The myth of the “living Guru”
[…]Prahladananda Swami, a voted-in ISKCON Guru, wrote in his travel diary the following account:”Traveling to Serbia we visited Subotica where I gave initiations. Some just initiated disciples of HH Bhakti Tirtha Maharaja also sat in at the fire sacrifice.”
(Prahaladananda Swami, “On the Road” Blog, 30/6/2005)
Here Prahaladananda Swami reveals that some devotees who had been “initiated” by Bhakti Tirtha Swami, attended the initiation ceremony which he was performing for his own disciples. In other words, Prahladananda Swami officiated as a “ritvik” priest at an initiation ceremony on behalf of a departed “Guru”, Bhakti Tirtha Swami. However as the account mentions, the devotees in question were already considered “initiated”. Thus even the GBC accepts that the initiation ceremony does not constitute initiation, with initiation having already taken place, and that the physical presence of the Guru is not required at the ceremony, or indeed on the planet at the time of the ceremony. So then when is the Diksa Guru required to be present on the planet as an absolute necessity in the life of a disciple? This is what we will now examine in detail.
Before Initiation
It is argued that before initiation can be granted to a prospective disciple, the Guru must be physically present on the planet so that he can personally meet the disciple and examine him. Indeed, this is the traditional method, whereby the Guru and disciple would associate for an extended period, so they could check each other’s qualifications. However, in ISKCON the system for fulfilling this requirement was different, as explained by Srila Prabhupada below:
“Similarly, a disciple’s qualifications must be observed by the spiritual master
before he is accepted as a disciple. In our Krsna consciousness movement, the requirement is that one must be prepared to give up the four pillars of sinful life—illicit sex,meat-eating, intoxication and gambling. In Western countries especially, we first observe whether a potential disciple is prepared to follow the regulative principles. Then he is given the name of a Vaisnava servant and initiated to chant the Hare Krsna maha-mantra, at least sixteen rounds daily. In this way the disciple renders devotional service under the guidance of the spiritual master or his representative for at least six months to a year.”
(Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhyalila, 24:330, purport)
This observation, as Srila Prabhupada states above, was to see if the prospective disciple was following the 4 regulative principles, and as Srila Prabhupada states this observation could be done either by Srila Prabhupada or his representative. In practise, this observation was carried out almost exclusively by his representative, the Temple President, and indeed this was the standard system in ISKCON right from the early days of the movement. Somebody would join a temple, a few months later the Temple President would send a recommendation for initiation, and the devotee would be initiated via the mail, having never met Srila Prabhupada. For example:
“If you think so, Gary can be initiated by post and you can arrange it for him.”
(Letter to Upendra, 18/11/68)
And then 2 weeks later:
“P.S. Gary is initiated yesterday and his name is Gajendra das.”
(Letter to Upendra, 2/12/68)
In this way, this became the standard system for initiation as the hundreds of initiation letters available on the Vedabase will show, right up until 1977. However, when Srila Prabhupada was personally present at a centre, then he would meet and initiate devotees personally where possible. Sometimes he would also correspond with a prospective disciple beforehand before the initiation. But in most cases, the pattern was initiation via the mail following recommendation from the Temple President, without any contact with the prospective disciple himself.
During Initiation
Now though we have seen that disciples were initiated sight unseen, simply on recommendation of the Temple President via the mail, Srila Prabhupada was physically required to be on the planet, to accept and initiate the prospective disciple, even if it was done via the mail. However, within the ritvik system set up by Srila Prabhupada in 1977, this acceptance and initiation of the disciples was delegated entirely to the ritvik representatives, and hence Srila Prabhupada had no involvement in the process of initiation at all:
Srila Prabhupada: So without waiting for me, wherever you consider it is right… That will depend on discretion.
Tamala Krsna: On discretion.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: That’s for first and second initiations.
Srila Prabhupada: Hm.
