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The Facts About Srila Prabhupada’s Poisoning by Arsenic
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– Someone Has Poisoned Me – Part 8
BY: NITYANANDA DAS
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“So as Krishna was attempted to be killed… And Lord Jesus Christ was killed.
So they may kill me also.” (Srila Prabhupada, May 3, l976, Honolulu)
“my only request is , that at the last stage don’t torture me, and put me to death”
(from SPC Vol. 36, November 3, 1977 tape recorded Room Conversation)
Part 8 – Chapter 12 to Chapter 16
[PLEASE NOTE: ADDRESSES, EMAILS, PHONE
NUMBERS ETC. MIGHT NO LONGER BE CORRECT!]
CHAPTER 16:
“SOMEONE HAS POISONED ME”
Now we come to the evidence which is to many is the strongest evidence that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned. (see Appendix 18) Srila Prabhupada stated “…someone has poisoned me,” found on tape recordings from November 9 and 10, 1977. Some portions were spoken in English and thus have been widely available in the Archives Folio program or in the Conversations Books, but much was spoken in Bengali or Hindi, which was omitted due to not being translated by the Archives or anyone else.
Now, for the first time in 22 years, this report presents newly obtained translations of Bengali and Hindi portions of these same conversations. One version comes from a Hindi devotee, Naveen Krishna Prabhu, a GBC and a longtime Srila Prabhupada faithful. The other translation comes from Dr. Jan Brzezinski, who also gave us the exact Bengali and Hindi being translated. Dr. Brzezinski learned to speak fluent Bengali and Hindi during his eleven years in India. He was seriously injured in the Muslim attack on Mayapur that is mentioned in the health biography. He later received his Ph.D. in Sanskrit from the University of London, School of Oriental Studies. He has taught courses in Hindi at the University of Manitoba, and his current work is translating various Vaishnava literatures. Dr. Brzezinski was employed by this reporter to render these translations.
Much of the Bengali and Hindi conversation regarding poisoning is between Srila Prabhupada the Calcutta kaviraja, also referred to as Sastriji. Dr. Brzezinski has listened to many of the last twenty tapes and has made some interesting notes included at the end of this chapter. It is clear that a full and accurate translation of all of Srila Prabhupada’s Hindi and Bengali conversations should be done, as information critical to the poison issue may well be contained therein. Upon inquiry, this reporter learned that the Bhaktivedanta Archives has not had the manpower or funding to undertake this project, although past attempts were made but did not produce results.
In speaking to Naveen Krishna about his translations, he pointedly stated that only a native of India who was born and raised with the language could accurately understand the subtle nuances and meanings contained within these conversations. From his own judgment, he has no doubt that Srila Prabhupada was clearly stating that He was being poisoned. Translations by Naveen Krishna are shown as NAV, those by Dr. Brzezinski (formerly Hiranyagarbha das, initiated by Srila Prabhupada 1970) are shown as HIR, followed at the end by his comments. Thus we have both a scholar and a native providing us with two versions to compare and to be doubly sure of the true meanings, avoiding the curse of the phrase, “lost in the translation.” Sometimes we have only one translation version because, simply, that is all we obtained. Bhakticharu Swami has also translated most of these same portions in exactly the same way, and this was posted on the internet in ISKCON’s answer to the CD that never was. (see Appendix 21)
[Translation by HIR = Hiranyagarbha das (Dr. Brzezinski)]
[Translation by NAV = Naveen Krishna Das]
Room Conversation: Vrindaban, November 9, 1977. (Not the 8th)
Srila Prabhupada’s Conversations Books, Volume 36, page 354:
Book states: “Hindi conversation between kaviraja, Prabhupada and others.”
(Balaram Mishra exchanges greetings with Srila Prabhupada, and asks if he is still recognized since they had not met in a long time; Srila Prabhupada says yes. A few moments later:)
001: Srila Prabhupada: Keu bole je keu poison kore diyeche. Hoy to tai. [(((audio)))]
NAV: Someone says that I’ve been poisoned. It’s possible.
HIR: Someone says that someone gave poison. Maybe it’s true.
002: Balaram Mishra (?): Hmm? [(((audio)))]
003: Kaviraja: Kya farma rahe hain? [(((audio)))]
NAV: What is he saying?
HIR: What are you saying?
004: Srila Prabhupada: Koi bolta hai je koi mujhko poison kiya gaya hai. [(((audio)))]
NAV & HIR: Someone says that someone has given poison.
005: Kaviraja: Kisko? [(((audio)))]
NAV & HIR: To whom?
006: Srila Prabhupada: Mujhko. [(((audio)))]
NAV & HIR: To me.
007: Kaviraja: Kaun bolta hai? [(((audio)))]
NAV: Who said?
HIR: Who is saying this?
008: Srila Prabhupada: Ye sab friends. [(((audio)))]
NAV: These all friends.
HIR: All these friends.
009: Bhakticharu: Ke boleche, Srila Prabhupada? [(((audio)))]
NAV: Who said, Srila Prabhupada?
HIR: Who said this, Srila Prabhupada?
010: Srila Prabhupada: Ke boleche. [(((audio)))]
NAV: They all say.
HIR: Everybody’s saying it.
AUTHOR’S COMMENT: Did Srila Prabhupada overhear “all these friends” (his disciples) whispering in his room about how they gave him poison? Why does Srila Prabhupada state this in Hindi and Bengali, and only later in English? END COMMENT
011: Tamal Krishna: Krishna das? [(((audio)))]
012: Kaviraja: Ao ko kaun poison dega? Kis liye dega? [(((audio)))]
HIR: Who would give you poison? Why would anyone do that?
013: Tamal Krishna: Who said that, Srila Prabhupada? [(((audio)))]
014: Srila Prabhupada: I do not know, but it is said. [(((audio)))]
AUTHOR’S COMMENT: It is puzzling why Srila Prabhupada says He has been poisoned, but twice becomes evasive when asked directly by Tamal Krishna. Could it be that Srila Prabhupada did not want to discuss it with Tamal but wanted to bring it up with the kaviraja? END COMMENT
[NOTE: Did Srila Prabhupada overhear “all these friends” (his disciples) whispering in his room about how they gave him poison? Why does Srila Prabhupada state this in Hindi and Bengali, and only later in English?
“They all say” makes perfect sense, because they were all whispering in the background about poison. And they were talking about how they were going to poison him. Who else are the “they”? Is Srila Prabhupada hearing things? No, he knows what they are whispering about, these “all friends.”
If Srila Prabhupada said, “aye-ee”, and there was a eye motion or hand motion along with it, then “aye-ee” would mean “These people / that man / so and so (to whom I am pointing)” “boleche – said” ]
Summary of following Hindi conversation: Srila Prabhupada asks Balaram Mishra if he knows astrology. He denies it and the kaviraja confirms that Balaram Mishra is a Pandit, not a jyotishi, whose area of expertise lies in the performance of rituals. Bhakticharu then elicits a response from the kaviraja establishing his credentials as a jyotishi. All this takes place at the top of page 354 in the Conversations Book #36.
(SKIP)
101: Kaviraja (to Srila Prabhupada):Apko kisne bataya hai ki kushthi ke andar apko markiz hai. koi jyotish ne bataya tha? [(((audio)))]
NAV: Who has told you that your end is near? Some astrologer has said that?
HIR: Did someone tell you that according to your astrological chart your death is near? Did some astrologer tell you that?
102: Srila Prabhupada: Balaram Das. [(((audio)))]
AUTHOR’S COMMENT: Who Balaram das is, is not understood. It does not seem to be Balaram Mishra, but another Balaram. END COMMENT
103: Bhakticharu (to Srila Prabhupada, Bengali): Apnar ayu sesh hoy giyeche, apni bolchen, seta kono jyotishi bolechen? [(((audio)))]
NAV: You were saying that your end is near… Who has told you that, some astrologer?
HIR: You were saying that your life has come to an end. Did some astrologer say that [to you]?”
[No answer from Prabhupada]
104: Bhakticharu (to Kaviraja): Koshthi ka vicar nahin. vaisha tha. [(((audio)))]
NAV: It is said in his chart.
HIR: This is not according to his chart. It was like that.
105: Bhakticharu (to Prabhupada): Kintu sastriji bolchen seta thik noy. [(((audio)))]
NAV & HIR: But Sastriji is saying that is not correct.
106: Bhakticharu (to Kaviraja): Ap to bolte hain aur das sal… [(((audio)))]
NAV: You are saying that he’s going to live ten more years.
HIR: You say that another ten years…”
107: Kaviraja: Abhi kya ho to. [(((audio)))]
NAV: Now what, this…
HIR: Whatever else takes place now.
108: Bhakticharu (to Srila Prabhupada): Sastriji bolchen je apni aro das vatsar amader sange thakben, Srila Prabhupada. [(((audio)))]
NAV & HIR: Sastriji says that you will be with us for another ten years, Srila Prabhupada.
109: Kaviraja: Vicar to chor dijiye ap bilkul yah ki kushthi men ayu sesh nahin. Sesh ho gaya hai. [(((audio)))]
NAV: Completely dispel this thought that your end is near.
HIR: Please give up this idea completely that, according to your horoscope, there is nothing left of your life, that your end has come.
AUTHOR’S COMMENT: The assumption appears to have been made by Bhakticharu and the kaviraja that when Srila Prabhupada says, “Someone told me”, that he is referring to some astrologer. Note that on October 14, a lengthy astrological chart was read to Srila Prabhupada by Pradyumna Prabhu, stating that Srila Prabhupada’s life was to end after 81 years. END
(SKIP to bottom of page 354)
201: Srila Prabhupada: Uncut, yes.
202: Tamal Krishna: OK.
