The Torben Confusion on Parampara

Comments

1. one fallen servant says:

   16. December 2017 at 1:52 am

   Ritvik-Representative of acarya-system are Sastra confirmed but our Iskcon GBC rubber stamped 2/3 hand-vote in guru system is NOT, like here the proof :

   >In addition to ISKCON’s current guru system not having any order from Srila Prabhupada to justify its existence, the GBC’s official “brain”, the “Sastric Advisory Council” (SAC), has said that the process by which it does authorise gurus, via voting them in, is not based on “guru, sadhu and sastra” : “Our present system has institutionalized a process of senior devotees voting or offering no-objection to prospective gurus. But we do not find that this institutionalized blessing seeking process is mentioned by guru, sadhu or sastra as the way that one is authorized to become a guru.” (Balancing the roles of the GBC and the disciple in Guru selection, SAC)

   >Conclusion: Follow the order, not tradition

   Reply
2. Mahesh Raja says:

   16. December 2017 at 8:33 pm

   Urdhvaga das: This dumbass BHAKTA TORBEN, concocting his own philosophy, says: “There are SO MANY instructions from Srila Prabhupada, like this, that annihilate the Ritvik-dogma and mal-practice of ‘initiating’ devotees to Srila Prabhupada though he left his mortal frame in 1977.” (actually Srila Prabhupada was poisoned!)

   BUT SRILA PRABHUPADA SAYS: “Make your own field and continue to be Ritvik and act on my behalf.” – Śrīla Prabhupāda: July 31, 1977.

   Mahesh: Excellent assessment !!! Urdhgava Prabhu. This IGNORAMUS DUMBASS Bhakta Torben is trying to REPLACE Srila Prabhupada the CURRENT BONAFIDE DIKSA GURU of ISKCON with the MANIPULATIVE Anti Ritvik GOONS who just want FREE SLAVES.

   IGNORAMUS DUMBASS Bhakta Torben has no brain to UNDERSTAND the articles we have presented:

   Srila Prabhupada IS Diksa Guru

   http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=43094#more-43094
   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
   Only Maha-Bhagavata is Diksa Guru

   http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=41422#more-41422

   http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=46518#comment-45721

   +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
   Srila Prabhupada is the Guru,Acarya and Actual Initiator in ISKCON

   http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=13706#more-13706

   ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

   Srila Prabhupada’s Disciple

   http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=43453

   Reply
3. onefallensoul says:

   17. December 2017 at 1:35 am

   Complete List Of Officially Fallen ISKCON Gurus – (42 as of Jan 2012)-This figure of 42 does not include possible individuals that the GBC may have been able to keep under wraps. Also note: Over one dozen more have been censured.

   The real tragedy in this matter is the devastated disciples. But who really cares for the thousands of them!

   1.Agrani Swami
   2. Ananda Svarupa Swami
   4. Atreya Rsi Das
   5. Bhagavan Das Goswami
   6. Bhakti Balabh Puri Goswami / Balabhadra Das
   7. Bhakti Abhaya Carana Swami (PADAMBHUJA DASA)
   8. Bhaktiprabhava Maharaj
   9. Bhaktivaidurya Madhava – formerly Rohini Kumar Swami
   10. Bhavananda Goswami
   11. Ganapati Swami
   12. Hansadutta Swami
   13. Harikesa Swami
   14. Isvara Swami (BRAZIL)
   15. Jagad Guru Swami
   16. Jagadish Goswami
   17. Jayatirtha Das (deceased)
   18. Kirtanananda Swami (deceased)
   19. KSHITI MOHAN (MEX)
   20. Mahabhagavata Swami (EL SALVADOR)
   21. Maharam Das Adhikari
   22. Narahari Swami
   23. Pancadravida Swami
   24. Paramananda Das Adhikari
   25. PARAM GATI SWAMI
   26. PARAMANANDA (GITA NAGARI)
   27. Prthu Das
   28. Radha Krsna Swami (MEX)
   29. Ramesvara Swami
   30. RAM GOVINDA DASA (MEX)
   31. Rohini Suta Das
   32. Rukmini Pati Das (BRAZIL)
   33. Rupanuga Das
   34. Satsvarupa Das Goswami
   35. Somaka Swami
   36. Suhotra Swami (deceased)
   37. UMAPATI SWAMI
   38. Vaninatha Vasu Das
   39. VEGAVAN DASA
   40. Vipramukhya Swami
   41. Prabha Visnu Swami (January 2012)
   42. Mahanidhi swami

   “318: Regulations for Commencing the Service of Diksa-guru in ISKCON
   [ISKCON Law]
   PREAMBLE

   ISKCON’s ethos of multiple diksa- and siksa-gurus serving under the auspices of a global managerial board is unique in the history of Vaisnavism, and so is the challenge it poses: the institutional management has the obligation of safeguarding devotees in their quest for spiritual guidance while simultaneously not intruding upon the necessary freedom of inspiration that is the very heart of this journey.

   There has been an ongoing discussion about how ISKCON Law should be structured to meet this challenge, with proposals ranging from rigid standardization of guruship to full dependence on a policy of caveat emptor (“consumer beware”) provisions. However, the model that seems optimal is one in which aspiring disciples are empowered through education, the vetting process for guru candidates is delegated as much as possible to local leaders, and the GBC, per Srila Prabhupada’s mandate, retains a level of oversight over all individual ISKCON leaders.”

   ” And it is a fact that Srila Prabhupada never said” Alright here is the next acarya, or here is the next eleven acaryas and they authorized gurus for the movment, for the world”. He did not do that.” (Ravindra Svarupa das, Sandiego debate, 1990)

   The GBC have said that whole of ISKCON is unprecedented ( in other words where in the hell is the TRADITION in this program??)!

   “Whereas ISKCON is an unprecedented worldwide Gaudiya Vaisnava mission which aims to incorporate many individual diksa and siksa gurus and their disciples.” (GBC Resolution 316, 2009)

   “Yes, ISKCON – and much of what we do – is without precedent in history”
   (Kripamoya Das, ISKCON UK Congregational Preaching Director, email correspondence, April 2009)

   “Generally that was the old traditional understanding in India that the guru leaves the planet and the disciple initiates and then it is that guru’s responsibility to guide his disciples. But ISKCON was something very different from that.”
   (HH Bhakti Charu Swami, Toronto meeting, July 20th, 2003)

   This is the first time in Vaisnava history that we see a functioning worldwide institution with a committee in charge. We are in uncharted waters!”(HH Trivikrama Swami, June 18th, 2007, GBC-funded website)

   “[…] the idea of this GBC is not exactly traditional […] What we were trying to do now you have to understand had never been done […] when you’re going to have a single institution with many different spiritual masters and there are many different disciples who are going to have to work together in a cooperative and unified way. Just hadn’t been done.”
   (HG Ravindra Svarupa Das, ex-GBC Chairman, Lecture, June 29th-July 3rd, 1999)

   “the traditional guru disciple relationship […] that is not the model given to us by Srila Prabhupada […] devotees serving as guru in ISKCON are not the ultimate authority as would be the case in the traditional vedic setting […] This is a subtle but significant difference from the traditional guru disciple relationship.”(Praghosa Das, GBC member, article, 1.6.09)

   GBC: “FACT: ISKCON gurus have had illicit sexual intercourse with both women and men, and possibly children as well.”
   (Where the Ritvik People Are Right, Jayadvaita Swami, 1996)

   “FACT: ISKCON gurus in good standing have fallen.
   FACT: The ISKCON GBC has supported even fallen gurus and tried to paper over their falldowns.
   FACT: ISKCON gurus have opposed, oppressed and driven out many sincere godbrothers and godsisters.
   FACT: ISKCON gurus have usurped and misused money, and diverted other ISKCON resources for their own personal prestige and sense gratification.
   FACT: ISKCON gurus have had illicit sexual intercourse with both women and men, and possibly children as well.
   FACT: Some ISKCON gurus still in good standing have had such serious personal difficulties that the GBC has been obliged to suspend them from initiating.
   FACT: Other ISKCON gurus have snapped back into line only after “narrow misses.”
   FACT: ISKCON gurus recently led a movement advocating a premature and inappropriate emphasis on rasika-bhakti.
   FACT: Some ISKCON devotees have felt obliged to accept a new guru twice or even three times over.
   In contrast, Srila Prabhupada was staunch, unfailing, always perfect in his discretion and determination. He was indisputably an exalted and empowered acarya, a pure and intimate personal associate of Krsna.
   Is it any wonder, then, that some devotees feel that only Srila Prabhupada can give them shelter and that no one else deserves the same surrender and trust?
   And when it comes to the subject of gurus, who trusts the spiritual guidance of the GBC? First the GBC gave us the “eleven pure devotees appointed by Srila Prabhupada,” each deserving the fealty of his godbrothers and destined to be your guru if you joined the Hare Krsna movement in his zone.
   Then the GBC told us the gurus were never appointed. Or, rather, members gave us at least two different stories, some GBC men declaring emphatically that Srila Prabhupada never appointed anything more than ritviks, others sure, to this day, of having been appointed “regular gurus.” The GBC itself then appointed new gurus–or did it? The word “appointed” is never used. But there are “candidates for initiating guru,” votes are taken, and those who make it through the procedures become “ISKCON-approved” or “ISKCON-authorized” gurus.
   To boost your confidence: On one hand the GBC encourages you to be initiated by a bona fide, authorized ISKCON guru and worship him like God.
   On the other, it has an elaborate system of laws to invoke from time to time when your ISKCON-authorized guru falls down.
   One might perhaps be forgiven for thinking that for all the laws and resolutions the role of guru is still a perplexity even for the GBC.” (Where the Ritvik People are Right – H.H. Jayadvaita Swami)

   After the time of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, those faithful to Him kept apart from nondevotees, to avoid contamination. Seeing this, the personality of Kali sent his representatives in disguise to pollute the Vaisnava sampradaya. Posing as Vaisnavas, they spread their wicked doctrines, and appeared so intelligent and devoted that only pure devotees could detect their real identity. Most devotees — not only the most neophyte — were enchanted by their tricks. In this way Kali’s agents expertly introduced karma, jnana, and anyabhilasa in the Vaisnava sampradaya and caused suddha-bhakti to vanish from the world.”
   Sajjana Tosani 18.2.13-14 (1915); by Siddhanta Sarasvati

   Aksayananda: I was recently told by one devotee that the acarya does not have to be a pure devotee.
   Prabhupada: What?
   Aksayananda: That the acarya does not have to be a pure devotee.
   Prabhupada: Who is that rascal?
   Aksayananda: Well, he said it. Who said it?
   Prabhupada: Who said? Who is that rascal? The acarya does not require to be a pure devotee?
   Prabhupada: So who is that rascal? I want to know who has said.
   Aksayananda: Nitai. Nitai dasa.
   Prabhupada: Oh, our Nitai? Oh.
   Prabhupada: He manufactured his idea. Therefore he’s a rascal. Therefore he’s a rascal. Nitai has become an authority?
   Aksayananda: No, actually he said that he thought…
   Prabhupada: He thought something rascaldom, and he is expressing that. Therefore he is more rascal. These things are going on. As soon as he reads some books, he becomes an acarya, whatever rascal he may be. MW Vrndavan 12/10/1975

   “Whenever an advanced devotee is insulted, for one man’s fault the entire town or place is devastated – everyone in connection with him will suffer.” Caitanya-caritamrta Antya-lila 3.164

   What will happen when I am not here, shall everything be spoiled by GBC? Srila Prabhupada letter to Hansaduta 4/11/1972 https://prabhupadabooks.com/letters/sydney/april/11/1972/hamsaduta

   Conclusion: Follow the order, not tradition.

