(by: Mahesh Raja)
Dec 15, UK (SUN) — Part One.
Suria das whole audacious project is to REPLACE Srila Prabhupada with Uttama-Adhikari IMITATORS.
Lets go thru his quotes:
Srila Prabhupada Room Conversation, July 18, 1971, Detroit:
Prabhupada: “Yes. All of them will take over. These students, who are initiated from me, all of them will act as I am doing. Just like I have got many Godbrothers, they are all acting. Similarly, all these disciples which I am making, initiating, they are being trained to become future spiritual masters.”
The key word here is ACTING as I have mentioned in my article, “Diksa Given to Madhyama-adhikari is Not a Formality“.
What is wrong if they ACT AS in OFFICIATING (RITVIK Representative) capacity? Srila Prabhupada mentioned his Godbrothers were not ACARYA so they MUST be ACTING capacity—NOT OTHERWISE. That’s why Srila Prabhupada says “Just like I have got many Godbrothers, they are ALL ACTING.”
They CAN ACT by giving FORMALITY ceremony of name giving, etc.
Srila Prabhupada Conversation with Interviewer, October 16, 1976:
Interviewer: “What is the procedure of the movement? Do you initiate yourself all the disciples or do your other disciples also do that?
Prabhupada: Well, initiation or no initiation, first thing is knowledge. (break) …knowledge. Initiation is formality. Just like you go to a school for knowledge, and admission is formality. That is not very important thing.”“Everyone can, whoever is initiated, he is competent to make disciples. But as a matter of etiquette they do not do so in the presence of their spiritual master. This is the etiquette. Otherwise, they are competent. They can make disciples and spread they are competent to make disciples.” (Detroit, July 18, 1971)
No mention of DIKSA here, only of DISCIPLES. Kanistha CAN also make disciples. Diksa has been explained.
In Nectar of Instruction chapter 5, Srila Rupa Gosvami advises the devotee to be intelligent enough to distinguish between the kanistha-adhikari, madhyama-adhikari and uttama-adhikari. The devotee should also know his own position and should not try to imitate a devotee situated on a higher platform. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura has given some practical hints to the effect that an uttama-adhikari Vaisnava can be recognized by his ability to convert many fallen souls to Vaisnavism. One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikari. A neophyte Vaisnava or a Vaisnava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, but such disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master. ((Purport, Nectar of Instruction)
Srila Prabhupada’s Lecture, December 10, 1976, Hyderabad:
“So we got this information from His Divine Grace Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, and that knowledge is still going on. You are receiving through his servant. And in future the same knowledge will go to your students. This is called parampara system. Evam parampara prap… It is not that you have become a student and you’ll remain student. No. One day you shall become also guru and make more students, more students, more. That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s mission, not that perpetually… Yes, one should remain perpetually a student, but he has to act as guru. That is the mission of Caitanya Mahaprabhu.”
Note again the word “ACT as guru”. Refer to ” Diksa Given to Madhyama-adhikari is Not a Formality“.
Officiating (Ritvik Acarya) on behalf of Srila Prabhupada
Suria das prabhu wrote:
“Please, my point is, there are Spiritual Masters around to take initiation from, The Vedic injunction is one must approach a bona-fide Spiritual Master and take initiation from Him. His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada is a great personality, he has physically left us, but his instructions remain, now we should at least give some respect to those Spiritual Masters who are physically around today who are preaching and trying hard to spread Krishna Consciousness.”
He is talking rubbish – Diksa is not about physical. Refer to ” Diksa Given to Madhyama-adhikari is Not a Formality“.
Suria das prabhu wrote:
“And this understanding IN no way supports the outlandish claim of the Ritviks that Srila Prabhupada will remain diksa guru even after he left the material world. Srila Prabhupada can appoint a Guru while he is around but he did not do so as he said… “on my order” one can actually be Guru. But since he did not order, it means one can be a Guru after Srila Prabhupada departs where it is confirmed as: Because in my presence one should not become guru”.
