BY: MAHESH RAJA
One who is accepting discipline from Srila Prabhupada is Srila Prabhupada’s disciple.
In ISKCON we are ALL being DISCIPLINED by Srila Prabhupada (we receive instructions (DISCIPLINE) FROM Srila Prabhupada’s books. Even the most basic discipline, 16 rounds of Hare Krishna Mantra and four Regulative Principles are coming FROM Srila Prabhupada. Common sense — if you ARE being disciplined BY Srila Prabhupada then it follows you ARE Srila Prabhupada’s disciple. How can it be otherwise?
The MEANING of the word “disciple”
Srila Prabhupada’s Morning Walk, March 8, 1976 in Mayapur:
Prabhupada: “Discipline… Disciple means discipline. The word discipline comes from disciple, or disciple comes from discipline. So unless there is discipline, there is no question of disciple. This discipline must… That should be uniform. Otherwise, sisya… sisya, the word sisya, it comes from the root, verb, sas-dhatu. sas. sas means ruling. From this word, sasana. Sasana means government. sastra. sashtra means weapon, and sastra, scripture, and sisya… These things have come from the one root sas-dhatu. So sas-dhatu means ruling under discipline. There is another English word, that “Obedience is the first law of discipline,” or something. They say, “Obedience is the first law of discipline”? So I am right? “Obedience is…”? That is the…
Tamala Krsna: Yes, that’s more or less what it is.
Prabhupada: No, what is the word, exact. There is an English word. “Obedience is the first law of discipline.” So unless there is obedience, there cannot be any discipline. And unless there is discipline, there is no question of disciple. DISCIPLE MEANS ONE WHO FOLLOWS DISCIPLINE.”
Discipline comes from Srila Prabhupada. We are actually being disciplined by Srila Prabhupada. It is Srila Prabhupada who has given us the regulative principles of no meat, fish or eggs; no intoxication (including tea and coffee), no illicit sex, and no gambling. It is Srila Prabhupada who has made it a regulative principle for us to chant sixteen rounds on the beads HARE KRSNA HARE KRSNA KRSNA KRSNA HARE HARE / HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE.
Srila Prabhupada’s books contain all the instructions, the guidance required for us to get ourselves out of the clutches of the modes of material nature. In fact, Srila Prabhupada is personally present as his books.
Caitanya-caritamra, Adi 1, Text 35:
“There is NO DIFFERENCE between the spiritual masters instructions and the spiritual master himself.”
Since the instructions of the spiritual master and the spiritual master are not different, one can be the disciple of Srila Prabhupada by following his discipline and can be considered Srila Prabhupada’s disciple. Another point is he can be considered both direct disciple and not direct simultaneously, because Srila Prabhupada is still present in his instruction form (his books). The following example will illustrate the point.
Srila Krsnadasa kaviraja is the example of both direct and not direct disciple simultaneously. (THE PHILOSOPHY OF SIMULTANEOUS ONENESS AND DIFFERENCE).
Caitanya-caritamra, Adi 1:
“A direct disciple of Srila Rupa Gosvami was Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami. The author of Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami, stands as the DIRECT DISCIPLE of Srila Rupa Gosvami and Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami. The direct disciple of Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami was Srila Narottama dasa Thakura, who accepted Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti as his servitor. Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura accepted Srila Jagannatha dasa Babaji, who initiated Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, who in turn initiated Srila Gaurakishore dasa Babaji, the spiritual master of Om Visnupada Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja, the divine master of our humble self. Since we belong to this chain of disciplic succession from Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, this edition of Sri Caitanya-caritamrta will contain nothing newly manufactured by our tiny brains, but only remnants of food originally eaten by the Lord Himself.”
Caitanya-caritamra, Antya 19.102:
Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami was not actually a direct disciple of Srila Rupa Gosvami, but he FOLLOWED THE INSTRUCTIONS given by Srila Rupa Gosvami in Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu. He therefore ACTED ACCORDING TO THE DIRECTIONS of Rupa Gosvami and prayed in every chapter for his mercy.
Who is Srila Prabhupada’s Disciple?
Srila Prabhupada’s Morning Walk, June 13, 1976, Detroit:
Prabhupada: “Who is my disciple? First of all let him FOLLOW STRICTLY THE DISCIPLINED RULES.