(Appointment of Ritviks, Room Conversation, 7th July, 1977)
Then confirming this delegation, two days later the July 9th directive signed by Srila Prabhupada is issued, in which it is stated:
“In the past Temple Presidents have written to Srila Prabhupada recommending a particular devotee’s initiation. Now that Srila Prabhupada has named these representatives, Temple Presidents may henceforward send recommendation for first and second initiation to whichever of these eleven representatives are nearest their temple. After considering the recommendation, these representatives may accept the devotee as an initiated disciple of Srila Prabhupada by giving a spiritual name, or in the case of second initiation, by chanting on the Gayatri thread, just as Srila Prabhupada has done. The newly initiated devotees are disciples of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupad, the above eleven senior devotees acting as His representative.”
(July 9th, 1977 directive issued to all Temple Presidents and GBCs)
Previously, Srila Prabhupada had initiated devotees by receiving a recommendation from the Temple President via the mail, without any contact with the prospective disciple being necessary. Now even this acceptance was to be done by the ritviks he had delegated for this task. So it is clear that giving initiation does not require the physical presence of the spiritual master, and indeed Srila Prabhupada specifically set up a system shortly before he departed to allow initiation to be granted on his behalf without his physical involvement.
After Initiation
Following initiation, it is accepted that the diksa Guru may also not be physically present:
“Sometimes a diksa-guru is not present always. Therefore one can take learning,
instruction, from an advanced devotee. That is called the siksa-guru.”
(Lecture, 4/7/74)
And of course this has been the case in practise also, since none of Srila Prabhupada’s disciples have had his personal association for the last 28 years, and many of them never met him at all even when Srila Prabhupada was physically present on the planet.
Summary
So both by teaching and practise, we can see that there is no absolute necessity for the diksa Guru to be physically present, either before, during or after initiation.
And this is the mark of an acarya, he teaches by example. Hence there will never be any contradiction between his teaching and example. So he never met the majority of his disciples at any time, and also gave instructions explaining how this was possible, how he could use representatives to take care of all the functions required before, during and after initiation. So even though these points are clear, both via teachings and example, still the myth that the Guru must in all cases be “living” or physically present on the planet in the life of thedisciple is probably the most widely prevalent myth in ISKCON today. We will examine below some of the common misconceptions that have contributed to this myth.
Common Misconceptions
a) “Srila Prabhupada taught many times we need a ..living’ Guru”
Actually the term “living Guru” or “living spiritual master” is never used, not even once by Srila Prabhupada. And indeed the one time it was used by his disciple, Srila Prabhupada reacted strongly, pointing out that the Guru is always living, giving the example of Lord Jesus Christ:
Srila Prabhupada: When you read the Bible, you are following the spiritual master. How can you say “without a spiritual master”? As soon as you read the Bible, that means you are following the instruction of Lord Jesus Christ.
That means you are following the spiritual master. So where is the opportunity of being without the spiritual master?
Madhudvisa: I was referring to a living spiritual master.
Srila Prabhupada: Spiritual master is not the question of… Spiritual master is eternal. Spiritual master is eternal.
(Lecture, Seattle, 2/10/68)
One may argue that though all spiritual personalities are “living” in this sense, still we do not accept Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Maharaja as our diksa Guru. No, because Srila Prabhupada is the current link. And if all personalities are “living” anyway, then to say that Srila Prabhupada is not a “living Guru” obviously cannot be a bona fide reason as to why he is no longer the current representative of the Gaudiya Vaisnava sampradaya. For this we would need an authorised successor, which of couse Srila Prabhupada never gave.
b) “Unless the spiritual master is physically present, how will he be able to chastise us and instruct us?”
As we have seen, this argument is rendered useless by the simple fact that the very persons who are offering this argument, the unauthorised ISKCON Gurus hunting for new disciples, themselves have not had any “living Guru” to chastise or instruct them for the last 28 years. If they have not needed such a physically present Guru for almost 30 years, why do we?
Ironically, the argument that Srila Prabhupada needs to be physically present in order to be able to personally guide us, has already been accepted by the GBC as being false. For they have said that Srila Prabhupada will always be our pre-eminent siksa Guru: “Of course Srila Prabhupada should be given exceptional respect as the Founder-Acarya and preeminent siksa guru of all members of ISKCON.”
