ISKCON Gurus / Rtvik – Part Two
Posted by Prabhupadavision.com
May 15 2011 — Dear Krsnacandra prabhu.
Thank you for your reply. I cannot explain myself as well as you can prabhu and your arguments are very persuasive but you seem to miss the point. Please prabhu I do not mean to be rude but unless you are on the same spiritual platform as my Gurudev you cannot possibly understand who is pure and who is not pure.
You are right no one told me anything about the history of the movement and I don’t want to know either. What is past is past and while some devotees have remained in ISKCON and have wasted their time in criticising other devotees, other devotees have gone on to perfect their spiritual lives.
You gave three types of guru in your reply the rubber stamped one, the ritvik and the pure devotee. The rubberstamped one is wrong, this I agree. The ritvik guru worries me a little. Gurudev even though he was rubber stamped as you say he belongs to the last category, the category of the pure devotee and he is only one of the many good choices or appointments that the GBC have made. You will not see my Gurudev attending any of the classes for training gurus.
The ritvik appointments are a worry to me. How will they be chosen and what will stop them from acting like the bogus gurus you are talking about? I am sure that unless they themselves are pure they will want to be worshipped and they will end up getting worshipped. Of course many have tried to give shelter to others but due to sensual weakness they have fallen but at least they are trying to serve Prabhupada.
The problem with devotees who hold similar opinions to yours will mean we end up with more ISKCON Bangalore’s types who start their own ISKCONs. How many ISKCON’s will there be in the future? Please ask yourself which is better, thousands of pure devotees who are aiding Prabhupada’s ISKCON by increasing their disciples and building more temples or more ritvik ISKCON’s like ISKCON Bangalore?
My Guru Maharaja has spoken many times on the ritvik system and he has admitted that Prabhupada did establish this system while he was present. He has made it clear to us that Prabhupada would never allow the Bangalore Temple headed by Madhupandit prabhu if he was present. He said Prabhupada would never agree to a program of setting up a separate GBC with ritvik gurus and Temples separate from his ISKCON society.
Krsnacandra prabhu while I am writing to you like this please do not feel that I am angry with you or desire to offend you, I understand that Prabhupada has many great souls who are in his ISKCON society and sometimes they fight like Prabhupada would fight with some of his Godbrothers.
But I have to tell you that you are wrong when you say that devotees like my Gurudev are bogus. I am sorry that I do not explain myself very elegantly but I feel strongly that I must defend my Guru Maharaja as best I can.
To me he is a pure devotee and is trying his very best to serve Prabhupada and Lord Krishna and that is why we all are so attached to his lotus feet. I am sure that if you were able to spend time and listen to him you would change your mind.
Please forgive any offenses that I may have caused in my writing.
All glories to Guru and Gauranga! All glories to my Guru Maharaja.
Tulasi devi dasi
Hare Krsna.
I just love reading these articles by Tulasi devi dasi.I hope there are more to come.
In Nectar of Instruction Text 5 Srila Prabhupada writes and instructs us all thus,
“In this verse Srila Rupa Goswami advises the devotees to be intelligent enough to distinguish between the kanistha-adhikari,madhyama adhikari and uttama-adhikari……”and a whole lot more in a common thread.
Srila Prabhupada did not say we have to be on the same or equal spiritual platform to identify who is pure and who is not pure,simply Srila Rupa Goswami instructs to be “intelligent enough” to distinguish between the 3 different platforms of devotees.
I dont think i will follow Tulasi devi dasi’s advise that what has happened in Iskcon in the past is consigned to the past and there it will remain, as we have seen that the past not only repeats itself but in Iskcon the past has not gone away.Similarly it does not behoove a devotee of any stature to be naive in this way and in such a colossal amount.
Certainly criticism is a powerful tool to destroy spiritual life i agree wholeheartedly but calling a thief a thief is not criticism and we have seen many pseudo-devotees dressed in the guise of Vaisnavas in Iskcon.Lets not be naive on that one as well Tulasi devi dasi.
There is no such thing as a “Ritvik Guru” you must have misunderstood this concept or you have just made this terminology up.Please show us where you got this idea from.
Yes all the devotees in Iskcon that follow Srila Prabhupada in a disciplined way are pure devotees,but your mistake in understanding who is Guru is that He is descending from the Spiritual World,not the same as following Srila Prabhupada’s instructions to become pure.Guru is always pure eternally and comes in Disciplic Succession who is authorised by the predesessor Spiritual Master .So whom did Srila Prabhupada authorise to be Guru in Disciplic Succession after His disappearance?
If the ritviks are a worry to you about being chosen then how comes you are not worried about your “Guru Maharaja” being authorised?
I am not sure that the ritviks will want to be worshipped.Itotally dont agree with you one bit.If they have fallen due to sensual weakness sounds like you do know the Iskcon past,history repeating itself agin and again.
Are you joking?of course Srila Prabhupada would not allow the situation to carry on in Bangalore as it is today because He would be the Spiritual Master incharge of Bangalore just as He was the Spiritual master in charge of ALL the Temples in the world when He was present.Of course it would be different if Srila Prabhupada was physically present thats obvious and thats why its important to know the history of iskcon “Gbc/Gurus” to understand how we got to this ridiculous mess today,why there is so much dis-unity,disaster,dis-iskcon,thats what needs rectifying in Iskcon so that we are all under the same leadership of Iskcon’s founder and Acharya.
