httpv://youtu.be/qCpjX8g3oGE
video: Nityananda Trayodashi Darshan
By Gadadhara das (Berkeley, CA)
Dear Bhakti Vikasha Maharaj,
Please accept my humble obeisances. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Over the years I have noticed that you have stepped forward to speak with “frank” and “bold” statements regarding issues that you think stray from Srila Prabhupada’s teachings. I have also noticed that you wrote a book called, “On Speaking Strongly in Srila Prabhupada’s Service”. I have not read it, but Srila Prabhupada writes, “I want that you all my advanced disciples become very bold preachers and take up this task of saving the fallen humanity from its worst condition of sinfulness.”
Actually it is in line with this very quote and another misquote that I am writing you. I am writing you because I am surprised that you have fell victim to misrepresenting the verse “amara ajnaya guru hana tara’ ei desa”.
You write:
“What is the qualification?”
The answer to this is given by Srila Prabhupada himself in the famous conversation of April 22, 1977:
“Caitanya Mahaprabhu wants that, amara ajnaya guru hana.’ You become guru.’ But be qualified. Little thing, strictly follower.”
Especially as Srila Prabhupada’s statements about succession have been variously interpreted, we must be very careful to not introduce preconceptions or personal motivations when attempting to understand and explain the statements and intentions of our acarya. Yet the simple and clear understanding here, directly derived from Srila Prabhupada’s own words, is that the qualification to be a guru is to be a strict follower.
You and so many others have completely taken it out of context for so many years. This has been parroted by so many as a free ticket to Guru Stardom, but what is the context of the quote? That is the real question.
In this verse Narottama das Thakur writes about the burning in the heart caused by materialistic life and Srila Prabhupada goes on to say that at the end of life one should renounce all family life and go to the forest. THEN in the next verse Lord Chaitanya replies to Kurma, “Don’t speak like that again.”
This is the context of this famously misquoted verse “amara ajnaya guru hana tara’ ei desa”. The house holder Kurma wanted to renounce everything an go with the Lord and become a renounced Guru, just like so many in today’s world. They wanted to join Srila Prabhupada, dress like him, and do what he did, just like Kurma wanted to join Lord Chaitanya. But Lord Chaitanya’s reply is, “Don’t speak like that again.”
Srila Prabhupada nails the meaning in the purport to verse CC. Madhya 7.127:
“It is not advisable in this Age of Kali to leave one’s family suddenly, for people are not trained as proper brahmacaris and grihasthas. Therefore Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu advised the brahmaṇa not to be too eager to give up family life. It would be better to remain with his family and try to become purified by chanting the Hare Krishna maha-mantra regularly under the direction of a spiritual master.
This is the instruction of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. If this principle is followed by everyone, there is no need to accept sannyasa. In the next verse Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu advises everyone to become an ideal householder by offenselessly chanting the Hare Krishna mantra and teaching the same principle to everyone he meets.
Then the famously misquoted verse Madhya 7.128: “yare dekha, tare kaha ‘krsna’-upadesa amara ajnaya guru hana tara’ ei desa” –
“Instruct everyone to follow the orders of Lord Sri Krishna as they are given in the Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam. In this way become a spiritual master and try to liberate everyone in this land.”
Srila Prabhupada again continues to make it clear in the purport:
“This is the sublime mission of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. Many people come and inquire whether they have to give up family life to join the Society, but that is not our mission. One can remain comfortably in his residence. We simply request everyone to chant the maha-mantra: Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. If one is a little literate and can read the Bhagavad-gita As It Is and Srimad-Bhagavatam, that is so much the better.”
Srila Prabhupada goes on to write about chanting with ones family and following the 4 regulative principles and making prasadam for the Lord. And at the end, just so we understand, again Srila Prabhupada writes, “The Krishna consciousness movement is trying to elevate human society to the perfection of life by pursuing the method described by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu in His advice to the brahmaṇa Kurma. That is, one should stay at home, chant the Hare Krishna mantra and preach the instructions of Krishna as they are given in the Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam.”
And then the next verse again it is explained:
“Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu further advised the brahmaṇa Kurma, “If you follow this instruction, your materialistic life at home will not obstruct your spiritual advancement. Indeed, if you follow these regulative principles, we will again meet here, or, rather, you will never lose My company.”
