Dear Veda Guhya Das Prabhu,
Please accept my most humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Because you asked me to write VNN about the Ritvik matter, I thought I would first pen you my thoughts on the issue along the lines of our discussion a few days ago.
The discussions that took place on 28th May 1977 between Srila Prabhupada and some GBC regarding initiations in the future were not known to me till years after his disappearance. Srila Prabhupada would say many things on many subjects, but unless a particular policy was written in letter form, or some other legal document, such discussions on different matters were not accepted as final. Prabhupada often said you can say anything, but do not put it in writing. Writing makes it legal.
A number of questions come to my mind when the controversy over the rtvik-Guru issue comes up.
1) The system of rtvik initiations was an ongoing practice for years before Srila Prabhupada named eleven “Ritvik representatives of the Acarya” in his letter of July 9, 1977. Why would Srila Prabhupada make a special effort to write a letter appointing eleven of his senior disciples as “Ritvik representatives of the Acarya” when such rtvik initiations were already being performed on his behalf—not only by the persons named in his July 9th Letter but by sannyasis, GBCs, Temple Presidents, and others who happened to be at hand on the occasion of such initiation ceremonies?
2) Why did Srila Prabhupada decline the suggestion Of Tamala Krsna Gosvami to include Brahmananda Svami on the rtvik list? He was a leading devotee and sannyasi.
3) Why did Srila Prabhupada not simply say “All sannyasis, GBCs, and Temple Presidents of ISKCON in good standing everywhere” could act as “Ritvik representatives of the Acarya” and initiate new disciples on his behalf whenever the need presented itself ?
4) How would creating “Ritvik representatives of the Acarya” relieve Srila Prabhupada from the burden of taking on the Karma of newly initiated disciples if the disciples thus initiated would still be Srila Prabhupada’s disciples?
5) Why did Srila Prabhupada reiterate the July 9th Letter appointing “Ritvik representative of the Acarya” in three separate letters (two to myself, and one to Kirtanananda Svami) and in several conversations, but never once mention anything about appointing Gurus or about rtviks becoming Gurus upon his anticipated disappearance from the world?
I distinctly remember when I received the July 9, 1977, letter in Sri Lanka that it was clear to me that this letter was Srila Prabhupada’s arrangement for initiations for the future. I also remember feeling some disappointment with the obvious conditional authority that the “Ritvik representative of the Acarya” designation implied, because I actually had a great desire to be a Guru like Srila Prabhupada, and I think many of the leaders did have similar desires. Still, I understood it was a very responsible and authoritative appointment. On July 10th I received another letter from Srila Prabhupada written in response to a letter I had sent him describing the preaching activities in Sri Lanka at that time. In this letter he wrote as follows:
“You are a suitable person and you can give initiation to those that are ready for it. I have selected you among eleven men as “Ritvik” representative of the Acarya, to give initiations, both first and second initiation, on my behalf.” A newsletter is being sent to all temple presidents and GBC in this regard, listing the eleven representatives selected by His Divine Grace. Those who are initiated are the disciples of Srila Prabhupada, and anyone who you deem fit and initiate in this way, you should send their names to be included in Srila Prabhupada’s “Initiated disciples” book.
I immediately wrote a letter to Srila Prabhupada asking him why he had been so merciful towards me by appointing me as his “Ritvik representative of the Acarya” which I understood to be a very confidential and responsible position. In other words, it was clear to me that this letter appointing “Ritvik Representatives” to initiate new disciples on Srila Prabhupada’s behalf was Srila Prabhupada’s final instructions in anticipation of his disappearance from the world.
Srila Prabhupada replied my letter by paraphrasing my question and answering in a letter dated July 31st 1977 as follows:
“You have written to Srila Prabhupada saying you do not know why he has chosen you to be a recipient of his Mercy. His Divine Grace immediately replied, “It is because you are my sincere servant. You have given up attachment to a beautiful and qualified wife and that is a great benediction. You are a real preacher. Therefore I like you. (Then Laughing). Sometimes you become obstinate, but that is true of any intelligent man. Now you have got a very good field. Now organize it and it will be a great credit. No one will disturb you there. MAKE YOUR OWN FIELD AND CONTINUE TO BE RITTVIK AND ACT ON MY BEHALF.”
It was clear that Srila Prabhupada had officially introduced the concept of “Ritvik representative of the Acarya” as the arrangement for initiations by his disciples for the future of ISKCON. Had there been anything more to clarify certainly Srila Prabhupada would have written another letter to amend what was already so clear. But he never did, other than reinforce what he had already written: “Continue to act as rtvik representative of the Acarya.”
These eleven men and many others had been initiating devotees on Srila Prabhupada’s behalf for years, so there was no need to make a formal declaration and name disciples who could initiate on Srila Prabhupada’s behalf simply to relieve Srila Prabhupada from the burden of initiating due to his illness as it was already going on all over the world for years.
However, the July 9th letter gave authority and responsibility that was not allowed previously. The eleven men selected as “Ritvik Representatives of the Acarya” were given the freedom to initiate (first and second) and give the spiritual name without first having to consult Srila Prabhupada by letter and have an appropriate name sent by Srila Prabhupada. This was new. This system, in effect, gave these eleven “Ritvik representative of the Acarya” all the responsibilities and authority of a GURU, but at the same time it was clear by their “Job Description” as “Ritvik representative of the Acarya” that their authority was CONDITIONAL—it was not a blank check
– as they were not mature full qualified Spiritual Masters. They were apprentices of the Spiritual Master—“Ritvik representatives of the Acarya”—and, the disciples they would initiate would be the disciples of their Spiritual Master, Srila Prabhupada, the Sampradaya Acarya, The founder-acarya of ISKCON.
The Emperor or King delegates power to a Viceroy who thus has all the power of a King to rule over a colony or state, yet it is understood that the Viceroy is not the King, but is ruling as the King’s representative. Such a Viceroy would not automatically become a King upon the death of the King, rather he would continue to act as the Viceroy until the next Emperor or King was installed on the throne. Similarly the “Ritvik representative” does not automatically become a Guru or Acarya (as we assumed when Srila Prabhupada disappeared), but the Ritvik continues to act as the representative of the Acarya, Srila Prabhupada.
Although Srila Prabhupada spoke of all his disciples becoming Gurus, he never once ordered any disciple “To be a Guru,” rather he gave conditional authority and responsibility to some leading disciples to “Act as Ritvik representatives of the Acarya.” Having failed to carry out this responsibility by assuming that automatically upon Srila Prabhupada’s disappearance the rtviks would become Gurus we find everything has gone off track, and the whole ISKCON movement is in shambles. Still, it is better late than never. Everything can be brought back into focus if we simply come back to the order of the Spiritual Master and act as “Ritvik representative of the Acarya.”
I don’t think that my words will make any difference—but for my own clarification and purification I have written down these thoughts. Perhaps they will be of some help to you.
I have one last concern and it is this idea I get from Krsna Kant’s paper “The Final Order” that the “Ritvik Representative” is nothing more than a priest who performs a ritual initiation, and then is no more significant in the spiritual life of a disciple than a clerk at an army recruiting station.
Yet, the fact is that Srila Prabhupada was very careful and deliberate about choosing his “Ritvik representatives” and we will notice all of them were distinguished by their enthusiasm and success in the preaching field. So if there is going to be a reform and actual adherence to the order of Srila Prabhupada to act as “Ritvik Representatives of the Acarya,” then I think that anyone who is going to be designated as such should first of all go out and show their capacity to represent Srila Prabhupada as his “Ritvik Representative” by opening some centers and recruiting 100 or 200 devotees (or families) and train them up properly to preach and worship Srila Prabhupada as his disciples. Otherwise, what is the meaning of “Ritvik representative of the Acarya?” Without this it will simply be another office job.
I hope you and Janaki are well. Thanks for your hospitality. I hope we can meet again soon.
Your humble servant,
Hansadutta das
KING OF KIRTAN
Hansadutta Prabhu Ki Jaya
You lay it out for us all to see, the very true as it should be.
Yes Hansadutta prabhu srila Prabhupada realy loved you,
his king of kirtan as he said, should lead again the fallen souls
back to srila Prabhupada the only real acarya of this age.
You have inspired us for years, so we could gave up this worldly fears,
please take up the bhaktivedanta mission again,
and be our leader in the spiritual frame.
Lets figth the iskcon gurukurus and bring back the original system.
Yes Hansadutta prabhu lead us home to the place
where srila Prabhupada is so well known.
We trust your love for srila Prabhupad.
Yes please take up your herritage and get up, stand up,
for your rights, be ready and steady again,
and we all will be your army in future kurushetra fights.
Dear Hansudutta prabhu, that’s the most honest and forthright account of the ritvik appointments I’ve ever read. It makes Srila Prabhupada’s thinking very clear. He is the acharya and new devotees continue to be his disciples, at least as things were then.
It’s surprising that he wasn’t more specific about the future status of his ritvic gurus, whether they should or could initiate on their own behalf after a certain period of time (he himself initiated three disciples shortly after taking sannyas, without seeking the approval of his sanyass guru or godbrothers).
It seems that by not specifying when it might have been suitable for the eleven to become regular gurus, or when other disciples might act in that capacity, he was leaving it very open-ended and was prepared to let things take their course. I infer from this that his top consideration, perhaps his only consideration, was that the movement should go on somehow or another, and that he wasn’t that bothered about the details.
If the apprentice gurus messed up, it would be a learning experience for all concerned. There’s no substitute for experience and often its by getting things wrong that we best understand how to get them right.
Yaduvendu
The Guru Hoaxing is not a new thing. Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur wrote about it in various articles and personally instructed our Srila Prabhupada, his foremost disciple and Acharya of ISKCON, not to associate too much with the other disciples.
Keep “a little distance” was Bhaktisiddanta’s instruction. And Srila Prabhupada told his disciples that they should also keep a distance from the Gaudiya Math. Even more than this, he instructed to “avoid my godbrothers” at all costs. So why would Srila Prabhupada need permission from his godbrothers when they were no authority?
