Note: these severe offenders who have pretended to be Diksa guru by replacing Srila Prabhupada and his Ritvik System as per July 9th 1977 instruction are not getting away – their offenses are increased thousand times in holy dhama. SRI ISOPANISAD CONFIRMS THAT THESE PSEUDO RELIGIONISTS ARE HEADING TOWARD THE MOST OBNOXIOUS PLACE IN THE UNIVERSE AFTER THE COMPLETION OF THEIR SPIRITUAL MASTER BUSINESS, WHICH THEY CONDUCT SIMPLY FOR SENSE GRATIFICATION.
If you discuss on the philosophy of Upaniṣad and Vedānta, they’ll not attend. I have seen it. In Rādhā-kuṇḍa, sometime in 1934, my Guru Mahārāja was living, and he was discussing Upaniṣad. He was discussing Upaniṣad regularly. And the bābājīs… There are many bābājīs in Rādhā-kuṇḍa. First of all, they came, that “Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura has come, such a learned scholar and the establisher of Gauḍīya Maṭha.” So out of curiosity they came. And when they saw that he was discussing Upaniṣad, gradually they stopped coming. So my Guru Mahārāja recommended that “These people are not living in Rādhā-kuṇḍa. They are living in Nāraka-kuṇḍa.” I have heard it personally.
https://prabhupadabooks.com/classes/sb/6/3/20-23/gorakhpur/february/14/1971
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Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, some devotees, sometimes they feel that in ISKCON we’re talking so much about the business of how to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but we’re not talking enough about Kṛṣṇa’s pastimes, kṛṣṇa-kathā, they say. So that’s another reason why they want to read all these pastimes.
Prabhupāda: Then let them read. What kind of kṛṣṇa-kathā? The kṛṣṇa-kathā test is as soon as he’ll get the taste, he’ll lose this taste. That is the…. What is this nonsense?
Rāmeśvara: Won’t it purify them? That’s what they say, “It will purify me.”
Prabhupāda: What you are purified? You have become a, what is called, putrefied, not purified.
Devotees: Jaya, Prabhupāda.
Rāmeśvara: You can become purified, and sometimes you can increase your…
Prabhupāda: No, no. You can read. Be purified. You can read. But where is your purification?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Putrefaction.
Prabhupāda: The books are there for reading. By reading, you become purified. [break] In 1935, our Guru Mahārāja, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, he went to Rādhā-kuṇḍa for kārttika-vrata. So at that time he was reading Upaniṣads. So first of all, these bābājīs they were coming. Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī had come at Rādhā-kuṇḍa. He’s giving some class. So they used to come. But as soon as they saw that he was reading Upaniṣads, they stopped coming. They saw: “They are jñānīs, they are not bhaktas.”
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What did they want to hear? Daśama-skandha?
Prabhupāda: Like that. So Prabhupāda condemned them that “They are not living in Rādhā-kuṇḍa. They’re living in Naraka-kuṇḍa.” I heard it, “They’re living in Naraka-kuṇḍa.”
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So our men who go to Rādhā-kuṇḍa and live there…
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: They’re risking living in Naraka-kuṇḍa.
https://prabhupadabooks.com/conversations/1976/jun/morning_walk/los_angeles/june/07/1976
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So you are all fortunate. You have come to Vṛndāvana, perhaps for the first time in life. So it is very good opportunity. Vṛndāvana-dhāma. Aprākṛta, cintāmaṇi. Similarly, you are coming from Navadvīpa. That is also cintāmaṇi-dhāma [Bs. 5.29]. These two dhāma, places, are not ordinary places. Don’t make dhāma-aparādha. As there are offenses against chanting the holy name, similarly, there are offenses in dhāma, that in the dhāma one should not perform any sinful activities in the dhāma. In the dhāma, if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then it increases thousand times. Similarly, in the dhāma, if you commit offenses, it increases thousand times. So dhāma, one should be very careful not to commit any sinful activities. Illicit sex, or intoxication, meat-eating and gambling—these are the sinful activities. So Vṛndāvana-dhāma, aprākṛta dhāma. Those who are attached to viṣaya, sense gratification, they cannot see what is Vṛndāvana. They cannot see what is Vṛndāvana. They cannot understand what is Kṛṣṇa and Rādhā, those who are viṣayī. Viṣaya means āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca. This is viṣaya, material objectives. They cannot. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura sings,
viṣaya chāḍiyā kabe śuddha ha’be mana
kabe hāma herava śrī-vṛndāvana
Visaya chadiya, one who has become detestful to this material enjoyment, they can see what is Vṛndāvana. Those who are attached to material enjoyment, they cannot see what is Vṛndāvana. These are the process.
rūpa-raghunātha-pade haibe ākuti
kabe hāma bujhabo sei yugala-pīriti
https://prabhupadabooks.com/classes/general/vrndavana/march/14/1974
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Isopanisad 12
The Lord states that as soon as one reaches Him by devotional service–which is the one and only way to approach the Personality of Godhead–one attains complete freedom from the bondage of birth and death. In other words, the path of salvation from the material clutches fully depends on the principles of knowledge and detachment gained from serving the Lord. The pseudo religionists have neither knowledge nor detachment from material affairs, for most of them want to live in the golden shackles of material bondage under the shadow of philanthropic activities disguised as religious principles. BY A FALSE DISPLAY OF RELIGIOUS SENTIMENTS, THEY PRESENT A SHOW OF DEVOTIONAL SERVICE WHILE INDULGING IN ALL SORTS OF IMMORAL ACTIVITIES. IN THIS WAY THEY PASS AS SPIRITUAL MASTERS AND DEVOTEES OF GOD. Such violators of religious principles have no respect for the authoritative acaryas, the holy teachers in the strict disciplic succession. THEY IGNORE THE VEDIC INJUNCTION ACARYOPASANA–“ONE MUST WORSHIP THE ACARYA”–and Krsna’s statement in the Bhagavad-gita (4.2) evam parampara-praptam, “This supreme science of God is received through the disciplic succession.” INSTEAD, TO MISLEAD THE PEOPLE IN GENERAL THEY THEMSELVES BECOME SO-CALLED ACARYAS, BUT THEY DO NOT EVEN FOLLOW THE PRINCIPLES OF THE ACARYAS.
THESE ROGUES ARE THE MOST DANGEROUS ELEMENTS IN HUMAN SOCIETY. BECAUSE THERE IS NO RELIGIOUS GOVERNMENT, THEY ESCAPE PUNISHMENT BY THE LAW OF THE STATE. THEY CANNOT, HOWEVER, ESCAPE THE LAW OF THE SUPREME, WHO HAS CLEARLY DECLARED IN THE BHAGAVAD-GITA THAT ENVIOUS DEMONS IN THE GARB OF RELIGIOUS PROPAGANDISTS SHALL BE THROWN INTO THE DARKEST REGIONS OF HELL (BG. 16.19-20). SRI ISOPANISAD CONFIRMS THAT THESE PSEUDO RELIGIONISTS ARE HEADING TOWARD THE MOST OBNOXIOUS PLACE IN THE UNIVERSE AFTER THE COMPLETION OF THEIR SPIRITUAL MASTER BUSINESS, WHICH THEY CONDUCT SIMPLY FOR SENSE GRATIFICATION.
(by Mahesh Raja)
What does it refer to ” …AFTER THE COMPLETION OF THEIR SPIRITUAL MASTER BUSINESS,….” ?, Mahesh Raja Prabhu.
Amar Prabhu read below:
Isopanisad 12
The Lord states that as soon as one reaches Him by devotional service–which is the one and only way to approach the Personality of Godhead–one attains complete freedom from the bondage of birth and death. In other words, the path of salvation from the material clutches fully depends on the principles of knowledge and detachment gained from serving the Lord. The pseudo religionists have neither knowledge nor detachment from material affairs, for most of them want to live in the golden shackles of material bondage under the shadow of philanthropic activities disguised as religious principles. BY A FALSE DISPLAY OF RELIGIOUS SENTIMENTS, THEY PRESENT A SHOW OF DEVOTIONAL SERVICE WHILE INDULGING IN ALL SORTS OF IMMORAL ACTIVITIES. IN THIS WAY THEY PASS AS SPIRITUAL MASTERS AND DEVOTEES OF GOD. Such violators of religious principles have no respect for the authoritative acaryas, the holy teachers in the strict disciplic succession. THEY IGNORE THE VEDIC INJUNCTION ACARYOPASANA–“ONE MUST WORSHIP THE ACARYA”–and Krsna’s statement in the Bhagavad-gita (4.2) evam parampara-praptam, “This supreme science of God is received through the disciplic succession.” INSTEAD, TO MISLEAD THE PEOPLE IN GENERAL THEY THEMSELVES BECOME SO-CALLED ACARYAS, BUT THEY DO NOT EVEN FOLLOW THE PRINCIPLES OF THE ACARYAS.
THESE ROGUES ARE THE MOST DANGEROUS ELEMENTS IN HUMAN SOCIETY. BECAUSE THERE IS NO RELIGIOUS GOVERNMENT, THEY ESCAPE PUNISHMENT BY THE LAW OF THE STATE. THEY CANNOT, HOWEVER, ESCAPE THE LAW OF THE SUPREME, WHO HAS CLEARLY DECLARED IN THE BHAGAVAD-GITA THAT ENVIOUS DEMONS IN THE GARB OF RELIGIOUS PROPAGANDISTS SHALL BE THROWN INTO THE DARKEST REGIONS OF HELL (BG. 16.19-20). SRI ISOPANISAD CONFIRMS THAT THESE PSEUDO RELIGIONISTS ARE HEADING TOWARD THE MOST OBNOXIOUS PLACE IN THE UNIVERSE AFTER THE COMPLETION OF THEIR SPIRITUAL MASTER BUSINESS, WHICH THEY CONDUCT SIMPLY FOR SENSE GRATIFICATION.
Note: Krsna KNOWS who is His DEVOTEE and who is just after SPIRITUAL MASTER BUSINESS, WHICH THEY CONDUCT SIMPLY FOR SENSE GRATIFICATION. There is no fooling Lord Krsna. The Holy Name IS lord Krsna. So if some bogus gurus think they can chant the Holy Name *Hare Krshna* at death while in their life they INSULTED Srila Prabhupada by usurping his Diksa Guru position and denying the Ritvik System(as per July 9th 1977 Order) can only chant the alphabet but NOT the ACTUAL Holy name:
Antya 3.59 T The Glories of Srila Haridasa Thakura
namera aksara-sabera ei ta’ svabhava
vyavahita haile na chade apana-prabhava
SYNONYMS
namera–of the holy name; aksara–letters; sabera–of all; ei–this; ta’–certainly; sva-bhava–the characteristic; vyavahita haile–even when improperly uttered; na–do not; chade–give up; apana-prabhava–their own spiritual influence.
TRANSLATION
“The letters of the holy name have so much spiritual potency that they act even when uttered improperly.
PURPORT
SRILA BHAKTISIDDHANTA SARASVATI THAKURA STATES THAT THE WORD VYAVAHITA (“IMPROPERLY UTTERED”) IS NOT USED HERE TO REFER TO THE MUNDANE VIBRATION OF THE LETTERS OF THE ALPHABET. SUCH NEGLIGENT UTTERANCE FOR THE SENSE GRATIFICATION OF MATERIALISTIC PERSONS IS NOT A VIBRATION OF TRANSCENDENTAL SOUND. Utterance of the holy name while one engages in sense gratification is an impediment on the path toward achieving ecstatic love for Krsna. On the other hand, if one who is eager for devotional service utters the holy name even partially or improperly, the holy name, who is identical with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, exhibits its spiritual potency because of that person’s offenseless utterance. Thus one is relieved from all unwanted practices, and one gradually awakens his dormant love for Krsna.
Note: chanting WITHOUT offenses are saved from Yamaraja punishment:
SB 6.3 Summary Yamaraja Instructs His Messengers
Yamaraja continued, “The essence of sanatana-dharma, or eternal religion, is extremely confidential. No one but the Lord Himself can deliver that confidential religious system to human society. It is by the mercy of the Lord that the transcendental system of religion can be understood by His pure devotees, and specifically by the twelve mahajanas–Lord Brahma, Narada Muni, Lord Siva, the Kumaras, Kapila, Manu, Prahlada, Janaka, Bhisma, Bali, Sukadeva Gosvami and me. Other learned scholars, headed by Jaimini, are almost always covered by the illusory energy, and therefore they are more or less attracted by the flowery language of the three Vedas, namely Rg, Yajur and Sama, which are called trayi. Instead of becoming pure devotees, people captivated by the flowery words of these three Vedas are interested in the Vedic ritualistic ceremonies. They cannot understand the glories of chanting the holy name of the Lord. Intelligent persons, however, take to the devotional service of the Lord. WHEN THEY CHANT THE HOLY NAME OF THE LORD WITHOUT OFFENSES, THEY ARE NO LONGER SUBJECT TO MY RULINGS. IF BY CHANCE THEY COMMIT SOME SINFUL ACT, THEY ARE PROTECTED BY THE HOLY NAME OF THE LORD BECAUSE THAT IS WHERE THEIR INTEREST LIES.
Note: if they spend life in OPPOSING Srila Prabhupada by denying July 9th 1977 Ritvik System then they can NOT remember Krsna at death:
Bg 8.10 P Attaining the Supreme
The particular use of the word yoga-balena is significant in this verse because without practice of yoga one cannot come to this transcendental state of being at the time of death. ONE CANNOT SUDDENLY REMEMBER THE SUPREME LORD AT DEATH UNLESS HE IS PRACTICED IN SOME YOGA SYSTEM, ESPECIALLY THE SYSTEM OF BHAKTI-YOGA. Since one’s mind at death is very disturbed, one should practice transcendence through yoga during one’s life.
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Note: those that are saved by Lord Krsna are given the facility to remember him at death. BUT this is NOT for those who INSULT Srila Prabhupada by usurping his Diksa guru position by denying the Ritvik System of July 9th 1977:
750915SB.VRN Lectures
If at the time of death one can chant Hare Krsna, then he is glorious. Nasty atra samsayah. Here is clearly said in the Bhagavad-gita, nasty atra. Anta-kale: “At the time of…” I have several times said, the test will be examined at the time of death. They say in Bengal, bhajan koro pujan koro murte janle haya.(?) Your austerity, penances, chanting of the holy name, all these things… Just like there is examination. Before promotion to the higher class, one is examined in the school, and the, if the marks are sufficient, then he is promoted. So our promotion will depend at the time of death, where we are going. Tatha dehantara-praptih. We are going to change our… Death means we are going to change our body. So this change of body will be decided at the time of death. It is already decided what kind of body we are going to get, but the final decision will be taken at the time of death. That is said by Krsna. So how the test… You… Everyone can understand. IF AT THE TIME OF DEATH ONE CHANTS HARE KRSNA, THEN YOU KNOW CERTAINLY THAT HE HAS GONE TO VAIKUNTHA. THERE IS NO DOUBT ABOUT IT. ANTA-KALE. AND EVEN THERE IS APARADHA, THAT IS NOT TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION, BECAUSE AT THE TIME OF DEATH HE HAS UTTERED. THIS IS SPECIAL CONSIDERATION. ANTA-KALE.
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Note: those who have insulted Lord Krsna Pure Devotee Srila Prabhupada by occupying his Diksa guru position disobeying July 9th 1977 Ritvik instruction means they will NOT be forgiven. Lord Krsna does NOT excuse them:
If you insult His devotee, the devotee may excuse, but Kṛṣṇa will not excuse. This is Kṛṣṇa’s position. Therefore be careful to insult a devotee. A devotee may excuse you. But Kṛṣṇa will not excuse you. Kṛṣṇa is so strict. He cannot tolerate any insult to His devotee. Therefore this arrangement of fighting.
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/classes/bg/1/26-27/london/july/21/1973
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Note: Vaiṣṇava-aparādha is NEVER tolerated by Kṛṣṇa:
Prabhupāda: Durvāsā. Durvāsā Muni offended Vaiṣṇava, and immediately sudarśana-cakra came to kill Durvāsā. Vaiṣṇava-aparādha is never tolerated by Kṛṣṇa. Just like the Pāṇḍavas, they were Vaiṣṇavas, and the Duryodhana and company, they were so-called Vaiṣṇava. Actually they were not Vaiṣṇava. So they insulted. They put to trouble so many ways. They banished them in the jungle. They insulted their wife and so many ways by clique. So Kṛṣṇa could not tolerate that. So therefore the Battle of Kurukṣetra.
So Vaiṣṇava is kind. Arjuna, he said, “My dear Kṛṣṇa, whatever they have done, that doesn’t matter. I cannot kill my family men. Please excuse.” So just see. Arjuna is kind because he is Vaiṣṇava. But Kṛṣṇa cannot tolerate. Kṛṣṇa said, “You must kill them. That is My order. You must kill them.” Then he argued with Kṛṣṇa in so many ways: “There will be so much sin. There will be this, there will be that.” Then He preached Bhagavad-gītā, and at last He said that “Arjuna, you are thinking that you shall, by not fighting, you shall be able to save your family men, kinsmen. That is not possible. That is not possible. They are already killed. It is all My plan. They will never return home. If you kill them, then you take the credit. But otherwise, they are already killed. And if you think that you will not kill them, they will be saved, that is not possible. That is not possible.” Then Arjuna understood that “It is the determination of Kṛṣṇa that they must be killed. Then why shall I disobey His order? It is my business to serve Him. Yes, then I shall kill, if You have so decided.”
So this is the fact, that Kṛṣṇa will never tolerate insult on a devotee. He will never tolerate. The devotee may excuse, tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā. He may suffer. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja, he was suffering. His father was torturing him. He was suffering, “All right.” But Kṛṣṇa never tolerated. “Oh, you have done so much. Now it is the time to kill him.” This is the process. Kṛṣṇa will tolerate. Even you insult Kṛṣṇa, He will tolerate. But if you insult His devotee, He will never tolerate. Then you are finished. Then you are finished. Just like a big man. If you insult him, he may think “All right, let him.” But if you insult or do something harm to his child, he will never tolerate. He will never tolerate. Similarly, a devotee who is dependent on Kṛṣṇa in everything, and if somebody does harm to him, insults him, Kṛṣṇa will never tolerate. That is explained in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, vaiṣṇava-aparādha. Tāra madhye vaiṣṇava-aparādha hāti matta. So we should be very careful not to offend Vaiṣṇava devotees. Not to offend. This is greatest offense. Therefore it is said vipra-śāpa-vimūḍhānām. Vimūḍhānām. Those who are rascal, fools, they will want to try to insult real brāhmaṇa, Vaiṣṇava. Then they are finished. Of course, a Vaiṣṇava never curses. Tolerates. Tṛṇād api sunīcena taror… Vaiṣṇava tolerates, but Viṣṇu never tolerates.
Note: Since they INSULTED Srila Prabhupada by usurping his Diksa Guru position by replacing the July 9th 1977 directive, CHANGED his books,stole his Disciple,Temples, money Lord Krishna will NOT let them go: “IF YOU INSULT HIS DEVOTEE, THE DEVOTEE MAY EXCUSE, BUT KRSNA WILL NOT EXCUSE. THIS IS KRSNA’S POSITION.”
730721BG.LON Lectures
In the Bhagavad-gita you will find in the Fifteenth Chapter. Urdhva-mulam. Here, this material world, the origin–mulam means root–is upside, upside. Because it is reflection. This tree is erect, and this is reflection. So the root has gone upside. So here is the problem. Because we are attached to our this so-called family, society, friendship and love… When Arjuna was faced, then he became krpaya parayavisto visidann idam abravit. “How it is possible, Krsna, that I have to kill the other side, my fathers, my father-in-law, my grandfather, my sons, my grandsons, my brother, my so many friends?” So it is natural. Krpaya paraya avistah. He becomes overwhelmed with compassion. Krpaya parayavisto visidan. Very morosely. “Oh, Krsna, I will have to fight with them. I will have to kill them.” Why this consciousness came? The other side also, Duryodhana, why he did not think in that way? Why Arjuna is thinking? Because he is devotee. That is the difference. A devotee thinks like that. A devotee does not like to kill anyone, even an ant. Why he should be encouraged to kill his friends? A devotee is like that. Yasyasti bhaktir bhagavaty akincana sarvair gunais tatra samasate surah. This is the result of devotional life. Arjuna was insulted. Arjuna was taken away all his belongings. Arjuna was banished for thirteen years. His wife was insulted. So many atrocities was done to him. Still, when the question of killing came, he was not very happy: “No.” This is Vaisnava. This is Vaisnava. He is ready to excuse even the greatest enemy. BUT KRSNA DOES NOT WANT. IF YOU INSULT HIS DEVOTEE, THE DEVOTEE MAY EXCUSE, BUT KRSNA WILL NOT EXCUSE. THIS IS KRSNA’S POSITION. THEREFORE BE CAREFUL TO INSULT A DEVOTEE. A DEVOTEE MAY EXCUSE YOU. BUT KRSNA WILL NOT EXCUSE YOU. KRSNA IS SO STRICT. HE CANNOT TOLERATE ANY INSULT TO HIS DEVOTEE. THEREFORE THIS ARRANGEMENT OF FIGHTING. Arjuna wanted, “No, let them be excused.” Krsna wanted, “No, you must fight. You must kill them.” This is the position. So he is within the dilemma. Krsna is insisting that “You must fight and kill them,” but he is thinking, “How shall I kill my kinsmen?” This is the problem. Therefore, tan samiksya sa kaunteyah sarvan bandhun avasthitan. All friends are there. Krpaya parayavisto visidann idam abravit. So this is one side, that if you want to please Krsna, then you have to be prepared for killing your so-called relatives. If you want Krsna. If you want to please Krsna
Antya 3.164 T The Glories of Srila Haridasa Thakura
mahantera apamana ye desa-grame haya
eka janara dose saba desa ujadaya
SYNONYMS
mahantera–of persons who are highly advanced in spiritual life; apamana–disrespect; ye desa-grame–in which country or village; haya–is; eka janara–of one man; dose–for the fault; saba desa–the whole country; ujadaya–becomes afflicted.
