Ananda devi dasi, UK: Srila Prabhupada incorporated the organisation named ISKCON as a legal entity. He had already foreseen the future temples, farms, devotees and His position in Sri Chaitanya’s Sankirtana Movement. Not only is Srila Prabhupada the Founder/Acarya, but also the Diksa Guru of ISKCON. In 1966, this position was not questioned.
Srila Prabhupada gathered together the Brahma-Samita, the essence of Vedic literature, the Srimad Bhagavatam authored by Srila Vyasadeva, the Nectar of Devotion and Instruction by Rupa Goswami, the Caitanya-caritamrita by Krsnadasa Kaviraja, and His very own Bhagavad-Gita As It Is, as well as many other Vedic literatures. These are the cream of Vedic literature, not the bread and butter; those He discarded.
As a uniquely empowered potent preacher, Srila Prabhupada created His very own organisation for Him to be the centre, ISKCON. The exclusive worship is the same today as it was back in those days. Srila Prabhupada is directly worshipped as the Diksa Guru as if He was physically present today There has been no change to the daily worship. From Mangala Arati through to Bhagavatam class is all based around Srila Prabhupada’s process of Diksa that He introduced for His ISKCON. In ISKCON this is exactly the definition and meaning of “current link” to the Disciplic Succession.
Whether Srila Prabhupada is “physically present” or not is of no consequence He is the current link in ISKCON. Srila Prabhupada IS the “current link” in ISKCON. There is no difference between Srila Prabhupada, ISKCON, and the sound vibration coming from Him, even though He is not personally present. The potency is never minimized because the vibrator is apparently absent.
Why was there a need to create a Spiritual Institution called ISKCON? What is its function? Why did no other Acarya do this? What effect does the creation of a unique spiritual institution have on the dynamics of Initiation?
The traditional Disciplic Succession as we all know is not based on spiritual institutions, only Srila Bhaktisiddhanta created the Gaudiya Math and the Disciplic Succession carried on into ISKCON via Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada did not operate within Srila Bhaktisiddhanta’s Gaudiya Math. ISKCON was created by Srila Prabhupada so He could be the Diksa Guru in His own right, authorised and empowered by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta and Krsna. That is why ISKCON became so successful.
The examples of the Disciplic Succession before that was to have only one Acarya at a time as the head of the Disciplic Succession. The transcendental knowledge was then handed to the most pure and surrendered soul, whether they physically met or not. The examples in the Disciplic Succession are varied, there is no axiomatic law to follow save and except the line follows the topmost Acarya. Srila Prabhupada called them “Prominent Acharyas”, that there were also many branches and sub-branches that were too numerous to record. So we don’t’ know anything about how they operated.
The story of ISKCON being a totally unique organisation, not at all traditional, means in ISKCON we have traditional and non-traditional spiritual dynamics in play. Srila Prabhupada introduced particular instructions that are ISKCON-specific. Chanting a minimum of 16 rounds a day is one introduction that is ISKCON-specific. There are numerous other instructions. We should all know about them. And they belong to Srila Prabhupada.
The example of Srila Prabhupada creating His own organisation called ISKCON, an altogether separate institution from the Gaudiya Math, gives us the understanding that to operate as a fully empowered Diksa Guru, He must set up His own camp. To operate within the Gaudiya Math for Srila Prabhupada would have been an incompatible situation from a philosophical view. Firstly, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta’s position would have been compromised, relegated and undermined, and a disciple would never do this. Secondly, as an empowered preacher Srila Prabhupada would not have received the co-operation from His godbrothers, and so Srila Prabhupada would also be compromised in His position as Diksa Guru and as a future Founder/Acarya of ISKCON. Thirdly, to constitute a Disciplic Succession link means to create a separate identity from the last link, the Oneness and Difference of Disciplic Succession links. To establish Srila Prabhupada’s Mission separately from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta’s Mission, Srila Prabhupada created ISKCON. He did not merge with the Gaudiya Math, otherwise it would create a paradoxical anomaly in Vaisnavism, which is not possible.
