First: A Few Thoughts on Religious Intolerance and Excommunication
By Tirthapada Das (ACBSP), New York, USA
What has happened to ISKCON since our Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja Prabhupada departed for nitya-lila in 1977? Because of disagreements over the procedures of continuing the guru-parampara, the unbroken chain of disciplic succession, so many sincere devotees have been excommunicated for not going along with the protocol of the GBC. Is this the correct and appropriate procedure to deal with dissidents? Has not this been considered in previous times in Western religions also? Should we consider ISKCON the all-in-all standard for Western preaching? These are things to think about and to be considered, if not to be adjusted. Otherwise, many will view the sectarian nature of the young Krishna conscious movement in the West.
Here are some enlightening quotes from other religious authorities who had to deal with the same problem in the past:
“When Lactantius wrote his Divinæ Institutiones in 308, he was too greatly impressed by the outrages of the pagan persecutions not to protest most strongly against the use of force in matters of conscience.”
He writes: “There is no justification for violence and injury, for religion cannot be imposed by force. It is a matter of the will, which must be influenced by words, not by blows…. Why then do they rage, and increase, instead of lessening, their folly? Torture and piety have nothing in common; there is no union possible between truth and violence, justice and cruelty.
For they (the persecutors) are aware that there is nothing among men more excellent than religion, and that it ought to be defended with all one’s might.
But as they are deceived in the matter of religion itself, so also are they in the manner of its defence. For religion is to be defended, not by putting to death, but by dying; not by cruelty but by patient endurance; not by crime but by faith….
If you wish to defend religion by bloodshed, by tortures and by crime, you no longer defend it, but pollute and profane it. For nothing is so much a matter of free will as religion.”
And this is what St. Augustine said regarding religious tolerance:
“In his dealings with the Donatists, St. Augustine was at first absolutely tolerant, as he had been with the Manicheans. He thought he could rely upon their good faith, and conquer their prejudices by an honest discussion. ‘We have no intention,’ he writes to a Donatist bishop, ‘of forcing men to enter our communion against their will. I am desirous that the State cease its bitter persecution, but you in turn ought to cease terrorizing us by your band of Circumcelliones… Let us discuss our differences from the standpoint of reason and the sacred Scriptures.”
So, we can see that there were such similar problems in the early beginnings of Christianity. Now, many devotees, initiates of Srila Prabhupada, have been excommunicated since seeking the advice of Srila Bhakti Raksaka Sridhara Maharaja and of late, Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja. The point that I would like to make is why does not ISKCON sit down at the table and discuss the questionable correctness of their policies. Is the GBC immune to the words of other devotees?
Everything should be debated and referred to on the basis of Scripture, not just Democratic Vote. Otherwise, like Srila Prabhupada once said prophetically and cynically: ‘Democracy means ‘demon-crazy.’
So, I ask in an open letter here to all GBC members, temple authorities, and temple presidents, why are we submitting ourselves to “polluting and profaning” the ISKCON movement with these acts of excommunication? I am requesting such older devotees as Radhanatha Swami, Bhakti Caru Swami, Radha-Govinda Swami and others to stand up and correct the present situation with ISKCON. If devotees want to accept siksa outside of ISKCON, then what is the harm? If devotees want to loudly proclaim that Srila Prabhupada established a Ritvik system, then what is the harm? Is it appropriate procedure to silence everyone with fear and intimidation of being thrown out?
Please give an answer, otherwise, an act of silence is no better than an act of consenting to such procedures, an act of cowardice of religious principles. At least allow devotees to discuss and debate these issues, not just GBC board members, who could very well be wrong in their actions, but all concerned devotees who wish to maintain the purity of Srila Prabhupada’s ISKCON.
Thank you,
Tirthapada Das (ACBSP – 1972, NY)
Dear Sriman Tirthapada Das, Your ‘requests’ to the GBC to resolve so many issues concerning ISKCON are, I am afraid naive in the extreme. The GBC cannot fix the problem because they ARE THE PROBLEM. They should just be exposed and ignored that’s all! as they are demons with NO realization!
Sridhar Swami and Narayana Swami defied Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Maharaja Prabhupada so what is the value of their opinions or advise?
Why are you asking permission from GBC to ‘debate these issues of devotee excommunication’ when it is GBC that has caused this problem? Do you think that they are just going to have a ;meeting’ and make some resolution to correct everything? Do you think that they are going to give back all the money they have stolen? Do you think that they are going to admit to conspiring to murder devotees? Do you think that they are going to admit to poisoning Srila Prabhupada?
The Ritvik system is Srila Prabhupada’s PROCLAMATION (it is not that we are proclaiming) we are just reminding people of this fact because he has put this in writing and also spoken on tape. Why do you patronizingly (and rather feebly) make such requests from the GBC as if they are, by some ‘magic’ or ‘miraculous change of heart’ going to voluntarily admit to being criminals, pedophiles, thieves, mayavadi’s, thugs, and goonda’s. Self Realization is not a ‘collective process’ but an individual one.
The future of Vaisnavism does not depend upon liars, thieves and demons but surrender to Uttama Adhikari, Acharya and Diksa Guru His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. In the age of Kali all religious collectives and institutions are run by demonic persons with little or no intelligence. They are of no importance. Only Maha Mantra and the instructions of Acharya!
Vaisnava Dasanudas
Sudarsana
Hare Krsna Sudarsana prabhu,
Thanks for nicely explaining the futility of such a suggestion.
You’ld have just as much chance of telling the mafia there’s crims in their organization and asking them to ‘reform’.
Apart from anything else, the GBC is just a ‘toothless tiger’ anyway and the temples don’t even follow their resolutions..