PURPORT
This is an opportunity for everyone. If one simply follows the instructions of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, under the guidance of His representative, and chants the Hare Krishna mantra, teaching everyone as far as possible the same principle, the contamination of the materialistic way of life will not even touch him. It does not matter whether one lives in a holy place like Vrindavana, Navadvipa or Jagannatha Puri or in the midst of European cities, where the materialistic way of life is very prominent. If a devotee follows the instructions of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, he lives in the company of the Lord. Wherever he lives, he converts that place into Vrindavana and Navadvipa. This means that materialism cannot touch him.This is the secret of success for one advancing in Krishna consciousness.
So this is the real context of the verse, “Instruct everyone to follow the orders of Lord Sri Krishna as they are given in the Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam. In this waybecome a spiritual master and try to liberate everyone in this land.” This means the one should stay in whatever position they are in and preach Krishna Consciousness and IN THAT WAY they become a spiritual master. It does not mean that they are instructed to take disciples. There is no instruction to take any disciples in this part of the Sri Chaitanya Caritamrita.
If one is preaching by their example, like it says in the purport before, by reading Bhagavad-gita and Srimad Bhagavatam, chanting with their families, and cooking prasadam for everyone, then they are at the front of the line in preaching and yes they are spiritual masters. But to give initiations to someone, they must have a personal specific instruction from the spiritual master.
Srila Prabhupada says,
“Nobody can be self-made anything. A medical practitioner, he cannot become self-made, that “I have studied all the medical books in my home.” No. “Have you ever gone to the medical college and taken instruction from the bona fide teachers?” Then, if you have got the certificate, then you are medical practitioner. Similarly, bona fide guru means he must be authorized by the superior guru. Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, amara ajnaya guru hana tara’ ei desa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. He must receive the order from the superior. And the superior must be bona fide. Then he’s bona fide, not self-made” (Vrindaban, Oct 31st 1972)
No one can become a self-made diksha guru just from this quote of Lord Chaitanya, that “everyone become guru”. Lord Chaitanya gave a specific instruction to Kurma “don’t speak like that” when he was saying he wanted to give up everything and travel with Him. Kurma wanted to be “self-made”. He wanted to go by his own idea.
Lord Chaitanya says, “don’t speak like that”. He says just stay here and chant Hare Krishna and read Gita and give out prasadam and in THAT WAY become a spiritual master. Otherwise what is the meaning of Diksha Guru? What is the distinction? There are different kinds of Gurus: siksha, diksha, mother, teacher, speaker: what are the distinctions? There are distinctions.
That is a different subject, but at least this one verse should be taken in context. As I quoted before, Srila Prabhupada writes, “I want that you all my advanced disciples become very bold preachers and take up this task of saving the fallen humanity from its worst condition of sinfulness.” (8/16/74) This is the same instruction. Just give up your “own ideas” and surrender on to what your guru wants.
In the same manner Krishna says to Arjuna, “Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear.”
In other words, just listen and stop making your own “varieties” and go out and chant Hare Krishna and read Gita and make prasadam and in that way “teach” others. So many Prabhupada disciples want to become like Kurma and do what THEY WANT TO DO for Srila Prabhupada, but hardly anyone wants to DO WHAT SRILA PRABHUPADA wants them to do. Srila Prabhupada and Lord Chaitanya want them to just make it simple, BE WHO YOU ARE, Chant Hare Krishna, Read Bhagavatam, make Prasada and speak to others about what you heard : Sravanam Kirtanam. It is a simple process.
Your Servant, Gadadhara das (Berkeley, CA)
Yes, the GBC now says everyone can be a guru, except they first of all in 1977 said no, only 11 can be the gurus? Then they said, only those voted in by the 11 can be gurus, and so on, they never actually established a policy that all of the devotees could be gurus? No, you need to be voted in by persons most of whom have fallen in order to be a guru, that is their process. They do not allow “everyone” to be guru, they only allow people who agree to their principle that acharyas are most of the time fallen debauchees, and only if you agree to their bogus principle idea, can you be eligible for a vote. Of course guru by vote is another bogus idea itself, but that is another topic. ys pd
Prabhupada “So far designation is concerned, the spiritual master authorizes every one of his disciples. But it is up to the disciple to carry out the order, able to carry out or not. It is not that spiritual master is partial, he designates one and rejects other. He may do that. If the other is not qualified, he can do that. But actually his intention is not like that. He wants that each and every one of his disciple become as powerful as he is or more than that. That is his desire. Just like father wants every son to be as qualified or more qualified than the father. But it is up to the student or the son to raise himself to that standard.”
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, I understand.
Prabhupāda: If you are incapable of raising yourself to the standard of becoming spiritual master, that is not your spiritual master’s fault, that is your fault. He wants, just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā [Cc. Madhya 7.128], By My order, every one of you become a guru. If one cannot carry out the order of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then how he can become a guru? The first qualification is that he must be able to carry out the order of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Then he becomes guru. So that carrying out the order of Caitanya Mahāprabhu depends on one’s personal capacity. Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā. Acceptance of Caitanya Mahāprabhu as Kṛṣṇa, that is there in the śāstra, in the Upaniṣads, in Mahābhārata, in Bhāgavata. (excerpt from Room Conversation on June 29th 1972.)
———————————————————
The relevant parts in this discussion are where Srila Prabhupada says,
1. “The spiritual master MAY do that.” (designate one, reject another). Meaning he has both permission and ability inherent in his authoritative position.
2. “If one is not qualified he CAN do it.” This is a case where the word “can” is being used to indicate under what conditions he “may” do that. (if one is not qualified”). The context of permission was introduced with the initial use of the word “may”. Srila Prahbupada is explaining why he might make such a designation.
Whereas in the section from NOI 5 relating to “accepting disciples”, there is no precedent or context of permission. George proposed: “we would have no problem with any disciple of Srila Prabhupada … initiating upon their own behalfs in accordance with the permissions in the Nectar of Instruction”
NOI 5: “The devotee should also know his own position and should not try to imitate a devotee situated on a higher platform…
… One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikārī. A neophyte Vaiṣṇava or a Vaiṣṇava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, but such disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikārī as a spiritual master.”
All I see here is an admittance that a neophyte “can” (is capable of) accepting disciples and giving them insufficient guidance. This statement of fact is found in the context of 2 prohibitions saying this should not be done.
The acaryas intention is not that they wish to designate one disciple and not another. The acarya wants all to come to the standard. But he may designate. He can do it.
It appears that in the May 28th conversation that Srila Prabhupada designated the ritviks were to “actually” be gurus, but it was by his order which means the disciples were theirs LIMITED BY CONDITIONS, and simultaneously granddisciples of Srila Prabhupada’s.
The conditions of this discipleship is that in context of all other instructions, those ritviks would likely have very little regular participation in the lives of disciples in their region, if at all, and any instruction they might personally give would need to be strictly in line with the body of instructions framed by Srila Prabhupada himself for Iskcon.
So basically, Srila Prabhupada was stating the obvious, which is that any senior Bhakta involved with a junior is giving discipline and acting like a guru. He was forced to authorize neophytes to teach his new aspiring disciples, thus putting those neophytes in a position as siksa guru. Yet in context of Iskcon, no aspirant is ever exclusively the disciple of a Ritvik, nor even their local temple president, or any one person, because Srila Prabhupada’s instructions trump all others, and are easily available for comparison. Any teacher whether TP, or Ritvik, or GBC, or otherwise can and should be relieved of their teaching position and barred from teaching new people if they contradict the guidelines of the Founder Acarya.
Srila Prabhupada did not have such restrictions. He is the uttama spiritual master that all who approach Iskcon is meant to take shelter of as per NOI 5.
Any devotee of any level of advancement who wishes to teach within the halls of Iskcon is required to teach within the guidelines set forth by Srila Prabhupada. An advanced mahabhagavata would be the MOST STRICT in this regard in order to prevent confusion and chaos. And if he was guided by the Lord to do otherwise, such an advanced devotee would start a mission separate from Iskcon, unless anyone believes the Lord himself would wish to sew confusion and chaos within Iskcon. Any takers on that theory?
A neophyte accepting disciples to whom they give insufficient guidance is the case in Its-a-con today, precisely because these neophytes are under the illusion that they are fully liberated Acaryas (like Srila Prabhupada) and the new Bhaktas they are teaching are their exclusive disciples. They then relegate Srila Prabhupada to a formal position of “Param Siksa guru” (in name only) while making up new rules and standards contrary to Srila Prabhupada’s under the claim there is a new “time place and circumstance” and that they are competent to make the neeede adjustments because of a 2/3 vote of other neophytes.
Whereas with the Ritvik system of initiation, all neophyte or madhyam siksa gurus were to follow all the standards given by Srila Prahbupada TO THE LETTER, including telling new Bhaktas that they are indeed disciples of the Uttama Mahabhagavata Founder Acarya of Iskcon, and instructing them within the guidelines given by Srila Prabhupada. In other words, if they didn’t know the answer to a question, or what guidance to give in any circumstance they would not speculate and make something up believing they had divine license to do so, but instead would admit their deficit, and ask a senior, or look it up in one of Prabhupada’s reference literatures (a novel idea).