The Disciplic Succession is punctuated by individuals who have humbly demonstrated their own devotional service potency. In fact, the process of devotional service always begins in the service of the devotee who appears in the Disciplic Succession. When we apply this to ISKCON, it is also plain that a Successor in the traditional sense of the law of Disciplic Succession cannot operate within the legal organisation of the ISKCON entity; it’s not compatible.
To effect the law of Disciplic Succession from ISKCON’s point of view would mean the Successor creating His own organisation equivalent to ISKCON and the Gaudiya Math, taking His rightful place in the Disciplic Succession ,no problem. ISKCON still exists and the new Math exists, as does the Gaudiya Math, and we can chose Who to follow. If we want to follow Srila Prabhupada we come to ISKCON. He is the Founder/Acarya, the Diksa Guru, the giver of the process of Diksa specific to ISKCON, and the author and compiler of all the Books of Transcendental Knowledge. In short, He can exclusively claim all devotees as His Disciples that join ISKCON, and the right of a Disciple is to exclusively claim Srila Prabhupada as his Diksa Guru.
For a Diksa Guru to succeed in ISKCON through the process of Disciplic Succession is totally incompatible on so many philosophical, spiritual and etiquette levels. A fully qualified Diksa Guru would never undermine or obstruct His own Spiritual Master’s mission, so a new organisation would have to be created on the strength of His own potency, not from a shared or imitated potency or through sharing Srila Prabhupada’s Books. A Diksa Guru follows in the footsteps of His own Spiritual Master, He does not imitate or steal from His Spiritual Master. This would implicitly mean a disqualification. The two scenarios are mutually exclusive.
Devotees practising initiations within ISKCON today, or at any time, can only be acting in a submissive, subservient position to Srila Prabhupada. If we are to believe they are acting in any other way it means we have compromised and relegated Srila Prabhupada within His own movement, which would be illegitimate. As we all know, Srila Prabhupada never appointed any Diksa Gurus and the GBC have not been empowered to appoint Diksa Gurus.
Back in 1966, Srila Prabhupada knew exactly why He was incorporating an organisation called ISKCON, of which He is the Diksa Guru and Founder/Acarya. He was dictated to by the Paramatma who authorised and empowered Srila Prabhupada as a surrendered and sincere Vaisnava.
At present date we do not have a Successor to Srila Prabhupada and Srila Prabhupada knew all this back then, that the Disciplic Succession law is incompatible with the legal entity called ISKCON, and so initiations can carry on in ISKCON by representatives of the Spiritual Master, Diksa Guru, Founder/Acarya, Maha-bhagavata and Shakti Avesa Avatar, who is none less than Srila Prabhupada.
Does the Disciplic Succession stop with Srila Prabhupada? It’s predicted by Srila Prabhupada that this Hare Krishna Movement will last for 10,000 years and Srila Prabhupada’s Books will be the lawbooks for that duration, and so the Disciplic Succession will last for at least that long. Who knows after that?
The conclusion of transplanting a traditional process called Disciplic Succession for the purpose of Diksa Initiation by a fully qualified Diksa Guru of Uttama-Adhikari status is incompatible into a non-traditional spiritual institution centred around the Founder/Acarya, which already has a fully qualified Diksa Guru, Srila Prabhupada. If within ISKCON, the process of formal initiation is to continue, then the use of representatives of the Acarya is the only way that this can take place.
If it is supposed that the Officiating Acarya process was put into place and authorised for after Srila Prabhupada’s departure, then this would not undermine, relegate or compromise Srila Prabhupada’s position. He would therefore remain in the present tense, the Founder/Acarya and Diksa Guru. This would not contravene the law of Disciplic Succession on any level. Any Diksa Guru wanting to operate outside the entity of ISKCON and branch off would necessarily follow His Spiritual Master’s example, as did Srila Prabhupada. And there are many examples of this in the past.
This scenario is suitable for all disciples of His Divine Grace as there is opportunity for all to operate depending on their surrender and sincerity. As we surrender, so Krishna awards us. Either new members can take formal initiation through the representatives of Srila Prabhupada and serve in ISKCON, or they can find Srila Prabhupada’s disciples that have branched off and are now Diksa Gurus in their own right, and serve under their process of Diksa and worship them in the traditional befitting way in their Branch. In this way there can be no disagreement with the way forward for Diksa Initiation. Everyone is satisfied.