   Reply
4. Mahesh Raja says:

   17. December 2017 at 1:46 pm

   Note: the pastimes (lila) of IGNORANT DUMBASS Bhakta Torben’s diksa gurus:

   —– Forwarded message —–
   From:xxxxxxx
   To:xxxxxxxxxx
   Sent: Tuesday, 23 September 2008, 13:38:12 BST
   Subject: Howard Resnic

   Dear Mahesh Prabhu,

   Please accept my humble obeisances.

   All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

   Thank you for all the quotes & for your continued encouragement. I am feeling a little better as the effects of my own offences subside, by Prabhupada’s Divine Grace.

   I recieved a message from Atmeyatma Dasa who has done a video presentation in defence of Prabhupada against the speculations of Hrdayanada. To be frank I find the constant debate with the bogus gurus to be a bit pointless since we already know that they are nothing but dogs, what is the point in arguing with them? These feelings of frustration inspired me to let Atmeyatma Dasa know a few of the things that I’d witnessed in India in 1991. Unfortunately he seems to find it a bit hard to believe.

   Below is a recollection of my memories of Hrdayananda Howard resnic. I have other memories to relate concerning Tamal & Jayapataka amongst others, but I’m taking my time to write them all down.

   I saw Howard Resnic (Hridayaynanda dasa “Goswami”) snorting cocaine & having sex on the roof of the long building at Mayapura Chandrodaya Mandir in 1991, just before the Gaura Purnima Festival.

   The day I saw Resnic having sex, I was warned by my roomates not to go up to the roof because there was some spaced out karmi up there. I was accustomed to chanting my rounds on the roof & didn’t want to let that stop me. When I got up there there were little poly bags littering the place & short straws. I didn’t understand at the time but it looked like the remains of a cocaine party.

   At the far eastern end of the rooftop a short fat man was lying on a sun lounger, facing east, having his feet massaged by a woman dressed in a sari.

   If you have ever been up on the roof of the “long building” guest house at Sri Mayapura Dhama Chandrodaya Mandir, you will know that there are two staircases that lead to the roof. In 1991 a one legged sannyasi had his living quarters towards the western stairway & an old man who was simply known as Dadu had his quarters in the vicinity of the stairs situated towards the eastern end of the building.

   There was a considerable distance of space between the stairways and the ends of the building, which was mostly occupied by wires stretched between steel poles to act as washing lines.

   The previous night the residents of the guest house had their sleep disturbed because there had been a lot of noise coming from the roof, mostly loud talking & laughter, also erratic beating of the mrdanga without chanting. At one stage there was some kirtan, but it didn’t last long, it was interupted by laughter. To be frank it sounded like a bunch of “devotees” were getting drunk.

   As I mentioned previously, when I arrived on the roof that morning, to chant my japa as usual, the first thing that I noticed were the little poly bags with snap fastenings, of the type that are sometimes used to distribute prasadam, that were littering the place. Also short, transparent, green straws, the same as those given out with drinks on aeroplanes, but cut down to approximately 3 inches in length. Some of the polybags had been ripped open & most of them had more or less of a residue of white powder in them.

   I was surprised to find such a mess, as devotees are usually so tidy & especially careful about cleaning up the remnants of prasadam. At first I thought that the white powder must be some form of sugar based prasadam. But I was puzzled as to what the straws were for. It should have been obvious, but I had been conditioned to believe that to take note of wrongful behaviour on the part of my senior devotees was an offence that would lead to falldown.

   As a total neophyte, I took everyone to be my senior, so I was loathe to think the worst in any situation. However, what else could it have been but drugs? Right in front of me as I reached the top of the stairs, on the raised ledge that contains the rooftop, there was a poly bag containing substantial residue of white powder & a short green straw lying next to it. There was also a patch of powder stuck to the rough concrete surface of the ledge.

   The weather was very still & had been all night, the evidence of last night’s party had hardly been disturbed at all by the wind.

   The next thing that I noticed was the man on the sunlounger at the farthest easterly end of the rooftop, having his feet massaged by an attractive white female who was wearing a sari.

   I remember thinking that I wouldn’t mind a bit of that sort of treatment myself. I did feel distinctly jealous, so I tried not to look at them & got on with my chanting. I can’t remember how long I was chanting but it was long enough for the warmth of the morning sun to increase considerably, as the white residues in the bags & on the ledge slowly melted into clear liquid, in a way that no sugar based substance, that I know of, would do. Perhaps you don’t know that cocaine turns to clear liquid above a certain heat, I didn’t at the time, so I was puzzled as to what it was. The clue was with the straws, & with the loud laughter of the previous night, but I didn’t want to believe that devotees could fall down like that. I had already blocked out the memory of seeing Tamal sniff coke in Bombay. The mental pressure of forcing myself to ignore the horrible truth sparked a feeling of depression instantly. With a feeling of suppressed anger, I lost interest in what I was chanting & started to glance towards the easterly end of the rooftop.

   The man on the sun lounger was talking to his female servant sporadically, then he reached to a small table on his left, & although I couldn’t see directly, he appeared to pick up a small poly bag & empty it onto the top of his chest, then he offered a straw to the woman who exclaimed “What are you trying to do kill me?!” He muttered something & it looked as if she was letting him know of my presence some distance off, as she kept glancing at me nervously, I pretended as much as possible to be ignoring them, he didn’t bother to look around to see me. He continually urged her & eventually she nervously complied in taking the straw. It looked as if she sniffed something off his chest, then he took the straw & sniffed the remainder, which might sound like a physical impossibility, but actually it is fairly common practice for heavy cocaine users to lie there sniffing cocaine off their own chest.

   He then gave her a command which I will not repeat in full, but just so as there isn’t any doubt, he said “F— me!” & it was in the sense of a command & not as a spontaneous exclamation.

   She looked shocked & reminded him that they were not alone. He must have been very heavily intoxicated because he didn’t even care to look around. He continually urged her & eventually, without undressing she climbed on top of him & crouched down.

   Seconds later she was running across the rooftop weeping, she ran passed me leaving a trail of stinking fluid.

   As she ran past me to the entrance of the stairway she cowered away from me in fear for some reason, although I made no movements. There was a sizeable blot of bodily fluid left behind her, just a little to the right, about three feet from where I was standing, opposite the entrance to the stairway. The unmistakable smell of semen was repulsively strong & fresh.

   More or less in shock, I just stood there in disgust, still chanting my rounds & really not knowing what to make of all this. I was so stunned that I didn’t notice Resnic approaching me a couple of minutes later. As I heard his footsteps approach I turned with what must have been an obvious look of hatred on my face so much so that he started backwards in fear. The smell of semen on him was overwhelming. He was naked apart from a tiny black bathing thong & a pair of round framed, dark tinted spectacles.

   I stared hard at him,as he made to pass me by, to the stairway, like you would if you were trying to memorise the appearance of a criminal, which is just what I was doing. He kept his distance, moving with even greater fear of me than the woman had, but he stopped & turned around in front of the doors to the stairway & began to nervously splutter “Who, who , who’s disciple are you?!” He was pointing his index finger at me from his right hand, brought up to his shoulder & prodding the air in my direction. I didn’t know what to say, I wasn’t initiated, so I said nothing, but I took the opportunity of looking hard at him through the tinted lenses of his glasses to the hard, “dead” eyes within the deep etched lines around their sockets. He carried on spluttering at me things that I didn’t understand, something about him being Vishnu Tattva, so I’d better watch it because Prabhupada had told him that. He told me to watch it a couple more times then took
   his stinking little body down the stairs. I had no idea who he was or what he was talking about. He had all the bearing of a criminal & that is how I viewed him, a seriously insane criminal.

   I stayed where I was & carried on chanting. After a short while an Indian brahmacari arrived & swept up the poly bags & straws & started mopping the semen stains. He stared at me with a furrowed brow as he worked. A little later Another Indian brahmacari came & told me to clear off. I complied.

   Later that day I was informed by my roomates that some crazy woman had been found doing a hand stand in the public shower room of the guest house, because she’d had illicit sex & was trying to wash the semen out of her body. She was hysterical & obviously on drugs. The worst of it was that they said that she was in such a state that the medical centre had procured “morning after” contraceptive pills for her to use. They also mentioned that it was rumoured to be a well known sannyasi who had sex with her, but I couldn’t believe that it could have been the same people that I had witnessed on the roof. I couldn’t believe that the thuggish little cocaine addict that I had seen on the roof could possibly be a sannyasi.

   I can’t remember if it was the same day in the afternoon, or the following morning that Resnic was reeling around beside the gardens in front of the long building in a large straw cowboy hat & bathing thong. I think it was the following morning or it might even have been a day or two later.

   Anyway I had no idea who he was until some other “sanyasis” who were standing at the front of the temple building started shouting “Hridayananda! Get dressed!”. He shouted back “Who’s Hridayananda? That’s Krishna! I’m Resnic the philosophy guy!” (refering to his mundane philosophy book “Intellectual Animalism”). He took off his hat to reveal a large bag of white powder which he began to toss in the air & catch again then he shouted at the sanyasis “Hey! Tell Jayapataka I’ve got his breakfast here!” refering to what must have been a large bag of drugs. He was staggering & reeling looking at the sky. He dropped the bag & something spilled out “Oh shit” he murmured then the sanyasis walked over to take charge of him.

   Reply
5. Mahatma das says:

   17. December 2017 at 5:08 pm

   Bh. Torben says that Srila Prabhupada ” left his mortal frame in 1977″.
   According to Srila Prabhupada bh. Torben is bewildered and in darkness:

   Jyotirmayi: They said it is by the acintya power of God.
   Prabhupada: These, these rascals, they thought that “Jesus had a material body. Let us kill him.” So Jesus Christ bewildered them more, to remain rascal, that they will continue to think that Jesus had a material body.
   Jyotirmayi: Bewildered them?
   Yogesvara: Yes, he bewildered them more by saying: “All right, go on thinking like that.”
   Prabhupada: That is their punishment. They remain always in darkness that Jesus had a material body.
   (Conv. Paris. June 15,1974).