So it is already accepted by the GBC that in order to impart instruction and give us the highest siksa, Srila Prabhupada does not need to be physically present on the planet. For Srila Prabhupada is not just any siksa Guru, but the “preeminent” siksa Guru!
c) “Bhagavad-gita 4:34 states we must approach and inquire from the Guru. How can we do that unless he is ..living’?”
Bhagavad-gita 4:34 actually states:
“Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the truth.”
And the purport to this verse, explains that this process is applicable to the DISCIPLE:
“One must be able to pass the test of the spiritual master, and when he sees the genuine desire of the disciple, he automatically blesses the disciple with genuine spiritual understanding. […] A bona fide spiritual master is by nature very kind toward the disciple.”
(Purport, Bhagavad-gita, 4:34)
So as already explained above, pray tell us how Srila Prabhupada’s disciples have been “approaching” and “inquiring” from Srila Prabhupada for the last 28 years, if this verse is speaking only of a physically present spiritual master?
d) “Srila Prabhupada states we must accept the ..Physical’ spiritual master.”
Yes, he does. For he states that we cannot accept only the nonphysical supersoul as the spiritual master, but rather we must also accept the spiritual master who comes out in a physical form. Otherwise there would be no need for any spiritual master to have manifested on the planet in a bodily form:
“Because Krsna is situated in everyone’s heart. Actually, He is the spiritual master, caitya-guru. So in order to help us, He comes out as physical spiritual master.”
(Lecture, 28/5/74)
“Therefore God is called caitya-guru, the spiritual master within the heart. And the physical spiritual master is God’s mercy.”
(Room Conversation, 23/5/74)
And Srila Prabhupada is the current link in that parampara of externally manifested physical spiritual masters whom we must accept; we cannot rely only on the supersoul. However, as we have seen above, the physical spiritual master does not always need to be physically present before the disciple, either before, during or after the initiation.
e) “But if the Guru is on the planet, physical interactive communication with him is at least POSSIBLE.”
Yes it is, but having established that such communication is not necessary, the mere possibility of it cannot be necessary either. It is illogical to argue that though it is not necessary to have interactive communication with the Guru, it is necessary to have the possibility to do that which does not need to be done!
This is very unfortunate to see that how the senior devotees of Srila Prabhupada who have seen and experienced how Srila Prabhupada has set up the system of Initiation in His Iskcon world wide, now they refute and reject the very same Instructions and thus, they are misleading innocent people through their concocted interpretations of the very same Instructions that which they have duly witnessed by following the Instructions during the manifested lila of Srila Prabhupada as to how the Initiation is meant to be conducted for the devotees in Srila Prabhupada’s Iskcon.
The cause for all that deviation is simply seen through the personal motivation of all the Leaders as well as the Senior Devotees of Srila Prabhupada’s Iskcon.
However, fortunately, there are still Srila Prabhupada’s Devotees around the world who are upholding the Instructions and carry forward the mission of Srila Prabhupada as He desires.
Glory to be such devotees of Srila Prabhupada for their selfless preaching work.
Hari BOL.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
b) “Unless the spiritual master is physically present, how will he be able to chastise us and instruct us?”
As we have seen, this argument is rendered useless by the simple fact that the very persons who are offering this argument, the unauthorised ISKCON Gurus hunting for new disciples, themselves have not had any “living Guru” to chastise or instruct them for the last 28 years. If they have not needed such a physically present Guru for almost 30 years, why do we?
This is a good point. Dusyanta kept bringing this up also. What is happening is that people like him have an ULTERIOR motive to keep the bogus CONDITIONED soul gurus going. Dusyanta I hear was in the Financial Department at Bhaktivedanta manor AND now he has a big farm in Wales. And is Bhagavan das chastising him now too ? HYPOCRITES!!!