Devotee (2): As long as one is following, then he is…
Prabhupada: Then he is all right.”
Srila Prabhupada Letter to Bhaktijana, September 21, 1972:
“You do not require to worry as I shall never leave you, you are my disciple and I am your spiritual master, so there is no question, AS LONG AS you follow my instructions, that I shall ever leave you. Just remember under all circumstances to chant sixteen rounds of japa daily, offer your prasadam to Krsna, and do all of the things which you already know, as you are senior disciple. These things will protect you under all conditions, without any doubt.”
Srila Prabhupada Letter to Madhudvisa, November 7, 1975:
“SO LONG AS one follows the principles, he continues to be my disciple.”
Srila Prabhupada Letter to Tusta Krsna, November 9, 1975:
“SO LONG AS one continues to follow the rules and regulations, he continues to be my disciple wherever he may be.”
Srila Prabhupada Letter, July 9, 1969:
“Out of the ten kinds of offenses, the number one offense is to disobey the orders of the Spiritual Master. The instructions given to the disciple by the Spiritual Master at the time of initiation should be strictly followed. That will make one advance to the spiritual path. But if one deliberately defies such instructions, then his advancement is hampered from the very beginning. THIS DEFYING MEANS TO DISCONNECT THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE SPIRITUAL MASTER. AND ANYONE WHO DEFIES AND THEREFORE DISCONNECTS THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE SPIRITUAL MASTER can hardly expect the assistance of the Spiritual Master life after life.”
Srila Prabhupada Letter to Cidananda, November 25, 1973:
“Please always try to REMEMBER ME BY MY TEACHINGS AND WE SHALL ALWAYS BE TOGETHER. Just like I have written in the first publications of Srimad-Bhagavatam, “The spiritual Master lives forever by His divine instruction and the disciple lives with him.”, because I have always served my Guru Maharaja and followed His teachings I am now even never separated from Him. Sometimes Maya may come and try to interfere but we must not falter, we must always follow the chalked out path layed down by the great acharya’s and in the end you will see.”
Who is NOT Srila Prabhupada’s disciple?
Initiation does not bear any meaning
Srila Prabhupada Letter, January 11, 1970:
“Regarding your question of an initiated person falling prey to the maya, the answer is that so long we are in this material world, there is always chance of being spoiled by Maya, so we must stick with vow to the Lotus Feet of Krishna. An initiated devotee is given the chance for becoming free from the entanglement of karma wheel. Initiated means beginning, not perfection. The Spiritual Master’s business is to guide him to the perfectional point. But if one does not strictly follow the guidance of a bonafide Spiritual Master HIS INITIATION DOES NOT BEAR ANY MEANING. The initiation performance is an agreement by the disciples to abide by the order of the Spiritual Master. Therefore, if the Spiritual Master is bonafide and the disciple is serious to abide by His order, then the success is sure.”
Otherwise they are NOT my disciples
Srila Prabhupada Letter to Raja Laksmi, February 17, 1976:
“My advise is always chant 16 rounds minimum and follow the four regulative principles. All of my disciples must agree on this point OTHERWISE THEY ARE NOT MY DISCIPLES.”
Against the principle
Srila Prabhupada Letter to Dhrstaketu, July 17, 1976:
“Unless absolutely necessary, one should keep head shaven and not allow the hair to grow long. If absolutely necessary, one can dress like an American gentleman, with short hair, but long hair is prohibited. The reason that one with long hair is not my disciple is because he is AGAINST THE PRINCIPLE. Unless absolutely necessary one should keep hair short, and if necessary one can dress like an American gentleman with short hair. It is not expected that everyone will join. For that reason we can’t compromise. The tendency is there to be hippy. When the acaryas are seen with beard, that is during Caturmasya, July-September. If observed strictly there is not simply a beard. There are so many rules and regulations. One can’t eat a variety of foods. Only kitri prepared and poured on the floor, and then licked up. There are so many other rules also. THAT IS NOT ALWAYS THAT THEY KEPT BEARD.”
There are many so-called Prabhupada disciples – but only in name. They in fact decline to follow Srila Prabhupada’s discipline hence they are Srila Prabhupada disciples in name only. They show superficial lip service to Srila Prabhupada.
