Dear Prabhus, Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
It’s been proven on our Google Group Prabhupadanuga forum: http://groups.google.com/
See forwarded email #1 below.)
He’s a liar, so he thinks everyone else is a liar! To say that the Ritviks are all liars is an extremely offensive lie. So who is the real liar here, Madhudvisa Dasa or the Ritviks? The answer is obvious. Obviously, he’s trying to be the “pathological liar guru.” A “guru” who gave himself a ritvik initiation and who gave himself a spiritual name. Completely bogus! He’s obviously trying to puff himself up by putting everyone else down, but all that he’s doing is making himself look bad. Only complete fools are going to fall for his offensive lies!
The only time that I ordered anything from him, I didn’t get what was advertised. When I complained about it, he said that he would send a replacement “free of charge.”
See forwarded email #2 below.) More than a year later I reminded him about his promise.
See forwarded email #3 below.), but he never even bothered to reply! Now it’s been more than 3 years, and still nothing!
He’s probably just subconsciously trying to drum up business by creating controversy. Trying increase web traffic to his own capitalistic website so that he can make some money. Let’s retaliate by boycotting his website and delete all of our links to his website! Buy from <http://www.itvproductions.
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa <http://groups.google.com/
———- Forwarded message ———-
Date: Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 8:40 AM
Subject: on Guru: Everyone is lying to you…
To: hbest1@…..com
Hare Krishna! I know this letter may be a bit surprising but I am sending it to you because it touches on the most important aspect of spiritual life. The bona-fide guru. The greatest danger to your spiritual life is accepting someone as your guru who does not have the power to take you back home, back to Godhead. It is essential that you have a bona fide spiritual master, otherwise you are lost. Please read it and if you have any questions please post them at:
http://krishna.org/guru-
And I will answer them there.
The “Guru Issue”. Everyone wants to be a guru. It is such a nice thing to have all those disciples worshiping you and giving you all their money… Even the greatest ritvik leader shouting out “Prabhupada is the guru”, Krishna Kant, also wants to be a guru. He has his philosophy, “The Final Order”, and wants everyone else to follow his philosophy. But, as you may know, I have defeated Krishna Kant’s philosophy way back in 1996 when he first published his paper.
“Krishna Kant has attempted to prove that Srila Prabhupada did not intend any of his disciples to become diksa [initiating] gurus, ever. This is his unique addition to the ritvik philosophy. He has attempted to prove this point by selectively quoting from Srila Prabhupada and using much word jugglery.” (from: http://krishna.org/the-final-
It is true, as Bhakti Vikasa Swami points out, that the main players in the ritvik field today are following the Krishna Kant “Final Order” philosophy and this philosophy has been defeated by Rocana Prabhu and also by myself many years ago.
The “Prabhupada will be the only guru for the next 10,000 years” lie is Krishna Kant’s addition and this is also presented by Yasoda-Nandana Prabhu and ISKCON Bangalore. So they are perpetuating Krishna Kant’s lie: “Prabhupada did not want his disciples to become diksa gurus EVER!!!”
If any sincere person takes the time to read Srila Prabhupada’s books and letters he will find in reality Srila Prabhupada’s desire is that all of his disciples become QUALIFIED diksa gurus and accept disciples. Of course the qualification is simple but rare. So obviously the disciples first have to become qualified, then and only then can they become bona fide gurus… So it is not that every disciple can become guru… They first have to become qualified…
It is not only the ritviks who lie about the guru issue. ISKCON is lying also… They say “Prabhupada wants all his disciples to become gurus…” Carefully omitting the “QUALIFIED”…
And what is that “qualification” for a bona-fide guru? It is very simple, only three words “srotriyam brahma nistham“. That’s all. A bona fide guru has heard from his qualified spiritual master and he is fixed in brahman (which means transcendental, liberated, no longer affected by maya). Having heard from his bona-fide guru means that he only repeats and explains what he has heard from his bona fide guru, nothing else. No speculation, nothing from any other source, and at the same time he has to be fixed on the transcendental platform.