   Just like Vrindavana Dhama, the body of the pure devotee is made of bliss, knowledge and eternity( sat cid ananda), although a neophyte may not fully appreciate this: thus he sees the deity as made of stone and takes the spiritual master to be an ordinary mortal.

   arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matir vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhir
   viṣṇor vā vaiṣṇavānāṁ kali-mala-mathane pāda-tīrthe ‘mbu-buddhiḥ
   śrī-viṣṇor nāmni mantre sakala-kaluṣa-he śabda-sāmānya-buddhir
   viṣṇau sarveśvareśe tad-itara-sama-dhīr yasya vā nārakī saḥ

   “One who thinks the Deity in the temple to be made of wood or stone, who thinks of the spiritual master in the disciplic succession as an ordinary man, who thinks the Vaiṣṇava in the Acyuta-gotra to belong to a certain caste or creed or who thinks of caraṇāmṛta or Ganges water as ordinary water is taken to be a resident of hell.” (Padma Purāṇa)

   Reply
6. Mahesh Raja says:

   17. December 2017 at 6:23 pm

   Note: IGNORANT ENVIOUS DUMBASS Bhakta Torben has no brains to UNDERSTAND the philosophy hence he wants to create mischief of replacing Srila Prabhupada by stating, Srila Prabhupada ” left his mortal frame in 1977″. Here are just a few quotes on “physical” to demolish his nonsense Anti Ritvik propaganda:

   750302BA.ATL Lectures
   So he wanted this, and he is not… It is not that he is dead and gone. That is not spiritual understanding. Even ordinary living being, he does not die. Na hanyate hanyamane sarire. And what to speak of such exalted, authorized personality like Bhaktisiddhanta. He is seeing. I never feel that I am alone. Of course, when I came to your country without any friend, without any means… Practically, just like a vagabond I came. But I had full faith that “My Guru Maharaja is with me.” I never lost this faith, and that is fact. There are two words, vani and vapuh. Vani means words, and vapuh means this physical body. SO VANI IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE VAPUH. VAPUH WILL BE FINISHED. THIS IS MATERIAL BODY. IT WILL BE FINISHED. THAT IS THE NATURE. BUT IF WE KEEP TO THE VANI, TO THE WORDS OF SPIRITUAL MASTER, THEN WE REMAIN VERY FIXED UP. It doesn’t matter. Just like Bhagavad-gita. It was spoken five thousand years ago. But if you keep to the words of Krsna, then it is always fresh and guiding. Not that because Arjuna personally listened to Krsna about the instruction of Bhagavad-gita, therefore he knew it. That is not the fact. If you accept Bhagavad-gita as it is, then you should know that Krsna is present before you in His words in the Bhagavad-gita. This is called spiritual realization. It is not mundane historical incidences. If we keep…

   evam parampara-praptam
   imam rajarsayo viduh
   sa kaleneha (mahata)
   yogo nastah parantapa

   If you don’t keep in touch with the original link, then it will be lost. And if you keep touch with the original link, then you are directly hearing Krsna. SIMILARLY, KRSNA AND KRSNA’S REPRESENTATIVE, SPIRITUAL MASTER, IF YOU KEEP ALWAYS INTACT, IN LINK WITH THE WORDS AND INSTRUCTION OF THE SUPERIOR AUTHORITIES, THEN YOU ARE ALWAYS FRESH. THIS IS SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING.

   SB 3.31.48 P Lord Kapila’ s Instructions on the Movements of the Living Entities
   …. it is described here that ONE HAS TO ASSOCIATE WITH LIBERATED PERSONS NOT DIRECTLY, PHYSICALLY, BUT BY UNDERSTANDING, THROUGH PHILOSOPHY AND LOGIC, THE PROBLEMS OF LIFE.

   710818SB.LON Lectures
   Prabhupada: JUST FOLLOW HIS ORDER. SPIRITUAL MASTER IS ALONG WITH YOU BY HIS WORDS. Just like my spiritual master is not physically present, but I am associating with him by his words.

   67-10-03.Nan Letter: Nandarani, Krsna Devi, Subala, Uddhava
   Dayananda, Nandarani and Uddhava first went to L.A. to open this branch & in the absence of Dayananda, Subala and Krishna devi have come to help. Whenever there is new branch of our society for Krishna Consciousness I become very very happy, & my blessings in heart and soul are with you. I went to your country for spreading this information of Krishna Consciousness & you are helping me in my mission ALTHOUGH I AM NOT PHYSICALLY PRESENT THERE BUT SPIRITUALLY I AM ALWAYS WITH YOU.

   69-08-17. Letter: Govinda
   Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated August 9th, 1969. In the meantime I have sent one tape to Gaurasundara. Perhaps you might have received it, and if it is all right, then I can send you many other tapes, similarly stereoed. From the description of your letter I understand that Hawaii is good field for our preaching work. The hippies are actually immediate candidates for our Krishna Consciousness. We pray to Caitanya Mahaprabhu, “My dear Lord, Your Incarnation is to claim the most fallen souls.” So in this age of Kali almost everyone is dangerously fallen, and the hippies appear to be still more greater fallen. Besides that, from their behavior it appears they like this movement. This is a very good sign. Your description of that Yogi Sai, that is also little hopeful. He is reading Bhagavad-gita and quoting some lines. So you are very intelligent; you can tackle these people very nicely, assisted by your good husband and the other boys and girls. YOU WRITE THAT YOU HAVE DESIRE TO AVAIL OF MY ASSOCIATION AGAIN, BUT WHY DO YOU FORGET THAT YOU ARE ALWAYS IN ASSOCIATION WITH ME? WHEN YOU ARE HELPING MY MISSIONARY ACTIVITIES I AM ALWAYS THINKING OF YOU AND YOU ARE ALWAYS THINKING OF ME. THAT IS REAL ASSOCIATION. Just like I always think of my Guru Maharaja every moment, although He is not physically present, and because I am trying to serve Him to my best capacity, I am sure He is helping me by His spiritual blessings. So there are two kinds of association: physical and preceptorial. Physical association is not so important as preceptorial association.

   750721mw.sf Conversations
   Narayana: So those disciples who don’t have opportunity to see you or speak with you…
   Prabhupada: That he was speaking, vani and vapuh. Even if you don’t see his body, you take his word, vani.
   Narayana: But how do they know they’re pleasing you, Srila Prabhupada?
   Prabhupada: If you actually follow the words of guru, that means he is pleased. And if you do not follow, how he can be pleased?
   Sudama: Not only that, but your mercy is spread everywhere, and if we take advantage, you told us once, then we will feel the result.
   Prabhupada: Yes.
   Jayadvaita: And if we have faith in what the guru says, then automatically we’ll do that.
   Prabhupada: Yes. My Guru Maharaja passed in 1936, and I started this movement in 1965, thirty years after. Then? I am getting the mercy of guru. THIS IS VANI. EVEN THE GURU IS NOT PHYSICALLY PRESENT, IF YOU FOLLOW THE VANI, THEN YOU ARE GETTING HELP.
   Sudama: So there’s no question of ever separation as long as the disciple follows the instruction of guru.
   Prabhupada: No. Cakhu-dan dilo jei… What is that, next one?
   Sudama: Cakhu-dan dilo jei, janme janme prabhu sei.
   Prabhupada: JANME JANME PRABHU SEI. SO WHERE THERE IS SEPARATION? WHO HAS OPENED YOUR EYES, HE IS BIRTH AFTER BIRTH YOUR PRABHU.

   770714r2.vrn Conversations
   Prabhupada: I SHALL REMAIN YOUR PERSONAL GUIDANCE, PHYSICALLY PRESENT OR NOT PHYSICALLY, AS I AM GETTING PERSONAL GUIDANCE FROM MY GURU MAHARAJA.

   690113LE.LA Lectures
   ” Similarly, arcye sila-dhir gurusu na… Gurusu means those who are acaryas, to accept their body as ordinary man’s body, this is denied in the sastras. SO ALTHOUGH A PHYSICAL BODY IS NOT PRESENT, THE VIBRATION SHOULD BE ACCEPTED AS THE PRESENCE OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER, VIBRATION. WHAT WE HAVE HEARD FROM THE SPIRITUAL MASTER, THAT IS LIVING.

   72-12-14. Letter: Tusta Krsna
   Next you ask if I am present in my picture and form? YES. IN FORM AS WELL AS IN TEACHINGS. TO CARRY OUT THE TEACHINGS OF GURU IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN TO WORSHIP THE FORM, BUT NONE OF THEM SHOULD BE NEGLECTED. FORM IS CALLED VAPU AND TEACHINGS IS CALLED VANI. BOTH SHOULD BE WORSHIPED. VANI IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN VAPU

   Adi 1.35 The Spiritual Masters
   The service of the spiritual master is essential. If there is no chance to serve the spiritual master directly, a devotee should serve him by remembering his instructions. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SPIRITUAL MASTER’S INSTRUCTIONS AND THE SPIRITUAL MASTER HIMSELF. IN HIS ABSENCE, THEREFORE, HIS WORDS OF DIRECTION SHOULD BE THE PRIDE OF THE DISCIPLE.

   73-12-25.Letter: Gurukrpa , Yasodanandana
   Whatever is to be learned of the teachings of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura can be learned from our books. THERE IS NO NEED WHATSOEVER FOR ANY OUTSIDE INSTRUCTION.

   74-11-22. Letter: Bahurupa
   I am pleased to hear that you are chanting 16 rounds daily and reading my books regularly and following the four rules. IN MY BOOKS THE PHILOSOPHY OF KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS IS EXPLAINED FULLY SO IF THERE IS ANYTHING WHICH YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND, THEN YOU SIMPLY HAVE TO READ AGAIN AND AGAIN. BY READING DAILY THE KNOWLEDGE WILL BE REVEALED TO YOU AND BY THIS PROCESS YOUR SPIRITUAL LIFE WILL DEVELOP.

   75-09-18. Letter: Babhru, Satyaki
   PLEASE CONTINUE READING MY BOOKS SERIOUSLY AND EVERYTHING WILL BE REVEALED TO YOU.

   74-11-22. Letter: Hugo Salemon
   So far your worship of Lord Jagannatha in your home and your becoming initiated. It is alright provided you have the recommendation of the temple president. I am very glad to see that such a young boy as yourself you are taking serious interest in this Krishna Consciousness Movement. Please continue in this way Our process is something universal. It cannot be checked by any means. Anyone in any place, in any country can chant Hare Krishna. If it is possible to go to the temple, then take advantage of the temple. A temple is a place where by one is given the opportunity to render direct devotional service to the Supreme Lord Sri Krishna. IN CONJUNCTION WITH THIS YOU SHOULD ALWAYS READ MY BOOKS DAILY AND ALL YOUR QUESTIONS WILL BE ANSWERED AND YOU WILL HAVE A FIRM BASIS OF KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS. IN THIS WAY YOUR LIFE WILL BE PERFECT.

   75-11-15. Letter: Janajanmadhih
   So, if you are strong enough to preach Krsna consciousness there, that is very good; that as long as you chant your 16 rounds and follow the four regulative principles, then you will get the strength. THE PROCESS IS THAT YOU SHOULD MEMORIZE THE PURPORTS OF MY BOOKS AND THEN SPEAK THEM IN YOUR OWN WORDS. DO NOT ADULTERATE OR CHANGE ANYTHING. THEN YOU WILL BE THE PERFECT PREACHER. You should also distribute our books as far as possible. If you do this sincerely, then you will be successful.

   Note:If one thinks that there are many pseudo devotees or nondevotees in the Krsna Consciousness Society, one can keep direct company with the spiritual master,

   Madhya 19.157 Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu Instructs Srila Rupa Gosvami
   IF ONE THINKS THAT THERE ARE MANY PSEUDO DEVOTEES OR NONDEVOTEES IN THE KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS SOCIETY, ONE CAN KEEP DIRECT COMPANY WITH THE SPIRITUAL MASTER, and if there is any doubt, one should consult the spiritual master. However, unless one follows the spiritual master’s instructions and the regulative principles governing chanting and hearing the holy name of the Lord, one cannot become a pure devotee. By one’s mental concoctions, one falls down. By associating with nondevotees, one breaks the regulative principles and is thereby lost. In the Upadesamrta of Srila Rupa Gosvami, it is said:

   atyaharah prayasas ca
   prajalpo niyamagrahah
   jana-sangas ca laulyam ca
   sadbhir bhaktir vinasyati

   “One’s devotional service is spoiled when he becomes too entangled in the following six activities: (1) eating more than necessary or collecting more funds than required, (2) overendeavoring for mundane things that are very difficult to attain, (3) talking unnecessarily about mundane subject matters, (4) practicing the scriptural rules and regulations only for the sake of following them and not for the sake of spiritual advancement, or rejecting the rules and regulations of the scriptures and working independently or whimsically, (5) associating with worldly-minded persons who are not interested in Krsna consciousness, and (6) being greedy for mundane achievements.”
   modes of nature. Karanam guna-sangah asya sad-asad-janma-yonisu.

