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Monday, April 25, 2011 at 10:22am — According to the GBC in a “Statement” on February 28, 2011 Re: the case of Umapati Dasa, “ISKCON will not recognize initiations given by Umapati Dasa after February 2010.
Devotees initiated prior to this date are accepted as duly initiated… members of ISKCON.” So if an Iskcon guru is in a position of being completely removed from the post of guru, the GBC now considers that the initiations that he gave while in good standing are empowered by the GBC to make one a “duly initiated members of ISKCON.” If this is not a form of Rtvik then I don’t know what is?
During Srila Prabhupada’s manifest lila a “member of Iskcon” was someone who was his active disciple or an active aspiring disciple (not yet initiated). By active I mean one who is attempting to follow the regulative principles, attempting to chant their rounds and attempting to perform devotional service.
So at that time the essential factor in being one of the “members” of Iskcon was discipleship in relation to the Acarya, guru and divine person, Srila Prabhupada. Now according to the GBC, membership status in Iskcon is completely separate from discipleship in relation to a person who is an initiating guru; Rather the key element has become discipleship in relation to Iskcon which is governed by the GBC.
I have said for years that Iskcon has actually become “Soft Rtvik”, but now it appears to be moving at least to the position of “Medium Rtvik.” I would define the Rtvik Movement as Hard Rtvik.
Yet considering the GBC’s Statement Re: Umapati Dasa I am wondering about what is the real difference between the now Medium Rtvik stance of the GBC and the Hard Rtvik position of the Rtvik Movement?
Well, here you go. The GBC is essentially saying that an Iskcon guru in good standing or deceased is a “regular guru” whereas a guru who is deemed officially fallen was retroactively a defacto Rtvik priest.
But unto whom was disciple being linked to by the retroactive defacto Rtvik Priest? Was it the GBC? But the collect GBC body is not a guru? In its ideal state the GBC would represent Srila Prabhupada and in its ideal state the Society (Iskcon) would be Srila Prabhupada’s body.
Therefore the only logical conclusion is that the officially fallen guru (deemed so by the GBC) was retroactively a Rtvik for Srila Prabhupada, ACCORDING TO THE GBC. So it is obvious that the GBC is moving for better or worse to some kind of Rtvik conclusion. So why are Iskcon loyalists like Yuga Avatar so hostile to the ideas put forth by persons such as Satvatas Dasa?
The Iskcon loyalists accept the GBC not only as the supreme managing authority in Iskcon but as some kind of collective manifestation of Srila Prabhupada. So if the GBC goes completely Rtvik they will follow. So the Rtvik idea is no longer the cause of the conflict, but rather the apparent fact that the GBC does not presently accept the Hard Rtivk position.
The GBC may be coming closer and closer to a true Rtvik position but at present there is what amounts to a two tier, absurd system where Iskcon gurus in good standing are “regular gurus” accepting guru puja etc, and officially fallen gurus are defacto retroactive Rtviks.
If the members of Iskcon are not too dumbed down there is always the chance that they will see how the GBC’s position is drifting towards true Rtvik for Iskcon. I wouldn’t hold my breath.
Regardless of what their official position may be; it is simply the GuruPoisonerClub’s convenient catch of the day. They twist any ideas that suit their schemes, truthfulness and Srila Prabhupada’s directions need not enter their picture at all. There must be so much reform from top to bottom, these precocious Jesus’s will never give up the worship and money they crave so much. They have done this for decades; twist the truth of the day to whatever suits the need. It is a con and a trick, and no one should take the latest batch of lies seriously. They have craved everything offensive so much, that they happily killed the guru, or supported the murderers, while propping up his dead body in the vyasasana to parade for their sycophants, just sick deranged CIA/NWO steered cultists.
I am very dubious that it is possible for there to be any reform , period. Their plan from the very start was thievery. It has been thiry five years, and they are just getting sicker and more disgusting in their behaviors and offenses to Srila Prabhupada, it is just unforgiveable now. Why so much time spent in botheration over these akarmis? Better to forget them, and concentrate on the positive alternatives, the new seekers, and stop wasting our time with these deviant murdering goonda fools.
