Posted by Radha Krsna dasa (ACBSP), MEXICO CITY, MEXICO: In relation to Gour Kesava’s Prabhu’s point that “Srila Prabhupada Gave No Diksa after October 18, 1977,” wherein he uses that day’s conversation as argument, I think that he is reading too much into the meaning of that conversation.
Any transition of the 11 ritviks into full-fledged gurus during Srila Prabhupada’s presence would have required a more clear and specific instruction by Srila Prabhupada on this matter, and not just a remark made regarding a Bengali man who wanted to take initiation directly from him.
Let’s take into consideration that this man wanted to be directly initiated by Srila Prabhupada. Maybe he didn’t want anything to do with the Western ritviks that Srila Prabhupada had appointed to give initiations on his behalf, or he misunderstood the ritvik process altogether, thinking that the ritviks were now real gurus. What we know is that he wanted to be initiated by Srila Prabhupada and had come personally to see him for that purpose. Srila Prabhupada’s answer was that he should just follow the ritvik system already established since the July 9th letter.
During this conversation, Srila Prabhupada refers to the 11 ritviks and particularly to Jayapataka Swami as “deputies,” which unequivocally means those ritviks acting on his behalf. So it is not possible that during that conversation in which he is referring to them as “deputies,” he would be simultaneously elevating them to the rank of gurus in their own right.
Also, Srila Prabhupada mentions here the July 9th letter of ritvik appointments by saying “You have got the list of the names?” as the authority to send this Indian gentleman to see Jayapataka Swami. So the letter refers to ritvik gurus and Srila Prabhupada is simply sending this gentleman to see a ritvik guru.
Gour Kesava? the man is a bucket boy for the bogus GBC. These kind are PAID to write AGAINST Srila Prabhupada as CURRENT DIKSA guru for ISKCON. They have no manners. What they do is try and BEWILDER the innocent with just a FORMALITY of 1st and 2nd Initiations:
761016iv.cha Conversation Interviewer:
Interviewer: What is the procedure of the movement? Do you initiate yourself all the disciples or do your other disciples also do that?
Prabhupada: Well, initiation or no initiation, first thing is knowledge. (break) …knowledge. Initiation is formality. Just like you go to a school for knowledge, and admission is formality. That is not very important thing.
What they WANT is to continue with MONEY SCREWING AND SLAVERY MAKING IN THE NAME OF GIVING DIKSA. THAT IS THEIR OBJECTIVE.
The ONLY person capable of GIVING Diksa is MAHA-BHAGAVATA and the initiator being ONE. This is why 1st and 2nd Initiations are given ON BEHALF of Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada’s July 9th 1977 ORDER Ritvik Representative is BONAFIDE System to see to the FORMALITY aspect.
The important aspect of Diksa is ones SVARUPA is REVEALED. Sins are vanquished when ones SEES Krsna in the heart this is the case of Diksa at Madhyama.
Diksa at Madhyama Adhikari stage is NOT a formality these points have ALREADY covered FULLY in detail:
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=41422#more-41422
pamho agtACBSP, caturdasi ki jai
We are human being in this life that’s alright but do not make things subhuman by cooperating with the few survivors of these eleven appointed betrayers of the order of SRILA PRABHUPADA. Just see the horrible way of departure of some of these eleven bogus guru but the few wretches still alive can’t understand yet that all the deviants of the order of our guru maharaj got a similar karma more or less, i mean they haven’t got enough brain to come to the platform of the real guru tattva, they are just wasting time in punas punah carvita carvananam like all the musi-ko bhavo already in the list are doing by losing the mercy of the best bhakti yogi HDG ACBSP.
Instead of going beyond the factor time they are getting more trapped within the factor time kala cakro which is waiting to give them the last punishment for keeping jumping on the order of SRILA PRABHUPADA. Unfortunately a lot of blinds followers still supports all these usurpers of the transcendental position of our guru maharaj in iskcon and because of all these mudhas supporters they are convinced they are SRILA PRABHUPADA, therefore we say jiv jago jiv jago gauracandra bole kota nidra jayo maya pisacira kole how long you want still to sleep on arms of maya the pisacira witch through bhukti mukti siddhi within all the guru hoaxers etc…
It’s flickring to accept a ordinary human being as SRILA PRABHUPADA i mean the game will be over after death while SRILA PRABHUPADA will still preaching on this planet for another 9.500 years through HIS eternal parampara order within HIS vani seva which is completely different from the low issued of their temporary unauthorized preaching without any parampara order therefore destined to disappear again, and foolish sadhakas still worship them like if they are already eternal.
But the truth is that they need to take birth again because they are not following SRILA PRABHUPADA order properly, we say to all these murk stupid people who worship and support the guru hoaxers to open your eyes by stopping to waste time by taking ordinary people as SRILA PRABHUPADA.
Come on, more then three decades already gone why are you still making the same mistake by worshipping big donkey in the guise of swami? open your eyes you can’t get back what is already gone by losing the mercy of the best paramahamsa HDG ACBSP, HE is our real jagat guru accept HIM as it is and all of you can get back to the real guru tattva by feeling the difference and quality in getting out from the samsara vartmani the path of the living dead.
agtSP ys haribol
Radha Krsna dasa say: “I think that he is reading too much into the meaning of that conversation.”
Srila Prabhupada say: “Vyāsadeva says, that “Although I am writing, I am not the speaker. The speaker is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.” Śrī bhagavān uvāca. “The authority is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, not.” The modern so-called philosophers, scientists, scholars, they say, “I think. I think.” What is your value? The great personalities, they will not say like that. Never they will say. Therefore Kṛṣṇa even says, tattva-darśibhiḥ: “It has been concluded by higher authorities.” He is Himself authority; still He’s not speaking that “I say.” No. Sometimes He says mataṁ mama: “That is My opinion.” But He’s also following the principle, authoritative, tattva-darśibhiḥ. Tattva-darśibhiḥ saṅkhye (?) ubhayor api dṛṣṭo ‘ntaḥ, conclusion. Although Kṛṣṇa is saying that this is sat and this is asat, this is permanent and this is nonpermanent, but still, He is giving evidences that tattva-darśibhiḥ, those who have seen the truth, they have concluded like that. This is, means, authority. “They have concluded like that. Don’t think that I am manufacturing something. No.” Tattva-darśibhiḥ. This is the way of understanding. Whether tattva-darśibhiḥ. We also give reference sometimes in the modern age that such and such professor says such and such. But they are not tattva-darśibhiḥ. They are all speculator. They are not tattva-darśibhiḥ. But we have to go to the tattva-darśī.
tad viddhi praṇipātena
paripraśnena sevayā
upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ
jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ
[Bg. 4.34]
So this tattva-darśī, tattva, this word you should learn very nicely. That that is authoritative, and others they are not authoritative. They are simply speculation. Speculation means mental platform; it has no value. As this body is also nonpermanent, the mind is also flickering. Mind is flickering, accepting something and rejecting something. The same thing now accepted, again rejected. This is mind’s business. So mind cannot be tattva-darśī. Of course we have to think with mind, but under the direction of authority. Then we can reach real tattva.
vadanti tat tattva-vidas
tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam
brahmeti paramātmeti
bhagavān iti śabdyate
[SB 1.2.11]
The Bhagavān is the last word of tattva.
Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)”
http://prabhupadabooks.com/classes/bg/2/16/london/august/22/1973