TRANSLATION
Wherever an advanced devotee is insulted, for one man’s fault the entire town OR PLACE IS AFFLICTED.
SB 1.13.59 P Dhrtarastra Quits Home
Vidura was astonished to see the marvelous departure of his brother Dhrtarastra as a liberated yogi, for in his past life he was much attached to materialism. Of course it was only due to Vidura that his brother attained the desirable goal of life. Vidura was therefore glad to learn about it. BUT HE WAS SORRY THAT HE COULD NOT MAKE HIS BROTHER TURN INTO A PURE DEVOTEE. THIS WAS NOT DONE BY VIDURA BECAUSE OF DHRTARASTRA’S BEING INIMICAL TO THE PANDAVAS, WHO WERE ALL DEVOTEES OF THE LORD. AN OFFENSE AT THE FEET OF A VAISNAVA IS MORE DANGEROUS THAN AN OFFENSE AT THE LOTUS FEET OF THE LORD. VIDURA WAS CERTAINLY VERY LIBERAL TO BESTOW MERCY UPON HIS BROTHER DHRTARASTRA, WHOSE PAST LIFE WAS VERY MATERIALISTIC. BUT ULTIMATELY THE RESULT OF SUCH MERCY CERTAINLY DEPENDED ON THE WILL OF THE SUPREME LORD IN THE PRESENT LIFE; THEREFORE DHRTARASTRA ATTAINED LIBERATION ONLY, AND AFTER MANY SUCH LIBERATED STATES OF LIFE ONE CAN ATTAIN TO THE STAGE OF DEVOTIONAL SERVICE. Vidura was certainly very mortified by the death of his brother and sister-in-law, and the only remedy to mitigate such lamentation was to go out to pilgrimage. Thus Maharaja Yudhisthira had no chance to call back Vidura, his surviving uncle.
SB 2.2.30 P The Lord in the Heart
(1) Offense by one at the feet of a pure devotee may be likened to the mad elephant who devastates a very good garden if it enters.
SB 3.15.39 P Description of the Kingdom of God
When the Lord came, He was pleased with everyone; therefore it is stated here, krtsna-prasada-sumukham. The Lord knew that even the offensive doormen were His pure devotees, although by chance they committed an offense at the feet of other devotees. To commit an offense against a devotee is very dangerous in devotional service. LORD CAITANYA THEREFORE SAID THAT AN OFFENSE TO A DEVOTEE IS JUST LIKE A MAD ELEPHANT RUN LOOSE; WHEN A MAD ELEPHANT ENTERS A GARDEN, IT TRAMPLES ALL THE PLANTS. SIMILARLY, AN OFFENSE UNTO THE FEET OF A PURE DEVOTEE MURDERS ONE’S POSITION IN DEVOTIONAL SERVICE.
SB 7.4.28 P Hiranyakasipu Terrorizes the Universe
Of all sinful activities, an offense to a pure devotee, or Vaisnava, is the most severe. An offense at the lotus feet of a Vaisnava is so disastrous that Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu has compared it to a mad elephant that enters a garden and causes great havoc by uprooting many plants and trees. If one is an offender at the lotus feet of a brahmana or Vaisnava, his offenses uproot all his auspicious activities. One should therefore very carefully guard against committing vaisnava-aparadha, or offenses at the lotus feet of a Vaisnava. Here the Lord clearly says that although Hiranyakasipu had received benedictions from Lord Brahma, these benedictions would be null and void as soon as he committed an offense at the lotus feet of Prahlada Maharaja, his own son. A Vaisnava like Prahlada Maharaja is described herein as nirvaira, having no enemies. Elsewhere in Srimad-Bhagavatam (3.25.21) it is said, ajata-satravah santah sadhavah sadhu-bhusanah: a devotee has no enemies, he is peaceful, he abides by the scriptures, and all his characteristics are sublime. A DEVOTEE DOES NOT CREATE ENMITY WITH ANYONE, BUT IF SOMEONE BECOMES HIS ENEMY, THAT PERSON WILL BE VANQUISHED BY THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD, DESPITE WHATEVER BENEDICTIONS HE MAY HAVE RECEIVED FROM OTHER SOURCES. HIRANYAKASIPU WAS CERTAINLY ENJOYING THE FRUITFUL RESULTS OF HIS AUSTERITIES, BUT HERE THE LORD SAYS THAT AS SOON AS HE COMMITTED AN OFFENSE AT THE LOTUS FEET OF PRAHLADA MAHARAJA HE WOULD BE RUINED. ONE’S LONGEVITY, OPULENCE, BEAUTY, EDUCATION AND WHATEVER ELSE ONE MAY POSSESS AS A RESULT OF PIOUS ACTIVITIES CANNOT PROTECT ONE IF ONE COMMITS AN OFFENSE AT THE LOTUS FEET OF A VAISNAVA. DESPITE WHATEVER ONE POSSESSES, IF ONE OFFENDS THE LOTUS FEET OF A VAISNAVA HE WILL BE VANQUISHED.
Adi 17.51 T The Pastimes of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu in His Youth
are papi, bhakta-dvesi, tore na uddharimu
koti-janma ei mate kidaya khaoyaimu
SYNONYMS
are–O; papi–you sinful person; bhakta-dvesi–envious of devotees; tore–you; na uddharimu–I shall not deliver; koti-janma–for ten million births; ei mate–in this way; kidaya–by the germs; khaoyaimu–I shall cause you to be bitten.
TRANSLATION
“O sinful person, envious of pure devotees, I shall not deliver you! Rather, I shall have you bitten by these germs for many millions of years.
PURPORT
We should note herein that all our sufferings in this material world, especially from disease, are due to our past sinful activities. And of all sinful activities, actions directed against a pure devotee out of sheer envy are considered extremely severe. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu wanted Gopala Capala to understand the cause of his suffering. ANY PERSON WHO DISTURBS A PURE DEVOTEE ENGAGED IN BROADCASTING THE HOLY NAME OF THE LORD IS CERTAINLY PUNISHED LIKE GOPALA CAPALA. This is the instruction of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. As we shall see, one who offends a pure devotee can never satisfy Caitanya Mahaprabhu unless and until he sincerely regrets his offense and thus rectifies it.
Note: even for devotees PROVIDED they repent they are STILL punished but short cut BECAUSE they are devotees: BUT “Nondevotee must be punished”. Those who KNOWINGLY DEFY Srila Prabhupada’s July 9th 1977 Ritvik directive they are NON DEVOTEES:
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Hṛdayānanda: You said that by committing sinful activities one has to be punished by the laws of nature. So if one is repentant is he still punished?
Prabhupāda: Yes, provided he is actually repentant.
Hṛdayānanda: Then he is not punished?
Prabhupāda: Punished, but short cut. Karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām [Bs. 5.54]. That is for the devotees, not for the nondevotee. Nondevotee must be punished. [break]
AFTER THE COMPLETION OF THEIR SPIRITUAL MASTER BUSINESS REFERS TO THAT WHEN THE SPIRITUAL MASTER IS NO LONGER PHYSICALLY AVAILABLE AND THUS, THOSE WHO ARE HIS DISCIPLES PASS AS SPIRITUAL MASTERS AND DEVOTEES OF GOD WITHOUT THE AUTHORIZATION OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER IN HIS PHYSICAL ABSENCE, AND THEY CONDUCT AS A BUSINESS SIMPLY FOR SENSE GRATIFICATION FOR THEMSELVES TO MISLEAD THE PEOPLE IN GENERAL THEY THEMSELVES BECOME SO-CALLED ACARYAS, BUT THEY DO NOT EVEN FOLLOW THE PRINCIPLES OF THE ACARYAS.
THESE ROGUES ARE THE MOST DANGEROUS ELEMENTS IN HUMAN SOCIETY AND THEY ARE AUTOMATICALLY DESTINE TO GO TO HELL AT THE TIME OF THEIR DEATH.
THAT IS WHAT IT REFERS TO; “AFTER THE COMPLETION OF THEIR SPIRITUAL MASTER BUSINESS “.
THANK YOU, PRABHU.
OM TAT SAT
HARE KRISHNA. ALL GLORIES TO SRILA PRABHUPADA.
Note: this is going to VERY interesting. Yamaraja will be waiting for them. These bogus Anti Ritvik gurus and accomplices who have DEFIED Srila Prabhupada’s July 9th 1977 Ritvik Instruction, stolen his disciples, changed his books,stolen the BBT,stolen the temples, given Srila Prabhupada poison – they are in for a VERY VERY VERY nasty shock:
681127BG.LA Lectures
Prabhupada: You are my disciple, I am your spiritual master, but you have got your individuality, I have got my individuality. If you don’t agree with me, you can leave me. That is your individuality. So if you don’t like Krsna, you cannot become in Krsna consciousness, that is your individuality. So this individuality continues. SIMILARLY KRSNA, IF HE DOES NOT LIKE YOU, HE MAY REFUSE YOU KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS. NOT THAT BECAUSE YOU ARE FOLLOWING ALL THE RULES AND REGULATIONS, KRSNA IS OBLIGED TO ACCEPT YOU. NO. IF HE THINKS THAT “HE’S NONSENSE; I CANNOT ACCEPT HIM,” HE’LL REJECT YOU.
KB 64 The Story of King Nrga
At this time, Lord Krsna was present among His relatives who were members of the ksatriya class. To teach them through the exemplary character of King Nrga, He said: “Even though a ksatriya king may be as powerful as fire, it is not possible for him to usurp the property of a brahmana and utilize it for his own purpose. If this is so, how can ordinary kings, who falsely think of themselves the most powerful beings within the material world, usurp a brahmana’s property? I do not think that taking poison is as dangerous as taking a brahmana’s property. For ordinary poison there is treatment–one can be relieved from its effects; but if one drinks the poison of taking a brahmana’s property, there is no remedy for the mistake. The perfect example was King Nrga. He was very powerful and very pious, but due to the small mistake of unknowingly usurping a brahmana’s cow, he was condemned to the abominable life of a lizard. Ordinary poison affects only those who drink it, and ordinary fire can be extinguished simply by pouring water on it; but the arani fire ignited by the spiritual potency of a brahmana can burn to ashes the whole family of a person who provokes such a brahmana.” (Formerly, the brahmanas used to ignite the fire of sacrifice not with matches or any other external fire but with their powerful mantras, called arani.) “IF SOMEONE EVEN TOUCHES A BRAHMANA’S PROPERTY, HE IS RUINED FOR THREE GENERATIONS. HOWEVER, IF A BRAHMANA’S PROPERTY IS FORCIBLY TAKEN AWAY, THE TAKER’S FAMILY FOR TEN GENERATIONS BEFORE HIM AND FOR TEN GENERATIONS AFTER HIM WILL BE SUBJECT TO RUINATION. On the other hand, if someone becomes a Vaisnava or devotee of the Lord, ten generations of his family before his birth and ten generations after will become liberated.”
Lord Krsna continued: “If some foolish king who is puffed up by his wealth, prestige and power wants to usurp a brahmana’s property, it should be understood that such a king is clearing his path to hell; he does not know how much he has to suffer for such unwise action. If someone takes away the property of a very liberal brahmana who is encumbered by a large dependent family, then such a usurper is put into the hell known as Kumbhipaka; not only is he put into this hell, but his family members also have to accept such a miserable condition of life. A PERSON WHO TAKES AWAY PROPERTY WHICH HAS EITHER BEEN AWARDED TO A BRAHMANA OR GIVEN AWAY BY HIM IS CONDEMNED TO LIVE FOR AT LEAST 60,000 YEARS AS MISERABLY AS AN INSECT IN STOOL. Therefore I instruct you, all My boys and relatives present here, do not, even by mistake, take the possession of a brahmana and thereby pollute your whole family. IF SOMEONE EVEN WISHES TO POSSESS SUCH PROPERTY, LET ALONE ATTEMPTS TO TAKE IT AWAY BY FORCE, THE DURATION OF HIS LIFE WILL BE REDUCED. HE WILL BE DEFEATED BY HIS ENEMIES, AND AFTER BEING BEREFT OF HIS ROYAL POSITION, WHEN HE GIVES UP HIS BODY HE WILL BECOME A SERPENT. A serpant gives trouble to all other living entities. My dear boys and relatives, I therefore advise you that even if a brahmana becomes angry with you and calls you by ill names or cuts you, still you should not retaliate. On the contrary, you should smile, tolerate him and offer your respects to the brahmana. You know very well that even I Myself offer My obeisances to the brahmanas with great respect three times daily. You should therefore follow My instruction and example. I shall not forgive anyone who does not follow them, and I shall punish him. You should learn from the example of King Nrga that even if someone unknowingly usurps the property of a brahmana, he is put into a miserable condition of life.”
SB 3.1.43 P Questions by Vidura
As declared in Bhagavad-gita, the Lord appears in the mortal world to execute His much-needed mission of killing the miscreants and giving protection to the suffering faithful. In spite of that mission, Lord Krsna tolerated the insult to Draupadi by the Kurus and the injustices perpetrated against the Pandavas, as well as insults to Himself. THE QUESTION MAY BE RAISED, “WHY DID HE TOLERATE SUCH INJUSTICES AND INSULTS IN HIS PRESENCE? WHY DID HE NOT CHASTISE THE KURUS IMMEDIATELY?” WHEN DRAUPADI WAS INSULTED IN THE ASSEMBLY BY THE KURUS BY THEIR ATTEMPT TO SEE HER NAKED IN THE PRESENCE OF ALL, THE LORD PROTECTED DRAUPADI BY SUPPLYING AN UNLIMITED LENGTH OF CLOTHING. BUT HE DID NOT CHASTISE THE INSULTING PARTY IMMEDIATELY. THIS SILENCE OF THE LORD DID NOT MEAN, HOWEVER, THAT HE EXCUSED THE OFFENSES OF THE KURUS. THERE WERE MANY OTHER KINGS ON EARTH WHO HAD BECOME VERY PROUD OF THREE KINDS OF POSSESSIONS–WEALTH, EDUCATION AND FOLLOWERS–AND THEY WERE CONSTANTLY AGITATING THE EARTH BY MOVEMENTS OF MILITARY STRENGTH. THE LORD WAS JUST WAITING TO GET THEM TOGETHER ON THE BATTLEFIELD OF KURUKSETRA AND KILL THEM ALL AT ONE TIME, JUST TO MAKE A SHORT-CUT IN HIS KILLING MISSION.
730721BG.LON Lectures
So whatever we are seeing in this material world, the origin is in Krsna. But here it is perverted. That is the only difference. Just like a tree. The original tree is standing erect. But when you see the perverted reflection of the tree, everything is topsy-turvied. The upside has gone downside. You have seen the reflection of the tree. So the upside, downside. When the upside of the tree becomes downside, that is called perverted reflection. So this material world is perverted reflection of the spiritual world. It is false in this sense because it is reflection. Otherwise, exactly the same things are there in the spiritual world. Urdhva-mulam adhah-sakham asvattham prahur avyayam. There is. In the Bhagavad-gita you will find in the Fifteenth Chapter. Urdhva-mulam. Here, this material world, the origin–mulam means root–is upside, upside. Because it is reflection. This tree is erect, and this is reflection. So the root has gone upside. So here is the problem. Because we are attached to our this so-called family, society, friendship and love… When Arjuna was faced, then he became krpaya parayavisto visidann idam abravit. “How it is possible, Krsna, that I have to kill the other side, my fathers, my father-in-law, my grandfather, my sons, my grandsons, my brother, my so many friends?” So it is natural. Krpaya paraya avistah. He becomes overwhelmed with compassion. Krpaya parayavisto visidan. Very morosely. “Oh, Krsna, I will have to fight with them. I will have to kill them.” Why this consciousness came? The other side also, Duryodhana, why he did not think in that way? Why Arjuna is thinking? Because he is devotee. That is the difference. A devotee thinks like that. A devotee does not like to kill anyone, even an ant. Why he should be encouraged to kill his friends? A devotee is like that. Yasyasti bhaktir bhagavaty akincana sarvair gunais tatra samasate surah. This is the result of devotional life. Arjuna was insulted. Arjuna was taken away all his belongings. Arjuna was banished for thirteen years. His wife was insulted. So many atrocities was done to him. Still, when the question of killing came, he was not very happy: “No.” This is Vaisnava. This is Vaisnava. He is ready to excuse even the greatest enemy. But Krsna does not want. If you insult His devotee, the devotee may excuse, but Krsna will not excuse. This is Krsna’s position. Therefore be careful to insult a devotee. A DEVOTEE MAY EXCUSE YOU. BUT KRSNA WILL NOT EXCUSE YOU. KRSNA IS SO STRICT. HE CANNOT TOLERATE ANY INSULT TO HIS DEVOTEE. THEREFORE THIS ARRANGEMENT OF FIGHTING. Arjuna wanted, “No, let them be excused.” Krsna wanted, “No, you must fight. You must kill them.” This is the position. So he is within the dilemma. Krsna is insisting that “You must fight and kill them,” but he is thinking, “How shall I kill my kinsmen?” This is the problem. Therefore, tan samiksya sa kaunteyah sarvan bandhun avasthitan. All friends are there. Krpaya parayavisto visidann idam abravit. So this is one side, that if you want to please Krsna, then you have to be prepared for killing your so-called relatives. If you want Krsna. If you want to please Krsna.
Bg 1.32-35 P Observing the Armies on the Battlefield of Kuruksetra
Arjuna has addressed Lord Krsna as Govinda because Krsna is the object of all pleasures for cows and the senses. By using this significant word, Arjuna indicates what will satisfy his senses. Although Govinda is not meant for satisfying our senses, if we try to satisfy the senses of Govinda then automatically our own senses are satisfied. Materially, everyone wants to satisfy his senses, and he wants God to be the order supplier for such satisfaction. The Lord will satisfy the senses of the living entities as much as they deserve, but not to the extent that they may covet. But when one takes the opposite way–namely, when one tries to satisfy the senses of Govinda without desiring to satisfy one’s own senses–then by the grace of Govinda all desires of the living entity are satisfied. Arjuna’s deep affection for community and family members is exhibited here partly due to his natural compassion for them. He is therefore not prepared to fight. Everyone wants to show his opulence to friends and relatives, but Arjuna fears that all his relatives and friends will be killed in the battlefield, and he will be unable to share his opulence after victory. This is a typical calculation of material life. The transcendental life is, however, different. Since a devotee wants to satisfy the desires of the Lord, he can, Lord willing, accept all kinds of opulence for the service of the Lord, and if the Lord is not willing, he should not accept a farthing. ARJUNA DID NOT WANT TO KILL HIS RELATIVES, AND IF THERE WERE ANY NEED TO KILL THEM, HE DESIRED THAT KRSNA KILL THEM PERSONALLY. AT THIS POINT HE DID NOT KNOW THAT KRSNA HAD ALREADY KILLED THEM BEFORE THEIR COMING INTO THE BATTLEFIELD AND THAT HE WAS ONLY TO BECOME AN INSTRUMENT FOR KRSNA. This fact is disclosed in following chapters. As a natural devotee of the Lord, Arjuna did not like to retaliate against his miscreant cousins and brothers, but it was the Lord’s plan that they should all be killed. The devotee of the Lord does not retaliate against the wrongdoer, but the Lord does not tolerate any mischief done to the devotee by the miscreants. THE LORD CAN EXCUSE A PERSON ON HIS OWN ACCOUNT, BUT HE EXCUSES NO ONE WHO HAS DONE HARM TO HIS DEVOTEES. THEREFORE THE LORD WAS DETERMINED TO KILL THE MISCREANTS, ALTHOUGH ARJUNA WANTED TO EXCUSE THEM.
SB 4.4.13 P Sati Quits Her Body
Everything depends on the strength of the recipient. For example, due to the scorching sunshine many vegetables and flowers dry up, and many grow luxuriantly. Thus it is the recipient that causes growth and dwindling. Similarly, mahiyasam pada-rajo-‘bhisekam: the dust of the lotus feet of great personalities offers all good to the recipient, but the same dust can also do harm. THOSE WHO ARE OFFENDERS AT THE LOTUS FEET OF A GREAT PERSONALITY DRY UP; THEIR GODLY QUALITIES DIMINISH. A GREAT SOUL MAY FORGIVE OFFENSES, BUT KRSNA DOES NOT EXCUSE OFFENSES TO THE DUST OF THAT GREAT SOUL’S FEET, JUST AS ONE CAN TOLERATE THE SCORCHING SUNSHINE ON ONE’S HEAD BUT CANNOT TOLERATE THE SCORCHING SUNSHINE ON ONE’S FEET. AN OFFENDER GLIDES DOWN MORE AND MORE; THEREFORE HE NATURALLY CONTINUES TO COMMIT OFFENSES AT THE FEET OF THE GREAT SOUL. Offenses are generally committed by persons who falsely identify with the impermanent body. King Daksa was deeply engrossed in a misconception because he identified the body with the soul. He offended the lotus feet of Lord Siva because he thought that his body, being the father of the body of Sati, was superior to Lord Siva’s. Generally, less intelligent men misidentify in that way, and they act in the bodily concept of life. Thus they are subject to commit more and more offenses at the lotus feet of great souls. One who has such a concept of life is considered to be in the class of animals like cows and asses.