Bhaktisiddanta Saraswati said of Srila Prabhupada’s godbrothers, that none of them “is qualified to hold the post of guru”. So why would Srila Prabhupada need to ask their permission? Srila Prabhupada took sanyas initiation from Kesava Maharaj, this does not make Kesava Maharaj an Acharya.
Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu Himself took initiation from a Mayavadhi sanyasi, does this mean that we should seek approvals from Mayavadhis now? Certainly Srila Prabhupada liked Kesava Maharaj’s classes and considered him an advanced devotee. He even celebrated his disappearance day back in the 70s.
But Kesava Maharaj was not his guru and not an Acharya. A Rtvik is a priest, nothing more or less. Anyone who is second initiated is a “Rtvik”, or a priest. They can do any ceremonies on “behalf” of their guru if they are authorized to do so or even if they are just performing an aratik.
All pujaris are “Rtiviks”. When you offer your food to Krishna, you are not offering it directly to Krishna, you offer it to your GURU FIRST and HE offers it to Krishna. You are performing the aratik on behalf of your GURU.
“Hansadutta Dasa, one of the original 11 “Appointed Gurus,” regarding the Ritvik Issue”
Thank you Prabhu It could not be any plainer All Glories Sri Guru and Sri Gauranga
All Glories to Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. Iskcon Acarya and Only Diksa Guru Ki Jai
and Thank You Bhanumatinath Poudel and Yaduvendu das and Gadadhara das Hare Krishna to All.
Srila Prabhupada was also saying that He is doing His service for His guru, certainly He was, but it does not make Him merely a ritvik! What you ritivk vadi claimers are missing is simple logic, sanity and in fact the very truth itself that we, the nitya baddha jivas in our conditioned stage are not in the position to draw indirect meanings in the subjects of spiritual dimensions or anything else of that sort. From Prabhupada books all answers to the guru issue are clearly and directly answered, though we may not be able to understand them as they are at first, but after all do we understand perhaps the size of Maha Vishnu, or the pastimes of Lord Damodar?
bhakta jarek says: Srila Prabhupada was also saying that He is doing His service for His guru, certainly He was, but it does not make Him merely a ritvik!
The fact that you capitalize pronouns referring to Srila Prabhupada is further evidence that Puranjana Prabhu is right about you, Bhakta Jerek Prabhu: You are a Mayavadi!
Srila Prabhupada is not God. At New Vrindaban in 1970, when the 4 wayward sannyasis made such a claim, Prabhupada kicked them out of ISKCON, saying that this was Mayavadi nonsense!
This is explained in more detail in the following comment by Bhakta Hugh Prabhu:
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=33002#comment-14555
I’m sorry, Pratyatosha Prabhu, but you’re mistaken here. I’ve seen a number of letters where Srila Prabhupada writes “He” and “Him” when referring to his spiritual master, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur. I’m sorry that I don’t have references on hand, but I’ve previously shown these to another devotee who made the same argument and he was corrected.
LW says: I’m sorry, Pratyatosha Prabhu, but you’re mistaken here. I’ve seen a number of letters where Srila Prabhupada writes “He” and “Him” when referring to his spiritual master, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur. I’m sorry that I don’t have references on hand, but I’ve previously shown these to another devotee who made the same argument and he was corrected.
Even if such a letter does actually exist, please keep in mind that Srila Prabhupada didn’t type his own letters. They were typed by his secretary. For example, even though Srila Prabhupada’s letters are signed by him, some of them contain bad grammar and/or spelling mistakes.
Please note the following conversation as further evidence to support my case. Here, Srila Prabhupada explains official ISKCON editorial policy to the editors of Back to Godhead magazine in Boston on December 24, 1969, 2 days before I met Prabhupada face-to-face for the first time:
Thank you, Prabhu. I accept what you say about the letters, but what about this quote from “Message of His Divine Grace” from Srila Prabhupada’s BTG, Vol. 1, 1944:
“His Divine Grace Sree Sreemad Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Goswami Maharaj the celebrated Acharya (Spiritual Head) of the Gaudiya Vaisnavas spoke the following few lines as His Message just a few days (23rd December, 1936) before His passing away from this mortal world.”
I’ve seen other references as well, but have to find them again. I became interested in this subject a while back when reading through Prabhupada’s letters and early writings, having noticed the capitalization of “He” and “Him” on at least a few occasions. (Srila Prabhupada also capitalized the words “Spiritual Master” at times.) I’m not trying to be argumentative, but am just trying to clarify the matter. Thanks and Hari bol.
LW says: …what about this quote from “Message of His Divine Grace” from Srila Prabhupada’s BTG, Vol. 1, 1944: “His Divine Grace Sree Sreemad Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Goswami Maharaj the celebrated Acharya (Spiritual Head) of the Gaudiya Vaisnavas spoke the following few lines as His Message just a few days (23rd December, 1936) before His passing away from this mortal world.”
“His Divine Grace” is correct because formal titles are always capitalized. The last two occurrences of “His,” if you are quoting the printed copy correctly, are simply typos, which were made by the person setting the type, which was not Srila Prabhupada.
If you had bothered to read http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=33002#comment-14555, then you would have seen that Srila Prabhupada himself said:
…thus correcting a reference to a pure devotee on a poster that one of his disciples created.
At the very least, referring to a pure devotee as “He” instead of “he” means that the writer is puffed-up by thinking, “I am superior to my godbrothers because I, unlike them, are actually giving the pure devotee proper respect.
But even worse is that it might be a Mayavadi contamination similar to saying that the pure devotee is God, in which case the writer is thinking, “If I can convince others that pure devotees should be referred to with capitalized pronouns, the same as God, then when they finally realize that I am a pure devotee, then they will refer to me in this way also!”
We must always be on our guard against maya (illusion) creeping into our consciousness.
Thank you once again. The paragraph cited was from a photocopy of Srila Prabhupada’s first BTG in 1944. Wasn’t Prabhupada himself checking for typos back then before printing?
Yes, I did read the info you cited, but am still wondering about the above and other examples like it in Prabhupada’s early writings.
Hare Krishna.
Further to my previous comment, here are two more examples from Srila Prabhupada’s early letters:
“My humble self had the privilege of taking this training under the lotus feet of my Spiritual Master and I am confident to organise this work in a scientific way if I am helped by the State.”
Srila Prabhupada letter, 28th February, 1949
“As such my Spiritual Master Shri Bhakti Siddhant Goswami Maharaj made a great effort to execute the order of Lord Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and we were fortunate enough to meet Him for service.”
Srila Prabhupada letter, 24th July, 1958
Isn’t is possible that Srila Prabhupada had a different standard prior to his establishing ISKCON?
P.S. Prabhupada himself must have typed his letters during the 40’s and 50’s.
LW says: Isn’t is possible that Srila Prabhupada had a different standard prior to his establishing ISKCON?
Yes. Srila Prabhupada, after he came to America, wanted his writings to conform to the standards of American style English. Therefore, he may have changed his standards upon hearing the advice of his editors such as Hayagriva and Satsvarupa. I’m sure that if he used excessive capitalization while he was still in India it was because of a desire to conform to the Indian way of doing things, which can be a little strange at times.
After reading some more early letters from Srila Prabhupada, I’ve noticed that he capitalizes pronouns when referring to Krishna, Srila Vyasadeva, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta and “Spiritual Master.” It’s hard to imagine that these were coincidental typos or that he was following an Indian standard because how would Indians know to selectively choose the abovementioned personalities and not others, since there are references to so many persons in Prabhupada’s letters (including big people like Mahatma Gandhi, Nehru, etc., and who were referred to without capitalization)? Of course, no one really knows the mind of a pure devotee, but I would humbly submit it appears that Srila Prabhupada was intentionally honoring his guru maharaj — a “ray of Vishnu” — by such capitalization. Srila Prabhupada was educated at Scottish Churches College. In addition, he was very wise and scholarly by nature. Surely he knew what he was doing back then, as always. Granted, he later standardized his writings for the books, but I think that what he had done previously was also perfect and consciously executed with the specific intention of glorifying Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. (Saksad dharitvena samasta sastrair.) Srila Prabhupada also installed murtis of both himself and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta on the altar in Vrindavana — something which cannot be imitated and which was unprecedented. Prabhupada wrote that we should study the philosophy from different lights of direction, so this is just another way of looking at it.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Dear devotees LW and Pratyatosa Dasa, all respect and thanks to you both for your very illuminating exchange. This reminds me of how Srila Prabhupada remarked that when devotees debate it is not arguing, rather a transcendental competition! Your insightful exchange exemplifies this.
Among Srila Prabhupada’s wonderous qualities and talents is his beautiful simplicity in giving the spiritual essence of the most profound matters so easily and sweetly as to be understood by a fool, a muddha like myself. He is forever and always a reminder of how a true Goswami lives and breathes.
Lord Nityananda Prabhu ki jai!
Homer
Whether one follows Srila Prabhupada (or concocts, and doesn’t follow!) this is the real point. The Mad Bandit (Bangalore) is conducting “Ritvik” initiation but DOES NOT FOLLOW SRILA PRABHUPADAS INSTRUCTIONS BUT INSTEAD ENTERS INTO AGREEMENTS WITH LOW CLASS HOMOSEXUAL, MODI GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS. MODI IS RSS FASCIST TRAITOR AND PUPPET OF ROTHSCHILD’S MOSSAD TERRORISTS. SRI LANKA TERRORIST ATTACK LINKED TO RSS AND MOSSAD, THIS IS WHY MODI GOVERNMENT BACK IN POWER. SAME SITUATION IN USA WITH FASCIST PEDOPHILE RAPIST TRUMP AND HIS CHABBAD ZIONIST CRIMINAL PALS. SAME PATTERN IN AUSTRALIA WITH EVANGELIST (JEWISH ZIONIST CONTROLLED) PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN ZIONIST, TRAITOR SCOTT MORRISON! ……ELECTION RIGGING AT IT’S WORST.
