WHATEVER STATE OF BEING ONE REMEMBERS

WHATEVER STATE OF BEING ONE REMEMBERS
WHEN HE QUITS HIS BODY,
THAT STATE HE WILL ATTAIN WITHOUT FAIL.

750207BG.HAW
Bhagavad-gītā 16.11-12
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This is nature’s law. If you take more than you can digest, then immediately there will be indigestion, means you cannot assimilate so much food. That is nature’s law. If you touch fire, either you touch or your innocent child touch, the fire will burn it. Fire will not consider that “Here is a child. Let me excuse.” No, it will burn. This is nature’s law. Similarly, the thoughts which you are maintaining during your lifetime, if that THOUGHT becomes PROMINENT—naturally it becomes—at the time of death, then you are going to get a similar body. If you are thinking like a demon, then you get the demon’s body next life. And if you are thinking like a devotee, then you get your next life back to home, back to Godhead. This is nature’s law.
Therefore, if you practice instead of thinking like the demons, how to gratify senses… That is the demonic thought. They are concerned with this body. If you think of Kṛṣṇa, how to serve Him, that is your perfection of life. Because you’ll think at the time of death of Kṛṣṇa. Ante nārāyaṇa-smṛtiḥ [SB 2.1.6]. That is the perfection of life. Ante, at the time of death, if you remember Kṛṣṇa, then your life is successful. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. So we have to do like that, not like the asuras or demons. Thinking must be there, but if you think of this body—how to keep it very comfortably, how to enjoy senses, how to have more money, how to have more men or women, how to see naked dance, how to do, how to this, how to this—then you are demon. And at the time of death, naturally we shall think of. Then I get again demonic life or animal life or tree life.
There are so many different forms of life. That is in our presence. Before us there are so many examples. If you get a life of a tree, naked… Tree is naked. He’s not ashamed to remain naked. And for ten thousand years you stand up. Wherefrom this life comes? It requires thought. Why the world is not full of one kind of forms of life? Why there are different types of life? Because different desires and nature’s law. Nature’s law, there is no excuse, the same thing, that if a child even touches fire, nature is not very merciful. It will burn. Similarly, at the time of death we have to think very rightly. That is required. That is human life. You have to train yourself in such a way that at the time of death you think of Kṛṣṇa.
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/classes/bg/16/11-12/hawaii/february/07/1975
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So if you become perfect in Kṛṣṇa consciousness… Perfect in Kṛṣṇa consciousness means no more material desire. That’s all. Only Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection. So long you will have a pinch of material desire, you will have to take birth. According to your desire, Kṛṣṇa will give you facility. Why there are so many types of body, eight million? Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram, sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ [Bg. 8.6]. We are making our next body BY THINKING OF SOMETHING. We have got so many thoughts, material thoughts. So at the time of death, when that THOUGHT is PROMINENT, then I get the next moment a body like that. So if you simply think of Kṛṣṇa only, then you get a body where by which you can go to Kṛṣṇa. You can go to Kṛṣṇa. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma [Bg. 4.9]. It is very scientific and very practical. So by going to Kṛṣṇa, you can talk with Kṛṣṇa personally. You can play with Kṛṣṇa personally. You can dance with Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa-loka. Just like we have got a picture, rāsa dancing. Here is picture, Kṛṣṇa’s. Everyone can get this opportunity. Therefore Kṛṣṇa comes to show practically how enjoyable life with Kṛṣṇa in Vṛndāvana. Kṛṣṇa is simply jolly, ānandamayo ‘bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). In Vṛndāvana life you will see, everyone is jolly. The birds, trees and the water, the land, the cows, the calves, the inhabitants, the cowherd boys—everyone is happy simply by loving Kṛṣṇa. Simply by loving Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa therefore manifests His līlā that “Why you are rotting in this material world? Come to Me and enjoy life eternally.” That is Kṛṣṇa business. He is so kind. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata [Bg. 4.7]. People, when they become debauch to enjoy life in this material world… What is the enjoyment? The last enjoyment is sex life. Is that very good enjoyment? But they have accepted. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. Maithuna means sex intercourse. That is their life and soul. They do not know. They have no information. There is better pleasure, eternal pleasure. That they do not know.