So AT LAST we have an ADMISSION Srila Prabhupada DID NOT ORDER. Thank you very much, Suria das Prabhu.
Srila Prabhupada Conversation, May 28, 1977, Vrindavan:
Prabhupada: “When I order, “You become guru,” he becomes regular guru. That’s all. He becomes disciple of my disciple. That’s it.”
“When I order” — NO ORDER WAS GIVEN
Srila Prabhupada Lecture on Bhagavad-gita, October 28, 1975, Nairobi:
Prabhupada: “Try to understand. Don’t go very speedily. A guru can become guru when he’s ordered by his guru. That’s all. Otherwise nobody can become guru.”
Physical presence of the spiritual master is NOT required. We have to choose the PROMINENT and Srila Prabhupada IS the PROMINENT ACARYA .
Srila Prabhupada Letter to Dayananda, April 12, 1968:
“Regarding parampara system: there is nothing to wonder for big gaps. Just like we belong to the Brahma Sampradaya, so we accept it from Krishna to Brahma, Brahma to Narada, Narada to Vyasadeva, Vyasadeva to Madhva, and between Vyasadeva and Madhva there is a big gap. But it is sometimes said that Vyasadeva is still living, and Madhva was fortunate enough to meet him directly. In a similar way, we find in the Bhagavad-gita that the Gita was taught to the sungod, some millions of years ago, but Krishna has mentioned only three names in this parampara system–namely, Vivasvan, Manu, and Iksvaku; and so these gaps do not hamper from understanding the parampara system. We have to pick up the prominent acaryas, and follow from him. There are many branches also from the parampara system, and it is not possible to record all the branches and sub-branches in the disciplic succession. We have to pick up from the authority of the acharya in whatever sampradaya we belong to.”
Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.9.8 Purport – Answers by Citing the Lord’ s Version:
“The potency of transcendental sound is never minimized because the vibrator is apparently absent.”
Srila Prabhupada’s Lecture, January 13, 1969, Los Angeles:
“…the spiritual master, those who are acaryas, their body is not considered as materiel. Arcye sila-dhir gurusu nara-matir. Just like the statue of Krsna, to consider that “This is a stone…” Similarly, arcye sila-dhir gurusu na… Gurusu means those who are acaryas, to accept their body as ordinary man’s body, this is denied in the sastras. So although a physical body is not present, the vibration should be accepted as the presence of the spiritual master, vibration. What we have heard from the spiritual master, that is living.”
Caitanya-caritamrta Adi lila 1.35 – The Spiritual Masters:
“There is no difference between the spiritual master’s instructions and the spiritual master himself. In his absence, therefore, his words of direction should be the pride of the disciple.”
Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Upendra, February 13, 1968:
“There are four Sampradayas from the beginning of the creation. One is called Brahma Sampradaya, and is coming down by disciplic succession from Brahma; another Sampradaya is coming down from Laksmi, called Sri Sampradaya; another is coming down from the Kumaras, they are known as Nimbarka Sampradaya; another Sampradaya is coming from Lord Siva, Rudra Sampradaya or Visnu Swami. These are four bona fide Sampradayas that are accepted by the bona fide spiritualists. The Impersonalist Sampradaya is not original neither the Impersonalist Sampradaya or party can help us. At the present moment there are so many Sampradayas, but we have to test them about their method of disciplic understanding. Anyway, all the four Sampradayas above mentioned, they are after worshipping the Supreme Lord Visnu, in His different Expansions, and some of them are in favor of worshipping Radha Krishna. In the later age the Brahma Sampradaya was handed down though Madhva Acarya; in this Madhva Acarya disciplic succession came Isvara Puri. This Isvara Puri was accepted as Spiritual Master of Lord