POLITICIANS ARE ALL VASSALS OF JEW CABBALIST TERRORISTS! THIS IS HAPPENING WORLDWIDE. ISKCON MEDIA GLORIFYING (EX AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER), BOB HAWKE CIA PLANT (NOT AUSTRALIAN LEADER), EVEN EX CIA ADMIT THIS! SO WHY ARE ISKCON MEDIA GLORIFYING THIS DIRTY SCUMBAG WHO COVERED UP THE MASS MURDER OF HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF TIMORESE FREEDOM FIGHTERS AND WHO HAS BEEN OUTED AS A DIRTY, FILTHY PEDOPHILE AND CHILD ABUSER! SPENDING HIS TIME IN SOUTH EAST ASIAN BOY BROTHELS!
ISKCON ALSO GLORIFYING (PIECE OF SHIT!) ZIONIST TRAITOR JOHN MCCAIN WHO HELPED TO CREATE AND FINANCE ISIS BY MEETING WITH LEADER (CRYPTO-JEW “MUSLIM” PRETENDER) ABHU BAKHR AL BHAGDADI (TRAINED BY THE CIA). ISKCON IS RUN BY ZIONIST SCUM, THE LOWEST FILTH ON THE FACE OF THIS EARTH. ALL OF THESE ZIONIST FILTH ARE SHOWING THEIR TRUE COLORS AND ALL WILL BE DESTROYED! LIARS, TRAITORS AND COLLABORATORS, POISONING SRILA PRABHUPADA, DESTROYING SRILA PRABHUPADA’S BOOKS AND STEALING SRILA PRABHUPADA’S PROPERTY………..ALIGNING THEMSELVES WITH MASS MURDERERS LIKE RSS, HOMOSEX TRAITOR, TERRORIST MODI, UN (NEW WORLD ORDER) SATANIST SCUM ILLUMINATI CLINTON, BILL GATES, THE FORD FOUNDATION AND OTHER DEVOTEES OF AGENDA 21, GMO POISON, VACCINATION GENOCIDE, AND EUGENICS (STERILIZATION AND POPULATION GENOCIDE!).
ALL THESE NEGATIVE ELEMENTS ARE NOW ACCELERATING OUT OF CONTROL AND THIS IS BECAUSE ISKCON TRATORS HAVE JUMPED INTO BED WITH ZIONIST FREEMASON, SATANIST WORLD VIEW. AGENDA 21 WILL PUT AN END TO ANY IDEA OF VARNASHRAM DHARMA! THE DEMONS ARE STRONGER THAN EVER IN A WORLD THAT IS OBLIVIOUS TO WHAT IS HAPPENING!
THIS IS A WAR OF LIES, MISINFORMATION, DECEPTION AND CORRUPTION ON A SCALE NEVER SEEN BEFORE AND IS GOING TO END VERY BADLY! RITVIK IS MEANINGLESS IF THE “INITIATED” DOES NOT FOLLOW SRILA PRABHUPADA, BUT JUMPS INTO BED WITH ILLUMINATI SCUM, AND MULTINATIONAL CORPORATIONS LIKE MONSANTO (BAYER) TO SERVE GMO BHOGA TO “ALREADY CHEATED, DUMB IGNORANT MASS OF FOOLS!” THIS IS HELPING DEMONS TO SEND THEM TO HELL, AT AN EVEN FASTER RATE! AND THEMSELVES ALSO!
Sudarsana Das Vanacari:…..” DOES NOT FOLLOW SRILA PRABHUPADAS INSTRUCTIONS BUT INSTEAD ENTERS INTO AGREEMENTS WITH LOW CLASS HOMOSEXUAL, MODI GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS. MODI IS RSS FASCIST TRAITOR AND PUPPET OF ROTHSCHILD’S MOSSAD TERRORISTS”.
Mahesh: EXTREMELY doubtful Modi is homosexual. Lets look at the perspective from a BALANCED viewpoint: On the contrary, Modi is known to be VERY good at sadhana practice: gets up VERY early in the morning, does yoga, worships Lord Siva and demigods worship etc BUT he is NOT following Srila Prabhupada – THAT is the REAL issue. Rather, he instead, appreciates Ramakrishna, Vivekananda, “Mahatma” Gandhi types. Which is a shame:
Demigod Worship
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=47494#more-47494
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
VIVEKANANDA WAS ALSO NOT EVEN INTELLIGENT MAN BECAUSE HE ACCEPTED RAMAKRSNA AS INCARNATION OF GOD
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=47526#more-47526
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Gandhi
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=49600
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
On the political front, the politics of India is such that leader of opposition Rahul Gandhi was coming from BIG corruption/scandals of his father Rajiv Gandhi/ grandfather Nehru family. And—- the people of India could just NOT trust him and the Congress Party to run the Country. This is WHY Rahul Gandhi lost. The Congress Party could NOT defend the the Country from the attacks of Islamic terrorism eg when the Mumbai terror attack took place Congress led Government did NOTHING to retaliate. And these Islamic terror was repeatedly happening many times ESPECIALLY in Kashmir. These Islamic terror attacks coming from Pakistan were stated to be STATE SPONSORED because they want to grab Kashmir from India. Modi and the BJP Government HOWEVER turned the tables around SWIFTLY by SURGICAL STRIKES attacking the Islamic terrorist bases WITHIN Pakistan DESTROYING the Islamic terror camps there – ALTHOUGH it is Nuclear state. THIS was the ACTUAL turning point. The PREVIOUS weak Congress Party led Government NEVER led surgical strike attacks against the Islamic terrorists BECAUSE they feared Nuclear attack from Pakistan in return. The Congress led Government policy motto is “No first use of Nuclear weapons”. This means that the Islamic terrorists would attack in Kashmir AT WILL and KNEW that they could GET AWAY because Congress led Government always did NOTHING to retaliate. So – the Islamic terror attacks in India INCREASED. Modi led BJP Government has shown COURAGE that they will NOT tolerate Islamic terror attacks in India coming from Pakistan ALTHOUGH it is Nuclear armed. This is the MAIN difference between Modi led BJP party and the CORRUPTION/SCANDALS of WEAK Congress Party led by Gandhi FAMILY.
Sudarsana Das Vanacari: MODI IS RSS FASCIST TRAITOR AND PUPPET OF ROTHSCHILD’S MOSSAD TERRORISTS”.
Mahesh: The ACTUAL fact is: Israel HELPED India against Islamic terrorism by supplying arms, technology.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India%E2%80%93Israel_relations
However, I do not agree with the Bayers/Monsanto GM crops which the farmers in India and elsewhere are made use of:
Reasons. Various reasons have been offered to explain why farmers commit suicide in India, including: floods, drought, debt, use of genetically modified seed, public health, use of lower quantity pesticides due to less investments producing a decreased yield.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=farmers+sucide+India+seeds+GM
“Sale to Bayer. In September 2016, Monsanto agreed to be acquired by Bayer for US$66 billion. In an effort to receive regulatory clearance for the deal, Bayer announced the sale of significant portions of its current agriculture businesses, including its seed and herbicide businesses, to BASF. ”
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=bayers+monsanto
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2205509/Cancer-row-GM-foods-French-study-claims-did-THIS-rats–cause-organ-damage-early-death-humans.html
This concludes the BALANCED viewpoint.
Hare Krishna!
Dear Mahesh Raja Prabhu. Getting your misinformation from WIKIPEDIA is not BALANCED viewpoint..
“Islamic” terrorism is funded and controlled by the Zionist Jews. The power behind many US Presidents (particularly Obama) Zbigniew Brezinski (Committee of 300) has admitted this.
Vivekananda was a Jew Rothschild puppet and Rothschild promoted his bogus book Raja Yoga.
Homosexual Gandhi was an instrument of “divide and rule” the oldest political trick in the book. He was a traitor to the people of India, a country split in two by Jew Rothschild.
Israel trained Sri Lankan Army but also trained and funded the Tamil Tiger rebels. That is how the game works when Satanist Jews are in control like Rothschilds and Mossad.
I’m sorry Mahesh Prabhu but your MISINFORMATION gathered from WIKIPEDIA is complete BULLSHIT!
WIKIPEDIA IS CONTROLLED BY ZIONIST JEWS!
Muslim Terrorist Apparatus was Created by US
[Search domain benwilliamslibrary.com/blog/?p=2716] https://benwilliamslibrary.com/blog/?p=2716
Sudarsana Das Vanacari Prabhu: Muslim Terrorist Apparatus was Created by US
Mahesh: here is Srila Prabhupada’s account:
Prabhupāda: …situation. The… Why America is after this Pakistan? This requires little intelligence. The America has no interest either in Pakistan or India, but both of them, being on the border of Russia, it will be convenient for them to fight with the Russians from these places.
Devotee (1): Through Pakistan.
Prabhupāda: Do you follow? You have seen Indian map, eh, Asian map? Have you got any?
Devotee (1): Yes, India and Pakistan are right at the bottom of Russia.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They want this place.
Devotee (1): The Russians.
Prabhupāda: Russ… No. Americans.
Devotee (1): Americans.
Prabhupāda: Americans want this place to fight with the Russians. So if American comes directly in India, that “We want to fight,” then India would not agree. Therefore they’re keeping with these foolish rascals, Pakistan. And they’re insulting. They’re… Not insulting. They’re naturally enemy of… not to let them… The Vietnam and everything, Korea, all these things. Not to allow the communists to become very powerful. That is American political policy is going on. And the presidents may change, but the national policy cannot be changed. Therefore they want fighting between Pakistan and India. So Russia… Actually that happened. Russia will come to the help of India. That arrangement is already there with Indira Gandhi. Naturally they’ll come to help Pakistan. And then between the big two.
Devotee (1): That’s why you said this morning that India will suffer more than any other country.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhagavān: The last time there was a war between Pakistan and India the American government put their whole fleet and aimed their guns at India.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They wanted to help Pakistan. But when the Russian came, they took time. Otherwise, fighting would have begun at that time.
Devotee (1): So it almost happened one time before.