Just follow the trail of MONEY SCREWING – AND YOU KNOW WHY THEY WANT THE BOGUS GURUS INSTEAD OF SRILA PRABHUPADA:
ISKCON UK ACCOUNTS:
Bhaktivedanta Manor:
http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Accounts/Ends49/0000259649_ac_20111231_e_c.pdf
OVER MILLION POUNDS IN SALARY:
Employees 139
Wages and salaries
Year :2011
£ 1,386332
Trustees:
Anthony William Howchin (aka Titiksu das)
Arun Kumar Bhandari (aka Haridas das)
Astley Valentine Sinclair (aka Anantavijay das)
James Edwards (aka Jai Nitai das)
Pradip Gajjar (Pradyumna das)
Raffhel Grappa (Vishvambhara das)
Terry Michael Anderson (Tarakanatha das)
Paul Murphy (Praghosa das)*****
Niresh Ranj an Dey (Nitaicharan des)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Paul Murphy same***** Director of Bhaktivedanta Manor for Belfast:
Director:
Paul Murphy (Praghosa das)
http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/iskcon-(belfast)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Any charity name you want to find in UK :
http://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/find-charities/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
http://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/search-for-a-charity/?txt=bhaktivedanta
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Any company Director in UK:
http://www.directorsintheuk.co.uk/
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Company Information in UK:
http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Conversation: Vairagya, Salaries,
and Political Etiquette
—
April 28, 1977, Bombay
Prabhupada: Niskincanasya. One who has decided that “This world is useless. I have to take birth repeatedly and accept different types of bodies and suffer.” Body means… Those who have understood this fact and disgusted, so bhakti line is for them. One who has the tendency to enjoy this material world, and they are taking advantage of God, “Give me good wife, give me good work, good meal, good enjoyment,” they are not in the bhakti line. They are in the very nascent stage.
Tamala Krsna: Nescient stage?
Prabhupada: Lower stage. Vairagya-vidya-nija-bhakti-yogam. That… There is one verse written by Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya. What page I don’t… Siksartham. The bhakti-yoga, nija-bhakti-yoga… Bhakti-yoga means devotion to Krsna. And that is vairagya-vidya, how to learn, renounce this world. Otherwise why Caitanya Mahaprabhu gave up His grhastha life? He’s the same person. Why Rupa Gosvami gave up their ministership? By their personal behavior they are showing this is not required. This is vairagya-vidya. So under the circumstances, those who have no vairagya, they cannot live in the temple. They are taking advantage of the temple facilities for their sense enjoyment. Do you understand?
Tamala Krsna: Yes, I do.
Prabhupada: So that should be stopped. So to live with wife, together as a grhastha, and enjoy grhastha life, at the same time to live in temple, this should be discouraged. Temple is meant for brahmacari and sannyasi, our, mainly, not for grhastha, because they have got inclination to enjoy. To live with wife means enjoyment. They’ll have sex. This should be discouraged. But one who is absolutely required, they also cannot be allowed to live together. It is badly done(?). Suppose if one is grhastha, he is in devotional service, but he has no money to look after his wife. In that case the wife can live in the temple but separately with women, not together. Together living is very disturbing. It is not at all recommended. Give this point. At least, this should not be encouraged.
Tamala Krsna: Generally in our temples, within the temple building no grhasthas live together, but in the temple compound, that is to say, around the temple, there may be other buildings. There they live together. But it’s…
Prabhupada: No, I am speaking, within the temple.
Tamala Krsna: I think practically all over the society that has been stopped, the grhastha living together with wife. I don’t think there’s any case like that. But in the adjoining buildings they might be…
Prabhupada: Adjoining buildings… But the temple should not provide them with salary to enjoy their life. That is same thing.
Tamala Krsna: Generally the temples are providing them with apartments, like that.
Prabhupada: But that is temple.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah.
Prabhupada: Just like we have got so many tenants. They are living in their own. But they have no connection with the temple, neither the temple is paying them or… No, they are earning their own way.
Tamala Krsna: In other words, if the temple provides an apartment, it’s the same as paying a salary.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Tamala Krsna: In other words, giving an apartment is the same thing as providing a salary.
Prabhupada: All right, apartment can be… But what is this? They are given high salary. Because his service is essential–“All right, you take apartment.”
Tamala Krsna: But not…
Prabhupada: You take prasadam. But why salary? Where is the question of salary? Where is vairagya, renouncement? So in all circumstances the salary process should be stopped. One who wants salary, he can work outside.