Most are too far gone to hell to turn back now in their old age. They would have to admit they are not God after all. What have they done to bring justice to the murderers who dominate their stinking Mordorian ranks? ; zero plus. True devotees of Srila Prabhupada had best run from that sinking ship before they get sucked down to Krmi-bhojana with them.
pamho agtACBSP
the ritvik system is the desire of our beloved acharya. What can be done, we just keep on chanting and wait for truthfulness to take place within the cooperation of the gbc and ritviks together to show to SRI SRI GURU GAURANGA that we really love HDG ACBSP. That’s the lost Iskcon for the moment, to spread the brhat mrdanga and cooperate all together that’s the proof if all of us really love Srila Prabhupada.
ys
seva das haribol
PAMHO,AGTSP,
You got it prabhu, when all the devotees wake up, they will just cooperate together for Shrila Prabhupada to show their real love for Guru and Gauranga!!!!!
Iskcon is like a light pole: for some it serves to illuminate and for drunkers to support. One thing is authorized guru and another quite different self-realized guru. The self-realized guru gives you Krishna prema for nothing in change and the authorized guru take away every thing for nothing in change.
In the beginning the Mahabharata says: “This history is repeated always in human society.” Similarly as in the Mahabharata, when our Pandu, our conqueror of the world, our beloved Srila Prabhupada, when he planted the seed, all of his disciples were very young, inexpert although sincere disciples of him and too worried about their spiritual advance and by that the management of the institution was not for them some thing of too much importance. This was the moment for opportunists, cheaters and rascals to divide the devotees displace all directives elected democratically and took the control of ISKCON. Converting the Srila Prabhupada´s temple of love and mercy in a masquerade for the lust and greed of a few, where the people are nothing more than animals without right of opinion. Some thing not accepted by the law of any country.
The document of July 9/77 about Ritvik system was a policy of Srila Prabhupada because of the lack of qualifies devotees to assume the position of spiritual masters, even today is difficult to find a devotee able to assume such position. Ritvik system in ISKCON today is worst the medicine than the sickness; or another chapter for atrocities on behalf of Srila Prabhupada. There will be not ritvik-acharyas but ritvik-cheaters: “On behalf of gangsters.” Ritvik system will not legalize the book changes; the changes to the date of Ekadasi, the elimination of the meaning of Bhima Ekadasi, the elimination of the book Archana Paddati or all daily changes. In ISKCON today nobody can be a leader if he is not a cheater of profession. If someone is a devotee of good standard in ISKCON then he is considered a fool, or a dissident, or the public enemy number one and the object of all kind of attacks. The ISKCON so called “gurus” will not renounce to their greed for kanaka, mohini and pratista. They are the worst enemies of the mankind and they don’t know anything about philosophy, 4 principles, 16 rounds, harinam, sankirtan or bhakti.
The ISKCON of today is divided in three parties; ISKCON-GBC, ISKCON-Ritvik-system and the third party ISKCON-Prabhupada-parampara, as I decided to call it, where a sincere devotee brahmana adopts the position of spiritual master following the prescriptions of the scriptures and opens a temple of ISKCON and where the GBC doesn’t have any authority on it legally accordingly with the DOM (Direction Of Management). Basically a temple of ISKCON is a place where the standard of Srila Prabhupada is established.
Srila Prabhupada talks about the necessity of diksa gurus or brahmanas, spiritual masters of the society:
“If one becomes a guru, he is automatically a brahmana. Sometimes a caste guru says that ye krsna-tattva-vettā, sei guru haya means that one who is not a brahmana may become a siksa-guru or a vartma-pradarśaka-guru but not an initiator guru. According to such caste gurus, birth and family ties are considered foremost. However, the hereditary consideration is not acceptable to Vaisnavas. The word guru is equally applicable to the vartma-pradarśaka-guru, siksa-guru and diksa-guru. Unless we accept the principle enunciated by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, this Krsna consciousness movement cannot spread all over the world. According to Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s intentions: pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi-grāma sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s cult must be preached all over the world. This does not mean that people should take to His teachings and remain śūdras or candalas. As soon as one is trained as a pure Vaisnava, he must be accepted as a bona fide brahmana. This is the essence of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s instructions in this verse.” C.C. Madia 8-128:
When Srila Rupa Goswamy says:
“A sober person who can tolerate the urge to speak, the mind’s demands, the actions of anger and the urges of the tongue, belly and genitals is qualified to make disciples all over the world.” (NoI. 1)
Every body can become disciple of such a person. He is not talking about a paramahamsa of the top most perfection. He is talking just about a person who is conversant in the science of Krishna consciousness. And as a follower of Krishna he has control over his senses too. He is not interested about to loose the merit of his pious acts by giving sense gratification to a representative body different from his spiritual self. He understands that mundane happiness is nothing more than a shadow of sundara-ananda the beautiful reality. He is not worried for the material “happiness” of the senses; because it is just a concept invented by the mind, or a psychological self suggestion in the mind:
“The Blessed Lord said: O Partha, when a man gives up all varieties of sense desire which arise from mental concoction, and when his mind finds satisfaction in the self alone, then he is said to be in pure transcendental consciousness. (Bg 2.55)
Srila Prabhupada says that diksa is just a formality:
“Interviewer: What is the procedure of the movement? Do you initiate yourself all the disciples or do your other disciples also do that?