Therefore there is need of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement to understand that… What is that? Niśamya bhagavan-mārgam, The way of God. The rascals do not understand what is God, they do not know what is the feature of God, and still, they will not accept this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are giving, “Here is God. Here is the form of God. He is so nice. He is so beautiful. His address is this. You can go there by this process.” “No. We don’t want.” “Then what you want?” “I want to become a pig. (laughter) That’s all.” “All right, you become pig. What can be done? And what shall you eat?” “I will eat stool. That’s all.” “All right. Not prasādam?” “No.”
So what can we do? We are distributing you prasādam, and he will go to eat some rascal thing in the restaurant. Just see. This is misfortune. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ [SB 1.1.10]. Because unfortunate in this age, they will accept something wrong. Therefore our task is very responsible. We have to canvass. We have to plead, solicit, “Please come here. Please come here in this temple and learn something.”
Thank you very much. (end)
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/classes/sb/1/15/32/los_angeles/december/10/1973
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TEXT 6
yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ
tyajaty ante kalevaram
taṁ tam evaiti kaunteya
sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ
SYNONYMS
yam yam—whatever; vā—either; api—also; smaran—remembering; bhāvam—nature; tyajati—give up; ante—at the end; kalevaram—this body; tam tam—similar; eva—certainly; eti—gets; kaunteya—O son of Kuntī; sadā—always; tat—that; bhāva—state of being; bhāvitaḥ—remembering.
TRANSLATION
Whatever state of being ONE REMEMBERS when he quits his body, that state he will attain without fail.
PURPORT
The process of changing one’s nature at the critical moment of death is here explained. How can one die in the proper state of mind? Mahārāja Bharata THOUGHT of a deer at the time of death and so was transferred to that form of life. However, as a deer, Mahārāja Bharata could remember his past activities. Of course the cumulative effect of the THOUGHTS AND ACTIONS OF ONE’S LIFE INFLUENCES ONE’S THOUGHTS AT THE MOMENT OF DEATH; therefore the actions of this life DETERMINE ONE’S FUTURE STATE OF BEING. If one is transcendentally absorbed in Kṛṣṇa’s service,then his next body will be transcendental (spiritual), not physical. Therefore the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa is the best process for successfully changing one’s state of being to transcendental life.
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/bg/8/6
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TEXT 26
evam aghaṭamāna-manorathākula-hṛdayo mṛga-dārakābhāsena svārabdha-karmaṇā yogārambhaṇato vibhraṁśitaḥ sa yoga-tāpaso bhagavad-ārādhana-lakṣaṇāc ca katham itarathā jāty-antara eṇa-kuṇaka āsaṅgaḥ sākṣān niḥśreyasa-pratipakṣatayā prāk-parityakta-dustyaja-hṛdayābhijātasya tasyaivam antarāya-vihata-yogārambhaṇasya rājarṣer bharatasya tāvan mṛgārbhaka-poṣaṇa-pālana-prīṇana-lālanānuṣaṅgeṇāvigaṇayata ātmānam ahir ivākhu-bilaṁ duratikramaḥ kālaḥ karāla-rabhasa āpadyata.
SYNONYMS
evam—in that way; aghaṭamāna—impossible to be achieved; manaḥ-ratha—by desires, which are like mental chariots; ākula—aggrieved; hṛdayaḥ—whose heart; mṛga-dāraka-ābhāsena—resembling the son of a deer; sva-ārabdha-karmaṇā—by the bad results of his unseen fruitive actions; yoga-ārambhaṇataḥ—from the activities of yoga performances; vibhraṁśitaḥ—fallen down; saḥ—he (Mahārāja Bharata); yoga-tāpasaḥ—executing the activities of mystic yoga and austerities; bhagavat-ārādhana-lakṣaṇāt—from the activities of devotional service rendered to the Supreme Personality of Godhead; ca—and; katham—how; itarathā—else; jāti-antare—belonging to a different species of life; eṇa-kuṇake—to the body of a deer calf; āsaṅgaḥ—so much affectionate attachment; sākṣāt—directly; niḥśreyasa—to achieve the ultimate goal of life; pratipakṣatayā—with the quality of being an obstacle; prāk—who previously; parityakta—given up; dustyaja—although very difficult to give up; hṛdaya-abhijātasya—his sons, born of his own heart; tasya—of him; evam—thus; antarāya—by that obstacle; vihata—obstructed; yoga-ārambhaṇasya—whose path of executing the mystic yoga practices; rāja-ṛṣeḥ—of the great saintly King; bharatasya—of Mahārāja Bharata; tāvat—in that way; mṛga-arbhaka—the son of a deer; poṣaṇa—i n maintaining; pālana—in protecting; prīṇana—in making happy; lālana—in fondling; anuṣaṅgeṇa—by constant absorption; avigaṇayataḥ—neglecting; ātmānam—his own soul; ahiḥ iva—like a serpent; ākhu-bilam—the hole of a mouse; duratikramaḥ—unsurpassable; kālaḥ—ultimate death; karāla—terrible; rabhasaḥ—having speed; āpadyata—arrived.