Obviously this is only an outline and there are many supportive quotes and letters to help us fathom how the Disciplic Succession is applicable, where to apply the law of Disciplic Succession and understand why an Officiating Acarya process can be applicable, even with the apparent absence of Srila Prabhupada. The Disciplic Succession’s existence is not evidence or proof that it need be applied dogmatically and the Officiating Acarya’s non-traditional history is not evidence or proof that Srila Prabhupada did not intend this for the purposes of formal initiation within ISKCON after His disappearance. Although the two processes are mutually exclusive, that does not mean they cannot be applied simultaneously where applicable.
Our continued debate on these issues needs to be on an understanding of how to apply these different processes, when they are authorised, where to apply them, and not just argue focusing on one is right and one is wrong. They are both right. How can we apply the law of Disciplic Succession to the legal entity of ISKCON, keeping Srila Prabhupada as the worshipable Diksa Guru, and have other Diksa Gurus within ISKCON? To me there is a conflict of interests for everyone in this scenario. The Officiating Acarya alternative that has been allegedly proposed in the July 9th Letter keeps Srila Prabhupada not only as the worshipable Diksa Guru in ISKCON, but keeps Him in the present tense — not as previous Diksa Guru, as in the case of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta for us ISKCON devotees.
I hope that makes some sense to you, even to the hardliners on both sides. Perhaps we need to take some steps backwards and try and understand where we are coming from, that we are not that well informed and maybe not that well considered on these philosophical issues. There are alot of ramifications that have not been understood about introducing a process that we are not that familiar with. This debate would not have lasted this long if it were just straightforward and fully understood, would it? Srila Prabhupada would have made an evaluation and put us all straight on this matter easily, but we have no one on His level. Let’s keep debating, not arguing, so we represent Srila Prabhupada in a better light instead of just squabbling.
So we can derive two important points in this article:
1. Any founder of any institution must himself be the guru (no sastric reference to prove this point)
2. The author knows very well that there would be no other mahabhagavatas in ISKCON (to recognize one the author must herself be a mahabhagavata. If she is then, she herself is eligible to be a diksha guru).
By the way, now I understand why Madhu Pandit Prabhu registered a society seperate from ISKCON in India.
Dear Srimati Ananda Devi Dasi. Your article is without any doubt an outstanding triumph! I had to keep checking, is this article actually written by a lady? After reading this article I ‘searched’ for other articles you had written on this site and found another five (four that I have already read so far). I had noticed that many were written in around 2009. Why have these not come to my notice before? Every point that you were making is spot on, right on the button. I found myself agreeing with everything you were saying about Guru Tattva especially the aspects of ‘accepted’ and ‘initiated’ the semantics of which I was struggling with.
Dear sister, you articles bring such precision and clarity to the subject of Guru Tattva, everyone should read them as you have clearly been blessed by His Divine Grace to dismantle the chauvinistic and misogynistic preconceptions of those who are trying to exploit the situation for their own purposes.
Please accept my dandavat pranams (albeit at a distance, as is the requirement)
Daso Smi
Sudarsana Das Vanacari
pamho agtACBSP
Well through the factor time i mean by getting the vision of eternity the spiritual succession is keeping going may be get broken as happen with the SRIMAD BHAGAVAD GITA but nobody can stop the supreme will of Krsna by restoring the parampara at the right time. SRILA PRABHUPADA is whoever spread the cream of the divine SRIMAD BHAGAVATAM around all over the world in the pure goodness platform so SRILA BHAKTISIDDHANTA SARASVATI THAKUR, SRILA BHAKTIVINODA THAKUR ABHAYA CARANARAVINDA SWAMI are all prabhupadas, unfortunately all these prabhupadas become manifested in saguna platform to teach us every thousand years that’s every blue moon, it’s not easily available a SRILA PRABHUPADA in saguna elements through vapu seva but it’s going eternally in vani seva through the nirguna platform. Within the time of the golden age in this kali yuga so many good maha rati great saintly warriors with mystic powers will be manifested on this planet for a short period of time, the daivi varnasrama dharma is completely established and everyone is following the vedic culture but alot of big demons will take birth too, so our problems at the present moment are not so heavy yet even if we can see in our society almost all the citizens are full of like and dislike i do not like your false ego and they don’t like our false ego because that’s born from the refusal to serve Krsna through jivasya mohan aham mameti, and although everyone is trying to hide their ridiculous bodily concept of life they become always victim of their fake reflection by becoming more ridiculous you already born alone die alone with a lot of troubles to overcome now jara is at the stage door waiting to let you know that you already spoiled all the pious activities by departing from this world with empty hands just because of this refusal body machine not engaged in the freedom sat service of the disciplic succession.