203: Indian man: (Hindi: unknown translation)
204: Kaviraja: Yah, maharaj ji, kotha ap kaise bola aj ki apko koi bola hai ki apko poison diya hai. Ap ko kuch abhas hua hai, kya? [(((audio)))]
NAV: Maharaj, how did you say this, that someone has said that someone has poisoned you? Have you felt something?
HIR: So, Maharaj, what is this that you said about someone telling you that you had been poisoned? Did you feel something?
205: Srila Prabhupada: Nahin, aise koi bola je… debe-sa hi ja hota hai. Shayad koi kitab men likha hai. [(((audio)))]
NAV: No, not said, but when one is given poison, it happens like this. It’s written in book.
HIR: No, some people say like this, that… it is like that when it is given. Perhaps it is written in some […] book.
AUTHOR’S COMMENT: This reference to the symptoms of poisoning justifies the exercise in previous chapters of examining Srila Prabhupada’s physical symptoms to determine a correct diagnosis. END COMMENT
206: Kaviraja: Kai karanon se ho jata hai, kacce mercury se ho jata hai, ya aur koi bhi ciz aisha hai vaisha ho jata, lekin apke liye kaun karega ham to yahi samajhta hai. Aise devpurush ke liye koi manasi vicar karega, vo bhi rakshas hai. [(((audio)))]
NAV: If you take raw mercury, it can happen, or several other raw things. But who would do such a thing to you? For a saintly person like you, even if someone thinks such a thing, then he is a demon.
HIR: It could be for a number of reasons, because of raw mercury, and there are other things which can have a similar effect. But who would do such a thing to you, I cannot understand. Anyone who could even consider doing such a thing to a divine personality like yourself is a rakshasa.
(SKIP)
Page 359, still the 9th.
301: Tamal Krishna: Srila Prabhupada? You said before that you… that it is said that you were poisoned? [(((audio)))]
302: Srila Prabhupada: No. These kind of symptoms are seen when a man is poisoned. He said like that, not that I am poisoned. [(((audio)))]
303: Tamal Krishna: Did anyone tell you that, or you just know it from before? [(((audio)))]
304: Srila Prabhupada: I read something. [(((audio)))]
305: Tamal Krishna: Ah, I see. That’s why actually we cannot allow anyone to cook for you. [(((audio)))]
306: Srila Prabhupada: That’s good. [(((audio)))]
307: Tamal Krishna: Jayapataka Maharaj was telling that one acharya, Sankaracharya, of the Sankarachary line – this is a while ago – he was poisoned to death. Since that time, none of the acharyas or the gurus of the Sankaracharya line will ever take any food cooked except by their own men. [(((audio)))]
308: Srila Prabhupada: My Guru Maharaj also. [(((audio)))]
309: Tamal Krishna: Oh. You, of course, have been so merciful that sometimes you would take prasada cooked by so many different people. [(((audio)))]
310: Srila Prabhupada: That should be stopped. (pause) [(((audio)))]
311: Tamal Krishna: Are you feeling any pain, Srila Prabhupada? …Should we again continue some kirtan…? (Hansadutta leads kirtan)
Page 366. Tape 19, Side B. Afternoon or evening, November 10, 1977.
Summary: There is discussion about Srila Prabhupada’s condition. The pulse was strong, blood pressure normal, liver was working, and the kaviraja says that from the pathological point of view, there is nothing wrong. (“General condition good.”) This is now the 10th, not the 9th.
Page 367. November 10, 1977.
401: Tamal Krishna: But what did Prabhupada just say? [(((audio)))]
402: Bhakticharu: Prabhupada just said that I mean, this morning his condition was bad, not now. [(((audio)))]
403: Bhavananda: Prabhupada was complaining of mental distress this morning also. [(((audio)))]
404: Bhakticharu: Srila Prabhupada?
405: Srila Prabhupada: Hm?
406: Bhakticharu: Ota ki byapar hoyechilo, mental distress? [(((audio)))]
NAV & HIR: What was that all about, mental distress?
407: (Some noise)
408: Srila Prabhupada: Hm hm.
409: Kaviraja: Boliye, boliye. [(((audio)))]
NAV: Say it. Say it.
HIR: Go ahead, say it. (COMMENT: Does Srila Prabhupada not want to talk about it?. It seems that He needs to be pushed.)
410: Srila Prabhupada: Vahi bat… je koi hamko poison kiya. [(((audio)))]
NAV: That same thing I said, that someone has poisoned me.
411: Bhakticharu: Accha. [not surprised; unclear (Hindi to Kaviraja?)] … unhi socna…
HIR: He’s thinking…
412: Bhavananda: [to Bhakticharu] Hmm?
413: Kaviraja: dekhiye, bat hi hai, ki koi rakshas ne diya ho.
HIR: Look, this is the thing, that maybe some rakshasa gave him poison…
414: Bhakticharu [to Bhavananda and others]: He’s saying that someone gave him poison.
415: Kaviraja: Caru Swami, Kisi rakshas ne diya ho, to ho sakta hai. Impossible nahin hai. Vah Sankaracarya je, kisine unko poison diya, che mahinon ke bad, tabhi to taklif paye. Kanc hai na, botal ka kanc, vah pis ke khane men khila diya to. To, usko kya natija hua, barah maine ke bad, uske leprosy hua sab sarir ke andar. To karam to apna ko bhogta hai. Jo medicine ham de rakha hai, yadi koi uska effect hoga poison to reh nahin sakta hai, guaranteed bolta hai. Jo bhi affected hoga, to reh nahin sakta hai. Kintu abhi to ham pakar nahin sakta usko jo diya hua hai. Vahki pakarta hai jiska abhi kidney kharab ho gaya, kisi karan se, bimari se ho jay, kisi greh se ho jay ya poison se.
NAV: It is possible some demon has given it. It is not impossible. Just like Sankaracharya was poisoned over six months with powdered glass, etc. But the poisoner after twelve months got leprosy… one has to suffer one’s karma. But whatever medicine I’ve given will counteract either the effect of bad planets or poison on the body. Now we cannot catch who may have poisoned. And if his kidneys are bad from disease, curse or poison, my medicine will counteract.
HIR: Caru Swami, some rakshasa might have given it, maybe so. It’s not impossible. Someone gave poison to Sankaracharya for six months before he started to suffer. [The poisoner] ground glass, you know, bottle glass, and mixed it with his food. So what happened to him [the poisoner] as a result was that after twelve months, his entire body was covered with leprosy. So, you have to suffer the results of your actions. But whatever medicine I have given will, if it has an effect the poison will not be able to stay. That is guaranteed. Whatever it has affected, it will not be able to stay. But we cannot now catch the fellow who gave the poison. No matter what reason his kidneys are bad, whether from disease, planets or poison, my medicine will counteract it.”
416: Tamal Krishna: Prabhupada was thinking that someone had poisoned him. [(((audio)))]
417: Bhakticharu: Yes. [(((audio)))]
418: Tamal Krishna: That was the mental distress. [(((audio)))]
419: Bhakticharu: Yes. [(((audio)))]
420: Kaviraja: Yadi bolta hai, to kuch na kuch sac hi hai, koi sandeh nahin. [(((audio)))]
NAV: If he says that, there must be some truth to it. There’s no doubt.
HIR: If he says that, there must definitely be some truth to it.
421: Tamal Krishna: What did kaviraja just say? [(((audio)))]
422: Bhakticharu: He said that when Srila Prabhupada is saying that, there must be something truth behind it. [(((audio)))]
423: Tamal Krishna: Tssh.
HIR: (COMMENT: Surprise and serious.)
424: Jayapataka: What did the kaviraja say about Sankaracarya?
425: (People all speaking at once)
426: Bhakticharu: Someone gave him some poison powdered glass…
427: Kaviraja [to whom?]: (Somewhat unclear.)
HIR: (He appears to be saying that he will give Srila Prabhupada a certain medicine to be taken with pan, cold water or milk and the results will be seen in the morning.)
Continued on Page 368:
501: Tamal Krishna: Srila Prabhupada, Sastriji says that there must be some truth to it if you say that. So who is it that has poisoned? [(((audio)))]
502: (PAUSE: 13 seconds)
Why did He not answer?
AUTHOR’S COMMENT: Srila Prabhupada never answered Tamal Krishna’s question. Why? From November 10 till 14, a total of four days, not one disciple raised the issue again? Why? Did no one take Srila Prabhupada seriously anymore? END COMMENT
[NOTE: Did Srila Prabhupada overhear “all these friends” (his disciples) whispering in his room about how they gave him poison? Why does Srila Prabhupada state this in Hindi and Bengali, and only later in English?
“They all say” makes perfect sense, because they were all whispering in the background about poison. And they were talking about how they were going to poison him. Who else are the “they”? Is Srila Prabhupada hearing things? No, he knows what they are whispering about, these “all friends.”
If Srila Prabhupada said, “aye-ee”, and there was a eye motion or hand motion along with it, then “aye-ee” would mean “These people / that man / so and so (to whom I am pointing)” “boleche – said” ]
503: Kaviraja: Sabse bara poison je hota hai, vah mercury ka hota hai. [(((audio)))]
NAV: The strongest poison is mercury.
HIR: Mercury is the most poisonous thing that exists..
504: Bhakticharu: [Diya] gaya tha inka oi jo. [?] [(((audio)))]
HIR: which was given to him [Prabhupada]
505: Kaviraja: Nahin nahin. Swarupa Guha ka… ap parha tha, swamiji? Kalkatta men… Swarupa Guha.
NAV & HIR: No, no. Swamiji, did you read about Svarupa Guha? In Calcutta.
506: Bhakticharu: Unko malum nahin. Unko nahin patta. [(((audio)))]
HIR: He known nothing of this. He has never heard.