TLC 1 Teachings to Rupa Gosvami
There are ten principal offenses which can be committed against the holy name. The first is to blaspheme the great devotees who have tried to spread the glories of the holy name throughout the world. The holy name of Krsna is nondifferent from Krsna, and one who attempts to spread the holy names throughout the world is beloved of Him. KRSNA HIMSELF DOES NOT TOLERATE OFFENSES AGAINST HIS PURE DEVOTEES.
RV 6 Knowledge of Krsna’ s Appearances and Activities
Thus Sri Krsna says that He appears whenever there is a discrepancy in the dharma of the living entities, that is to say whenever the living entities cease rendering service to the Supreme. In other words, when the living entity is too busily engaged serving his senses, and there is an over-indulgence in sense gratification, the Lord comes. In India, for instance, when people were over-indulging in animal slaughter, Lord Buddha came to establish ahimsa, nonviolence to all living entities. Similarly, in the above-quoted verse, Sri Krsna says that He comes in order to protect the sadhus (paritranaya sadhunam). Sadhus are typified by their toleration of all other living entities. Despite all inconveniences and dangers, they try to give real knowledge to the people in general. A sadhu is not the friend of a particular society, community or country but is a friend of all–not only of human beings, but of animals and lower forms of life. In short, the sadhu is an enemy of no one and a friend to all. Consequently he is always peaceful. Such persons who have sacrificed everything for the Lord are very, very dear to the Lord. ALTHOUGH THE SADHUS DO NOT MIND IF THEY ARE INSULTED, KRSNA DOES NOT TOLERATE ANY INSULT TO THEM.
Mahesh Prabhu, you have truly compiled quotes from our Jagat Guru Srila Prabhupada’s VANI to the relevant point to substantiate its important discussion which are not only POWERFULLY convincing but very much ILLUMINATING also for which I offer my best thanks for sharing it.
I do sincerely hope that those followers of the bogus gurus in the present Iskcon management come across and read these vital discussion on the important point so that who so ever read and understand it may come to their senses in order to go back to the path of following Srila Prabhupada’s VANI by rejecting these bogus gurus in order to make their lives sublime in cultivating Krsna Consciousness.
OM TAT SAT.
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
We also learn from Srimad Bhagavata Gita Verse 15 Chapter 15 ;
sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo
mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca
vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo
vedānta-kṛd veda-vid eva cāham
SYNONYMS
sarvasya—of all living beings; ca—and; aham—I; hṛdi—in the heart; sanniviṣṭaḥ—being situated; mattaḥ—from Me; smṛtiḥ—remembrance; jñānam—knowledge; apohanam ca—and forgetfulness; vedaiḥ—by the Vedas; ca—also; sarvaiḥ—all; aham—I am; eva—certainly; vedyaḥ—knowable; vedānta-kṛt—the compiler of the Vedānta; veda-vit—the knower of the Vedas; eva—certainly; ca—and; aham—I.
TRANSLATION
I am seated in everyone’s heart, and from Me come remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness. By all the Vedas am I to be known; indeed I am the compiler of Vedānta, and I am the knower of the Vedas.
PURPORT
The Supreme Lord is situated as Paramātmā in everyone’s heart, and it is from Him that all activities are initiated. The living entity forgets everything of his past life, but he has to act according to the direction of the Supreme Lord, who is witness to all his work. Therefore he begins his work according to his past deeds. Required knowledge is supplied to him, and remembrance is given to him, and he forgets, also, about his past life. Thus, the Lord is not only all-pervading; He is also localized in every individual heart. He awards the different fruitive results. He is not only worshipable as the impersonal Brahman, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and the localized Paramātmā, but as the form of the incarnation of the Vedas as well. The Vedas give the right direction to the people so that they can properly mold their lives and come back to Godhead, back to home. The Vedas offer knowledge of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa in His incarnation as Vyāsadeva is the compiler of the Vedānta-sūtra. The commentation on the Vedānta-sūtra by Vyāsadeva in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam gives the real understanding of Vedānta-sūtra. The Supreme Lord is so full that for the deliverance of the conditioned soul He is the supplier and digester of foodstuff, the witness of his activity, the giver of knowledge in the form of Vedas and as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the teacher of the Bhagavad-gītā. He is worshipable by the conditioned soul. Thus God is all-good; God is all-merciful.
Antaḥpraviṣṭaḥ śāstā janānām. The living entity forgets as soon as he quits his present body, but he begins his work again, initiated by the Supreme Lord. Although he forgets, the Lord gives him the intelligence to renew his work where he ended his last life. So not only does a living entity enjoy or suffer in this world according to the dictation from the Supreme Lord situated locally in the heart, but he receives the opportunity to understand Vedas from Him. If one is serious to understand the Vedic knowledge, then Kṛṣṇa gives the required intelligence. Why does He present the Vedic knowledge for understanding? Because a living entity individually needs to understand Kṛṣṇa. Vedic literature confirms this: yo ‘sau sarvair vedair gīyate. In all Vedic literature, beginning from the four Vedas, Vedānta-sūtra and the Upaniṣads and Purāṇas, the glories of the Supreme Lord are celebrated. By performing Vedic rituals, discussing the Vedic philosophy and worshiping the Lord in devotional service, He is attained. Therefore the purpose of the Vedas is to understand Kṛṣṇa. The Vedas give us direction to understand Kṛṣṇa and the process of understanding. The ultimate goal is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Vedānta-sūtra confirms this in the following words: tat tu samanvayāt. One can attain perfection by understanding Vedic literature, and one can understand his relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead by performing the different processes. Thus one can approach Him and at the end attain the supreme goal, who is no other than the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In this verse, however, the purpose of the Vedas, the understanding of the Vedas and the goal of Vedas are clearly defined.
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Therefore, from the above cited Sloka , we can understand that these bogus gurus in the present Iskcon of Srila Prabhupada ” desire ” intently and purposely to conduct the Spiritual Master Srila Prabhupada’s business simply to satisfy their SUBTLE sense gratification.
This way, the Lord sitting in their heart as Paramatma allows it to fulfill their ” desire “. Thus, they burn their merits what they have accumulated over the years. Once the Credit or Merits is finished, that is at the time of death, they undoubtedly fall in the clutches of Maya and further suffer in ignorance life after life without the mercy of the Spiritual Master.
That is what they want and the Lord grants it. It is that simple and yet it seems very complex because the bewildered Jivas make it complicated simply to satisfy their subtle desire of as good as God or the Spiritual Master. Thus, it becomes never ending of the repeated cycle of birth and death.
OM TAT SAT.
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Amar Puri :This way, the Lord sitting in their heart as Paramatma allows it to fulfill their ” desire “. Thus, they burn their merits what they have accumulated over the years. Once the Credit or Merits is finished, that is at the time of death, they undoubtedly fall in the clutches of Maya and further suffer in ignorance life after life without the mercy of the Spiritual Master.
Mahesh:these Anti Ritviks foolosophy is: they want to dump their carcasses in Holy Dham like Vrindavan, Mayapur and go to Goloka. However, the reality is going to be VERY different. All these Anti Ritviks usurping Srila Prabhupada’s Diksa position, stealing his disciples,stealing temples, BBT, changing his books, stealing money,driving away devotees giving poison to Srila Prabhupada means they are going to reap the results: As you sow, so shall you reap:
KB 4 Kamsa Begins His Persecutions
Thus being advised by the demoniac ministers, Kamsa, who was from the very beginning the greatest rascal, decided to persecute the brahmanas and Vaisnavas, being entrapped by the shackles of all-devouring, eternal time. He ordered the demons to harass all kinds of saintly persons, and then he entered his house. The adherents of Kamsa were all influenced by the modes of passion as well as illusioned by the modes of ignorance, and their only business was to create enmity with saintly persons. Such activities can only reduce the duration of life. The demons accelerated the process and invited their deaths as soon as possible. THE RESULT OF PERSECUTING SAINTLY PERSONS IS NOT ONLY UNTIMELY DEATH. THE ACT IS SO OFFENSIVE THAT THE ACTOR ALSO GRADUALLY LOSES HIS BEAUTY, HIS FAME AND HIS RELIGIOUS PRINCIPLES, AND HIS PROMOTION TO HIGHER PLANETS IS ALSO CHECKED. DRIVEN BY VARIOUS KINDS OF MENTAL CONCOCTIONS, THE DEMONS DIMINISH ALL KINDS OF WELFARE. AN OFFENSE AT THE LOTUS FEET OF THE DEVOTEES AND BRAHMANAS IS A GREATER OFFENSE THAN THAT COMMITTED AT THE LOTUS FEET OF THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD. THUS A GODLESS CIVILIZATION BECOMES THE SOURCE OF ALL CALAMITIES.
SB 6.7.14 Indra Offends His Spiritual Master, Brhaspati.
A stone boat would be unable to float and would sink in the water with its passengers. SIMILARLY, THOSE WHO MISLEAD PEOPLE GO TO HELL, AND THEIR FOLLOWERS GO WITH THEM.
72-12-14. Letter: Tusta Krsna
As for your next question, can only a few pure devotees deliver others, anyone, if he is a pure devotee he can deliver others, he can become spiritual master. But unless he on that platform he should not attempt it. THEN BOTH OF THEM WILL TO GO TO HELL, LIKE BLIND MEN LEADING THE BLIND.
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Those who have Self Interested agenda they do present and justify the motive with their own interpretations of the authoritative scriptures in order to bewilder and mislead massive ignorant people in general.
Thus, the doors to their discriminative intelligence are shut on account of their SUBTLE motivated desire which serves their purpose. They remain ultimately intoxicated under the spell of such Prathistha they get from their agenda in order to carry forward their activities which lead them into a darkness of ignorance to disobey the Instructions of the Acarayas.
Therefore, as we know and understand from the Sasthras that the Lord being all-pervading and also localized in every individual heart, He awards the Jivas different fruitive results as per their activities.
OM TAT SAT.
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Note: there is interesting incidence that a devotee who was at the time FOLLOWING Krsna Consciousness (Bhakti Yoga process) – died in a holy dhama. Now, there is a BIG DIFFERENCE between a *unsuccessful yogi* and these Anti Ritvik ENVIOUS persons IN THE DRESS OF DEVOTEES who have USURPED Srila Prabhupada’s Diksa guru position,changed his books,stolen BBT,stolen his temples,stolen his disciples,given poison to Srila Prabhupada. Unsuccessful YOGI is one who is practicing Krsna Consciousness BUT he was unsuccessful at the point of his death: he was NOT an Anti Ritvik THUG. The ENVIOUS Anti Ritvik manipulative THUGS can NOT capture Krsna BECAUSE they DENY Srila Prabhupada his Diksa Guru position hence, there is NO DEVOTIONAL SERVICE. History is PROOF that Kālayavana lacked DEVOTIONAL SERVICE so he could NOT capture Krsna:
771025rc.vrn Conversations
Hari-sauri: You saw him in Bombay last year. He had just done some drawings for the development of Bhubaneshwar, and you asked him if he would like… Oh, Haridaspur. At that time he was working on some plans for Haridaspur, and you asked him if he would like to stay there. He’s… Bhagavata put that he had died of some brain virus.
Prabhupada: In Bhubaneshwar?
Hari-sauri: Yes. That is part of Jagannatha Puri dhama?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Hari-sauri: IS THAT A GUARANTEE FOR GOING HOME, IF SOMEONE LEAVES THEIR BODY IN THE DHAMA?
Prabhupada: AT LEAST, HE GETS HIGH STANDARD OF LIFE FOR MANY YEARS. THAT IS STATED IN THE BHAGAVAD-GITA. Find out in Bhagavad-gita.
Hari-sauri: (pause) Prapya punya-krtam lokan?
Prabhupada: Hm.
Hari-sauri:
usitva sasvatih samah
sucinam srimatam gehe
yoga-bhrasto ‘bhijayate
Prabhupada: Read the whole verse.
Hari-sauri: The English?
Prabhupada: Or Sanskrit.
Hari-sauri: That was text 41. “The unsuccessful yogi, after many, many years of enjoyment on the planets of the pious living entities, is born into a family of righteous people or into a family of rich aristocracy.” Then the next verse,
athava yoginam eva
kule bhavati dhimatam
etad dhi durlabhataram
loke janma yad idrsam
“Or he takes his birth in a family of transcendentalists, who are surely great in wisdom. Verily, such a birth is rare in this world.”
tatra tam buddhi-samyogam
labhate paurva-dehikam
yatate ca tato bhuyah
samsiddhau kuru-nandana
“On taking such a birth, he again revives the divine consciousness of his previous life, and he tries to make further progress in order to achieve complete success, O son of Kuru.” (break) …telegram came today. It didn’t give the exact time, but it came from Bhubaneshwar.
Prabhupada: He was there?
Hari-sauri: Yes. He was working with Gaura-Govinda Maharaja.
Prabhupada: He is… He was coming from Australia.
Hari-sauri: Yes. He was from Melbourne. He gave up his family when he was fifty-one and joined the temple, and then he came here to work with Saurabha.
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Kṛṣṇa, however, went ahead without looking at Kālayavana, and Kālayavana began to follow Him with a desire to capture Him. But in spite of all his swift running, he could not capture Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa cannot be captured even by the mental speed attained by great yogīs. He can be captured ONLY by devotional service, and Kālayavana was not practiced in devotional service.
https://prabhupadabooks.com/kb/1/49
Thanks to Mahesh and Amar Puri prabhus,for exhausting as much as possible, the information that reveals why and how the Kali Chelas or counterfeit Bhabajis live in Naraka Kundhaminstead or Radha Kunda. These are not impermeable to contamination as the Ganges waters are when it shows bubbles and dead Bodies floating on it’s pure waters. “The tears of the Sahayas,wash away any previous pius activities they have gained”. (paraphrased).Lord Chaitanya’s Gaundicha temple cleaning,literally and symbolically was executed in order to wash away any inconsistencies and dirts in it’s different forms,that grows to impede the healthy development of the Bhakti lata Bija. These cleansing encourages devotees to identify and distinguish the Weeds of profit adoration and distinction, (personal motive),disguised as love of God.that chokes the actual Bhakti lata Bija that grows upwards toward Vaikuntha. The pruning of this Bhakti lata Bija must be done by expert gardeners,Tree surgeons, or experienced devotees, who are trained up to detect the seeds of the weeds,and pull them out.
Vadiraja Prabhu says ; ” ….. These are not impermeable to contamination as the Ganges waters are when it shows bubbles and dead Bodies floating on it’s pure waters…… ”
Agreed Prabhu. However, make no mistake that what becomes impermeable to contamination is the Individual Jiva’s personal ” desire ” . Having an agenda to serve the purpose of personal own agenda for sense gratification is not impermeable to contamination. Only to serve the Lord as per Individual constitution position of the Jiva Selflessly is impermeable to contamination as the Ganges’ water is when we see with our purified senses Bubbles and Dead Bodies Floating on it’s Pure Waters.
Then and only then “These cleansing encourages devotees to identify and distinguish the Weeds of profit adoration and distinction, (personal motive),disguised as love of God.that chokes the actual Bhakti lata Bija that grows upwards toward Vaikuntha.” OTHERWISE, it is NOT as we learn and understand from the Srimad Bhagavata Gita Chapter 6 Sloka 43.
OM TAT SAT.
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Vadiraja acbsp : “The tears of the Sahayas,wash away any previous pius activities they have gained”. (paraphrased).
Mahesh: Obviously, Srila Prabhupada KNEW Jayapataka was not chanting his rounds. Looks like Jayapataka wanted to make it sound that colors symptoms he was seeing was because of him being an advanced devotee BUT Srila Prabhupada tactfully corrected him as due to his PAST DRUGS HABIT :
Letter to: Jayapataka
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Hawaii
11 March, 1969
My Dear Jayapataka,
Please accept my blessings. I am very glad to receive your letter dated February 28, and noted the contents with great pleasure. The transcendental experience which you had during kirtana performance at the Loyala University is very nice. Relishing the transcendental sweetness of Krishna Kirtana is only possible when one is actually advanced, towards perfection. Srila Rupa Goswami used to say, wishing if he had possessed millions of ears, and billions of tongues then he could chant the Hare Krishna mantra a little bit relishably. IN THE CONDITIONED STAGE, WE CHANT HARE KRISHNA MANTRA OFFICIALLY WITHOUT ANY ATTACHMENT AND TRY TO FINISH THE ROUNDS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. SOMETIMES WE ALSO FORGET TO CHANT THE PRESCRIBED NUMBER OF ROUNDS. But Haridasa Thakura even at the last stage of his life, he was chanting 300,000 beads although Lord Caitanya personally asked him to not labor so hard. But Haridasa Thakura said that he would continue the practice till the end of his life. So that is the position of transcendental taste. Please therefore chant very sincerely with your present aptitude of mind and Krishna will bless you more and more in understanding this secret of transcendental vibration. Of course, sometimes the public may misunderstand such tears of bliss, so we may better have to check it from the vision of ordinary persons.
SO FAR THE STRANGE COLORS, ETC., BETTER WHEN YOU SEE ALL THESE THINGS THAT YOU CHANT AND HEAR; THAT WILL HELP YOU TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY ARE. (ALSO, IT MAY BE SOME EFFECTS OF YOUR PAST DRUGS HABIT.)
Note: these Anti Ritvik bogus gurus are after PROFIT ADORATION AND DISTINCTION so they want to play at being “AS GOOD AS GOD” by replacing Srila Prabhupada as Diksa Guru. So Lord Krsna arranges for them to fulfill their SINFUL IMPIOUS desires and become entrapped – and – go to hell: “THE LORD ENGAGES HIM IN IMPIOUS ACTIVITIES SO HE MAY GO TO HELL”:
TEXT 15
nādatte kasyacit pāpaṁ
na caiva sukṛtaṁ vibhuḥ
ajñānenāvṛtaṁ jñānaṁ
tena muhyanti jantavaḥ
SYNONYMS
na—never; ādatte—accepts; kasyacit—anyone’s; pāpam—sin; na—nor; ca—also; eva—certainly; sukṛtam—pious activities; vibhuḥ—the Supreme Lord; ajñānena—by ignorance; āvṛtam—covered; jñānam—knowledge; tena—by that; muhyanti—bewildered; jantavaḥ—the living entities.
TRANSLATION
Nor does the Supreme Spirit assume anyone’s sinful or pious activities. Embodied beings, however, are bewildered because of the ignorance which covers their real knowledge.
PURPORT
The Sanskrit word vibhuḥ means the Supreme Lord who is full of unlimited knowledge, riches, strength, fame, beauty and renunciation. He is always satisfied in Himself, undisturbed by sinful or pious activities. He does not create a particular situation for any living entity, but the living entity, bewildered by ignorance, desires to be put into certain conditions of life, and thereby his chain of action and reaction begins. A living entity is, by superior nature, full of knowledge. Nevertheless, he is prone to be influenced by ignorance due to his limited power. The Lord is omnipotent, but the living entity is not. The Lord is vibhu, or omniscient, but the living entity is aṇu, or atomic. Because he is a living soul, he has the capacity to desire by his free will. Such desire is fulfilled only by the omnipotent Lord. And so, when the living entity is bewildered in his desires, the Lord allows him to fulfill those desires, but the Lord is never responsible for the actions and reactions of the particular situation which may be desired. BEING IN A BEWILDERED CONDITION, THEREFORE, THE EMBODIED SOUL IDENTIFIES HIMSELF WITH THE CIRCUMSTANTIAL MATERIAL BODY AND BECOMES SUBJECTED TO THE TEMPORARY MISERY AND HAPPINESS OF LIFE. The Lord is the constant companion of the living entity as Paramātmā, or the Supersoul, and therefore He can understand the desires of the individual soul, as one can smell the flavor of a flower by being near it. Desire is a subtle form of conditioning of the living entity. The Lord fulfills his desire as he deserves: Man proposes and God disposes. The individual is not, therefore, omnipotent in fulfilling his desires. THE LORD, HOWEVER, CAN FULFILL ALL DESIRES, AND THE LORD, BEING NEUTRAL TO EVERYONE, DOES NOT INTERFERE WITH THE DESIRES OF THE MINUTE INDEPENDANT LIVING ENTITIES. However, when one desires Kṛṣṇa, the Lord takes special care and encourages one to desire in such a way that one can attain to Him and be eternally happy. The Vedic hymn therefore declares:
eṣa u hy eva sādhu karma kārayati taṁ yamebhyo lokebhya unninīṣate
eṣa u evāsādhu karma kārayati yamadho ninīṣate.
ajño jantur anīso ‘yam ātmanaḥ sukha-duḥkhayoḥ
īśvara-prerito gacchet svargaṁ vāśvabhram eva ca.
“THE LORD ENGAGES THE LIVING ENTITY IN PIOUS ACTIVITIES SO HE MAY BE ELEVATED. THE LORD ENGAGES HIM IN IMPIOUS ACTIVITIES SO HE MAY GO TO HELL. THE LIVING ENTITY IS COMPLETELY DEPENDANT IN HIS DISTRESS AND HAPPINESS. BY THE WILL OF THE SUPREME HE CAN GO TO HEAVEN OR HELL, AS A CLOUD IS DRIVEN BY THE AIR.”