   Note: you can DIRECTLY associate with Srila Prabhupada by reading his books:
   721020ND.VRN Lectures
   But in this life, if we develop Krsna consciousness by association of devotees… As Narottama dasa Thakura has sung, tandera carana-sevi-bhakta-sane vasa. One’s aim of life should be to serve the acaryas. Acarya upasanam. So our acarya in the Gaudiya Vaisnava Sampradaya, the sri-rupa sanatana bhatta-raghunatha, sri-jiva gopala-bhatta dasa-raghunatha, the Six Gosvamins, and if we associate with them… THIS BOOK, NECTAR OF DEVOTION, BHAKTI-RASAMRTA-SINDHU, IF YOU READ REGULARLY, TRY TO UNDERSTAND, THIS MEANS YOU ARE ASSOCIATING WITH SRILA RUPA GOSVAMI DIRECTLY. AND IF YOU ACT ACCORDINGLY, THEN YOU ARE SERVING THEIR LOTUS FEET. TANDERA CARANA-SEVI-BHAKTA-SANE VASA.

   Reply
7. onefallensoul says:

   18. December 2017 at 1:25 am

   NOD chpt. 9 Rendering service to the Lord

   “In this connection, there is a statement in the Fourth Canto of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, wherein King Pṛthu says to his subjects: “My dear citizens, please note that the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Hari, is actually the deliverer of all fallen conditioned souls. No demigod can perform this act of delivering the conditioned souls, because the demigods themselves are conditioned. A conditioned soul cannot deliver another conditioned soul. Only Kṛṣṇa or His bona fide representative can deliver him.”

   ALL of the Iskcon gurus are conditioned souls, (just look at the list of fallen gurus) therefore they CAN NOT deliver anyone, not Bhakta Torben or even themselves.

   Reply
8. Mahesh Raja says:

   18. December 2017 at 12:38 pm

   onefallensoul: ALL of the Iskcon gurus are conditioned souls, (just look at the list of fallen gurus) therefore they CAN NOT deliver anyone, not Bhakta Torben or even themselves.

   Mahesh: the IGNORANT DUMBASS Bhakta Torben is ENVIOUS of Srila Prabhupada. Hence, his AntI Ritvik stance. These types are SAHAJIYA they consider themselves liberated.

   72-06-15. Letter: Himavati
   Don’t try to do anything artificially. THAT IS SAHAJIYA, WHICH MEANS A CLASS OF MEN THAT TAKE EVERYTHING VERY CHEAP.

   Note: HOW these SHAJIYAS can deliver others if they THEMSELVES are ALSO not capable to go back to Godhead in one life????? Even Lord Brahma such an advanced soul is in the material world and these FOOLS they consider themselves liberated on equal level of Srila Prabhupada!!!
   SB 3.15.24 P Description of the Kingdom of God
   IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO GO BACK TO GODHEAD IN ONE LIFE, BUT IN THE HUMAN FORM ONE SHOULD AT LEAST UNDERSTAND THE GOAL OF LIFE AND BEGIN KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS. It is said that the human form is a great boon because it is the most suitable boat for crossing over the nescience ocean. The spiritual master is considered to be the most able captain in that boat, and the information from the scriptures is the favorable wind for floating over the ocean of nescience. The human being who does not take advantage of all these facilities in this life is committing suicide. Therefore one who does not begin Krsna consciousness in the human form of life loses his life to the influence of the illusory energy. Brahma regrets the situation of such a human being.

   Reply
9. Vadiraja acbsp says:

   18. December 2017 at 10:13 pm

   WHAT ENVIOUS DUMB ASS DISTORBEN(CE)is not telling you,is who is his living guru. He is initiated by who knows who is Iskcon. He is nothing but a “fruit from a poisonous tree”. I have countess times defeated his dumb ass before but he goes on hiding for months,and latter he sticks his pea brain again in a different venue. Sorry for the poetry.

   Reply
10. Mahesh Raja says:

    19. December 2017 at 1:06 pm

    The situation in ISKCON is: the bogus CONDITIONED soul “gurus” are losing ground with convincing SERIOUS devotees in their camp so they have SENTIMENTAL Hindus who have ZERO brains to read and UNDERSTAND Srila Prabhupada’s books and POOR East Europeans stock as disciples(SLAVES) who they USE these to collect MONEY on streets for their LUXURY lifestyle. SENTIMENTAL Hindus are HOOKED-UP so they can SCREW money from their RICH Hindus folks. The POOR the East Europeans stock are USED on street MONEY SCREWING programs in the West. Then—- there is the Hindus FROM India who get sent to USA and UK to make money and maintain Temples they are seeking UK student University places and USA Green Cards for PERMANENT RESIDENCY.

    IGNORANT ENVIOUS DUMB ASS Bhakta Torben looks like getting his PAY-CUT from the ISKCON coffers for his Anti Ritvik PROPAGANDA to MAINTAIN the SLAVERY structure:

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Bhaktivedanta Manor Accounts SALARIES
    http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=47869

    http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=38907#comment-24810

    SALARIES

    Financial statements for the year ended 31 December 2015

    Bhaktivedanta Manor (UK)

    259649 –
    INTERNATIONAL SOCIETY FOR KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS LIMITED

    http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Showcharity/RegisterOfCharities/DocumentList.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=259649&SubsidiaryNumber=0&DocType=AccountList
    ==================================================================
    http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Accounts/Ends49/0000259649_AC_20151231_E_C.pdf
    ==================================================================

    Wages and Salaries: £1,658,355
    Employees: 172
    No employee received emoluments in excess off £60,000
    Does not exactly say who or how many got paid up to £60,000.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    SALARIES

    Soho St Temple – London(UK)
    1132794 –
    INTERNATIONAL SOCIETY FOR KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS LONDON

    Accounts for 31 Dec 2015:
    received 07 Oct 2016

    Annual Return for 31 Dec 2015:
    received 07 Oct 2016

    http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Showcharity/RegisterOfCharities/CharityWithPartB.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=1132794&SubsidiaryNumber=0

    =======================================================

    http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Accounts/Ends94/0001132794_AC_20151231_E_C.pdf

    =======================================================

    Wages and Salaries: £443,967
    Employees: 45
    No employee received emoluments in excess off £60,000
    Does not exactly say who or how many got paid up to £60,000.
    Wages and salaries £443,967

    http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/01-08/editorials2459.htm

    http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=41633

    Reply
11. Sudarsana Das Vanacari says:

    19. December 2017 at 3:06 pm

    For the intelligent, sincere souls there is NO confusion because they can easily realize the truth by following our only present link, sole Acharya and Diksa Guru Srila Prabhupada. Retards and rascals like Turban who are just less-intelligent lapdogs of poisoners and pathological liars shouldn’t be given any oxygen on this forum as it just wastes everyone’s time and energy.

    The Ritvik system was/is clearly given by Srila Prabhupada (thus being the unquestionable will of The Supreme Lord Sri Krishna and the Parampara) so nonsense baited terms such as “Ritvik confusion” and “Ritvik Dogma” are anomalies which are highly misleading offences to His Divine Grace and The Supreme Lord Himself.

    Turban will always be a complete fool and always ”confused” as are the many, who worship deviant child molesters, pathological liars, poisoners of Srila Prabhupada and their ”faithful” lackeys.

    Reply
12. Amar Puri says:

    19. December 2017 at 8:22 pm

    Dear Readers,

    People like Turban who is allowed to post INCOMPLETE Srila Prabhupada’s messages on the like minded people web site of Sun Sampardaya are against the instructions of Srila Prabhupada, the sole Acharya and Diksa Guru of World Wide ISKCON which needs to be EXPOSED.

    Such writings are certainly MISLEADING and are considered very very very OFFENCES to Srila Prabhupada’s VANI as well as Lord Chaitanya world wide movement.

    Any serious and sincere follower of Srila Prabhupada is advised to please beware of such misleading writings on the Sun Sampardaya web site.

    Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.

    OM TAT SAT.

    Reply
13. Balaram das says:

    20. December 2017 at 12:21 am

    Hare Krsna Sudarsana prabhu, agree 100% as you state>>>

    “The Ritvik system was/is clearly given by Srila Prabhupada (thus being the unquestionable will of The Supreme Lord Sri Krishna and the Parampara) so nonsense baited terms such as “Ritvik confusion” and “Ritvik Dogma” are anomalies which are highly misleading offenses to His Divine Grace and The Supreme Lord Himself.”

    IMHO there is no need to be quoting this Torben clown’s offensive outbursts on the Prabhupada-anugas Forum. We know where he and his ilk are coming from, so why even recognize his rantings by giving him ‘airtime’! Just my 2 cents worth.

    Also many thanks to One Fallen Soul prabhu for quoting the GBC Preamble to
    “318: Regulations for Commencing the Service of Diksa-guru in ISKCON. I have also used this against them a few times.

    These self invested fools dare to say that the unalloyed pure devotee Uttama Adhikari Mahatma, Srila Prabhupada is not authorized to make an adjustment to the process of initial duties for diksa initiation in his own society (Founder & Acarya), however for their own PAD, they openly declare that even as conditioned souls, they have the ‘right’ to invent their own system which has no Vedic precedent…
    “ISKCON’s ethos of multiple diksa- and siksa-gurus serving under the auspices of a global managerial board is unique in the history of Vaisnavism, and so is the challenge it poses”.

    In devotional service the ‘challenge’ is to FOLLOW the instructions of Guru, Sadhu & Sastra, not to invent your own concocted system!

    Yhs,
    Balaram das.

    Reply
14. Mahesh Raja says:

    20. December 2017 at 1:00 pm

    Balaram das: IMHO there is no need to be quoting this Torben clown’s offensive outbursts on the Prabhupada-anugas Forum. We know where he and his ilk are coming from, so why even recognize his rantings by giving him ‘airtime’! Just my 2 cents worth.

    Mahesh: on the positive note – the Anti Ritvik goon Torben has been exposed AND he has unwittingly helped expose on this forum the money screwing and slavery of the bogus conditioned soul ISKCON gurus and their structure. With reference to the context if one checks this DUMB ASS Bhakta Torben on internet it will lead to this site and show how these Anti Ritvik CROOKS are exposed:

    730503mw.la Conversations
    Prabhupada: No, it is Sanskrit. And in Bengal it is called vane asiya raja.(?) “In the forest a jackal has become king.” They are like that. Nila-varna-srigalavat.(?) When… There is big story about this jackal. I will tell you some. A jackal came in the village and he fell in the tub where, what is called, the water? No, no. The water man keeps the water for dipping, making
    little bluish. For coloring. That blue, blue. So the washerman kept the dye water in a big tub, and the jackal fell in it. So jackal fell in it; he became blue, all blue. So he fled away, and all the animals said, “What is this animal? What is the animal? What is that animal? Oh?” All, even lion became surprised. “We have not seen this.” “So who are you, sir?” “I am sent by God to rule over you.” “Oh?” So they began to worship him as God, as leader. Then one day other jackals, they were crying, “Wa, wa,” but the jackals cannot stop. If others jackals cry, the jackal cannot stop. So he also began to “Wa, wa.” Oh, then, they, oh, this rascal is a jackal. Yavat kincin na bhasate. That these rascals are jackals. Now they are talking nonsense. We can detect that “Here is a jackal.” SO WE HAVE TO EXPOSE THEM. THEY ARE NOT LEADER; THEY ARE JACKALS. SO JACKALS CANNOT ANYMORE RULE OVER. THAT SHOULD BE OUR PROPAGANDA. NOT ONLY SCIENTIFIC, ALL POLITICAL THINGS, SOCIAL THINGS, EVERYTHING. They should be all kicked out. They should be replaced by Krsna consciousness. Then people will be happy. This should be our program. Our, this propaganda means to make people happy. It is not a business, to make business and take some money. And so many jackals have been arrested and resigned in your… You know that? Many jackals have been obliged to resign their post in the government.
    Brahmananda: That is Watergate affair.

