RE: Ravindra Swarup’s “Error of Zakheimism” argument against the DOM
June 13, 2010
Dear Ravindra Swarup Prabhu,
Please accept my humble obeisances. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Thank you for electing to join in this critical discussion. I have read your 5-point argument against the Direction of Management and this is my conclusion: You have not managed to procure a formal, signed, civil order or amendment from Srila Prabhupada nullifying the Direction of Management, and therefore, legally, it stands.
No court will uphold the claim that Srila Prabhupada no longer wanted the Direction of Management simply because elections were not held in the 2 three-year periods between 1970 and 1977, nor that exercising His Power to personally appoint during His Lifetime means nullification of the DOM. Srila Prabhupada was quite clear on this point – that when personally Present, He could and would personally appoint, and did.
Point #3 of your statement below may appear to suspend elections, but in actuality is referring back to Srila Prabhupada’s Statements that He will appoint GBCs in His Lifetime, and that after He enters Samadhi, GBCs will be elected by the terms of the Direction of Management. Please compare the language of your cited GBC resolution with that of the Direction of Management, page 2, line item 22:
“As we have increased our volume of activities, now I think a Governing Body Commission (hereinafter referred to as the GBC) should be established. I am getting old, 75 years old, therefore at any time I may be out of the scene, therefore I think it is necessary to give instruction to my disciples how they shall manage the whole institution.”
The Direction of Management is an “instruction” for how to “manage the whole institution” once Srila Prabhupada is “out of the scene”, meaning after Srila Prabhupada has entered into Samadhi and is no longer personally available to select GBCs. Therefore there is no conflict between your cited GBC resolution point #3 “no elections”, and the Direction of Management order, and is furthermore supported by your point #6 (actually #5) citing Srila Prabhupada’s Will – “The system of management will continue as it is now and there is no need of any change.”
Both US civil law and Srila Prabhupada are in agreement that “you must be very careful what you write, but you can say any damned thing,” and legally, the one comment from Srila Prabhupada on 28 May 1977 does not nullify the Direction of Management. If one closely analyzes the conversation the comment can be interpreted in several ways depending on which previous statement Srila Prabhupada is modifying, and what He means when He says “selected to act” versus His earlier word choice of “elected”, as in accordance with the terms of the Direction of Management.
Satsvarupa’s interjection of “by the votes of the present GBC” is irrelevant because Srila Prabhupada did not confirm the statement, and Satsvarupa continued speaking. Nevertheless, this conversation still fails to legally nullify the Direction of Management order, first given in 1970, re-stated in 1974, established in 1975 and 1976 in the ISKCON California and Bay Area Articles of Incorporation respectively, and then presented and recorded as evidence by the ISKCON GBC to establish the legitimacy of the ISKCON GBC by Badri Narayan das in the Long Island Court in 2004, an action in complete contradiction with your statement below.
Your eternal servant,
Roupamanjari devi dasi
______________________________________________________________
Ravindra Svarupa dasa: ERROR OF ZAKHEIMISM
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Here are the reasons I remain unpersuaded by the Zakheimites:
1. The provision in the Direction of Management for electing a GBC was never
implemented in Srila Prabhupada’s time. I hold that had Prabhupada wanted to
implement it, he would have done so. There is strong evidence that
Prabhupada was perfectly capable of imposing his will on his managers. He
had proven himself quite able to deal effectively with one conspiracy to
subvert him in 1970-did he do that only to succumb to another? I don’t think
so.
2. Prabhupada drew up the Direction of Management; at the same time, there
is evidence to show that he had mixed feelings about elections. On the one
hand, he wrote to Tamal Krishna on 13 October 1969:
“One thing should be followed, however, as your countrymen are more or less
independent spirited and lovers of democracy. So everything should be done
very carefully so that their sentiments may not be hurt. According to
Sanskrit moral principles, everything has to be acted, taking consideration
of the place, audience and time.”