Tamala Krsna: Actually, even if you don’t give a salary, if you give an apartment and you give food and you give all these other things for someone to maintain his household life…
Prabhupada: Because his service is essential.
Tamala Krsna: But that has to be determined very strictly.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Whether his service is absolutely required? So you give him.
Tamala Krsna: That is the factor. That point must be clearly acknowledged.
Prabhupada: Hm hm. So he’s trying to practice… Because sevonmukhe, if he gives service, then gradually he’ll renounce. Sevonmukhe hi jihvadau svayam eva sphuraty adah. God realization means service. The more you give service to the Lord, the more you become advanced in devotional… So one who is giving service, dedicated life, so maybe… But no salary. They may live in the temple, woman separate, man separate.
Tamala Krsna: They’re… But the actual thing is that they’re being, living together in an apartment, and the temple is paying for that apartment. They’re not living separately in the temple. They’re being…
Prabhupada: That is to be discouraged. What do you think?
Giriraja: I agree.
Prabhupada: In Los Angeles it is very freely going on. In the name of Vaisnavism they are drawing salary, living comfortably, having sense enjoyment. This is not good, not at all. So you all high officers, you think over it and do the needful.
Tamala Krsna: Vairagya should be cultivated.
Prabhupada: Vairagya… Caitanya Mahaprabhu says clearly that niskincanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. The bhagavad-bhajana, to become devotee of the Lord, means he’s disgusted with this material world. For him, bhagavad-bhajana. Just like if I become disgusted with something, I require some change, similarly, bhagavad-bhajana is for him who is absolutely disgusted with this material world. And anyone who has got little interest in material enjoyment, he’s not fit for bhagavad-bhajana. He’ll have to accept again this material body, either he becomes Brahma or becomes an ant in the stool, according to his karma. Karmana daiva-netrena jantur deha-upapattaye. He’ll have to develop certain type of body according to his desire of enjoyment. This is nature’s law. Then where is the question of going back to home, back to Godhead? Why so many varieties of life? There is Brahma, and there is ant in the stool. So vairagya-vidya-nija… Vasudeve bhagavati
bhakti-yogah prayojitah, janayaty asu vairagyam. And vairagyam means jnanam ca. When one is in full knowledge that “To remain in this material world is useless for me”–jnanam–“I am simply wasting my time by repetition of birth and death,” then he can have vairagya. “Stop this!” If this sense is not awakened, there is no bhakti. It is not so easy. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati. That is vairagya. So vairagya-vidya… Otherwise why big, big persons, they renounced everything? Bharata Maharaja, young man, the emperor of the whole world, gave up everything. Caitanya Mahaprabhu personally teaches, young man, good, beautiful wife, young wife, so affectionate mother, so much honor in the society, Nimai Pandita, so beautiful body… Tyaktva sudustyaja-surepsita-rajya-laksmim. Surepsita. Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s position was, even the demigods, they desired such family life. But He still gave up. That is teaching. Therefore Sarvabhauma
Bhattacarya says, vairagya-vidya-nija-bhak…, siksartham: “to teach others.” He understood that in order to teach others vairagya-vidya… He is the Supreme Person. Vairagya-vidya-nija-bhakti-yoga-siksartham ekah purana-purusah: “That He was, Supreme Lord. Now He has appeared as Sri Krsna Caitanya.”Sarira-dhari: “He has accepted one body as Sri Krsna Caitanya.” So these things should be stopped, that they should live comfortably with husband and wife, children, and take salary from the… You decide. This is not to our… Besides that, in our BBT it is clearly written that “Fifty percent for printing book, and fifty percent for…” So you cannot violate this. Those who can give voluntary service, “Welcome.” Otherwise we don’t require. At least they should not be given any salary. That is very bad. This is against principle.