    721016SB.VRN Lectures
    SO WHEN YOU BECOME ACTUALLY PREACHER OF GOD CONSCIOUSNESS, YOU CANNOT MAKE ANY COMPROMISE. YOU MUST CALL THE SPADE A SPADE. Just like Prahlada Maharaja. Prahlada Maharaja is one of the mahajanas. Out of the twelve mahajanas, he’s one of them. Because he was very bold. He was not afraid of his demonic father. He chastised him in so many ways. But he was never afraid. So just like our people are being persecuted in Australia. You know? They have been put into jail because they are preaching Hare Krsna. So this is not very easy thing, easy-going. My Guru Maharaja, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja, he did not like that his disciples would be easy-going, cheap Vaisnava.

    Note: ALTHOUGH SOMETIMES THE TRUTH IS UNPALATABLE, ONE SHOULD NOT REFRAIN FROM SPEAKING IT
    Bg 10.4-5 P The Opulence of the Absolute
    Asammoha, freedom from doubt and delusion, can be achieved when one is not hesitant and when he understands the transcendental philosophy. Slowly but surely he becomes free from bewilderment. Nothing should be accepted blindly; everything should be accepted with care and with caution. Ksama, forgiveness, should be practiced, and one should excuse the minor offenses of others. Satyam, truthfulness, means that facts should be presented as they are for the benefit of others. Facts should not be misrepresented. According to social conventions, it is said that one can speak the truth only when it is palatable to others. But that is not truthfulness. THE TRUTH SHOULD BE SPOKEN IN A STRAIGHT AND FORWARD WAY, SO THAT OTHERS WILL UNDERSTAND ACTUALLY WHAT THE FACTS ARE. IF A MAN IS A THIEF AND IF PEOPLE ARE WARNED THAT HE IS A THIEF, THAT IS TRUTH. ALTHOUGH SOMETIMES THE TRUTH IS UNPALATABLE, ONE SHOULD NOT REFRAIN FROM SPEAKING IT. Truthfulness demands that the facts be presented as they are for the benefit of others. That is the definition of truth.

    Reply
15. Mahesh Raja says:

    20. December 2017 at 9:12 pm

    Note: Balaram Prabhu, Sudarsana Prabhu the problem is——HOW???? do you EXPOSE these DUMB ASS Torben without putting his name and bogus ideology for for display on public?
    If we do NOT expose these Anti Ritvik GOONS by NAME and THEIR IDEOLOGY —-then—– HOW will the INNOCENT devotees at large on Internet know of them? We have to be PRACTICAL that INNOCENT devotees are NOT DUPED by these Anti Ritvik CROOKS.
    We have to see is HOW we can SERVE Srila Prabhupada’s mission as he wants to EXPOSE these Anti Ritvik CROOKS. Srila Prabhupada WANTS this:

    731209SB.LA Lectures
    So this Krsna consciousness movement is a challenge to all the rascals and fools, that’s all. SO THOSE WHO HAVE TAKEN THIS MOVEMENT VERY SERIOUSLY, THEY SHOULD BE VERY SOBER AND UNDERSTAND AT LEAST YOU MUST EXPOSE ALL THESE RASCALS. THAT WILL BE VERY MUCH APPRECIATED BY KRSNA.
    Thank you very much. (end)

    730503mw.la Conversations
    That these rascals are jackals. Now they are talking nonsense. We can detect that “Here is a jackal.” SO WE HAVE TO EXPOSE THEM. THEY ARE NOT LEADER; THEY ARE JACKALS. SO JACKALS CANNOT ANYMORE RULE OVER. THAT SHOULD BE OUR PROPAGANDA. NOT ONLY SCIENTIFIC, ALL POLITICAL THINGS, SOCIAL THINGS, EVERYTHING. They should be all kicked out. They should be replaced by Krsna consciousness. Then people will be happy. This should be our program.

    Reply
    • Balaram das says:

      22. December 2017 at 1:15 am

      Dear Mahesh Raj prabhu, yes we know all the quotes from Srila Prabhupada about exposing these rascals, however the point here is more in how these posts are being presented on the forum as a ‘heading’ and ‘lead in’ subject. Same as the article by Krsna Balaram swami.

      Sudarsana prabhu states>> “… so nonsense baited terms such as “Ritvik confusion” and “Ritvik Dogma” are anomalies which are highly misleading offences to His Divine Grace and The Supreme Lord Himself.”

      I would assume the major majority of Forum readers and commenters are very well versed in the subject matters (preaching to the choir), however an uneducated new reader on the Forum might just be more confused with a cursory glace at the heading and initial subject matter, without delving further.

      It’s more about a positive structure of the article and we can learn from Srila Baladeva’s Govinda Bhasya commentary on Vedanta Sutra. The Vidyabhusana begins his commentaries on the sutra with a positive declaration (visaya), then presents a (doubt) which may arise. After this he presents the opposing arguments or alternatives (purvapaksa) and concludes (siddhanta) with the correct sastric quotes to confirm the ‘visaya’.

      It’s not that these rascals are not exposed, but there is an established system which effectively defeats them and relegates them to their true position.

      Yhs,
      Balaram das.

      Reply
      • Mahesh Raja says:

        22. December 2017 at 11:15 am

        Balaram : Dear Mahesh Raj prabhu, yes we know all the quotes from Srila Prabhupada about exposing these rascals, however the point here is more in how these posts are being presented on the forum as a ‘heading’ and ‘lead in’ subject. Same as the article by Krsna Balaram swami.

        Sudarsana prabhu states>> “… so nonsense baited terms such as “Ritvik confusion” and “Ritvik Dogma” are anomalies which are highly misleading offences to His Divine Grace and The Supreme Lord Himself.”

        Mahesh: Fair comment, Balaram Prabhu. Thank-you for the clarification. Yes – I agree with you that there has to be alternative way to present the heading on the forum for exposing these Anti Ritvik CROOKS.

        Reply
        • Sudarsana Das Vanacari says:

          22. December 2017 at 4:01 pm

          Yes! we should not, in my humble opinion begin or post an article which is highly misleading, and uses terms which are also highly and deliberately oxymorons, completely at odds with the express instructions of Srila Prabhupada and The Supreme Lord. This is like setting your house on fire and then making so much effort to then put it out (in the comments section!). Idiots like Turban should not be handed the microphone, but should be ignored as you cannot educate fools and miscreants, as this only creates a disturbance. I am sure that Srila Prabhupada would not tollerate such ranting of mudhas, he would immediately cut them off as one would stop a miscreant giving others poison.

          I take Mahesh Raja’s point of ”protecting the innocent” but the whole World are Dharmadvargi (the cheaters and the cheated) but the vast majority of rascals and crooks are the cheated! BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BE CHEATED the crooks come to cheat them! It is the cheated who will defend the cheaters, lie for them, and commit atrocities on their behalf as the cheaters won’t want to get their hands dirty! They will just get some dumb, cheated baboon to beat you up, or worse! It is very rare to find ”innocent devotees” as it is the exception (despite the hoards partaking in the Circus Parade!).

          Fools such as Turban should just be ignored. The whole World is full of ignorant cheated fools. We shouldn’t give them an inch. The airwaves, media, television, and radio is saturated with ignorant, cheated morons, all selling misinformation, delusion, lies and propaganda.

          Reply
          • Mahesh Raja says:

            22. December 2017 at 8:21 pm

            Sudarsana Das: Idiots like Turban should not be handed the microphone, but should be ignored as you cannot educate fools and miscreants, as this only creates a disturbance.

            Mahesh: It is not for the education of ENVIOUS DUMB ASS Torben but educating the general INNOCENT devotees—- wherever—- they are . Heading needs changing – accepted. However, Ignore is NOT what Srila Prabhupada wants:

            731209SB.LA Lectures
            So this Krsna consciousness movement is a challenge to all the rascals and fools, that’s all. SO THOSE WHO HAVE TAKEN THIS MOVEMENT VERY SERIOUSLY, THEY SHOULD BE VERY SOBER AND UNDERSTAND AT LEAST YOU MUST EXPOSE ALL THESE RASCALS. THAT WILL BE VERY MUCH APPRECIATED BY KRSNA.
            Thank you very much. (end)

            730503mw.la Conversations
            That these rascals are jackals. Now they are talking nonsense. We can detect that “Here is a jackal.” SO WE HAVE TO EXPOSE THEM. THEY ARE NOT LEADER; THEY ARE JACKALS. SO JACKALS CANNOT ANYMORE RULE OVER. THAT SHOULD BE OUR PROPAGANDA. NOT ONLY SCIENTIFIC, ALL POLITICAL THINGS, SOCIAL THINGS, EVERYTHING. They should be all kicked out. They should be replaced by Krsna consciousness. Then people will be happy. This should be our program.

            Reply
            • Sudarsana Das Vanacari says:

              23. December 2017 at 4:45 am

              Mahesh Raja Prabhu. I do not disagree with your general premise (and you have also provided many quotes by Srila Prabhupada), but your term ”general INNOCENT devotees” (with the emphasis on INNOCENT) I find a little problematic. Just who are these ”general INNOCENT devotees” you are alluding to? If you compare them to the general populace of the wolrd you will find that they are brainwashed, cheated, exploited, downtrodden, abused and despised by Satanic overlords, but also they are also the victims of their own vices. They for the most part are content to be cheated and exploited (generally) and become very disturbed when you reveal to them (for their own benefit) out of compassion that their actions are detrimental and destructive.

              They are so conditioned they will kill you if you tell them how they are being manipulated and brainwashed by the countries ”leaders” who heard them on mass to perform mass murder and torture in foreign countries which only benefit war profiteers and multinational conglomerates. This is a scenario that has been going on for thousands of years, this is because ”generally most people are fools and rascals” and are content to be this way.
              Well that is my understanding anyway.

              Reply
              • Mahesh Raja says:

                23. December 2017 at 11:22 am

                Sudarsana Das: Mahesh Raja Prabhu. I do not disagree with your general premise (and you have also provided many quotes by Srila Prabhupada), but your term ”general INNOCENT devotees” (with the emphasis on INNOCENT) I find a little problematic. Just who are these ”general INNOCENT devotees” you are alluding to?

                Mahesh: these general INNOCENT devotees are those that have left ISKCON for some reason or another. Sometimes they DO read THIS website and get INSPIRED in their spiritual life. Occasionally, I have got emails and they like the Anti Ritviks smashed with all the good arguments with Srila Prabhupada quotes to back up. So it is not that we are alone. Srila Prabhupada also says, better one moon than so many stars: we do not have to direct to many but even if one person can accept – that – is our success.