That guidance would be sufficient, and in that sense even a neophyte guru would be considered a pure devotee and a transparent via medium to his “disciples”.
Bhakta Marks writes ; ” Any devotee of any level of advancement who wishes to teach within the halls of Iskcon is required to teach within the guidelines set forth by Srila Prabhupada.
AGREED.
An advanced mahabhagavata would be the MOST STRICT in this regard in order to prevent confusion and chaos. And if he was guided by the Lord to do otherwise, such an advanced devotee would start a mission separate from Iskcon, unless anyone believes the Lord himself would wish to sew confusion and chaos within Iskcon.
THAT MAHABHAGAVATA SHALL HAVE THE POWER TO UNITE US ALL UNDER THE GUIDANCE AND THE ORDER OF SRILA PRABHUPADA TO CARRY FORWARD SRILA PRABHUPADA’S MOVEMENT BY GIVING INITIATION TO ALL WHO SO EVER ARE DESIROUS TO ACCEPT IT ON BEHALF OF SRILA PRABHUPADA BECAUSE IN THE ISKCON SRILA PRABHUPADA IS PRESENT THROUGH HIS VANI.
AS IT IS FURTHER CONFIRMED ;
“TRANSLATION
Praying at the lotus feet of Çré Rüpa and Çré Raghunätha, always desiring their mercy, I, Kåñëadäsa, narrate Çré Caitanya-caritämåta, following in their footsteps.
PURPORT
Çré Caitanya Mahäprabhu wanted to preach the saìkértana movement of love of Kåñëa throughout the entire world, and therefore during His presence He inspired the saìkértana movement. Specifically, He sent Rüpa Gosvämé and Sanätana Gosvämé to Våndävana and Nityänanda to Bengal and personally went to South India. In this way He kindly left the task of preaching His cult in the rest of the world to the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. The members of this Society must always remember that if they stick to the regulative principles and preach sincerely according to the instructions of the äcäryas, surely they will have the profound blessings of Lord Caitanya Mahäprabhu, and their preaching work will be successful everywhere throughout the world.
Thus end the Bhaktivedanta purports to Çré Caitanya-caritämåta, Ädi-lilä, Seventh Chapter, describing Lord Caitanya in five features.” [adi 7.121]
BHAKTA MARKS ; Based on the above, what are the chances for the Mahabhagavat to start his or her new mission in Iskcon
Any NEW takers on that theory?
Amar Puri,
From what I can tell, there is no way that the present structure of Iskcon would allow such a person to act within their temples.
I believe that faithful and highly functioning neophytes and some Madhyams from the West (mostly America) will get together separate from Its-a-con, perhaps in cooperation with both the Indian ritvik yatra and the emergent worldwide “Prabhupadanugas” of Iskcon inc.
I believe they will be the one’s to execute Sankirtana from a foundation of Varnasrama colleges and agrarian communities while using the proper ritvik initiation system. Thus affording them unlimited advancement possibilities, and offering all they meet with a genuine experience of Krsna consciousness.
Pratyatosa das has always held the theory that eventually Its-a-con worldwide will be forced into doing the right thing. That is not to be waited upon, in my opinion.
Hare Krsna
Yes. Indeed, Bhakta Mark says ; ” while using the proper Ritvik Initiation system ” of Srila Prabhupada in His Iskcon World Wide. That is exactly seen in the Instructions of Srila Prabhupada as I pointed out in my comments. It is nice to see that a good personality like yourself agrees to it. That is Iskcon. As Srila Prabhupada says it that it only requires like minded people to push forward the Holy Name of the Lord in order to spread the KC. world wide.
The so called present Iskcon management can carry on their business as long as it is sanctioned by the Lord. We the followers of Srila Prabhupada have nothing to do with the corrupted Iskcon. The real Iskcon is where like minded people try to serve the mission as per the Instructions of the Founder Acaraya Srila Prabhupada SELFLESSLY free from all material desires. That is the Iskcon we belong to not any other Iskcon.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
OM TAT SAT.
When I attempt to sympathize with the mindset of someone who would enter Srila Prabhupada’s temple and instruct a new Bhakta to insert their name into Srila Prabhupada’s pranama mantra, I find it revolting and impossible to do. Incomprehensible really. Not to mention the dozens of other specific and intimate acts of adoration required of one’s “exclusive” disciple.
So when I think of an entire gang of such pseudo acaryas, a powerful syndicated organization madly drunk on the power and prestige and sense gratification that accompanies this shameful ruse, and imagine them giving it all up, I just chuckle somberly and remind myself not to waste my time like that anymore.