection –
A person who knows things as they are and still does not bear witness becomes involved in sinful activities.”Cc. Madhya 5.90
We have listed the findings of our research under the headings Deviation1, Deviaton2 etc. Right now the readers have to be satisfied by reading Devation1 only which is also partially completed. The rest of the portions of Deviation 1 and other deviations are being prepared. Very shortly we will upload them also.
Posted on the auspicious day of Srila Prabhupada’s Appearance Day – 19th Augsut, 2014
for the information of all the devotees who have a desire to preserve and propogate the
original teachings of Srila Prabhupada since this is the only hope for the suffering humanity.
Click on the following links to read the details (inactive/missing links are work in progress)
DEVIATION 1: Engaging in philanthrophic activities to get land and money from the Government and the public.
DEVIATION 2: Creating an illusion of building costly temples to collect money while ignoring the real sankirtan movement of Srila Prabhupada.
DEVIATION 3: Centralization and Fancy Management.
DEVIATION 4: In the name of serving Srila Prabhupada.
Deviations of ISKCON Bangalore group of temples from the original teachings of Srila Prabhupada
Case Studies of ill-treatment by A.P Devotees
“JAIPUR STRUGGLE FOR TRUTH – I’ and “JAIPUR STRUGGLE FOR TRUTH – II“
It simply says ; ” Article written by Prabhupadanuga devotees of Hare Krishna community ”
which makes me curious to know who is that responsible person in charge of writing and posting the above mentioned article on this public forum ?
Thank you, Prabhus.
Hari BOL. AGTSP.
Wow, what a big list ! I’m not one to point the finger really. In the eyes of ISKCON Bangalore they must believe they are working to please Srila Prabhupada. Service which is ideally meant to be pure devotion takes on many forms in this material plane ranging from that in the base mode of ignorance on up to goodness and then to transcendental. So as pointed out there are many discrepencies which cannot classify all the service as pure devotion.
Srila Prabhupada did envision KC on a grand scale, however in order for this movement to expand in a grand way while remaining pure, it will likely require many generations of purification starting from the grassroots level, which apparently is what Hare Krishna Community is trying to establish. As soon as any movement or religion becomes a massive wide scale operation, it will always become polluted by the influences of name, fame, position, wealth etc.
So what can be done ? These people believe they are pushing forward KC on a grand scale as envisioned by Prabhupada, but are simultaneously becoming in entangled in the pitfalls of material growth without proportionate spiritual advancement. The spiritual progress is apparently a very gradual process, and when there is too much material growth before sufficient purufucation, the above situation will be the result.
What Krsna’s plan is, who can really say. We say that ultimately everything must be sanctioned by the Lord. For Bangalore to make suvh huge material gains surely must also be sanctioned by the Lord. Whether this situation will eventually become purified can only remain to be seen. It is most amazing yet how much duality has arisen even causing differences amongst Prabhupada devotess. Lets hope that all of this is just part of growing up, growing pains in the maturing process of spiritual growth. It all seems very immature at this stage, so evidently there is just alot of growing up for this movement to do.
I have heard all this claims before and I am tied hearing it. There is NO hard evidence to prove your point. From past few months ISKCON Truth has investigated about this matter and surprisingly we have not even received a single original mail sent from madhu pandit das ID to Dayalu Nitai Prabhu (X-member of ISKCON Bangalore).
You guys need to investigate then just putting up things. Prove your point with hard evidence, mail it to admin@iskcontruth.com and we will stand beside you and protest against ISKCON Bangalore temple.
Hare Krishna prabbhus
I was hearing that bangalore is deviating , now here it is for everyone to see. Now Madhu pandit is a big corporate, no concern with Prabhupada’s original teachings. Using Prabhupada’s philosophy for anything and everything rather than making suffering humanity Krishna conscious.
I am amazed that there is no one in IB to see such deviations !!!!
Yours
Bhakta John
26) Why Iskcon Bangalore pays money to some “devotees” to write articles and falsely malign the character of anyone on the Internet who speaks against them even if he is talking the truth directly from the teachings of Srila Prabhupada?
Latest from IB online spokesman Tim Lee (PADA/Puranjana):
http://krishna1008.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/hare-krishna-society-jaipur-update.html
@ISKCONTRUTH:
“From past few months ISKCON Truth has investigated about this matter and surprisingly we have not even received a single original mail sent from madhu pandit das ID to Dayalu Nitai Prabhu (X-member of ISKCON Bangalore).”