Therefore the embodied soul, by his immemorial desire to avoid Kṛṣṇa consciousness, causes his own bewilderment. Consequently, although he is constitutionally eternal, blissful and cognizant, due to the littleness of his existence he forgets his constitutional position of service to the Lord and is thus entrapped by nescience. And, under the spell of ignorance, the living entity claims that the Lord is responsible for his conditional existence. The Vedānta-sūtras also confirm this:
vaiṣamya-nairghṛṇye na sāpekṣatvāt tathā hi darśayati.
“The Lord neither hates nor likes anyone, though He appears to.”
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/bg/5/15
I think it is safe to say, that my Godbrothers,Amar Puri and Mahesh Raja have grasped the essence of our Krsna Consciousness. Otherwise how can they express such great realizations everyday on this forum. I’m very fortunate to be in their association. Maybe i have performed some pious activities in my past life,that gives me the opportunity to share with them,as if i was as advanced as they are,although i’m not.
Vadiraja Prabhu, no doubt, you are indeed an advanced practitioner of Krsna Consciousness as it appears always from your inspiring writings with full of wisdom which in turn aspire all the students in Learning Krsna Consciousness including myself.
This taste of grasping the essence of Krsna Consciousness is the result of such inspiring writings from all the devotees / followers of Krsna Consciousness when they quote and share of our Jagat Guru Srila Prabhupada’s VANI including yourself in their respective writings here on this web site.
May our Jagat Guru Srila Prabhupada’s VANI As It Is prevail for the benefit of sincere Followers / Devotees in cultivating Krsna Consciousness.
OM TAT SAT.
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Vadiraja Prabhu, thank-you very much for your appreciation. Over here, we are ALL trying to follow Srila Prabhupada’s instructions and learning something from each other’s realizations. This is what Srila Prabhupada wanted that siddhanta be discussed amongst ourselves. Unfortunately – still in some of our Ritvik (Prabhupadanuga camps) they have “follow the Boss” mentality remote controlled by their “boss”. There is no discussion on various topics on the philosophy. Here is what Srila Prabhupada WANTED:
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Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated March 19th, along with Istagosthi notes, I am ALWAYS SO PLEASED to see how nicely the Istagosthi meetings are being carried on, so I am always anticipating your letters, along with Istagosthi reports. Thank you very much.
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/letters/san_francisco/march/22/1968/balai
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76-09-22. Letter: Ayodhyapati
Your siddhanta is correct to the sastra and in this way go on reading books and have the correct perception and Krsna will help you. siddhanta baliya citte na kara alasa iha haite krsna lage sudrdha manasa. A SINCERE STUDENT SHOULD NOT NEGLECT THE DISCUSSION OF SUCH CONCLUSIONS, CONSIDERING THEM CONTROVERSIAL, FOR SUCH DISCUSSIONS SRENGTHEN THE MIND. THUS ONE’S MIND BECOMES ATTACHED TO SRI KRSNA.
YOU SHOULD BE ALWAYS ALERT IN UNDERSTANDING THE SASTRIC CONCLUSIONS THAT WILL HELP YOU, OTHERWISE WE CAN BE MISLED BY BOGUS PHILOSOPHIES. I am very pleased that you are studying the books. This will make you happy and successful.
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The answer to your Istagosthi questions are as follows: Unless one is a resident of Krishna Loka, one cannot be a Spiritual Master. That is the first proposition. A layman cannot be a Spiritual Master, and if he becomes so then he will simply create disturbance.
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/letters/new_vrindaban/june/10/1969/mukunda
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You have to hear from the pure source, give aural reception, and think of it, meditate upon it. Simply by doing this, you are liberated. These are not bluff. Here is the evidence. Simply receive the message from the right source and contemplate and meditate upon that instruction. You are liberated. Chanting and hearing. Hearing and… śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam [SB 7.5.23]. First hearing, then chanting. Hear from the right source and discuss amongst yourselves. Iṣṭagoṣṭhi. Then the perfection.
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/classes/sb/1/5/13/new_vrindaban/june/13/1969
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Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated March 19th, along with Istagosthi notes, I am ALWAYS SO PLEASED to see how nicely the Istagosthi meetings are being carried on, so I am always anticipating your letters, along with Istagosthi reports. Thank you very much.
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/letters/san_francisco/march/22/1968/balai
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Hare Krsna
I would like to join to Vadiraja acbsp comment – 2. October 2018 at 3:57 am
He expressed his feelings very nicely.
Thank all you very much.
Hare Krsna
These bogus Anti Ritvik gurus and their supporters are CARCASS worshipers:
http://www.iskcon-truth.com/tamal-samadhi.html
Note: It is actually a PROVEN FACT these Anti Ritvik people are in MODE OF IGNORANCE:
TEXT 4
yajante sāttvikā devān
yakṣa-rakṣāṁsi rājasāḥ
pretān bhūta-gaṇāṁś cānye
yajante tāmasā janāḥ
SYNONYMS
yajante—worship; sāttvikāḥ—those who are in the mode of goodness; devān—demigods; yakṣa-rakṣāṁsi rājasāḥ—those who are in the mode of passion worship demons; pretān—dead spirits; bhūta-gaṇān—ghosts; ca anye—and others; yajante—worship; tāmasāḥ—in the mode of ignorance; janāḥ—people.
TRANSLATION
Men in the mode of goodness worship the demigods; those in the mode of passion worship the demons; AND THOSE IN THE MODE OF IGNORANCE WORSHIP GHOSTS AND SPIRITS.
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/bg/17/4
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Now, it is clearly described here that those who are in the mode of passion worship and create such gods, AND THOSE WHO ARE IN THE MODE OF IGNORANCE, IN DARKNESS, WORSHIP DEAD SPIRITS. SOMETIMES PEOPLE WORSHIP AT THE TOMB OF SOME DEAD MAN.
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/bg/17/4
I’m overwhelmed, by you devotees display of appreciation for this lowly self. Marichi,Prabhu,Amar Puri Prabhu,and Mahesh Raja Prabhu. You are so very kind to me. Personally and to be honest,i”m not even near one of the best in quoting verses,or even expressing my realizations and acquaintance with Srila Prabhupada’s books in a Scholarly narrative expertise and harmonious writings as you Prabhus are. The only thing i will take some credit, if you allow me to,is that the many years of studying in a scrutinizing manner,Srila Prabhupada’s books ,it has given me comfortable flow of recollection on that reading,with a sense of confidence and reconciling ability,which i give the credit to our Spiritual Master,for h is combined eloquence,and at the same time,broad and explicit covering all angles of our philosophy, by his Scholarly presentations. You are my Shiksha Gurus. Hoping to continue to benefit from our Valuable association,i offer my prostrated obeisances,falling flat like a Stick at your Lotus feet,100 times in schedule times.
Hare Krsna, Vadiraja Prabhu
ref. your comment: “Vadiraja acbsp says: 4. October 2018 at 2:14 am”
You are very kind but I did nothing only I had a note to your previous comment.
In connection with Siksa gurus now I would like to quote Mahesh Raja Prabhu :
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Room Conversation, July18, 1971, Detroit:
„Mohsin Hassan: Yeah, the tenth. After you, is it any decision has been made who will take over?
Prabhupāda: Yes. All of them will take over. These students, who are initiated from me, all of them will act as I am doing. Just like I have got many Godbrothers, they are all acting. Similarly, all these disciples which I am making, initiating, they are being trained to become future spiritual masters.”
Mahesh Raja says:
1.) The SYSTEM for INITIATION is July 9th 1977 Ritvik as ORDERED by Srila Prabhupada.
2.) Srila Prabhupada wanted ALL his disciples to ACT AS Siksa gurus.
3.) It is OBVIOUS that Srila Prabhupada’s Godbrothers were NOT able to give Diksa because they had DISOBEYED Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura. They were NOT on TRANSCENDENTAL platform. BUT—Srila Prabhupada tried to ENCOURAGE all to spread the holy name. Siksa guru.
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Thank you very much,
Hare Krsna
Note: regards that Room Conversation, July18, 1971, Detroit here is FURTHER evidence of Srila Prabhupada’s instruction later in year 1975 that he wanted them as INSTRUCTOR(siksa) gurus:
THE GBC SHOULD ALL BE THE INSTRUCTOR GURUS. I am in the initiator guru, AND YOU SHOULD BE THE INSTRUCTOR GURU BY TEACHING WHAT I AM TEACHING AND DOING WHAT I AM DOING. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This I want.
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/letters/detroit/august/04/1975/madhudvisa
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This was FURTHER established as: “Ritvik Representative of the Acarya” in the year 1977:
77-07-09
To All G.B.C., and Temple Presidents
Dear Maharajas and Prabhus,
Please accept my humble obeisances at your feet. Recently when all of the GBC members were with His Divine Grace in Vrndavana, Srila Prabhupada indicated that soon He would appoint some of His senior disciples to act as “RITVIK- REPRESENTATIVE OF THE ACARYA, FOR THE PURPOSE OF PERFORMING INITIATIONS, BOTH FIRST INITIATION AND SECOND INITIATION.
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Letter to: All G.B.C., All Temple Presidents
—
Vrindaban
9 July, 1977
77-07-09
To All G.B.C., and Temple Presidents
Dear Maharajas and Prabhus,
Please accept my humble obeisances at your feet. Recently when all of the GBC members were with His Divine Grace in Vrndavana, Srila Prabhupada indicated that soon He would appoint some of His senior disciples to act as “ritvik
– representative of the acarya, for the purpose of performing initiations, both first initiation and second initiation. His Divine Grace has so far given a list of eleven disciples who will act in that capacity:
His Holiness Kirtanananda Swami
His Holiness Satsvarupa dasa Gosvami
His Holiness Jayapataka Swami
His Holiness Tamala Krsna Gosvami
His Holiness Hrdayananda Gosvami
His Holiness Bhavananda Gosvami
His Holiness Hamsaduta Swami
His Holiness Ramesvara Swami
His Holiness Harikesa Swami
His Grace Bhagavan dasa Adhikari
His Grace Jayatirtha dasa Adhikari
In the past Temple Presidents have written to Srila Prabhupada recommending a particular devotee’s initiation. Now that Srila Prabhupada has named these representatives, Temple Presidents may henceforward send recommendation for first and second initiation to whichever of these eleven representatives are nearest their temple. After considering the recommendation, these representatives may accept the devotee as an initiated disciple of Srila Prabhupada by giving a spiritual name, or in the case of second initiation, by chanting on the Gayatri thread, just as Srila Prabhupada has done. The newly initiated devotees are disciples of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupad, the above eleven senior devotees acting as His representative. After the Temple President receives a letter from these representatives giving the spiritual name or the thread, he can perform the fire yajna in the temple as was being done before. The name of a newly initiated disciple should be sent by the representative who has accepted him or her to Srila Prabhupada, to be included in His Divine Grace’s “Initiated Disciples” book.
Hoping this finds you all well.
Your servant,
Approved:Tamala Krsna Gosvami
A.C. Bhaktivedanta SwamiSecretary to Srila Prabhupada
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/letters/vrindaban/july/09/1977/all_gbc/all_temple_presidents
Mahesh Raja says:
1.) The SYSTEM for INITIATION is July 9th 1977 Ritvik as ORDERED by Srila Prabhupada.
Satsvarupa: “Then our next question concerns initiations in the future, particularly at that time when you’re no longer with us. We want to know how first and second initiations would be conducted.”
Prabhupada: “Yes; I shall recommend some of you. After this is settled up, I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating acharyas.”
Tamala Krsna: “Is that called ritvik-acharya?”
Prabhupada: “Ritvik yes.”
Srila Prabhupada states very clearly in his purport SB 4.8.5, that an Acarya can slightly change the formalities, according to circumstances to initiate candalas.
“Srimad Viraraghava Acarya, an acarya in the disciplic succession of the Ramanuja-sampradaya, has remarked in his commentary that candalas, or conditioned souls who are born in lower than sudra families, can also be initiated according to circumstances. The formalities may be slightly changed here and there to make them Vaisnavas.”
(SB, 4.8.5, purport)
“Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was an ideal acarya. An acarya is an ideal teacher who knows the purpose of the revealed scriptures, behaves exactly according to their injunctions and teaches his students to adopt these principles also. As an ideal acarya, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu devised ways to capture all kinds of atheists and materialists. Every acarya has a specific means of propagating his spiritual movement with the aim of bringing men to Krsna consciousness. Therefore, the method of one acarya may be different from that of another, but the ultimate goal is never neglected.
Srila Rupa Gosvami recommends:
tasmat kenapy upayena manah krsne nivesayet
sarve vidhi-nisedha syur etayor eva kinkarah
An acarya should devise a means by which people may somehow or other come to Krsna consciousness. First they should become Krsna conscious, and all the prescribed rules and regulations may later gradually be introduced. In our Krsna consciousness movement we follow this policy of Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. For example, since boys and girls in the Western countries freely intermingle, special concessions regarding their customs and habits are necessary to bring them to Krsna consciousness. The acarya must devise a means to bring them to devotional service. Therefore, although I am a sannyasi I sometimes take part in getting boys and girls married, although in the history of sannyasa no sannyasi has personally taken part in marrying his disciples.”
(C.c., 7:37, purport)
2.) Srila Prabhupada wanted ALL his disciples to ACT AS Siksa gurus.
Fools continue to quote that Lord Caitanya’s ‘amar ajnaya guru hana’ verse spoken to Kurma Brahmana, was referring to the role of Diksa-guru. This can only refer to siksa-guru, as it would have been impossible for Kurma Brahmana to accept diksa disciples in the presence of Mahaprabhu, whether or not he himself had received diksa from the Lord…. Vaisnava etiquette!
Srila Prabhupada only ever ordered his disciples to perform as siksa-gurus, where is the evidence otherwise??
Yfs,
Balaram das
Note: IF it was accepted that ‘amar ajnaya guru hana’ was an order to be Diksa guru then WHY is Srila Prabhupada stating:”After this is settled up, I shall recommend some of you to act as OFFICIATING acharyas.” WHY??? bear in mind that Satsvarupa’s question was: “Then our next question concerns INITIATIONS IN THE FUTURE, PARTICULARLY AT THAT TIME WHEN YOU’RE NO LONGER WITH US. We want to know how first and second initiations would be conducted.”
770528me.vrn
Satsvarupa: “Then our next question concerns initiations in the future, particularly at that time when you’re no longer with us. We want to know how first and second initiations would be conducted.”
Prabhupada: “Yes; I shall recommend some of you. After this is settled up, I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating acharyas.”
Tamala Krsna: “Is that called ritvik-acharya?”
Prabhupada: “Ritvik yes.”
Note: IF Srila Prabhupada would have ordered BEFORE 1977, then there would be no point in 1977 of him stating in 1977 WHEN I order. It was SPECIFICALLY in the year 1977 that Srila Prabhupada said “WHEN I order” NOT before, so AFTER the year 1977, WHERE is the evidence of THAT order?
Prabhupada: “WHEN I order, “You become guru,” he becomes regular guru. That’s all. He becomes disciple of my disciple. That’s it.”
(Srila Prabhupada Conversation, May 28, 1977, Vrindavan)
“Self-made guru cannot be guru. HE MUST BE AUTHORIZED BY THE BONA FIDE GURU. Then he’s guru. This is the fact…Similarly, bona fide guru means he must be authorized by the superior guru.”
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture on Nectar of Devotion, October 31. 1972)
“One should take initiation from a bona fide spiritual master coming in the disciplic succession, who is AUTHORIZED BY HIS PREDECESSOR SPIRITUAL MASTER. This is called diksa-vidhana.”
(Srimad Bhagavatam 4.8.54, purport)
Prabhupada: “Try to understand. Don’t go very speedily. A GURU CAN BECOME GURU WHEN HE’S ORDERED BY HIS GURU. That’s all. Otherwise nobody can become guru.
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture on Bhagavad-gita 7.2, Nairobi, October 28, 1975)
Further readings:
“under my order: guru hana – become a spiritual master”
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=40622#more-40622
The whole problem with this Anti Ritvik folks is they do NOT want Srila Prabhupada as DIKSA GURU BECAUSE they want PROFIT, ADORATION AND DISTINCTION. In simple terms: THEY WANT TO EXPLOIT OTHERS.
Consider this fellow Locanananda das(NY) he wanted to DECEIVE devotees by INVENTING a new version of OFFICIATING ACARYA. His CONCOCTION was that once initiated the disciples belongs to OFFICIATING ACARYA . However, he CONVENIENTLY forgot that Officiating Acarya is RITVIK:
Prabhupāda: ṚTVIK, YES.
Now – since the July 9th 1977 Ritvik Directive from Srila Prabhupada DENIES these sort of people disciples(FREE SERVANTS/SLAVES to USE and ABUSE) of their own. THIS is WHY they want instead to become Diksa Gurus. They have VERY STRONG LUST for SENSE ENJOYMENT.
Ritvik Representative is NOT allowed his OWN disciples the disciples initiated are Srila Prabhupada’s.
Satsvarūpa: By the votes of the present GBC. Then our next question concerns initiations in the future, particularly at that time when you’re no longer with us. We want to know how first and second initiation would be conducted.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I shall recommend some of you. After this is settled up, I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating ācāryas.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is that called ṛtvik-ācārya?
Prabhupāda: ṚTVIK, YES.
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Letter to: All G.B.C., All Temple Presidents
—
Vrindaban
9 July, 1977
77-07-09
In the past Temple Presidents have written to Srila Prabhupada recommending a particular devotee’s initiation. Now that Srila Prabhupada has named these representatives, Temple Presidents may henceforward send recommendation for first and second initiation to whichever of these eleven representatives are nearest their temple. AFTER CONSIDERING THE RECOMMENDATION, THESE REPRESENTATIVES MAY ACCEPT THE DEVOTEE AS AN INITIATED DISCIPLE OF SRILA PRABHUPADA BY GIVING A SPIRITUAL NAME, OR IN THE CASE OF SECOND INITIATION, BY CHANTING ON THE GAYATRI THREAD, JUST AS SRILA PRABHUPADA HAS DONE. THE NEWLY INITIATED DEVOTEES ARE DISCIPLES OF HIS DIVINE GRACE A.C. BHAKTIVEDANTA SWAMI PRABHUPAD, the above eleven senior devotees acting as His representative. After the Temple President receives a letter from these representatives giving the spiritual name or the thread, he can perform the fire yajna in the temple as was being done before. The name of a newly initiated disciple should be sent by the representative who has accepted him or her to Srila Prabhupada, to be included in His Divine Grace’s “Initiated Disciples” book.
Lord Caitanya’s ‘amar ajnaya guru hana’ verse is very very very CLEARLY described in the following explanation of our Jagat Guru Srila Prabhupada letter to Aniruddha, 14th November, 1968 in the last paragraph which reads ;
” Bhagavad-gita, and you should be able to answer all questions like this, and only in rare cases approach me. But it is important that our students must be able to answer all questions for becoming preachers.”
Therefore, ” amar ajnaya guru hana ” simply means becoming PREACHERS. Bas.
Where is any need in the interpretation to create confusion of becoming ” Siksha Guru or Diksha Guru “.?
Actually, the Sastras says that there is no difference between the Siksha and Diksha Guru because both ways He is the Self Realized Soul. A constant and consistent Self Realized Guru directly or through the Practitioners of His VANI give instructions to a curious person in the beginning aka the Siksha Guru in cultivating KC. and later on with His regular instructions, He becomes Diksha Guru automatically.
Is that not what HDG. Srila Prabhupada instructs to His Followers / Devotees ?
That is why Srila Prabhupada establishes such a PERFECT system aka. Ritvik system and procedure to propagate KC for thousands of years to come.
OM TAT SAT.
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Amar Puri: Actually, the Sastras says that there is no difference between the Siksha and Diksha Guru because both ways He is the Self Realized Soul. A constant and consistent Self Realized Guru directly or through the Practitioners of His VANI give instructions to a curious person in the beginning aka the Siksha Guru in cultivating KC. and later on with His regular instructions, He becomes Diksha Guru automatically.
Mahesh: Not all who give you siksa are Mahabhagavatas. Best UNDERSTAND what MAHABHAGAVATA is:
KB 80 The Meeting of Lord Krsna with Sudama Brahmana
“If a man is sufficiently educated in student life under the guidance of a proper teacher, then his life becomes successful in the future. He can very easily cross over the ocean of nescience, and he is not subjected to the influence of illusory energy. My dear friend, everyone should consider his father to be his first teacher because by the mercy of one’s father one gets this body. The father is therefore the natural spiritual master. OUR NEXT SPIRITUAL MASTER IS HE WHO INITIATES US INTO TRANSCENDENTAL KNOWLEDGE, AND HE IS TO BE WORSHIPED AS MUCH AS I AM. The spiritual master may be more than one. who takes advantage of these spiritual masters and, receiving proper knowledge from them, crosses the ocean of material existence THE SPIRITUAL MASTER WHO INSTRUCTS THE DISCIPLES ABOUT SPIRITUAL MATTERS IS CALLED SIKSA-GURU, AND THE SPIRITUAL MASTER WHO INITIATES THE DISCIPLE IS CALLED DIKSA-GURU. BOTH OF THEM ARE MY REPRESENTATIVES. THERE MAY BE MANY SPIRITUAL MASTERS WHO INSTRUCT, BUT THE INITIATOR SPIRITUAL MASTER IS ONE.