Disciple in name only
Srila Prabhupada Morning Walk, New York, July 10, 1976:
Prabhupada: And the Bon Maharaja is his follower. HE’S IN NAME a disciple of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, BUT HE’S A SERVANT OF Vivekananda.
Tamala Krsna: He’s very similar to him.
Prabhupada: He’s a great appreciator of Vivekananda. He has put in his curriculum Vivekananda philosophy, Gandhi philosophy. Rascal, what philosophy they have got?
STEALING SRILA PRABHUPADA’S DISCIPLES, HIS PROPERTIES, FOR ONESELF (BECOMING SELF MADE GURU-BY BOGUS GBC APPOINTMENT OF 2/3 MAJORITY VOTES) HAS GRAVE CONSEQUENCES:
Krsna Book, Chapter 64 – The Story of King Nrga:
At this time, Lord Krsna was present among His relatives who were members of the ksatriya class. To teach them through the exemplary character of King Nrga, He said, “Even though a ksatriya king may be as powerful as fire, it is not possible for him to usurp the property of a brahmana and utilize it for his own purpose. If this is so, how can ordinary kings, who falsely think of themselves as the most powerful beings within the material world, usurp a brahmana’s property? I do not think that taking poison is as dangerous as taking a brahmana’s property. For ordinary poison there is treatment–one can be relieved from its effects; but if one drinks the poison of taking a brahmana’s property, there is no remedy for the mistake. THE PERFECT EXAMPLE IS KING NRGA. HE WAS VERY POWERFUL AND VERY PIOUS, BUT DUE TO THE SMALL MISTAKE OF UNKNOWINGLY USURPING A BRAHMANA’S COW, HE WAS CONDEMNED TO THE ABOMINABLE LIFE OF A LIZARD. Ordinary poison affects only those who drink it, and ordinary fire can be extinguished simply by pouring water on it; BUT THE ARANI FIRE IGNITED BY THE SPIRITUAL POTENCY OF A BRAHMANA CAN BURN TO ASHES THE WHOLE FAMILY OF A PERSON WHO PROVOKES SUCH A BRAHMANA.” (Formerly, the brahmanas used to ignite the fire of sacrifice not with matches or any other external fire but with their powerful mantras, called arani.) “IF SOMEONE EVEN TOUCHES A BRAHMANA’S PROPERTY, HE IS RUINED FOR THREE GENERATIONS. HOWEVER, IF A BRAHMANA’S PROPERTY IS FORCIBLY TAKEN AWAY, THE TAKER’S FAMILY FOR TEN GENERATIONS BEFORE HIM AND TEN GENERATIONS AFTER HIM WILL BECOME SUBJECT TO RUINATION. On the other hand, if someone becomes a Vaisnava, or devotee of the Lord, ten generations of his family before his birth and ten generations after will become liberated.”
Lord Krsna continued: “If some foolish king who is puffed up by his wealth, prestige and power wants to usurp a brahmana’s property, it should be understood that such a king is clearing his path to hell; he does not know how much he has to suffer for such unwise action. If someone takes away the property of a very liberal brahmana who is encumbered by a large dependent family, then such a usurper is put into the hell known as Kumbhipaka; not only is he put into this hell, but his family members also have to accept such a miserable condition of life. A PERSON WHO TAKES AWAY PROPERTY WHICH HAS EITHER BEEN AWARDED TO A BRAHMANA OR GIVEN AWAY BY HIM IS CONDEMNED TO LIVE FOR AT LEAST 60,000 YEARS AS MISERABLY AS AN INSECT IN STOOL. THEREFORE I INSTRUCT YOU, ALL MY BOYS AND RELATIVES PRESENT HERE, DO NOT, EVEN BY MISTAKE, TAKE THE POSSESSION OF A BRAHMANA AND THEREBY POLLUTE YOUR WHOLE FAMILY. IF SOMEONE EVEN WISHES TO POSSESS SUCH PROPERTY, LET ALONE ATTEMPTS TO TAKE IT AWAY BY FORCE, THE DURATION OF HIS LIFE WILL BE REDUCED. HE WILL BE DEFEATED BY HIS ENEMIES, AND AFTER BEING BEREFT OF HIS ROYAL POSITION, WHEN HE GIVES UP HIS BODY HE WILL BECOME A SERPENT. A SERPENT GIVES TROUBLE TO ALL OTHER LIVING ENTITIES. My dear boys and relatives, I therefore advise you that even if a brahmana becomes angry with you and calls you by ill names or curses you, still you should not retaliate. On the contrary, you should smile, tolerate him and offer your respects to the brahmana. You know very well that even I Myself offer My obeisances to the brahmanas with great respect three times daily. You should therefore follow My instruction and example. I shall not forgive anyone who does not follow them, and I shall punish him. You should learn from the example of King Nrga that even if someone unknowingly usurps the property of a brahmana, he is put into a miserable condition of life.”