Just so that i understand your investigation , what did you investigated and how you reached to the conclusion that there wasnt a SINGLE email sent by MPP to Dayalu Nitai Prabhu .
Regards
Suren
HKC … I agree with the statement made by admin@iskcontruth.com which reads as ;
” You guys need to investigate then just putting up things. Prove your point with hard evidence, mail it to admin@iskcontruth.com and we will stand beside you and protest against ISKCON Bangalore temple. ”
That is why I ask for the name of person in charge who is the leader responsible for the article who has posted here on this forum but thus far no answer from HKC.
I wonder WHY ?
I am hopeful that somebody from HKC may answer to my questions soon.
Hari BOL. AGTSP.
I said before that IB and it’s group of temples is all about men and money and this article pretty much proves it.
Here is IB’s plan………
At all costs make men and money.
At all costs send those men out to make even more men and money.
Then at all cost send out all of the new and old men to make more men and money.
Then doing or saying whatever it takes, send out every available man women and child and make more men and money.
The whole programs just steam rolls along squashing everyone that has a complaint, objection, question, etc.
The whole scheme reminds me of the old days of Kirtananada/ new vrindavan and Tamal krsna/ Radha Damodara . If we get what we want then the hell with everybody else and if we don’t get what we want the we will make your life miserable.
These folks need a reality check big time but other than Krsna I’m, not sure who will do it.
I used to support IB but no more!
OFS
At the PRESENT moment India is slaughtering THOUSANDS of cows and many are ALSO sent to Bangladesh for slaughtering especially during big Muslim festivals. THIS means there will be COLLECTIVE REACTIONS. The mass of people will suffer the Karma and War can take place ANYTIME.
The POINT that EVERYONE is MISSING is what will happen when there is a BIG war between India and Pakistan. Pakistan is very unsteady nation and attacks are based on religious BIG structures ALSO. What will be the result of BIG temples?
When the conventional war takes place and it is found that if one party is weak then they DO USE the Atom bomb just like USA used the Atom Bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in Japan. Japan attacked Pearl Harbour, Hawaii BUT when America did not have other conventional war capabilities IT DID USE the atom bomb.
FACTS are India’s OPEN POLICY is NO FIRST USE of nuclear bomb HENCE they INVITE terrorists such as what took place in Mumbai attacks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Mumbai_attacks
In war the BIG places are hit first. Cities are BIG targets and Mumbai, Delhi, Bangalore are HIGH risk places due to being ECONOMIC hubs. Vrindavan is NEAR Delhi.
THE FIRST PARTY WHO WILL DROP THE BOMB ON THE OTHER PARTY, HE WILL BE VICTORIOUS, AND IMMEDIATELY THE WAR WILL STOP
750616mw.hon
Prabhupāda: We. [break] There was an artificial famine in India and I particularly inquired from all devotees whether they have got any problem in this famine. They said, “No, we haven’t got.” I have taken the statistics. In 1942 the artificial famine created by government… So there were big earthquake in Bihar. At that time one of my godbrother, he was government auditor. So I inquired. In that earthquake only his house was saved. I have seen it many times. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na mebhaktaḥ praṇaśyati [Bg. 9.31]. That is the only….
samāśritā ye pada-pallava-plavaṁ
mahat-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ
bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padaṁ paraṁ padaṁ
padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām
[SB 10.14.58]
Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām. It is not meant for them, all these dangerous condition. Now the nuclear war means it will not continue very long. THE FIRST PARTY WHO WILL DROP THE BOMB ON THE OTHER PARTY, HE WILL BE VICTORIOUS, AND IMMEDIATELY THE WAR WILL STOP. They are simply arranging how to drop the atom bomb first. So one who will be able to drop the bomb first, he will be victorious. It doesn’t require long time. Just like in Japan, as soon as the Americans dropped the atom bomb in Hiroshima, immediately they surrendered. This will be the result. Now the question is who will be able to drop the bomb first.
750404mw.may Conversations
Tamala Krsna: Next war…?
Prabhupada: Your country, America, is very much eager to kill these Communists. And the Communists are also very eager. So very soon there will be war. AND PERHAPS INDIA WILL BE THE GREATEST SUFFERER.
Tamala Krsna: Greatest…?