                Reply
                • Sudarsana Das Vanacari says:

                  23. December 2017 at 5:28 pm

                  Prabhu, there are many persons who have left ISKCON. This does not mean that they are INNOCENT! Some have joined the Gaudiya Math, (like I did for a while!) some have become hippies, drug addicts. I was not innocent when I joined Gaudiya Math (even for a year or so) I was a fool and a rascal and still am!

                  The point I am trying to make is that ”generally” most people want to be cheated! and that sincere devotees are the exception even though Narayana Swami has been thoroughly exposed as a fraud (including by myself) still many still follow as they are rascals with no intelligence.

                  Yes, your last point is well taken, as even if there was only ONE PERSON who felt that they got some benefit or inspiration with regards to the message that I am trying to repeat from Srila Prabhupada, then that is well worth the endeavor as it is our duty to Srila Prabhupada, but those persons are the EXCEPTION as most do not want to know. That is all I am saying.

                  Reply
                  • Mahesh Raja says:

                    24. December 2017 at 1:46 am

                    Aside from some FEW exceptions of the INNOCENT we ARE in agreement. Just like you also came to accept Srila Prabhupada as Diksa guru. But It IS a FACT there are many cheaters and they have got Anti Ritvik cheater for a guru. This is HOW the society is run today. Both classes are going to hell:

                    SB 6.7.14 Indra Offends His Spiritual Master, Brhaspati.
                    A stone boat would be unable to float and would sink in the water with its passengers. SIMILARLY, THOSE WHO MISLEAD PEOPLE GO TO HELL, AND THEIR FOLLOWERS GO WITH THEM.

                    72-12-14. Letter: Tusta Krsna
                    As for your next question, can only a few pure devotees deliver others, anyone, if he is a pure devotee he can deliver others, he can become spiritual master. But unless he on that platform he should not attempt it. THEN BOTH OF THEM WILL TO GO TO HELL, LIKE BLIND MEN LEADING THE BLIND.

                    Reply
16. Mahatma das says:

    21. December 2017 at 7:24 am

    The pure devotee has a spiritual body: he is not of this material world, although he may appear to be to those who are confused about his true identity, or envious about his real glory, as the son or empowered messenger of God,shaktyavesa avatar.

    Lecture on BG 4.1-6 — Los Angeles, January 3, 1969:
    Devotee: Prabhupāda? Does Lord Jesus Christ appear in the spiritual sky with the body he manifested on the earth?
    Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise how there can be resurrection? Ordinary body cannot be resurrected. He appeared in his spiritual body, certainly. Jesus Christ told, if I remember, that “Lord, excuse these persons,” who were crucifying him. Is it not? He knew that “These rascals, they are killing me, but… They are offending certainly. So they do not know that I cannot be killed, but they are thinking that they are killing.” You see? But that was offensive, therefore he begged Lord to be excused because God cannot excuse to the offenders of the devotee. He can excuse one who is offender to God, but if somebody is offender to the devotee, God never excuses. Therefore he prayed for them. That is devotee’s qualification. He prays for everyone, even of his enemy. And he could not be killed. That he knew. But those rascals, they thought they were killing Jesus Christ.

    Reply
17. Abhaya carana seva das says:

    21. December 2017 at 10:26 am

    Pamho
    agtacbsp,
    sri jiva goswami disapperance day ki

    jai srila prabhupada is the only diksa guru all other are mayavadi maha aparadhi

    agtsp
    ys haribol

    Reply
18. Amar Puri says:

    22. December 2017 at 10:05 pm

    Mahesh: ” Fair comment, Balaram Prabhu. Thank-you for the clarification. Yes — I agree with you that there has to be alternative way to present the heading on the forum for exposing these Anti Ritvik CROOKS.”

    No doubt, there are all varieties of Anti Ritvik CROOKS out there.

    To present the heading of a particular article such as ” The Ritvik Confusion on Parampara ” written by one of such CROOK who happens to be Bhakta Torban’s article on the Sun Sampardaya web site, it can be under the head line on this web site stating;

    ” The Ritvik Instructions ” on Parampara BY HDG. SRILA PRABHUPADA.

    – ( instead of ) –

    The Ritvik Confusion on Parampara BY: BHAKTA TORBEN ;

    That is what appears on the head line of this article which looks not so appropriate, indeed, to the Readers.

    As it seems, the above suggestion is one of the way which is quite proper and appropriate to the reasonings brought out by the following Learned Commentators ;

    Balaram : Dear Mahesh Raj prabhu, yes we know all the quotes from Srila Prabhupada about exposing these rascals, however the point here is more in how these posts are being presented on the forum as a ‘heading’ and ‘lead in’ subject. Same as the article by Krsna Balaram swami.

    Sudarsana prabhu states>> “… so nonsense baited terms such as “Ritvik confusion” and “Ritvik Dogma” are anomalies which are highly misleading offences to His Divine Grace and The Supreme Lord Himself.”

    Hope it helps.

    Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.

    Reply
    • Mahesh Raja says:

      23. December 2017 at 12:03 pm

      “The Torben Confusion on Parampara” is the appropriate heading. Why? because this DUMB ASS Bhakta Torben has ZERO understanding of the Parampara(disciplic succession). ALL his attempt is about REPLACING Srila Prabhupada as Diksa guru in the Parampara. He has NO BRAIN to understand that Srila Prabhupada is the CURRENT PROMINENT ACARYA and that the ACARYA is the one who GIVES Diksa (ONLY AN EMPOWERED PERSONALITY CAN DISTRIBUTE THE HOLY NAME OF THE LORD). He is *****EMPOWERED***** to GIVE the HOLY name. Acarya does NOT have to be physically present to do this: July 9th 1977 Ritvik Order was and arrangement to give 1st and 2nd initiations ON BEHALF of Srila Prabhupada. This is a FORMALITY process.

      WE HAVE TO PICK UP THE PROMINENT ACARYA, AND FOLLOW FROM HIM.
      68-04-12. Letter: Dayananda
      Regarding parampara system: there is nothing to wonder for big gaps. Just like we belong to the Brahma Sampradaya, so we accept it from Krishna to Brahma, Brahma to Narada, Narada to Vyasadeva, Vyasadeva to Madhva, and between Vyasadeva and Madhva there is a big gap. But it is sometimes said that Vyasadeva is still living, and Madhva was fortunate enough to meet him directly. In a similar way, we find in the Bhagavad-gita that the Gita was taught to the sungod, some millions of years ago, but Krishna has mentioned only three names in this parampara system–namely, Vivasvan, Manu, and Iksvaku; and so these gaps do not hamper from understanding the parampara system. WE HAVE TO PICK UP THE PROMINENT ACARYA, AND FOLLOW FROM HIM. There are many branches also from the parampara system, and it is not possible to record all the branches and sub-branches in the disciplic succession. We have to pick up from the authority of the acharya in whatever sampradaya we belong to.

      SB 3.29.17 P Explanation of Devotional Service by Lord Kapila
      In Bhagavad-gita, Thirteenth Chapter, it is clearly stated that one should execute devotional service and advance on the path of spiritual knowledge by accepting the acarya. Acaryopasanam: one should worship an acarya, a spiritual master who knows things as they are. THE SPIRITUAL MASTER MUST BE IN THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION FROM KRSNA. THE PREDECESSORS OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER ARE HIS SPIRITUAL MASTER, HIS GRAND SPIRITUAL MASTER, HIS GREAT-GRAND SPIRITUAL MASTER AND SO ON, WHO FORM THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION OF ACARYAS.

      760819VP.HYD Lectures
      Therefore in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, the beginning is dharmah projjhita-kaitavo ‘tra paramo nirmatsaranam. So the… Somebody may envy that this person has sophisticated some disciples and they are offering prayers and puja. No, it is the system. Don’t envy the… Acaryam mam vijaniyan navamanyeta karhicit. Acarya is the representative of God. Yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasado. If you offer prayers, honor to the acarya, then Krsna the Supreme Personality of Godhead is pleased. To please Him you have to please His representative. “If you love me, love my dog.” And in the Bhagavad-gita it is said acaryopasanam. Acaryopasanam. WE HAVE TO WORSHIP THE ACARYA.

      Madhya 25.9 How All the Residents of Varanasi Became Vaisnavas
      “In Dvapara-yuga, devotees of Lord Visnu and Krsna rendered devotional service according to the principles of pancaratrika. In this Age of Kali, the Supreme Personality of Godhead is worshiped simply by the chanting of His holy names.» Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura then comments: “WITHOUT BEING EMPOWERED BY THE DIRECT POTENCY OF LORD KRSNA TO FULFILL HIS DESIRE AND WITHOUT BEING SPECIFICALLY FAVORED BY THE LORD, NO HUMAN BEING CAN BECOME THE SPIRITUAL MASTER OF THE WHOLE WORLD. He certainly cannot succeed by mental concoction, which is not meant for devotees or religious people. ONLY AN EMPOWERED PERSONALITY CAN DISTRIBUTE THE HOLY NAME OF THE LORD AND ENJOIN ALL FALLEN SOULS TO WORSHIP KRSNA. BY DISTRIBUTING THE HOLY NAME OF THE LORD, HE CLEANSES THE HEARTS OF THE MOST FALLEN PEOPLE; THEREFORE HE EXTINGUISHES THE BLAZING FIRE OF THE MATERIAL WORLD. Not only that, he broadcasts the shining brightness of Krsna’s effulgence throughout the world. Such an acarya, or spiritual master, should be considered nondifferent from Krsna-that is, he should be considered the incarnation of Lord Krsna’s potency. Such a personality is krsnalingita-vigraha-that is, he is always embraced by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna. Such a person is above the considerations of the varnasrama institution. He is the guru or spiritual master for the entire world, a devotee on the topmost platform, the maha-bhagavata stage, and a paramahamsa-thakura, a spiritual form only fit to be addressed as paramahamsa or thakura.”
      Nonetheless, there are many people who are just like owls but never open their eyes to see the sunshine. These owlish personalities are inferior to the Mayavadi sannyasis who cannot see the brilliance of Krsna’s favor. They are prepared to criticize the person engaged in distributing the holy name all over the world and following in the footsteps of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, who wanted Krsna consciousness preached in every town and city.

      SB 2.9.8 P Answers by Citing the Lord’ s Version
      THE POTENCY OF TRANSCENDENTAL SOUND IS NEVER MINIMIZED BECAUSE THE VIBRATOR IS APPARENTLY ABSENT.

      690113LE.LA                  Lectures
         ” Similarly, arcye sila-dhir gurusu na… Gurusu means those who are acaryas, to accept their body as ordinary man’s body, this is denied in the sastras. SO ALTHOUGH A PHYSICAL BODY IS NOT PRESENT, THE VIBRATION SHOULD BE ACCEPTED AS THE PRESENCE OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER, VIBRATION. WHAT WE HAVE HEARD FROM THE SPIRITUAL MASTER, THAT IS LIVING.

      72-12-14. Letter: Tusta Krsna
      Next you ask if I am present in my picture and form? YES. IN FORM AS WELL AS IN TEACHINGS. TO CARRY OUT THE TEACHINGS OF GURU IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN TO WORSHIP THE FORM, BUT NONE OF THEM SHOULD BE NEGLECTED. FORM IS CALLED VAPU AND TEACHINGS IS CALLED VANI. BOTH SHOULD BE WORSHIPED. VANI IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN VAPU

      Adi 1.35 The Spiritual Masters
      The service of the spiritual master is essential. If there is no chance to serve the spiritual master directly, a devotee should serve him by remembering his instructions. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SPIRITUAL MASTER’S INSTRUCTIONS AND THE SPIRITUAL MASTER HIMSELF. IN HIS ABSENCE, THEREFORE, HIS WORDS OF DIRECTION SHOULD BE THE PRIDE OF THE DISCIPLE.