TRANSLATION
Śukadeva Gosvāmī continued: My dear King, in this way Bharata Mahārāja was overwhelmed by an uncontrollable desire which was manifest in the form of the deer. Due to the fruitive results of his past deeds, he fell down from mystic yoga, austerity and worship of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. If it were not due to his past fruitive activity, how could he have been attracted to the deer after giving up the association of his own son and family, considering them stumbling blocks on the path of spiritual life? How could he show such uncontrollable affection for a deer? This was definitely due to his past karma. The King was so engrossed in petting and maintaining the deer that he fell down from his spiritual activities. In due course of time, insurmountable death, which is compared to a venomous snake that enters the hole created by a mouse, situated itself before him.
PURPORT
As will be seen in later verses, Bharata Mahārāja, at the time of death, would be forced to accept the body of a deer due to his attraction for the deer. In this regard, a question may be raised. How can a devotee be affected by his past misconduct and vicious activities? In Brahma-saṁhitā (5.54) it is said, karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām: “For those engaged in devotional service, bhakti-bhajana, the results of past deeds are indemnified.” According to this, Bharata Mahārāja could not be punished for his past misdeeds. The conclusion must be that Mahārāja Bharata PURPOSEFULLY became over-addicted to the deer and neglected his spiritual advancement. To immediately rectify his mistake, for a short time he was awarded the body of a deer. This was just to increase his desire for mature devotional service. Although Bharata Mahārāja was awarded the body of an animal, he did not forget what had previously happened due to his purposeful mistake. He was very anxious to get out of his deer body, and this indicates that his affection for devotional service was intensified, so much so that he was quickly to attain perfection in a brāhmaṇa body in the next life. It is with this conviction that we declare in our Back to Godhead magazine that devotees like the gosvāmīs living in Vṛndāvana who purposely commit some sinful activity are born in the bodies of dogs, monkeys and tortoises in that holy land. Thus they take on these lower life forms for a short while. and after they give up those animal bodies, they are again promoted to the spiritual world. Such punishment is only for a short period, and it is not due to past karma. It may appear to be due to past karma, but it is offered to rectify the devotee and bring him to pure devotional service.
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/sb/5/8/26
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Just like in English word, “Man is the architect of his own fortune.” Is it not? “Man is the architect of his own fortune.” But if you, as you are architect of your own fortune, you are architect of your own misfortune also.

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So whatever you are creating, you are creating by yourself. “Man is the architect of his own fortune.” So you are creating your fortune and misfortune, both. Kṛṣṇa is giving you facilities. “All right, you want this? All right, take this.”

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TEXT 2
ta ekadā tu rabhasā
purañjana-purīṁ nṛpa
rurudhur bhauma-bhogāḍhyāṁ
jarat-pannaga-pālitām
SYNONYMS
te—they; ekadā—once upon a time; tu—then; rabhasā—with great force; purañjana-purīm—the city of Purañjana; nṛpa—O King; rurudhuḥ—encircled; bhauma-bhoga-āḍhyām—full of sense enjoyments; jarat—old; pannaga—by the serpent; pālitām—protected.
TRANSLATION
Once the dangerous soldiers attacked the city of Purañjana with great force. Although the city was full of paraphernalia for sense gratification, it was being protected by the old serpent.