It has been a common practice among Srila Prabhupada’s Godbrothers to steal Srila Prabhupada’s disciples by trickery. Sridhara Maharaja and Puri Maharaja are also known to have re-initiated Srila Prabhupada’s disciples. Narayana Maharaja is also a culprit in this deplorable un-Vaisnava, offensive, insulting conduct. This act proves they are conditioned souls.
From the letter below one can see that history repeats itself; because they are conditioned souls they ventured to initiate Srila Prabhupada’s disciples. Thus, they were caught out as Srila Prabhupada clearly says of the action: “SO IT IS DELIBERATE TRANSGRESSION OF VAISNAVA ETIQUETTES AND OTHERWISE A DELIBERATE INSULT TO ME. I DO NOT KNOW WHY HE HAS DONE LIKE THIS BUT NO VAISNAVA WILL APPROVE OF THIS OFFENSIVE ACTION.”
Srila Prabhupada Letter to Mukunda, March 26, 1968:
“In meantime, I have also received one letter which is very depressing from Hrsikesa. I understand that he has been induced by Bon Maharaja to be initiated by him for giving him shelter, and this foolish boy has accepted his inducement. This isn’t very happy news, and I have replied Hrsikesa’s letter in the following words, which please take note, and in the future, we shall be very cautious about them. “My Dear Hrsikesa, Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter of March 14, 1968, and I am greatly surprised. I AM GREATLY SURPRISED FOR BON MAHARAJA’S INITIATING YOU IN SPITE OF HIS KNOWING THAT YOU ARE ALREADY INITIATED BY ME. SO IT IS DELIBERATE TRANSGRESSION OF VAISNAVA ETIQUETTES AND OTHERWISE A DELIBERATE INSULT TO ME. I DO NOT KNOW WHY HE HAS DONE LIKE THIS BUT NO VAISNAVA WILL APPROVE OF THIS OFFENSIVE ACTION. I very much appreciate your acknowledgement of my service unto you and you will always have my blessings, BUT YOU MUST KNOW THAT YOU HAVE COMMITTEE. A GREAT BLUNDER. I do not wish to discuss on this point more elaborately now, but if you are desirous to know further about it, I shall be glad to give you more enlightenment. Mukunda is not here. He has gone to L.A. Hope you are well.” If Hrsikesa writes you letter I think you may avoid reply. I DO NOT APPROVE BOTH HRSIKESA’S AND BON MAHARAJA’S THIS OFFENSIVE ACTION. Hoping you are both well.”
In venturing to initiate Srila Prabhupada’s disciples —they could not even have understood the philosophy properly. As It is clearly stated: A DEVOTEE MUST HAVE ONLY ONE INITIATING SPIRITUAL MASTER BECAUSE IN THE SCRIPTURES ACCEPTANCE OF MORE THAN ONE IS ALWAYS FORBIDDEN. For them to Initiate Srila Prabhupada’s disciples they would be falling into a trap of REJECTING Srila Prabhupada as the Initiating Guru—DIRECT INSULT-committed BOTH by the so-called disciple of Srila Prabhupada and their conditioned soul “gurus”.
Caitanya-caritamra, Adi 1.35:
The Spiritual Masters
“The expert spiritual master knows well how to engage his disciple’s energy in the transcendental loving service of the Lord, and thus he engages a devotee in a specific devotional service according to his special tendency. A DEVOTEE MUST HAVE ONLY ONE INITIATING SPIRITUAL MASTER BECAUSE IN THE SCRIPTURES ACCEPTANCE OF MORE THAN ONE IS ALWAYS FORBIDDEN.”