507: Kaviraja: Us ke pati ne diya tha. Uska koi medicine nahin ata. Itne dose de diya jisko ham raskapoor bolta hai. [(((audio)))]
NAV: The husband poisoned the wife, gave a dose of raskapoor. There is no medicine for it.
HIR: Her husband gave it to her. He gave her a dose of a poison called raskapoor, for which there is no medicine.
508: Bhakticharu: Accha. Mercury is men tha, makaradhvaj men.
NAV: Mercury was in the makharadhvaja.
HIR: Right. Mercury was in this makaradhvaj.
509: ??: Before that.
510: Kaviraja: Uska dusra… Ras kapoor. Amiras.[Beng] tate poison ache.
NAV: No, no. Not that mercury. Another form of mercury.
511: Bhavananda: What did he say?
512: Bhakticharu: He’s saying that it is quite possible that mercury, it’s a kind of poison… [(((audio)))]
513: Tamal Krishna (Both NAV & HIR agree this is not Bhagatji): That makharadhvaja. [(((audio)))]
514: Bhakticharu: No, he’s saying not that.
515: Kaviraja: Seta very poison. [(((audio)))]
NAV: It is very poison.
516: Bhakticharu: Makaradhvaj aisha hota hai, kya? [(((audio)))]
No translation available
517: Bhavananda: What was he taking, Prabhupada?
[Original article: Translation Of SP Poison Conversation]
518: Kaviraja: Makharadhvaja to amrit hota hai. In ke liye bish hota hai, yah bat dusri hai. Baki vah to sab ke liye poson hota hai.
NAV: Makharadhvaja is like nectar, although not suitable for him. But that (raskapoor) is poison for everybody.
HIR: Makharadhvaja is like nectar, but for him it is poison. The other ones are poison for everyone.
519: Bhavananda: What medicine was he taking before that?
520: Bhakticharu: Kon sa (?)
521: Bhavananda: Jagen (?)
522: Bhakticharu: (repeating Bhavananda) (?)
523: Kaviraja:Kuch nahin.
No translation available
524: Bhakticharu: He was referring to a case, a big murder case, in Calcutta. The husband poisoned the wife…
525: Bhavananda: Guha, yes.
526: Kaviraja: Swarupa Guha, ami uska case…
No translation available
527: Bhakticharu: Sankar Das Banerjee.
528: Bhavananda: Oh, yes. Our lawyer is the…
529: Tamal Krishna: Bhagatji doesn’t think…
530: Kaviraja: Yah inka sarir aisha hai jo bajr ki nai hai jo hajar kuto, to kuch nahi hone ko.
HIR: But his [Prabhupada’s?] body is such that it is like a thunderbolt. You can beat it a thousand times, but nothing will happen.
531: Bhakticharu: Bhagavan jisko raksha karta hai, vaise to Prahlad Maharaj ko bhi to…
NAV: When the Lord protects, just like Prahlad Maharaj…
HIR: If God protects someone, then just like Prahlad Maharaj…”
532: Kaviraja: Swamiji, mujhe ek sloka alap hota hai, je:
araksitam tisthati daiva-raksitam suraksitam daiva-hatam vinasyati jivaty anatho ‘pi vane visarjata krtaprayatno ‘pi grhe na jivati Ap to siddhang hain, Maharaj, to isliye koi sanka nahi rakhna.
HIR: Swamiji. I know a Sanskrit verse about this: ‘Without protection, one remains fixed if protected by fate, whereas one who protects himself but is condemned by fate is destroyed. Without a protector, one person can live carelessly alone in the forest, whereas another takes all precautions in his home, and still dies.’ You know this truth, Maharaj, so don’t be afraid.
533: Tamal Krishna: No poison is strong enough to stop the Harinam, Srila Prabhupada.
534: Kaviraja: Bas. [in agreement] Harinam ke samne, to Meera ko kitna poison diya gaya tha. Ek bund par jane se admi ka death ho jay. So bhagavan ke prasad lag jata ta hai, na, to poison bhi amrit ho jata hai.
NAV: Don’t doubt Meera drank so much poison; one drop could have killed, but because it was the Lord’s prasad, nothing happened to her. Even poison when offered to the Lord becomes nectar.
HIR: Right. Before the Holy Name… How much poison was given to Meera, a single drop was enough to kill a man. So if prasad is taken with it, then even poison becomes nectar.
535: Unknown: Prahlad Maharaj.
536: Bhakticharu: Prahlad Maharaj.
537: Kaviraja: Prahlad se jyada poison diya tha halahal iska Meera ko. Itne jabardast banaya lo.
NAV: More than Prahlad, Meera was given such strong poison.
HIR: An even stronger poison was given to Meera than to Prahlad. It was made so strong!
538: Srila Prabhupada: [sighs, breathes]
539: Kaviraja: Jaisha allopathy men ek poison ata jiska taste aj tak koi bata nahin saka.
NAV: Allopathic poison even till today nobody can tell the taste.
HIR: In allopathic medicine there are some poisons that nobody can recognize the taste of.
AUTHOR’S COMMENT: Is the kaviraja speculating that an allopathic poison is involved? Tamal then puts an end to these talks. END COMMENT
540: Tamal Krishna: You want some more kirtan Srila Prabhupada? Lokanath can lead. Lokanath, you lead!
Dr. Brzezinski (Hiranyagarbha das) makes these comments: (He studied tapes 18, 19, 20 thoroughly and the previous 17 not as thoroughly):
It is in the beginning of tape #18 in which Prabhupada says both in Hindi and Bengali that he has been poisoned, and later on in the same conversation, the kaviraja asks him to explain what he meant. This is followed by a discussion of astrology in which the kaviraja and Bhakticharu try to convince Prabhupada that he will live for another ten years. This I believe is significant, as it gives a connection between the “I read it somewhere” and what the kaviraja and Bhakticharu believe is going on in Prabhupada ‘s mind.
There is a short section in which the kaviraja again asks about whether he has had any abhas, or “inkling, hunch, idea, hint, appearance, semblance; impression”; more likely “indication, symptom, evidence” of being poisoned. Prabhupada answers, “no, but that he read somewhere that this is how it happens.” The kaviraja is grappling with the idea of possible poisons; he must be thinking in terms of what poisons could be having the effects of which Prabhupada is complaining.
A third portion comes on the next day, (Folio says 8th, tape says 9th, but is really the 10th) This long piece can be divided into two sections, before and after Tamal’s significant question. First, Prabhupada says that he is feeling alright. The kaviraja also says that Prabhupada ‘s body is functioning properly according to pathological tests (heart, blood pressure, etc.). The physical pain was “us samay hua tha” which is unclear. Is he talking about that morning or another time? This leads into discussion of mental distress, which refers back to the morning, confirming that stomach pain was being experienced in the morning.
Tamal asked his significant question which results in a silent pause of 13 seconds; Prabhupada does not answer. Why? The kaviraja then jumps in with a description of the effects of various poisons and the story of Svarupa Guha. When Bhakticharu suggests that mercury was present in makharadhvaja, something which Tamal also suggests, the kaviraja says that he is not talking about that, but about raskapoor which had been used by Svarupa Guha’s husband. The kaviraja may have had some involvement with that case. Bhakticharu presses about the makharadhvaja and the kaviraja answers that makharadhvaja is amrita (nectar), but that in Prabhupada’s specific case it was poison; but that raskapoor is poisonous for everyone. It is clear that the kaviraja has NOT been giving Prabhupada makharadhvaja and is waiting until the kidneys are stronger before prescribing it.
The conversation then turns again to Sankaracharya not accepting food cooked by others than his own men. Prabhupada makes a noise during the talk about Mirabhai and allopathic poisons, indicating discomfort.
I have gone through the lengthy conversations which precede the Nov. 9-10 period with an eye to important Hindi and Bengali conversations and also to better understand the context of Prabhupada’s comments. The following things have come to my attention.
The word poisoning comes up on Oct. 18, when Bhavananda on two occasions talks about infection as poisoning. This is related to the kidney condition and certain symptoms, such as blood and pus in the urine. On Oct. 25, a kaviraja from Delhi, through Chandra Swami, sends 48 doses of makharadhvaja brought by Satadhanya. Tamal Krishna and Bhakticharu take charge of administering this medicine. On Oct. 26, already, Prabhupada says that this medicine is “not acting,” and “In this condition I do not wish to live,” even though the devotees seem to notice a positive effect.
On Oct. 27, Prabhupada has diarrhea five times. The word poison comes up again. Tamal says: “That medicine turned out to be poison.”. They blame the kaviraja for being a Sakta. In connection with this same medicine, Prabhupada uses the expression janiya suniya bis khainu. This is after only having taken two doses. Tamal suggests that Prabhupada “take rest from the other thing that he has taken,” i.e., stop taking the makharadhvaja. It is revealed that Dr. G. Ghosh, who is 82, a respected allopathic doctor from Allahabad, had said that any medicine which contains mercury and arsenic is poison to him. So the idea of poison has been floated about by the time of November 9th. (A long Hindi conversation follows that should be translated.)
Tamal says that the problems Prabhupada was having were due to makharadhvaja. Bhavananda reports that in Prabhupada’s condition, makharadhvaja would be poison. This is apparently the kaviraja‘s opinion also. Makharadhvaja is too strong a medicine for someone in Prabhupada’s condition and therefore alternative medicines are being given,. such as vrkkasan jivani.