      750721mw.sf Conversations
      Narayana: So those disciples who don’t have opportunity to see you or speak with you…
      Prabhupada: That he was speaking, vani and vapuh. Even if you don’t see his body, you take his word, vani.
      Narayana: But how do they know they’re pleasing you, Srila Prabhupada?
      Prabhupada: If you actually follow the words of guru, that means he is pleased. And if you do not follow, how he can be pleased?
      Sudama: Not only that, but your mercy is spread everywhere, and if we take advantage, you told us once, then we will feel the result.
      Prabhupada: Yes.
      Jayadvaita: And if we have faith in what the guru says, then automatically we’ll do that.
      Prabhupada: Yes. My Guru Maharaja passed in 1936, and I started this movement in 1965, thirty years after. Then? I am getting the mercy of guru. THIS IS VANI. EVEN THE GURU IS NOT PHYSICALLY PRESENT, IF YOU FOLLOW THE VANI, THEN YOU ARE GETTING HELP.
      Sudama: So there’s no question of ever separation as long as the disciple follows the instruction of guru.
      Prabhupada: No. Cakhu-dan dilo jei… What is that, next one?
      Sudama: Cakhu-dan dilo jei, janme janme prabhu sei.
      Prabhupada: JANME JANME PRABHU SEI. SO WHERE THERE IS SEPARATION? WHO HAS OPENED YOUR EYES, HE IS BIRTH AFTER BIRTH YOUR PRABHU.

      770714r2.vrn Conversations
      Prabhupada: I SHALL REMAIN YOUR PERSONAL GUIDANCE, PHYSICALLY PRESENT OR NOT PHYSICALLY, AS I AM GETTING PERSONAL GUIDANCE FROM MY GURU MAHARAJA.

      Reply
      • Amar Puri says:

        23. December 2017 at 6:15 pm

        Mahesh Raja says: “The Torben Confusion on Parampara” is the appropriate heading. Why? because this DUMB ASS Bhakta Torben has ZERO understanding of the Parampara(disciplic succession). ”

        Prabhus, the heading of this article is CERTAINLY not meant to refer and address for DUMB ASS Bhakta Torben specially who refuses to accept the Ritvik Instructions of HDG. Srila Prabhupada.

        There are so many ENVIOUS people out there who also rejects directly or indirectly Srila Prabhupada’s Ritvik Instructions for the continuation of the Parampara that Srila Prabhupada so clearly has established and explained for his sincere and serious followers in order to go back Home Back to Godhead.

        It is for those such particular sincere and serious people who have not yet understood thoroughly the Ritvik system of Initiation Instructions upon reading the head line of this article can possibly be very much misleading into CONFUSION itself in so many ways.

        That is one of the concern, perhaps, as it seems being agreed by the following comments ;

        Mahesh: ” Fair comment, Balaram Prabhu. Thank-you for the clarification. Yes — I agree with you that there has to be alternative way to present the heading on the forum for exposing these Anti Ritvik CROOKS.”

        Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.

        Reply
        • Balaram das says:

          25. December 2017 at 1:32 am

          Hare Krsna Amar Puri prabhu, yes I agree.

          I don’t see why this anti-ritvik Torben’s name should appear at all in an article header on the “Followers of Prabhupada” Forum, and the article start with his concocted rant. There are hundreds of ‘anti-ritviks’ posting their concoctions elsewhere, so do we also give all of them ‘air-time’ as well!

          Simply start the article with a positive Header and declaration statement, then dispose of him and his concoctions in the body of the article. Even the fact that there is the beautiful photo of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada placed within Torben’s post, appears to give credence to his words, especially maybe for new readers to the Forum.

          It’s not until you scroll down to Urdhvaga prabhu’s comment that you actually see the true intent of the article. Of course we want to expose the usurpers as Mahesh Raj prabhu emphatically states, but it’s just about the heading and structure for positive reinforcement.

          As always, many thanks to Webmaster prabhu for providing and maintaining this facility for the service of Srila Prabhupada.

          Yhs,
          Balaram das.

          [webmaster: Thank you prabhu, bogus Torben quote moved between article comments now. Sorry that we can’t always provide “positive headings” when posting about problems, it’s about article’s subject, not for giving special credit]

          Reply
19. Abhaya carana seva das says:

    23. December 2017 at 3:49 am

    Pamho
    agtacbsp,

    its disgusting to see the old generation of hare krsna still trapped with the nasty guru hoaxers,they got also so many salagram sila without doing a proper worship with proper mantra regulary, some of this big donkey just keep the salagram sila as a fashion,

    they think they are in the right track therefore not bogus,they think also they are pure and people get trouble sby offending them, some of these big donkey from more then 30 years took diksa by the gaudiya math from puri maharaj now is dead but to take diksa by a godbrother of srila prabhupada is very offensive because hdg sbsst authorise only acbsp to give diksa therefore all these big donkey are not really initiated and they get kicked out very often by others bogus temples in fiskcon,

    they got sri krsna in the form of salagram sila but they dont have even a room where to sleep and they go always to be the guest of the wrong is sick person by asking what is there to enjoy without caring for the silas and ready to sin,then why they got all these problems to serve ssgg?because they are cheated until the last breath through a fake diksa guru,they got a very heavy karma and strong mental concoction claimed as real devotees therefore they are super mudhas donkey,

    agtsp
    ys haribol

    Reply
20. Mahesh Raja says:

    24. December 2017 at 2:19 am

    Note: this DUMB ASS Torben does not want to speak out his gurus name BUT here Srila Prabhupada states that that is IMPERSONALISM:

    72-07-14. Letter: Bhavananda
    ONE THING, ON THE INVITATION CARD YOU HAVE WRITTEN ALL GLORIES TO OUR GURU MAHARAJA. THIS IS IMPERSONALISM. AS SOON AS WE OFFER OBEISANCES TO GURU, THE NAME SHOULD BE THERE. WE ARE STRICTLY PERSONALISTS. The sahajiya’s, they write Glories to Guru. Why you are learning this impersonalism, who has taught you? DAILY I AM OFFERING OBEISANCES TO MY GURU BY VIBRATING HIS REAL NAME, SRILA BHAKTISIDDHANTA SARASVATI, OTHERWISE IT IS IMPERSONAL. JAPA

    Reply
21. Amar Puri says:

    25. December 2017 at 5:27 pm

    Webmaster writes : Thank you prabhu, bogus Torben quote moved between article comments now. Sorry that we can’t always provide “positive headings” when posting about problems, it’s about article’s subject, not for giving special credit]

    Dear Webmaster,

    The followings are few example for the ” positive headings ” which serves the purpose.

    ” The Ritvik Instructions ” on Parampara BY HDG. SRILA PRABHUPADA.

    OR

    Is there REALLY ” Ritvik Confusion on Parampara ” as FOOLISHLY written BY: BHAKTA TORBEN on Sun Sampardaya web site ;

    Perhaps, other learned Readers can also offer some suggestions as well.

    Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.

    Reply
22. Marici Das says:

    26. December 2017 at 5:06 pm

    If someone wants to rebute a statement , he should do it in a straight way and not by tricks.

    Reply
23. Mahesh Raja says:

    23. January 2018 at 4:12 pm

    Just see!!! Yet AGAIN this Anti Ritvik rascal DUMB ASS Torben SAHAJIYA he STILL wants to rubber-stamp manufacture CONDITIONED SOUL cheap version bogus gurus that do NOT SEE Krsna TO BE INCLUDED with the BONAFIDE PARAMPARA Acaryas:

    http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/01-18/editorials15718.htm

    72-06-15. Letter: Himavati
    Don’t try to do anything artificially. THAT IS SAHAJIYA, WHICH MEANS A CLASS OF MEN THAT TAKE EVERYTHING VERY CHEAP.

    Below are just a few examples how a Maha Bhagavata (Spiritual Master) SEES Krsna:
    He was therefore TATTVA-DARSI, a seer of the truth, **BECAUSE HE PERSONALLY SAW** how the Supreme Absolute Truth appeared as his son.

    SB 10.3.14
    “Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the truth.” Vasudeva begot the Supreme Personality of Godhead, yet he was in full knowledge of how the Supreme Lord appears and disappears. He was therefore TATTVA-DARSI, a seer of the truth, ** ** how the Supreme Absolute Truth BECAUSE HE PERSONALLY SAW appeared as his son.”
    WHEN HE **SEES** THE LORD PERSONALLY, FACE TO FACE,
    SB 8.6.9
    The Vedic mantras say: yasmin vijnate sarvam evam vijnatam bhavati. WHEN THE DEVOTEE **SEES** THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD BY HIS MEDITATION, OR WHEN HE **SEES** THE LORD PERSONALLY, FACE TO FACE, HE BECOMES AWARE OF EVERYTHING WITHIN THIS UNIVERSE. Indeed, nothing is unknown to him. Everything within this material world is fully manifested to a devotee who has** SEEN** the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Bhagavad-gita (4.34) therefore advises:
    tad viddhi pranipatena
    pariprasnena sevaya
    upadeksyanti te jnanam
    jnaninas tattva-darsinah
    “Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized **soul** can impart knowledge unto you because **he** has seen the truth.”
    Lord Brahma is one of these self-realized authorities (svayambhur naradah sambhuh kumarah kapilo manuh). One must therefore accept the disciplic succession from Lord Brahma, and then one can understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead **in fullness**. Here the word visva-murtau indicates that everything exists in the form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. ONE WHO IS ABLE TO WORSHIP HIM CAN SEE EVERYTHING IN HIM AND SEE HIM IN EVERYTHING.
    Pratyaksvagamam means DIRECT PERCEPTION—-Krsna is directly EXPERIENCED:

    Bg 9.2
    raja-vidya raja-guhyam
    pavitram idam uttamam
    PRATYAKSAVAGAMAM dharmyam
    su-sukham kartum avyayam
    This knowledge is the king of education, the most secret of all secrets. It is the purest knowledge, and because it gives DIRECT PERCEPTION OF THE SELF BY REALIZATION, it is the perfection of religion. It is everlasting, and it is joyfully performed.
    The great devotees relished the taste of unceasing devotional service of the Lord, hearing, chanting, etc., and by developing the same taste, Narada wanted also to hear and chant the glories of the Lord. Thus by associating with the sages, he developed a great desire for devotional service. Therefore, he quotes from the Vedanta-sutra (prakasas ca karmany abhyasat): if one is engaged simply in the acts of devotional service, **EVERYTHING IS REVEALED TO HIM AUTOMATICALLY**, AND HE CAN UNDERSTAND. THIS IS CALLED **PRATYAKSA**, **DIRECTLY PERCEIVED**.
    “THE WORD TATTVA-DARSI REFERS TO ONE WHO HAS** PERFECTLY REALIZED** THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD.”

    SB 5.15.4
    The word anusasmara is very significant. God consciousness is not imaginary or concocted. THE DEVOTEE WHO IS PURE AND ADVANCED REALIZES GOD AS HE IS. MAHARAJA PRATIHA DID SO, AND DUE TO HIS **DIRECT REALIZATION OF LORD VISNU**, he propagated self-realization and became a preacher. A REAL PREACHER CANNOT BE BOGUS; HE MUST FIRST OF ALL REALIZE LORD VISNU AS HE IS.As confirmed in Bhagavad-gita (4.34), upadeksyanti te jnanam jnaninas tattva-darsinah: “ONE WHO HAS SEEN THE TRUTH CAN IMPART KNOWLEDGE.” THE WORD TATTVA-DARSI REFERS TO ONE WHO HAS** PERFECTLY REALIZED** THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD. SUCH A PERSON CAN BECOME A GURU AND PROPOUND VAISNAVA PHILOSOPHY ALL OVER THE WORLD.
    FACTUALLY, THE SPIRITUALLY DEVELOPED PERSON IS ABLE TO HAVE THE TELEVISION OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD ALWAYS REFLECTED WITHIN HIS HEART.

