LET HIM MAKE HIS CHOICE

“one has to transmigrate through different species of life
(8,400,000) to come to human platform of life“

Let him make his choice
by Mahesh Raja

In this conversation Srila Prabhupada explains how the living entity gets another body according to his karma. And – one has to transmigrate through different species of life (8,400,000) to come to human platform of life. The whole bhakti-yoga process is therefore a revival of the lost relation. This revival is possible in the human form of life, which is obtained only out of the evolutionary cycle of 8,400,000 species of life.

Then in the human platform he can AGAIN decide – to take up Krsna Consciousness OR degrade to lower forms. How can these bogus Anti Ritvik gurus escape the jail of having to transmigrate to lower forms of life for MILLIONS of births???? There is NO ESCAPE from the laws of karma: as you sow; so shall ye reap.

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Prabhupāda: …from the ground. So the tree is the son, and the earth is the mother. So what is the wrong argument there? We have got experience that a child is coming from the womb of the mother. So why we should suggest a nonsense creation, that there was a chunk and there was a creation? What is this? Talk on this point. Where is your experience that all of a sudden a chunk dropped and there was creation? We have got experience that creation is there. Mother is there, and a child is coming. This is the creation. So wherefrom this idea comes, that without father and mother, creation is possible? What is his argument? He is great scientist. Let him…

Hṛdayānanda: Chief rascal.
Rādhāvallabha: They say that nature takes care of it all.

Prabhupāda: What? Then why nature did not take care of you? (laughter) Therefore you are rascal.

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda? The trees, they produce seeds, and the seed drops on the ground, and than another tree comes.
Prabhupāda: That’s all right,
Rāmeśvara: There’s no father. Simply…

Prabhupāda: There is no father. That I understand. But the tree is coming from the earth. So that is in anywhere. Just like the father gives the seed in the womb of the mother, and she produces the body and it comes out. The seed is coming from the father. And that is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: bījo’haṁ sarva-bhūtānām [Bg 7.10]. The seed comes from the father, that you cannot deny. Mother, without seed, cannot be pregnant and cannot give child. That is our experience. Nature is mother, and the seed is given by the father.

Rāmeśvara: In science, the biologists teach that there are small animals, very small, called amoebas. And when they reproduce, they simply divide themselves into two; there is no sex, there is no father.

Prabhupāda: That’s all right. So two or three or four or five coming from the life. The amoeba is a life. Not that from any stone it is coming. The life is coming from life. But in a different way.

Rādhāvallabha: Previously the scientists used to say that they would put dirty laundry and rotten garbage in a box. Then a few weeks later they would find rats. So they said that rats are made from garbage. So then everyone—this was presented as a very laughable theory. And then the next theory that was presented as the actual one was that life came from chemicals.

Prabhupāda: First of all, life comes from rats (laughs). Every year, they are changing their theories.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Actually, their philosophy came from rats.

Prabhupāda: Hmm? What is that philosophy? Rat philosophy? This is called vṛścika-taṇḍula-nyāya in Sanskrit. The scorpion is coming from the stock of rice. Actually, the scorpions they lay egg within the stock of rice, and by fermentation the eggs become scorpion and come out. Not that the rice is producing scorpion.

Rādhāvallabha: The scientists know about that, and they say yes, that is very laughable, primitive. But their new theory is simply that life comes from chemicals. So it is actually the same thing.

Hṛdayānanda: Yes, because life is also chemicals.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But the fact is that they cannot even manufacture a tiny seed which will fructify.

Prabhupāda: Yes, let them manufacture a seed. From that seed a big tree will come.

Rāmeśvara: They cannot do that.
Prabhupāda: Then?

Candanācārya: Some devotees are saying that cockroaches are coming from the vapors of impure things.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they come. That is called sveda-ja. Just like from perspiration, bugs are coming out. Sveda-ja.

Rādhāvallabha: So isn’t that life coming from matter?

Prabhupāda: Not matter. From matter is not coming, but they are taking birth.

Hari-śauri: That’s the atmosphere that they get born into.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rādhāvallabha: So are they coming from eggs, or how are they coming? Just the soul enters the dirt?

Prabhupāda: No. Just like it is a suitable circumstance from which the living entity makes his body.

Rādhāvallabha: But how has the cockroach been formed?

Prabhupāda: Just like embryo. The living entity comes of the two secretions of father and mother emulsified. It creates a situation so that he can stay there and develop a body.

Rādhāvallabha: But it requires some emanation from a cockroach body in order to create another cockroach body. So how can a cockroach body be created from vapors without contact of another cockroach?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Vapor does not create. The individual soul comes there according to his karma and, in that condition, he develops his body. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye [SB 3.31.1].

Rāmeśvara: So the seed of…. The soul is within the vapor?

Prabhupāda: The seed, when it is put into the earth, a situation is created so the soul can develop into a tree.

Rādhāvallabha: But how would the soul develop a particular body…?