NoD 8 Offenses to Be Avoided
The offenses against the chanting of the holy name are as follows: (3) To disobey the orders of the spiritual master.
Madhya 24.330 The Sixty-One Explanations of the Atmarama Verse
MAHA-BHAGAVATA-srestho
brahmano vai gurur nrnam
sarvesam eva lokanam
asau pujyo yatha harih
maha-kula-prasuto ‘pi
sarva-yajnesu DIKSITAH
sahasra-sakhadhyayi ca
na guruh syad avaisnavah
((The guru MUST be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service. There are three classes of devotees, and the guru MUST be accepted from the topmost class. The first-class devotee is the spiritual master for all kinds of people. ….When one has attained the topmost position of MAHA-BHAGAVATA, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshiped exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. Only such a person is eligible to occupy the post of a guru.))
Note: The word DIKSITAH refers to Diksa and ONLY Maha Bhagavata is the one mentioned WHO give this BY DEFINITION.
75-08-04. Letter: Madhudvisa:
The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I AM IN THE INITIATOR GURU, and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This I want.
Note: Diksa is illustrated graphically here Vasudeva was on SUDDHA-SATTVA platform THIS IS WHY from him Krsna is transferred to Devaki
SB 10.2.18 Prayers by the Demigods for Lord Krsna in the Womb:
Thereafter, accompanied by plenary expansions, the fully opulent Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is all-auspicious for the entire universe, was transferred from the mind of Vasudeva to the mind of Devaki. Devaki, having thus been INITIATED by Vasudeva, became beautiful by carrying Lord Krsna, the original consciousness for everyone, the cause of all causes, within the core of her heart, just as the east becomes beautiful by carrying the rising moon.
PURPORT:
As indicated here by the word manastah, the Supreme Personality of Godhead was transferred from the core of Vasudeva’s mind or heart to the core of the heart of Devaki. We should note carefully that the Lord was transferred to Devaki not by the ordinary way for a human being, but by diksa, initiation. Thus the importance of initiation is mentioned here. UNLESS ONE IS INITIATED BY THE RIGHT PERSON, WHO ALWAYS CARRIES WITHIN HIS HEART THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD, ONE CANNOT ACQUIRE THE POWER TO CARRY THE SUPREME GODHEAD WITHIN THE CORE OF ONE’S OWN HEART.
SB 8.5.29 P The Demigods Appeal to the Lord for Protection:
SATTVAM VISUDDHAM VASUDEVA-SABDITAM (Bhag. 4.3.23). In this material world, the three modes of material nature–goodness, passion and ignorance–prevail. Among these three, goodness is the platform of knowledge, and passion brings about a mixture of knowledge and ignorance, but the mode of ignorance is full of darkness. Therefore the Supreme Personality of Godhead is beyond darkness and passion. He is on the platform where goodness or knowledge is not disturbed by passion and ignorance. This is called the vasudeva platform. It is on this platform of vasudeva that Vasudeva, or Krsna, can appear.
SB 5.3.20 P Rsabhadeva’ s Appearance in the Womb of Merudevi, the Wife of King Nabhi:
Lord Visnu descends in His suddha-sattva form. Suddha-sattva refers to the sattva-guna which is never contaminated. In this material world, even the mode of goodness (sattva-guna) is contaminated by tinges of rajo-guna and tamo-guna. WHEN SATTVA-GUNA IS NEVER CONTAMINATED BY RAJO-GUNA AND TAMO-GUNA, IT IS CALLED SUDDHA-SATTVA. SATTVAM VISUDDHAM VASUDEVA-SABDITAM (BHAG. 4.3.23). THAT IS THE PLATFORM OF VASUDEVA, WHEREBY THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD, VASUDEVA, CAN BE EXPERIENCED.
Mahesh: Not all who give you siksa are Mahabhagavatas.
AGREED. That is why he is known or called as a PREACHER as described in my comments.
Mahesh Prabhu further quotes from the Sastra in his comments ;
” THE SPIRITUAL MASTER WHO INSTRUCTS THE DISCIPLES ABOUT SPIRITUAL MATTERS IS CALLED SIKSA-GURU, AND THE SPIRITUAL MASTER WHO INITIATES THE DISCIPLE IS CALLED DIKSA-GURU. BOTH OF THEM ARE MY REPRESENTATIVES. THERE MAY BE MANY SPIRITUAL MASTERS WHO INSTRUCT, BUT THE INITIATOR SPIRITUAL MASTER IS ONE. ”
AGREED AGAIN. BOTH OF THEM ARE MY REPRESENTATIVES mean both way or both of them Siksha Guru and Diksha Guru are Representatives of the Supreme Personality of Godhead in the disciplic succession. Therefore, both are Mahabhagvata, Self Realized Representatives, no doubt about it.
That is exactly what I mean to say also in my comments ;
Amar Puri: ” Actually, the Sastras says that there is no difference between the Siksha and Diksha Guru because both ways He is the Self Realized Soul. A constant and consistent Self Realized Guru directly or through the Practitioners of His VANI give instructions to a curious person in the beginning aka the Siksha Guru in cultivating KC. and later on with His regular instructions, He becomes Diksha Guru automatically. ”
The best example I can recite is that at the time of Maharaja Prikisit when the Srimad Bhagavatam was spoken to him by Srila Sukhdev Gosvami, all the qualified Gurus were also present in the assembly. Therefore, Srila Sukhdev Gosvami becomes automatically the Diksha and Siksha Guru of Maharaja Prikisit despite the facts that there were many qualified Siksha Gurus were present there.
That is what I refer to Siksha and Diksha Gurus description in my comments.
OM TAT SAT.
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Note: Siksa means INSTRUCTION. Many devotees can give instructions. One has to see if the Instruction is from Srila Prabhupada if it is against what he said – that is detrimental. Mahabhagavata is the one who gives Diksa and Siksa – also.
740704BG.HON Lectures
Prabhupada: Then so siksa and diksa-guru… A siksa-guru who instructs against the instruction of spiritual, he is not a siksa guru. He is a demon. Siksa-guru, diksa-guru means… Sometimes a diksa-guru is not present always. Therefore one can take learning, instruction, from an advanced devotee. That is called the siksa-guru. Siksa-guru does not mean he is speaking something against the teachings of the diksa-guru. He is not a siksa-guru. He is a rascal.
Note: here we see HOW POWERFUL Mahabhagavata Diksa AND Siksa Guru Srila Prabhupada is able to come thru various mediums to give siksa(instruct):
PoP 8 Failure and Success in Yoga
IN THIS REGARD, THERE IS THE EXAMPLE OF BILVAMANGALA THAKURA, WHO, IN HIS PREVIOUS LIFE, WAS ELEVATED ALMOST TO PREMA-BHAKTI, THE HIGHEST PLATFORM OF DEVOTIONAL SERVICE. However, since there is always a chance for a falldown, somehow or other he fell down. In his next life, he was born in a very rich brahmana family, in accordance with the principle enunciated in the Sixth Chapter of Bhagavad-gita (6.41): sucinam srimatam gehe. Unfortunately, as is often the case with rich boys, he became a prostitute hunter. YET IT IS SAID THAT HIS SPIRITUAL MASTER INSTRUCTED HIM THROUGH HIS PROSTITUTE, SAYING, “OH, YOU ARE SO ATTACHED TO THIS MERE FLESH AND BONES. IF YOU WERE THIS MUCH ATTACHED TO KRSNA, HOW MUCH GOOD YOU MIGHT ACHIEVE!” IMMEDIATELY BILVAMANGALA THAKURA RESUMED HIS DEVOTIONAL SERVICE.
ALTHOUGH THE SPIRITUAL MASTER ASSUMES RESPONSIBILITY FOR HIS DISCIPLE, WE SHOULD NOT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS. RATHER, WE SHOULD TRY TO PLEASE THE SPIRITUAL MASTER (YASYA PRASADAD BHAGAVAT-PRASADAH). WE SHOULD NOT PUT OUR SPIRITUAL MASTER IN SUCH A POSITION THAT HE HAS TO RECLAIM US FROM A HOUSE OF PROSTITUTION. But even if he has to do so, HE WILL DO IT, because he assumes this responsibility when he accepts his disciple.
The bhakti-yoga process should be completed in this life, because in this life we have all the instruments necessary to become fully Krsna conscious. We have mrdangas and cymbals and tongues with which to chant Hare Krsna. Even if we don’t have mrdangas and cymbals, we have a tongue. No one has to purchase a tongue. We also have ears with which to hear the sound that the tongue vibrates. Therefore we have all the instruments we need with us–a tongue and ears. We have only to chant Hare Krsna and use our ears to hear this vibration, and all perfection will be there. We don’t have to become highly educated scientists or philosophers. We have only to chant and hear.
SB 1.11.19 P Lord Krsna’ s Entrance into Dvaraka
SRI BILVAMANGALA THAKURA, A GREAT ACARYA OF THE VISNUSVAMI VAISNAVA SECT, IN HIS HOUSEHOLDER LIFE WAS OVERLY ATTACHED TO A PROSTITUTE WHO HAPPENED TO BE A DEVOTEE OF THE LORD. One night when the Thakura came to Cintamani’s house in torrents of rain and thunder, Cintamani was astonished to see how the Thakura could come on such a dreadful night after crossing a foaming river which was full of waves. She said to Thakura Bilvamangala that his attraction for the flesh and bone of an insignificant woman like her would be properly utilized if it could be diverted to the devotional service of the Lord to achieve attraction for the transcendental beauty of the Lord. IT WAS A MOMENTOUS HOUR FOR THE THAKURA, AND HE TOOK A TURN TOWARDS SPIRITUAL REALIZATION BY THE WORDS OF A PROSTITUTE. LATER ON THE THAKURA ACCEPTED THE PROSTITUTE AS HIS SPIRITUAL MASTER, AND IN SEVERAL PLACES OF HIS LITERARY WORKS HE HAS GLORIFIED THE NAME OF CINTAMANI, WHO SHOWED HIM THE RIGHT PATH.
Adi 1.57 The Spiritual Masters
Bilvamangala Thakura actually entered into the transcendental pastimes of Lord Krsna. He has recorded his transcendental experiences and appreciation in the book known as Krsna-karnamrta. In the beginning of that book he has offered his obeisances to his different gurus, and it is to be noted that he has adored them all equally. THE FIRST SPIRITUAL MASTER MENTIONED IS CINTAMANI, WHO WAS ONE OF HIS INSTRUCTING SPIRITUAL MASTERS BECAUSE SHE FIRST SHOWED HIM THE SPIRITUAL PATH. CINTAMANI WAS A PROSTITUTE WITH WHOM BILVAMANGALA WAS INTIMATE EARLIER IN HIS LIFE. SHE GAVE HIM THE INSPIRATION TO BEGIN ON THE PATH OF DEVOTIONAL SERVICE, AND BECAUSE SHE CONVINCED HIM TO GIVE UP MATERIAL EXISTENCE TO TRY FOR PERFECTION BY LOVING KRSNA, HE HAS FIRST OFFERED HIS RESPECTS TO HER. NEXT HE OFFERS HIS RESPECTS TO HIS INITIATING SPIRITUAL MASTER, SOMAGIRI, AND THEN TO THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD, WHO WAS ALSO HIS INSTRUCTING SPIRITUAL MASTER. HE EXPLICITLY MENTIONS BHAGAVAN, WHO HAS PEACOCK FEATHERS ON HIS CROWN, BECAUSE THE LORD OF VRNDAVANA, KRSNA THE COWHERD BOY, USED TO COME TO BILVAMANGALA TO TALK WITH HIM AND SUPPLY HIM WITH MILK. In his adoration of Sri Krsna, the Personality of Godhead, he describes that Jayasri, the goddess of fortune, Srimati Radharani, takes shelter in the shade of His lotus feet to enjoy the transcendental rasa of nuptial love. The complete treatise Krsna-karnamrta is dedicated to the transcendental pastimes of Sri Krsna and Srimati Radharani. It is a book to be read and understood by the most elevated devotees of Sri Krsna.
As described in the example of the CC Adi 1.57, SB. 1.11.19 and other references of the Sastras quoted in his comments by Mahesh Prabhu with regard to the example of Instructing Spiritual Master Cintamani who showed Bilvamangala Thakura Spiritual Path of Devotional service by inspiring and convincing him to give up material existence to try for perfection by Loving Krsna is certainly the perfect characterization of a Self Realized soul regardless of the Profession.
The same thing our Jagat Guru Srila Prabhupada was a Chemist, a family man, and a business person but he has had a Perfect Characterization of Self Realized Soul through out his Profession.
That is why He is known as a Self realized Soul.
More later, Prabhu, if need be.
OM TAT SAT.
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
69-07-11. Letter: Jayapataka
YOU HAVE ASKED IF IT IS TRUE THAT THE SPIRITUAL MASTER REMAINS IN THE MATERIAL UNIVERSE UNTIL ALL OF HIS DISCIPLES ARE TRANSFERRED TO THE SPIRITUAL SKY. THE ANSWER IS YES, THIS IS THE RULE. THEREFORE, EVERY STUDENT SHOULD BE VERY MUCH CAREFUL NOT TO COMMIT ANY OFFENSE WHICH WILL BE DETRIMENTAL TO THIS PROMOTION TO THE SPIRITUAL KINGDOM, AND THEREBY THE SPIRITUAL MASTER HAS TO INCARNATE AGAIN TO DELIVER HIM. THIS SORT OF MENTALITY WILL BE A KIND OF OFFENSE TO THE SPIRITUAL MASTER. OUT OF THE TEN KINDS OF OFFENSES, THE NUMBER ONE OFFENSE IS TO DISOBEY THE ORDERS OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER. The instructions given to the disciple by the Spiritual Master at the time of initiation should be strictly followed. That will make one advance to the spiritual path. BUT IF ONE DELIBERATELY DEFIES SUCH INSTRUCTIONS, THEN HIS ADVANCEMENT IS HAMPERED FROM THE VERY BEGINNING. THIS DEFYING MEANS TO DISCONNECT THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE SPIRITUAL MASTER. AND ANYONE WHO DEFIES AND THEREFORE DISCONNECTS THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE SPIRITUAL MASTER CAN HARDLY EXPECT THE ASSISTANCE OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER LIFE AFTER LIFE. I hope this will clear up this question sufficiently for you.
68-09-20. Letter: Satsvarupa
OUR RELATIONSHIP IS ETERNAL. BUT IF SOMEBODY LAGS BEHIND, SO IN SPITE OF OUR ETERNAL RELATIONSHIP ONE MAY NOT MEET OTHER AT THE DESTINATION. JUST LIKE A FLOCK OF BIRDS–ALTHOUGH VERY INTIMATELY RELATED, EVERYONE OF THEM HAS TO FLY IN THE SKY BY INDIVIDUAL STRENGTH. IF ONE IS LESS STRONG, THE OTHER CANNOT KEEP HIM IN THE SKY. THAT IS THE LAW OF NATURE. So long everyone of us is strong in Krishna Consciousness, there is no doubt, you can fly in the spiritual sky and meet together without failure. Therefore, individual strength is most important. And that individual strength is achieved in the association of devotees also. So you can make your own judgment.
Note: as long as we OBEY Srila Prabhupada as HIS Disciple(AS PER July 9th 1977 RITVIK Instruction) our BONAFIDE Diksa AND siksa guru Srila Prabhupada is with us LIFE AFTER LIFE to deliver us:
In a song we sing every day, Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, cakṣu-dāna dila yei, janme janme prabhu sei: the guru gives spiritual insight to the disciple, and therefore the guru should be considered his master, LIFE AFTER LIFE. Under no circumstances should the guru be disrespected, but the demigods, being puffed up by their material possessions, were disrespectful to their guru. Therefore Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (11.17.27) advises, ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān nāvamanyeta karhicit/ na martya-buddhyāsūyeta: THE ĀCĀRYA SHOULD ALWAYS BE OFFERED RESPECTFUL OBEISANCES; ONE SHOULD NEVER ENVY THE ĀCĀRYA, CONSIDERING HIM AN ORDINARY HUMAN BEING.
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/sb/6/7/21
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Devotee: If we don’t finish our Kṛṣṇa consciousness in this life, how we come in contact with the guru in next life?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that arrangement will be done, you go on with your business. We are singing this song daily. Why do you forget? Cakhu-dān dilo jei JANME JANME PRABHU SEI. ONE WHO HAS OPENED THE EYES, HE’LL REMAIN MY MASTER LIFE AFTER LIFE.
Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda!
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/classes/bg/15/15/august_5/august/05/1976
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The MEANING of the word “disciple”
Srila Prabhupada’s Morning Walk, March 8, 1976 in Mayapur:
Prabhupada: “Discipline… Disciple means discipline. The word discipline comes from disciple, or disciple comes from discipline. So unless there is discipline, there is no question of disciple. This discipline must… That should be uniform. Otherwise, sisya… sisya, the word sisya, it comes from the root, verb, sas-dhatu. sas. sas means ruling. From this word, sasana. Sasana means government. sastra. sashtra means weapon, and sastra, scripture, and sisya… These things have come from the one root sas-dhatu. So sas-dhatu means ruling under discipline. There is another English word, that “Obedience is the first law of discipline,” or something. They say, “Obedience is the first law of discipline”? So I am right? “Obedience is…”? That is the…
Tamala Krsna: Yes, that’s more or less what it is.
Prabhupada: No, what is the word, exact. There is an English word. “Obedience is the first law of discipline.” So unless there is obedience, there cannot be any discipline. And unless there is discipline, there is no question of disciple. DISCIPLE MEANS ONE WHO FOLLOWS DISCIPLINE.”
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Srila Prabhupada Letter, January 11, 1970:
“Regarding your question of an initiated person falling prey to the maya, the answer is that so long we are in this material world, there is always chance of being spoiled by Maya, so we must stick with vow to the Lotus Feet of Krishna. An initiated devotee is given the chance for becoming free from the entanglement of karma wheel. Initiated means beginning, not perfection. The Spiritual Master’s business is to guide him to the perfectional point. But if one does not strictly follow the guidance of a BONAFIDE Spiritual Master HIS INITIATION DOES NOT BEAR ANY MEANING. The initiation performance is an agreement by the disciples to abide by the order of the Spiritual Master. Therefore, if the Spiritual Master is bonafide and the disciple is serious to abide by His order, then the success is sure.”
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Srila Prabhupada speaks:
1)“The answer to your Istagosthi questions are as follows: Unless one is a resident of Krishna Loka, one cannot be a Spiritual Master. That is the first proposition. A layman cannot be a Spiritual Master, and if he becomes so then he will simply create disturbance.…….. So to summarize the whole thing, it is to be understood that a bona fide Spiritual Master is a resident of Krishna Loka.
Letter to: Mukunda
New Vrindaban
10 June, 1969
2) Conversation 760530R1: HONOLULU 30 May 1976
“So all my disciples are expected to become śikṣā-guru on my order…”
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:
Śrīla Prabhupāda, I am just trying to clarify—I don’t want to offend anyone—but no disciple of yours should call himself dīkṣā-guru or śikṣā-guru. Am I right?
Srila Prabhupada:
Well, everyone is engaged to become śikṣā-guru, but one should become perfect. The attempt is—what is called?—probationer. When probationer period is finished, then he is naturally, automatically, bona fide guru. Not in the probationer period. That is immature attempt. That will failure. Āmāra ājsāya (CC Madhya 7.128), Caitanya Mahāprabhu said: “By My order.” So all my disciples are expected to become śikṣā-guru on my order, not by his own order. That is meaning I am giving sannyāsa, I am sending you to different places, so this means that you have to carry out the order of the guru very strictly; then you become mature. Otherwise it will be artificial attempt, and that kind of guru will not help. Just like there are so many gurus and avatāras and yogīs are coming.
Yfs,
Balaram das
Mahesh Prabhu quotes Srila Prabhupada Letter January 11, 1970 in which we read as ; ” ……. The Spiritual Master’s business is to guide him to the perfectional point…. ”
That is indeed the point which confirms that The Siksha Guru and / or Diksha Guru is / are Self Realized Soul. That is what I have stated through out in my comments.
An Advanced Devotee, a Practitioner of cultivating KC can not be a Siksha Guru. He is simply a Preacher preaching the bonafide VANI on behalf of the Authorized Bona fide Spiritual Master in the disciplic succession and therefore, he can not be accepted as a Siksha Guru or any type of a Guru for that matter.
To call and / or accept such a person as A Siksha Guru is known and considered in the eyes of the Sastras ( as brought out in my comments ) a MISLEADING AND A CHEATING process itself simply to receive some sort of a Prathistha by becoming a Siksha Guru when one is an Advanced devotee / Preacher in the process of preaching KC. and let alone declaring or becoming himself a Diksha Guru as it is going on in the present FIskcon management as well as in the Vaishnava Goudiya Maths community world wide.
This is the point that I wish to make it.
OM TAT SAT.
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Hare Krsna, Prabhus
I would like ask this quotation:
“The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I am in the initiator guru, and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This I want.”
(https://prabhupadabooks.com/letters/detroit/august/04/1975/madhudvisa)
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Does this quotation mean this or not?
– SIKSA GURU: This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This I want.
– 2) Conversation 760530R1: HONOLULU 30 May 1976
“So all my disciples are expected to become śikṣā-guru on my order…” (Balaram Prabhu)
– GBC should mean the advanced devotees – Siksa Gurus – and they should choose Ritvik Representatives.