Tamala Krsna: I was reading the life sketch of Bhaktivinoda Thakura. He always maintained a government service job, and still…
Prabhupada: He gave so much service to Krsna. From his family maintenance… He could have renounced, but he said that the family has to be maintained. So he… Markata-vairagya. Bhaktivinoda Thakura was against giving sannyasa. He didn’t like these babajis. They were markata-vairagya, superficially… Markata-vairagya means monkey. They live naked, eat fruits, live in the jungle. That is vairagya. But three dozen wives. Markata-vairagya. Markata means monkey. Superficially vairagya, naga-baba. They eat vegetables, fruits, live in the jungle, no house, or, all, everything like vairagya. But sex. We have… I have seen in Vrndavana. They have got a party, each monkey, women’s party, and the male will come to any female, “Now ready,” “Enter.” You can see it. Markata-vairagya nahi paraloka dasaya(?).So this should not be encouraged. Then gradually it will deteriorate into…
Tamala Krsna: The Christians had that happen to them.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Tamala Krsna: The Christian religion had that deterioration. Everything deteriorated more and more into sense gratification.
Prabhupada: Because they have no valid philosophy. It is simply official. They have nothing, no knowledge, no nothing, simply that dress and cloth. That’s all.
Tamala Krsna: Just like the original… When Jesus was there and he had twelve disciples, they simply gave up everything and traveled with him and tried to preach. So they were renunciates, living simply whatever they could take, nothing more, and devoting their lives to God. But the followers later on, more and more they added the degree of sense gratification, till now you can’t see any renunciation at all within their order.
Prabhupada: No, they are drinking. They are having homosex. They are encouraging homosex, giving man-to-man marriage. You know that? This is going on. Doing everything nonsense.
Giriraja: Actually their leader…
Prabhupada: And they are concluding that they cannot stop committing sins and Jesus Christ will take account for them. Therefore it is very good religion, that “We can do whatever nonsense we like, and if we keep our faith in Jesus Christ, then we are saved.” Papa-buddhih, namno balad papa-buddhih. Great offenders. So what news?
Giriraja: Well, the reason I came up is I’m going to try to phone Mr. Rajda now.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Giriraja: Going to try to phone Mr. Rajda. And considering that the Prime Minister may not have that much time… We had discussed that he should come here to meet you, but suppose if we fix up, say, a minimum time if he can’t come here, say at least a half hour undisturbed, something like that, is it possible to fix in the city or we should just insist that…
Prabhupada: Hm?
Tamala Krsna: He’s suggesting that if the Prime Minister can’t give that much time, whether you would go to see him? Actually, if you give the idea that Prabhupada wants to see him in the morning hours…
Giriraja: Yeah, I’m going to.
Tamala Krsna: I mean, if he says that that’s not possible…
Prabhupada: That is not respectful.
Giriraja: No.
Tamala Krsna: Not at all respectful.
Prabhupada: Then he does not know how to honor a saintly person. It is useless to meet him. If he has no respect for saintly person, if he thinks greater than saintly person, then he’s useless.
Tamala Krsna: Then nothing will come of it, anyway. And if we give this opportunity, that he come in the morning, if he…
Prabhupada: No, no, apart from that, if he has got that sense, that “I am very big man, so everyone should come here,” he’s useless. We cannot do anything with him.
Giriraja: That’s what I thought.
Prabhupada: Very beginning is…
Giriraja: On the wrong foot.
Tamala Krsna: No, he has to come to see you, Srila Prabhupada. Oh, there’s so many examples in the sastra of great personalities.
Prabhupada: Even Caitanya Mahaprabhu refused to see, what to speak of going there.
Giriraja: I agree with you.
Prabhupada: Even big, big kings, Akbar, Mansingh, they used to, used to come to Rupa Gosvami.
Giriraja: No, I agree with you completely.
Prabhupada: Did… He demanded like that?
Giriraja: No. When I spoke to Mr. Rajda I said that the Prime Minister should come here, and Mr. Rajda agreed. But just now, when I… I just spoke to Gopala. I was on my way to make the call. So he said that I should just ask you about this.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Giriraja: I was just going to phone, and I mentioned to Gopala Krsna Prabhu that I was going to make this call. So I said that, you know, the Prime Minister was going to be coming here, so he… And I said that I also, in the call I wanted to make that very clear so there was no mistake. And he said that, well, he might be too busy to come here and that he…
Prabhupada: Gopala said.
