Dusyanta dasa: "Even many present GBC/Gurus talk in the same terminology as the Rtviks do. It would appear you are losing the battle and the war.. "
BY: DUSYANTA DASA
Sep 16, 2010 — UK (SUN) — Dearest Ajamila Prabhu, Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. I remember back in the 1980s at Bhaktivedanta Manor, you would argue loudly with H.H Sivarama Swami about the Rtvik issue.
In those days you were most definitely for the idea of the Rtvik. For a few years you would be confident that your arguments were not just right, but you proved it all through Guru, Sadhu and Sastra.
After Bhagavan (Goswami) had fallen from devotional service and had left his post at pretending to be an uttama-adhikari diksa guru capable of continuing the Disciplic Succession, we had many debates at Bhaktivedanta Manor in Srila Prabhupada’s rooms.
There were many visiting Sannyasis and other pretend Diksa Gurus, who have also fallen from devotional service, who brought the latest arguments against the Rtvik idea.
The debates were very well attended by the Vaisnavas and as time went by and debates subsided, some Vaisnavas decided on their own fate rather than listening any longer to the circular debates that got nowhere.
In one debate in Srila Prabhupada’s room there was one female devotee who challenged the very concept that you are trying to establish in your article. That was over 25 years ago. And now you are trying to re-establish the same concept.
From what you have said, it looks like you are saying that everything the GBC and the Diksa Gurus have established is bona fide. I can’t imagine for one minute anyone will ever accept that premise.
Then after some time you took the totally opposite view, the antithesis of what you had been so vehemently preaching for some years. For a lot of Vaisnavas your u-turn was perplexing.
How can you be so absolute on a point of philosophical understanding for so many years, and then totally against your own preaching the next years? This is not very conducive for trust and faith of the Vaisnavas who would earnestly inquire from you as an independent Vaisnava.
In those years and subsequent years, we have had a lot of concepts thrown at the members of ISKCON. We have to sift through this barrage of philosophical speculations continually.
Even senior devotees have had to suffer the onslaught of continually revamped concepts about who has been authorised, who is qualified, how Diksa Gurus always fall down, the Disciplic Succession ending, double meanings of simple English words, and whole swathes of dramatic presentation.
What is the problem with just following Srila Prabhupada’s instructions of following 4 regulative principles and chanting 16 rounds a day and reading His Books? The more ideas that the GBC/Gurus have put in the mix has only distorted the simple instructions we have received.
Over the last 30 years, the GBC have contradicted themselves so much they obviously don’t know what they are talking about, otherwise why would they keep contradicting themselves?
They have produced well over 15 papers that have been the “once and for all” conclusion concerning diksa gurus, continuing the Disciplic Succession, and Srila Prabhupada’s “clear” instructions on this matter. It’s been about as clear as mud.
Not only have the Vaisnavas listened with their rapt attention for so many years now and many have stuck with ISKCON through all this, but many senior devotees have also disagreed with the GBC/Gurus, and even though they might not be backing the Rtvik idea, they definitely see all the shortcomings with the process that is current in ISKCON, which is also not supported by Guru, Sadhu and Sastra, as explained by the GBC themselves. In fact we have never seen a united GBC with continuity, solidified in philosophy and correct.
Members of the GBC have, in fact, had opposing personal views for a considerable number of years, and the GBC have changed their minds concerning their own members bonafide-ness. The magazine called ‘Back to Prabhupada’ has listed all the contrary:
1. Papers
2. Conclusions and findings
3. Behaviour of so-called Gurus
4. Statements of intent
5. Definitions of diksa gurus and continuation of Disciplic Succession
6. Srila Prabhupada’s meanings of simple English words
7. Qualifications and Authorisations
In this present article you have produced, you have managed to be fairly inaccurate concerning the subject you are dealing with. This is a common approach by Vaisnavas trying to defeat a particular process that they don’t agree with. You have not been able to deal with the subject in hand.
If it is so easy to defeat, then why don’t you do that instead of a challenging mood as if you want to “win”. The terminology that you have surrounded yourself in to deal with this is as if you have something personal to gain from it.
We all know this has been around since the letter of July 9th 1977 and all the other letters written by Srila Prabhupada concerning the Rtvik process. Isn’t it just a matter of being able to counteract those pieces of evidence with a more superior evidence that straightforwardly defeats those documented evidences?
If it is as simple as you say, then it beggars the question: why is it still around and why do Vaisnavas the world over just want Srila Prabhupada as their Diksa Guru? And why do you have a problem with them wanting that, even if it is not sastrically strong… so what?!
The point is, are you actually concerned for their welfare or are you just doing it for some kind of fame and distinction? Why does it matter to you what other Vaisnavas do?