Caitanya. Therefore, we being in disciplic succession of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, we are known as the Madhva Sampradaya. And because Lord Caitanya appeared in Bengal, which country is called Gaudadesa, our Sampradaya party is known as Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya. But all these Sampradayas are non-different from one another because they believe and worship the Supreme Lord. Any other Sampradaya who are Impersonalist or voidist or non-devotee, they are rejected by us. MY GURU MAHARAJA WAS IN THE 10TH GENERATION FROM LORD CAITANYA. WE ARE 11TH FROM LORD CAITANYA. THE DISCIPLIC SUCESSION IS AS FOLLOWS: 1. SRI KRISHNA, 2. BRAHMA, 3. NARADA, 4. VYASA, 5. MADHVA, 6. PADMANABHA, 7. NRIHARI, 8. MADHAVA, 9. AKSHOBHYA, 10. JAYATIRTHA, 11. JNANASINDHU, 12. PURUSOTTAMA, 13. VIDYANIDHI, 14. RAJENDRA, 15. JAYADHARMA, 16. PURUSOTTAMA, 17. VYASATIRTHA, 18. LAKSMIPATI, 19. MADHAVENDRA PURI, 20. ISVARA PURI (ADVAITA, NITYANANDA) 21. SRI CAITANYA MAHAPRABHU, 22. (SVARUPA, SANATANA) RUPA, 23.(JIVA) RAGHUNATH, 24. KRISHNA DASA, 25. NAROTTAMA, 26. VISVANATHA, 27. (BALADEVA.) JAGANNATHA, 28. (BHAKTIVINODE) GAURA-KISORA, 29. SRILA BHAKTISIDDHANTA SARASVATI, SRI BARSHABHANAVIDAYITADAS, 30. SRI SRIMAD BHAKTIVEDANTA.”
Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.29.17 Purport – Explanation of Devotional Service by Lord Kapila:
“In Bhagavad-gita, Thirteenth Chapter, it is clearly stated that one should execute devotional service and advance on the path of spiritual knowledge by accepting the acarya. ACARYOPASANAM: ONE SHOULD WORSHIP AN ACARYA, A SPIRITUAL MASTER WHO KNOWS THINGS AS THEY ARE. THE SPIRITUAL MASTER MUST BE IN THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION FROM KRSNA. THE PREDECESSORS OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER ARE HIS SPIRITUAL MASTER, HIS GRAND SPIRITUAL MASTER, HIS GREAT-GRAND SPIRITUAL MASTER AND SO ON, WHO FORM THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION OF ACARYAS.”
Isopanisad 12:
“The Lord states that as soon as one reaches Him by devotional service–which is the one and only way to approach the Personality of Godhead–one attains complete freedom from the bondage of birth and death. In other words, the path of salvation from the material clutches fully depends on the principles of knowledge and detachment gained from serving the Lord. The pseudo religionists have neither knowledge nor detachment from material affairs, for most of them want to live in the golden shackles of material bondage under the shadow of philanthropic activities disguised as religious principles. By a false display of religious sentiments, they present a show of devotional service while indulging in all sorts of immoral activities. In this way they pass as spiritual masters and devotees of God. Such violators of religious principles have no respect for the authoritative acaryas, the holy teachers in the strict disciplic succession. THEY IGNORE THE VEDIC INJUNCTION ACARYOPASANA–“ONE MUST WORSHIP THE ACARYA” — and Krsna’s statement in the Bhagavad-gita (4.2) evam parampara-praptam, “This supreme science of God is received through the disciplic succession.” Instead, to mislead the people in general they themselves become so-called acaryas, but they do not even follow the principles of the acaryas. These rogues are the MOST DANGEROUS ELEMENTS in human society. Because there is no religious government, they escape punishment by the law of the state. They cannot, however, escape the law of the Supreme, who has clearly declared in the Bhagavad-gita that envious demons in the garb of religious propagandists shall be thrown into the darkest regions of hell (Bg. 16.19-20). SRI ISOPANISAD CONFIRMS THAT THESE PSEUDO RELIGIONISTS ARE HEADING TOWARD THE MOST OBNOXIOUS PLACE IN THE UNIVERSE AFTER THE COMPLETION OF THEIR SPIRITUAL MASTER BUSINESS, WHICH THEY CONDUCT SIMPLY FOR SENSE GRATIFICATION.”