AUTHOR’S COMMENTS:
Some questions naturally arise after hearing these conversations. First, we note that Srila Prabhupada did NOT raise the issue with his disciples, but first Balaram Mishra, whom Srila Prabhupada had probably not seen for many years, and the kaviraja, both outsiders. We must wonder why he didn’t take the issue up with His Western disciples? Was Srila Prabhupada deliberately avoiding His own disciples because they were the ones poisoning Him? (Note: the poison whispers occur on the 11th, not 10th)
Srila Prabhupada first says that someone has said that someone has poisoned Him. He then clarifies by saying “all these friends” were saying this, meaning perhaps His disciples or those in the room. Did Srila Prabhupada overhear the same kinds of poison whisperings that we do on the 11th? Asked by Tamal, Srila Prabhupada denies knowing who has done the poisoning. Then, asked by the kaviraja, Srila Prabhupada says that He has the symptoms of poisoning, as may be described in some book. Asked by Tamal again, Srila Prabhupada denied being poisoned and again notes that He has all the symptoms of one who has been poisoned. It is agreed that no one would cook for Srila Prabhupada except His own disciples, lest there be poisoning as in the case of a Sankaracharya guru. This shows real concern about real poisoning, not just an observation of a coincidence of symptoms. Then, the next day, November 10, Srila Prabhupada tells the kaviraja and Bhakticharu in Hindi again, clearly, that He has been poisoned. A long discussion takes place about various poisons and a Calcutta poison and murder case. Apparently Tamal, Jayapataka, Bhakticharu and Bhavananda had previously discussed several poisoning cases with each other, being very familiar with all the details of these cases. Is it any wonder we suspect them?
At the time, Srila Prabhupada’s shocking statements created nothing more than a temporary buzz of conversation. It is more than slightly puzzling and rather disturbing how Srila Prabhupada’s disciples, particularly the main caretaker and Srila Prabhupada’s secretary Tamal Krishna, did not pursue the matter aside from a few questions. No qualified doctor was consulted in the next five days before Srila Prabhupada’s departure to check on the poisoning matter, nor was any autopsy or test of any kind (hair, urine, blood, etc) performed before or upon after Srila Prabhupada’s departure. Srila Prabhupada flatly stated three times that He was being poisoned, yet no one did a thing to validate that statement, what to speak of protecting Srila Prabhupada. At the end of about fifteen minutes of intense discussion about Srila Prabhupada being poisoned, the conclusion was that Tamal Krishna asked Lokanath to lead another kirtan, since no poison is stronger than the Holy Name. End of discussion, until 1997 and now, in this book.
Questioned by Tamal Krishna Goswami (301), Srila Prabhupada says “He said like that” (meaning the kaviraja ?), “Not that I am poisoned.” By this statement to his disciples he sort of denies he is being poisoned. Yet, Srila Prabhupada discusses this with the kaviraja the very next day, and again speaks to him in Hindi, stating very frankly “someone has poisoned me.” The fact that Srila Prabhupada spoke openly to the kaviraja about being poisoned and not to the devotees again leaves us to wonder. We see that Srila Prabhupada obviously did not care to speak with his disciples on the matter as Tamal Krishna’s last question about his statement is met with a long 13 seconds of silence before the conversation turned elsewhere. Prabhupada obviously could have named his suspects at that time, but he declined, and this mystery can only be answered by a poisoner’s confessions. Yet Srila Prabhupada must have intended to reveal the fact that he thought he was being poisoned because it was He who first brought it up.
Today many who hear these statements are shocked, and also by the apparent lack of alarm by those who were around Prabhupada at that time. Some have suggested the idea that Srila Prabhupada’s references to being poisoned was a result of senility, dying hallucinations, or incoherent ramblings due to the delirium of pain which may have caused him to say anything. Dying hallucinations? The kaviraja clearly didn’t think so. His opinion was that if Srila Prabhupada said it, it must be true. Further, witness the clarity of thought expressed by Prabhupada throughout this time period. Pradyumna das assisted Srila Prabhupada with translation of the Srimad Bhagavatam and he tells of how Srila Prabhupada translated until just days before his leaving. Anyone who reads those final purports can understand that Srila Prabhupada was lucid, and focused. He could understand Sanskrit verses just by listening, and he then spoke the purport into a microphone held by Pradyumna. Yet Tamal and Bhavananda tried to explain away Srila Prabhupada’s statements as due to “mental distress,” pooh-poohing the seriousness and importance of them.
Srila Prabhupada’s statements were ignored and brushed aside, and then covered in the dust kicked up by the mad rush of disciples to divide the world and take Srila Prabhupada’s place as absolute gurus. But now, by Krishna’s design, this information has re-emerged from 22 years of obscurity, almost lost. Those concerned about a capital crime being committed, including those who have devotion to Srila Prabhupada, His contribution and His movement, would serve their conscience well by participating in the search for the truth about Srila Prabhupada’s poisoning. END COMMENT
We conclude with an excerpt from ISKCON’s answer to the Poison CD that never was, May 1998: “These translations and transcripts do in any case reveal a confusing scenario. Srila Prabhupada indicates first to Tamal that he had the symptoms of someone poisoned, not that he was being poisoned. Later he states more positively that he thinks he is being poisoned. …we may never know exactly what was in Srila Prabhupada’s mind, or how seriously he took the suggestion that someone was poisoning him…” (see Appendix 21)
————-
Will be continued on Part 9
Srila Prabhupada left this mortal world on November 14, 1977.
But He lives forever in His instructions, and His followers will always live with Him.
“He reasons ill who tells that Vaishnavas die
While thou art living still in sound!
The Vaishnavas die to live, and living try
To spread the Holy Name around”
(Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Thākura)
HARE KṚṢṆA HARE KṚṢṆA KṚṢṆA KṚṢṆA HARE HARE
HARE RĀMA HARE RĀMA RĀMA RĀMA HARE HARE
Kaviraja: speaks in Hindi…..
Tamala Krsna: Put poison in different containers. That’s all right.
Audio Clip in MP3 Format – [(((audio)))]
This is not a whisper – these words are clearly audible, spoken by Tamal Krsna. It is interesting to note that even though the transcription of this section of the audio tape was transcribed into the BBT Folio, this sentence was omitted. Why was this sentence omitted? How will BBT / Bhaktivedanta Archives officials explain this mystery?
Note:
1) By giving Srila Prabhupada poison they lost the mode of Goodness(Sattva guna) which promotes one to the higher planets:
“HIS RELIGIOUS PRINCIPLES, AND HIS PROMOTION TO HIGHER PLANETS IS ALSO CHECKED”
2) One can see that these Poison givers have NO RELIGIOUS principles, they are LOW class bunch of THUGS who cling on to POWER wanting to be WORSHIPED by others(so called “diksa” gurus) by SLAVERY and MONEY SCREWING. They are the BUTCHERS of ISKCON:
THE ACT IS SO OFFENSIVE THAT THE ACTOR ALSO GRADUALLY LOSES HIS BEAUTY, HIS FAME AND HIS RELIGIOUS PRINCIPLES,
3) The changing/distorting of Srila Prabhupada books means they DESTROY all that Srila Prabhupada created his Temples, Usurp the BBT, drive out sincere devotees who accept the Ritvik System, Direction of Management (1970):
DRIVEN BY VARIOUS KINDS OF MENTAL CONCOCTIONS, THE DEMONS DIMINISH ALL KINDS OF WELFARE.
4) These poison givers and their supporters are going to hell:
SB 6.7.14 Indra Offends His Spiritual Master, Brhaspati.
A stone boat would be unable to float and would sink in the water with its passengers. SIMILARLY, THOSE WHO MISLEAD PEOPLE GO TO HELL, AND THEIR FOLLOWERS GO WITH THEM.
THUS A GODLESS CIVILIZATION BECOMES THE SOURCE OF ALL CALAMITIES.
Thus being advised by the demonic ministers, Kaṁsa, who was from the very beginning the greatest rascal, decided to persecute the brāhmaṇas and Vaiṣṇavas, being entrapped by the shackles of all-devouring, eternal time. He ordered the demons to harass all kinds of saintly persons, and then he entered his house. The adherents of Kaṁsa were all influenced by the modes of passion as well as illusioned by the modes of ignorance, and their only business was to create enmity with saintly persons. Such activities can only reduce the duration of life. The demons accelerated the process and invited their deaths as soon as possible. THE RESULT OF PERSECUTING SAINTLY PERSONS IS NOT ONLY UNTIMELY DEATH. THE ACT IS SO OFFENSIVE THAT THE ACTOR ALSO GRADUALLY LOSES HIS BEAUTY, HIS FAME AND HIS RELIGIOUS PRINCIPLES, AND HIS PROMOTION TO HIGHER PLANETS IS ALSO CHECKED. DRIVEN BY VARIOUS KINDS OF MENTAL CONCOCTIONS, THE DEMONS DIMINISH ALL KINDS OF WELFARE. AN OFFENSE AT THE LOTUS FEET OF THE DEVOTEES AND BRĀHMAṆAS IS A GREATER OFFENSE THAN THAT COMMITTED AT THE LOTUS FEET OF THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD. THUS A GODLESS CIVILIZATION BECOMES THE SOURCE OF ALL CALAMITIES.
Thus ends the Bhaktivedanta purport of the Fourth Chapter of Kṛṣṇa, “Kaṁsa Begins His Persecutions.”
Uczniowie Prabhupada stali się mordercami.
Jak to było możliwe?
Jaki proces oni praktykowali?
Od kiedy knuli spisek w celu zabicia Prabhupada?
Students Prabhupada became murderers.
How was this possible?
What process they practiced?
Since when plotting a conspiracy to kill Prabhupada?
Bhakta Waldemar says:
Students Prabhupada became murderers.
How was this possible?
What process they practiced?
Since when plotting a conspiracy to kill Prabhupada?
Mahesh: Please read the following answer to your questions:
POISON ISSUE
Prabhupada: SO THEY MAY KILL ME ALSO.
Note: Srila Prabhupada was aware of the plot to kill him in 1976.
So the question is WHO is “they”?