Prabhupāda: That is Yamarāja is…. We are reading the Yamarāja incident(?). That’s all.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Just like how can a living entity take birth in the fire?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The argument is that how can an entity take birth in perspiration? His question. So how can a living entity take birth in the fire? Mostly our experience is that entities are taking birth from the earth, but according to the understanding…

Prabhupāda: So how the fishes are born in the water? How the other living entities, they remain in the air? Or without air? There are five elements: earth, water, fire, air…. Anywhere, the living entities can take birth. Sarva-ga. Sthāṇur sarva-gataḥ acalo ‘yam. You read all these words of Bhagavad-gītā. Sarva-ga. From anywhere, he can take birth.

Devotee: Do the living entities who are born from perspiration require a mother and father?

Prabhupāda: No. No. There is mother. That perspiration is mother.

Rādhāvallabha: So the reason why they get a particular body…

Prabhupāda: And the father is God.

Rādhāvallabha: So they are just getting a particular body just due to Yamarāja.

Prabhupāda: Yes, according to the decision of the Yamarāja, he has to get a particular type of body.

Rādhāvallabha: The scientists don’t know this.
Hari-śauri: It’s very confusing, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Confusing must be. How you can understand the subtle laws of God? You have dull brain, with cow dung. (laughs) You cannot understand.

Arcita: So according to the Christians, Śrīla Prabhupāda, Jesus Christ was born without contact of any material father. He was divinely placed in the womb of Mary.

Prabhupāda: That’s all right. Divinely placed by the Father is God. That’s all. You cannot deny the fact. And he claims: “I am son of God.” Then, what is the argument?

Arcita: Is there any such experience in the Vedic literatures, Śrīla Prabhupāda? An example we can cite also?

Prabhupāda: No, no, Vedic literature, apart from. Your argument, that without father, how it is without father? Without father, there is no question of birth; without mother, there is no question of birth. Our point is that without father there is no creation.

Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda, when a living entity is in an animal body, and when he quits his body, there’s no karma, he’s just automatically promoted to a higher body?

Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: So then…

Prabhupāda: Animal life means there is no sin. It is promotion. Because they are animal, their consciousness is not developed. Just like a child—a child, if he steals, that is not sin. He will not be criminally charged. He is child. A dog goes left to the right or right to the…. He is not criminal. But if you do, you are criminal.

Rāmeśvara: So Yamarāja does not direct the movements of the living entities as they are going automatically from animal body to higher body.

Prabhupāda: An animal is not jurisdiction of Yamarāja. The man is in the jurisdiction of…. Just like law is meant for man, not for the cats and dogs.

Rāmeśvara: So what determines the different varieties of dogs and cats if they are just automatically being…?

Prabhupāda: Not automatically. You are man. If you develop a dog’s mentality, the Yamarāja puts you in the dog’s body. And then you again develop, come to the man’s body. That means your term of imprisonment finished. You become again man. Now again decide. And again if you become a dog’s mentality, again go. This is going on.

Rādhāvallabha: The different varieties of suffering within the animal species are due to the different varieties of sinful activities in the human life?

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they, then they automatically come. Just as your term of imprisonment, by day’s gone, it is finished, again you are free. Similarly, by natural development from dogs or cockroaches or from this or that, there is a process of development. You come to the human form of body. Then again you decide whether you go down or you go back to home, back to Godhead. That is your choice. If you want to go down, go again. Otherwise, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9], come here. So make your choice.

Rāmeśvara: So the living entity who is in the lower body like insects or plants…

Prabhupāda: Yes. They will come automatically to the human form of body, by promotion.

Rāmeśvara: And he passes through all the species?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Rāmeśvara: So he has no desire to fly, but still he passes through bird species.

Prabhupāda: No, just like child is taken care of. Child does not know what he is doing, but the father, mother, taking care of.

Hari-śauri: He’s taken through stages.

Prabhupāda: So mother nature takes care to bring him again to the grown-up youthful life. Now you make your decision. So, if you don’t make your decision, the knowledge is there, the books are there, if you don’t make your decision, still you want to remain as cats and dogs, again begin.

Devotee: Do most humans go down to the animal species again after human life?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Do most human beings fall down into the animal species?

Prabhupāda: Not necessarily. He can become a stool worm. (laughter)

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what is the value for the living entity to automatically pass through all these different species? Does he get any knowledge?

Prabhupāda: To, to finish his life of imprisonment.

Rāmeśvara: How is it benefiting him?

Prabhupāda: He’s corrected. Benefit is he’s corrected. After undergoing so many species of life, he is corrected and again he is brought to the human form of life, civilized form of life. Let him make his choice. If he again makes his choice, go down to become a stool worm. Go! That is nature’s…. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi-guṇa, according to qualities he has taken. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā: [Bg. 3.27] the rascal, being proud, “Now I have got this life, civilized life. I can do whatever I like to. Ah, there is no God.” Then God comes as death and puts you again to become a worm in stool. That’s all.

https://prabhupadabooks.com/conversations/1976/jun/morning_walk/los_angeles/june/08/1976