PURPORT
As one’s body engages in sense gratification, it becomes weaker and weaker daily. Finally the vital force becomes so weak that it is herein compared to a weak serpent. The life air has already been compared to the serpent. When the vital force within the body becomes weak, the body itself also becomes weak. At such a time the death symptoms—that is, the dangerous soldiers of death’s superintendent, Yamarāja—begin to attack very severely. According to the Vedic system, before coming to such a stage one should leave home and take sannyāsa to preach the message of God for the duration of life. However, if one sits at home and is served by his beloved wife and children, he certainly becomes weaker and weaker due to sense gratification. When death finally comes, one leaves the body devoid of spiritual assets. At the present time, even the oldest man in the family does not leave home, being attracted by wife, children, money, opulence, dwelling, etc. Thus at the end of life one worries about how his wife will be protected and how she will manage the great family responsibilities. In this way a man usually thinks of his wife before death. According to Bhagavad-gītā (8.6):
yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ
tyajaty ante kalevaram
taṁ tam evaiti kaunteya
sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ
“Whatever state of being one remembers when he quits his body, that state he will attain without fail.”
At the end of life, a person thinks of what he has done throughout his whole life; thus he gets another body (dehāntara) according to his THOUGHTS AND DESIRES at the end of life. One overly addicted to life at home naturally thinks of his beloved wife at the end of life. Consequently, in the next life he gets the body of a woman, and he also acquires the results of his pious or impious activities. In this chapter the acceptance of a woman’s body by King Purañjana will be thoroughly explained.
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/sb/4/28/2

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TEXT 21
prabhura viraha-sarpa lakṣmīre daṁśila
viraha-sarpa-viṣe tāṅra paraloka haila
SYNONYMS
prabhura—of the Lord; viraha-sarpa—the separation snake; lakṣmīre—Lakṣmīdevī; daṁśila—bit; viraha-sarpa—of the separation snake; viṣe—by the poison; tāṅra—her; para-loka—next world; haila—it so happened.
TRANSLATION
The snake of separation bit Lakṣmīdevī, and its poison caused her death. Thus she passed to the next world. She went back home, back to Godhead.
PURPORT
As stated in the Bhagavad-gītā (8.6), yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram: one’s practice in thinking throughout his entire life determines the quality of his thoughts at death, and thus at death one obtains a suitable body. According to this principle, Lakṣmīdevī, the goddess of fortune from Vaikuṇṭha, who was absorbed in thought of the Lord in separation from Him, certainly went back home to Vaikuṇṭhaloka after death.
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/cc/adi/16/21
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Hṛdayānanda: [break] (translating) …happens after death, where do we pick up?
Prabhupāda: That we have explained that you have to accept another body. And there are 8,400,000 different forms of body. And you will be awarded one of the bodies out of the 8,400,000. The body is awarded according to your karma or action. We are acting in three modes of material nature. Some of them are acting in goodness, some of them are acting in passion, and some of them are acting in ignorance. So there are three different modes of activities. Now, when you mix up three, three into three, it becomes nine. And again if you multiply nine by nine, it becomes eighty-one. So it increases in so subtle division of the mixture of the three qualities. Just like the painter. He knows how to mix the three original color, namely blue, yellow and red. The red color represents passion, and the yellow color represents ignorance, and the blue color represents goodness. So as the color painter, er, painter knows how to mix and make varieties of colors, similarly, the three modes of material nature being mixed up, they are represented in so many different forms of body. So at the present moment, in your human form of body, you are also mixing the same qualities in your different desires. That means you are creating your next body. So at the time of death THE THOUGHTS AND THE ACTIVITIES WHICH WILL BE PROMINENT WITHIN YOUR MIND, YOU WILL GET A SIMILAR BODY IN NEXT LIFE. Therefore the intelligent man should be very cautious to get the next body. We can get the body like God; we can get the body like the dog. Therefore the best intelligent person should try to endeavor to get the next body like God. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that you endeavor in this life so long you are alive to get a body like God. That will solve your all problems, namely birth, death, old age and disease. (someone speaks in Spanish) No, what he is speaking, first of all let.

Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/classes/bg/2/16/mexico_city/february/16/1975.