ALL GLORIES TO OUR BONAFIDE JAGAT DIKSA AND SIKSA GURU SRILA PRABHUPADA!
HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE
“In ISKCON we are ALL being DISCIPLINED by Srila Prabhupada…-…then it follows you ARE Srila Prabhupada’s disciple. How can it be otherwise? ”
Yes, we are disciplined by Srila Prabhupada? No doubt about it…!
But most scriptures are originally written by Srila Vyasadeva.
So, originally we are Srila Vyasadeva’s disciples.
Vijay Rana: Yes, we are disciplined by Srila Prabhupada? No doubt about it…!
But most scriptures are originally written by Srila Vyasadeva.
So, originally we are Srila Vyasadeva’s disciples.
Mahesh: that’s just your MOST feeble excuse to over-ride Srila Prabhupada who is THE Diksa giving CURRENT Acarya IN THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION OF ACARYAS.
Srila Vyasadeva did NOT give the 4 regulative Principles and 16 rounds of HARE KRSNA HARE KRSNA KRSNA KRSNA HARE HARE / HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE to us Srila Prabhupada did.
To repeat the points:
Our DISCIPLINE comes from Srila Prabhupada. We are actually being disciplined by Srila Prabhupada. It is Srila Prabhupada who has given us the regulative principles of no meat, fish or eggs; no intoxication (including tea and coffee), no illicit sex, and no gambling. It is Srila Prabhupada who has made it a regulative principle for us to chant sixteen rounds on the beads HARE KRSNA HARE KRSNA KRSNA KRSNA HARE HARE / HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE.
Srila Prabhupada’s books contain all the instructions, the guidance required for us to get ourselves out of the clutches of the modes of material nature. In fact, Srila Prabhupada is personally present as his books.
Another point – to your suggestion your being Vyasadeva’s disciple you CAN NOT JUMP OVER the Disciplic succession of ACARYAS. Srila Prabhupada states you can NOT even JUMP OVER even Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura:
Jumping over either way:
WHY should they JUMP OVER the PROMINENT ACARYA Srila Prabhupada bearing in mind GAPS in the Disciplic succession of ACARYAS are acceptable? THAT GAP can be THOUSANDS OF YEARS!!!
Nobody can Jump over PROMINENT ACARYA Srila Prabhupada to get diksa from Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura.
Srila Prabhupada’s Lecture on Srimad-Bhagavatam, December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:
“You cannot imagine what my spiritual master said. Or even if you read some books, you cannot understand UNLESS YOU UNDERSTAND IT FROM ME. This is called parampara system. YOU CANNOT JUMP OVER TO THE SUPERIOR GURU, NEGLECTING THE NEXT ACARYA, IMMEDIATE NEXT ACARYA.”
Srila Prabhupada Letter to Dayananda, April 12, 1968:
“Regarding parampara system: there is nothing to wonder for big gaps. Just like we belong to the Brahma Sampradaya, so we accept it from Krishna to Brahma, Brahma to Narada, Narada to Vyasadeva, Vyasadeva to Madhva, and between Vyasadeva and Madhva there is a big gap. But it is sometimes said that Vyasadeva is still living, and Madhva was fortunate enough to meet him directly. In a similar way, we find in the Bhagavad-gita that the Gita was taught to the sungod, some millions of years ago, but Krishna has mentioned only three names in this parampara system–namely, Vivasvan, Manu, and Iksvaku; and so these gaps do not hamper from understanding the parampara system. We have to pick up the PROMINENT acaryas, and FOLLOW FROM HIM. There are many branches also from the parampara system, and it is not possible to record all the branches and sub-branches in the disciplic succession. We have to pick up from the authority of the acharya in whatever sampradaya we belong to.”
Since NO ORDER from Srila Prabhupada was EVER given that they ARE Acarya (Uttama Adhikari) HOW can they give DIKSA? I am NOT talking of FORMALITY of initiation.