Devotees: Sufferer.
Srutakirti: Sufferer.
Prabhupada: Because America is aiming to start the war from India.
Devotee: Oh!
Prabhupada: Yes. Because India and Russia, they are…
Brahmananda: They are… Friendship.
Prabhupada: No. Side by side. If the war is started from India…
Rupanuga: So India will become…
Prabhupada: And the Russians are ready here already, I have heard, with soldiers and… Not soldiers. I mean to say.
Hamsaduta: Missiles.
Prabhupada: Yes. They are also vigilant.
Visnujana: Will that help our preaching, Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Preaching will be very nice after the war when both of them, especially Russia, will be finished.
Rupanuga: They want to make India the battleground?
Paramahamsa: Also, Prabhupada, Atreya Rsi said that the Arabs are preparing for the war. They’re buying billions and billions of dollars worth of missiles and jets and tanks from America.
Prabhupada: Yes, so they are being prepared. War will soon start.
Visnujana: The Arab men all go to America to be trained in the armed forces there.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Visnujana: In all the armed forces centers in America, they train the Arab nations to fight.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Visnujana: They let the young men come into the U.S.A. to learn how to use the missiles and everything.
Pancadravida: Recently, this Bhutto of Pakistan, he was very happy because they were talking about lifting a ten-year holding on arms from the United States, and now, they say, Pakistan will soon get arms from America.
Prabhupada: Yes, they are getting. They are already getting. THE PAKISTAN WILL START THE WAR WITH INDIA. And then everything will be…
Devotees: Oh! Whew!
Devotee: Pakistan will start a war… (devotees talking among themselves.)
Pancadravida: They have started the war maybe eight times.
Prabhupada: (Aside:) Hmm? No, we can go.
Pancadravida: What will the devotees do while the war is going on?
Prabhupada: Chant Hare Krsna.
Devotees: Jaya! (laughter)
Prabhupada: You have got only business.
Pancadravida: Will we stay in the cities or will…?
Prabhupada: We can stay anywhere. We have got our Mayapur, Vrndavana. But the danger is the government will say that “All Americans go away.” That is the danger. I am thinking of that position. What shall I do at that time?
Pusta Krsna: Take Indian citizenship?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Pusta Krsna: Indian citizenship?
Prabhupada: If you take, it is very nice. Then they will ask you to go to war. (laughter)
Tamala Krsna: Will this war spread to many different countries and continents?
Prabhupada: The actual war will be between America and Russia.
Rupanuga: What about British devotees, British citizens? Would the British be asked to leave, British citizens? Commonwealth citizens?
Prabhupada: Britishers are now finished. They have no importance.
Pancadravida: He means if British devotees came to India, would they be asked to leave.
Prabhupada: No, no, I mean to say… I am speaking of politics. Devotees are the same… Oh, British citizens…? They may…
Rupanuga: You say the Americans might have to leave. What about the British?
Prabhupada: But they, generally, during wartime…
Visnujana: Everyone.
Prabhupada: …they ask all foreigners.
Tamala Krsna: Oh, I see.
Jayapataka: During the last war, the Christian Mission of Krishnanagar, they had many Italian priests also, but the government gave them permission to stay, although India was at war with Italians.
Prabhupada: In the missionary consideration, they can do that.
Jayadvaita: What will be the position with the Chinese if the Russians and Americans fight?
Prabhupada: Well I am not a politician. (laughter) China does not war, not want war. They want to…
Tamala Krsna: Develop.
Prabhupada: Construct.
Rupanuga: They’re not ready.
Prabhupada: Yes. They are not very much interested in war.
Paramahamsa: Srila Prabhupada, you said that this war will destroy the demonic civilization.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Paramahamsa: DOES THAT MEAN THAT IT’LL DESTROY ALL THE CITIES AND ALL THE INDUSTRIES?
Prabhupada: WAR MEANS DESTRUCTION OF ALL CITIES. THAT IS NATURAL. YOU HAVE GOT EXPERIENCE IN EUROPE SO MANY TIMES.
Hamsaduta: Cities and industries.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Hamsaduta: Cities and industries.
Prabhupada: YES, THAT IS THE MAIN TARGET.