Prabhupada: Well, initiation or no initiation, first thing is knowledge. (break) …knowledge. Initiation is formality. Just like you go to a school for knowledge, and admission is formality. That is not very important thing.” 761016iv.cha Conversations:
“Our Sanātana Gosvāmī gives direction in the Hari-bhakti-vilāsa that one man can become a brahmana by the regular process of diksa. Diksa, this initiation, cannot be offered to a śūdra. Diksa cannot be offered to a śūdra. But in this age, Kali-yuga, it is the statement of the śāstras that in the Kali-yuga most of the population are śūdras. Kalau śūdrā sambhavah. How they can be initiated? This initiation is offered not according to the Vedic rules, because it is very difficult to find out a qualified brahmana. Diksa is offered to a qualified brahmana. Therefore this diksa is offered according to Pāñcarātriki-vidhi. That is recommended in this age. My spiritual master inaugurated this Pāñcarātriki-vidhi, and we are following his footsteps. Anyone who is inclined to devote his life for Krsna, he should be accepted as Brahman.” (Bhagavad-gītā 7.3 Bombay, March 29, 1971)
Panchama means the fifth class of men and pancharatrika-guru-parampara is the disciplic succession consisting of diksa-gurus (brahmanas) who may or may not be self-realized souls, so unless one gets siksa by a maha-bhagavata devotee, he has not received diksa in the real sense. Srila Prabhupada confirms this:
“Therefore, in the beginning, everyone should strictly follow the regulative principles of devotional service, according to the injunctions of the scriptures and the spiritual master. Only after the stage of liberation from material contamination can one actually aspire to follow in the footsteps of the devotees in Vrindavana…But when he realizes his actual position in relationship with the Lord, he can, along with the discharging of regulative service, think within himself of the Lord, under the guidance of a particular associate of the Lord, and develop his transcendental sentiments in following that associate.” (NoD 16)
Therefore in our Bhagavata-Dharma, the person who can give us the prayojana of Krsna-bhakti is the real guru. If the siksa-guru is giving this whereas the diksa-guru is not, then the siksa-guru is in Mahabhagavata-siksa-parampara and he should be given preference to him. He is more authentic and he should be honoured more. Mahabhagavata-Siksa-Parampara is considered more important than Pancharatrika-Diksa-Parampara, because it follows the transmission of the truth revealed by its most significant representatives, which is completely opposite to following any priestly hierarchy strictly.
Srila Gaura Kisora Dasa Babaji gave more importance to his siksa guru Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur than to his diksa guru Bhagavan dasa Babaji of Vrndavan. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta said: “My father and spiritual master Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur.” His siksa-guru. Srila Prabhupada is the acharya (initiator spiritual master) and siksa-guru for every body in ISKCON with out any doubt . Srila Prabhupada Ki Jay!
Dandavats.
Gaurasundara Das (Caracas)
Gaurasundara Das (Caracas), amongst lots of other nonsensical things says:
However Srila Prabhupada says:
PAMHO agtACBSP
Hare Krsna Prabhus
SRILA PRABHUPADA told his disciple HG Nararatna prabhu that whoever reads his books is already initiated.
In this kali-yuga age SRILA PRABHUPADA has done his Sankirtan transcendental brhat mrdanga revolution through his books and he still keeps on doing it because by reading SRILA PRABHUPADA books people become devotees, receive divya-jnana.
It is not coming so easy by HG Sriman Haridas(George Harrison) but by the cooperation of the GBC and the ritvik system it will be more easy. Especially after war, Prabhupada said preaching will be very nice. And the devotees to stay together when kali yuga gets more advanced.
agtys ys seva das haribol
Hare Krishna July 9th:
I hope you enjoy all my nonsenses.