Hare Krsna
Hare Krishna. It is my understanding that the term Siksa Guru refers to the activity itself and is not meant to be a ‘title’ which is bestowed upon someone. Anyone who is preaching and following Srila Prabhupada’s message is Siksa Guru (even a child or a woman!). Siksa Guru (and also Vartma Pradarsak) are not ‘job descriptions’, though this has been the practice in the FISKCON camp, which is used as form of ‘mind control’ for money screwing and sense gratification. FISKCON “leaders” who promote this nonsense are simply demons as they do not follow Srila Prabhupada’s order but deny, change, and distort his teachings. We are not even approaching the platform of Srila Prabhupada, so we will make mistakes, but by immediately correcting our mistakes we are protected by Lord Sri Krishna by the acceptance of the instructions of our sole Diksa Guru and Founder Acharya of ISKCON Srila Prabhupada.
The ‘rank and file’ of FISKCON are like the ‘mainstream dumb populace’ as they do not question the demonic, psychopathic parasites who control and brainwash them as they have been conditioned since birth ‘not to rock the boat’. Through many years of conditioning and ‘mind control’ they become deluded into some kind of ‘false affection’ for these ”leaders” who in reality despise them, with careless contempt!
These minions and fools do not understand that these ”leaders” are simply pretenders and are perpetually taking them ‘for a ride’, cheating them, and making fools out of them………but the sycophantic follower is thinking ”Oh! my ”guru” (or leaders) really care about me! and even though I am bewildered, my best interest is better served by “following” and not question anything!”. This is called “Stockholm Syndrome” and “Cognitive Dissonance!”
Dear Learned Readers,
The followings are some of the Quotes from Srila Prabhupada’s Vani to His motivated Devotees with regard to become ” guru ”
“The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I am in the initiator guru, and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This I want.”
(https://prabhupadabooks.com/letters/detroit/august/04/1975/madhudvisa)
Conversation 760530R1: HONOLULU 30 May 1976 ;
“So all my disciples are expected to become śikṣā-guru on my order…”
These leaders are / were very much Greedy, no doubt, to become ” guru ” regardless of their qualification and characterization in cultivating Krsna Consciousness. Srila Prabhupada knew it very well as it appears from His Instructions to these motivated people who are / were desirous to become ” guru ” as quoted by the Participants under this discussion . That is why HDG. Srila Prabhupada gave such various instructions for them to follow with regard to become ” guru ” whenever He was encountered during such situation of becoming a ” guru “.
When we the Students – Followers / Devotees read through these Instructions of becoming ” guru ” with the sincere and serious approach to understand what Srila Prabhupada says and describes the description of Siksha Guru and Diksha Guru in His VANI, it is easy to understand that Siksha Guru and the Diksha Guru is / are Self Realized Soul. There is no doubt about it.
Vartma Pradarsak is indeed referred to a person ” Practitioner ” in the process and practice of cultivating Krsna Consciousness when we come to think about it. So, he is not a Siksha Guru rather he is the representative of the Perfect Siksha Guru and the Diksha Guru in the bona fide line of the disciplic succession to preach to the people. That is all Vartma Pradarsak person is known. To accept him as a Siksha Guru is certainly a misleading and misunderstanding which creates lots of unnecessary confusion as we see it.
That is why our Jagat Guru Srila Prabhupada, the Commendar – in – Chief introduces the Ritvik system and procedure in His VANI to carry forward the mission of Shri Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu for thousands of years to come in order to deliver the bewildered and conditioned Jivas of all sorts to go back Home back to Godhead.
OM TAT SAT.
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Dear Amar Puri Prabhu
Guru is not a title but the activity! If the “leaders” were/are Greedy to become guru, then there wouldn’t be a problem! We should all be greedy to follow and repeat Srila Prabhupada’s message (undiluted, unchanged and unadulterated) to others for the benefit of all. These so called leaders were/are greedy to become pseudo (false) “guru” and servants of Kali that is all, as guru refers to the activity and is not a ‘position of office’ like a Governor or King. To become such pseudo “leaders” they engaged in poisoning Srila Prabhupada in an attempt to hasten the process by which they could usurp his position as authority.
Only His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, Founder Acharya of ISKCON is Diksa Guru (and no other) by his own order. There is however no difference between Diksa, Siksa and Vartma Pradarsak………In my humble opinion, Guru is one, as the activity is the same.
Sudarsana Prabhu, we all agree to that GURU is ONE, be a Siksha Guru and Diksha Guru which means a Self Realized Soul.
Vartma Pradarsak is subject to four defects whereas the Self Reazlied Siksha / Diksha Guru is totally free from these defects. That is the difference as explained by our Jagat Guru Srila Prabhupada Letter to: Satyabhama, Paramananda dated 74-07-20 which reads ;
” ……….The spiritual master is one, that is a fact. KIRTANANANDA SWAMI MAY BE TAKEN A SADHU NOT SPIRITUAL MASTER, OR AS INSTRUCTOR GURU.”
Hope it clarifies.
OM TAT SAT.
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Note: ONLY IF one speaks what Srila Prabhupada speaks – THEN – he is Siksa Guru:
74-07-20. Letter: Satyabhama, Paramananda
Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter undated and have noted the contents carefully. IF KIRTANANANDA MAHARAJA SPEAKS WHAT I SPEAK, THEN HE CAN BE TAKEN A SIKSA GURU. Guru sastra sadhu. The spiritual master is one, that is a fact. KIRTANANANDA SWAMI MAY BE TAKEN A SADHU NOT SPIRITUAL MASTER, OR AS INSTRUCTOR GURU.
Mahesh Prabhu, please read carefully what Srila Prabhupada says with regard to what you are quoting from ;
” ……….The spiritual master is one, that is a fact. KIRTANANANDA SWAMI MAY BE TAKEN A SADHU NOT SPIRITUAL MASTER, OR AS INSTRUCTOR GURU.”
Not Spiritual Master or as Instructor Guru which means Siksha Guru. He should not be taken as a Spiritual Master or as Instructor Guru as Srila Prabhupada clearly writes. Isn’t it ?
Herebelow I reproduce the letter for the kind perusal of our Learned Readers ;
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
Letter to: Satyabhama, Paramananda
—
New Vrindaban
20 July, 1974
74-07-20
New Vrindaban
My Dear Satyabhama and Paramananda:
Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter undated and have noted the contents carefully. If Kirtanananda Maharaja speaks what I speak, then he can be taken a siksa guru. Guru sastra sadhu. The spiritual master is one, that is a fact. Kirtanananda Swami may be taken a sadhu not spiritual master, or as instructor guru. I don’t think he is saying anything against our principles, so what is the wrong?
You have written that the devotees here say that you cannot know me, but only Kirtanananda Maharaja can know me. But, if Kirtanananda is a disciple and he can know me, and you are also a disciple, why you cannot know me? I have no objection to your taking Kirtanananda’s instruction. There is no harm in going through Kirtanananda.
You are both old disciples, so why you should be feeling any difficulty?
I hope this meets you in good health.
Your ever well wisher,
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami
ACBS/bs
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/letters/new_vrindaban/july/20/1974/satyabhama/paramananda
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
After throughly reading and understanding the contents why Srila Prabhupada writes this ; ” … IF KIRTANANANDA MAHARAJA SPEAKS WHAT I SPEAK, THEN HE CAN BE TAKEN A SIKSA GURU. Guru sastra sadhu. …. ” and ignoring the other contents in the letter does not establish and validate the fact that ” He can be taken a Siksa Guru If Kirtanananda Maharaja speaks what I speak “. This is not a validation at all because further Srila Prabhupada clearly clarify in his writing ; ” …KIRTANANANDA SWAMI MAY BE TAKEN A SADHU NOT SPIRITUAL MASTER, OR AS INSTRUCTOR GURU. ”
Therefore, your writing ; ” Note: ONLY IF one speaks what Srila Prabhupada speaks – THEN – he is Siksa Guru:” is incompletely written and understood which does not validate at all as to what Srila Prabhupada letter describes, and moreover it leads to create unnecessary confusion, Mahesh Prabhu.
There is no offence to your writing but merely a suggestion that the complete writing should be supported to validate the point for a better understanding of the Readers as pointed out in my comments.
Hope it clarifies.
OM TAT SAT.
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Amar Prabhu,
The guru is one: the MEDIUM he chooses to appear IN to INSTRUCT (siksa) you IS DIFFERENT. That ONE guru Srila Prabhupada is VERY POWERFUL to give SIKSA(INSTRUCTION) in ANY MEDIUM:
Srila Prabhupada is VERY powerful he can APPEAR ANYWHERE in ANY MEDIUM to give SIKSA. In the case of Bilvamangala Thakura his guru Somagiri appeared in a PROSTITUTE to INSTRUCT him THRU that PROSTITUTE:
PoP 8 Failure and Success in Yoga
IN THIS REGARD, THERE IS THE EXAMPLE OF BILVAMANGALA THAKURA, WHO, IN HIS PREVIOUS LIFE, WAS ELEVATED ALMOST TO PREMA-BHAKTI, THE HIGHEST PLATFORM OF DEVOTIONAL SERVICE. However, since there is always a chance for a falldown, somehow or other he fell down. In his next life, he was born in a very rich brahmana family, in accordance with the principle enunciated in the Sixth Chapter of Bhagavad-gita (6.41): sucinam srimatam gehe. Unfortunately, as is often the case with rich boys, he became a prostitute hunter. YET IT IS SAID THAT HIS SPIRITUAL MASTER INSTRUCTED HIM THROUGH HIS PROSTITUTE, SAYING, “OH, YOU ARE SO ATTACHED TO THIS MERE FLESH AND BONES. IF YOU WERE THIS MUCH ATTACHED TO KRSNA, HOW MUCH GOOD YOU MIGHT ACHIEVE!” IMMEDIATELY BILVAMANGALA THAKURA RESUMED HIS DEVOTIONAL SERVICE.
ALTHOUGH THE SPIRITUAL MASTER ASSUMES RESPONSIBILITY FOR HIS DISCIPLE, WE SHOULD NOT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS. RATHER, WE SHOULD TRY TO PLEASE THE SPIRITUAL MASTER (YASYA PRASADAD BHAGAVAT-PRASADAH). WE SHOULD NOT PUT OUR SPIRITUAL MASTER IN SUCH A POSITION THAT HE HAS TO RECLAIM US FROM A HOUSE OF PROSTITUTION. But even if he has to do so, HE WILL DO IT, because he assumes this responsibility when he accepts his disciple.
Adi 1.35 The Spiritual Masters
THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SPIRITUAL MASTER’S INSTRUCTIONS AND THE SPIRITUAL MASTER HIMSELF.
Note: to be SIKSA guru one has to carry out the INSTRUCTIONS EXACTLY in order that Srila Prabhupada gave:
75-08-04. Letter: Madhudvisa:
The GBC should ALL be the INSTRUCTOR GURUS. I AM IN THE INITIATOR GURU, and you should be the INSTRUCTOR guru BY TEACHING WHAT I AM TEACHING AND DOING WHAT I AM DOING. This is NOT A TITLE, but you must actually come to this platform. This I want.
Hare Krsna
“Regarding Sydney, that the President has left, if one does not follow the regulative principles, then he will leave. That is a fact. Has somebody else been elected? This is the function of the GBC, to see that one may not be taken away by maya. The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I am in the initiator guru, and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This I want.”
(Srila Prabhupada’s letter Madhudvisa Swami Detroit 4 August, 1975)
Madhudvisa Swami was a member of GBC
Acting as siksa gurus means not only preaching.
——————–
A Vaisnava does not want to become someone (siksa guru and so on):
The actual Vaisnava always feels himself lowly and unqualified, but this submissiveness and humbleness is his actual qualification for becoming perfect in Krishna Consciousness. In material life everyone is thinking that I am so wonderful, I am so expert, but actually the living entity is an insignificant spark of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Sri Krishna. So when we see we are becoming aware of our infinitesimal nature, then we begin to also understand something of how infinitely great Krishna is. One cannot be falsely puffed up and still expect to make progress in spiritual life. Rather one must learn to accept his constitutional position of Krishna’s tiny servant. Then Krishna is pleased to reveal Himself to such devotee, and the devotee becomes more and more perfect in rendering transcendental service to the Lord.
(Srila Prabhupada’s letter to: Gajendra—Los Angeles 20 July, 1969)
Hare Krsna
Marici Das : A Vaisnava does not want to become someone (siksa guru and so on)
Mahesh: correct. Srila Prabhupada says, “This is NOT a title”. Siksa guru is NOT a title. The process is to INSTRUCT others (give siksa) in the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā:
So our request is that every one of you become a guru. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s order. He wants that everyone must become a guru. How? That He says:
yāre dekha tāre kaha ‘kṛṣṇa’-upadeśa
āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra’ ei deśa
[Cc. Madhya 7.128]
This is guru. Suppose you are family member. So many living entities, you sons, your daughters, your daughter-in-law, or children, you can become their guru. Exactly like this you can sit down in the evening and talk about the Bhagavad-gītā, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. You haven’t got to manufacture something. The instruction is there; you simply repeat and let them hear—you become guru. It is not difficult at all. So that is our preaching. We do not want to become alone guru, but we want to preach in such a way that every, the chief man, or any man, he can become guru in his surroundings. Anyone can do that. Even a coolie, he can also, he has got family, he has got friends, so even though he is illiterate, he can hear the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, and he can preach the same. This we want. And we invite all respectable gentlemen, leaders, to learn this, it is very simple: man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65], and by executing this order of Kṛṣṇa, he assures, mām evaiṣyasi, “You come to Me.” Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. Very easy thing.
So our only request is the leaders of the society should take up the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā very seriously, learn himself, and teach to others. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is not at all difficult; it is very easy. Everyone can do it. But the result will be that as soon as you understand, people understand Kṛṣṇa, janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ [Bg. 4.9], anyone who understands Kṛṣṇa, the result is tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti… After giving up this body he does not accept any more material body; he stays in his spiritual identity and enjoys the society of Kṛṣṇa. That is Vṛndāvana. Gopījana-vallabha. Kṛṣṇa… Kṛṣṇa, Vṛndāvana means that Kṛṣṇa is the center. He is the lovable object of everyone. The gopīs, the cowherd boys, the calves, the cows, the trees, the fruits, flowers, the father, mother—everyone is attached to Kṛṣṇa. That is Vṛndāvana. So this is replica, this Vṛndāvana, and there is real Vṛndāvana. This is also real. In the absolute there is no difference. But for our understanding there is original Vṛndāvana,
cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-
lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam
lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānaṁ
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
[Bs. 5.29]
veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda-dalāyatākṣaṁ
barhāvataṁsam asitāmbuda-sundarāṅgam
kandarpa-koṭi-kamanīya-viśeṣa-śobhaṁ
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
[Bs. 5.30]
This is the description, Goloka Vṛndāvana.
So there is dhāma, panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara, beyond this material world, so if we like, we can go there. Mad-yājino ‘pi yānti mām, Kṛṣṇa says. You can go to the higher planetary system,
yānti deva-vratā devān
pitṝn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ
bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā
yānti mad-yājino ‘pi mām
[Bg. 9.25]
If you are preparing to go to some other, better planet, that is the chance in the human being. But if you live like cats and dog, then where is promotion, where is Kṛṣṇa, and where is Goloka? Everything is spoiled. Our only request is don’t spoil your time, valuable time. Be prepared for being transferred to Kṛṣṇa. And the method is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Take to it and be benefited.
Thank you very much.
Devotees: Haribol. Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda! (end)
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/classes/bg/7/1/bombay/december/20/1975
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Note:Just like that CHILD, Sarasvati’s, PREACHING, “Do you know Krsna?” He says, “No.” “He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.” Simply say like that, “He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead,” and “Chant His holy name, Hare Krsna.” If you do this, then you are preacher; you are spiritual master
741003SB.MAY Lectures
So these books, Srimad-Bhagavatam, Bhagavad-gita, are there, and many other books, Puranas and others… They are simply describing the activities of Krsna so that you can understand Krsna. That… There is a verse in Caitanya-caritamrta: anadi bahirmukha jiva nahi jnana, krsna… Means “From, since a very, very long time, he has forgotten Krsna.” Just like anyone you can ask, in this country even, and what to speak of others, that “Do you know Krsna?” So you’ll find so many, I mean to say, major portion, people, will say, “No, we do not know what is Krsna.” JUST LIKE OUR SYAMASUNDARA’S DAUGHTER, SARASVATI. SHE PREACHES, “DO YOU KNOW WHAT IS KRSNA?” EVEN ONE KNOWS, BECAUSE HE (SHE) IS CHILD: “NO, NO. I DO NOT KNOW.” “OH, SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD,” SHE WILL SAY. She is so intelligent. She will say. So similarly, we can do. We can do Krsna’s service like this. EVEN A CHILD CAN DO. YOU GO. AS CAITANYA MAHAPRABHU SAYS, YARE DEKHA TARE KAHA KRSNA-UPADESA. THAT BECOMES… YOU BECOMES SPIRITUAL MASTER. If you take this vow, that “I’ll preach only Krsna,” then you are spiritual master. You become spiritual…
yāre dekha, tāre kaha ‘kṛṣṇa’-upadeśa
āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra’ ei deśa
Just like that child, Sarasvati’s, preaching, “Do you know Krsna?” He says, “No.” “He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.” Simply say like that, “He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead,” and “Chant His holy name, Hare Krsna.” If you do this, then you are preacher; you are spiritual master. It is so nice. You don’t require to become very… Caitanya Mahaprabhu says that yāre dekha, tāre kaha ‘kṛṣṇa’-upadeśa. He does not say that you become a learned Vedic scholar. That is the goal of Vedic scholarship. If you simply know that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then your Vedic study finished. You are M.A., doctor of Krsna philosophy, simply if you know this. You may not know in details, but if you simply believe, firmly convinced, that “Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He is my master. He is my savior,” in this way, if you accept, then you become perfect, and you become liberated.
Respected Learned Readers,
Kindly read my reply appended below in CAP. letter ;
Mahesh Raja says:
8. October 2018 at 11:32 am
Amar Prabhu,
The guru is one: the MEDIUM he chooses to appear IN to INSTRUCT (siksa) you IS DIFFERENT. That ONE guru Srila Prabhupada is VERY POWERFUL to give SIKSA(INSTRUCTION) in ANY MEDIUM:
Srila Prabhupada is VERY powerful he can APPEAR ANYWHERE in ANY MEDIUM to give SIKSA.
– AGREED PRABHU. THAT IS VERY TRUE.
In the case of Bilvamangala Thakura his guru Somagiri appeared in a PROSTITUTE to INSTRUCT him THRU that PROSTITUTE:
– YES INDEED, SRILA SOMAGIRI ( BEING A SELF REALIZED SIKSHA / DIKSHA GURU ) CAN APPEAR IN ANY MEDIUM TO GIVE INSTRUCTION TO THE SINCERE AND SERIOUS STUDENTS ANY WHERE ANY TIME. THERE IS NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT. THE SAME WAY HDG. SRILA PRABHUPADA CAN APPEAR ALSO VIA ANY MEDIUM OF INSTRUCTIONS TO THE QUALIFIED RECIPIENT.
PLEASE NOTE ; ONLY THE SELF REALIZED PERSONALITY HAS SUCH AUTHORITY OF THE POWER TO INSTRUCT THROUGH ANY SOURCE OF MEDIUM OR VIA ANY BODY TO GIVE INSTRUCTIONS TO THE QUALIFIED RECIPIENT.
A VARTMA PRADARSAK OR THE GBC FOR THAT MATTER SRILA PRABHUPADA INSTRUCTS CLEARLY THAT YOU BECOME THE INSTRUCTOR i.e. A VARTMA PRADARSAK ( guru ) PREACHING AND TEACHING WHAT I AM DOING. THIS IS NOT A TITLE (OF BECOMING EITHER SIKSHA OR DIKSHA GURU ) AS CLEARLY EXPLAINED IN THE FOLLOWING QUOTE ;
“Regarding Sydney, that the President has left, if one does not follow the regulative principles, then he will leave. That is a fact. Has somebody else been elected? This is the function of the GBC, to see that one may not be taken away by maya. The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I am in the initiator guru, and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This I want.”
(Srila Prabhupada’s letter Madhudvisa Swami Detroit 4 August, 1975)
SO WHERE IS THE PROBLEM ?
WHERE IS THE CONFUSION IN READING SRILA PRABHUPADA’S INSTRUCTIONS ?
I HUMBLY INVITE SOME BODY FROM THE LEARNED READERS TO PLEASE WALK THIS MLEECHA, LOWLY GRADED SOUL THROUGH THE QUOTES FROM SRILA PRABHUPADA WHERE HE SAYS SPECIFICALLY THAT ALL OF YOU BECOME SIKSHA GURU WITHOUT A CONDITION SUCH AS THIS ;
” This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This I want.”
THE ABOVE CITED INSTRUCTION INDICATE THAT SIKSHA AND DIKSHA GURU IS ONE AND THE SAME, AND OUR JAGAT GURU HDG. SRILA PRABHUPADA IS THE ONE SUCH SIKSHA / DIKSHA GURU FOR MANY THOUSANDS OF YEARS TO COME.
WE THE FOLLOWERS AND THE DEVOTEES ARE SIMPLY A MESSENGER OR A CARRIER OF SRILA PRABHUPADA’S VANI WHO ARE PRACTISING TO BECOME A VARTMA PRADARSAK.