The conducting of Initiations and initiation ceremonies are of secondary importance,the Gbc have Institutionalised initiation so much now its become a material consideration.Spiritual life is what is missing in iskcon because we dont follow Srila Prabhupada any more in iskcon just a whole bunch of ridiculous resolutions and sensual sannyasis.Just try to understand the difference between Religion and Spiritual life then you will begin to appreciate the difference between Srila Prabhupada and what passes as “Gurus” nowadays in iskcon,they are gulfs apart.
If your Guru maharaja is not bogus then why do you relativise him by saying he is pure according to your reckoning-thats just a subjective understanding of one devotee by one devotee.
Srila Prabhupada is Jagat Guru for us all.He is the whole universes Spiritual master.
If you can say that about your Gurumaharaja then tell me who he is so i can associate with him.But dont remain and act like a mouse about who he is,declare it bodly if you know the Truth.Share it with us all.The onus is on you to publicly instruct us all who your Guru Maharaja is if indeed he is a pure devotee like Srila Prabhupada and he truly has succeeded in Disciplic Succession and is now number 33.
looking forward to your revelation,your servant Dusyanta dasa.
Hare Krishna devotees.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Please accept my humble obeisances.
Srila Prabhupada established the ritvik system of initiations for the men in power of money, people and properties, for the GBCs (Guilty Boys Club.) But when Srila Prabhupad addresses to the mass of devotees in general his preaches:
“And to become acarya is not very difficult. First of all, to become very faithful servant of your acarya, follow strictly what he says. Try to please him and spread Krsna consciousness. That’s all. It is not at all difficult. Try to follow the instruction of your Guru Maharaja and spread Krsna consciousness. That is the order of Lord Caitanya….” 750406CC.MAY Lectures.
The problem of ritvik system is that many people get diksa to say: “Oh please, take my garbage, thanks and good bye.” Or if not where are the thousands of disciples of Srila Prabhupada? And where are the thousands of devotees since 1978? This is not what we have to offer to the acharya. Not disciples of diksa; but disciples to the siksa of Srila Prabhupada. This is real service. If not it is irresponsible. To give diksa on behalf of Srila Prabhupada means that the celebrant is not at the level of NOI 1.
“Divya-jñan hrde prokasito prema-bhakti jaha hoite” More than divya jñana, Srila Prabhupada is giving us Krishna prema. This Krsna prema descends from Sri Krishna through siksa, not by diksa. Divya jñana is the medium but not the objective; because knowledge many times falls at the level of Brahman, mental speculation or theory.
Krsna-prema is the real initiation:
“In the association of pure devotees, discussion of the pastimes and activities of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is very pleasing and satisfying to the ear and the heart. By cultivating such knowledge one gradually becomes advanced on the path of liberation, and thereafter he is freed, and his attraction becomes fixed. Then real devotion and devotional service begin.” SB 3.25.25
Krsna-prema is self-realization:
“One who is engaged in devotional service has not the least fear in material existence. This is because the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the Supersoul and friend of everyone. One who knows this secret is actually educated, and one thus educated can become the spiritual master of the world. One who is an actually bona fide spiritual master, representative of Krsna, is not different from Krsna.” SB 4.29.51
And empowered by the mantra:
“The fundamental religious system in the age of Kali is the chanting of the holy name of Krsna. Unless empowered by Krsna, one cannot propagate the sankirtana movement.” Antya 7.11
Then:
“Instruct everyone to follow the orders of Lord Sri Krsna as they are given in the Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam. In this way become a spiritual master and try to liberate everyone in this land.” Madhya 7.128
What’s the use to go to the spiritual world to enjoy; let’s stay here preaching!
dasanudas.
Tulsi dd. writes, ” My Guru Maharaja has spoken many times on the ritvik system and he has admitted that Prabhupada did establish this system while he was present. He has made it clear to us that Prabhupada would never allow the Bangalore Temple headed by Madhupandit prabhu if he was present. He said Prabhupada would never agree to a program of setting up a separate GBC with ritvik gurus and Temples separate from his ISKCON society.”
My question to Tulsi dd. is that how her guru maharaja did make it clear to his disciples that Srila Prabhupada would never allow the Bangalore Temple headed by Madhupandi prabhu. and so on ? This is totally a concoction as it appears from her writing. Who is this guru she is talking about ? Is he as good as Srila Prabhupada ? I mean what is this ………. Wake up, folks. The same goes for DASANUDAS. It is very easy to quote from the scripture to make ones’ point only if one is qualified. Otherwise what is the use of misguiding sincere and innocent people like Tulsi dd.. For example a Postman selflessly deliver the letter to where it belongs, does it mean the postman has become Post Master ? NO. The postmaster is simply the servant who is executing and rendering his or her duties selflessly. The question Tulsi dd. needs to ask her guru whoever he is that is he a selflessly rendering services to Srila Prabhupada ? If yes, then why he became guru himself ? Did Srila Prabhupada authorize any one of his disciple as his Successor ? These are the questions Tulsi dd. needs to ask and inquire before accepting a bona fide representative in the disciplic succession . Hope it helps to the readers. Hari BOL…. AGTSP.