American “gurus” have ruined ISKCON’s reputation
By Pratyatosa das
If Srila Prabhupada can say “American boys and girls” dozens of times, then what’s wrong with saying “American gurus?” Do you also think that Prabhupada, by talking in this way, has proven that he is on the bodily platform?
Please keep in mind that it’s the American “gurus” who, more than any other group, have ruined ISKCON’s reputation. Therefore, they, as a notorious group of losers, deserve to be criticized.
Also, please keep in mind that making propaganda in India against the “American gurus” might be helping the Bangalore side of the ISKCON Mumbai vs. ISKCON Bangalore court case by taking advantage of prejudice against Westerners putting themselves forward as being more spiritually advanced than Indians. We should be “doing whatever it takes to win,” not getting hung up on terminology.
Ys, Pratyatosa Dasa
———
Reply from Janardan Das to Vaikunthanath
Hare Krishna Vaikunthanath Prabhu,
Well put. Please be careful though in inadvertently propagating/implying this philosophy that the Westerners are to blame, and the Indians are all pure Vaisnavas.
Perhaps you are personally innocent of this, but it is essentially bogus propaganda which has been used to cheaply attract the mind of many Indians. We must remember that it was also Indian disciples of Om Visnupada Paramahamsa Parivrajacacharya Bhaktisiddhahta Maharaj Goswami who also ignored his instructions simply for name, fame and recognition, by appointing themselves also as Acharyas, thus eviscerating the Guadiya Matha.
This human tendency is not presupposed by skin colour. Always remain conscious of this. Many innocent Westerners (who helped build up the movement) were completely cheated and forced out by the offenders.
Our preaching must be pure and beyond reproach in order to have the desired effect. This means eliminating pride and not preaching on the bodily platform.
Please accept this offering in the mood it was intended, that is, not an attack on your good and noble self, but simply to address an issue which I believe is a concern of His Divine Grace.
Your servant,
Janardan Das
Thank you to Vaikunthanath & Janardan prabhus for these comments. Could you please advise where to find Rupanuga das’ comment that is being replied to. I have seen a few but would appreciate the reference for continuity.
Yes Janardan prabhu, I would expect there are just as many ‘Western’ ritviks as there are ‘Indian’ ritviks who follow Srila Prabhupada’s authorized system for the continuation of the initiation process. Here in Australia, most of us are ‘out of the closet’, but there are still many who just perform their deity puja and have nought to do with admin.. that’s their choice.
I think even a cursory look at the list of guroos & gbc would reveal many of Indian ‘nationality’ who have whole heartedly embraced the bogus zonal/rubber-stamp invention just as the western bodied crims have done. They are all ‘tarred with the same brush’ = PAD!
I received initiation directly from Srila Prabhupada in Feb 1973 and served as his ritvik representative from ’75 until his vapu departure by recommending initiates to him for 1st & 2nd initiations as temple president. I still have his original letters requesting me to perform yajna formalities for his new disciples. My regret is that during the 80s as TP, I supported the ‘zonal mafia system’ until I resigned in 89,due to disallusionment with gbc & guroo ‘falldowns’. I was fortunate to receive a manuscript-type copy of Krsna Kant prabhu’s ‘The Final Order’ in ’96, not knowing how they even had my address. I dismissed it at first, thinking just another bogus off-shoot, but after a short time the REALITY of the offense against His Divine Grace became very clear.
If that system as he ordained was still in place, ISKCON would certainly be a wonderful society, as opposed to the fabricating, cheating & corruption etc that we see today from the top down.
The leaders, both Indian & ‘western’ must be held accountable for the 2 great offenses to His Divine Grace, ie
1) Stealing his disciples & daksine by not following his final order… (my disciples>>you are ritvik only).
2) Changing the written words of his translations and even his Bhaktivedanta Purports.