Haven’t we had a whole load of Vaisnavas doing all sorts of nonsense in the name of Srila Prabhupada who had positions in the GBC, and Gurus in the past, so why don’t you attack them as well? Are you sure you are purely motivated?
I also believe that a lot of your “irrefutable” evidence is just not what you say it is. I believe I could make an adequate presentation using the same evidence to prove another conclusion. This subject has been hammered out on so many websites, debates, papers, magazines for years now.
The great GBC-Rtvik debate is still on YouTube and can be seen in many installments, and it was also not a conclusive debate. Even many present GBC/Gurus talk in the same terminology as the Rtviks do. It would appear you are losing the battle and the war.
Just sitting on the fence for the last 27 years, I don’t subscribe to what the official GBC/Guru conclusion is, if any of it even makes sense, and I feel empathy to the Rtviks for putting Srila Prabhupada back in the centre of ISKCON, where he belongs.
We have to accept whether we like it or not that a lot of devotees coming to ISKCON and a lot of devotees from the past in ISKCON really only want to surrender to Srila Prabhupada. I know for me, Srila Prabhupada is my shelter and I missed seeing Him on my eyeballs by 3/4 years. I hope that’s alright with you Ajamila?
Your servant in the service of the great Vaisnava devotees of the Lord,
Dusyanta dasa
The genuine guru personally orders his disciple to become guru, when that disciple reaches the level required by his guru and when the guru estimates that his disciple should begin initiating new people into the line. Obviously, the genuine guru will never personally give such an order to any disciple who still possesses even one anartha. A guru cannot have anarthas; that is not possible. There is no such thing as a bad guru or a pseudo-guru or a sahajiya guru; but this is the worst thing of all and considered a new kind of atrocious: “A Collective Acharya.†Evidently these kinds of “devotees†are loaded with anarthas and they pass their anarthas on to their initiated disciples, converting ISKCON into a clandestine cult. The GBC should be accepted as “The Supreme Authority†and of course they claim that they have to be worshipped as “Mahabhavagatas.â€
This imposition of these men as “mahabhagavats†–all of whom are loaded with personal and institutional anarthas– was a scheme that appeared unbeatable at first. They all had their own zones of influence. Had they stayed in their turfs and not criticized one another —if they had also not attempted so many outrages— then the concoction is to dominate everything and everyone. However, when conditioned souls, loaded with anarthas, imitate guru –and particularly when they imitate the actual self-realized soul– their destruction is arranged for by the demigods. This is, in part, because they are imitating the demigods.
The immeasurable pride and audacity of these pretender mahabhagavats are not merely the megalomania of some powerful leader of a nation-state. No. All of these men are absorbed in the delusion of self-apotheosis. They are all absorbed in the material mind and in their lusts and desires (kama-sankalpa), thinking these desires to be absolute. They are all absorbed in anger and hatred against anyone who criticized or thwarted them in any way. They are all very insane, but, due to having performed some buddhi-yoga in years past, they are still (generally) shrewd in their insanity. They are completely intoxicated of proud by their great power over others, by the gopis who dance for them in front of their so-called vyasasans, and by the buzz they received on a daily and hourly basis as objects of worship by hundreds of dedicated fools and fanatics. They are regularly subjected to the fear of their scheme being exposed, especially by knowledgeable god brothers who could see the fault lines in this unauthorized arrangement. They are very greedy for more and more fame and influence, more and more “knowledge†of ways to better pull the whole thing off, for more and more disciples, more and more power and more and more Laxmis or Gopis.
They are “GBC†loyal. The “ISKCON†movement is completely under the control of the “GBC.†Unlike ISKCON, however, the real GBC no longer exists—and, as far as that goes, it never did function in a bona fide way for a great deal of time even while Srila Prabhupada was still with us. The evolution of this governing body has been long in duration, the offences have been very great and the GBC has been ruined permanently, warped and perverted into the “GBC.â€
The most important thing to consider here is that Srila Prabhupada did not approve the Politicians or Party Men. He in effect condemned this kind of functionary. The “ISKCON†movement is dominated by Party Men. The Party Men cooperate (conspirate) with the Zonals (of course, the Zonals themselves are all Party Men) and help to empower them. The Party Men (faction) is a multi-faceted dynamic, composed of fanatics, sycophants, henchmen and temple officers. It always has been so. The Men of the Party “ISKCON†represent themselves as if they are in Krishna Conscious resolving everything saying; “This is a Krishna’s arrangement.†The dynamic of the Party Men is found in that their thoughts, character and personality are clones of Prabhupada and are at the same level of the Supreme Lord’s Thoughts, Character and Personality.