751214mw.del Conversations
Prabhupada: This is sudra. If anyone depends on the master’s mercy, he’s a sudra. Here in New Delhi, these big, big buildings, big, big officers, as soon as the government will fail, they will be street dogs, that’s all. Now they are plundering, by official instrument. NOW WHEN THE GOVERNMENT WILL BE FINISHED, THEY WILL BE STREET DOG. THAT’S ALL. THIS IS YOUR CIVILIZATION. IMMEDIATELY IF ALL OF A SUDDEN THERE IS ATTACK IN NEW DELHI, ALL THE PEOPLE WILL STARVE. THERE IS NO FOOD AT ALL, AND THEY’LL DIE.
731201SB.LA Lectures
Prabhupada: Very important verse, hm? Tad abhud asad isa-riktam. Everything will be null and void when there is no God. That’s all. The modern civilization has got everything, but without God consciousness, any moment it will be finished. And there are symptoms… Any moment. AT THE PRESENT MOMENT, THIS GODLESS CIVILIZATION, AS SOON AS THERE IS DECLARATION OF WAR, THE AMERICA IS PREPARED TO DROP ATOM BOMB, RUSSIA IS… THE FIRST NATION WHO WILL DROP THE ATOM BOMB, HE WILL BE VICTORIOUS. NOBODY WILL BE VICTORIOUS, BECAUSE BOTH OF THEM ARE READY TO DROP. THE AMERICA WILL BE FINISHED AND RUSSIA WILL BE FINISHED. THAT IS THE POSITION. So you may make advancement of civilization, scientific improvement, economic development, but if it is godless, at any moment it will be finished. At any moment.
730711BG.LON Lectures
THEN DURYODHANA, FIRST OF ALL HE POINTED OUT THE MILITARY STRENGTH OF THE OPPOSITE SIDE. THIS IS INTELLIGENCE. ONE SHOULD TAKE CALCULATION OF THE OPPOSING ELEMENTS OR THE ENEMY’S SIDE. IN FIGHTING THE FIRST THING IS TO TAKE ESTIMATION OF THE ENEMY’S SIDE, HOW MUCH THEY ARE STRONG, HOW THEY HAVE ARRANGED. THEN ONE SHOULD CALCULATE HOW TO COUNTERACT, HOW TO FIGHT WITH THEM, THIS IS INTELLIGENCE. WITHOUT TAKING ANY CALCULATION OF THE OTHER SIDE, IF YOU ARE NOT PREPARED, THEN HOW YOU CAN BECOME VICTORIOUS? This is sane proposal, that is, upayan cintayet prajno apayan ca cintayet.. A prajna, an intelligent man, not only think of the bright side on this business, or this fight, or this any…, so many things we have to deal with. SIMPLY WE SHOULD NOT CALCULATE THE BRIGHTER SIDE. THERE IS DARKER SIDE ALSO. WE SHOULD ALWAYS THINK, “IF THERE IS SOME THIEF, IF THERE IS SOME ROGUE, THEY CHEAT US, THEN WHAT PRECAUTION I AM GOING TO TAKE?” THIS IS INTELLIGENCE. IF I SIMPLY CALCULATE THAT “IN THIS BUSINESS I WILL MAKE SO MUCH PROFIT.” IN THE MEANTIME, SOMEBODY COMES AND CHEATS ME AND GO AWAY, THEN… THEREFORE UPAYAN CINTAYET PRAJNA APAYAN CA CINTAYET. DARKER SIDE ALSO SHOULD BE THOUGHT OF. THAT IS INTELLIGENCE. JUST LIKE THEY ARE DOING. AFTER CALCULATING THE DARKER SIDE–ENEMY MEANS DARKER SIDE–THEY CAN DEFEAT ME AT ANY MOMENT. THAT IS DARKER SIDE.
731204SB.LA Lectures
JUST LIKE AT THE PRESENT MOMENT THE POLITICIANS, AS SOON AS THEY SEE THAT THEY CANNOT MANAGE THINGS, IN THE COUNTRY THERE IS CONFUSION, THEY DECLARE SOME WAR SO THAT THE WHOLE ATTENTION MAY BE TURNED THAT SIDE, AND THERE WILL BE NO AGITATION OF THE INTERNAL DISSATISFACTION. This is diplomacy. This is diplomacy. We have seen it in Pakistan. As soon as they cannot rule over, they cannot, but they (indistinct), “Oh, the Hindus are our enemy. Kashmir, he has taken.” ATTENTION IS DIVERTED AND THEY DECLARE WAR, AND AGAIN BECOME DEFEATED.