As for following the GBC’s (never enforced) resolutions, a quick view of 99% of temple website shows a complete disregard for # 304. Founder-Acarya Foremost on ISKCON Temple Websites
“Whereas numerous websites of ISKCON temples currently do not prominently feature the personality and teachings of His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada as the Founder-Acarya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness on their home page. Many do not have a picture of Srila Prabhupada at all. Few of them have links to Srila Prabhupada’s books, tapes, & videos. Srila Prabhupada’s pre-eminent position as the Founder-Acarya of ISKCON appears to have been de-emphasized on numerous ISKCON temple websites. On certain sites, “ISKCON” or “Prabhupada” only appear in the introductory pages in a very small, faint font;
Whereas currently, there is no requirement that determines how Srila Prabhupada’s photo and official title should be displayed on ISKCON center web sites:
RESOLVED:
• That ISKCON center officials shall be responsible to ensure that any and all web sites published by the center prominently feature a picture of Srila Prabhupada on the introductory page. This picture should be larger than any other individual’s photo (such as the GBC, center President, or guru). Srila Prabhupada should be addressed by his formal name and title: “His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, Founder-Acarya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness,” or “ISKCON Founder-Acarya His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada”, or an equivalent translation.
• All such web sites shall prominently display direct links that emphasize Srila Prabhupada on their home page such that the casual viewer would have access on the home page to Srila Prabhupada’s teachings and video recordings
• The picture of Srila Prabhupada on the home page, accompanied by his formal name and title, should be free from any other person’s image. In other words, Srila Prabhupada’s image should be the only personality in the photo or likeness
• The fonts presenting Srila Prabhupada’s name and title should be easily legible.
All ISKCON center web sites should adhere to this standard no later than three months (90 days) from passage of this resolution.” (This was resolved years ago)
If you didn’t scroll to the VERY BOTTOM of the Melbourne website and most others, you wouldn’t even know that His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada was the Founder and Acarya of his own Society.
They are a lost cause, ruled by PAD!
Yhs,
Balaram das.
Sridhar Svami and Narayana Maharaja? They are also part of the problem. They posed as Srila Prabhupada’s Diksa successors, when no such authorization was ever given by Srila Prabhupada.
“He said so many things, and this point he missed – the real point?”
Anyways ISKCON / GBC is beyond reform. That should be obvious by now. If we really want to help matters,we have to follow Srila Prabhupada’s orders more rigidly than ever. This means chanting 16 rounds, following the 4 regs, etc. And just explaining this to others as able. In this way our prayers for real change will be effective.
Vidura das : Anyways ISKCON / GBC is beyond reform. That should be obvious by now. If we really want to help matters,we have to follow Srila Prabhupada’s orders more rigidly than ever.
Mahesh: the way forward is THE PRABHUPADA WAY – HE WANTS THESE JACKALS EXPOSED: just keep on EXPOSING the ANTI RITVIK MONEY SCREWING SLAVERY MAKING BUNCH OF CROOKS(JACKALS):
SO WE HAVE TO EXPOSE THEM. THEY ARE NOT LEADER; THEY ARE JACKALS. SO JACKALS CANNOT ANYMORE RULE OVER. THAT SHOULD BE OUR PROPAGANDA
730503mw.la Conversations
Prabhupada: No, it is Sanskrit. And in Bengal it is called vane asiya raja.(?) “In the forest a jackal has become king.” They are like that. Nila-varna-srigalavat.(?) When… There is big story about this jackal. I will tell you some. A jackal came in the village and he fell in the tub where, what is called, the water? No, no. The water man keeps the water for dipping, making
little bluish. For coloring. That blue, blue. So the washerman kept the dye water in a big tub, and the jackal fell in it. So jackal fell in it; he became blue, all blue. So he fled away, and all the animals said, “What is this animal? What is the animal? What is that animal? Oh?” All, even lion became surprised. “We have not seen this.” “So who are you, sir?” “I AM SENT BY GOD TO RULE OVER YOU.” “OH?” SO THEY BEGAN TO WORSHIP HIM AS GOD, AS LEADER. Then one day other jackals, they were crying, “Wa, wa,” but the jackals cannot stop. If others jackals cry, the jackal cannot stop. So he also began to “Wa, wa.” Oh, then, they, oh, this rascal is a jackal. Yavat kincin na bhasate. That these rascals are jackals. Now they are talking nonsense. We can detect that “Here is a jackal.” SO WE HAVE TO EXPOSE THEM. THEY ARE NOT LEADER; THEY ARE JACKALS. SO JACKALS CANNOT ANYMORE RULE OVER. THAT SHOULD BE OUR PROPAGANDA. NOT ONLY SCIENTIFIC, ALL POLITICAL THINGS, SOCIAL THINGS, EVERYTHING. THEY SHOULD BE ALL KICKED OUT. THEY SHOULD BE REPLACED BY KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS. THEN PEOPLE WILL BE HAPPY. THIS SHOULD BE OUR PROGRAM. Our, this propaganda means to make people happy. It is not a business, to make business and take some money. And so many jackals have been arrested and resigned in your… You know that? Many jackals have been obliged to resign their post in the government.
731209SB.LA Lectures
So this Krsna consciousness movement is a challenge to all the rascals and fools, that’s all. SO THOSE WHO HAVE TAKEN THIS MOVEMENT VERY SERIOUSLY, THEY SHOULD BE VERY SOBER AND UNDERSTAND AT LEAST YOU MUST EXPOSE ALL THESE RASCALS. THAT WILL BE VERY MUCH APPRECIATED BY KRSNA.
Thank you very much. (end)