Prabhupāda: Maybe that Nixon thought: “If some settlement can be done, without fighting…” Therefore he went to Russia.
Devotee (1): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Later on. He went to China also.
Bhagavān: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But they are uncompromising. The communists, they, they are staunch enemy of the capitalist. Their whole philosophy is against God and against capitalism. So if America becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious and fights, they have got strength plus God’s blessing. They’ll come out victorious. Fight is going on. We cannot stop. But if the American people take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and fight with the communist, they’ll come out victorious. Then the menace of communistic movement will stop. And we want that. We want that these demonic communists should be finished. The Russians, as people, they are not communists. They are not communists. A certain class. Just like in India, a certain class is communist. The mass of people is not communist. They cannot become communist. It is not possible.
Devotee (1): It is not natural for the living being to be communist.
Bhagavān: Atheistic communist.
Prabhupāda: Atheistic communist.
Devotee (1): It’s not natural.
Prabhupāda: They, they’re not real communists. Real communist we are. Actually see. All people from all parts of the world, professing different religions, different path of life. Still they are joined. This is natural. Kṛṣṇa community.
Devotee (1): So this war… You mentioned a couple of minutes ago that this war almost broke out once before when America aimed all of its weapons at India. So it could happen at any time. It could happen very shortly then.
Prabhupāda: That war was also Russian instigated. This war, last war between Pakistan and India, was practically between India and Pakistan, uh, yes…
Devotee (1): Russia.
Prabhupāda: No. The Bangladesh, they were Bengalis. Although the whole Pakistan, including Bangladesh and the other part, West Pakistan, East Pakistan, Bangladesh… So actually, Bangladesh is bigger than West Pakistan. They should have taken the government, majority. But the West Pakistan, by force they were ruling. They are not majority. So after all, they are Bengalis, maybe Muslim. They’re intelligent than these Punjabis. Punjabis, they have got bodily strength, not brain. So these Bengalis, in Mujjhamat Raman, that was his demands, that: “We are majority. Why they should govern us? We should govern over them.” This is the movement. So, but they’re already in power. So how to throw them out of power? So he negotiated in India, that: “You help us to separate from…” And India’s interest is that Pakistan becomes weak by separation, that is India’s interest. So India agreed to help them. How to help? They organized a false, er, soldiers. You know? What is called? Bahini. Mean a freedom soldier. They organized freedom soldier. And India consulted Russia. Russia was friendly, that: “We want to help Bangladesh.” So they said: “Yes, you help. If there is fight, then we shall help you.” This was the… So these bahini, sanan bahini, sandana bahini, or something like that, they organized, “freedom soldiers.” The freedom soldier means Indian soldiers. They entered Bangladesh because East Bengal, West Bengal. And they started this freedom soldier. But this is Indian soldier. Pakistan could understand that, that where this Bangladesh will get so nice soldiers? It is Indian soldiers. So when the movement was increasing, then Pakistan was in a very precarious condition. So they wanted American help. The Americans also said: “Yes.” So they got American planes, American… to crush down this Bangladesh. And the Bangladesh means Indian soldiers. So later on it was discovered. So Pakistan attacked directly India. That was to go on, increase. But when the Americans were helping, these Pakistani, the Russians also came. So it was going to be a, the same, Third World War, immediately. So Americans considered something, that: “Let us take some time.” Therefore the war was stopped. Otherwise it was already started. That policy is going on.
Devotee (1): There’s been no change. Just…
Prabhupāda: Therefore Indian government does not like you Americans.
Devotee (1): Indian government. Yes.
Prabhupāda: And they’re making propaganda. They’re thinking that the Americans, under the dress of religious people, the C.I.A., they have come to disrupt. And this is the position.
Devotee (1): So everything is the same as it was then. It’s just the war, the actual fighting has been postponed for some time.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the…
Bhagavān: Do we have any danger that…? I mean we are building such important establishments in India. Do we have any danger…?
Prabhupāda: There is no danger internationally. Suppose… Just like the Buddhists. They have got their all pilgrimages in India. Because Lord Buddha is Indian. He spread Buddhism all over the world. So all the Buddhist relics and pilgrimages are in India. Gaya Pradesh and other, Benares… So India government allow them free, freedom to come here as pilgrimage. So you are now Vaiṣṇava. Why they should not allow you to come to your pilgrimage in India, Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s birthplace? You have adopted Lord Caitanya, Lord Kṛṣṇa’s birthplace. Legally, they cannot. They should, rather, make arrangement. But, from political point of view, they’re thinking that “These Americans have taken to this religious garb. Actually they are intending something political.” That is the general impression. C.I.A. What can be done? Therefore I was stressing this point that you Americans, if you make your country strong, Kṛṣṇa conscious, that will be good for the whole world. Actually you are doing that, but they are misunderstanding, in a different way. They cannot believe that an Indian guru can control so many American young boys on religious prin… Because nobody could do that. Just like all other, Mahesha Yogi and… He, they might have some American followers, but they are not coming here, taking so active part.
Devotee (1): Most of them, if they come here…
Prabhupāda: But they haven’t got any philosophy… Eh?
Devotee (1): Most of the followers of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi or these other gurus, if they come to India, it’s just to go into the Himalayas and smoke some ganja…
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhagavān: They are not dramatic like our movement. Our movement is very dramatic and obvious.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhagavān: And we’re an obvious cultural movement, whereas they are a hobby.
Prabhupāda: Hobby. That they can understand. So on account of this political situation, the government is not very favorable to our movement. But we have to counteract it by our behavior, by our propaganda. It is not difficult if you do it very nicely. We opened this college program, that foreigners should come here, then it will be solved. If it is recognized by the university and you come, you people come as students, then the whole situation will be solved.
Devotee (1): Here in Māyāpur.
Prabhupāda: Hm. (end)
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/conversations/1975/apr/mayapur/april/04/1975
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Prabhupāda: …call it Jooeypur.(?) Joo-ee(?) Joo-ee.(?) [break] …America can drop the first bomb in Moscow, then they will come out triumphant. And the Communists will be finished. [break] …friendship with Pakistan only for this reason. It is just on the border of Russia. If from Pakistan they can drop the first bomb in Moscow. [break]
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/conversations/1975/jun/morning_walk/honolulu/june/16/1975
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So, the whole thing has topsy-turvied. Why? Because there is no good king. This is the cause. So the whole Battlefield of Kurukṣetra was arranged by Kṛṣṇa so that these irresponsible rogues, dressed as kings, should be all killed. That was the plan of Kṛṣṇa. Just like Duryodhana. Duryodhana, in the dress of a king, he was a rogue. He cheated the Pāṇḍavas by gambling. “You bet your wife, you bet your kingdom.” In this way, they were devotees, simple, cheated them. So Kṛṣṇa wanted to see that these cheaters and rogues must be killed. That was His plan. Therefore He said, yadṛcchayā copapannaṁ svarga-dvāram apāvṛtam: “Arjuna, you are hesitating to fight, but it is a great opportunity for you. Because as a kṣatriya, if you kill these cheaters and rogues, that will be a great achievement for you. And even though you cannot kill them, if you die yourself, then the heavenly door is open for you.” Because a kṣatriya who dies in the battlefield for the right cause, he goes to the heaven. If he conquers over the enemy, he enjoys the kingdom. And if he dies… But the cause must be right. Svarga-dvāram.
yadṛcchayā copapannaṁ
svarga-dvāram apāvṛtam
sukhinaḥ kṣatriyāḥ pārtha
labhante yuddham īdṛśam
Yuddham means a political fight. Nowadays. Just like in our India, Pakistan and Hindustan, they are always planning fighting. That is political. That is political. When the Pakistan’s government cannot manage, nobody is managing nicely, neither Pakistan or Hindustan, but they divert their attention the religious slogan—”Hindus are our enemies.” Or “the Pakistan is our enemies.” The so-called national slogan. Here also, everywhere. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13].
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/classes/bg/2/32/london/september/02/1973
Brezinski is a member of The Committee of 300. They control US intelligence (CIA) and also MI6/ MI5 and Mossad. Brezinski is a Communist Zionist Jew and drew the Russians into a war with Afghanistan (to weaken them). Srila Prabhupada is talking about the political dynamic of almost half a century ago. Russia is NO LONGER COMMUNIST. INDIA IS MORE ALIGNED WITH AMERICA as Pakistan harbors many Afghan Muslim fighters (such as The Taliban, who were originally funded and trained by the CIA). American “Christianity” has been hijacked by “Evangelists” who are ALL PRO-ZIONIST JEWS. Sound familiar?
RUSSIA IS NOW MORE CHRISTIAN THAN AMERICA! SO THE DYNAMIC HAS CHANGED!
America is now pushing for Homosex to destroying the family system, promoting lesbians, gays, trannies, legalize marijuana, sexualization of children, and promoting Satanism through Jewish Zionist controlled music, film and ”entertainment industry saturating the Jewish Kabbalist controlled media with ‘tattoo culture’, fags, whores and the demi monde!
Srila Prabhupada talks about The Communists but these were the creation of Jew Rothschild. Karl Marx, Frederick Engels, Leon Trotsky…..all Jews. Also in Vietnam the Communists were bankrolled by Jew Rothschilds and armed by the CIA. Ho Chi Minh was a CIA agent. The CIA even flew in a medical team to assist him when he was sick. The Chinese Communists were also bankrolled by Jew Rothschilds (and 10 million was provided by Loeb Jewish Bank).
It wasn’t the Communists, the Pakistanis, the Vietnamese, or the Russians that poisoned Srila Prabhupada…………….. IT WAS AMERICAN ASHKENAZI JEWS!
It wasn’t the Communists, Pakistanis, Vietnamese or the Russians that murdered Sulochana Prabhu………………………IT WAS AN AMERICAN ASHKENAZI ZIONIST JEW!
It wasn’t the Communists, the Pakistanis, the Vietnamese or the Russians that changed and bastardized Srila Prabhupada’s books…………IT WAS AN AMERICAN JEW!