Giriraja: Yeah. So I thought it would be better just to…
Prabhupada: No, there is no question of.
Giriraja: Yeah. No, I agree completely. I mean, you’re millions and billions of times greater than anyone, so there’s no question…
Prabhupada: No, apart from that, if one has no proper respect for a saintly person, he’s useless man. You cannot have any benefit. Or neither he can derive any benefit.
Giriraja: Yeah.
Tamala Krsna: From all sides.
Giriraja: Because he’ll think he has nothing to learn, that he is already in the best position.
Prabhupada: And we don’t require any from, anything from them, but for the whole human society’s welfare we can suggest him, “Do like this.” That is our… But we don’t require anything from them.
Giriraja: I know that. This is your…
Prabhupada: Of course, sometimes we are in difficulty. We ask them something.
Tamala Krsna: But that’s their duty, anyway. Ksatriyas should provide protection for the saintly person.
Giriraja: Anyway, our real protector is Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Giriraja: He has… Because we’ve seen so many difficulties. Nobody could see any solution, but…
Prabhupada: That one Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s devotee was ordered to be hanged.
Giriraja: I didn’t know that.
Prabhupada: Gopinatha Pattanayaka.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah.
Prabhupada: All the devotees approached Caitanya Mahaprabhu, thinking that “He must… The king will excuse him.” He never agreed. “Oh, I cannot do that. If he has done something wrong, then let him…” Of course, he was saved and protected by Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s good wish, but He never agreed. These are some of the examples that… Simply depend on Krsna. But if they are actually respectful, we can ask them. There is… But if it is difficult job… Visayinam sandarsanam atha yosit… We cannot keep so strictly, but these are the principles taught by Caitanya Mahaprabhu.
Giriraja: So that principle about living together and salary…
Prabhupada: That is…
Giriraja: That is meant to apply everywhere in the society.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. This is exploitation of the society.
Giriraja: I know. Since I’ve been preaching more, I’ve been able to see how much labor and endeavor is going in just to maintain so many idle people. I know you’ve been saying this for a long time, and now, you know, I feel the strength to actually change that, that only those who are really sincere workers can stay.
Prabhupada: Otherwise no need. We need their service, but not by being salaried. That is not good. (end)
JSD 6.5 Slaughterhouse Civilization
Srila Prabhupada: No, they are not brahmanas. Those who give education in exchange for money–they are not brahmanas. For instance, we are lecturing, educating people. We don’t say, “Give us a salary.” We simply ask them, “Please come.” That is why we are cooking food and holding so many free festivals. “We’ll give you food. We’ll give you a comfortable seat. Please come and hear about self-realization and God consciousness.” We are not asking money–“First of all pay the fee; then you can come and learn Bhagavad-gita.” We never say that. But these so-called teachers who first of all bargain for a salary–“What salary will you give me?”–that is a dog’s concern. That is not a brahmana’s concern. A brahmana will never ask about a salary. A brahmana is eager to see that people are educated. “Take free education and be educated; be a human being”–this is a brahmana’s concern: You see? I came here not to ask for any money but to give instruction.
75-01-12. Letter: Kirtiraja
Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated Dec. 31, 1974 and have noted the contents. Any householder devotee who is working full-time (with his wife) as a sankirtana book distributer, of temple managerial duties, artist, cook, etc. shall be provided food, shelter, and other bare minimum necessities by the temple itself. They should not cook their own meals separate from the temple meals. If they have children, then some minimal allowance may be given according to the number of children. If they want anything extra or over and above what the temple president sees as absolute necessity, then they should work outside–the temple cannot pay for anything beyond the bare necessities. And definitely, the BBT cannot pay any salary to anybody. Our philosophy is “simple living and high thinking”–not sense gratification. The temple presidents and leaders (elder students) must show this by example. Temple or asrama means for
renunciation and renounced persons. If one is engaged in self-realization process, then his material necessities become almost nil. Persons who do not like this can work outside.
75-07-16.Par Letter: Paramahamsa:
Regarding the restaurant, why they should get salary? There should be no salary. You are working without salary, so why they should take. They are not very important men. So after this month arrange for no one to get any salary there. That will be nice.