On the other hand, he wrote to Karandhara on 19 July, 1973: “Democracy in
spiritual affairs is not at all good but breeds power politics. We should be
careful about power politics.”
3. In 1975 Srila Prabhupada guided the GBC in the conduct of its first
formal annual general meeting. He instituted parliamentary procedure, and in
the first session he voted along with everyone else (to show how it is to be
done). He caused the resolutions passed to be recorded by the secretary in
an official minute book. He personally signed off on the resolutions passed.
In that meeting, the fifth resolution record in the minute book repeals the
provision for GBC election in the Direction of Management:
“5) Resolved: The selection of GBC members is that Srila Prabhupada will
nominate, and if there is a discrepancy, His Grace will change him. There
will be no elections, and the present GBC member will remain.”
Notice: “There will be no elections.”
5. On 28 May, 1977, an official delegation of the GBC met with Srila
Prabhupada with questions for him about GBC, initiation, and translation in
the future, particularly when Prabhupada would be no longer with us.
Concerning the GBC:
“Satsvarupa: . . . . These are the members of the original GBC as you first
made it up. So our first question is about the GBC members. We want to know
how long should they remain in office?
Prabhupada: They should remain for good.
Tamala Krsna: They should remain for good.
Prabhupada: Selected men are chosen, so they cannot be changed. Rather, if
some competent man comes, he should be added. I shall recommend that
Vasudeva become one of the GBC.
Tamala Krsna: Vasudeva is Deoji Punja. He’s the founder of our… He’s
building the temple in Fiji.
Prabhupada: How many GBC’s are there already?
Tamala Krsna: Twenty-three.
Prabhupada: So add him. GBC is not to be changed.
Satsvarupa: But then, in the event that some present GBC member leaves,
either leaves . . .
Prabhupada: Another should be elected.
Satsvarupa: By the votes of the present GBC.”
The discussion then turns to the next topic. Some have found the above
exchange inconclusive, because Prabhupada gives no explicit consent to the
last statement of Satsvarupa (who expresses the GBC’s understanding of what
Prabhupada intended).
However, one should read the rest of the conversation. Characteristically,
at the end of the meeting, Srila Prabhupada reiterates the points he has
made. So the topic of GBC comes up again:
“Satsvarupa: That’s all the questions.
Prabhupada: So there is no question of changing GBC.
Satsvarupa: No.
Prabhupada: Rather, one who is competent, he can be selected to act by the
board of the GBC.”
6. Finally, in Srila Prabhupada “Declaration of Will,” dated June, 1977, the
second provision contains the statement: “The system of management will
continue as it is now and there is no need of any change.”
Your fallen servant,
Ravindra Svarupa dasa
I will add that Ravindra Swarupa’s point #1 is a logical fallacy,
because Srila Prabhupada was not in charge of implementing anything.
His leaders were exclusively given the option to accept or reject the
order to begin execution or implementation of the guidelines found
within the DOM. By their free-will they chose to disobey.
To blame Srila Prabhupada for not doing what was not his to do is not
reasonable.
In a broader sense, the argument might extend that he could have been
more adamant after the first or second refusals, imposed punishment to
coerce obedience as he had done at other times.
When this was actually what he was doing with the DOM. In essence he
was telling these people who thought they were more advanced than him
that they had to follow strict mode-of-goodness electoral procedure on
all decisions because that was as brahminically qualified as they had
proven to be.
This was a great blow to the false egos of those who Ravindra Swarupa
correctly points out had recently attempted a full on coup, which is
public knowledge.
That they did not accept, what was Prabhupada going to do to entice
them. They had recently locked him in a room in LA for almost a week
in a coup to extort powers from him!
So, Ravindra’s VERY FIRST POINT, is actually a very unreasonable
responsibility to place on Srila Prabhupada. Especially that 4 years
later Srila Prabhupada DEMANDED that with TOPMOST URGENCY the DOM be
appended to all Temple bylaws, and followed immediately.
I suppose it was his fault he didn’t whip us into shape then too. He
failed to implement it. Not us. Right Ravindra?
It appears an apology is in order from Ravindra Swarupa das. He
should apologize to all devotees, for saying such a thing. If he
doesn’t, I don’t think he has much longer til Krsna shows Ravindra who
the Implementer really is.
I wonder how he can consider himself a disciple of Srila Prabhupada
and hold such a view. It is astonishing to consider. I think such a
mindset qualifies him to the category that Srila Prabhupada dubbed,
“so-called disciple”.
I could eviscerate each of his other blunt points into the infinite
gossamer threads of dull nothingness they came from but why waste
time.
Hare Krsna
ys B.Mark
The Direction of Management was not meant to be acutally implemented unroll AFTER Srila Prabhupada went into samadhi? What would be the purpose of implementing it BEFORE going into samadhi??? It is a meaningless document when Srila Prabhupada was phisically here because the GBC are to follow His personal ( HANDS ON ) instructions. BUT. ……. AFTER He goes into samadhi it becomes a very relavant document
Gajendra Prabhu,
Hare Krishna! PAMHO AGTSP!
This is the obvious truth of the matter, but for self-appointed fascists donning saffron cloth, the last thing to be admitted. Ravindra and all the rest will continue to try to justify, excuse, suppress, ignore and manipulate what is plainly clear for all to see until they are forcefully ousted from power. This will only come about from the uprising of the masses and especially the ISKCON Temple Presidents.
Your eternal servant,
Roupamanjari devi dasi
Yes, but someone must take the lead to organize the
” SPIRITUAL UPRISING ” and the rest of the Prabhupadanugas
of the world must unite together to support it most sincerely.
HAS THE TIME COME TO ROCK THE BOAT ?
PAMHO–ALL GLORIES to HDG Srila Prabhupada
WAke Up Jiv JAGO Follow Prabhupada’s words and instructions ! on Iskcon management !
We care,,,we are not envious of the GBC/gurus -we are sacred as hell as whats happened to Iskcon and How its been COMPROMISED in the USA and UK.etc….
Prabhu’s…These are GRAVE Serious- times
The world is zooming to Hell in a hand basket at warp speed !
Its not the time to take rest………….!!! or Make excuse’s why not to Restore the D.O.M.+Iskcon
In This Material World…Its TIME to come to the TRUTH ! Prabhupadas TRUTH. !
The Demons are going to take control of EVERYTHING and Make World War 3
War on Iran,which could cause WWW3 ,,,Then N.Korea is Nuts too. Scary Times,,Prabhus
911 -False Flag WARS on so called —False Terror wars in the USA–GMO poisoned food….
The US and Governments have openly.and brazenly…………….
has taken away peoples constitutional RIGHTs and Demons Attacking Devotees will be Next.
Mother Earth is suffering and Enviormental /Disasters are So HUGE and Out of control as NEVER in the history of the world-Kali Yuga is oput of control. Iskcon must get ready for the fall of America and WW#3 Get preaching boldly. Iskcon was not intended by Srila Prabhupada to be Hindu/Mundane Religion—like the Catholic Church Etc…..
Iskcon leaders must not copy the CEO Materialists way of management for Iskcon.
Iskcon must follow Prabhupada’s DOM…..As Srila Prabhupads said-Whats the Difficulty ?
Iskcon must be STRONGER…Not Weaker—compromised-changed -watered down
HARI NAMS must not be neglected-SPs-,Book distribution must be RE vived BIG TIME
The Bhakta Ashram be returned to iskcon ASAP and Farm Communities established..
STRONG means Follow ALL Prabhupads’s Instructions and Not ignore them or change then
and call it Dovetailing or Time and Circumstance management. Its a cop out.
This DOM issue is a LEGAL/Legitimate document and Srila Prabhupads’s Direct Instruction
The GBC refused to properly DO it and The Rest is a disaster of -The History of Iskcon WOES
after 1978….onwards,,,corruption,deviations and compromises.offences by devotees and COVERUPS by the GBCs. Shameful. !
To Follow Prabhupads’a DOM can ONLY fix these problems of Iskcon. ! Not otherwise.
Some GBCs want to protect themselves ,more then protecting Prabhupada’s DOM iskcon
Its our duty to enforce the DOM ASAP its been neglected and ISKCON should ,Restore the original Iskcon set up by Srila Prabhupada…Dont take my word for it
Read Prabhupadas books,listen to his tapes,,,talk to His —Honest Disciples who are
OUTSIDE the institutional Belt…who have no ulterior motives or conflict of I involved in Iskcon… Temple Presidents—GBCs ie…inside. Party Men.–
To— follow ALL of Prabhupada’s instructions on Iskcon —-ALL:
is of upmost importance…The D.O.M. Direction of Management
is that KEY and to make it happen -IT WILL NOT HARM Iskcon
THis attempt to dismiss it,is promoting –BUSINESS AS USUAL–
ISKCON IS Not TO BE RUN LIKE Pepsi Cola -Centralization is wromg
To simply discount the DOM is very questionable behavior and baffling
No wonder devotees are not trusting /respecting most GBC anymore
No wonder so many thousands of devotees LEFT iskcon. ! Blown out by the GBCs/TPs. !
The TIme is running out for the USA and the World
I care about the future of Iskcon ! We all do ! Take the DOM serious !
Prabhus -By ALL Means ROCK THE BOAT NOW !!! Save -Prabhupada’s-Iskcon NOW !
Listen to Prabhupads’s own words and Do the Right Thing !
YOUR SERVANT,
Jaya MADHAVA DAS (ACBSP) MOSCOW at jayamadhavadas@hotmail.com
Go http://www.iskcon-dom.com -Talk to+ E mail your GBC and Temple Presidents ! Make a Case !
“The Direction of Management is an “instruction†for how to “manage the whole institution†once Srila Prabhupada is “out of the sceneâ€, meaning after Srila Prabhupada has entered into Samadhi and is no longer personally available to select GBCs.”
Roupamanjari:
Your argument above is untenable, because the system of elections described in the DOM involves some members being appointed by Srila Prabhupada and other members being elected. Thus, it could not have been intended as a system that was only to begin after Srila Prabhupada’s departure.
The 1975 GBC resolution was adopted by the GBC in Srila Prabhupada’s presence after he fully participated in the entire GBC meeting, and was signed by Srila Prabhupada himself, clearly expressing his own agreement that the election system he had initially devised in 1970 was to be scrapped.
He reiterated this in the May 1977 recorded conversation, which was expressly concerned with how things were to be managed after Srila Prabhupada’s departure.
The fact that no election was ever held from 1970 to November of 1977 is further evidence of a course of conduct that demonstrates that Srila Prabhupada by 1975 had decided to scrap the election scheme. Ravindra Swarup is right that this further demonstrates the plain, unambiguous interpretation of the 1975 GBC resolution approved by Srila Prabhupada: Those who were GBC members would remain as GBC members, without standing for election, and “there will be no elections.”
It does not say, “There will be no elections for the time being, and the first election will be held within __ months after Srila Prabhupada’s departure” or any such thing. The meaning is obvious to anyone who does not have a pre-determined agenda. Ravindra Swarup is right.
DOM was Acaryas writtten instruction about how the ISKCON movement, and specifically inregard to GBC should be managed. Historical facts show how the power hungry top man neglected it. Prabhupada is merciful, and He does His job, ahaituki apratihata, serving Krishna despite all hindrances and plots against His Mission, translating books and sprread the Holly Nameof Krishna. The obvious neglecting of the DOM in due course, and practically right from the beginnig does not make it invalid! Prabhupada gives us time to come to our senses, the question is how we do response to His mercy. DOM must be implemented in order to bring ISKCON back to where it belongs, Back to the Acarya A.C. Bbhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada. That is the way the sampradaya continues, and not by rejecting the orders of the Acaryas!