Your humble street-sweeper servant,
Balaram das
Lectures: Nectar of Devotion Lectures: The Nectar of Devotion — Vrndavana, November 1, 1972: 721101ND.VRN:
So that activity and karmīs’ activity, there is difference. The karmī’s activity is on upādhi. “I am American,” “I am Indian,” “I am Hindu,” “I am Muslim,” “I am Christian.” With this upādhi, we are acting. But bhaktimeans without upādhi. Sarvopādhi-virnirmuktam. Activity without upādhi. Working not as American. Working not as Indian. Working not as Hindu. Working not as Muslim. That is sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. If we think that “I am Christian,” “I am Hindu,” “I am American,” that is with upādhi. When we purely think that “We are…,” or “I am servant of Kṛṣṇa. My only business is to satisfy Kṛṣṇa,” that activity is called bhakti. If I become interested in some party, that is not… Sometimes people criticize these American and European devotees, that they think that “They are American devotee; we are Hindu devotee. There is difference.” This is not bhakti-mārga. This is upādhi. Why you should think yourself as Hindu? Why you should think of others who have come from America as American? That is less intelligent. Kṛṣṇa-bhakta… Vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. If one thinks of Vaiṣṇava as belonging to this class, this nation, he has no vision. Nārakī. That is called nārakī-buddhiḥ. Vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ arcye śilādhīr guruṣu nara-matir vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. If we think the Deity as made of stone and made of wood, arcye śilā-dhīr; guruṣu, nara-matiḥ, if we accept spiritual master as ordinary human being; vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ, and if we take a Vaiṣṇava as belonging to America or Europe or India… No. They are transcendental. Neither the Deity in the temple is stone, neither the spiritual master is ordinary human being, nor the Vaiṣṇava belongs to any caste. This vision is perfect vision. When you come to this vision, that is bhakti. Tat-paratvena nirmalam. A bhakta has to become purified. Tat-paratvena, being dovetailed with the service of tat, om tat sat. Tat-param. This is the process of devotional service. One should not be designated “I am this,” “I am that,” “I am that.” No. The world should unite. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so nice that one should forget that he’s Indian or Hindu or Christian or American or Indian. Everything should unite as servant of Kṛṣṇa. That is bhakti-mārga. Unfortunately, they distinguish between American Vaiṣṇava and Indian Vaiṣṇava: brāhmaṇa Vaiṣṇava, śūdra Vaiṣṇava. No. A Vaiṣṇava is Vaiṣṇava. Viṣṇur asya devataḥ iti vaiṣṇava. One who has accepted Viṣṇu as “my Lord,” he has no designation. A Vaiṣṇava has no such distinction. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. (More…)
‘If Srila Prabhupada can say “American boys and girls” dozens of times, then what’s wrong with saying “American gurus?”’
Good question. The difference is that Srila Prabhupada did not use it in a derogatory sense and in this way it could not cause offence. (Please show me an example where he did).
When one says ‘American Gurus’ it smacks of sectarianism by its negative connotation. I am not American yet I am offended on their behalf, as I would be for negative caste-based slights against our other European or Indian Vaisnava brothers.
It starts when one begins class-ifying devotees into caste instead of quality.
Srila Prabhupada exemplified the correct term which should be used, when addressing his wayward Godbrothers acting as Acharyas, i.e. ‘Guru Bhogis’ (enjoyers of the property of the guru). This term is bonafide and non-sectarian.
This addresses their qualities not their externalities, and therefore, there in no broader offence to those who are also members on that caste, rather than a member of that quality.
Another example is that if one calls the GBC the ‘Jew B C’, this will cause offence to parties who still identify as such. It is foolish to assume that all devotees are Paramahamsas and as such, have zero identification with the body, and therefore should not be offended. Most devotees are not uttama adhikaries. Why then risk offending fellow Godbrothers with negative sectarian terms?
Finally, His Grace Balaram Prabhu astutely cited His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada, who is our supreme authority (if we selectively follow him we are like the Guru Bhogis),who states in this connection to this matter:
(from Lectures: Nectar of Devotion Lectures: The Nectar of Devotion — Vrndavana, November 1, 1972: 721101ND.VRN)
‘Sometimes people criticize these American and European devotees, that they think that “They are American devotee; we are Hindu devotee. There is difference.” This is not bhakti-mārga. This is upādhi. Why you should think yourself as Hindu? Why you should think of others who have come from America as American? That is less intelligent. Kṛṣṇa-bhakta… Vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. If one thinks of Vaiṣṇava as belonging to this class, this nation, he has no vision.’
Your servant,
Janardan Das.
Dear Janardan Prabhu.
It is a known fact that Srila Prabhupada coined the term “American disease” to describe unauthorized changes of many things including book changes.
Referring to the wheels on the Rathayatra cart (San Francisco 20th July 1975)…..
Lilamrta Vol 2
Because the builders of the carts decided to make steel wheels instead of the usual wooden ones, difficulty arose. Srila Prabhupada had warned them, “This is your American disease – always changing.
Do not change the old design”
Also Referring to book changes….
Ramesvara interview 1981.
“And Prabhupada gave an example that the disease to do something differently is so inherent in the Americans that for the sake of doing things differently we would walk on our hands rather than our feet”
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
Srila Prabhupada is clearly ‘singling out’ the Americans here!