    SB 2.9.35 P Answers by Citing the Lord’ s Version
    “Therefore, although He is present in every atom, the Supreme Personality of Godhead may not be visible to the dry speculators; still the mystery is unfolded before the eyes of the pure devotees because their eyes are anointed with love of Godhead. And this love of Godhead can be attained only by the practice of transcendental loving service of the Lord, and nothing else. The vision of the devotees is not ordinary; it is purified by the process of devotional service. In other words, as the universal elements are both within and without, similarly the Lord’s name, form, quality, pastimes, entourage, etc., as they are described in the revealed scriptures or as performed in the Vaikunthalokas, far, far beyond the material cosmic manifestation, ARE FACTUALLY BEING TELEVISED IN THE HEART OF THE DEVOTEE. The man with a poor fund of knowledge cannot understand, although by material science one can see things far away by means of television. FACTUALLY, THE SPIRITUALLY DEVELOPED PERSON IS ABLE TO HAVE THE TELEVISION OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD ALWAYS REFLECTED WITHIN HIS HEART. THAT IS THE MYSTERY OF KNOWLEDGE OF THE PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD.”
    WHEN ONE IS ON THE PLATFORM OF LOVE OF GODHEAD (PREMA PUMARTHO MAHAN) HE SEES THE SUPREME LORD AT EVERY MOMENT.

    SB 6.16.51 P King Citraketu Meets the Supreme Lord
    “The science of devotional service has been instructed by Narada and Angira to Citraketu. Now, because of Citraketu’s devotional service, he has seen the Supreme Personality of Godhead. By performing devotional service, one advances step by step, and WHEN ONE IS ON THE PLATFORM OF LOVE OF GODHEAD (PREMA PUMARTHO MAHAN) HE SEES THE SUPREME LORD AT EVERY MOMENT. ”
    “THE DEVOTEE WHO HAS ANOINTED HIS EYES WITH THE OINTMENT OF LOVE OF GODHEAD ALWAYS SEES THE BEAUTIFUL BLACKISH FORM OF KRSNA WITHIN HIS HEART.”

    DWT 7 Seeing God within
    “The perfect yogi is one who has prema, pure love for Krsna. As the Brahma-samhita (5.38) states, premanjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santah sadaiva hrdayesu vilokayanti: “THE DEVOTEE WHO HAS ANOINTED HIS EYES WITH THE OINTMENT OF LOVE OF GODHEAD ALWAYS SEES THE BEAUTIFUL BLACKISH FORM OF KRSNA WITHIN HIS HEART. ” We cannot imagine how beautiful Krsna is. It is said that Krsna’s body is more beautiful than millions of Cupids (kandarpa-koti-kamaniya-visesa-sobham [Bs. 5.30]). Cupid is very beautiful, but even if you place millions of Cupids together, their beauty cannot compare with Krsna’s. These things cannot be understood unless one’s eyes are smeared with the ointment of love of Godhead.
    WE CANNOT UNDERSTAND GOD WITH OUR PRESENT BLUNT MATERIAL SENSES, WHICH ARE SIMPLY AFTER MATERIAL GRATIFICATION. WITH THEM HOW CAN WE PERCEIVE KRSNA, WHO IS COMPLETELY SPIRITUAL? It is not possible. Therefore we must purify the senses through the process of bhakti:
    atah sri-krsna-namadi na bhaved grahyam indriyaih
    sevonmukhe hi jihvadau svayam eva sphuraty adah
    “No one can understand the transcendental nature of the name, form, qualities, and pastimes of Sri Krsna through his materially contaminated senses. Only when one becomes spiritually saturated by transcendental service to the Lord are the transcendental name, form, qualities, and pastimes of the Lord revealed to him” (Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu 1.2.234). ”

    PREMANJANA-CCHURITA-BHAKTI-VILOCANENA: ONLY THOSE WHO HAVE SMEARED THEIR EYES WITH THE OINTMENT OF LOVE OF GODHEAD CAN SEE EVERYWHERE THE SUPREME LORD FACE TO FACE;
    SB 4.12.11 P Dhruva Maharaja Goes Back to Godhead
    “Not only did Dhruva Maharaja perform many sacrifices, but he carried on his transcendental occupation of engagement in the devotional service of the Lord. The ordinary karmis, who want to enjoy the results of fruitive activities, are concerned only with sacrifices and ritualistic ceremonies as enjoined in the Vedic sastras. Although Dhruva Maharaja performed many sacrifices in order to be an exemplary king, he was constantly engaged in devotional service. The Lord always protects His surrendered devotee. A devotee can see that the Lord is situated in everyone’s heart, as stated in the Bhagavad-gita (isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese ‘rjuna tisthati). ORDINARY PERSONS CANNOT UNDERSTAND HOW THE SUPREME LORD IS SITUATED IN EVERYONE’S HEART, BUT A DEVOTEE CAN ACTUALLY SEE HIM. NOT ONLY CAN THE DEVOTEE SEE HIM OUTWARDLY, BUT HE CAN SEE, WITH SPIRITUAL VISION, THAT EVERYTHING IS RESTING IN THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD, AS DESCRIBED IN BHAGAVAD-GITA (MAT-STHANI SARVA-BHUTANI). THAT IS THE VISION OF A MAHA-BHAGAVATA. HE SEES EVERYTHING OTHERS SEE, BUT INSTEAD OF SEEING MERELY THE TREES, THE MOUNTAINS, THE CITIES OR THE SKY, HE SEES ONLY HIS WORSHIPABLE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD IN EVERYTHING BECAUSE EVERYTHING IS RESTING IN HIM ONLY. THIS IS THE VISION OF THE MAHA-BHAGAVATA. IN SUMMARY, A MAHA-BHAGAVATA, A HIGHLY ELEVATED PURE DEVOTEE, SEES THE LORD EVERYWHERE, AS WELL AS WITHIN THE HEART OF EVERYONE. THIS IS POSSIBLE FOR DEVOTEES WHO HAVE DEVELOPED ELEVATED DEVOTIONAL SERVICE TO THE LORD. AS STATED IN THE BRAHMA-SAMHITA (5.38), PREMANJANA-CCHURITA-BHAKTI- VILOCANENA: ONLY THOSE WHO HAVE SMEARED THEIR EYES WITH THE OINTMENT OF LOVE OF GODHEAD CAN SEE EVERYWHERE THE SUPREME LORD FACE TO FACE; IT IS NOT POSSIBLE BY IMAGINATION OR SO-CALLED MEDITATION.”

    Note:His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada is ALWAYS consulting Krsna
    760714iv.ny
    Bali-mardana: In other words, when you decide that someone is to be in charge of a particular temple does Krsna tell you that this person should be in charge.
    Interviewer: Or do you by judging him say this person is qualified.
    Prabhupada: YES, BECAUSE A DEVOTEE ALWAYS CONSULTS KRSNA AND HE GIVES ORDER.
    Interviewer: IT’S A MORE DIRECT COMMUNICATION.
    Prabhupada: YES. AND HE GIVES ORDER.
    Ramesvara: Because intelligence, our philosophy is that intelligence comes from Krsna. So if I have some…
    Interviewer: And your philosophy is that your daily necessities come from Krsna as well.
    Ramesvara: Yes, try to understand. Suppose my intelligence sees that this person is qualified, that means Krsna has told me.
    Prabhupada: NO, NOT NECESSARILY, KRSNA WILL TELL DIRECTLY. A DEVOTEE ALWAYS CONSULTS KRSNA AND KRSNA TELLS HIM, “DO LIKE THIS.” NOT FIGURATIVELY.
    Interviewer: Does that apply then to other kinds of decisions and other kinds of activities as well?
    Prabhupada: EVERYTHING. BECAUSE A DEVOTEE DOES NOT DO ANYTHING WITHOUT CONSULTING KRSNA.

    Reply
24. Amar Puri says:

    24. January 2018 at 11:58 pm

    Dear Readers,

    Kindly beware of Torban’s ANTI – RITVIK writings on the Sun Samparadaya.

    Torban bhakta writes comments whatever it best suits his agenda to promote ANTI-RITVIK propaganda by quoting Srila Prabhupada’s INCOMPLETE writing to mislead the Readers.

    Upon verifying and reading what he quotes from Srila Prabhupada’s VANI , the interested Readers may find out only the intent and purpose of Torban Bhakti’s writings which is MISLEADING so that he can propagate his Anti – Ritvik Agenda.

    This Torban bhakta accepts and rejects simultaneously Srila Prabhupada’s VANI.

    For example Torban writes on the SUN Sampadaya with the title ANOTHER HOLE IN THE RITVIK-BOAT

    Nothing has changed – It is all foolishness ( for which he provides the link to prove his claim cunningly ) ,

    and simply ends his writing by quoting ; ” There is no question of changing. It is on the process.”

    Torban bhakta dares to accept incompletely the quote from Srila Prabhupada’s lecture in a half hazard manners whatever it suits his Anti – Ritvik agenda and rejects to quote its COMPLETE CONTENTS simply to MISLEAD the Readers.

    In his every writings, he does it. He is a LIAR, a CHEATER himself because he follows CHEATERS not Srila Prabhupada as it may appear so.

    Please read on further where Torban ends his writing incompletely on the link provided in his writing on Sun Sampardaya.

    A part of the further writing of Srila Prabhupada is reproduced from this link ;https://old.prabhupadavani.org/main/Bhagavatam/320.html
    here below for your ready reference as to prove that HOW Torban bhakta cunningly propagate his Anti – Ritvik Agenda.

    ” So change… Srsti-sthiti-pralaya, srsti-sthiti-pralaya. There are three kinds of changes. First of all change is the srsti. Srsti means creation, creation. This material world… There was no material world. Simply there was spiritual world. Just like when all of a sudden cloud appears in the sky. The sky was there, the cloud has appeared. Similarly, this material creation is like that. It is just like a cloud in the vast spiritual ocean, sky. The sky is spiritual. This sky in which we are now existing, that is not spiritual. Just like the sky, covered by the clouds, is the same sky, but it is covered. Similarly, we are living within the covered sky, and if you penetrate the cover, then you go to the spiritual sky. While going to the spiritual sky, you have to give up your body. ”

    Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.

    Reply
    • Balaram das says:

      25. January 2018 at 11:51 pm

      Thank you Amar Puri & Mahesh Raj prabhus. Yes this malicious fool Torben is like the croaking frog, just waiting to be eaten by the snake of eternal time.

      I would not credit or associate him with the word ‘Bhakta’, and being so-called anti ritvik, who would this fool choose amongst the plethora of bogus kanguru wanna-bes!

      Both of them will to go to hell!
      “As for your next question, can only a few pure devotees deliver others, anyone, if he is a pure devotee he can deliver others, he can become Spiritual Master. But unless he is on that platform he should not attempt it. Then both of them will to go to hell, like blind men leading the blind. ( Srila Prabhupada in a letter to Tusta Krishna, December 14, 1972)”

      Reply