Disciplic SUCCESSION of ACARYAS. Succession means TO SUCCEED that’s dictionary meaning. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saravati Thakura has been SUCCEEDED BY His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada who IS Founder AND ACARYA of ISKCON. HOW are they ACARYA? HOW have they SUCCEEDED Srila Prabhupada? Please see below.
Srila Prabhupada IS the FOUNDER AND ACARYA note the HYPEN in his books. ISKCON Founder-Acarya His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. If it had been only ISKCON founder only there would not be hypen in between. This means Srila Prabhupada IS the CURRENT ACARYA. THIS IS THE CURRENT LINK. NO EXCUSES HERE whatsoever. The meaning is COMPLETELY CLEAR.
In the DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION OF ACARYAS the LAST name is: 30. Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta. And He is PROMINENT so we ACCEPT HIM.
Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.29.17:
“In Bhagavad-gita, Thirteenth Chapter, it is clearly stated that one should execute devotional service and advance on the path of spiritual knowledge by accepting the acarya. ACARYOPASANAM: ONE SHOULD WORSHIP AN ACARYA, a spiritual master who knows things as they are. The spiritual master must be in the disciplic succession from Krsna. THE PREDECESSORS OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER ARE HIS SPIRITUAL MASTER, HIS GRAND SPIRITUAL MASTER, HIS GREAT-GRAND SPIRITUAL MASTER AND SO ON, WHO FORM THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION OF ACARYAS.”
Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Upendra, February 13, 1968:
“My Guru Maharaja was in the 10th generation from Lord Caitanya. We are 11th from Lord Caitanya. The disciplic sucession is as follows: 1. Sri Krishna, 2. Brahma, 3. Narada, 4. Vyasa, 5. Madhva, 6. Padmanabha, 7. Nrihari, 8. Madhava, 9. Akshobhya, 10. Jayatirtha, 11. Jnanasindhu, 12. Purusottama, 13. Vidyanidhi, 14. Rajendra, 15. Jayadharma, 16. Purusottama, 17. Vyasatirtha, 18. Laksmipati, 19. Madhavendra Puri, 20. Isvara Puri (Advaita, Nityananda) 21. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, 22. (Svarupa, Sanatana) Rupa, 23.(Jiva) Raghunath, 24. Krishna dasa, 25. Narottama, 26. Visvanatha, 27. (Baladeva.) Jagannatha, 28. (Bhaktivinode) Gaura-kisora, 29. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, Sri Barshabhanavidayitadas, 30. Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta.”
Another MANIPULATIVE excuse given TO OVER-RIDE Srila Prabhupada as Current Diksa Guru is the statement “disciple of my disciple” BUT if you STUDY that IN CONTEXT WITHIN the SAME conversation Srila Prabhupada states WHEN I ORDER (Conversation May 28, 1977, Vrindavan).
However – NO ORDER WAS EVER GIVEN basing on the FACT they were ALL conditioned souls NOT Maha-bhagavata therefore an OFFENCE against the chanting of the Holy Name. Simply put: UNLESS you accept a MAHA-BHAGAVATA AS DIKSA GURU you are SCREWED. There is NO Goloka or Vaikuntha for BOTH the cheater “guru” and his disciple:
NoD 8 Offenses to Be Avoided
The offenses against the chanting of the holy name are as follows: (3) To disobey the orders of the spiritual master.
Madhya 24.330 The Sixty-One Explanations of the Atmarama Verse
MAHA-BHAGAVATA-srestho
brahmano vai gurur nrnam
sarvesam eva lokanam
asau pujyo yatha harih
maha-kula-prasuto ‘pi
sarva-yajnesu DIKSITAH
sahasra-sakhadhyayi ca
na guruh syad avaisnavah
((The guru MUST be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service. There are three classes of devotees, and the guru MUST be accepted from the topmost class. The first-class devotee is the spiritual master for all kinds of people. ….When one has attained the topmost position of MAHA-BHAGAVATA, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshiped exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. ONLY such a person is eligible to occupy the post of a guru.))
Note The word DIKSITAH refers to Diksa and ONLY Maha Bhagavata is the one mentioned WHO give this BY DEFINITION.
From the year 1966 to 1977, Srila Prabhupada did NOT give ANY order to anyone SPECIFICALLY, “YOU become guru,” so HOW can you say that they are diksa guru?