Song Name: Krsna Hoite Caturmukha
Official Name: Sri Guru Parampara
Author: Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswti
(8) Bhaktivinoda Thakura’s intimate friend and associate was the eminent maha-bhagavata Sri Gaurakisora Dasa Babaji, whose sole joy was found in hari-bhajana.
@ Gaurasundara Das (Caracas)
Here is a version with synonyms;
SYNONYMS
viśvanātha-bhakta-sātha–Viśvanātha Cakravartī, along with the assembled devotees; baladeva–Śrī Baladeva Vidyābhūṣaṇa; jagannātha–then Jagannātha dāsa Bābājī; tāra priya–his dear student; śrī-bhaktivinoda–Śrī Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura; mahā-bhāgavata-bara–the topmost among great devotees; srī-gaurakiśora-bara–the eminent Śrī Gaurakiśora dāsa Bābājī; hari-bhajanete–in unalloyed worship of Lord Hari; jā’ra moda–whose sole joy was found.
Translation:
As you can see the translation has information not found in the synonyms. It is probably translated by Acyutānanda Svāmī, since it is his compilation.
The quote below from the 1975 CC has a different proclamation.
Of course Jagannātha dāsa Bābājī, can be considered both initiating and
“beloved śikṣā-guru of Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura”.
Hare Krishna Prabhuji.
AGTSP, PAMHO.
In the book:
“AN ERA NOT TO BE FORGOTTEN”
“Srila Gaurakisora Still Lives in Our Hearts”
iIs said in the chapter:
The External and Internal Identity of Srila Gaurakisora
Srila Gaurakisora dasa Babaji appeared almost one hundred years ago in the district of Pharidapura next to the place called Tepakhola in the village of Vagyana. In that village, which is situated on the shore of the Padma River, he was born as the son of a Vaisya named Vamsi das. During his boyhood his mother and father arranged his marriage and he remained in household life for almost twenty-nine years, working as a grain broker.
After the death of his wife, he left his business and approached Srila Bhagavat dasa Babaji, requesting from him the traditional paramahamsa Vaisnava Babaji dress. After accepting Babaji initiation from Srila Bhagavat dasa Babaji, who was a disciple of Srila Jagannatha dasa Babaji, Srila Gaurakisora travelled from village to village in Vrndavana, continually performing his worship to Lord Krsna for approximately thirty years. During this time he would sometimes travel to the holy places of pilgrimage in northern and western India. He associated with Sri Svarupa dasa Babaji in Jagannatha Puri, Srila Bhagavan dasa Babaji in Kalina, and Sri Caitanya dasa Babaji in Kuliya. Srila Gaurakisora dasa Babaji became famous among the great devotees of Vrndavana and was given the appropriate name bhajananandi. Even though Srila Gaurakisora received such exalted honour, he never secretly endeavoured for even a drop of material sense gratification. He was totally indifferent to material enjoyment. Self-satisfied and alone, he performed his pure, unalloyed devotional pastimes in a deep devotional mood.
In the year 1897, during the month of Phalguna (March), when the Yoga Pith (the exact birth-place of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu) in Sri Mayapura Dh€ma was revealed, Srila Gaurakisora came to Sri Navadwipa Dh€ma from Vrndavana. From this time until his disappearance, Srila Gaurakisora lived in different villages in the area of Sri Navadwipa Dh€ma, realising them as nondifferent from Vrndavana. He begged dry foodstuffs from the householders of the holy Dh€ma,. sometimes offering the food in his hand to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. To cook, he would often collect dry wood from the paths and he would wash used earthen pots that people had discarded along the roadside near the River Ganga. To clothe himself, he would go to the shore of the Ganga and collect and wash discarded cloth that had been used to cover corpses in the burning ghats. In this way, always remaining independent from the support of others, he fulfilled his practical necessities by using items that had no value for anyone.
Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura would often cite the behaviour of Srila Gaurakisora dasa Babaji to explain the meaning of nirapeksa, “indifference.” He often discussed the unequalled renunciation, pure devotion, and attachment to Krsna that Babaji Maharaja displayed. Babaji Maharaja frequently visited Svananda Kunja, a place within Godrumadwipa (one of the nine islands of Navadwipa), where Bhaktivinode Thakura spent his last days in retirement. Srila Gaurakisora would come to hear Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura discourse on Srimad Bhagavatam and other topics concerning the intimate conclusions of devotional service. Babaji Maharaja would display fervent enthusiasm upon hearing these discourses.