My dear Mahesh Raja Prabhu, you are having “nightmares” about Muslims and Communists and UNDER YOUR BED BUT IT IS THE JEWS THAT YOU SHOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT! AND MODI (AS IS PAKISTAN’S IMRAN KHAN) IS A ZIONIST PUPPET OF THE JEWS, AND ALSO A TRAITOR JUST LIKE GANDHI!
Sudarsana Das Vanacari: My dear Mahesh Raja Prabhu, you are having “nightmares” about Muslims and Communists and UNDER YOUR BED BUT IT IS THE JEWS THAT YOU SHOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT!
Mahesh: Again, My dear Sudarsana Prabhu, you are drawing an impression of ALL Jews on the same level – yet you did point out : a VERY SPECIFIC kind of Jews :ASHKENAZI JEWS:
It wasn’t the Communists, the Pakistanis, the Vietnamese, or the Russians that poisoned Srila Prabhupada…………….. IT WAS AMERICAN ASHKENAZI JEWS!
It wasn’t the Communists, Pakistanis, Vietnamese or the Russians that murdered Sulochana Prabhu………………………IT WAS AN AMERICAN ASHKENAZI ZIONIST JEW!
It wasn’t the Communists, the Pakistanis, the Vietnamese or the Russians that changed and bastardized Srila Prabhupada’s books…………IT WAS AN AMERICAN JEW!
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The SAME goes for A PARTICULAR section of muslims (not all muslims are terrorists).
Islamic terrorists are BECAUSE they DRAW their inspiration from PARTICULAR sections of Koran:
Violence
Does the Quran really contain over a hundred verses that sanction violence?
The Quran contains at least 109 verses that speak of war with nonbelievers, usually on the basis of their status as non-Muslims. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called ‘hypocrites’ and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.
Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, most verses of violence in the Quran are open-ended, meaning that they are not necessarily restrained by historical context contained in the surrounding text (although many Muslims choose to think of them that way). They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subject to interpretation as anything else in the Quran.
The context of violent passages is more ambiguous than might be expected of a perfect book from a loving God. Most contemporary Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book’s call to arms according to their own moral preconceptions about justifiable violence. Islam’s apologists cater to these preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally don’t stand up to scrutiny. Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.
Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to balance out those calling for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. Muhammad’s own martial legacy, along with the remarkable emphasis on violence found in the Quran, have produced a trail of blood and tears across world history.
Quran
Quran (2:244) – “Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things.” (See also: Response to Apologists)
Quran (2:216) – “Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.” Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot. (See also: Response to Apologists)
Quran (3:56) – “As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help.” (See also: Response to Apologists)
Quran (3:151) – “Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority”. This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be ‘joining companions to Allah’). (See also: Response to Apologists)
Quran (4:74) – “Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.” The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today’s suicide bombers. (See also: Response to Apologists)
Quran (4:76) – “Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who disbelieve, fight in the cause of Taghut (Satan, etc.). So fight you against the friends of Shaitan (Satan)” The Arabic for the word “fight” is from qital, meaning physical combat.
Quran (4:89) – “They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks.” (See also: Response to Apologists)
Quran (4:95) – “Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home).Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward ” This passage criticizes “peaceful” Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah’s eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that “Jihad” doesn’t mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is this Arabic word (mujahiduna) used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man’s protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad, which would not make sense if it meant an internal struggle). (See also: Response to Apologists)
Quran (4:101) – “And when you (Muslims) travel in the land, there is no sin on you if you shorten your Salat (prayer) if you fear that the disbelievers may attack you, verily, the disbelievers are ever unto you open enemies.” Mere disbelief makes one an “open” enemy of Muslims.
Quran (4:104) – “And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain…” Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense? (See also: Response to Apologists)
Quran (5:33) – “The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement” (See also: Response to Apologists)
Quran (8:12) – “(Remember) when your Lord inspired the angels… “I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them” No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle, given that it both followed and preceded confrontations in which non-Muslims were killed by Muslims. The targets of violence are “those who disbelieve” – further defined in the next verse (13) as those who “defy and disobey Allah.” Nothing is said about self-defense. In fact, the verses in sura 8 were narrated shortly after a battle provoked by Muhammad, who had been trying to attack a lightly-armed caravan to steal goods belonging to other people. (See also: Response to Apologists)
Quran (8:15) – “O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey’s end.”
Quran (8:39) – “And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion is all for Allah” Some translations interpret “fitna” as “persecution”, but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context (See notes for 2:193). The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during the pilgrimage. Other Muslims were allowed to travel there – but not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, as it was Muhammad’s intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until “religion is only for Allah”, meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition. According to the Sira (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 324) Muhammad further explains that “Allah must have no rivals.” (See also: Response to Apologists)
Quran (8:57) – “If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember.”
Quran (8:67) – “It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land…”
Quran (8:59-60) – “And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah’s Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy.” As Ibn Kathir puts it in his tafsir on this passage, “Allah commands Muslims to prepare for war against disbelievers, as much as possible, according to affordability and availability.” (See also: Response to Apologists)
Quran (8:65) – “O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight…”
Quran (9:5) – “So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them.” According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence at the time of Muhammad was to convert to Islam: prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religion’s Five Pillars. The popular claim that the Quran only inspires violence within the context of self-defense is seriously challenged by this passage as well, since the Muslims to whom it was written were obviously not under attack. Had they been, then there would have been no waiting period (earlier verses make it a duty for Muslims to fight in self-defense, even during the sacred months). The historical context is Mecca after the idolaters were subjugated by Muhammad and posed no threat. Once the Muslims had power, they violently evicted those unbelievers who would not convert. (See also: Response to Apologists)
[Note: The verse says to fight unbelievers “wherever you find them”. Even if the context is a time of battle (which it was not) the reading appears to sanction attacks against those “unbelievers” who are not on the battlefield. In 2016, the Islamic State referred to this verse in urging the faithful to commit terror attacks: Allah did not only command the ‘fighting’ of disbelievers, as if to say He only wants us to conduct frontline operations against them. Rather, He has also ordered that they be slain wherever they may be – on or off the battlefield. (source)]
Quran (9:14) – “Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of a believing people.” Humiliating and hurting non-believers not only has the blessing of Allah, but it is ordered as a means of carrying out his punishment and even “heals” the hearts of Muslims.
Quran (9:20) – “Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah’s way are of much greater worth in Allah’s sight. These are they who are triumphant.” The Arabic word interpreted as “striving” in this verse is the same root as “Jihad”. The context is obviously holy war.
Quran (9:29) – “Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” “People of the Book” refers to Christians and Jews. According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status. Verse 9:33 tells Muslims that Allah has instructed them to make Islam “superior over all religions.” This chapter was one of the final “revelations” from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad’s companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths. (See also: Response to Apologists)
Quran (9:30) – “And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!” (See also: Response to Apologists)
Quran (9:38-39) – “O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place.” This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell. The verse also links physical fighting to the “cause of Allah” (or “way of Allah”). (See also: Response to Apologists)
Quran (9:41) – “Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew.” See also the verse that follows (9:42) – “If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them” This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and – in this case – on Christian soil, according to the historians). (See also: Response to Apologists)
Quran (9:73) – “O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination.” Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims that unbelievers are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter. It explains why today’s devout Muslims generally have little regard for those outside the faith. The inclusion of “hypocrites” (non-practicing) within the verse also contradicts the apologist’s defense that the targets of hate and hostility are wartime foes, since there was never an opposing army made up of non-religious Muslims in Muhammad’s time. (See also Games Muslims Play: Terrorists Can’t Be Muslim Because They Kill Muslims for the role this verse plays in Islam’s perpetual internal conflicts). (See also: Response to Apologists)
Quran (9:88) – “But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper.” (See also: Response to Apologists)
Quran (9:111) – “Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.” How does the Quran define a true believer? (See also: Response to Apologists)
Quran (9:123) – “O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness.” (See also: Response to Apologists)
Quran (17:16) – “And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction.” Note that the crime is moral transgression, and the punishment is “utter destruction.” (Before ordering the 9/11 attacks, Osama bin Laden first issued Americans an invitation to Islam).
Quran (18:65-81) – This parable lays the theological groundwork for honor killings, in which a family member is murdered because they brought shame to the family, either through apostasy or perceived moral indiscretion. The story (which is not found in any Jewish or Christian source) tells of Moses encountering a man with “special knowledge” who does things which don’t seem to make sense on the surface, but are then justified according to later explanation. One such action is to murder a youth for no apparent reason (v.74). However, the wise man later explains that it was feared that the boy would “grieve” his parents by “disobedience and ingratitude.” He was killed so that Allah could provide them a ‘better’ son. [Note: This parable along with verse 58:22 is a major reason that honor killing is sanctioned by Sharia. Reliance of the Traveler (Umdat al-Saliq) says that punishment for murder is not applicable when a parent or grandparent kills their offspring (o.1.12).] (See also: Response to Apologists)
Quran (21:44) – “…See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?”
Quran (25:52) – “Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness with it.” – The root for Jihad is used twice in this verse – although it may not have been referring to Holy War when narrated, since it was prior to the hijra at Mecca. The “it” at the end is thought to mean the Quran. Thus the verse may have originally meant a non-violent resistance to the ‘unbelievers.’ Obviously, this changed with the hijra. ‘Jihad’ after this is almost exclusively within a violent context. The enemy is always defined as people, rather than ideas.
Quran (33:60-62) – “If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease (evil desire for adultery, etc.), and those who spread false news among the people in Al-Madinah, cease not, We shall certainly let you overpower them, then they will not be able to stay in it as your neighbors but a little while Accursed, wherever found, they shall be seized and killed with a (terrible) slaughter.” This passage sanctions slaughter (rendered as “merciless” and “horrible murder” in other translations) against three groups: hypocrites (Muslims who refuse to “fight in the way of Allah” (3:167) and hence don’t act as Muslims should), those with “diseased hearts” (which include Jews and Christians 5:51-52), and “alarmists” or “agitators – those who speak out against Islam. It is worth noting that the victims are to be sought out, which is what today’s terrorists do.