Changes to powers of the GBC
Changes to Srila Prabhupada’s order to remain the ‘sole diksa guru and current link of ISKCON
Changes to Srila Prabhupada’s books, which His Divine Grace explains are the ‘spoken words of Sri Krishna Himself as conveyed to Srila Prabhupada!
Changes concerning Mayavadi contamination.
Changes concerning ‘Hindu-ization’
Changes concerning mundane “Interfaith”
Prabhupada is saying all these changes “WILL RENDER ISKCON FINISHED!” As this is the result of a disease! and the symptom of this disease is UNNECESSARY CHANGES MADE WITHOUT THE AUTHORIZATION OF THE ACHARYA
9 out of the 11 ”bogus gurus” are American and Srila Prabhupada is ‘singling them out’ There is no bullshit “political correctness” going on here! Their power is disproportionate to the rest of the World (which they are also trying to change to suit only themselves also!) to the detriment of everyone else! Is it not a fact? What other explanation is there to understand what Srila Prabhupada is saying?
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
By following Srila Prabhupada’s instructions one can become Vaisnava but those who disobey Srila Prabhupada’s order as sole diksa guru of ISKCON they are demons, thats all! Bogus cheating pseudo “gurus” only means that they are demons fully immersed in the bodily conception of life which means that most of the 11 are American and half of them are ”Pseudo Jews” and Zionists.
Israel was created by the ‘Balfour Declaration’ which was an arrangement whereby Britain “gifted” Palestine to the Zionists in return for America’s coming to the aid of the British in WW1. Israel (20,770 sq km) is smaller than South Australia’s Anna Creek cattle station (24,000 sq kms) but the Rothschilds, Rockerfeller Zionists control half the world through the banks, oil corporations, Hollywood, news media and politicians.
They are leeches and parasites just like those who poisoned Srila Prabhupada, and “control” FISKCON and abuse the genuine followers of Srila Prabhupada, try to bastardize his books, plunder money and properties etc etc. Half of these 11 “bogus” usurper American Zionist ”pseudo Jews” (real Jews denounce Zionism) had “control” of half of FISKCON after they poisoned Srila Prabhupada if that is not ‘disproportionate’ I don’t know what is.
They are NOT devotees and they have NO REALIZATION as it is IMPOSSIBLE to gain any realization if one disobeys the Acharya, that is why they constantly change, adjust, speculate, Interfaith, Krishna West, Mayavadi nonsense, Hindu-ization always thinking that they are going to ”hit pay-dirt”………..RASCALS AND DEMONS THAT’S ALL! RASCALS AND DEMONS CANNOT TRANSCEND BODILY DESIGNATION!
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
Janardan Das: Most devotees are not uttama adhikaries.
Mahesh: Most devotees? correction – NONE of them are Uttama Adhikaris – they are NOT even considered as devotees having DISOBEYED Srila Prabhupada’s July 9th 1977 Directive to accept the Ritvik System. Aside from that, Uttama Adhikari is not so cheap one has to come to the QUALIFIED Brahmana (Kanistha) FIRST—– and even THAT is just the beginning stage.
Brahmana (Kanistha)
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/03-09/editorials4258.htm
They are just a bunch of DISHONEST, LIARS, CHEATS,THUGS,CROOKS, DEMONS:
THESE PSEUDO RELIGIONISTS ARE HEADING TOWARD THE MOST OBNOXIOUS PLACE IN THE UNIVERSE AFTER THE COMPLETION OF THEIR SPIRITUAL MASTER BUSINESS, WHICH THEY CONDUCT SIMPLY FOR SENSE GRATIFICATION
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=44093#more-44093
Pratyatosa das says ;
If Srila Prabhupada can say “American boys and girls” dozens of times, then what’s wrong with saying “American gurus?”
MY ANSWER IS ;
” In the beginning, these American boys and girls did follow HDG. Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions. That is why Srila Prabhupada did mention (American boys and girls ) dozens of times whereas what’s wrong with saying “American gurus” is that a set of those obedient followers not only American boys but also other followers / leaders around the world did disobey Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions. So identifying those disobedient leaders followers with the word “American gurus ” would be considered on the bodily platform. No doubt about it.
Do you also think that Prabhupada, by talking in this way, has proven that he is on the bodily platform?
MY ANSWER IS ;
” Since Srila Prabhupada did accept the service from his followers on behalf of His Guru Maharaja’s Order to propagate the mission of Lord Shri Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, therefore, mentioning such name “American boys and girls ” when they were following and obeying Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions in rendering their respective services for the mission does not make Srila Prabhupada on the bodily platform.
Therefore, the name GURU BHOGIS as mentioned in the comments of Janardan Das Prabhu seems quite appropriate.
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.