Interviewer: “What is the procedure of the movement? Do you initiate yourself all the disciples or do your other disciples also do that?
Prabhupada: Well, initiation or no initiation, first thing is knowledge. (break) …knowledge. Initiation is formality. Just like you go to a school for knowledge, and admission is formality. That is not very important thing.”
The same confusion was going on even among Christians after the departure of Jesus Christ.
In the early Church all followers started to make factions among themselves. Every one of them was declaring, ‘I belong to Paul,’ or ‘I belong to Apollos,’ or ‘I belong to Cephas,’ or ‘I belong to Christ.’
It seemed like Christ has been split up. But saint Paul warned that Christ sent his disciples not to baptize, but to preach the gospel. The main point was to preach, and baptism was secondary.
Jesus said to all his disciples, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”
And Paul said, “Has Christ been split up? Was it Paul that was crucified for you, or was it in Paul’s name that you were baptized?”
When Jesus preached the gospel it was recorded, “Now when Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus was making and baptizing more disciples than John (although Jesus himself was not baptizing, just his disciples), he left Judea and returned to Galilee.”
From the above we can understand that Jesus Christ allowed his disciples to initiate, not in disciples’ name, but in the name of “the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” That was the “mantra.”
Jesus strategy for winning the world was simple: win a few men and women to Christ, train them well, and release them to repeat the process over again. We can also learn much about discipleship by studying how Jesus trained the Twelve. Christ was more action-oriented; his disciples learned by doing as he did. In so doing, they combined right teaching with changed behavior and attitudes. Since Christianity today lost most of the original discipline training, what modern Christians are often left to follow is a good moral example, not a dynamic, Satan-conquering Lord. This results in overly intellectual disciples – not people who cause demons to tremble.
But initiation into a Christian Church was simple, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Teach them to observe all that I have commanded you and, remember, I am with you always, even to the end of the world.”
So, that was Jesus’ way. Was that Prabhupada’s way also? It works from the practical point.
Hare Krsna. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommends that His name should be heard in every nook and corner of the world. How is this possible unless one preaches everywhere? The cult of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu is bhāgavata-dharma, and He especially recommends kṛṣṇa-kathā, or the cult of Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. He recommends that every Indian, considering this task to be para-upakāra, or welfare activity, take the Lord’s message to other residents of the world. “Other residents of the world” does not refer only to those who are exactly like the Indian brāhmaṇas and kṣatriyas, or like the caste brāhmaṇas, who claim to be brāhmaṇas because they were born in the families of brāhmaṇas. The principle that only Indians and Hindus should be brought into the Vaiṣṇava cult is a mistaken idea. There should be propaganda to bring everyone to the Vaiṣṇava cult. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for this purpose. There is no bar to propagating the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement even among
With regards to Bhakta Suria’s statement: “but his instructions remain, now we should at least give some respect to those Spiritual Masters who are physically around today who are preaching and trying hard to spread Krishna Consciousness.” it should be noted that Srila Prabhupada states in the Srimad Bhagavatam:
“. Even in India, this point has been enunciated by Śrīla Sanātana Gosvāmī in his book Hari-bhakti-vilāsa, which is smṛti and is the authorized Vedic guide for Vaiṣṇavas in their daily behavior. Sanātana Gosvāmī says that as bell metal can turn to gold when mixed with mercury in a chemical process, so, by the bona fide dīkṣā, or initiation method, anyone can become a Vaiṣṇava. One should take initiation from a bona fide spiritual master coming in the disciplic succession, who is authorized by his predecessor spiritual master. I his is called dīkṣā-vidhāna. Lord Kṛṣṇa states in Bhagavad-gītā, vyapāśritya: one should accept a spiritual master. By this process the entire world can be converted to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.”
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/sb/4/8/54
One has to be duly authorized by the predecessor acarya.o the question remainjs: when did Srila Prabhupada specifically authorize any of these ISKCON GBCs and leaders to be diksa-gurus,. as they claimed in 1978-1979? When did they receive the specific order from Srila Prabhupada?
daso’smi
Yasoda nandana dasa