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Just like you infect some disease, nature’s law is that you must suffer from that disease. Nobody has got to do anything. The law is so… Nature’s law is like that. If you take more food than you can digest… (aside:) (child crying) Where is that child? Then immediately there will be dysentery. This is nature’s law. If you take more than you can digest, then immediately there will be indigestion, means you cannot assimilate so much food. That is nature’s law. If you touch fire, either you touch or your innocent child touch, the fire will burn it. Fire will not consider that “Here is a child. Let me excuse.” No, it will burn. This is nature’s law. SIMILARLY, THE THOUGHTS WHICH YOU ARE MAINTAINING DURING YOUR LIFETIME, IF THAT THOUGHT BECOMES PROMINENT—NATURALLY IT BECOMES—AT THE TIME OF DEATH, THEN YOU ARE GOING TO GET A SIMILAR BODY. IF YOU ARE THINKING LIKE A DEMON, THEN YOU GET THE DEMON’S BODY NEXT LIFE. AND IF YOU ARE THINKING LIKE A DEVOTEE, THEN YOU GET YOUR NEXT LIFE BACK TO HOME, BACK TO GODHEAD. THIS IS NATURE’S LAW.
Therefore, if you practice instead of thinking like the demons, how to gratify senses… That is the demonic thought. They are concerned with this body. If you think of Kṛṣṇa, how to serve Him, that is your perfection of life. Because you’ll think at the time of death of Kṛṣṇa. Ante nārāyaṇa-smṛtiḥ [SB 2.1.6]. That is the perfection of life. Ante, at the time of death, if you remember Kṛṣṇa, then your life is successful. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. So we have to do like that, not like the asuras or demons. Thinking must be there, but if you think of this body—how to keep it very comfortably, how to enjoy senses, how to have more money, how to have more men or women, how to see naked dance, how to do, how to this, how to this—then you are demon. And at the time of death, naturally we shall think of. Then I get again demonic life or animal life or tree life.
There are so many different forms of life. That is in our presence. Before us there are so many examples. If you get a life of a tree, naked… Tree is naked. He’s not ashamed to remain naked. And for ten thousand years you stand up. Wherefrom this life comes? It requires thought. Why the world is not full of one kind of forms of life? Why there are different types of life? Because different desires and nature’s law. Nature’s law, there is no excuse, the same thing, that if a child even touches fire, nature is not very merciful. It will burn. Similarly, at the time of death we have to think very rightly. That is required. That is human life. You have to train yourself in such a way that at the time of death you think of Kṛṣṇa.
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/classes/bg/16/11-12/hawaii/february/07/1975
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TEXT 64
nānubhūtaṁ kva cānena
dehenādṛṣṭam aśrutam
kadācid upalabhyeta
yad rūpaṁ yādṛg ātmani
SYNONYMS
na—never; anubhūtam—experienced; kva—at any time; ca—also; anena dehena—by this body; adṛṣṭam—never seen; aśrutam—never heard; kadācit—sometimes; upalabhyeta—may be experienced; yat—which; rūpam—form; yādṛk—whatever kind; ātmani—in the mind.
TRANSLATION
Sometimes we suddenly experience something that was never experienced in the present body by sight or hearing. Sometimes we see such things suddenly in dreams.
PURPORT
In dreams we sometimes see things that we have never experienced in the present body. Sometimes in dreams we think that we are flying in the sky, although we have no experience of flying. This means that once in a previous life, either as a demigod or astronaut, we flew in the sky. The impression is there in the stockpile of the mind, and it suddenly expresses itself. It is like fermentation taking place in the depths of water, which sometimes manifests itself in bubbles on the water’s surface. Sometimes we dream of coming to a place we have never known or experienced in this lifetime, but this is proof that in a past life we experienced this. The impression is kept within the mind and sometimes becomes manifest either in dream or in thought. The conclusion is that the mind is the storehouse of various thoughts and experiences undergone during our past lives. Thus there is a chain of continuation from one life to another, from previous lives to this life, and from this life to future lives. This is also sometimes proved by saying that a man is a born poet, a born scientist or a born devotee. If, like Mahārāja Ambarīṣa, we think of Kṛṣṇa constantly in this life (sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayoḥ), we will certainly be transferred to the kingdom of God at the time of death. Even if our attempt to be Kṛṣṇa conscious is not complete, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness will continue in the next life. This is confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā (6.41):
prāpya puṇya-kṛtāṁ lokān
uṣitvā śāśvatīḥ samāḥ
śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe
yoga-bhraṣṭo ’bhijāyate
“The unsuccessful yogī, after many, many years of enjoyment on the planets of the pious living entities, is born into a family of righteous people, or into a family of rich aristocracy.”