760503rc.hon Conversations
Prabhupada: This is our position. Gradually they will show Hare Krsna
movement. In India also, although India’s… They will want to crush down
this movement. So this will be up to Him. Krsna or Krsna’s movement, the
same thing. And Krsna was attempted to be killed by Kamsa class of men and
his company, the demons. So it will be there; it is already there. Don’t be
disappointed, because that is the meaning that it is successful. Krsna’s
favor is there, because Krsna and Krsna’s movement is not different,
nondiff…, identical. So as Krsna was attempted to be killed, many, many
years before He appeared… At eighth child, if the mother produces child
yearly, still ten years, eight years before His birth, the mother was to be
attempted to be killed. So there may be attempt like that. And Lord Jesus
Christ was killed. SO THEY MAY KILL ME ALSO.
Note: Trouble from Subordinates Juniors(disciples “they”)
770811rc.vrn Conversations
Abhirama: So I went to see the astrologer with Yasodanandana Swami, and he
did more calculations on your chart.
Prabhupada: You can get on light.
Abhirama: So basically he explained when the difficult times will come,
according to the planets. Then he made it very clear that beyond the
planetary influence, it would be very difficult for calculations for a
person in your position. For an ordinary man he can say very clearly. And he
can say for you which planets will disturb, but he cannot say for sure how
much they will affect, because being a saintly person, there is naturally
some resistance to these influences. So he made that very clear, that you
should not think that these are final. So he said, according to your birth,
the longevity shows very clearly. And then he gave a date. The longevity is
eighty-one years, five months and twenty-nine days, which means February 28,
1978, six months from now. This is according to birth and stars arrangement.
But on this point he made it very clear that this was from your birth, this
was set, but it can change. Due to pious activities, due to the hand of
Krsna, this can change. So… And then he described that during the next six
months, the first week of September, Saturn will pass over Ketu, and it will
agitate the influence of Ketu even more. So the first week of September the
resistance will go down, will become weaker. THEN HE MENTIONED THAT THERE MAY BE SOME TROUBLE FROM…, MAYBE FINANCIAL OR MAYBE FROM JUNIORS, FROM SUBORDINATES
Note: Srila Prabhupada KNEW he was going to be killed by “they” (disciples)
Otherwise why does he say BETTER KILL ME HERE.
771022rc.vrn Conversations
Bhavananda: Therefore we asked you yesterday for your guidance.
Prabhupada: No, I’ll guide. Don’t move me to the hospital. BETTER KILL ME
HERE.
Note: It is a particularly astounding statement to be made at the time
when Srila Prabhupada KNEW he was going to pass away soon. Marica was under
the order of Ravana to kill Rama (which he knew he was not capable of).
Ravana would kill Marica; If he failed to accomplish Ravana’s order. So
either way Marica knew he was going to be killed. (By being killed by Rama
Marica would be fortunate as it opened the door of liberation).
Srila Prabhupada similarly KNEW he would be killed.
Srila Prabhupada had the following choices: 1) to have him killed in hospital (which “they”would have done –also!)
2) to be killed by his own disciples at Krishna Balarama Temple (who were poisoning him) while hearing
Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare /Hare Rama Hare Rama
Rama Rama Hare Hare. These were the TWO options. The option to ENGAGE his
disciples in devotional service chanting the Hare Krishna maha-mantra even to the last
end was what he chose in spite of (“they”) their evil intent to kill him.
Note : Srila Prabhupada is talking of BEING KILLED by EITHER PARTY. Let us note that Parikarma with buffalos was danger in his state of health BUT the OTHER issue was THE POISONERS who will NOT let him go they were determined to KILL him THERE if he stayed INSIDE.
771110rc.vrn Conversations
Prabhupada: THE RAVANA WILL KILL AND RAMA WILL KILL. BETTER TO BE KILLED BY
RAMA. EH? That Marica–if he does not go to mislead Sita, he’ll be killed by
Ravana; and if he goes to be killed by Rama, then it is better.
Tamala Krsna: WHO is this Prabhupada’s talking about?
Note: HOY TO TAI. (Its possible), “YE SAB FRIENDS” (THESE ALL FRIENDS),
“they” these are VERY SELECTIVE WORDS of a CAREFUL SPEECH. They are POINTING WORDS.
Conversation Mixture of English, Hindi and Bengali (9/11/77)
Srila Prabhupada: Keu bole je keu poison kore diyeche. HOY TO TAI.
Translation: Someone says that I’ve been poisoned. IT’S POSSIBLE.
Balaram Mishra (?): Hmm?
Kaviraja: Kya farma rahe hain?
Translation: What is he saying?
Srila Prabhupada: Koi bolta hai je koi mujhko poison kiya gaya hai.
Translation: Someone says that someone has given poison.
Kaviraja: Kisko?
Translation: To whom?
Srila Prabhupada: Mujhko.
Translation: To me.
Kaviraja: Kaun bolta hai?
Translation: Who said?
Srila Prabhupada: YE SAB FRIENDS.
Translation: THESE ALL FRIENDS.
Bhakticharu: Ke boleche, Srila Prabhupada?
Translation: Who said, Srila Prabhupada?
Srila Prabhupada: Ke boleche.
Translation: They all say.
Tamal Krishna: Krishna das?
Kaviraja: Ao ko kaun poison dega? Kis liye dega?
Translation: Who would give you poison? Why would anyone do that?
Tamal Krishna: Who said that, Srila Prabhupada?
Srila Prabhupada: I do not know, but it is said.
Note: Srila Prabhupada’s consciousness was not like a conditioned soul sleep
in ignorance. From this it is evident HE DID HEAR THE WHISPERS OF “they” WHO WERE POISONING HIM. Srila Prabhupada was FULLY CONSCIOUS of ALL that was going on. He could hear EVERYTHING.
Srila Prabhupada: I do not know, BUT IT IS SAID.
**IF** Srila Prabhupada was in a deep slumber of a conditioned soul-he would
have NOT heard. BUT he DID HEAR-therefore “BUT IT IS SAID”. Who ” they” are he does not wish to disclose DIRECTLY.
There is also a DEFINITE link between the 9th July letter to society on the
order of RITVIK system. Srila Prabhupada’s clear instructions are that he
Srila Prabhupada is the Initiating Guru of ISKCON. This ORDER was NEVER
REVOKED by Srila Prabhupada. THIS signalled warrant for his kill! Srila
Prabhupada did not compromise: HE WAS** THE** GURU OF ISKCON. This was
unacceptable to “they” (Srila Prabhupada murderers).
The motives of these disciples (“they”, Srila Prabhupada murderers) were to
somehow or other GET RID OF this July 9th 1977 directive-in order to
implement their devious plan.
Now “they” who poisoned Srila Prabhupada knew and feared all devotees would
find out. So in the beginning it was HIDDEN from the majority of devotees.
Why? And eventually it was the banned “ritvik” devotees who distributed
thousands of this 9th July 1977 directive ALL OVER THE WORLD. “They” had to
respond-no choice. Devotees ALL OVER THE WORLD FOUND OUT.
Hear this feeble excuse? “Tamal Krsna typed it out -Srila Prabhupada just
signed it. ”
So—-Srila Prabhupada had signed MANY transactions, letters to devotees,
the Incorporation of ISKCON in USA etc. **IF** July 9th 1977 letter is
rejected as having been Tamal Krsna’s “personal choice” -then ISKCON
Incorporation, letters to devotees EVERYTHING typed by devotees and signed
by Srila Prabhupada would be discarded on the same merit. See how CRAZY it
looks!!. Srila Prabhupada KNEW EXACTLY what he signed.
Tamal Krsna’s position was as a SECRETARY and Srila Prabhupada was THE BOSS. Secretary can type, design letter according to THE WISHES of THE BOSS.
Secretary’s position is SUBSERVIENT to the BOSS— not independent.
Why “they” had THE MOTIVE FOR MURDER OF SRILA PRABHUPADA.:
1) Discarding the RITVIK system means “they” have free
servants/slaves(disciples).
2) Discarding the RITVIK system means “they” have the satisfaction of
worship of themselves replacing Srila Prabhupada as the Initiator.
3) Discarding the RITVIK system means “they” have the daksina MONEY for
their own lusty desires.
Free income from servant/slave(disciple).
4) Discarding the RITVIK system means “they” OWN properties, usurp temples.
5) Discarding the RITVIK system means “they” manipulate devotees.
6) Discarding the RITVIK system means “they” prevent Srila Prabhupada’s
ORIGINAL BOOKS from printing/ distributing in LARGE quantities.
7) Discarding the Ritvik system means “they” and KEY men Temple Presidents
etc loot exploit the ISKCON society funds
Note:”They” Srila Prabhupada murderers destination:
Isopanisad 12
The Lord states that as soon as one reaches Him by devotional
service–which is the one and only way to approach the Personality of
Godhead–one attains complete freedom from the bondage of birth and death.
In other words, the path of salvation from the material clutches fully
depends on the principles of knowledge and detachment gained from serving
the Lord. THE PSEUDO RELIGIONISTS HAVE NEITHER KNOWLEDGE NOR DETACHMENT FROM MATERIAL AFFAIRS, FOR MOST OF THEM WANT TO LIVE IN THE GOLDEN SHACKLES OF MATERIAL BONDAGE UNDER THE SHADOW OF PHILANTHROPIC ACTIVITIES DISGUISED AS
RELIGIOUS PRINCIPLES. BY A FALSE DISPLAY OF RELIGIOUS SENTIMENTS, THEY PRESENT A SHOW OF DEVOTIONAL SERVICE WHILE INDULGING IN ALL SORTS OF IMMORAL ACTIVITIES. IN THIS WAY THEY PASS AS SPIRITUAL MASTERS AND DEVOTEES OF GOD.