Quran (47:3-4) – “Those who disbelieve follow falsehood, while those who believe follow the truth from their Lord… So, when you meet (fighting Jihad in Allah’s Cause), those who disbelieve smite at their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them as captives)… If it had been Allah’s Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (He lets you fight), in order to test you, some with others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost.” Holy war is to be pursued against those who reject Allah. The unbelievers are to be killed and wounded. Survivors are to be held captive for ransom. The only reason Allah doesn’t do the dirty work himself is to to test the faithfulness of Muslims. Those who kill pass the test. (See also: 47:4 for more context) (See also: Response to Apologists)
Quran (47:35) – “Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: “have the upper hand”) for Allah is with you,” (See also: Response to Apologists)
Quran (48:17) – “There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom.” Contemporary apologists sometimes claim that Jihad means ‘spiritual struggle.’ If so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted? This verse also says that those who do not fight will suffer torment in hell.
Quran (48:29) – “Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves” Islam is not about treating everyone equally. This verse tells Muslims that two very distinct standards are applied based on religious status. Also the word used for ‘hard’ or ‘ruthless’ in this verse shares the same root as the word translated as ‘painful’ or severe’ to describe Hell in over 25 other verses including 65:10, 40:46 and 50:26..
Quran (61:4) – “Surely Allah loves those who fight in His cause” Religion of Peace, indeed! The verse explicitly refers to “rows” or “battle array,” meaning that it is speaking of physical conflict. This is followed by (61:9), which defines the “cause”: “He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist.” (See next verse, below). Infidels who resist Islamic rule are to be fought. (See also: Response to Apologists)
Quran (61:10-12) – “O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a commerce that will save you from a painful torment. That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad), and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwelling in Gardens of’Adn- Eternity [‘Adn(Edn) Paradise], that is indeed the great success.” This verse refers to physical battle waged to make Islam victorious over other religions (see verse 9). It uses the Arabic root for the word Jihad.
Quran (66:9) – “O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey’s end.” The root word of “Jihad” is used again here. The context is clearly holy war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include “hypocrites” – those who call themselves Muslims but do not act as such. (See also: Response to Apologists)
Quran (2:191-193) – “And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing… but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)” (Translation is from the Noble Quran) The verse prior to this (190) refers to “fighting for the cause of Allah those who fight you” leading some to claim that the entire passage refers to a defensive war in which Muslims are defending their homes and families. The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, however, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). Verse 190 thus means to fight those who offer resistance to Allah’s rule (ie. Muslim conquest). The use of the word “persecution” by some Muslim translators is disingenuous – the actual Arabic words for persecution (idtihad) – and oppression are not used instead of fitna. Fitna can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. A strict translation is ‘sedition,’ meaning rebellion against authority (the authority being Allah). This is certainly what is meant in this context since the violence is explicitly commissioned “until religion is for Allah” – ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief. [Editor’s note: these notes have been modified slightly after a critic misinterpreted our language. Verse 193 plainly says that ‘fighting’ is sanctioned even if the fitna ‘ceases’. This is about religious order, not real persecution.] (See also: Response to Apologists)
Other verses calling Muslims to Jihad can be found here at AnsweringIslam.org
https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx
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Note: If you look at the world today the Islamic terrorist massacres carried out in Mumbai, Paris, Sri Lanka etc are actually BECAUSE of the above selected verses.
Now, this is NOT something new. History repeats itself:
There was also a celebrated disciple of Rāmānujācārya’s known as Kūreśa. Śrī Rāmapillā was the son of Kūreśa, and his son was Vāgvijaya Bhaṭṭa, whose son was Vedavyāsa Bhaṭṭa, or Śrī Sudarśanācārya. When Sudarśanācārya was an old man, the Mohammedans attacked the temple of Raṅganātha and killed about twelve hundred Śrī Vaiṣṇavas. At that time the Deity of Raṅganātha was transferred to the temple of Tirupati in the kingdom of Vijaya-nagara. The governor of Gingeeṅ, Goppaṇārya, brought Śrī Raṅganātha from the temple of Tirupati to a place known as Siṁha-brahma, where the Lord was situated for three years. In the year 1293 Śaka (A.D. 1372) the Deity was reinstalled in the Raṅganātha temple. On the eastern wall of the Raṅganātha temple is an inscription written by Vedānta-deśika relating how Raṅganātha was returned to the temple.
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/cc/madhya/9/79
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TEXT 86
prabhu lañā gelā viśveśvara-daraśane
tabe āsi’ dekhe bindu-mādhava-caraṇe
SYNONYMS
prabhu lañā—taking the Lord; gelā—he went; viśveśvara-daraśane—to visit the temple of Viśveśvara; tabe—thereafter; āsi’-coming; dekhe—see; bindu-mādhava-caraṇe—the lotus feet of Bindu Mādhava.
TRANSLATION
Tapana Miśra then took Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu to visit the temple of Viśveśvara. Coming from there, they saw the lotus feet of Lord Bindu Mādhava.
PURPORT
This Bindu Mādhava is the oldest Viṣṇu temple in Vārāṇasī. Presently this temple is known as Veṇī Mādhava, and it is situated on the banks of the Ganges. Formerly five rivers converged there, and they were named Dhūtapāpā, Kiraṇā, Sarasvatī, Gaṅgā and Yamunā. Now only the River Ganges is visible. The old temple of Bindu Mādhava, which was visited by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, was later dismantled by Aurangzeb, the great Hindu-hating emperor of the Mogul dynasty. In the place of this temple, he constructed a big majīda, or mosque. Later, another temple was constructed by the side of the mosque, and this temple is still existing. In the temple of Bindu Mādhava there are Deities of four-handed Nārāyaṇa and the goddess Lakṣmī. In front of these Deities is a column of Śrī Garuḍa, and along the side are deities of Lord Rāma, Sītā, Lakṣmaṇa and Śrī Hanumānjī.
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TEXT 128
āra yadi kīrtana karite lāga pāimu
sarvasva daṇḍiyā tāra jāti ye la-imu
SYNONYMS
āra—again; yadi—if; kīrtana—chanting of the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra; karite—to do; lāga—contact; pāimu—I shall take; sarva-sva—all possessions; daṇḍiyā—chastising; tāra—his; jāti—caste; ye—that; la-imu—I shall take.
TRANSLATION
“The next time I see someone performing such saṅkīrtana, I shall certainly chastise him by not only confiscating all his property but also converting him into a Muslim.”
PURPORT
To convert a Hindu into a Muslim was an easy affair in those days. If a Muslim simply sprinkled water on the body of a Hindu, it was supposed that the Hindu had already become a Muslim. During the transition of the British in Bangladesh during the last Hindu-Muslim riots, many Hindus were converted into Muslims by having cows’ flesh forcibly pushed into their mouths. Hindu society was so rigid at the time of Lord Caitanya that if a Hindu were converted into a Muslim, there was no chance of his being reformed. In this way the Muslim population in India increased. None of the Muslims came from outside; social customs somehow or other forced Hindus to become Muslims, with no chance of returning to Hindu society. Emperor Aurangzeb also inaugurated a tax that Hindus had to pay because of their being Hindus. Thus all the poor Hindus of the lower class voluntarily became Muslims to avoid the tax. In this way the Muslim population in India increased. Chand Kazi threatened to convert the people into Muslims by the simple process of sprinkling water on their bodies.
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/cc/adi/17/128
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TEXT 156
mathurā āsiyā kailā ‘viśrānti-tīrthe’ snāna
‘janma-sthāne’ ‘keśava’ dekhi’ karilā praṇāma
SYNONYMS
mathurā āsiyā—coming in to Mathurā; kailā—performed; viśrānti-tīrthe—at the bathing place known as Viśrāma-ghāṭa; snāna—bathing; janma-sthāne—at the place of Lord Kṛṣṇa’s birth; keśava—the Deity named Keśava; dekhi’-seeing; karilā praṇāma—offered His respectful obeisances.
TRANSLATION
When Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu entered the city of Mathurā, He took His bath at Viśrāma-ghāṭa. He then visited the birthplace of Kṛṣṇa and saw the Deity named Keśavajī. He offered His respectful obeisances to this Deity.
PURPORT
At the present moment, the temple of Keśavajī is very much improved. At one time, Keśavajī-mandira was attacked by the emperor Aurangzeb, who constructed such a big mosque there that the temple of Keśavajī was insignificant in comparison. However, with the help of many rich Maḍwaris, the temple has improved, and a very large temple is now being constructed so that the mosque is now appearing diminished in comparison. Many archeological discoveries have been made there, and many people from foreign countries are beginning to appreciate Kṛṣṇa’s birthplace. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is attracting many foreigners to the Keśavajī temple, and now they will also be attracted by the Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma temple in Vṛndāvana.
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/cc/madhya/17/156
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Anyway, there is a picture of Vṛndāvana. That picture, there is a temple. This temple was first constructed by Sanātana Gosvāmī. That is the oldest temple in Vṛndāvana, not less than five hundred years old. And it was desecrated by the Aurangzeb, Emperor Aurangzeb.
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This was the system of Indian life. Hindus, Mohammedans, they used to live very peacefully. It is not a fact that Mohammedans were always aggressive. Otherwise, how they could rule over India for eight hundred years? The Britishers could not rule even two hundred years. But they ruled over India eight hundred years. Only due to Aurangzeb’s policy, the Mogul empire dismantled.
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History has been repeated so many times and many many leaders of materialism like Napoleon, Hitler and others now remain in name only without any sign of the material progress planned by them. De-Stalinisation has already begun in Russia. Nobody is enjoying the result of civilization created by atheists like Ravana, Kansa, Aurangzeb, Napoleon or Hitler. Everything is in oblivion and this teaches us the lesson that the materialistic plans of the present age will also meet with the same fate after a lapse of 50 years. Therefore blind materialism does not bring in any permanent relief in the world.