THAT IS MY HUMBLE OPINION IN THE UNDERSTANDING OF THE SIKSHA / DIKSHA GURU WHO IS NONE OTHER THAN OUR BELOVED MASTER JAGAT GURU HDG. SRILA PRABHUPADA.
OM TAT SAT.
HARE KRISHNA. ALL GLORIES TO SRILA PRABHUPADA.
Dear Learned Readers,
Why Srila Prabhupada instructs in the letter Madhudvisa Swami Detroit 4 August, 1975 which reads ;
” …… This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This I want.”
The answer is that since the GBC GURUS i.e. Siksha Gurus to be did not follow and carry forward the instructions of the Spiritual Master As It Is described in the Sastras , therefore, Srila Prabhupada laid down the CONDITION as mentioned above according to Sastra C.C. Madhya 7 -128 which reads as ;
” āmāra ājñāya—under My order …..”.
UPON THE ORDER OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER, HDG. SRILA PRABHUPADA, One can only become the Siksha Guru FREE FROM ANY CONDITION. Otherwise NOT.
Meanwhile, WE THE FOLLOWERS AND THE DEVOTEES ARE SIMPLY A MESSENGER OR A CARRIER OF SRILA PRABHUPADA’S VANI WHO ARE SINCERELY AND SERIOUSLY PRACTISING TO BECOME A VARTMA PRADARSAK as a Practitioner in the Science of Preaching exactly our Jagat Guru HDG. Srila Prabhupada desires.
So under the circumstances, it is my humble opinion and request that let us NOT create any more CONFUSION of promoting to become SIKSHA GURU by quoting from Srila Prabhupada’s VANI and moreover, let us try to understand as to why Srila Prabhupada instructs so with the CONDITION for the many many many generations to come so that the GENERATIONS may carry forward Srila Prabhupada’s VANI As It Is to propagate Lord Shri Krishna Chaitanya Mission for thousands of years.
OM TAT SAT.
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
“Guru is one”means,NOT that the Shiksha Guru who may not be a fully realized soul and the Diksha Guru Self realized soul are equal in all respects, but that because the message is the same without alteration,in that sense it is said to be “one”. One in agreement.
Hare Krsna
THERE ARE TWO KIND OF INSTRUCTING SPIRITUAL MASTERS
—————————–
“One should know the instructing spiritual master to be the Personality of Kṛṣṇa. Lord Kṛṣṇa manifests Himself as the Supersoul and as the greatest devotee of the Lord.
Purport:
Śrīla Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī states that the instructing spiritual master is a bona fide representative of Śrī Kṛṣṇa. Śrī Kṛṣṇa Himself teaches us as the instructing spiritual master from within and without. From within He teaches as Paramātmā, our constant companion, and from without He teaches from the Bhagavad-gītā as the instructing spiritual master.
There are two kinds of instructing spiritual masters.
One is the liberated person fully absorbed in meditation in devotional service, and the other is he who invokes the disciple’s spiritual consciousness by means of relevant instructions. Thus the instructions in the science of devotion are differentiated in terms of the objective and subjective ways of understanding. The ācārya in the true sense of the term, who is authorized to deliver Kṛṣṇa, enriches the disciple with full spiritual knowledge and thus awakens him to the activities of devotional service.
When by learning from the self-realized spiritual master one actually engages himself in the service of Lord Viṣṇu, functional devotional service begins. The procedures of this devotional service are known as abhidheya, or actions one is dutybound to perform. Our only shelter is the Supreme Lord, and one who teaches how to approach Kṛṣṇa is the functioning form of the Personality of Godhead. There is no difference between the shelter-giving Supreme Lord and the initiating and instructing spiritual masters. If one foolishly discriminates between them, he commits an offense in the discharge of devotional service.
Śrīla Sanātana Gosvāmī is the ideal spiritual master, for he delivers one the shelter of the lotus feet of Madana-mohana. Even though one may be unable to travel on the field of Vṛndāvana due to forgetfulness of his relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he can get an adequate opportunity to stay in Vṛndāvana and derive all spiritual benefits by the mercy of Sanātana Gosvāmī. Śrī Govindajī acts exactly like the śikṣā-guru (instructing spiritual master) by teaching Arjuna the Bhagavad-gītā. He is the original preceptor, for He gives us instructions and an opportunity to serve Him. The initiating spiritual master is a personal manifestation of Śrīla Madana-mohana vigraha, whereas the instructing spiritual master is a personal representative of Śrīla Govindadeva vigraha. Both of these Deities are worshiped at Vṛndāvana. Śrīla Gopīnātha is the ultimate attraction in spiritual realization.”
(CC Adi 1.47.)
——————
Hare Krsna
There are TWO kinds of INSTRUCTING spiritual masters.
ONE is the LIBERATED person fully absorbed in meditation in devotional service, AND THE OTHER is he who invokes the disciple’s spiritual consciousness by means of relevant instructions.
(CC Adi 1.47.)
1) ONE is the LIBERATED ie. Srila Prabhupada
2) the OTHER????? : AND THE OTHER is he who invokes the disciple’s spiritual consciousness by means of relevant instructions
Hare Krsna Vadiraja Prabhu,
Vadiraja acbsp says:”Guru is one”means,NOT that the Shiksha Guru who may not be a fully realized soul and the Diksha Guru Self realized soul are equal in all respects, but that because the message is the same without alteration,in that sense it is said to be “one”. One in agreement.”
————————
Dhruva had a feeling of obligation to his mother, Sunīti. It was Sunīti who had given him the clue which had now enabled him to be personally carried to the Vaikuṇṭha planet by the associates of Lord Viṣṇu. He now remembered her and wanted to take her with him.
Actually, Dhruva Mahārāja’s mother, Sunīti, was his patha-pradarśaka-guru. Patha-pradarśaka-guru means “the guru, or the spiritual master, who shows the way.” Such a guru is sometimes called śikṣā-guru.
Although Nārada Muni was his dīkṣā-guru (initiating spiritual master), Sunīti, his mother, was the first who gave him instruction on how to achieve the favor of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is the duty of the śikṣā-guru or dīkṣā-guru to instruct the disciple in the right way, and it depends on the disciple to execute the process. According to śāstric injunctions, there is no difference between śikṣā-guru and dīkṣā-guru, and generally the śikṣā-guru later on becomes the dīkṣā-guru. Sunīti, however, being a woman, and specifically his mother, could not become Dhruva Mahārāja’s dīkṣā-guru. Still, he was not less obliged to Sunīti.
There was no question of carrying Nārada Muni to Vaikuṇṭhaloka, but Dhruva Mahārāja thought of his mother. …
(SB 4.12 Purport)
———————-
Hare Krsna
Patha-pradarśaka-guru means “the guru, or the spiritual master, who shows the way.” Such a guru is
sometimes called śikṣā-guru.
(SB 4.12 Purport)
Note: there are some devotees who think that the those who have usurped Srila Prabhupada’s Diksa Guru position,defied his July 9th 1977 Ritvik Order – stolen his disciples, stolen the temples, stolen the BBT , changed Srila Prabhupada’s Original books, stolen his money, given Srila Prabhupada poison—— can be reformed. Can the CON artists who pose as Diksa gurus by usurping Srila Prabhupada’s Diksa Guru position (AS PER HIS instructions July 9th 1977 Ritvik Order) and their accomplices be reformed?
Can IS_CON be reformed?
Here is the PRACTICAL reality:
751017mw.joh Conversations
Pusta Krsna: Is it possible to reform a person against their will?
Prabhupada: NO, NOT POSSIBLE. (break)
Pusta Krsna: …sign, Srila Prabhupada, that someone is actually having change in heart?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Pusta Krsna: WHAT IS THE SIGN THAT SOMEONE IS ACTUALLY HAVING CHANGE IN HEART?
Prabhupada: BY HIS ACTION. (break) …KASIPU TRIED TO MAKE PRAHLADA ATHEIST. HE FAILED. AND PRAHLADA TRIED TO MAKE HIS FATHER THEIST. HE FAILED. DON’T YOU SEE?
Pusta Krsna: Yes.
Prabhupada: SO UNLESS ONE AGREES YOU CANNOT TURN HIM. IT IS NOT POSSIBLE. Five-years’-old boy, staunch devotee, and the powerful Hiranyakasipu, father, who is threatening with his life and so many ways he tried that “You become atheist, godless. Otherwise I shall kill you.” He did not agree. And similarly, the son also solicited the father that “You have got so much power by the grace of God. Why you are becoming atheist?” BOTH OF THEM COULD NOT TURN TO THEIR SIDE. PRAHLADA REMAINED PRAHLADA, AND HIRANYAKASIPU REMAINED HIRANYAKASIPU. (break) …can expect that WITHOUT AGREEING, CONCEDING, ONE CAN BE REFORMED. NO, THAT IS NOT POSSIBLE. IMPOSSIBLE.
Pusta Krsna: Not simply by rubber stamp.
Prabhupada: No, that is NOT possible. He MUST agree, “Yes.” Therefore guru is required. Guru means, accept guru means, “Whatever you say, I will accept.” That is guru. Otherwise friendly talk. FRIENDLY TALK WILL NOT DO. TO ACCEPT GURU MEANS “NOW I ACCEPT YOU, GURU, MY INSTRUCTOR, WITHOUT ANY ARGUMENT,” AND THAT IS ACCEPTANCE. “WHATEVER YOU SAY, I SHALL DO.” THAT IS AGREEMENT. THEN HE CAN BE REFORMED. SISYAS TE ‘HA SADHI MA PRAPANNAM: “I SURRENDER UNTO YOU. I BECOME YOUR DISCIPLE. NOW YOU TRAIN ME.” THEN HE CAN BE REFORMED. OTHERWISE NOT POSSIBLE. (break)
Devotee: When we were at school we accept a teacher and he teaches us mathematics or something like this, but when it comes to spiritual life and we accept a guru, people criticize by saying, “Oh, you’re not thinking for yourself anymore.”
Prabhupada: Yes, you have surrendered. You say, “Yes, we have surrendered. That is the way.” Tad viddhi pranipatena. The first term is “surrender,” pranipata. Otherwise it is not possible. If one does not surrender, there is no question of reformation. He must voluntarily surrender: “Yes. Whatever you say, I shall do.” Then things can be advanced. Otherwise not possible. (end)
Conclusion:
SB 6.7.14 Indra Offends His Spiritual Master, Brhaspati.
A stone boat would be unable to float and would sink in the water with its passengers. SIMILARLY, THOSE WHO MISLEAD PEOPLE GO TO HELL, AND THEIR FOLLOWERS GO WITH THEM.
72-12-14. Letter: Tusta Krsna
As for your next question, can only a few pure devotees deliver others, anyone, if he is a pure devotee he can deliver others, he can become spiritual master. But unless he on that platform he should not attempt it. THEN BOTH OF THEM WILL TO GO TO HELL, LIKE BLIND MEN LEADING THE BLIND.
Note: Only thing left is to EXPOSE THE ANTI RITVIK CROOKS:
730503mw.la Conversations
Prabhupada: No, it is Sanskrit. And in Bengal it is called vane asiya raja.(?) “In the forest a jackal has become king.” They are like that. Nila-varna-srigalavat.(?) When… There is big story about this jackal. I will tell you some. A jackal came in the village and he fell in the tub where, what is called, the water? No, no. The water man keeps the water for dipping, making
little bluish. For coloring. That blue, blue. So the washerman kept the dye water in a big tub, and the jackal fell in it. So jackal fell in it; he became blue, all blue. So he fled away, and all the animals said, “What is this animal? What is the animal? What is that animal? Oh?” All, even lion became surprised. “We have not seen this.” “So who are you, sir?” “I am sent by God to rule over you.” “Oh?” So they began to worship him as God, as leader. Then one day other jackals, they were crying, “Wa, wa,” but the jackals cannot stop. If others jackals cry, the jackal cannot stop. So he also began to “Wa, wa.” Oh, then, they, oh, this rascal is a jackal. Yavat kincin na bhasate. That these rascals are jackals. Now they are talking nonsense. We can detect that “Here is a jackal.” SO WE HAVE TO EXPOSE THEM. THEY ARE NOT LEADER; THEY ARE JACKALS. SO JACKALS CANNOT ANYMORE RULE OVER. THAT SHOULD BE OUR PROPAGANDA. NOT ONLY SCIENTIFIC, ALL POLITICAL THINGS, SOCIAL THINGS, EVERYTHING. They should be all kicked out. They should be replaced by Krsna consciousness. Then people will be happy. This should be our program. Our, this propaganda means to make people happy. It is not a business, to make business and take some money. And so many jackals have been arrested and resigned in your… You know that? Many jackals have been obliged to resign their post in the government.
Brahmananda: That is Watergate affair.
721016SB.VRN Lectures
SO WHEN YOU BECOME ACTUALLY PREACHER OF GOD CONSCIOUSNESS, YOU CANNOT MAKE ANY COMPROMISE. YOU MUST CALL THE SPADE A SPADE. Just like Prahlada Maharaja. Prahlada Maharaja is one of the mahajanas. Out of the twelve mahajanas, he’s one of them. Because he was very bold. He was not afraid of his demonic father. He chastised him in so many ways. But he was never afraid. So just like our people are being persecuted in Australia. You know? They have been put into jail because they are preaching Hare Krsna. So this is not very easy thing, easy-going. My Guru Maharaja, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja, he did not like that his disciples would be easy-going, cheap Vaisnava.
Note: ALTHOUGH SOMETIMES THE TRUTH IS UNPALATABLE, ONE SHOULD NOT REFRAIN FROM SPEAKING IT
Bg 10.4-5 P The Opulence of the Absolute
Asammoha, freedom from doubt and delusion, can be achieved when one is not hesitant and when he understands the transcendental philosophy. Slowly but surely he becomes free from bewilderment. Nothing should be accepted blindly; everything should be accepted with care and with caution. Ksama, forgiveness, should be practiced, and one should excuse the minor offenses of others. Satyam, truthfulness, means that facts should be presented as they are for the benefit of others. Facts should not be misrepresented. According to social conventions, it is said that one can speak the truth only when it is palatable to others. But that is not truthfulness. THE TRUTH SHOULD BE SPOKEN IN A STRAIGHT AND FORWARD WAY, SO THAT OTHERS WILL UNDERSTAND ACTUALLY WHAT THE FACTS ARE. IF A MAN IS A THIEF AND IF PEOPLE ARE WARNED THAT HE IS A THIEF, THAT IS TRUTH. ALTHOUGH SOMETIMES THE TRUTH IS UNPALATABLE, ONE SHOULD NOT REFRAIN FROM SPEAKING IT. Truthfulness demands that the facts be presented as they are for the benefit of others. That is the definition of truth.
FISKCON like practically every religion, Catholic (Knights of Malta, Jesuits), Protestant (Knights of St John), Evangelists (funding Zionist “settlements”), Salvation Army, Mormons, Bahai, Sunni Muslims all controlled by Freemason Jews and Crypto Jews. Either infiltrated or “created” by them over 2 millennia. India has been controlled by Britain and the Rothschilds for centuries. The opium trade and the slave trade are ever-present and have not gone away this is evident in India’s complicity in complying with Rothschilds Banking “reforms” and increased subjugation of the vast majority of India’s poor.
The whole world is run by jackals and psychopaths who are highly organized unbeknown to the vast majority of fools and half-wits who support them, vote for them, and worship them.
The ”Jackal who fell in the dye” was no doubt the inspiration for Freemason Illuminati writer Rudyard Kipling’s ‘The Man who would be King” story (which was made into a movie in 1975, starring Sean Connery and Michael Caine). Kipling (of British Freemason parents) was born in India and was a member of several Freemason Lodges. This is a story about 2 Freemason Britishers who go to Afghanistan to trick the natives that they are ‘God’ in order to be ”worshiped” by them, cheat them and plunder their gold and treasure! They succeed by trickery and the foolishness of their prey until one is cut and ‘bleeds’, revealing to the natives that “they are not Gods!” Connery’s shirt is ripped, to plunge a blade into his chest when his Freemason pendant is revealed! and all the natives fall to their knees as this is the sign that they have ‘revered’ for centuries as “sacred” (you get the picture right?). They are once again ”in control” but Caine wants to leave with his part of the plunder (treasure) while Connery wants to stay (with the Chief’s daughter!)……How predictable is that?
This Illuminati story is RE-TOLD over and over and over again in many recent movies such as Avatar, Stargate (2), Pocahontas (animated), 10,000 BC, The Road to Eldorado (animated), The Lion King (animated), Alladin (animated), National Treasure 2 (City of Gold), Star Wars 6 (The Return of the Jedi) and even The Pirates of the Caribbean (Dead Man’s Chest) where Depp goes to an Island. He is mistaken for a “God” and then the ‘eyes’ are painted on his face. All of the producers, directors and “writers” of this rubbish are members of the Freemason Illuminati and visually use Masonic signs, symbolism diagrams and props to convey Masonic messages and themes.
The German homosexual, Freemason Director Roland Emeric (Independence Day) worked with the Freemasonic Illuminati NASA to depict great scenes of worldwide “catastrophe” in ‘The Day after Tomorrow’ which was “timed” with Freemason Al Gore’s false and widely discredited “Chicken Little” ‘CO2 global warming myth’ propaganda to secretly introduce Rothschilds’ Agenda 21. The dialogue in this movie ‘The Day after Tomorrow’ constantly talks about “THE SCIENCE” something which is REPEATED AND REPEATED OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN in the media!
To say that Hollywood (and the media) is completely controlled by the Freemason Illuminati is an understatement indeed.
Many other recent Hollywood Illuminati Propaganda movies involve ”rebirth” “self dietification, and “initiation” such as The Matrix, The Crow, Surrogates, Catwoman, The Unborn, Jumper etc, in which the “initiated” gains mystic power and higher knowledge (but is always subordinate to the initiator!). The movie ‘From Hell’ (Johnny Depp) depicts Freemason type rituals and incantations and the use of coffins where the initiated to be ”reborn” lies, and reveals all of his secrets (so they can always remain under the control of the “initiators”). In reality Skull and Bones (Yale) perform these similar “initiation” where they have to lie inside a coffin (naked), reveal all their secrets and are “reborn” as ‘Bonesmen’ (George H W Bush Snr, George Bush Jnr, John Kerry etc) and are told that they are now ‘superior’ to the human population and should use ‘WAR AND SUFFERING TO CONTROL THE PLANET!’
So this is of course is, “in line” with FISKCON as they are completely under the control of these same demons. The Freemason Illuminati that controls the world also controls FISKCON and being secretive and covert is only ”a mystery” to the fools and half-wits that they prey upon. The Bush administration murdered over a million persons in Iraq over a lie (weapons of mass destruction and 9/11, the latter being an “inside job” from the same administration, and Mossad!) This is ignorance! and the majority of people have forgotten this (to be repeated very soon!). Ignorance is evil in itself. These Crypto Jew FISKCON stooges will only be purified through pain, as to FOLLOW AND PREACH THE TEACHINGS OF SRILA PRABHUPADA AND DISTRIBUTE HIS ORIGINAL, UNADULTERATED, TRANSCENDENTAL BOOKS IS NOT POSSIBLE FOR THEM. THIS IS LIKE TRYING TO TEACH A SCORPION NOT TO BITE!
Hare Krsna Devotees
please accept my ecstatic obeisances !
All Glory to Srila Prabhupada !!!
Dear Sudarsana dasa Vanicari Prabhu,
Thank you for all your service to Srila Prabhupada, compiling and revealing by your research work what is going on behind the curtain, and which asuric factions are directing it, so that some people, who need to hear information in this way, may understand what is really going on in this age of godlessness, hypocrisy, and deceit, and also, what is the appropriate action after hearing this, which is surrendering to, and taking shelter of, Srila Prabhupada by following His Instructions.
from the movies you have referenced, which i have not seen all, i just wanted to touch on one from my angle of vision, trying to look through the eyes of Sastra. the movie “the matrix” of which i have seen many years ago, and after coming to Krsna Consciousness, was appreciated in a different way. it seemed to appear in my mind some years back and it seems/seemed to refer to our plight as individuals and also as a collective, myself, and others, who found themselves eyes wide asleep, in a cocoon, and a prisoner of our own devices, basically stuck in a “matrix”. this also is ultimately the predicament the main character of this movie is in, even though he is unaware of his situation until “waking up”, and neither was i.
when the gentlemen starts being inquisitive due to hearing, (first limb of devotional service to Sri Krsna), about the construct he is a prisoner in and of, this is when he is started to be directed to those who are no longer in the construct of the matrix, liberated souls, who can come and go at any time they so please. This sounds familiar to what Pure Devotees do, and the conclusion i drew was to Mahatmas, Mahajanas, Wonderful Glorious Souls that words cannot describe, like Narada Muni, and His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada, Who are completely free from the dictates of the 3 modes of material nature and have the ability to move everywhere and anywhere on the desires of Lord Krsna due to Them having no material desires, only striving to please Him.