People get more disliked through i and mine trapped in the miserable bodily concept of life, the disciplic succession can’t never stop until people are thirsty for it. Krsna also says yada yada he dharmasya glanir, HE comes when there are serious disorders about the guru parampara succession because a lot of jivas are waiting to get connected with the disciplic succession and Krsna already arranged to make all the world full of prabhupada great pure preachers soldiers, it’s just a question of time once one is properly situated samyag vyavasito hi sah he must be considered still a sadhur eva sa mantavyah in the disciplic succession.
Of course one must keep serving because all the karmis are swearing to the new daily three gunas challenges mentally physically and verbally because they are not engaged in the service of SRI SRI GURU GAURANGA and the only purpose of this bonus in the human form of life is to find the real reflection svarupa murti by practicing ahaituki apratihata constant and unmotivated service to SRILA PRABHUPADA, this is the only way to depart from this temporary world fully connected with the disciplic succession and not with empty hands through janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi-duhkha dosanudarsanam
agtSP ys haribol
Does the Disciplic Succession stop with Srila Prabhupada?
As the author writes further in the article ;
” It’s predicted by Srila Prabhupada that this Hare Krishna Movement will last for 10,000 years and Srila Prabhupada’s Books will be the lawbooks for that duration, and so the Disciplic Succession will last for at least that long. Who knows after that ?
To support the above comments, we find in the cc. adi 7.171 ;
PURPORT
” Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu wanted to preach the sankirtana movement of love of Krsna throughout the entire world, and therefore during His presence He inspired the sankirtana movement. Specifically, He sent Rupa Gosvami and Sanatana Gosvami to Vrndavana and Nityananda to Bengal and personally went to South India. In this way He kindly left the task of preaching His cult in the rest of the world to the International Society for Krishna Consciousness.
The members of this Society must always remember that if they stick to the regulative principles and preach sincerely according to the instructions of the acaryas, surely they will have the profound blessings of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and their preaching work will be successful everywhere throughout the world.
Thus end the Bhaktivedanta purports to Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila, Seventh Chapter, describing Lord Caitanya in five features. ” )
Therefore, the author certainly knows very well that there would be no other mahabhagavatas in ISKCON because the author learn it and hear from HDG. Srila Prabhupada’s VANI.
Is this not a FACT, Krishna das ?
Does it look like this Krishna das who writes such non sense comments ignorantly as it appears, hear from Srila Prabhupada’s VANI ?
or
Does Krishna das hear from some body else who defy the ORDER of HDG. and thus, have no knowledge at all of Srila Prabhupada’s VANI ?
Only Krishna das can answer these question.
Hari BOL.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Mataji Ananta Devi Prabhu,who are those Diksha Gurus outside Iskcon that you are referring? And altohugh you are correct in must of what you said here,there are some Grey areas,aslso,but i do apppreciate your organized intentions. On more observation of mine is that you said ” that two things are incompatible,”Philosophically”. It is true,but it is not only Philosophical,but of VAISHNAVA TRANSGRESSIONS” TO BECOME ACHARYA IN THE PRESENCE OF YOUR SPIRITUAL MASTER,AND WITHOUT THE QUALIFICATION EVEN,OF STARTING YOUR OWN INSTITUTION . “IF YOU THINK THAT YOU ARE A GURU,THEN,YOU SHOULD START YOUR OWN MOVEMENT” S.P.