IF Srila Prabhupada would have ordered BEFORE 1977, then there would be no point in 1977 of him stating in 1977 WHEN I order. It was SPECIFICALLY in the year 1977 that Srila Prabhupada said “WHEN I order” NOT before, so AFTER the year 1977, WHERE is the evidence of THAT order?
Prabhupada: “WHEN I order, “You become guru,” he becomes regular guru. That’s all. He becomes disciple of my disciple. That’s it.”
(Srila Prabhupada Conversation, May 28, 1977, Vrindavan)
“Self-made guru cannot be guru. HE MUST BE AUTHORIZED BY THE BONA FIDE GURU. Then he’s guru. This is the fact…Similarly, bona fide guru means he must be authorized by the superior guru.”
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture on Nectar of Devotion, October 31. 1972)
“One should take initiation from a bona fide spiritual master coming in the disciplic succession, who is AUTHORIZED BY HIS PREDECESSOR SPIRITUAL MASTER. This is called diksa-vidhana.”
(Srimad Bhagavatam 4.8.54, purport)
Prabhupada: “Try to understand. Don’t go very speedily. A GURU CAN BECOME GURU WHEN HE’S ORDERED BY HIS GURU. That’s all. Otherwise nobody can become guru.
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture on Bhagavad-gita 7.2, Nairobi, October 28, 1975)
Please provide us with tangible proof in writing from Srila Prabhupada confirming his order. Srila Prabhupada: “I shall SAY, “Now you become ACARYA. You become authorized.” WHERE IS THIS ORDER (AUTHORIZATION)? Show us in writing from Srila Prabhupada NAMING the individuals as ACARYA. Exactly WHERE does Srila Prabhupada NAME the ACARYAS in writing?
If you have a diksa guru, then how is he a guru since he has not been authorised by Srila Prabhupada? Authority by mental speculation is your authority?
Note: here Tamal Krsna is giving EVIDENCE that they are ALL conditioned souls.
Prabhupada: What is the use of producing some rascal guru?
Tamala Krsna: Well, I have studied myself and all of your disciples, and it’s clear fact that we are all conditioned souls, so we cannot be guru. Maybe one day it may be possible…
Prabhupada: Hm.
Tamala Krsna: …but not now.
Prabhupada: Yes. I shall choose some guru. I shall SAY, “Now you become ACARYA. You become authorized.” I am waiting for that. You become all acarya. I retire completely. But the training must be complete.
(Srila Prabhupada Room Conversation, Bombay, April 22, 1977)
Guru MUST be on uttama-adhikari (maha-bhagavata) stage. But aside from that, he needs an ORDER from his Guru to be ACARYA.
Madhya 24.330 — The Sixty-One Explanations of the Atmarama Verse:
“In the Padma Purana, the characteristics of the guru, the bona fide spiritual master, have been described:
MAHA -BHAGAVATA-srestho
brahmano vai gurur nrnam
sarvesam eva lokanam
asau pujyo yatha harih
maha-kula-prasuto ‘pi
sarva-yajnesu DIKSITAH
sahasra-sakhadhyayi ca
na guruh syad avaisnavah
The guru MUST be situated on the TOPMOST platform of devotional service. There are three classes of devotees, and the guru must be accepted from the TOPMOST class. The first-class devotee is the spiritual master for all kinds of people.
Prabhupada: “WHEN I order, “You become guru,” he becomes regular guru. That’s all. He becomes disciple of my disciple. That’s it.”
(Srila Prabhupada Conversation, May 28, 1977, Vrindavan)
There was NO ORDER from Srila Prabhupada NAMING ANY individual to be Diksa guru. The ONLY order was to act as Rtvik, July 9th 1977. NOTHING MORE!!!