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/btg/8/8b
Prabhupada is saying that “Mohamedans and Hindus used to live peacefully” so this is also true in the middle eastern countries before the advent of Zionism which has accelerated hostility between everyone. This is why we have to follow Srila Prabhupada’s Ritvik instruction as Krishna consciousness is transcendental to all of these other processes (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) as they all begin with the worship of Abraham.
As Mahesh Raja Prabhu has pointed out there is much warlike rallying against evil in the Koran and this has some commonality with other religions also, it is when this evil, sin (or Satanic influence) becomes BLURRED for political gain, when the problems arise. The Buddhist priests in Myanmar urging for the massacres of Islamic civilians is very shocking as many people saw Buddhists as peaceful. So this politicising of faith is going on and creating havoc everywhere as greed and the lust for power increases.
ISKCON has dangerously aligned itself with Hindu Nationalism with the BJP in power and this is not a good sign to be ‘saddling up’ with these crazy RSS fanatics like Modi, equally the demonic UN “Interfaith” concept is also highly political and includes many devious, ambitious and politically aligned personalities. This is what happens when they go against the orders of Srila Prabhupada (beginning with the denial of Srila Prabhupada’s Ritvik order). ISKCON should not undertake ‘programs’ with any government institutions (such as food, vaccination, medical, schooling, UN “committees”) this is “doing a deal with the Devil” Srila Prabhupada DID NOT WANT THIS! REMAINING INDEPENDENT IS WHAT IS REQUIRED, BEGINNING WITH SRILA PRABHUPADA’S RITVIK ORDER. THESE WORLDWIDE GOVERNMENTS ARE DEMONIC AND ONLY SEEK TO DESTROY DHARMA AND USE “RELIGION” FOR THEIR OWN POLITICAL ADVANTAGE AND GREED.
Sudarsana Das Vanacari : It wasn’t the Communists, the Pakistanis, the Vietnamese, or the Russians that poisoned Srila Prabhupada…………….. IT WAS AMERICAN ASHKENAZI JEWS!
It wasn’t the Communists, Pakistanis, Vietnamese or the Russians that murdered Sulochana Prabhu………………………IT WAS AN AMERICAN ASHKENAZI ZIONIST JEW!
It wasn’t the Communists, the Pakistanis, the Vietnamese or the Russians that changed and bastardized Srila Prabhupada’s books…………IT WAS AN AMERICAN JEW!
Mahesh: It seems they are still following the same trait of their forefathers: MONEY: for MONEY they have changed Srila Prabhupada’s books, usurped his Diksa Guru position:
770123rc.bhu
Rāmeśvara: It’s also commonly known that in the West the banks supplied money to Lenin to fight his revolution. They have no discrimination. If it seems like it is a good chance for making interest…
Prabhupāda: Therefore Hitler killed these Jews. They were financing against Germany. Otherwise he had no enmity with the Jews.
Hari-śauri: Yes. They were controlling the economy. That was his one thing.
Prabhupāda: And they were supplying. They want interest money—”Never mind against our country.” Therefore Hitler decided, “Kill all the Jews.”
Rāmeśvara: These banks in the West, they supported Lenin. They made it possible to finance his revolution.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They have got money. The Jews have got money. They want to invest and get some profit. Their only interest is how to get money, no nationalism, no religion, nothing of the sort. Therefore it is not now; long, long ago… Therefore Shakespeare wrote “Shylock, the Jew.”
Hari-śauri: Yes. “Shylock.”
Prabhupāda: “One pound of flesh.” The Jews were criticized long, long ago.
Hari-śauri: They were hated in the Middle Ages.
Rāmeśvara: America now has this policy that they will sell their guns to both sides.
Prabhupāda: That is all right, because they are doing business. So I am shopkeeper. Anyone pays, I shall… That is good.
Rāmeśvara: But no discrimination.
Prabhupāda: Why discrimination? I am selling. You come. Pay me. I shall give you.
Rāmeśvara: It’s dangerous. They are promoting violence.
Prabhupāda: That dangerous in every item. This Gandhi was also dangerous, although superficially nonviolent. Everyone is dangerous. Until one is devotee, he’s dangerous in any position. He’s dangerous. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. It is mental concoction that “This is good; this is bad.” Everything is bad.
Hari-śauri: Part of their policy for that, though, was because they supported the Israelis, and then the Arabs started to squeeze them on the oil, so they had to get friendly with the Arabs again. So they started to supply them arms.
Prabhupāda: They’ll have to change because it is mano-dharma, mental concoction.
Rāmeśvara: Mano-dharma.
Prabhupāda: Mano-dharma means once you accept, “Good,” and next moment you reject it, “Bad.” This is mano-dharma. So that is going on. And therefore we have taken this vow that “Whatever Kṛṣṇa said, that is good, and everything bad. Bas.” Our confusion is finished.
Sudarsana Das Vanacari: Srila Prabhupada is talking about the political dynamic of almost half a century ago. Russia is NO LONGER COMMUNIST. INDIA IS MORE ALIGNED WITH AMERICA as Pakistan harbors many Afghan Muslim fighters (such as The Taliban, who were originally funded and trained by the CIA). American “Christianity” has been hijacked by “Evangelists” who are ALL PRO-ZIONIST JEWS. Sound familiar?
Mahesh: “Srila Prabhupada is talking about the political dynamic of almost half a century ago” does NOT change the situation. The war Srila Prabhupada PREDICTED between India and Pakistan WILL happen – it is only a question of time. TAKE SRILA PRABHUPADA’S WORDS WITH INTELLIGENCE – DO NOT DISCARD THEM.
“INDIA IS MORE ALIGNED WITH AMERICA” – not really – this is just A POLITICAL PLAY – America does not want China to get strong and therefore NEEDS some balance in the region AGAINST China. China has been ASSERTING POWER and Military presence – and America is getting worried:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_disputes_in_the_South_China_Sea
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_People%27s_Liberation_Army_Support_Base_in_Djibouti
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/25/world/asia/china-sri-lanka-port.html
https://www.csis.org/analysis/pakistans-gwadar-port-new-naval-base-chinas-string-pearls-indo-pacific
Also, IF India is ACTUALLY ALIGNED with America THEN America would NOT have given F16s fighter Jets to Pakistan to use AGAINST India:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/us-count-of-pakistans-f-16s-fighter-jets-found-none-of-them-missing-report/articleshow/68733231.cms
For further comments, please focus on article topic:
“Hansadutta Dasa, one of the original 11 “Appointed Gurus,” regarding the Ritvik Issue”.
Srila Prabhupada on Priorities: SB 5/12.13
TRANSLATION
Who are the pure devotees mentioned here? In an assembly of pure devotees, there is no question of discussing material subjects like politics and sociology. In an assembly of pure devotees, there is discussion only of the qualities, forms and pastimes of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He is praised and worshiped with full attention. In the association of pure devotees, by constantly hearing such topics respectfully, even a person who wants to merge into the existence of the Absolute Truth abandons this idea and gradually becomes attached to the service of Vāsudeva.
PURPORT
The symptoms of pure devotees are described in this verse. The pure devotee is never interested in material topics. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu has strictly prohibited His devotees to talk about worldly matters. Grāmya-vārtā nā kahibe: one should not indulge in talking unnecessarily about news of the material world. One should not waste time in this way. This is a very important feature in the life of a devotee. A devotee has no other ambition than to serve Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement was started to engage people twenty-four hours daily in the service of the Lord and in His glorification. The students in this institution engage in the cultivation of Kṛṣṇa consciousness from five in the morning to ten at night. They actually have no opportunity to waste their time unnecessarily by discussing politics, sociology and current events. These will go their own way. A devotee is concerned only with serving Kṛṣṇa positively and seriously.
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/sb/5/12/13
This is of course very elevated platform to be in the personal association of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, pure devotees indeed! Srila Prabhupada of course had to come down from Uttama Adhikari position to preach to fools and rascals (not pure devotees) and in the course of preaching often discussed the political nature of the world. Srila Prabhupada made the point that his mission was only half completed and Varnashrama Dharma was yet to become manifest, which should be also a priority. Many devotees (particularly FISKCON leadership) have become enticed and seduced (out of material desires and ignorance) by the demonic element and its various manifested political apparatus, based on Godlessness, deceit and evil making it necessary to expose this rascaldom for the benefit of innocent devotees.
Political science is a large component of the Kshatriya element of Varnashrama Dharma culture and necessary for brahmanas to have an understanding of such topics in the endeavor of preaching to avoid being duped by cheaters and rascals.
Varnashrama Dharma is much more than some ”agricultural endeavor” as it has to encompass the 4 Ashrams and also the 4 Varnas, to be successful. It seems at the present time to be ”a long time coming” due to FISKCON’s continued inability to adhere to Srila Prabhupada’s order but such topics should not be neglected as this was Srila Prabhupada’s order the Varnashrama Dharma be implemented.
So anyway this is my understanding (as I myself am “light years away”, from pure devotee status!)
The word I used is ‘priorities’, ie the condition of being more important. Of course this does not exclude some natural discussion on worldly affairs, but as Srila Prabhupada states in his purport.. “THESE WILL GO THEIR OWN WAY”, whether we obsess over them or not, especially when it’s all past history.
Srila Prabhupada is instructing his disciples here, not Lord Caitanya’s associates, about the process for advancing towards the platform of pure devotional service… not that one has to be already on the level.
“This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement was started to engage people twenty-four hours daily in the service of the Lord and in His glorification. The students in this institution engage in the cultivation of Kṛṣṇa consciousness from five in the morning to ten at night.”
“Grāmya-vārtā nā kahibe: one should not indulge in talking unnecessarily about news of the material world. One should not waste time in this way. This is a very important feature in the life of a devotee.”
So many thanks to the Webmaster prabhu for calling the comments back to the article topic.
Yfs, Balaram das.
I appreciate your point about ‘priorities’ as the many discussions by Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and his pure devotee associates and the transcendental pastimes of Lord Krishna equally are indeed nectarian and most relishable to the ears of devotees. The term you used ‘worldly affairs’ encompasses many superfluous elements, many of which I have no interest in but I do have an interest in the dynamic in which the demonic predators of this world prey on the majority through fearmongering, lies and hypocrisy.