SUCH VIOLATORS OF RELIGIOUS PRINCIPLES HAVE NO RESPECT FOR THE AUTHORITATIVE ACARYAS, THE HOLY TEACHERS IN THE STRICT DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION. **THEY** IGNORE THE VEDIC INJUNCTION ACARYOPASANA–“ONE MUST WORSHIP THE ACARYA”—and Krsna’s statement in the Bhagavad-gita (4.2) evam parampara-praptam, “This supreme science of God is received through the disciplic succession.”
Instead, to mislead the people in general they themselves become so-called
acaryas, but they do not even follow the principles of the acaryas.
These rogues are the MOST DANGEROUS ELEMENTS IN HUMAN SOCIETY. Because there is no religious government, they escape punishment by the law of the
state. They cannot, however, escape the law of the Supreme, who has clearly
declared in the Bhagavad-gita that envious demons in the garb of religious
propagandists shall be thrown into the darkest regions of hell (Bg.
16.19-20). SRI ISOPANISAD CONFIRMS THAT THESE PSEUDO RELIGIONISTS ARE HEADING TOWARD THE MOST OBNOXIOUS PLACE IN THE UNIVERSE AFTER THE COMPLETION OF THEIR SPIRITUAL MASTER BUSINESS, WHICH THEY CONDUCT SIMPLY FOR SENSE GRATIFICATION.
Question: Just HOW MUCH poison was given IN THE NAME of MEDICINE or MIXED WITH medicine?
771028r2.vrn Conversations
Bhakti-caru: Pressure is good. When Dr. Ghosh came, that other Dr. Ghosh
came… (Hindi) …pressure, 180 and 80. (Hindi) He’s saying that in this
condition, Prabhupada can’t take makara-dhvaja. THAT ANY MEDICINE THAT
CONTAINS MERCURY AND ARSENIC IS POISON TO HIM.
Bhavananda: That’s what Prabhupada said.
Tamala Krsna: That is a fact. HE FOUND THAT TO BE TRUE
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Note: sceptics may disagree but Srila Prabhupada gives here HIS verdict from HIS OWN MOUTH.
WHY does Srila Prabhupada say YES?
Srila Prabhupada : YES
771031r3.vrn Conversations
Tamala Krsna: We certainly have… We might as well try. We’ve tried
everyone else.
Prabhupada: Hm.
Tamala Krsna: So let us try.
Bhavananda: He did agree with YOUR OWN DIAGNOSIS, PRABHUPADA. HE SAID
MAKARADHVAJA AT THIS POINT WOULD BE POISON AND TODAY YOU SAID THAT IT WAS POISON.
Prabhupada: YES.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
771031r3.vrn Conversations
Prabhupada: …taking poison. The body is already finished.
Upendra: What is that?
Tamala Krsna: HE SAID, “IF YOU THINK I’M TAKING POISON, that the body is
already finished.”
Prabhupada: So dead body, you take poison or ambrosia, it is the same. Blind
man, night or day–the same thing. Rather, if you depend on miracle, pray to
Krsna that “He may survive.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Tamal Krsna KNEW that ARSENIC was POISON. HOW MUCH QUANTITY did he ADD to the medicine?
“681129BG.LA Lectures
Prabhupada: Now, “pervades the body,” that is consciousness. The soul is
very small, but… Just like you take one grain of, what is called, poison?
Snake poison? Arsenic? Poison called? What is called? Yes, venom poison.
Tamala Krsna: ARSENIC IS POISON.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
WHY is it RELEVANT to bring in the “KILL” by either side? Especially at THIS TIME when Prabhupada KNEW he was going to pass away.
771110rc.vrn Conversations
Prabhupada: THE RAVANA WILL KILL AND RAMA WILL KILL. BETTER TO BE KILLED BY
RAMA. EH? That Marica–if he does not go to mislead Sita, he’ll be killed by
Ravana; and if he goes to be killed by Rama, then it is better.
Tamala Krsna: Who is this Prabhupada’s talking about?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Note: Srila Prabhupada sends Tamal OUT of the room THIS is when POISON was
mentioned in HINDI
771108rc.vrn Conversations
Prabhupada: No. (break) (Hindi) Tamala Krsna?
Tamala Krsna: Yes, Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Give facility for him, ten rupees.
Tamala Krsna: This gentleman?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: Ten rupees.
Prabhupada: And some fruits.
Tamala Krsna: Uncut.
Prabhupada: Uncut, yes.
Tamala Krsna: Okay.
Indian man: (Hindi)
Kaviraja: (Hindi)
Prabhupada: (Hindi)
Tamala Krsna: I’ll give him the fruits now, Srila Prabhupada? I have some
fruits. I can give him now?
Prabhupada: Hm. (Hindi)
Tamala Krsna: WHAT DID PRABHUPADA SAY?
Note: TKG wanted to KNOW if Srila Prabhupada had told them ABOUT HIS POISONING – because PERHAPS ***THIS** was the ONLY chance Srila Prabhupada had to inform OUTSIDE WORLD what was ACTUALLY taking place.
AND he was speaking in HINDI so this “FRIENDS” will not hear it.
Note: Srila Prabhupada says don’t torture me
and put to death. WHY say this UNLESS IT IS HAPPENING!!!
771103rc.vrn Conversations
Prabhupada: That is my only request, that at the last stage don’t torture me
and put to death. So I am not eating anything, and if we chant, by batches
chant, I’ll hear. (Bengali)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
771108rc.vrn Conversations
Prabhupada: (Hindi–mentions word “poison”)
Kaviraja: (Hindi)
Devotee: SOMEONE GAVE HIM POISON HERE.
Kaviraja: (Hindi long explanation)
Tamala Krsna: PRABHUPADA WAS THINKING THAT SOMEONE HAD POISONED HIM.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
771018r2.vrn Conversations
Tamala Krsna: I mean we have to go on some basis, Srila Prabhupada. And from
the… What we can see, we can see. Whatever you ate turned into stool. Now,
that is a good sign. That’s a good sign. If it didn’t come out of its own
accord, that’s due to less strength. And by drinking a lot yesterday, this
morning the urine becomes clear, and by taking those medicines. These are
actual, factual things we can observe. One thing is, you don’t feel able to
sleep. That’s a bad thing. And the other thing is your being so weak
condition that your willpower is weakened. Your determination is weakened.
So so far as those two problems go, for sleeping I know that something can
be given to help you to sleep. So far willpower, if you allow us to take
care of you, then I think that should be the willpower. OF COURSE, I MEAN
WE’RE NOT GOING TO LET THEM DO ANYTHING BAD. I MEAN I’M NOT GOING TO LET ANYBODY TAKE YOU TO THE HOSPITAL. I WOULDN’T HAVE DONE IT IN LONDON , EXCEPT THAT YOU YOURSELF SAID WE SHOULD DO IT. Otherwise your instructions told to
everybody, “Don’t let them take me to a hospital.” So we’re not thinking
like that. Neither I’m going to let anybody put any, take any blood specimen
or any of those things. It’s not required. These things which they’re giving
you are not… The only harmful effect is that you cannot sleep. But that
can be given. To help you sleep can be helped. Otherwise this kaviraja’s
medicine, it may be less agitating to take, but does it actually work? Now
for nearly half a day you have drank only one time a little bit. But you
want us to take care of you and help you, then I think you should accept
these… I mean they’re very reasonable arguments.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Note: Hospital means Poison SYMPTOMS would SHOW.
771103rc.vrn Conversations
Tamala Krsna: I said supposing someone threatens us with our life, that “We
will kill you if you don’t let us take your Guru Maharaja to the hospital,”
still, we will not let them take you. Your order is our business to follow,
even at the risk of our life. SO WE ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE YOU TO THE
HOSPITAL UNDER ANY CONDITION. Neither… Not only is it your order, but we
also see absolutely no benefit from these hospitals. Your order is
sufficient, but apart from that, also, from our own limited intelligence, we
also see that the hospitals are condemned. These doctors are blind, these
allopathic doctors.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The ACARYA of the GREAT institution does NOT make frivolous comments like a mundaner. His instructions are GUIDANCE for humanity.
771022rc.vrn Conversations
Bhavananda: Therefore we asked you yesterday for your guidance.
Prabhupada: No, I’ll guide. Don’t move me to the hospital. BETTER KILL ME
HERE.
If one is AT ALL SERIOUS in knowing the TRUTH then the least they have to go thru all this PLUS the CDs whispers. Tamal Krishna Goswami’s voice is CLEAR “poison is going down”
EVEN the most uneducated person who is SINCERE will accept WHERE is the POISON going down – they have made Srila Prabhupada DRINK IT and it is GOING
DOWN HIS THROAT. There were few voices captured. 1) Tamal Krishna Goswami 2) Bhavananda who was there when he RESPONDED: HUH. There was one voice INDIAN who mentioned poison in the background. 3) There was a voice that said Jaya it could be Jayapataka or Jayadwaita or BOTH. 4) there was a apparently Indian voice that said “Pyabhaichary poison is put in the Milk.”
Letters 70-01-30
Letter to: Jayadvaita Los Angeles
30 January, 1970
Boston
My Dear Jayadvaita,
Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge recept of your letter dated 28 January, 1970.
I am very glad to learn that Nectar of Devotion is now completed. You have inquired about the quality number 63 of Krishna that He is surrounded by loving devotees can be explained as follows: When we speak of Krishna, Krishna is not alone. Krishna means His name, His qualities, His fame, His friends, His paraphernalia, His entourage–everything included. Just like when we speak of a king, it is to be understood that he is surrounded by ministers, secretaries, military commanders and many other people. Krishna is not impersonal, so in His Vrindaban Lila especially, He is always surrounded by the Gopis, cowherd boys, His father, His mother and all the inhabitants of Vrindaban.
Regarding your second question, Pyabhaichary, you have got 31 only out of 33. I think some of the brackets are not counted. So if the parentheses are removed from “intoxication” and “impotency” and they are also counted, the total of symptoms will come to 33. Simply add commas after the preceeding symptoms namely “prestige” and “impudence” respectively.
Regarding the third point: all kinds of mellow includes servitude. Therefore a mixture of servitude and parenthood is not incompatible. So Ugrasena’s mellow is correctly written as mixed with servitude and parental affection and the statement in part IV should be corrected to state that a mixture of parenthood and servitude is a compatible one.
I hope this will meet you in good health.
Your ever well-wisher,
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami
ACBS:db
A point to note : Jayapataka was always in the company of Tamala Krishna Goswami and Bhavananda. AND if TKG was involved we KNOW Bhavananda gave himself away THEN Jayapataka MUST be there. no? MOTIVE is there.
The following site has whispers of the poison givers:
To hear the whole CD of the Nov 10 1977 Conversations from beginning to end, please click here or
http://www.mediafire.com/?ppvh77orok1r7vh
And for Individual highlighted louder version of the whole CD , please go to
http://www.culturedbooks.com/audio/audio-address.html
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Subj: Hoy to tai.
Date: 11/18/99 8:20:00 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: mahesh.r@virgin.net (Mahesh Raja)
Reply-to: mahesh.r@virgin.net (Mahesh Raja)
To: adri@cwcom.net (Adridharan das)
Dear Adridharana Dasa Prabhu
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada! Please accept my humble obeisances.
The GBC’s “Official Investigation” on the poison issue is more like asking
a bunch of foxes to go in and count the number of chickens in a closed
chicken filled compact hatch. And the “official” response will be: there is
NONE! (All evidence hidden in the stomach).
Its an open secret for their fat paypackets and money earning schemes the
GBC have lied and evaded consistently to the society about implementing the
July 9th 1977 final order(signed PERSONALLY by His Divine Grace Srila
Prabhupada) to implement the Ritvik System. What more proof do you require
about their “genuine” sincereity? They only launched “official
Investigation” when the subject could not be be hidden anymore. So lets not
be naive.
You wrote: “Naturally, we can only rely on the actual words Srila
Prabhupada spoke on
this issue to determine whether he himself believed that he was
deliberately poisoned”.
UNLESS Srila Prabhupada actually believed this WHY does he CONFIRM: Hoy to
tai (Its possible).
Srila Prabhupada: Keu bole je keu poison kore diyeche. Hoy to tai.
Translation: Someone says that I’ve been poisoned. It’s possible.
We have to understand that there are two issues:
1) Srila Prabhupada is a Vaisnava of the highest calibre and therefore NOT
going to PROTEST at this barbaric brutal act committed PERSONALLY against him.
2)As an acarya he IS STILL DUTY BOUND to give instructions to the society
what exactly happened ie. on HOW he was poisoned WITHOUT himself protesting
that he HAS been poisoned.
Thus Srila Prabhupada FULFILLS the above two contradictory points by
saying: Keu bole (Someone says). Srila Prabhupada is not going to utter
even a slight protest at this most henious activity. This is the QUALITY of
a VAISNAVA. If “someone says” something which Srila Prabhupada ALREADY KNEW
was happening what is the difference when Srila Prabhupada simply
REPEATS(“I’ve been poisoned”) this is an ACKNOWLEDGEMENT or CONFIRMATION
even if the words are the SAME. This shows Srila Prabhupada as an EXPERT
who did NOT transgress the Vaisnava etiquette. Neither did Srila Prabhupada
fail to disclose that he has been poisoned SIMULTANEOUSLY.
So he SIMULTANEOUSLY said the words “I’ve been poisoned” and did not say
it. Srila Prabhupada next says: Hoy to tai(It’s possible). We have to
UNDERSTAND that Srila Prabhupada is ADMITTING by ACKNOWLEDGING. Srila
Prabhupada is SAYING Hoy to tai. IT’S POSSIBLE!!!! What Srila Prabhupada Is
TELLING US is in the language of inconceivable
SIMULTANEOUS ONENESS and DIFFERENCE that he HAS been poisoned.
Thus Srila Prabhupada is ACTUALLY SPEAKING THE WORDS:
Srila Prabhupada: Keu bole je keu poison kore diyeche. Hoy to tai.
Translation: Someone says that I’ve been poisoned. It’s possible.
Based on 1) here are a few examples on how a Vaisnava does not PERSONALLY
protest:
SB 6.1.16 P
When a devotee is put into hellish conditions, he accepts them as Krsna’s
mercy: tat te ‘nukampam susamiksamanah (Bhag. 10.14.8). He does NOT PROTEST
, “Oh, I am such a great devotee of Krsna. Why have I been put into this
misery?” Instead he thinks, “This is Krsna’s mercy.”
30718BG.LON Lectures
This is the qualification of sadhu. Sadhu is TITIKSAVA, tolerates all kinds
of miserable conditions. He is sadhu. Because this is a place of miserable
condition. A sadhu learns how to tolerate. Sadhu is never disturbed. Yasmin
sthito gurunapi duhkhena na vicalyate. A sadhu, who has got the shelter of
Krsna, if he is placed in the severest type of dangerous condition, he is
never disturbed. Just like Prahlada Maharaja, his father was putting him in
so many dangerous conditions, even he was supplying with poison. He knew
that “My father has given me poison to drink. All right, let me drink. If
Krsna likes, He will save me. I am now put into such dangerous position. I
have to drink. Father is giving poison. Who can check?” And such a big
powerful Hiranyakasipu. The mother cried, requested… He forced the
mother, Prahlada’s mother, “Give your son this poison.” So she begged so
much, but he was a rascal demon. “NO, YOU MUST GIVE.” SO THE MOTHER KNEW,
THE SON KNEW THAT THE RASCAL FATHER IS GIVING THIS POISON. WHAT CAN HE DO, A SMALL CHILD? “ALL RIGHT, LET ME DRINK.” GURUNAPI DUHKHENA NA VICALYATE.
HE IS NOT AGITATING. “ALL RIGHT, IF KRSNA LIKES, I WILL LIVE.” THIS IS THE POSITION OF SADHU. HE IS NOT DISTURBED. TITIKSAVAH. IN ALL CIRCUMSTANCES, HE IS TOLERANT. That is sadhu. Sadhu does not become disturbed. Titiksavah. At the same time, karunikah. He is himself disturbed, but he is merciful to others.
730718BG.LON Lectures
Just like Jesus Christ. He is being CRUCIFIED, and still he is merciful:
“God, these people do not know what they are doing. Please excuse them.”
This is sadhu.
760316SB.MAY Lectures
If you want to chant Hare Krsna mantra, then you have to take this
principle, trnad api sunicena. You have to become humbler than the grass.
Grass, it is lying on the street. Everyone is trampling down. Never
protests. In the lawn you are… Everyone is trampling the grass. There is
no protest. Taror api sahisnuna. AND TOLERANT THAN THE TREE. THE TREE IS
GIVING US SO MUCH HELP. IT IS GIVING US FRUIT, FLOWER, LEAVES, AND WHEN
THERE IS SCORCHING HEAT, SHELTER ALSO. SIT DOWN UNDERNEATH. SO BENEFICIAL,
STILL, WE CUT. AS SOON AS I LIKE, I CUT IT DOWN. BUT THERE IS NO PROTEST.
The tree does not say, “I have given you so much help, and you are cutting
me?” No. Tolerant. Yes. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu has selected, taror
api sahisnuna. And amanina manadena. For oneself one should not expect any
respectful position, but he, the devotee, should offer all respect to
anyone. Amanina manadena kirtaniyah sada harih. If we acquire this
qualification, then we can chant Hare Krsna maha-mantra without any
disturbance. This is the qualification.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
NOTE: here Srila Prabhupada is confirming having heard from “friends” “THEY
all say” BUT with FURTHER pressure from Tamal Krishna he says “I do not
know, but it is said”. We all know about the WHISPERS we heard: here is the
CONFIRMATION Srila Prabhupada DID hear. Again note carefully Srila
Prabhupada is NOT going to PROTEST at this ghastly systematic execution but
still as DUTY of an ACARYA dictates he IS REVEALING it as: “they all ”
“friends”. Perfection of Simultaneous oneness and difference role.
Exchange 1 – Mixture of English, Hindi and Bengali (9/11/77)
Srila Prabhupada: Keu bole je keu poison kore diyeche. Hoy to tai.
Translation: Someone says that I’ve been poisoned. It’s possible.
Balaram Mishra (?): Hmm?
Kaviraja: Kya farma rahe hain?
Translation: What is he saying?
Srila Prabhupada: Koi bolta hai je koi mujhko poison kiya gaya hai.
Translation: Someone says that someone has given poison.
Kaviraja: Kisko?
Translation: To whom?
Srila Prabhupada: Mujhko.
Translation: To me.
Kaviraja: Kaun bolta hai?
Translation: Who said?
Srila Prabhupada: Ye sab friends.
Translation: These all friends.
Bhakticharu: Ke boleche, Srila Prabhupada?
Translation: Who said, Srila Prabhupada?
Srila Prabhupada: Ke boleche.
Translation: They all say.
Tamal Krishna: Krishna das?
Kaviraja: Ao ko kaun poison dega? Kis liye dega?
Translation: Who would give you poison? Why would anyone do that?
Tamal Krishna: Who said that, Srila Prabhupada?
Srila Prabhupada: I do not know, but it is said.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Note: NOW Srila Prabhupada is disclosing the SYMPTOMS of POISONING. What
happens when one is given poison. Again he is NOT protesting but still
DISCLOSING the FACTS when a person is ACTUALLY given poison what happens.