Hare Krishna Amar Puri
All glories to Srila Prabhupada
Prabhu why you are asking for writer when it it already answered in the beginning of the article:
“Article written by Prabhupadanuga devotees of Hare Krishna Community.”
Why you are not talking about the 27 questions ? Or even if it is not mentioned who is the leader behind this, so what , see the issues. That is more important. If somebody criticizes the deviations of bogus GBC or Bogus Guru will you ask him for his identity ?? Deviated is deviated.
I am shocked after reading the 27 points.
Read the links for HARD EVIDENCES
http://ibdeviations.blogspot.in/2014/08/engaging-in-philanthrophic-activities.html
http://ibdeviations.blogspot.in/2014/08/case-studies-of-ill-treatment-by-ap.html
You are supporting ISKCON TRUTH , has ISKCON TRUTH checked the inbox of Dayalu Nitai or outbox of Madhu Pandit ?
By the way in the article Jaipur Struggle for Truth I & II the mails between MPD and DND were also published and i think you are also one of the devotees who commented there alot.
Here in this article also dates are given
In Madhu Pandit Prabhu’s (MPP’s) own words in his letter to Dayalu Nitai Prabhu on Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 10:46 PM–
“Akshay Patra trustees want the organization to be secular. It cannot associate publicly with religious mission. And it has nothing to do with vision of the kind of your vedic village.”
Yours
Bhakta John
it is really sad to see the ramblings and rantings of PADA in defense of Madhu Pandit and IB. Any credibility MPD had, has been erased by PADA and his attacking anyone who speaks the truth about IB. PADA has nothing to say except to lie and try and connect HKC Jaipur to the GBC. This is something that he can’t do, he can just claim that they support the GBC, or that they cite the courts that found MPD guilty of fraud and will soon find even more IB devotees guilty of fraud. The courts do not [care] about acharyas, gurus or philosophy else except in regards to the laws. MPD and IB and Mumbai have all been found guilty. [snipped by webmaster]
Important challenge to all “ritviks” and whoever is complicit with supporting Bangalore and co. by not speaking out and disassociating themselves with them, as a result of their obvious deviations and criminal activities
Do you not see a problem with the accusations being levied upon Bangalore/ISKCON inc./Yashodananda and co. etc… ? They are very real and serious accusations. Many of which I have, through independent research, have found to be true. They are destroying the faith that the real sincere ritviks have in the system in which Srila Prabhupda has given us via the July 9th mandate. You are giving ammunition to the enemy..giving them full facility to go on unhindered in their systematic destruction of Srila Prabhupada’s credibility.
Srila Prabhupada said if you do not say anything when there is sinful activity happening, you are also complicit in the sin incurred.
By choosing not to take part in this discussion about what to do about this crisis, by not acknowledging a problem, you are acquiescing with the sinners, therefore becoming spiritually bereft…doomed…you cannot call yourself Prabhupadanugas whilst at the same time IGNORING the serious accusations being levied here against Bangalore, Prabhupada wanted warriors…arjunas….not blind followers scared of confronting the very real enemy, Kali , head on.
Think about it, this is the only movement in the WORLD that has seriously attracted the attention of KALI and his personal associates, do you really not think it is possible for the ritviks also to be seriously compromised? Do some introspective thinking, and research…
Speak up… let your voices be heard.
I will leave you with this:
“Without cheating anyone we should boldly speak the truth to everyone. If the truth is bitter or unpopular but bestows blessings on the living entities, we must speak it. This will not ultimately cause them anxiety.[…..].Unless we speak the truth boldly we cannot please guru and Gauranga. The more determined one is in devotional service, the bolder and more courageous he will be as a preacher.If I fail to speak the impartial truth because I might become unpopular, I have certainly abandoned the path of my disciplic succession and accepted an unauthorized path. In the end I will either find myself cheated or will become an atheist.” (Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura)
Mahash Raja Prabhu cites many interesting quotes by His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada who was very intuitive and perceptive on the subject of political diplomacy and the way the world dynamic of politics and power are enacted. This does not mean however that Srila Prabhupada was himself a politician but rather as the MOST qualified personality, brahminically it is required that in order to ‘advise’ and impart real knowledge to society at large one should have a deep understanding of all of the other varnas, ashrams and the ‘modus operandi’ of the balance of power (or lack of it!) between the asuric powers of the material world. As we are entering a very dangerous time with the increase of religious fanaticism (from all of the worlds so called religions) and greater intolerance between them, which has already begun to manifest itself in extreme cruelty, torture, destruction, terrorism and complete hypocrisy it is surely something of great concern to us in the light of Srila Prabhupadas’ words.