These events are not ‘all past history’, as events of the past have a way of repeating themselves over and over again so it becomes necessary to discuss as it is always ‘the usual suspects’. I don’t agree with your critique that this constitutes ”obsessing over them” as I am only trying to throw some light on these things as a duty to Srila Prabhupada.
With regards to the “topic” this particular article was posted almost 10 years ago and has been ”beaten to death!”. It is very difficult to get any devotees “to comment on anything” (for what reason I don’t know?) so sometimes a discussion may lead to something else….so what? Not everything can be put into a box! There are many things that people in this world are in complete ignorance of and even though I can appreciate the webmaster’s point in “keeping the comments on topic” it has already been flogged to death!
Although Srila Prabhupada spoke of all his disciples becoming Gurus, he never once ordered any disciple “To be a Guru,” rather he gave conditional authority and responsibility to some leading disciples to “Act as Ritvik representatives of the Acarya.”
This is from Hansadutta’s above letter to Veda Guhya Das
Now, compare this to below:
Note: The rittvik is also a living guru?????
“Srila Prabhupada said: I don’t say I am liberated. I am conditioned. But because I am following the instructions of Bhaktisiddhanta, I am liberated. This is the distinction between conditioned and liberated: when one is under the direction of a liberated person. So Srila Prabhupada’s direction was: “Act as representative of the Acharya, act as rittvik .” We should follow that order and be liberated and thus continue the disciplic succession. The rittvik is also a living guru .”
(Srila Prabhupada, His Movement and You, Hansadutta Das, 1994)
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Note: Comparison to Book Bhagavatam????
“Direct communication is possible with the Acharya by following the guidance of his empowered representative, the rittvik acharya (he is the link to the disciplic succession) or simply by reading Srila Prabhupada’s books. In the Bhagavatam Srila Prabhupada writes:
There are two types of Bhagavatas, namely the book Bhagavata and the devotee Bhagavata. Both the Bhagavatas are competent remedies, and both or them or either of them can be good enough to eliminate the obstacles.”
(Srila Prabhupada, His Movement and You, Hansadutta Das, 1994)
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Note: And when the Srila Prabhupada was given POISON in the SAME room he was in; WHY is it that Hamsadutta is STILL denying Srila Prabhupada was given POISON?
Although the evidence is HERE and ALL can NOW hear the whispers clearly make out ALSO whose voice those individuals are because of modern technology enhancement of sound production HOW can he DENY this:
Srila Prabhupada poisoned:
The following sites has whispers of the poison givers:
To hear the whole CD of the Nov 10 1977 Conversations from beginning to end, please click
http://www.mediafire.com/?ppvh77orok1r7vh
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Srila Prabhupada Given Poison:
http://gurupoison.tripod.com/support/whispers.htm
http://gurupoison.tripod.com/support/pada.htm
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=42549#comment-29598
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=43821
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=42564#more-42564
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=46843#more-46843
http://www.iskcon-truth.com/poison/poison-whispers.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIBqNBMbPvY&t=316s
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=47921
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=47931
How to understand the poisoning of Srila Prabhupada’s body and his disappearance?
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=47943
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Hansaduta prabhu.
Why have you not answered my e mails about Bhagavad Gita classes on your web site and the new Bhagavad Gita Study Room here at Prabhupada News?
Great history here about the past and all it’s intricacies. Fortunately I no longer have the time to study the past scandals that are ever so dry. I like better being so much more focused on the present with concerns about spreading Krsna consciousness into the future.
“Everything is there”. Srila Prabhupada
Dear prabhus.
Please accept my humble obeisances all glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Just like all living entities have their own individual eternal personal relationship with Krsna the Supreme Personality of Godhead, just like all living entities have a personal individual eternal relationship with Paramatma or Supersoul, we all have a personal individual relationship
with Srila Prabhupada through his books. He will relate to each one of us on an individual level through the heart. Anything we need to know or to experience to make our lives and the lives of everyone on Earth perfect he will reveal to us including how to deal with the BBTs illegal ongoing book changes. Srila Prabhupada was well aware of what the future held for ISKCON the BBT and the GBC regarding the Hare Krishna movement and his and Krsnas books so don’t for a moment think that the situation we all face has not been covered in his books. All the advice and strategies we need to fight the illegal book changes by the BBT are in his original pre 1978 books get to them!
Ys Hasti Gopala Dasa
For the full page of quotes that these were taken from see: http://adi-vani.org/articles.php?articleId=52
“I have given you TLC, WHAT NEED IS THERE TO READ CAITANYA CARITAMRTA TRANSLATED BY SOMEONE ELSE. You are right to stop such reading.” SPL (VI 1987) Govinda das 20/01/70”
Devotee: “Srila Prabhupada when you’re not present with us, how is it
possible to receive instructions? For example in questions that may
arise…”
Srila Prabhupada: “Well the questions are answ… answers are there in my books.” SPC (BBT 1991) Los Angeles 13/05/73
“There is nothing new to be said. Whatever I had to say, I have already said in my books. Now you must try to understand it and continue with your endeavours. Whether I am present or not does not matter.” SPC (BBT 1991) Vrndavan 17/05/77
“If I depart there is no cause for lamentation. I will always be with you through my books and orders. I will always remain with you in that way.” BTG (BBT 1977) December 1977
Srila Prabhupada: “So in my absence you read the books. What I talk, I have written in my books. That’s all.”
Indian Man (2): “Personally, we think more greater.”
Srila Prabhupada: “That’s all right. But still, you can associate with me by reading my books.”
SPC (BBT 1991) Toronto 07/08/75
5. Does the chanting of Hare Krishna depend upon initiation?
Referencing letters that Srila Prabhupada wrote to specific devotees at specific times in the past can sometimes create misleading messages for the rest of the society and those experiencing this philosophy for the first time. Please note a publicly posted copy of a letter on the Hare Krsna Society main page. Their link is posted below. A subsequent posting from us found at Prabhupada Books is below. Both Srila Prabhupada and Rupa Goswami are correct of course.
Hasti Gopala dasa
How Srila Prabhupada wanted Hari nama Sankirtan to be done.
May 30, 2019 in Articles by Damaghosa dasa
Kirtan leaders should chant in the manner of the acarya… all should be pure devotees
“Regarding Kirtana Party: My idea is that at least one dozen persons should form a Kirtana Party. Two persons play mrdangas, eight persons play karatalas, one person playing tamboura, and one person playing melodious harmonium. The person who will play on tamboura will be leader singer. You have just calculated what I want, when you suggest that the leader should sing as I do, and the others will respond. That will be very nice. But all the members of the party will be pure devotees. None of them should be outsiders. We do not want any outsiders as far as possible. Mrdanga playing as you are doing at present will make you more and more expert as you go on playing. Here also I see Gaurasundara simply by playing is improving. If all the members keep their faith in Krishna and tries to please Him, certainly everyone will be pleased by hearing our Kirtana. It is sure and certain. When such Kirtana will be demonstrated, only the harmonium player may sit, and all the others may stand up and join the Kirtana and dancing properly dressed.” (Prabhupada letter to Hansadutta, February 4, 1968)
5. Does the chanting of Hare Krishna depend upon initiation?
(98) Padyavail 29
ākṛṣṭiḥ kṛta-cetasāṁ sumanasām uccāṭanaṁ cāṁhasām
ācaṇḍālam amūka-loka-sulabho vaśyaś ca mukti-śriyaḥ
no dīkṣāṁ na ca sat-kriyāṁ na ca puraścaryāṁ manāg īkṣate
mantro ‘yaṁ rasanā-spṛg eva phalati śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmātmakaḥ
SYNONYMS
ākṛṣṭiḥ—attraction; kṛta-cetasām—of saintly persons; su-manasām—of the most liberal-minded; uccāṭanam—annihilator; ca—also; aṁhasām—of sinful reactions; ā-caṇḍālam—even to the caṇḍālas; amūka—except the dumb; loka-sulabhaḥ—very easy to achieve for all persons; vaśyaḥ—full controller; ca—and; mukti-śriyaḥ—of the opulence of liberation; no—not; dīkṣām—initiation; na—not; ca—also; sat-kriyām—pious activities; na—not; ca—also; puraścaryām—regulative principles before initiation; manāk—slightly; īkṣate—depends upon; mantraḥ—mantra; ayam—this; rasanā—tongue; spṛk—touching; eva—simply; phalati—is fruitful; śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāma-ātmakaḥ—consisting of the holy name of Lord Kṛṣṇa.
TRANSLATION
” ‘The holy name of Lord Kṛṣṇa is an attractive feature for many saintly, liberal people. It is the annihilator of all sinful reactions and is so powerful that save for the dumb who cannot chant it, it is readily available to everyone, including the lowest type of man, the caṇḍāla. The holy name of Kṛṣṇa is the controller of the opulence of liberation, and it is identical with Kṛṣṇa. Simply by touching the holy name with one’s tongue, immediate effects are produced. Chanting the holy name does not depend on initiation, pious activities or the puraścaryā regulative principles generally observed before initiation. The holy name does not wait for all these activities. It is self-sufficient.’ ”
PURPORT
This verse is found in the Padyāvalī (29) by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī. Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/cc/madhya/15/110
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This verse renders a nice summary of the transcendental qualities of the holy name:
• He is attractive even for saintly persons, because he bestows supreme spiritual bliss.
• He destroys all sinful reactions.
• He is available for everyone, regardless of caste, education, age and so on.
• He easily awards liberation.
• He is identical with Krishna, thus a completely transcendental person.
• He immediately shows effect when chanted.
• He does not depend on initiation and the activities observed before initiation.
• He does not depend on time, place and circumstances.
Summed up, the holy name is self-sufficient, unlike any other process for spiritual elevation. Thus, the chanting of Krishna’s holy name is the topmost activity for the living entity. Srila Sanatana Gosvami, by examining the difference between meditating on the Lord and chanting His holy name, comes to the same conclusion: