httpv://youtu.be/ImAvaS2kIGg
BY: RUPANUGA DAS
Jan 20, 2012 — JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA, USA (SUN) — Those sincere souls who have been submitting for decades to disciples of Srila Prabhupada as spiritual masters, only to be disappointed, need not leave the proven path of Bhakti as revealed by Srila Prabhupada (who is not at all at fault).
Because of such disappointments, one may have doubts about success in Krishna consciousness. But the path is not to be abandoned. Instead, under the complete shelter of Srila Prabhupada one will be saved for sure from material existence.
There is no need to get initiated again and again. One can take complete shelter of Srila Prabhupada and the Holy Name, Nama Prabhu. Nama Rupe is independent, as confirmed in Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya lila, Chapter 15, verses 106 through 111 with purports, a must read carefully.
These verses and purports clearly indicate that a sincere soul, initiated or not, can take shelter of Srila Prabhupada-vani and Lord Krishna, the Holy Name, directly.
The disappointed disciples of our Godbrothers remain on duty to give Srila Prabhupada’s mercy to the suffering masses of conditioned souls on this planet, which is known as Martyaloka or the planet of death. Krishna consciousness is a matter of life and death for everyone. Srila Prabhupada wanted millions, he said “a hundred million” devotees.
Respectful obeisances must go out to all the recently disappointed 1,500+ disciples, with the prayer to please take care to remain disciples under the direct protection of their Param-guru, Srila Prabhupada, who said that the grandfather is more kind to the sons than the father. So be it.
If there is no need to get initiated again and again, then why not just accept Srila Prabhupada from the beginning, eliminate the bogus guru and just accept Srila Prabhupada? This Rupanuga cannot explain. there is no difference between worship of Srila Prabhupada directly or worship of Srila Prabhupada after your bogus guru falls. so If one is possible, then the other is also possible. Period. And again, the July 9th letter was written in response to the question, “when you are no longer with us.” Rupanuga wants to deceive everyone by claiming that the July 9th letter does not say what it says, in plain English and signed by Srila Prabhupada. I have heard every excuse to ignore Prabhupada’s July 9th letter, but none of them make any sense. None. It is what it is. and that’s the beauty of it. It says what it says in plain english and those like Rocana, Rupanuga and the GBC have to really stretch it to explain why it should be ignored. But all their excuses are nothing but a pile of stool.
Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja Prabhupada
Letter to his London disciples, July, 1969:
“Therefore having a bona fide spiritual master and serving him and pleasing him and getting his mercy is essential. Otherwise there can be no advancement in Krishna consciousness. And unless the spiritual master is a pure devotee of Krishna then he has no potency to give you Krishna. He is simply a cheating rascal.
So in fact above all the rules and regulations and offenses I have mentioned the most important thing, the essential thing, which is required if you want to come to the stage of purely chanting the Hare Krishna mantra is you must have a bona fide spiritual master who is a pure devotee of Krishna. Without having a bona fide spiritual master you can chant Hare Krishna forever but you will not be able to advance because Krishna does not reveal Himself in this way. He only reveals Himself to those devotees who surrender to and serve and please His pure devotees.”
How can a disciplic succession whose gurus advocated, did, or covered up murder by poison of the founder acarya EVER be any good? It is impossible that from a thorn tree seed an oak tree will grow.
Come out then, from among these maya’s harlots, take up the exclusive service of Srila Prabhupada without doubt, and no more be bothered by gambling and duplicity. Join the many newly expanded branches of Srila Prabhupada’s ISKCON, and serve unreservedly. Do not associate any more with cheaters and abusers, there is no need.
pamho prabhus agtACBSP yasya deve para bhaktir yatha deve tatha gurau tasyaite kathita hy arthah prakasante mahatmanah, only unto those great souls who serve guru and Krishna with implicit faith is the import of the Vedas fully revealed (Svetasvatara Upanisad 6.23)
Is is true that bhakti is independent but we can’t approach Sri Krishna directly, especially in this age where dharma is very hard to obtain.
Of course there are special cases but we should never think that we can do that without receiving divya-jnana in the heart by Srila Prabhupada.
Our param guru is SRILA BHAKTISIDDHANTA SARASVATI THAKUR PRABHUPADA because without HIS instruction to HIS best disciple (HDG ACBSP) to print transcendental books, we were not here now but still in maha-maya.
So we just came out fron this camel mentality therefore we can now understand the difference between guru and param guru, yad datta matra vibhava prakata prabhava govindam adi purusam tam aham bhajami B.S 5.53
agtys
ys seva das
haribol
Hare Krsna.
Where does Srila Prabhupada say that the July 9th letter was written in response to the question,
“when you are no longer with us.” ?
And when is that time “when you are no longer with us” ?
Are we all not worshiping Srila Prabhupada directly anyway whether our bogus guru falls or not?
If it was as simple as you say that the July 9th letter says what it says in plain english then why are there so many different interpretations from the ritviks, the Gbc, the Gurus, and the other devotees?
And what do you think the July 9th letter says anyway?
Dont ignore the July 9th letter,its signed by Srila Prabhupada!
And what is the beauty of the July 9th letter then if it is what it is and says what it says in plain english?
I think its plain american not english and the standard of linguistics is not beautiful and the spelling is bad and the useage of grammar is appalling but Srila Prabhupada still counter signed the letter, i wonder why He did that dont you?
I think Srila Prabhupada had the last laugh! He has a great sense of humour.
For me Srila Prabhupada is not “no longer with us “, He is very much living with us and in His Books.
your servant dusyanta dasa.
Well the letter states that it is in response to question on 28 May wherein Srila prabhupada was asked about when “he would no longer be with us” this is historical fact. the letter was written in response to that question, do not pretend that it was not , or that you are not aware of it. that is just plain cheating yourself. secondly, the only ones interpreting the letter are those who want to reject it. like yourself. you have an arsenal of excuses to ignore Srila Prabhupada’s instructions contained in that letter, SIGNED by him. He understood what the letter meant, why can’t you? do you think Srila Prabhupada read the letter, did not understand it, but signed it anyway? is that what you think? do think that Srila Prabhupada did not know what he was signing? That he did not understand the meaning of the word “henceforward.” do you think Srila Prabhupada was tricked or coerced into signing something he didn’t understand? So it was clear to Srila Prabhupada when he signed it, but it is not clear to you? So which words are troubling you? is english your second language? you let me know exactly what part of the letter you cannot understand, which sentence is giving you trouble? remember, Srila Prabhupada had no problem understanding it and neither did anyone else when he asked, “is it clear?” and everone answered “yes, it’s clear Srila Prabhupada” but somehow, now, for you and others who want to be gurus, it is somehow now not clear. SHEEEESHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! you might be able to fool some knew brainwashed bhaktas some of the time, but you can’t fool every devotee all of the time.
Hare Krsna Sri Mukunda Prabhu
There is no reference in the July 9th letter to the question of 28th May.The date of May 28th is not mentioned in the July 9th letter,this was my question which you seemed to have misunderstood.
Again, where does SRILA PRABHUPADA say that the July 9th letter is in answer to the question of 28th May.?
I am not interested in your interpretation but you said that the July 9th letter is in response to the May 28th question “when you are no longer with us”, where is that stated . Apart from you stating this, where does authority for this statement come from?
Yes many other ritviks dont say what you are saying,many other Gbc/Gurus dont say that and many other Iskcon devotees dont say that, so where do you get that authority from?
Most of your rhetorical questions are irrelevant because we all know Srila Prabhupada signed and read the letter and understood the letter,i dont disagree.
Your application of the word “henceforward” is not applicable to the process of “ritvik” initiations to continue after Srila Prabhupada’s disappearance, you have misapplied and misunderstood plain English as you call it.