So in the beginning of this tale, this inquisitiveness is the main theme, and is also one of the traits Lord Krsna mentions in the Gita that is beneficial to coming to Him and His Service. Due to the characters inquisitiveness, he eventually meets those whose he’s heard about, by a synchronistic, or divine/providential arrangement, and who seem to be in the Matrix, “material nature”, but are not governed by its principles. These people who the character meets are representatives of the “Guru” and ultimately the character eventually gets to meet the Guru, in person, after he is removed from the prison he has constructed for himself, of course, being totally aided in this process by the Gurus representatives and their mercy.
the parallel i have drawn is, basically us as a collective are rebellious to Lord Krsna, which is obvious, and imprisoned in matter due to our lusty desires, which in turns breeds our material consciousness, and therefore we cannot do anything about our predicament, because we don’t even know we are in a prison, that is, until we come in contact directly with his True Representative like Srila Prabhupada, or indirectly, by coming into contact with those who have been “freed” by Him, and who, if faithful, in turn introduce us to Him, Srila Prabhupada.
from my angle of vision, once the character has decided to embark on a new path, the real path, the ancient path of truth, and has taken steps in that direction, he is now born again, or twice born, because now he has knowledge of the truth i.e. the difference between the matrix and the liberated state he now finds himself in. after recuperating some and coming to the understanding that previously his life has been a complete lie, being drug around by his own conceited concoctions and selfishness, his training begins under the Guru’s tutelage. Here he is taught how to enter into the matrix but not be controlled or affected by it, knowing it is a temporary arrangement, and fighting against the elements who are keeping his siblings asleep and imprisoned in it. in this case for us, it would be us fighting against ignorance and those propagating it.
as you can probably already see, i have taken this movie as an analogy to our current situation here in this universe of death. We are always under the direction of someone or something, but when we come to a Bonafide Representative of Lord Krsna such as Srila Prabhupada and following His Instructions, then slowly or quickly, but surely, we begin to grow and gain in strength to fight with maya to free our mind from her control. Then, if we so desire, if we are appreciative and grateful, we try to introduce our sleeping siblings to Srila Prabhupada, since He is not, nor ever was, imprisoned like us, and as Srila Prabhupada has stated many times, and i am paraphrasing to some degree, we can only be freed by someone who is free. Those who have been “freed” by Srila Prabhupada all know Srila Prabhupada is perpetually free, and is who can free those who are not yet so.
obviously to me the movie overall is unfortunate, as those who produced it don’t have one million dollars, and so they can’t give one million dollars. if this was all centered directly around Sri Krsna, The Supreme Personality of Godhead, and His Pure Devotees like Srila Prabhupada, and Their work of freeing idiots like me from maya’s clutches, of which the movie is giving in an indirect way, it would be a magnificent arrangement. so all we can do is maybe explain the true meaning of this movie from this angle of vision if somehow it comes up when we are interacting with our sleeping siblings.
i hope this does not offend anyone, as if i accrue anymore of those negative marks, my outlook doesn’t look favorable. so please forgive this candala if it is the case. i Thank all you Devotees for your time and Jai Jai Jai Prabhupada !!!!
jason
Dear Learned Readers,
As discussed, based on the Sastras and the Guru describes ;
” There is no difference between the shelter-giving Supreme Lord and the initiating and instructing spiritual masters. If one foolishly discriminates between them, he commits an offense in the discharge of devotional service. ”
” ……….The spiritual master is one, that is a fact. KIRTANANANDA SWAMI MAY BE TAKEN A SADHU NOT SPIRITUAL MASTER, OR AS INSTRUCTOR GURU.”
” 72-12-14. Letter: Tusta Krsna
As for your next question, can only a few pure devotees deliver others, anyone, if he is a pure devotee he can deliver others, he can become spiritual master.”
Srila Prabhupada instructs in the letter Madhudvisa Swami Detroit 4 August, 1975 which reads ;
” …… This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This I want.”
Not Spiritual Master or as Instructor Guru which means Siksha Guru. He should not be taken as a Spiritual Master or as Instructor Guru as Srila Prabhupada clearly writes.
The guru is one: the MEDIUM he chooses to appear IN to INSTRUCT (siksa) you IS DIFFERENT. That ONE guru Srila Prabhupada is VERY POWERFUL to give SIKSA(INSTRUCTION) in ANY MEDIUM:
Srila Prabhupada is VERY powerful he can APPEAR ANYWHERE in ANY MEDIUM to give SIKSA.
– AGREED PRABHU. THAT IS VERY TRUE.
In the case of Bilvamangala Thakura his guru Somagiri appeared in a PROSTITUTE to INSTRUCT him THRU that PROSTITUTE:
– YES INDEED, SRILA SOMAGIRI ( BEING A SELF REALIZED SIKSHA / DIKSHA GURU ) CAN APPEAR IN ANY MEDIUM TO GIVE INSTRUCTION TO THE SINCERE AND SERIOUS STUDENTS ANY WHERE ANY TIME. THERE IS NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT. THE SAME WAY HDG. SRILA PRABHUPADA CAN APPEAR ALSO VIA ANY MEDIUM OF INSTRUCTIONS TO THE QUALIFIED RECIPIENT.
PLEASE NOTE ; ONLY THE SELF REALIZED PERSONALITY HAS SUCH AUTHORITY OF THE POWER TO INSTRUCT THROUGH ANY SOURCE OF MEDIUM OR VIA ANY BODY TO GIVE INSTRUCTIONS TO THE QUALIFIED RECIPIENT.
“Regarding Sydney, that the President has left, if one does not follow the regulative principles, then he will leave. That is a fact. Has somebody else been elected? This is the function of the GBC, to see that one may not be taken away by maya. The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I am in the initiator guru, and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This I want.”
(Srila Prabhupada’s letter Madhudvisa Swami Detroit 4 August, 1975)
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
Now we have to accept in reconciliation of the different description of understanding the Sanskrit Word ” GURU ” in an Ordinary Term i.e. an INSTRUCTOR GURU or a Siksha Guru in a GENERAL line for the Purpose of propagating the Mission of our Jagat Guru Srila Prabhupada as indicated according to the Sastra C.C. Madhya 7 -128 which reads as ; ” āmāra ājñāya—under My order …..”.
In the PARTICULAR line of understanding SIKSHA AND DIKSHA ” GURU ” is ONE who is none other than His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada.
That is my final understanding on this discussion.
OM TAT SAT.
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Amar Puri: In the PARTICULAR line of understanding SIKSHA AND DIKSHA ” GURU ” is ONE who is none other than His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada.
That is my final understanding on this discussion.
Mahesh: That is correct! The guru is ONE: ONLY the MEDIUM he chooses to appear IN to INSTRUCT (siksa) you IS DIFFERENT at times. That ONE guru Srila Prabhupada is VERY POWERFUL to give SIKSA(INSTRUCTION) in ANY MEDIUM:
Adi 1.35 The Spiritual Masters
THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SPIRITUAL MASTER’S INSTRUCTIONS AND THE SPIRITUAL MASTER HIMSELF.
Note: All one has to do is KNOW if the WORDS/INSTRUCTIONS are EXACTLY Srila Prabhupada’s words. If they happen to come thru some MEDIUM to help us they MUST be Srila Prabhupada’s words. THAT IS ALL. They MUST be Srila Prabhupada’s WORDS of instruction (Siksa). Then we KNOW Srila Prabhupada is talking thru someone to help us just like Bilvamangala Thakura he was such an advanced personality that he immediately took the INSTRUCTION(SIKSA) although this came thru a PROSTITUTE. So it is the INSTRUCTION(SIKSA) FROM Srila Prabhupada that we are concerned with. It does NOT matter WHERE it comes from. The ONLY stipulation is: it MUST be Srila Prabhupada’s words. ONE Guru. We have Guru,Sastra,sadhu for CONFIRMING if the instruction is the SAME. The instruction should NOT contradict Guru,Sastra,sadhu. We have Srila Prabhupada’s books,Cds,mp3s to help us.
Hare Krsna
I would like to say only one thing.
Many devotees used or use this sloka: “amara ajnaya guru hana tara ei desa”
According to Sridhara Maharaj’s teaching (GM): siksa guru is more important than initiatior guru and Sarasvat Thakura’s parampara line was line of siksa gurus.
They wanted to be gurus as Siksa gurus.
ISKCON devotees wanted to be also gurus and they “became” Diksa gurus.
The word “preacher” is a simple and humble approaching by Amar Puri Prabhu.
Hare Krsna
Marici Prabhu says ; ” According to Sridhara Maharaj’s teaching (GM): siksa guru is more important than initiatior guru and Sarasvat Thakura’s parampara line was line of siksa gurus.
They wanted to be gurus as Siksa gurus. ”
Adi 1.35 The Spiritual Masters
THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SPIRITUAL MASTER’S INSTRUCTIONS AND THE SPIRITUAL MASTER HIMSELF.
Therefore, the Particular Siksha Guru in the Authorized Disciplic Succession who gives constantly and consistently Siksha becomes the Diksha Guru automatically, Marici Prabhu,. There is no doubt about it.
” ISKCON devotees wanted to be also gurus and they “became” Diksa gurus. ”
Becoming an Ordinary Guru based on the Sastra C.C. Madhya 7 -128 ” āmāra ājñāya—under My order …..” is known as a General / Regular GURU.
Since they are not authorized by the ORDER of the Spiritual Master in the disciplic succession to become such Particulars Guru i.e. Authorized Guru to conduct the Siksha and Diksha business, therefore, they are known as BOGUS GURUS simply to collect the disciples for sense gratification. It is that simple Marici Prabhu.
OM TAT SAT.
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Those who committed Vaishnava Aparadha or the mad Elephant offense against Srila Prabhupada,have devastated the garden of the Bhakti Lata Bhija. “After they finish wit the Spiritual Master business,which they conduct strictly for sense gratification,they along with their disciples,will go down to the most obnoxious places in Hell”. Their present situation is their reaction for doing so. Krsna is the giver of Knowledge,so,he took it away. There are consequences as a result of the offenses,and atonement is out of the question,because they have misunderstood Krsna Consciousness,and it is through understanding of favorable and unfavorable things that one is able to avoid maintaining the offensive stand. When Prahlad Maharaja was tortured by Hiranya Kashipu,and challenged the Lord behind the pillars,the damage was done and his killing by the Lord couldn’t be reversed,as the Lord’s anger was justified and even great personalities like Lord Brahma couldn’t pacify the Lord,all and except Prahlada Maharaja,who stood before him with folded Hands. The Demigods were all bewildered. Such is Lord Amtramali’s reaction when his pure devotees are harassed.
Note: Was hearing this class today. This Anti Ritvik CROOKS think they can get away BUT the PUNISHMENT of LOWER grade of life is awaiting them. Only a matter of time:
750730SB.DAL
Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 6.1.48
—
Dallas, July 30, 1975
Nitai: “The omnipotent Yamarāja is as good as Lord Brahmā because although he is situated in his own abode or being situated in everyone’s heart like Paramātmā, by his mind he observes the past activities of a living entity, and according to that, by the same mind he understands how the living entity will act in his future life.”
Prabhupāda:
manasaiva pure devaḥ
pūrva-rūpaṁ vipaśyati
anumīmāṁsati apūrvaṁ
manasā bhagavān ajaḥ
[SB 6.1.48]
So now the Yamadūtas are describing about Yamarāja, who is as good as Brahmā. He is entrusted with the majestical power To Yamarāja not all the living beings are taken to, neither the animals, only the human being and those who are criminals or sinful, not all of them. First of all there are living entities, 8,400,000 forms, or species. So not all of them sinful and subjected to be brought for justice before Yamarāja. Just like magistrate, criminal magistrate. He is… In every city the district magistrate, not all the people are brought there, only the criminals. So he is so powerful that through his mind he can see the past and the future, tri-kāla-jñā, by mind. And because he is so powerful, he is addressed here as Bhagavān. I have several times explained, Bhagavān means the most powerful, full of opulences. So those who are in charge of departmental affairs within this universal kingdom, they are also sometimes addressed as Bhagavān. And Aja, Aja is Brahmā. Aja means who does not take birth. So Brahmā also did not take birth like ordinary human being. He sprouted like the lotus flower from the abdomen of Mahā Viṣṇu…, Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. Therefore he is called Aja or Svāyambhu, Svāyambhu: “personally born, not through the womb of the mother.” Brahmā was not born through the womb of mother; therefore he is called bhagavān ajaḥ.
SO THE MIND OF YAMARĀJA, HE CAN SEE. IN THE PREVIOUS VERSE IT IS SAID, VARTAMANAḥ ANYAYOḥ KĀLAḥ GUṇĀBHIJÑĀPAKO YATHĀ. WITHIN THIS MATERIAL WORLD WE ARE PASSING THROUGH MANY EVOLUTIONARY PROCESS AND GETTING DIFFERENT TYPES OF BODY ACCORDING TO THE GUṇA, QUALITY, MODES OF NATURE, WE ARE ASSOCIATING. SO YAMARAJA CAN SEE. WHEN A LIVING BEING, CRIMINAL, SINFUL LIVING BEING IS BROUGHT BEFORE HIM, HE CAN UNDERSTAND THROUGH HIS MIND. JUST SEE THAT EVERYONE’S MIND IS NOT OF THE SAME CATEGORY. THERE ARE DIFFERENCE OF MIND ALSO, ACCORDING TO THE POSITION. THAT WE HAVE GOT EXPERIENCE. A HIGH-COURT JUDGE’S MIND AND ORDINARY PERSON’S MIND—FAR DIFFERENT. THE JUDGES CAN IMMEDIATELY UNDERSTAND WHAT IS THE POSITION. SO THIS IS ALSO GOD’S GIFT. DIFFERENT PEOPLE HAVE GOT DIFFERENT POWER OF THE MIND. That is also through Kṛṣṇa. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ mattaḥ smṛtiḥ jñānam apohanaṁ ca [Bg. 15.15]. So mind means whose memory is very sharp, he is called great-minded. So this greatness of mind and smallness of mind are different according to the dictation of the Supersoul. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam… One man can remember small things for many years; another man forgets. Immediately he hears and immediately forgets. Why this difference of mental position? It is due to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa helps one to memorize or to forget. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca [Bg. 15.15]. One can, one has… Just like in school some student has got very sharp memory. Once heard from the teacher, he never forgets it. So these different stages are due to the association of different modes of material nature.
SO YAMARAJA, WHEN A PERSON IS BROUGHT BEFORE HIM, HE CAN IMMEDIATELY UNDERSTAND THAT “HE WAS SINFUL IN THIS WAY.” MANASA PURE DEVAḥ. OR YAMARĀJA IS SITTING IN HIS PLACE, BUT HE IS SEEING EVERYONE, WHAT HE IS DOING THROUGH THE SUN, THROUGH THE MOON. WE HAVE ALREADY DISCUSSED, THROUGH FIRE, THROUGH EVENING, THROUGH MORNING—THERE ARE SO MANY WITNESSES. AND ALL THOSE INFORMATION GOES TO HIM, AND BECAUSE HE IS ALMOST AS POWERFUL AS BHAGAVĀN, HE CAN REMEMBER. THIS IS SPECIAL POWER. MANASAIVA PURE DEVAḥ PŪRVA-RŪPAM. BECAUSE AFTER DEATH, ONE IS BROUGHT BEFORE YAMARĀJA, SO BEFORE HIS DEATH, WHAT HE WAS DOING SINFULLY, THAT IS ALL RECORDED IN THE MIND OF YAMARĀJA. MANASAIVA PURE DEVAḥ PŪRVA-RŪPAṁ VIPAŚYATI. BECAUSE THEY ARE SO RECORDED, HE CAN SEE VIVIDLY WHAT THIS MAN WAS DOING. ANUMĪMĀṁSATE APŪRVAM. APŪRVAM MEANS THE NEXT BODY. PŪRVAM MEANS THE PAST BODY, AND APŪRVAM THE NEXT BODY. SO HE IMMEDIATELY DECIDES WHAT KIND OF BODY THIS CRIMINAL, THIS SINFUL MAN, SHOULD BE OFFERED. ANUMĪMĀṁSATI APŪRVAṁ MANASĀ. THAT IS ALSO BY HIS MIND. HE IS SO POWERFUL. THEREFORE HE HAS BEEN ADDRESSED AS BHAGAVĀN. ANUMĪMĀṁSATI. JUST LIKE THE JUDGE. HE IS HEARING THE CASE. THAT IS EVERYONE. ANYONE WHO IS HEARING SOMETHING, SO HE MAKES A CONCLUSION, “THIS SHOULD BE DONE LIKE THAT.” The judgment…
There was one story. It is not story; it is fact, that two pleaders were talking about the activities of a criminal, and the judge was dozing. So his clerk said, “Sir, you are dozing. The two big lawyers, they are arguing, and what they will say?” That means he warned. The judge said, “I have already made my judgment. Let them go on talking.” So actually, it is done. A very important judge, he, by hearing the preliminary points of the case, he makes his judgment. But because the two lawyers want to fight, because they are paid for that, so they go on fighting. But the judge, he has already concluded what judgment should be given. Similarly, Yamarāja is judge. He has got everything recorded in his mind of a sinful man’s activities in the past. So immediately he decides that “This soul should be given such and such body.” So we are getting body.
In another place, in the Third Canto, I think, it is described, karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa [SB 3.31.1]. We are acting in different way. We are not independent. This is foolishness. Just like an outlaw. He is thinking that he is free from the jurisdiction of state laws, and he is working irresponsibly, but when he is arrested, then he has no independence. He has to undergo the punishment. Similarly, IN THIS LIFE WE MAY THINK VERY INDEPENDENT, “WHATEVER WE LIKE, WE CAN DO.” THAT IS FOOLISHNESS. YOU CANNOT DO THAT. IF YOU DO IT WILFULLY, THEN YOU WILL BE PUNISHED. THAT THEY DO NOT KNOW. PUNISHED MEANS BY A DIFFERENT BODY. IF A MAN, HUMAN BEING, IS PUNISHED TO STAND UP LIKE AS A TREE FOR FIVE THOUSAND YEARS, JUST IMAGINE HOW MUCH GREAT PUNISHMENT IT IS. AND THAT IS POSSIBLE. JUST LIKE IN THE ŚĀSTRA IT IS STATED THAT THOSE WHO WANT TO REMAIN NAKED, THEY ARE PUNISHED IN THE NEXT LIFE TO BECOME TREE, THAT “YOU WANTED TO BE NAKED. NOW YOU STAND NAKED.” THE TREES, THEY DO NOT DRESS; NEITHER THEY HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY. NOBODY GOES TO DRESS THEM. SO THEY STAND NAKED FOR SO MANY HUNDREDS AND THOUSANDS OF YEARS. THIS PUNISHMENT IS AWAITING. Human being is not supposed to be naked. That is civilization. They must cover. But if one wilfully does not cover, becomes as dull as the tree, then he gets the next body as tree. This is punishment. Otherwise, wherefrom all these living entities are coming? They have no calculation. They are thinking that “I shall remain in this human form of beautiful body and in opulent…” No, changing. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. You have to change your body according to the decision of superior authority, daiva-netreṇa. We should always remember it.
Therefore a human being should be very, very cautious and conscious. They should not do anything irresponsibly. And how to work with responsibility and how to work irresponsibly? Therefore śāstra required. Śāstra, these books, Vedic knowledge, books, why they are? So that a human being may take advantage of it and he act responsibly or irresponsibly. IF HE WORKS IRRESPONSIBLY, THEN HIS PUNISHMENT IS AWAITING, LOWER GRADE OF LIFE.
Hare Krsna Amar Puri Prabhu,
I understand you.
„ … I am now old man, and attacked with serious disease; I may be overcome by death at any moment. Therefore I wish to leave some TRAINED PREACHERS so that they can do the work of Krishna Consciousness in the western world. That is my ambition. I hope you all pray to Krishna so I may be able to execute my duty properly.”
(Letter to: Janardana, Hamsaduta, Himavati, Pradyumna – New York 28 June, 1967)
Hare Krsna
Marici Prabhu,
AGREED ONE HUNDRED PERCENT, Marici Prabhu quoting Perfect description of the Sanskrit Word ” GURU ” describing as the Trained Preachers according to the better understanding of the quote from the Sastra C.C. Madhya 7 -128 ” āmāra ājñāya—under My order …..” which is known as a General / Regular GURU
Only the Self Interested Motivated Preachers become vulnerable in the misrepresentation when they present the meaning of becoming a Siksha Gurus themselves for certain Prathistha to satisfy their whims as of the same Platform of the Authorized Siksha / Diksha Gurus to the Public in a general. That is a misleading which leads to all sorts of a cheating.
That kind of a Cheaters / Preachers so called Siksha Gurus in the Vaishnava dress are very very very dangerous people. That is what it leads to an mistaken understanding in a very subtle way when some one is addressed as a Siksha Guru.
That is why Srila Prabhupada writes in many places in His VANI using the word to become a Preacher instead of the word Siksha Guru where applicable.
Thank you Marici Prabhu for sharing your perfect thoughts of the Quote from Srila Prabhupada’s VANI.
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Conversation 760530R1: HONOLULU 30 May 1976
Srila Prabhupada: “So all my disciples are expected to become śikṣā-guru on my order…”
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I am just trying to clarify—I don’t want to offend anyone—but no disciple of yours should call himself dīkṣā-guru or śikṣā-guru. Am I right?
Srila Prabhupada: Well, everyone is engaged to become śikṣā-guru, but one should become perfect. The attempt is—what is called?—probationer. When probationer period is finished, then he is naturally, automatically, bona fide guru. Not in the probationer period. That is immature attempt. That will failure. Āmāra ājnāya (CC Madhya 7.128), Caitanya Mahāprabhu said: “By My order.”
So all my disciples are expected to become śikṣā-guru on my order, not by his own order. That is meaning I am giving sannyāsa, I am sending you to different places, so this means that you have to carry out the order of the guru very strictly; then you become mature. Otherwise it will be artificial attempt, and that kind of guru will not help. Just like there are so many gurus and avatāras and yogīs are coming.
Yfs, Balaram das.