ALSO he CONFIRMS the ACCEPTED SYMPTOMS to be verified in a book. Exchange 2
– Hindi Only (9/11/77)
Kaviraja: Yah, maharaj ji, kotha ap kaise bola aj ki apko koi bola hai ki
apko poison diya hai. Ap ko kuch abhas hua hai, kya?
Translation: Maharaj, how did you say this, that someone has said that
someone has poisoned you? Have you felt something?
Srila Prabhupada: Nahin, aise koi bola je. debe-sa hi ja hota hai. Shayad
koi kitab men likha hai.
Translation: No, not said, but when one is given poison, it happens like
this. It’s written in a book.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Note: once again NO PROTEST. Srila Prabhupada IS giving strong hints on the
symptoms in the book.
Exchange 3 – English Only (9/11/77)
Tamal Krishna: Srila Prabhupada? You said before that you. that it is said
that you were poisoned?:
Srila Prabhupada: No. These kind of symptoms are seen when a man is
poisoned. He said like that, not that I am poisoned.
Tamal Krishna: Did anyone tell you that, or you just know it from before?
Srila Prabhupada: I read something.
Conclusion
SSR 7
Krsna, God, is never tolerant of offenses committed at the lotus feet of a
Vaisnava. Krpambudhi: a Vaisnava is an ocean of mercy. VANCHA-KALPA-TARU:
EVERYONE HAS DESIRES, BUT A VAISNAVA CAN FULFILL ALL DESIRES. KALPA-TARU
MEANS “DESIRE TREE.”
We believe Srila Prabhupada was POSSIBLY poisoned. Srila Prabhupada KNEW it
but did NOT protest on the contrary he FULFILLED their desires.Simultaneously Srila Prabhupada himself disclosed:Hoy to tai. He was POSSIBLY poisoned. The motive: discarding July9th 1977 instruction (to implement the ritvik system) and usurp Srila Prabhupada’s disciples and properties. Money, power, fame,self-aggrandizement of self made gurus (voted-in cheaters).
Srila Prabhupada is ACTUALLY SPEAKING THE WORDS:
Srila Prabhupada: Keu bole je keu poison kore diyeche. Hoy to tai.
Translation: Someone says that I’ve been poisoned. IT’S POSSIBLE
Yes —we agree HOY TO TAI.
Note: Vahi bat NOT ONLY means “That same discussion” but can ALSO mean: the
SAME words or the SAME talk. Srila Prabhupada: Vahi bat… je koi hamko
poison kiya. Translation: That same discussion . that someone has poisoned
me.
So instead of the above translation we have: Translation: That SAME
words… THAT: “SOMEONE HAS POISONED ME”.
Czemu Prabhupad przyjął ich na uczniów?
Czemu dał im sannyasę?
Czy Prabhupad wiedział z kim ma do czynienia?
Czy oni intonowali maha-mantrę Hare Krsna?
Czy przestrzegali zasad?
Czemu stali się mordercami?
Czy przyłaczyli się do ruchu w celu zabicia Prabhupada?
Czemu Krsna pozwolił im otruć Prabhupada?
Why Prabhupada took them to the disciples?
Why give them sannyasa?
Is Prabhupada knew who he was dealing with?
Do they chant the maha-mantra Hare Krishna?
Do you observe the rules?
Why become murderers?
Do you joined the movement to kill Prabhupada?
Why Krsna allowed them to poison Prabhupada?
Bhakta Waldemar:Why Krsna allowed them to poison Prabhupada?
Mahesh: SEEING ALL THESE REVERSES AFFECT DEVOTEES, ONE SHOULD NOT BE DISTURBED; ONE SHOULD SIMPLY UNDERSTAND THAT IN THESE MATTERS THERE MUST BE SOME PLAN OF THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD.
SB 3.16.37 P The Two Doorkeepers of Vaikuntha, Jaya and Vijaya, Cursed by the Sages
When something is arranged by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one should not be disturbed by it, even if it appears to be a reverse according to one’s calculations. For example, sometimes we see that a powerful preacher is killed, or sometimes he is put into difficulty, just as Haridasa Thakura was. He was a great devotee who came into this material world to execute the will of the Lord by preaching the Lord’s glories. But Haridasa was punished at the hands of the Kazi by being beaten in twenty-two marketplaces. Similarly, Lord Jesus Christ was crucified, and Prahlada Maharaja was put through so many tribulations. The Pandavas, who were direct friends of Krsna, lost their kingdom, their wife was insulted, and they had to undergo many severe tribulations. SEEING ALL THESE REVERSES AFFECT DEVOTEES, ONE SHOULD NOT BE DISTURBED; ONE SHOULD SIMPLY UNDERSTAND THAT IN THESE MATTERS THERE MUST BE SOME PLAN OF THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD.
Bhakta Waldemar:Why Prabhupada took them to the disciples?
Why give them sannyasa?
Mahesh: Srila Prabhupada gave them A CHANCE to be purified by taking SHELTER under him but THEY GAVE UP the shelter of Srila Prabhupada:
PANCARATRIKI-VIDHI MEANS IF ANY ONE HAS A LITTLE INCLINATION FOR SPIRITUAL DEVELOPMENT, HE SHOULD BE GIVEN CHANCE. THIS INITIATION MEANS TO GIVE CHANCE
680724IN.MON Lectures
This is the definition given by Srila Rupa Gosvami, that to become a devotee of the Lord, Krsna, one has to follow the principles of sruti and smrti, and pancaratriki-vidhi. ESPECIALLY IN THIS AGE, KALI-YUGA, THERE IS NO VEDIC VIDHI. Because Vedic vidhi is lost. FORMERLY, INITIATION WAS OFFERED TO A PERSON WHO IS ACTUALLY BORN OF A BRAHMANA FATHER. Otherwise… Or the higher caste, the brahmanas, the ksatriyas, and the vaisyas, they were offered initiation, and the sudras were not offered. That was the Vedic system. But in this age the sastra says that kalau sudra sambhava. IN THIS AGE OF KALI PRACTICALLY THERE IS NO MORE ANY BRAHMANA, KSATRIYA, OR VAISYA. MAYBE BY NAME, BUT IN QUALIFICATION THEY ARE NOT EXISTING. EVERYONE IS SUPPOSED TO BE SUDRA. SO IN KALI-YUGA THE PANCARATRIKI-VIDHI IS ACCEPTED. The pancaratriki-vidhi is also Vedic vidhi, corollary, given by Narada Mahamuni. But it is accepted by the Vedic followers, pancaratriki-vidhi.
PANCARATRIKI-VIDHI MEANS IF ANY ONE HAS A LITTLE INCLINATION FOR SPIRITUAL DEVELOPMENT, HE SHOULD BE GIVEN CHANCE. THIS INITIATION MEANS TO GIVE CHANCE. The Bhagavata says that kirata-hunandhra-pulinda-pulkasa abhira-sumbha yavanah khasadayah. These are the list of the candalas or less than the sudras. So Bhagavata gives open road for everyone. Even one is kirata… Kirata means… Generally they are called aborigines, or the very black aborigines living in the jungles, they are called kirata. In our country it is called hanta (?). So anyway, Hun, Hun a class of people in the hill side of north Arctic. They are called Huns. So kirata-hunandhra-pulinda-pulkasa abhira-sumbha… There are very great list of the candalas, less than the sudras. The Bhagavata says ye ‘nye ca papa, not these classes, even less than them, even they are born in the family of sinful tribe, they can be also purified. Sudhyanti, they can be also purified. Kirata-hunandhra-pulinda-pulkasa abhira-sumbha yavanah khasadayah, ye ‘nye ca papa sudhyanti. They can be purified by association of Vaisnava. Yad-apa, yad-apasrayasrayah. UPASRAYA MEANS JUST LIKE A PERSON WHO IS A DEVOTEE OF KRSNA AND IF ANYONE TAKES SHELTER OF SUCH DEVOTEE, HE CAN BE PURIFIED. THIS IS CALLED PARAMPARA SYSTEM
Bhakta Waldemar: Do they chant the maha-mantra Hare Krishna?
Mahesh: SRILA BHAKTISIDDHANTA SARASVATI THAKURA STATES THAT THE WORD VYAVAHITA (“IMPROPERLY UTTERED”) IS NOT USED HERE TO REFER TO THE MUNDANE VIBRATION OF THE LETTERS OF THE ALPHABET. SUCH NEGLIGENT UTTERANCE FOR THE SENSE GRATIFICATION OF MATERIALISTIC PERSONS IS NOT A VIBRATION OF TRANSCENDENTAL SOUND.
Antya 3.59 The Glories of Srila Haridasa Thakura
“The letters of the holy name have so much spiritual potency that they act even when uttered improperly.
PURPORT
SRILA BHAKTISIDDHANTA SARASVATI THAKURA STATES THAT THE WORD VYAVAHITA (“IMPROPERLY UTTERED”) IS NOT USED HERE TO REFER TO THE MUNDANE VIBRATION OF THE LETTERS OF THE ALPHABET. SUCH NEGLIGENT UTTERANCE FOR THE SENSE GRATIFICATION OF MATERIALISTIC PERSONS IS NOT A VIBRATION OF TRANSCENDENTAL SOUND. Utterance of the holy name while one engages in sense gratification is an impediment on the path toward achieving ecstatic love for Krsna. On the other hand, if one who is eager for devotional service utters the holy name even partially or improperly, the holy name, who is identical with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, exhibits its spiritual potency because of that person’s offenseless utterance. Thus one is relieved from all unwanted practices, and one gradually awakens his dormant love for Krsna.
Dziękuję Ci Mahesh Raja Prabhu za odpowiedzi.
Thank you Mahesh Raja Prabhu for answers.