In the process of disseminating spiritual knowledge in a world of ignorance, there is the tendency to “overlook” certain ”discrepancies” or ”mistakes” as we are not ourselves perfect and there is always some fault in our endeavours, but throughout this whole process we have to constantly ‘temper’ our words and deeds with self analysis by and by the sincere scrutiny of the general vaisnava community depending on His Divine Grace as the only guiding principal. Failure to do this will INEVITABLY result in us falling victim to the demonic influences of lobha, pratistha and deviation we have so often been presented with in the past until it becomes ENDEMIC due inexperience or a lack of will, eventuating into some sort of Machiavellian, totalitarian regime with no accountability, transparency, due process or relevancy or adherence to the Divine instructions of Srila Prabhupada and previous Acharyas.
The creation of MATERIAL ALLIANCES with the Hindu and Mayavadi groups together with the construction of ‘skyscraper monstrosity’ in the Holy Dham of Sri Vrndavana will undoubtably become a ‘prime target’ for terrorists and ‘wacko’s of other violent, pseudo religious extreme groups. This building is the representation of madness in the extreme and a direct affront to His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada and all of the previous Acharyas. This is going to end very badly.
In the words of William Hearst…….”The love of liberty is the love of others; The love of power is the love of ourselves”
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
Dear Janardana Das Prabhu !
Deviations and deviations can be different. Because Srila Prabhupada tells us the following:
A devotee should always see that his Vaiṣṇava qualities increase with the advancement of his Kṛṣṇa consciousness. A devotee should be blameless because any offense by the devotee is a scar on the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The devotee’s duty is to be always conscious in his dealings with others, ESPECALLY with ANOTHER DEVOTEE of the Lord.
( SB.3.16.5.)
The Bhagavad-gita ‘s last verse :
“Wherever there is Kṛṣṇa, the master of all mystics, and wherever there is Arjuna, the supreme archer, there will also certainly be opulence, victory, extraordinary power, and morality. That is my opinion.”
Purport:
“The Bhagavad-gītā began with an inquiry of Dhṛtarāṣṭra. He was hopeful of the victory of his sons, assisted by great warriors like Bhīṣma, Droṇa and Karṇa. He was hopeful that the victory would be on his side. But, after describing the scene in the battlefield, Sañjaya told the King, “You are thinking of victory, but my opinion is that WHERE KRSNA AND ARJUNA ARE PRESENT , there will be all good fortune.” …”
Please see>> https://www.facebook.com/IskconTruth/posts/253267338130830
[post probably was deleted there. webmaster]
Iskcon Truth wrote: “we are a publication come under press laws therefore we need hard evidence to prove any point if we get in trouble.”
Yet they published Tim Lee’s “Truth Revealed” article which is nothing but crazed ranting, blatant lies and offensive slander! Perhaps they could also explain why they deleted all the comments made by devotees under that article? And why they have blocked me and others from commenting on their FB page?
So-called Iskcon “Truth”. [snipped by webmaster]
Hari bol prabhus
Link shared by Prahlad Das is not found ? Has ISKCON TRUTH removed it ? Why this duplicity ?
Yes i saw the below article published by Iskcon Truth and written by mad Tim Lee aka Puranjana.
http://www.iskcontruth.com/2014/05/prabhupadanugas-against-madhu-pandit.html
I think after reading the above article by devotees of Hare Krishna Community, many devotees have doubted their support for IB group.
Yours
Bhakta John
‘ISKCON Truth’ say>>
“ISKCON Truth website dissociates with the entire iskcon community. It becomes a private online news agency publishing real facts. The company which handles ISKCON Truth also has several websites. Now ISKCON Truth came out of the clutches of ISKCON Community on the whole, It can now publish hidden truth without editing or censorship.”
They say they will “publish truth without editing or censorship”? But they have deleted ALL the comments which question IB/AP (even those which are only Prabhupada’s quotes) AND they have blocked those devotees from commenting. Unbelievable hypocrisy and duplicity. Who are these cheaters who run ‘ISKCON Truth’ websites?