The word “henceforward ” is an adverb and is linked in the sentence to the verb “send”, so what is being instructed is a change in policy from what was happeneing in the past, before July 9th, to the new dynamic.
The change is that written letters are to be sent to the nearest representative from now on NOT to Srila Prabhupada directly.
“Henceforward” just means from now onward(s).
In the context of the July 9th letter ,in the sentence that the word is applied and in the context of the change in policy the word “henceforward” is applied to the verb in that sentence which is the change in policy of from now on to send letters to the nearest representative instead of Srila Prabhupada.Thats plain english as you call it.
You are interpreting the word to mean “after Srila Prabhupada disappears”, which clearly it does not mean in this context.
English is my first language ,in fact i have qualified to a high degree in English but the July 9th letter is not english its american if you read it properly.
It seems to me that you dont understand how to apply words in the context they are written in because of how you interprete the word “henceforward”,clearly it just means “from now on”.
The lines are these;
“Now that Srila Prabhupada has named these representatives , Temple Presidents may henceforward send recommendation for first and second initiation to whichever these representatives are nearest their temple.”
In the past the Temple Presidents were sending their recommendations directly to Srila Prabhupada , but with the naming of these representatives the Temple Presidents from now on may send their written recommendations to the nearest representative.
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever for your interpretation of the application of your definition of the word “henceforward”.
I dont agree with you that Srila Prabhupada understood it in the way you are representing He understood it, that is your interpretation.
And your need to character assassinate and belittle is not a Vaisnava quality and does not support your cause whatsoever.
I am not trying to fool anyone and no devotees either thats your interpretation again but if you stuck to the words i wrote then maybe it would look more like a debate rather than vitriolic replies.You dont do yourself any good nor the ritvik cause any good.
I am not trying to be a Guru whatsoever,again that is your interpretaion, why dont you just try to chill out a bit and no worry so much about your ego?If you want to be a ritvik and you believe this is what Srila Prabhupada wanted then just execute ritvikism and be happy.
I am happy for you not to inteprete the July 9th letter for me and also the 28th May conversation,thanks for your offer but i am cool with my understanding of them.
Hare Krsna , your servant in the service of the great Vaisnavas, dusyanta dasa.
the July 9th letter states “recently when the GBC was with his Divine Grace in Vrindavana…” so the letter is in reference to when Srila Prabhupada and the GBC discussed the contents of the letter. this conversation took place on 28th May. So Srila Prabhupada recommends that one use common sense and if one does not have common sense, one should consult with one that does possess common sense. Unless you are aware of another conversation and you have not revealed this to the devotee community, the letter, when speaking about “recently…in Vrindavana” can only mean the 28th May conversation wherein Srila Prabhupada was asked about when he wold no longer be with us. So unless you can show that “recently …in Vrindavana” means something other than the 28th May conversation, no one with common sense would accept that. Please present that evidence here, so we know what conversation you are saying it does refer to? otherwise, what are you saying?
If you cannot understand the plain english in the July 9th letter as written and signed by Srila Prabhupada which authorizes 11 rtviks to initiate henceforward on Srila Prabhupada’s behalf, and these disciples names would be entered into Srila Prabhupada’s book of disciples, you are beyond help. you are contaminated with the disease to become a guru, plain and simple. end of story.
Have fun aspiring to become a guru,
Hare Krsna Sri Mukunda Prabhu,
I thought your first comment a more measured approach and the second half of your second comment naieve,self-serving and immature.
But you quoted from the July 9th letter inaccurately.
It should have been thus,
“Recently when all of the GBC members were with His Divine Grace in Vrndavana ,Srila Prabhupada indicated that soon He would appoint some of His senior disciples to act as “rittik”- representative of the acarya,for the purpose of performing initiations,both first initiation and second initiation.”
Obviously the plain english refers to the past when the Gbc were with Srila Prabhupada but does not specifically refer to a conversation they had together .