If we rigidly follow the principles of meditation on Kṛṣṇa, there is no doubt that in our next life we will be transferred to Kṛṣṇaloka, Goloka Vṛndāvana.
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/sb/4/29/64

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Real intelligent person is he who is satisfied what Kṛṣṇa has given him: “If Kṛṣṇa wants, He will give me more. Let me become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Let me study about Kṛṣṇa. Let me chant about Kṛṣṇa. Let me hear about Kṛṣṇa. Let me see with my eyes Kṛṣṇa, the Deity Kṛṣṇa. Let me engage my hands in worshiping Kṛṣṇa, in cleansing the temple, my hands. Let my legs be engaged in going to the temple.” In this way all our senses should be engaged in the service of Kṛṣṇa. That is our real business. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ [SB 1.5.18]. Tasyaiva hetoḥ: “For that purpose only.” Which purpose? Which we could not achieve after wandering the whole universe, up and down. The living entity is wandering by transmigration from one body to another up and down. Sometimes he is becoming Brahmā even. Brahmā, Indra, Candra. He can become. One can become. By pious activities, you can be raised to the position of Brahmā, Indra, Candra, demigods, big, big demigods. And by impious activities, you can go down to become the worm of a stool. This is going on. This is called bhramatām upary adhaḥ. Upari adhaḥ. Adhaḥ means down, and upari means up. So ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ [Bg. 14.18]. Who are going to upper planetary system? Sattva-sthāḥ, those who are qualified brāhmaṇas, strictly following the principles.
śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ
kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca
jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ
brahma-karma svabhāva-jam
[Bg. 18.42]

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Paramahaṁsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam or the Kṛṣṇa Book, you state that even clouds have souls. But then again they dissipate, in the rain they dissolve. Does that mean they die?
Prabhupāda: No. Just like your body dissolves. Does it mean you die?
Paramahaṁsa: So that means the life span of a cloud is very minute or very short. Is that so?
Prabhupāda: Yes, there are many living entities.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, my understanding of the evolution and the transmigration is that evolution is uni-directional, only in one direction.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Whereas the transmigration can be both, in both directions. They can go up or can go down.
Prabhupāda: No. Both ways. When you say “trans,” “trans” does not mean stereotyped. For lower animals, that is one side, and for human being, both sides. Because after all, the body is made according to your desire. The lower animals, they have got one kind of desire, but the human being, he has got thousands and millions of desires.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the platform of transmigration from the human platform, so it works, either it can go down or it can go up.
Prabhupāda: No, transmigration (is) going on. They are coming automatically, animals, to the upper level of human form. But when you come to human form, if you don’t cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you remain as cats and dog, then you become again cat and dog.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But the evolution stops when the spirit soul reaches the eternal abode in the spiritual…
Prabhupāda: Yes, when he is no more entangled by a material body. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The scientists have no information that there is evolution after human platform.
Prabhupāda: That is their rascaldom. Therefore I say they are rascals. They have no knowledge; still, they proclaim they are scientists.
Paramahaṁsa: They think that evolution is continuing. They think that the human species will…
Prabhupāda: Yes, evolution… That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: yānti deva-vratā devān pitṝn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ [Bg. 9.25]. Progress is going on. That progress, the ultimate progress is yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. That where you’re going, you do not return, that is the supreme progress. Saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ. That is the highest perfection. You read Bhagavad-gītā. Everything is there. Mām upetya kaunteya punar janma na vidyate. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam, nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ [Bg. 8.15]. They have no idea what is the highest perfection of human life.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are saying that the material body started from elements, the chemical elements.