To ensure their position in the Party; the men measure the ideals in terms of their position in the corporate structure. Then whatever they are doing or saying is considered spiritual by them. So for them sexual education is spiritual education. The preaching of follow the four principles, the chanting of the 16 rounds and to make of your home a temple has no meaning for them. When their preaching of “knowledge†reaches the summit they say: “We can cheat many people for a little while, or we can cheat few people for long time, but we cannot cheat many people for long time.†And: I am vegetarian because my doctor asks me this; but when I go to a party I don’t fall in lies with myself….â€
The Party Men shift with the ever-changing winds of corporate doctrine, because they are devoted of the “GBC.†The Party Man is a particularly nasty piece of work. He usually comes in the form of a sannyas and habitually completely without genuine conscience. His intelligence always works to ponder the Party Line and the current momentum; he always wants to make sure that he will be on the side that is winning. His shibboleth is: “‘ISKCON’–with all thy faults–I still love thee!†He is always backs the current transformation and “We are in permanent transformation.†The only constant is the change.
The Party Men at the topmost stratum are the real controllers of this kaitava-dharma and they are not entirely members. They are protected by back-guards and killers. They openly say: “I am not Hare Krishna, but a servant of God.â€
Indeed, as far as astral powers are concerned, they are not ordinary men. They are like the brain police (totalitarism) and they control almost all the other devotees; powerful Party Men even have the ability to influence malcontents. These are some of the techniques of the Party Men, who are masters at creating doubt and guilt, masters of deception, masters at bewilderment, masters at enticement, masters at pseudo-persuasion and, when the situation calls for it, masters at harassment and various psychic punishments. They have their own spheres, both gross and subtle.
The various followers, who are weak in knowledge, mind control, and yogic development, can hardly escape the network of the Party Men once they become entangled in it. The Party Men buttress this astral network via the world wide travels, buildings, Deities, vehicles, properties and money on the gross plane, and those innocent but foolish devotee followers are completely trapped by them and their manifestations. If such neophytes try to escape, ultimately they have to contend with danda from the Party Men. Take it from one who knows: You will not come out unscathed when the Party Men decide to punish you. But all the mud they have thrown on so many people is now starting to get tossed back their way and that momentum will continue. There is a universal principle involved in that: Some call it the law of karma.
Krishna Consciousness means to see as Lord Krishna sees, to see as the Chaitya-guru or Paramatma sees. To become Krishna Conscious means to see the Party Men as what they really are.
vidyam cavidyam ca yas
tad vedobhayam saha
avidyaya mrtyum tirtva
vidyayamrtam asnute
“Only one who can learn the process of nescience and that of transcendental knowledge side by side can transcend the influence of repeated birth and death and enjoy the full blessings of immortality.†Sri Isopanisad Mantra 11
We are delineating the process of nescience for your spiritual well-being and ultimately, so that you can transcend the influence of repeated birth and death and enjoy the full blessings of immortality. The “GBC†is part of the process of nescience. The “ISKCON†controls are so. The process of recognizing gurus in “ISKCON†is integral to the power of the Party Men who serve to keep everyone they can implicate in their nescience.
At this point an objection might be raised. The reader might protest that this treatise is “too negative.†Is it so? Well, we first must know what constitutes “negativity.†New Agers used to say: “Do not be judgmental; no negativity.†However, if we analyze that motto, we see that it is itself composed of three negative components. The issue is not objective negativity; the issue is the application of negativity. When a surgeon removes a cancerous tumour, the bloody operation involves quite a bit of negative action. However, if successful, that outcome is judged very positive. So the modus operandi takes a back seat to the outcome, as far as the final judgment is concerned, especially when the operation is a success (this, by the way, is a proper example of Prabhupada phalena-pariciyate *the answer is the proof* statements).
There are universal laws and principles to make sure such combustible instability does not last long. These men were initiating new people, all of whom had little or no knowledge of the Vedic or Vaishnava teachings, all of whom had little or no detachment from material enjoyment, and all of who were prime candidates to be mislead by powerful, charismatic pretenders: “The ignorant pseudo religionists and the manufacturers of so-called incarnations who directly violate the Vedic injunctions are liable to enter into the darkest region of the universe because they mislead those who follow them. . . If such foolish men have any knowledge at all, it is more dangerous in their hands than ignorance itself. . . The pseudo religionists have neither knowledge nor detachment from material affairs, for most of them want to live in the golden shackles of material bondage under the shadow of philanthropic activities disguised as religious principles.
By a false display of religious sentiments, they present a show of devotional service while indulging in all sorts of immoral activities. In this way, they pass as spiritual masters and devotees of God. Such violators of religious principles have no respect for the authoritative acaryas, the holy teachers in the strict disciplic succession. . . Instead, to mislead the people in general, they themselves become so-called acaryas, but they do not even follow the principles of the acaryas. . . These rogues are the most dangerous elements in human society. Because there is no religious government, they escape punishment by the law of the state. They cannot, however, escape the law of the Supreme, who has clearly declared in the Bhagavad-gita that envious demons in the garb of religious propagandists shall be thrown into the darkest regions of hell (Bg. 16.19-20).