Now all the ISKCON guru-tattva is simply for the purpose of presenting the lie that the guru does not have to be brahma-nistham, does not have to be a pure devotee, does not have to be liberated… This ‘non-liberated guru’ philosophy was introduced into ISKCON after it became painfully obvious that the 11 so-called zonal acharyas were not liberated.
So, because the ISKCON gurus are not liberated, not brahma-nistham, the whole ISKCON “guru tattva” is about “proving” that the guru does not have to be a pure devotee. But this is a lie. The guru has to be a pure devotee…
http://krishna.org/the-guru-
ISKCON today is so attached to the lie that the guru does not have to be a pure devotee that if you would dare repeat any of the quotes from Srila Prabhupada in the above article you would no longer be welcome there.
So on both sides of the guru debate we find people who are lying to support their own personal sense gratification or philosophy. The ISKCON gurus lie because they know they are not pure devotees and they also know they can not fool others any more than they are pure devotees so they have to claim that it is not necessary to be brahma-nistham to be a guru.
Although they do not say it, they do not want to be srotriyam either, they do not want to be limited to simply repeating and explaining the things Srila Prabhupada presents in his books. The desire to add something new, to speculate, is very strong. And ISKCON is full of speculation and full of new ideas and things devotees have heard from sources other than Srila Prabhupada so the ISKCON ‘guru tattva‘ also avoids the srotriyam aspect of the qualifications of a guru.
So the result? The GBC simply says “All devotees should be gurus and have some disciples.” Never any mention of any qualifications for the gurus at all…
And why do the ritviks lie and say “Prabhupada did not want any of his disciples to become diksa gurus, EVER!!!” There are two reasons, one is many have been cheated by bogus ISKCON gurus and see bogus ISKCON gurus cheating more innocent devotees and this is very painful for everyone and they want to expose the bogus gurus, so lying and saying “Prabhupada did not want any of his disciples to become gurus” becomes an attractive philosophy to them. The other, more insidious motivation, is that Krishna Kant is of South Indian descent and the Indian brahmanas, particularly the South Indian brahmanas are very upset at Srila Prabhupada and ISKCON for making westerners Vaisnavas and worse still making westerners sannyasis and gurus. They want to stop this and have taken to supporting the ritvik philosophy as a way to eliminate western gurus, “Prabhupada did not want any of his disciples to become diksa gurus ever.” is an idea that the Indian caste brahmana’s like very much…
So ISKCON is lying and and the ritviks are lying. Of course there is considerable truth mixed into what both sides say. But when you mix up lies with truth the whole thing becomes useless. If you really want to know what a bona fide guru is please READ SRILA PRABHUPADA’s BOOKS.
PS: Please do not reply to this email, I will not receive it. Instead if you have questions or comments on this email you can either post them on a relevant article at:
http://krishna.org/guru-
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
KrishnaStore.com — for everything you need to become Krishna conscious at home
Krishna.org — The Hare Krishna Community
PrabhupadaBooks.com — Read Srila Prabhupada’s original books online
Krishna.tv — listen to and download all Prabhupada music and audio for free
———- Forwarded message ———-
From: Madhudvisa dasa <madhudvisa@……com>
Date: Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: Your KrishnaStore.com order: Shipped
To: “Pratyatosa Dasa (Howard Charles Best)” <pratyatosa@….com>
Dear Pratyatosa Prabhu
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
I am glad the DVD is working fine.
I am sorry, what is happening is there are 2 versions of “Hare Krishna in the Movies.” The more recent one has the extra films from later on.
ITV are having a problem with the master of the DVD that has the new “Hare Krishna in the Movies” and the “Lou Grant Show” on it.
So we are supplying the original “Hare Krishna in the Movies” with the “Lou Grant Show” right now.
It is because I think that the Hare Krishna episode of the “Lou Grant Show” is a very significant show. Perhaps the most important television show ever produced on the Hare Krishna movement.
I will be returning to the US and to ITV in the next couple of weeks and will fix up the problem with the master for the new DVD with the new “Hare Krishna in the Movies” on it and send you one of these DVDs free of charge.
As far as I am aware there was nothing deleted from the DVD you received. I made the master for that DVD and the source of the video was the original 3/4″ edited master tape. We did not delete anything.
Maybe it is on the new version, I do not know, but I will send you a new DVD as soon as possible.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Your servant
Madhudvisa dasa
From: Pratyatosa <pratyatosa@….com>
Date: Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 3:55 AM
Subject: Re: BA Refuses to Release “Rascal Editors” Conversation
To: Madhudvisa dasa <madhudvisa@….com>
Cc: istagosthi@….com, “Eddy Gaasbeek (Ekanatha dasa)” <eka108@….com>, David Shapiro <nrsimhananda@….com>Dear Madhudvisa Prabhu, you don’t know the difference between “early 90s” and “1999?” That’s quite a stretch, wouldn’t you say?
I was probably the first one to figure out how to convert the RAs into MP3s. I used a cracked, older version of StreamBox Ripper. (They got sued by Real Audio, so the newer versions didn’t include Real Audio conversion.) It only took a few hours, not 2 months! Lots of devotees, at the time, asked me how to convert the RAs into MP3s. Nobody wanted RAs. Everybody wanted MP3s. It was the time of WinAmp and Napster. MP3s were all the rage! But you led a sheltered life, and had no idea what was going on in the real world! Did you even know, at the time, what the Internet was?
You are avoiding the issue, Prabhu. The issue is that <http://prabhupadabooks.com/
My oldest son, Murari, is the one who first came up with Tamal and 15 other Sanskrit diacritic fonts during the DOS days of the early 90s. He also came up with a Devanagari font. The Archives just basically copied what he’d done without ever giving him any credit, let alone any money. They sold the VedaBase for $600 a copy, and never gave him a penny for all of his hard, pioneering work. Why didn’t you ask him where to get Unicode fonts? Or, do a Google search such as:
http://www.google.com/search?
For years, I was #1, but now I’m just #2 and #3. My son, Murari, who used to be #4 has dropped down to #6.
I asked you how you tell the difference between a search bot accessing your website and a person, but you simply ignored my question. In other words, you seem to have a secrecy policy just like the Archives. And this was when we were supposedly buddy-buddy, working on the pictures project together.
More than a year ago, I ordered the “Hare Krishna in the Movies” DVD from you. Trouble is, it wasn’t a new version like you’d advertised. It was the same old version that hadn’t been updated since the 80s. When I complained, you said that the new version didn’t work, and that you would send me a fixed new version free of change as soon as it became available. I’m still waiting!
Therefore, how can I take anything you say seriously?
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
Prabhu I am tired of this complaining. Please don’t waste any more of my time with this nonsense. We are supposed to be on the same team Prabhu, not trying to attack each other like this.
It could be 1999 for the real audio release but I think it is before then. I know I was in New York City distributing books in 2000 and it seems to me that the Real Audio project was completed quite some time before then. Because you have a CD with August of 1999 as the file creation date does not mean that is when I first created the files Prabhu. I am not sure Prabhu. I don’t remember the date for sure.
But you really don’t seem to realize that this was a revolutionary project to put the whole collection of Prabhuapda audio on CDs and distribute them to the devotees for very little. Those CDs contain the audio from over 1000 cassette tapes which were selling at that time for about $80 for sixteen tapes. Which meant before this Prabhu only a few had access to the complete collection of the Prabhuapda audio. And this concept really created a revolution in hearing from Prabhuapda all over ISKCON. So it is all good really but you see it as all bad…
I did the best thing I could at the time and consulted with all the devotees I could at the time and I did not know you at the time. Prabhu stop complaining.
And as far as PrabhupadaBooks.com it is a very successful site, so many devotees write with such praise and say how much it is helping them in their devotional service and how they use it every day. And it is just a half-finished prototype. I spent only about three months working on it and will go back to working on it in a month hopefully and it will develop into something much better than is currently there.
I store the information in the database the way I store it in the database for very good reasons. You may not know it is not very easy to handle multi-byte utf-8 data in php. The system I am using is very practical. I can not understand Prabhu why you have to find fault with everything?
If you want to find fault with anything there are plenty of faults everywhere. This is the material world. We should be looking for that tiny spark of Krishna consciousness and fanning that. It would be far better if you could try and find something which has some slight hint of service to Srila Prabhupada and encouraging me to push on with that rather than trying to criticize everything I have ever done, everything the archives has ever done and everything Nrsimhananda has ever done…
Please do not send me any more of these emails Prabhu and unsubscribe me from whatever is sending me these emails.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Your servant
Madhudvisa dasa
Kali Yuga is so strong that there has to be someone quarreling at all times. Someones always got to complain and fight…it’s so exhausting and so sad.
Chant Hare Krsna and be happy. Take shelter of Srila Prabhupada.
Madhudvisa dasa: Krishna Kant has attempted to prove that Srila Prabhupada did not intend any of his disciples to become diksa [initiating] gurus, ever.
Is this true? Considering that Madhudvisa Dasa is the only one, to my knowledge, who has said this, it may very well not be. And even if it is, there are very few Ritviks who say that Srila Prabhupada’s disciples are prohibited from initiating on their own behalf outside of ISKCON. Therefore, to use this statement as the basis for accusing all Ritviks of being liars is a very offensive lie!
Obviously, Madhudvisa has not read http://rtvik.com/ which states:
(http://rtvik.com/?TP=2021)
More convincing evidence that Madhudvisa has some very big credibility issues are enumerated on the http://www.iskconirm.com/docs/webpages/Madhudvisa%20Defeats%20Madhudvisa.htm web page, which concludes:
On http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi/msg/b475ef86b4cba537 is proof that Madhudvisa’s knee-jerk reaction to being held accountable for this own words/actions is that this is “craziness.” But who is the actual crazy liar, Madhudvisa Dasa or those he accuses of being crazy and/or liars?
Hare Krsna,
Please accept my most humble obeisances.All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Dear Pratyatosa Prabhu,
I did not understand what you were saying against Madhudvisa Das Prabhu in this article(the technical things).What I understood from the article–“Guru-everyone is lying to you”(please read Dhanudara das’s comment on the article)is that Srila Prabhupada had actually wanted qualified diksa gurus(quotations from Prabhupada are provided in”The Final Order-A Very Misleading Paper”),but since His disciples were not qualified at the time of His passing away,he left the ritvik system of initiation.So,it is not correct to say that Prabhupada never intended His disciples to become
diksa gurus.But Krishnakant Prabhu says in his IRM that no one can be diksa guru unless appointment is there and so no one of Prabhupada’s disciples can become guru.But pure devotee is never by appointment,right?If Prabhupada really always wanted that He should be diksa guru for next 10000 years,then why did He express His desire that His disciples should be qualified diksa gurus?Of course,I am not saying that ritvik system is not bonafide .It is true that finally,Prabhupada ordered ritvik system,so we must all follow it.(I do not support any living guru theology,I want to accept Srila prabhupada)Also it is not correct to take ritvik initiation from anywhere,since Prabhupada wanted ritvik initiations to be carried out by those who are authorised by the GBC,and not by anyone who claims to be a ritvik. Since now this formal initiation is very diificult(ISKCON now is against ritvik),so all one must do is sincerely read Prabhupada’s books,so that He will initiate us when He desires.I also see that Madhudvisa Prabhu always tells everyone to surernder to Prabhupada and not to some “living”bogus guru.
So,Prabhu can you please explain me how is that Madhudvisa Prabhu is a liar.Is his service of distribute Prabhupada’s unedited works,not praiseworthy and invaluable.
I will be very grateful if you can answer my doubt.I hope you have understoo what I have expressed.I am not very intelligent and discerning.Please do not take any offence.
Your servant,
Santosh
Santosh says: So, Prabhu, can you please explain [to] me how [it] is that Madhudvisa Prabhu is a liar.
1. When he was called to task for originally publishing Srila Prabhupada’s lectures/conversations in the Real Audio format instead of the much more popular MP3 format, instead of admitting that he had made a mistake, he concocted a completely ridiculous, nonsensical excuse. This is called lying!
2. When he sent me a DVD that was not as advertised, he said that he would send me a free replacement ASAP, but, after more than 3 years, still nothing. This is called lying!
3. He falsely accused all Ritviks of being liars. This is called lying!
to Acyutananda Dasa and Jayagovinda Dasa in a letter dated August 21, 1968:
“The first thing, I warn Acyutananda, do not try to initiate. You are not in a proper position now to initiate anyone. Besides that, the etiquette is that so long the Spiritual Master is present, all prospective disciples should be brought to him. . . . I am training you all to become future Spiritual Masters, but do not be in a hurry. . . . You don’t be attracted by such cheap disciples immediately. One has to rise gradually by service . . . . Don’t be allured by cheap disciples. Go on steadfastly to render service first. If you immediately become Guru, then the service activities will be stopped; and as there are many cheap gurus and cheap disciples, without any substantial knowledge, and manufacturing new sampradayas, and with service activities stopped, and all spiritual progress choked up.”
Re: SP Letter to Acyutananda and Jaya Govinda, 21/8/68.
We see Srila Prabhupada’s standard method for dealing with ambitious deviants who were allured by the maya of becoming unauthorised initiators – they are ‘warned’ and told the etiquette that prevents them from initiating now. There is no order here for Acyutananda to accept his own disciples. The whole point of the letter is to persuade him not to do this.
Many have acknowledged that Srila Prabhupada had to deal with his disciples who had the ambition to become guru.
Bhurijana Dasa, author of My Glorious Master, recounts yet another instance of how Srila Prabhupada reacted when he become aware of disciples who were ambitious to become guru:
Even if someone becomes qualified he must still be authorised.
For Srila Prabhupada to indicate the only time period in which a disciple may accept disciples, is not the same as saying that this will or should or is ordained to happen. Within ISKCON there is no authority for anyone to initiate apart from Srila Prabhupada. This is clear from the final directive on initiation issued by Srila Prabhupada on July 9th 1977. He is the only diksa guru mentioned in this directive. Thus is obviously apparent that in writing to Acyutananda, telling him he could take disciples if he just held on a little longer, Srila Prabhupada was simply trying to keep him in devotional service. In so doing there was at least the possibility that, in time, his ambitious mentality might become purified.
Bhakta Hugh says: Srila Prabhupada was simply trying to keep him in devotional service. In so doing there was at least the possibility that, in time, his ambitious mentality might become purified.
Yes. It was like a juggling act for Srila Prabhupada to keep some of his overly-ambitious neophyte disciples engaged in devotional service “just a little bit longer.” This is explained further in point #5 of my one-page http://rtvik.com/ website:
(http://rtvik.com/?TP=2794)
Although I personally feel, because of the above train of logic, that I am restricted from ever taking on disciples on my own behalf, I’m not going to criticize a godbrother or godsister who does it outside of ISKCON. That is between him/her and Lord Sri Krishna.
What many of us don’t seem to realize is that if there is a pure devotee within ISKCON, he or she would be perfectly happy simply doing some menial service for Srila Prabhupada. Jayananda Prabhu is a perfect example of this. In fact, a disciple of Srila Prabhupada who has the “I wanna be a guru like Srila Prabhupada within Srila Prabhupada’s own institution” disease is, by definition, a neophyte, a rascal, or maybe even a demon!
Here is something that I wrote on this subject more than 13 years ago:
(http://pratyatosa.com/?P=18&TP=5491)
Hari Bol!
Jai Acharyas!
It is said in ‘Brahmana and Vaishnava’ book that those who had done innumerable austerities and developed Devotion can take Diksha and Siksha and make their life successful.
But without such Sadhna and tapasya, I don’t think that mixed devotees in Iskcon and others can go to Spiritual world.
Pure devotee is very very rare. Thatswhy many Iskcon gurus fell down in 80s to today. Maya is tricking sincereless souls in form of subtle deviations.
MAY LORD Krishna and Acharyas save sincere and fortunate souls!