The May 28th transcript is made up of four different versions which obviously raise a number of serious questions.
From “The Final Order” the author himself questions the validity of the tape.
“Why are their differing versions in the first place?
Is the transcript a composite of more than one conversation?
Has the tape itself been edited from more than one conversation?
Has there been more than one version of the tape released?
If so can we be sure that any version is true to any actual conversation?”
So as you can see even from the ritvik booklet “The Final Order” there are many discrepancies existing already and the author of the ritvik hand book “The Final Order” obviously expresses his doubts about the authenticity of the may 28th Appointment Tape.
As we all know the 11 representatives tampered with evidence at that time to make it look as though they had been appointed as Diksa Gurus and as one of them was exclusively in charge of all taped conversations at that time then the legitimate question of authenticity is brought to light.
You have obviously sold out to the idea that everything that is written, if it supports your theory, is legitimate and authentic,rather you than me.
Your logic is that whatever suits your argument is authentic and whatever does not suit your argument is not, even if it were reported by the “bogus gurus”. Yours is a case of wanting your cake and eating it but we can see that even the ritviks handbook “The Final Order” does not subscribe to that kind of presentation.
I think you have made a mistake in your analysis and you just hope that what you say is factual, but i dont think so.
Also the other majority of the may 28th transcript puts into doubt the whole ritvik concept of “after Srila Prabhupada’s disappearance”, which you dont include in your rather frantic piece.
There are another 20 lines you are omitting from the May 28th transcript which the GBC used to prove their point, so its not black and white as you suggest.
I believe the July 9th letter using the word “henceforward” only refers to a change in policy .
Because the word “hence forward ” is connected to the verb “send” in that sentence all that is being newly instructed is a change in policy.
The words from the beginning of the July 9th letter in the second sentence that i quoted from; “act” and “appoint” if you look up the meaning of these two words “act” has eight different meanings one of which indicates a “temporary doing of duties of another person” and “appoint” means “to give a job or role” to someone.Putting these two words together indicate that the position of “rittik”-representative of the acharya was only a temporary role.And if you go through the letter without pre-concieved ideas then it all opens up into an entirely different instuction than the one you say it is.
So i dont agree with you on your conclusions of either July 9th letter and May 28th transcript.
And one last point that i asked you that you have not been able to address is when is this time ? The alleged question from the may 28th “particularly at that time when You are no longer with us.”
Dont you think this is an anomaly and a really strangely framed question???
When is Srila Prabhupada “no longer with us”?
From my perspective Srila Prabhupada is always with us in His vani eternally and the time “when you are no longer with us ” is no time.
In His Book Elevation to Krsna Consciousness on pages 57-58 Srila Prabhupada explains the presence of the Spiritual Master in two phases of conceptions. Vapuh-temporary, and Vani-eternal. By the sound vibration of the Spiritual Master He is immediately present ,Vani is eternal and through this sound vibration the Spiritual Master is eternally immediately present, so where is the question of “no longer with us”.
your servant of the servant of Srila Prabhupada, dusyanta dasa.
Thank you for your very lengthy and wordy explaination why I should reject Srila Prabhupada’s instructions contained in the July 9th letter. Unfortunately I do not need your interpretation of the word hencforward, nor a history lesson on edited tapes to understand what Srila Prabhupada understood in the letter and signed his name to it. Because you want to reject it his instructions, you must write at length many reason to reject, again, what is in plain english. Henceforward means “from now on”
So from now on temple president will send their…..
This is not difficult to understand. Even Tamal understood and admitted in Topanga Canyon. So again, no one needs any assistance in reading this letter and your idea that you must explain the letter to me, because only you can figure it out is most offensive to Srila Prabhupada and his lotus signature that graces the bottom of the letter. what to speak of you insinuating that i cannot understand english or that no one can, only you. and therefore you must write three or four paragraphs trying to discredit a simple letter signed by the Pure Devotee. Shame on you.