Prabhupāda: That we admit also. That we also admit. But on what basis?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And when the spirit soul, when the living entity reaches the human platform, then again goes back to the…
Prabhupāda: Do the rascals believe in the living entity?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, they don’t say living entity. Bodies.
Prabhupāda: Then?
Paramahaṁsa: Something akin to Buddhism.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Paramahaṁsa: The Buddhists also say that the body is like a house. You put the house together, you put the body together with chemicals. And when the bodies die, just like you take the house apart, all the wood, and then there is no more house… no more soul, no more life.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is called nirvāṇa. And with the chemicals you can build another house. Buddhists they do not give any information of the soul. That is Buddhism. What…? Oh, wet? (the ground?)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, it’s dry.
Paramahaṁsa: There’s another very interesting factor that scientists, they state that matter is, or that there is, they dispute the fact that there’s one soul within the body. There’s a special kind of worm, it’s an earthworm, that if you cut it in half, both parts will live.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Paramahaṁsa: So they wonder how is it possible that if there is soul, that there could be two souls within one body?
Prabhupāda: Yes, why not. Souls takes the opportunity.
Paramahaṁsa: Oh, it takes the opportunity of the other body, the fertile…
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The spirit soul must necessarily have a body, either spiritual or material.
Prabhupāda: He has got already spiritual body. Material body is his covering. It is unnatural. Real body is spiritual. Just like your coat, this is unnatural. But your real body is natural. Otherwise how transmigration is possible? I am accepting different unnatural bodies. Unnatural means to my constitution. My real constitutional body is servant of Kṛṣṇa. So, so long I do not come to that position, I remain servant of nature and I get so many bodies. According to the nature’s direction I am getting body, I am giving it up, again I am desiring something, I am getting another body. This is going on. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ, ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā [Bg. 3.27]. He is a rascal. He is thinking, “I am this body.” Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe ‘rjuna tiṣṭhati, bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā [Bg. 18.61]. This is a yantra, machine. And we are traveling many species of life, all riding on this car, given by nature. Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. Māyā has given this vehicle, anywhere wandering, up and down, sometimes demigod, sometimes dog. This is going on. And in this wandering process, if he gets in touch with a devotee, then his real spiritual life begins. Otherwise he has to go on, rotating.
ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva
guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja
[Cc. Madhya 19.151]
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Mahāprabhu?
Prabhupāda: Yes, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. By mercy of spiritual master, the mercy of Kṛṣṇa, he gets the seed of devotional service, and if he cultivates, then his life becomes successful. Otherwise he has to rotate, sometimes up, sometimes down. Sometimes this grass, sometimes lion.
Paramahaṁsa: But ultimately if we come to Kṛṣṇa, there’s no return. But nevertheless, Jagāi, and…, the two gatekeepers, they returned?
Prabhupāda: There is return, that is voluntary. Return there is.
Paramahaṁsa: If we want.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Paramahaṁsa: So we can come to the spiritual world and return?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Paramahaṁsa: Fall down?
Prabhupāda: Yes. As soon as we try, “Oh, this material world is very nice,” “Yes,” Kṛṣṇa says, “yes, you go.” Just like nobody is interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Do you think everyone is interested? So. They want to enjoy this material world. Otherwise what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will. And Kṛṣṇa is so kind, He gives him opportunity, “All right, you enjoy like this.” Just like some of our students, Kṛṣṇa conscious, sometimes go away, again come back. It is free will, not stereotyped. Just like one goes to the prisonhouse, not that government welcomes, “Come on. We have got prisonhouse. Come here, come here.” He goes out of his free will; again comes out, again goes. Like that. Kṛṣṇa-bahirmukha hañā bhoga vāñchā kare, nikaṭa-stha māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare (Prema-vivarta). The police is there. Just like the police car was there. We have nothing to do with it. But if you do anything criminal, immediately you will be arrested, under police custody. The māyā may be there, but māyā captures him who is not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That’s all. Therefore, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te: “Anyone who surrenders unto Me, māyā does not interfere anymore.”
Paramahaṁsa: So our desire to enjoy, we achieve these bodies; and our desire to achieve Kṛṣṇa brings us to our natural position.
Prabhupāda: Yes.

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