William Prabhu, where do you read this line in the article when you say ; ” who are those Diksha Gurus outside Iskcon that you are referring ?
Also what are some Grey areas also in the article you are referring to ?
Thanks.
Hari BOL. AGTSP.
Amar Puri,it was on Pharagraph #19,were it said that “You can find a Diksha Guru outside of Iskcon,initiating on their own rights”?.
Paragraph #11 points at “Successor Acharyas,creating an organization equivalent to Iskcon”. She said,”No problem”. My point is that there are no successor Acharyas planed or recommended.The idea of ‘If you think you are a pure devotee,you should start your own movement”. This statement by Srila Prabhupada is more of a Sarcasm or the ridiculous ideas of becoming Acharya,within the Spiritual Master’s society. That’s one Gray area. Mataji wrote an excellent piece anyway.
Krsna Das,can you quote reference to ” It takes a Mahabhagavata to know another Mahabhagavata” ?It sounds great,but it will be generous that you direct us to that statement.
Also,can you be more specific on the “Reasons”,why MP started his own Iskcon programs?
William Prabhu ; Is this the paragraph 19 you are referring to particularly this following writing therein :
” ………… Either new members can take formal initiation through the representatives of Srila Prabhupada and serve in ISKCON, or they can find Srila Prabhupada’s disciples that have branched off and are now Diksa Gurus in their own right, and serve under their process of Diksa and worship them in the traditional befitting way in their Branch. In this way there can be no disagreement with the way forward for Diksa Initiation. In this way there can be no disagreement with the way forward for Diksa Initiation. … ”
As written ( …. ….. or they can find Srila Prabhupada’s disciples that have branched off and are now Diksa Gurus in their own right, and serve under their process of Diksa and worship them in the traditional befitting way in their Branch…… ) the writer indeed creates the grey area in the article.
Certainly as it appears that their Branch out does not appear as an Independent Maths but it is still IDENTIFIABLE with the Srila Prabhupada’s Iskcon.
That is exactly where the Problem lies in order to cheat innocent people and cash on to the name of Srila Prabhupada from their new followers and thus, their cheating business continues even IF these gurus out side Iskcon as the writer says are conducting their cheating guru business.
Is that the grey area you are referring to as well, William Prabhu or is there something else ?
If it is the same, then, Yes I agree with it.
Thanks William Prabhu for bringing up very important piece of discussion.
Hari BOL. AGTSP.
Yes,Amar Puri Prabhu,that devotees Lady,Ananda dasi,is mostly right on her presentation,i just wanted to make a few observations,hoping that i will not minimize her nice realizations.
William Prabhu, the meaning of MPD is embedded in the sentence. Anyway I will expand it. Registering a new society ensured that he became the sakshad dharitvena diksha guru (although rubber stamping all as Prabhupada’s disciples) whom everyone considers as infallible. Can we not see the environment in Bangalore where people accept him unquestionably?
Well,krsna das prabhu,when you say “PEOPLE” ,you are referring to a very large Sanga and extended to the amazing support of the larger community of Bangalore. It could only be fare to conduct a survey,among the members and larger constituency of life members and others. We can not refer to individuals as people only. They are not less capable of seen than us.
First initiation. Then second. Then temple president. Then GBC or Swami, or both. Then “Guru.” And finally be Krishna. In this way, they are only increasing their envy for Srila Prabhupada. They want to displace Srila Prabhupada and become the centre. Srila Prabhupada is the crown jewel of Krishna´s pastimes and he started the festival of chariots three of them in New York, and they the Kali chelas, pull down three skyscrapers, the twin towers and the building 7, as a DEMONStration of power, but what they don´t know is that the seed of Krishna consciousness is planted very deep in the human society. During the times of preaching of Srila Prabhupada in United States, there were an over production of food, and the rivers become white because farmers were throwing the milk and the wheat within the rivers to maintain its prices. By that the President Kennedy made the famous Alliance for Progress, and so he did send millions of tons of milk, wheat, and cheese to the Latin American countries for a decade.