In conclusion: Srila Prabhupada did not order, name, or authorise anyone as Acarya. FACT. But in spite of that, if one is worshipping those unauthorized conditioned souls as good as God (acarya), then it is the same as one animal worships another animal:
Life Comes From Life:
Srila Prabhupada. “Yes, that is stated in Srimad-Bhagavatam: sva-vid-varahostra-kharaih samstutah purusah pasuh.[4] This verse indicates that those who praise men who are like animals are no better than dogs, hogs, camels and asses. Sva means “dog,” vid-varaha means “stool-eating hog,” ustra means “camel,” and khara means “ass.” If the Nobel Prize is given to a scientist who is a rascal, the men on the committee who give him that prize are no better than dogs, hogs, camels and asses. We don’t accept them as human beings. One animal is praised by another animal. Where is the credit in that? If the men on the committee are no better than animals, anyone who receives the Nobel Prize in science is fool number one, because animals are praising him, not human beings.”
Vijay Rana contradicts in his very own comments when he says:
“In ISKCON we are ALL being DISCIPLINED by Srila Prabhupada…-…then it follows you ARE Srila Prabhupada’s disciple. How can it be otherwise? ”
And then he continues writing about his understanding of disciple of One Guru to an other Guru to contradict his above cited statement which reads as ;
” Yes, we are disciplined by Srila Prabhupada? No doubt about it…!
But most scriptures are originally written by Srila Vyasadeva.
So, originally we are Srila Vyasadeva’s disciples.”
As it appears that he, perhaps, follows the bogus diksha gurus Instructions of the present Iskcon. That is why he is confused and contradicts his own understanding.
Indeed he needs to read the Instructions of Srila Prabhupada and His VANI.
As a matter of fact, all of us should hear from Srila Prabhupada with rapt attention.
Hari BOL.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Dear Mahesh Raja !
Unfortunately I could not find Srila Prabhupada Letter, July 9, 1969. Who did Srila Prabhupada write this letter to ?
Thank you.
Hari bol,
marica
Hunyadi Marica says:
Unfortunately I could not find Srila Prabhupada Letter, July 9, 1969. Who did Srila Prabhupada write this letter to ?
Mahesh: the letter is addressed to Jayapataka:
Entire letter for you to read however the date should have been 11th July 1969 not 9th July. Thank-you very much for pointing out.
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Letter to: Jayapataka
—
Los Angeles
11 July, 1969
69-07-11
My Dear Jayapataka,
Please accept my blessings. I thank you very much for your letter dated July 1, 1969, and I have noted the contents carefully. I am pleased to note that you are diligently going out on Sankirtana everyday, and you are managing the temple affairs nicely. You have requested that some brahmacaris may come out to help you in Montreal, but one problem is that the American boys cannot work in Montreal. This is one hindrance. I shall consult with Tamala Krishna to see if there are any boys available from the Los Angeles temple who may go there, but I do not think that these American boys will be able to hold jobs in Montreal. I am anxious to know what is the position of the French Back To Godhead. I received issue #3 several months ago, but since then there has been no further word about this very important publication. So please inform me what is the situation regarding French BTG. In Germany they are now printing a very beautiful German edition of BTG, and this is very, very pleasing to my Guru Maharaja because He wanted that peoples of all languages may understand this philosophy of Krishna Consciousness. Regarding further tapes of Vedanta Sutra, this has been suspended for the time being, but when I begin again I shall send the tapes to you. Recently we have finished our book, Nectar of Devotion, and now the book, Krishna, is in the process of being written. So when the project of Vedanta Sutra is again taken up I shall inform you.
You have asked if it is true that the Spiritual Master remains in the material universe until all of His disciples are transferred to the Spiritual Sky. The answer is yes, this is the rule. Therefore, every student should be very much careful not to commit any offense which will be detrimental to this promotion to the Spiritual Kingdom, and thereby the Spiritual Master has to incarnate again to deliver him. This sort of mentality will be a kind of offense to the Spiritual Master. Out of the ten kinds of offenses, the number one offense is to disobey the orders of the Spiritual Master. The instructions given to the disciple by the Spiritual Master at the time of initiation should be strictly followed. That will make one advance to the spiritual path. But if one deliberately defies such instructions, then his advancement is hampered from the very beginning. This defying means to disconnect the relationship with the Spiritual Master. And anyone who defies and therefore disconnects the relationship with the Spiritual Master can hardly expect the assistance of the Spiritual Master life after life. I hope this will clear up this question sufficiently for you.
Please convey my blessings to the others. I am very pleased that you are working so sincerely to maintain the Montreal temple. Hope this will meet you in good health.
Your ever well-wisher,
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami