httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLhPvQJLyH0
BY: GAURASUNDARA DASA
Sep 02, 2010 — USA (SUN) — I heard someone ask as I walked by, “I wonder what happened to Sundar?” All I could do was stare and keep walking.
Thirty-one years ago I joined ISKCON Denver, USA. I, like most devotees who have surrendered their lives to Srila Prabhupada, have seen many individuals embarrass Srila Prabhupada and His movement. By their reckless and stupid immoral behavior, these unholy individuals drain the life out of the good, honest, pure devotees of ISKCON, of which there are many.
I used to love giving people the mercy of Srila Prabhupada by giving them a book and preaching His glories to others. Then one day a year after I joined, I was told of the former Temple President who looted the Temple funds and started his own real estate company.
So I thought that this was just one individual and he would be put in jail. He was not. I continued my service for four more years doing preaching work and collecting to pay the Temple’s bills. So I collected in this way for five years total, living in a crowded room with eight other brahmacaris. Life was austere; sometimes there was no heat at night and I would wake up shivering from the cold. We took icy baths in lakes in the winter when we were collecting funds for the Temple, breaking the ice to get to the water, and we lived in small vans.
One day the Temple President came looking for devotees to go to the Sunday feast and preach. I had to go on the alter that evening and dress the Deities, and was tired from doing Deity worship all day, so I explained that I wasn’t going to go and that I was preparing for my altar service. He told me in an angry way that I had to go or he would beat me up.
I told him to go ahead and try if he wanted to, but I wasn’t going to go. This made me think that I had collected over 3,000 a month for five years straight, and this was my fate? To be belittled? What to speak that only initiates of Srila Prabhupada were allowed to give class in Denver at the time. I asked to give class and was told that time in ISKCON meant nothing. They told me the stones on the altar had been there a very long time and they couldn’t give class either.
I was promised when I first started preaching that after five years, every devotee gets to go to India. When it was my turn to go to India… and this is after collecting over 100,000 dollars for the Temple… that I couldn’t go because Ramesvara Swami said that someone had embezzled a huge amount of money from the BBT. Hmmm… Ok… seems like a pattern here of people stealing money from Srila Prabhupada. I guess they will go to jail.
That year I threw my back out doing yoga and couldn’t walk for 2 days. I was in such terrible pain I felt like screaming. So I went to the Temple President and asked him for 35 dollars to go to the Chiropractor. I had to literally beg for the money as he kept refusing to give it. Finally he gave it to me after I begged him over and over again. At this point I realized the Temple President did not care about me at all; nor did he care about my feelings or spiritual life.
I asked my initiating guru, Ramesvara Swami, to be transferred to another Temple. I was traded like a baseball card for another devotee and sent to St. Louis Temple under Sura das. Sura das used to listen to all the devotees in his office by way of a two way speaker that was installed in every room of the Temple. He could hear everyone speak about everything as he sat in his office, until I told all the devotees that this was an invasion of privacy and bogus. We started cutting all the wires to his speakers and stopped his eavesdropping.
One day after being in the Temple for six months I walked in on Sura das, speaking to other initiates of Srila Prabhupada. He was laughing at all the people that were not initiated by Srila Prabhupada and saying how stupid and gullible we all were for accepting people like these as our gurus. He then said that it was great, because it was like the Mafia and all the leaders had complete control. I used to sit and cry and pray to Lord Krsna to leave St. Louis Temple after that, and Lord Krsna sent me Jagat Guru Swami to rescue me from this Temple, where we were all made fun of. And they were the ones making us chant Guru Puja to our initiated Gurus. It was required of us to do. And behind our backs we were their fools to be laughed at.
Sura also threatened me several times when I told him I was leaving. He threatened to hurt me in the Pujari room one day when I stood up to him and told him off. I told him to go ahead and try because at that point I was going to fight back.
Jagad Guru Swami took me to New York City six years after I joined the Temple, and explained to me along the way that they just found out that ISKCON’s children were being raped, beaten and humiliated in sexual ways in Mayapur and Vrndavan, India. I was shocked; neither could I have imagined that this activity was going on in a widespread way in Srila Prabhupada’s movement. He also told me that they found out that also in New Vrindaban, West Virginia, it was going on. And I found out later that it had also happened on a farm in Colorado. And the Gurus that we were worshipping were responsible for covering it up.
Even though doctors in India were sewing children’s anus parts back together after they were raped without mercy, no police were arresting the rapists? And two Gurus were the rapists themselves. And then it came to light within the next few years about the LSD Guru, and the Gun shooting Cow killing Guru; and then my initiating Guru, who was dating a 14 year old girl. And so I decided to take my Initiating Gurus picture off the altar and stop doing Guru Puja for him. And when I did, I was called many names by others. My new car was destroyed by someone pouring something in my gas tank… merciful devotees. My mail was opened before I received it… by the way, this is a federal offense. My room was broken into and searched. For my protection… I was shunned and told that I would not have any facility for myself and my new wife. So after 10 years living in an ISKCON Temple as a Temple devotee, I moved out with no money; a new wife; no car, and moved into the house of my mother.
Years later I thought that all this was over and I wanted my children to love Krsna the way Srila Prabhupada wanted us all to, so I let them stay in a newly set-up day care facility in Denver. I figured it would just be like a babysitter watching our kids and they were devotees, so why not trust them. I found out later that they were being beaten with a stick… about 4 years later when they were old enough to tell us. So now my children who I wanted to be devotees don’t want anything to do with Lord Krishna or temples because of this. And one of my sons is completely crazy and in a mental hospital because of this.
What really disturbs me is the lack of empathy on the leaders part in ISKCON. And so many big leaders run off with millions of Srila Prabhupada’s money. They are not put in jail for it because they are the insiders that have a lot of dirt on each other, and they will tell these dirty secrets to the general masses of devotees or to the authorities, and ISKCON will fall like a deck of cards. And this is why they can steal millions from Srila Prabhupada without being arrested.
What did I think when one of the LSD devil guru’s head was lopped off by a disgruntled follower? Good job. Or when the child molester guru’s head was hit with a hammer… too bad they didn’t finish….. the good job. So when the evil demons of Srila Prabhupada’s movement fall, I will be clapping, knowing that they will have to come back into this world not as Gurus, but as children…maybe not human ones…but children nevertheless.
Why do I write this letter? I found out that Bhavananda is in Mayapur sitting on a seat of respect and giving classes, calling everyone rascals. He was banned from ISKCON for life and now he is back giving classes. This is such an insult to all the children he raped, embarrassed, and molested. As well as to Srila Prabhupada. Also, I found out that in 1974, Bhavananda was caught having sex with a boy in the barn in Mayapur, India. Srila Prabhupada was still on the planet at the time. And I know that they told him about it. That is why I know now that there is no way in hell that Srila Prabhupada would ever tell Bhavananda to become an initiating Guru. Srila Prabhupada would never tell a pedophile that he was the next initiating spiritual master after Srila Prabhupada left the planet.
Of course, everyone in ISKCON is a siksa disciple of Srila Prabhupada eternally. I am sure that Srila Prabhupada wanted us all to be considered his disciples…with the advanced devotees performing the initiations and also being Siksa Guru to all new devotees. So yes, the initiators would also be teachers or Gurus; but we all would be connected to OUR Acarya, Srila Prabhupada. When you tell me you are a Srila Prabhupada disciple, I hope you are not the one that called my ex- wife and asked her to go to a bar and dance with him (Subananda dasa) …by the way …to me you are trash, Subananda dasa… So I will now call you Subananda trash dasa.
I never took a penny from ISKCON but always gave from my heart. The new scam is for the Temple Presidents to have their name put on the mortgage for the Temple and then to re-finance the building, keeping hundreds of thousands of dollars in their personal bank accounts and leaving the Temple devotees with a huge un-godly amount to be paid back when they steal it. I found one year that a Temple had purchased some land and no one knew about it. Only when the electric company asked for permission to lay power lines did the devotees find out that the Temple even owned land in another state.
Sometimes I just sit and wonder to myself… what happened to Sundar? I never received an apology from the Child Protection services for my children being beaten. And I do blame myself for having trusted evil, heartless, selfish leaders who very well may have poisoned Srila Prabhupada. He did say someone had poisoned him – more than likely because the pedophiles knew they would be kicked out by him, and they wanted to steal Srila Prabhupada’s Temples, followers, and bank accounts. I wish them well in hell. Actually, I wish that they suffer eternally. I hope God forgives them, because I do not. My children hate me because I am a devotee; my ex-wife left me because I was a devotee. I gave everything to ISKCON and lost my health, my family, my friends.
I also do not forgive the devotee who was babysitting my small children when they were 7 years old, and had them pass around a pot pipe to everyone. I wish you the worst, and had I known I would have called the police and had you arrested, because that led my children into thinking drug use was okay and it contributed to my son going crazy. You are scum.
So I will tell you that I am a real disciple of Srila Prabhupada. I am His follower. I am His disciple and He is my Acarya. You can’t take Him away from me. Especially the ones that Srila Prabhupada would kick out because of your evil hearts. I spit on your graves. But for the good devotees of Srila Prabhupada, and I do mean every one of you, I bow down to your Lotus Feet.
It is wise to look at past mistakes so that they will not be repeated in the future.
Your Servant,
Gaurasundara dasa
Namaste, Soul. . . I hear your anger – and feel your pain. To the anguish of many, I will simply say that the ISKCON of the buildings, money, territories, abusive thugs in the guise of Swamis and Temple authorities – – – and anyone who covets such things . . . has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the ISKCON of Srila Prabhupada. Clear your heart – forgive the fools who covet such nonsense and THINK that they have somethiing to do with Sri Chaitanya’s Movement, and with Krishna in your heart – and Prabhupad’s words in your heart, as well – either find someone who is a true deciple to learn from – – (probably has nothing whatsoever to do with ISKCON) or begin teaching yourself.
I once read a letter from Srila Prabhupad which said “. . . the tree of Sri Mahaprabhu’s movement has many branches, and ISKCON is only one such branch . . . ”
ISKCON is still there – and it is still pure – – but it has absolutely nothing to do with the buildings, or activities about which you spoke. In a sense we are all ISKCON (the international society of krishna consciousness) – and it is up to us (anyone who is sincere and surrendered to Krishna) to carry on Srila Prabhupada’s message and movement as best we can. Purity is the strength – – and humility is the key – – so when you loose that – you lose all the rest of it.
Many have lost the real message of Srila Prabhupada, and have been blind-sided by Maya devi . . . but many more have actually found ISKCON – – and it wasn’t in a temple. . .
All Glory to Sri Guru and Gauranga. . .
Hari bol
Namaste – – I wish there was an option to review one’s post before publishing. . . Many points above could have been made more clearly – – but let me just close as I should have closed the comment. . .
“But many more have actually found ISKCON – – and it wan’t in a temple — it was in their hearts. . . ”
The rooms, the pillows, the tiles Srila Prabhupada walked on – – yes, this is all “Prasadam” – – but His greatest Mercy resides in the hearts of those he truly touched – not in the “legal ownership”, the politics, or even such rooms – none of the things He touched, nor the places He walked can compare with the hearts that He changed – so let the dogs fight over their pile of dung – – and share with others only He who actually touched your heart.
There, I think that’s what I meant to say….
Hari bol
Hare Krsna. I understand exactly what you are expressing and am so appreciative that you still keep Srila Prabhupada in your heart and never ever gave up on him as your Guru. That initiation is eternal and that relationship alone can take you back to Godhead. Remember that. Chanting 16 rounds each day, following the 4 regs, keeping your vows to Srila Prabhupada and your relationship alive with your spiritual master is so important. Please dive into the nectar of spiritual life by reading his books. What has happened in the past and in the future sometimes cannot be changed or controlled by us. Yes, there are many hurtful things. So many devotees have been hurt and that is wrong. But we must go on and just depend on Srila Prabhupada and Sri Krsna and keep that our focus. This is important and will keep you strong. Hare Krsna. With love.
My realization after 26 years since I started to chant Hare Krishna Maha Mantra, first in FISKCON, and since 4 years apart from it, is that “Whatever I had to say, I have already said in my books. Now you must all try to understand it and continue with your endeavours.” Anything except this statement of the real Acarya, Srila Prabhupada, may even be top most best intend, anything derived by the means of mental, intelectual analysis (specualtion) is just maya! We have to openly admit that the most of the explanations of the guru tattva we are now offered from various groups of what we may call a Hare Krishna World are speculative, not realized and practiced by a current acarya, or pure devotee of Lord Sri Krishna. I say most of them, like 99% ! His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada had never written any Final Order in the form of a single letter, nor has He given any single nomination, assignment to particular individuals to become exclusive Gurus, or anything of that kind! First thing is, that we have to become pure disciples by the means of purely chanting Hare Krishna and performing as widely and as often as possible street Sankirtan, the Yuga Dharma, everything else is going then to be clear (revealed) automatically.
yasya deva para bhaktir yatha deve tatha gurau
tasyaite kathita hy arthah prakasante mahatmanah
“One who has unflinching faith in the Supreme Lord and the spiritual master, all the purports of the scriptures become revealed.”
This is only possible by the means of acaryopasanam, as our Acarya Srila Prabhupada said in the letter to Dayananda from 68-04-12 :
We have to** pick up the prominent acaryas, and follow from him.** There are many branches also from the parampara system, and it is not possible to record all the branches and sub-branches in the disciplic succession. We have to pick up from the authority of the acharya in whatever sampradaya we belong to.
There is all about the ways to success, no another concoction. Posthumous diksa by ritvik is a concoction, which generally under the plea of full surrender keeps us stuck to our subtle body, then weakens us and drives away from the real teachings of the true glories of the Holy Name of Lord Gouranga. Posthumous ritvik proposal is just another trick of maya, and a very clever one, that’s a fact. The only solution is, after the painful “FISKCON guru” lesson (the cheated and the cheaters met together) to understand our offense and start a real surrender attempt under the banner of the ISKCON FOUNDER and ACARYA, H.D.G. A.C. BHAKTIVEDANTA SWAMI SRILA PRABHUPADA. This is all we have to do, just listen from Him, and do the needful.
y.s. jd
Hare Krishna.
Respected Jagadharta Dasa.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
The sabha (assemble) is not very important, but the Bhagavata parampara.
A devotee may have received diksa (initiation) from someone who is not actually qualified to give krsna-bhakti. For example, the devotee may have followed others who inspired him to take diksa. It may be that he did not know the meaning of diksa when he took initiation, but that upon receiving the good association of a pure devotee afterwards, he came to understand, “I am receiving bhakti from this pure devotee.†Who, then, is his guru? Yäìhä haite krsna-bhakti sei guru haya. The person from whom one receives pure bhakti is actually guru, and he should be honoured as such. This is called bhägavata-paramparä.
There are two disciplic lines: the Pancharatrika-guru-paramparä and the bhägavata-guruparamparä. The bhägavata-guru-paramparä is the disciplic succession of self-realized souls who may be acting as either siksa-gurus or diksa-gurus. Pancharatrika-guru-paramparä is the disciplic succession consisting of diksa-gurus who may or may not be self-realized souls and who perform the formal procedures of initiation as delineated in sastra. The Pancharatrika-guru-paramparä will be included in the bhägavata-paramparä if the diksa-guru is a self-realized soul who can bring his disciple to the ultimate goal of life.
Srila Prabhupäda Bhaktisiddhänta Sarasvati Thakura, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, and Srila Rüpa Gosvämi have all accepted this bhägavataguru-paramparä. Sometimes, when the diksa-guru is a conditioned soul, the Pancharatrika-guru-paramparä may be illegal and against bhakti. In this case it stands alone and is not included in the bhägavataparamparä. The bhägavata-paramparä, however, under the guidance of siksa-gurus like Srila Rüpa Goswami, Srila Sanätana Goswami, Sri Svarüpa Dämodara, and Sri Räya Rämänanda, is always authentic. If a Pancharatrika-diksa-guru, in his constitutional spiritual form, is situated in a rasa which is lower than that of his disciple, the disciple must ultimately go elsewhere and take shelter of a Vaisnava who is qualified to give the appropriate superior guidance. It may happen that the guru and disciple in Pancharatrika-guru-paramparä are in the same rasa, but that the guru is not very highly qualified. Under such circumstances, the disciple must take shelter of an uttama Vaisnava for higher bhajana-siksa, and this Vaisnava will be called his guru in bhägavata-paramparä. We can see from these two considerations that the Pancharatrika process has some inherent defects, whereas the bhägavata-paramparä is completely free from these defects, and is flawless in all respects.
Dear and kind Dasanudas Prabhu, please accept my humble obeisances! Jaya Srila Prabhupada, ISKCON Founder and Acarya!
Your merciful explanation on guru and initiation so fare as I am concern is the best one I ever heard! I understand, that at the same time, You are rather generoulsy, out of compassion, avoiding to point out the fault of the out of air contrived idea of posthumous ritvik, or that of institutional, ecclesiastical , ritualistic, customary(smarta?) GBC guruship contrived FISKCON disaster. Am I right dear Prabhu? How much of new splits (speculations) may we stand? I am from Poland now, where I preach strongly for last four years against two above mentioned (with some internal fight/doubts involved), plus Neogaudiya Math fake acarya/dearmost friend(?!) scam, or the smaller once self claimed, selfmade “acaryas”, etc.
your fallen servant Jagaddhartadas
Thank You dear Dasanudas for Your kind, so enlightening commentary! Nothing more need to be said after such wise and complete explanation!
Your fallen servant Jagaddharta das
Thank You dear dasanudas Prabhu! This comment of Yours is the best explanation of the Guru tattva I have heard till now! I hope to meet You prabhu one day, so I may offer my dandavats to You:)
Your f.s. Jagaddharta das
dasanudas wrote: “Pancharatrika-guru-paramparä is the disciplic succession consisting of diksa-gurus who may or may not be self-realized souls”
Can you support this statement from Srila Prabhupada’s teachings?
Hare Krishna
Dear Prabhu “july9thâ€
AGTSP. PAMHO.
We are not followers of institutions. When Srila Prabhupada say: “A neophyte Vaisnava or a Vaisnava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples.” (NOI 5 P.) We understand it is illegal, as illegal is the initiation of the gurus of ISKCON on their own behalf because they are not independent and are initiating under control of GBC. They are mercenaries of the institution and legally those initiations can be considered only on behalf of the founder Acarya His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada Ki jay!
In this case is better to take diksa offering the japa to a photo of Srila Prabhupada directly in the same way that Srila Bhaktisiddhanta took sannyas initiation from a photo of Srila Gaura Kisora Das Babaji. Initiation is a state of consciousness and not a material formality.
Is illegal also, accordingly with Hari-bhakti-vilasa (2.9): “That religious undertaking which bestows divya-jñana, transcendental knowledge, and destroys papa (sin), papa-bija (the seed of sin), and avidya (ignorance) to the root is called diksa by learned authorities in the absolute truth.â€
“Di†means transcendental realization of one’s relationship with Krishna and “ksa†means destruction of the above-mentioned obstacles. Therefore, unless one gets initiation by a maha-bhagavata devotee, he has not received diksa in the real sense. And by this it fall in the category of karma-kanda or jñana-kanda a panchartatrika-diksa of the smarta community; this diksa is simply a samskara or impression.
this was the case of Sri Ramanuja Acarya and Sri Madhva Acarya leaders of Sri and Brahma sampradayas. Furthermore their process was the nine fold aspects of devotional service. But Lord Caitannya Mahaprabhu included the tenth process; vipralambha seva of raganuga bhakti.
In the song Guru Parampara (8) Srila Bhaktisiddhanta says: “Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura was the siksa-guru [instructing spiritual master] of Baladeva Vidyabhusana, to whom he taught the precepts of Srimad-Bhagavatam. Jagannatha Dasa Babaji was a very prominent acarya after Sri Baladeva Vidyabhusana and was the beloved siksa-guru of Sri Bhaktivinoda Thakura. Bhaktivinoda Thakura’s intimate friend and associate was the eminent maha-bhagavata Sri Gaurakisora Dasa Babaji, whose sole joy was found in hari-bhajana.â€
Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura could realize the spontaneous devotion of raganuga and therefore he gave more preference to Srila Jagannatha dasa Babaji Maharaja than to his diksa-guru Vipina-bihari Gosvami. Syamananda Prabhu, Narottama dasa Thakura, and Srinivasa Acarya gave more preference to Srila Jiva Gosvami than to their own diksa-gurus. Srila Krishnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami gave more preference to Srila Rupa Gosvami and Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami than to his diksa-guru, and he writes at the end of every chapter of his Sri Caitanya-caritamrta: “Sri-rupa-raghunatha-pade yara asa caitanya-caritamrta kahe Krishnadasa – praying at the lotus feet of Sri Rupa and Sri Raghunatha, always desiring their mercy, I, Krishnadasa, narrate Sri Caitanya-caritamita, following in their footsteps.†This is bhagavata-parampara and it is very good if the diksa-guru is also in this bhagavata-parampara. The concept of guru-tattua is much more elaborate and basically guru is Krishna the link depends on the bhakti that one print in this relationship through the transparent medium, the spiritual master.
May be you can have diksa from a Guru Maha-Bhagavata Parama-Utthama Adhikari. But if you don’t have the Adhikara; the eligibility or attitude, the behaviour, the divine nature, the faith or more directly if you receive the order of the holly name, but if you don’t chant with bhakti then Lord Krishna will not give any steep towards you. Similarly when you turn the hand in circles doing aratrik is not bhakti. When Yudhisthira Maharaj was worshiping Lord Krishna in the rajasuya yajña, he could not see the Lord because of the tears in his eyes.
Srila Prabhupada said to Prabhu Chiksusananda in cuernavaca México, in 1976 the following: “We can have the case of a devotee who stand up every day of the year at 3 A.M. He takes a bath and dress like a perfect vaisnava with doti, kurta, sika, tilak and then he goes to the hall of the temple to chant eight rounds before mangala aratrik. He assists to mangal aratrik and then he chants very static the tulasi kirtan. Afterwards the devotee chant other eight rounds and then he gives a very nice class of Srimad Bhagavatam reciting mantras of memory and telling puranic stories. During the daytime he can be engaged in all kind of activities to spread the Krishna consciousness movement, and at night the devotee can give a class of Bhagavad Gita or a lecture of Krishna Book before take a glass of hot milk and two puris and go to bed. The very much mentioned devotee may practice this routine for 30 years or more, but anyway he may have not even one per cent of Krishna consciousness.â€
How is possible it? Because the lack of faith. Even in the highest state of Krishna consciousness is needed the faith. This is the mystery of initiation. If you don’t have faith you can not give a steep in any scientific process. When Krishna went hidden of the gopis in the rasa dance they believed that He would appear chanting His name, but nothing happened. To which Srila Bhaktisiddhanta said: “What kind of service is this?”
Sraddha is the root of bhakti. This conclusion is supported in the statement of the Gita (6.47):
yoginam api sarvesam
mad-gatenantaratmana
sraddhavan bhajate yo mam
sa me yuktatamo matah
“O Arjuna, of all yogis, I consider the topmost yogi to be the one who constantly worships Me with great faith, with his mind deeply absorbed in loving attachment to Me.â€
Sri Bhagavan Himself states in Bhagavad-Gita (9.30): “Even if one is an abominable sinner, if he worships Me with exclusive devotion, he is to be considered a sadhu, for his intelligence is firmly situated in the proper determination.â€
In Hari-bhakti-vilasa (10.106) “Whether one is a brahmana, khatriya, vaisya, sudra, or an outcaste, if he has taken shelter of visnu-bhakti, he is considered to be superior to all.â€
Srimad-Bhagavatam (11.20.29-30) “When the sadhaka constantly worships Me by the method of bhakti-yoga that I have described, I come and sit in his heart. As soon as I am established there, all material desires and samskaras, the impressions, on which the material desires are based, are destroyed. When the sadhaka directly sees Me as Paramatma situated in the hearts of all living entities, the knot of the false ego in his heart is pierced, all of his doubts are cut to pieces, and his desires for fruitive activities are completely eradicated.â€
I hope you find well and ecstatic in Krishna Consciousness.
My question was:
dasanudas wrote: “Pancharatrika-guru-paramparä is the disciplic succession consisting of diksa-gurus who may or may not be self-realized soulsâ€
Can you support this statement from Srila Prabhupada’s teachings?
In your reply I fail to see how you have supported your statement. Pointedly that, “diksa-gurus who may or may not be self-realized souls.†This is nonsense – as you have stated in your reply, ““Di†means transcendental realization of one’s relationship with Krishna and “ksa†means destruction of the above-mentioned obstacles. Therefore, unless one gets initiation by a maha-bhagavata devotee, he has not received diksa in the real sense.”
In otherwords how can a non-self-realized soul give ““Di†means transcendental realization of one’s relationship with Krishna” if as a non-self-realized soul he doesn’t have such realization?
PAMHO! AGTSP!
I am just trying to understand your doubts july9th for myself, so please excuse my interruption here. Dasanudas’as description depicts the state of being, He dosn’t try to establish here anything on his own:) Whether bona fide or not, the pancaratrika lines exists, in case of anautorised, i.e. non realized guru/pancaratrika type lines, they devotional power will gradually vanish, those proving wrong. Apart from the pure parampara Brahma Madhva Gaudiya line we have all possible sahajiya sects still going on, some mutate into new forms and shapes, though most of them before they deviated, came from Lord Krishna Caitanya’s Tree. Srila Prabhupada sees them as devotees, like the scriptures and other acaryas as well, though they may be prakrita sahajiya, He/They classifies them as Krishna devotees nevertheless
Our line is not institutional at all, no institutional ecclesiastical ritual of any sort can free us from ahankara and envy, since only our free choice make the difference, those we can placed ourselves in proper, or wrong devotional relation, thus making our way back to Godhead short and secure, or a long and dangerous one.
Raksasas have usurped Srila Prabhupada´s Iskcon. Don´t tolerate these rascals demons anymore. Personally, I´m cannot wait to spit in their graves, and I hope that they burn in hell forever. Yes, FOREVER. I swear you that I didn´t cried when my mother died, and I was eigth years old. Now I´m almost fifty years old, and the tale of this devotee made me cry. I pray to see the sky, in a heavy rain of fire, falling over the heads of these shameless DEMONS.
“El camino del hombre recto está por todas partes rodeado por las injusticias de los egoístas y la tiranía de los hombres malos. Bendito sea aquel pastor que en nombre de la caridad y de la buena voluntad saque a los débiles del valle de l …a oscuridad, porque él es el auténtico guardián de su hermano y el descubridor de los niños perdidos.
Pero os aseguro que vendré a castigar con gran venganza y furiosa cólera a aquellos que pretendan envenenar y destruir a mis hermanos, y sabrán que Mi nombre es Yahvé cuando caiga Mi venganza sobre ellos”.