Sri Isopanisad confirms that these pseudo religionists are heading toward the most obnoxious place in the universe after the completion of their spiritual master business, which they conduct simply for sense gratification.†Sri Isopanisad, Verse 12, purport.
At this point, it is important to get some understanding of spiritual or devotional initiation. The pretender mahabhagavats conducted many initiation ceremonies. Real initiation in the devotional line means to receive the bhakti-lata-bija. Some devotees opine that it can only be received by getting it from a manifest mahabhagavat. There are sastric counter-indicators, as well as favourable commentary on those by Srila Prabhupada. Of course, those indicators will be misused in Kali Yuga by powerful men labouring to fulfil their own personal ambitions. The issue of the transference of the bhakti-lata bija is a very subtle topic. While Srila Prabhupada was manifest, all devotees who received initiation from him had the bhakti-lata bija planted in their heart of hearts. That does not, however, mean that all those devotees were completely sheltered from receiving other bijas during that time. For instance, the “ISKCON†bija was infecting the Party Men during the time of Prabhupada manifest lila and since then, that weed has turned out to be the predominant bija of the twisted three.
The point has been made that getting initiated during the time of Srila Prabhupada manifest preaching activities was an easy accomplishment. From one perspective, this argument appears to have teeth, because approximately five-thousand devotees did receive initiation during that eleven-year period. However, recommendations to Prabhupada for initiation almost always came through the medium of various hierarchical authorities: Temple Presidents, GBCs, and sannyasis were the primary persons who made these recommendations. And here is where you need to contemplate and understand a very subtle point. Even while Prabhupada was with us, the Party Men –in their patented niyamagraha fashion– considered that spiritual advancement was non-different from moving up the latticework of the bureaucratic rungs, i.e., distinction as a Temple President automatically connoted a spiritual advancement superior to all the “inmates†(under his orders) in that temple.
Similarly, receiving sannyasa was only for an aristocratic devotee who was allowed to all sorts of commodities and servants, that allegedly amounted to automatic recognition of higher spiritual realization. And getting posted to the governing body was more or less considered equivalent to being the most spiritually advanced, the best man amongst all the other initiated devotees. Similarly the marriages were only between ugly females with awesome devotees and keep so the beautiful girls always running towards the authorities searching for a husband.
Time, insight and experience have shown all of this to be a misconception. Within the temples, devotees who wanted to receive initiation from Srila Prabhupada did not necessarily do so in the context of the same motivation. Since the conduit to receive initiation was the approval of the Temple President (or, in some cases, the sannyasi who headed their party), sucking up to the leader–a kind of profit, adoration, and distinction offering to him—was sometimes employed in order to receive the recommendation more quickly and more easily. Other devotees did not consider the various Temple Presidents to be all that they thought they were, but these devotees still performed their seva—sometimes in severe austerity—under the sanction of their Temple President.
A.C. “Bhaktivendanta†Swami is no more the acarya or Prabhupada in “ISKCON†since 1977 and by that all his books can be changed and his institution dismounted because (accordingly to the “GBCâ€) he disappeared in 1977, and all his money, girls, lands, properties, power, domination and servants passed away too in another hands.
“….Do not tries to initiate. You are not in a proper position now to initiate anyone . . . Don’t be allured by such maya . . . Don’t be allured by cheap disciples. Go on steadfastly to render service first. If you immediately become guru, then the service activities will be stopped; and as there are many cheap gurus and cheap disciples, without any substantial knowledge, and manufacturing new sampradayas, and with service activities stopped, and all spiritual progress choked up.†— Letter to Acyutananda/Jaya Govinda on Aug. 21, 1968 from Montreal (emphasis added)
“Secretary: What about the so-called gurus that takes a little bit here, a little bit there? Prabhupada: So-called gurus, they are so-called gurus. They are not gurus. That is already explained. If one does not speak what Krishna speaks, he is not guru. If you accept so-called guru, that is your misfortune. What can be done?
Secretary: Some of them will say some things that Krishna says, but they’ll take from other places also. What is the position of such persons?
Prabhupada: He’s most dangerous. He’s most dangerous. He is opportunist. He’s finding out customer, something here … According to the customer he is giving something, as the customers will be pleased.†— Answers to Questionnaire Room Conversation on June 28, 1976.
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja wanted that the next guru should be this disciple who would accomplish to successfully spread the Sankirtan movement all over the world.
Prabhupada followed his guru, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja and did not appoint any successor diksa-gurus.
So it is rather something like turning a whole continent into a Krishna conscious society what the next acarya candidate has to accomplish in order to meet the criteria for becoming the next acarya.