A Response to Balavidya Prabhu’s article, Transcendental ISKCON and Twilight ISKCON. Excellent! Excellent! Excellent! This wonderful article and accurate analyses gives new hope and inspiration to all those who have over the years been rejected by corporate ISKCON, those who have been marginalised, abused, broken, silenced, repressed, banned and kicked out. And believe me, there are many such sincere followers of Srila Prabhupada. More are joining that swelling ocean of disenfranchised devotees day by day.
Let us therefore focus on the ‘Transcendental ISKCON’, which includes all those dedicated followers of Srila Prabhupada mentioned above along with those who, by their own will and conscience, don’t take part in the corporate ‘Twilight ISKCON’. This ‘Twilight ISKCON’ may have material assets and powers but it has not much spiritual standing left. It will, in time, dwindle away like a dead branch on a tree or mutate into some branch of Hindu dharma. Srila Prabhupada has warned us not to become an organized religion like the Christian church. This echoes his Spiritual Master’s voice, who wrote in his famous Putana article in 1930:
“The idea of an organized church in an intelligible form, indeed, marks the close of the living spiritual movement. The great ecclesiastical establishments are the dikes and the dams to retain the current that cannot be held by any such contrivances. They, indeed, indicate a desire on the part of the masses to exploit a spiritual movement for their own purpose. They also unmistakably indicate the end of the absolute and unconventional guidance of the bona-fide spiritual teacher.”
Thank you, Balavidya Prabhu, for reminding us that we are part of Srila Prabhupada’s ‘Transcendental ISKCON’.
These are nice writings.
Fortunately between Prabhupada anugas is simultaneous oneness and difference .
Once a Prabhu replied the following:
question: What does Srila Prabhupada’s statement mean TODAY : ” ISKCON is my body” ?
Prabhu:
“Srila Prabhupada’s ISKCON soceity, the one he founded, is the external manifestation of his spiritual potency in a “physical” form – temples, devotees etc.
Unfortunately, after his departure, what we have now is just a dead body with no life, since no Srila Prabhupada is there – he exsits only in name to attract people. Yes, ISKCON today attracts people because people attracted to Srila Prabhupada, but AFTER that his attraction to Srila Prabhupada dissapears and is replaced with attraction for profit, adoration and distinction.
Nobody even cares what Srila Prabhupada’s orders are – I mean what big sin are devotees doing that they need to be attacked – they are simply presenting a document with present VERBATIM Srila Prabhupada’s written orders ! “
This statement by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Prabhupada, when I first read it many years ago ”knocked my for six” and I had to read it over and over again, (and I invite our readers to do the same!). Have the devotees who are planning to build a $100,000,000.00 Temple, read this statement…..?
“The idea of an organised church in an intelligible form, indeed, marks the close of the living spiritual movement. The great ecclesiastical establishments are the dykes and dams to retain the current that cannot be held by any such contrivances. They, indeed, indicate on the part of the masses to exploit a spiritual movement for their own purpose. They also unmistakably indicate the end of the absolute and unconventional guidance of the bona-fide spiritual teacher”
People who are attracted to opulent temple do not care about Guru Tattva, or Maha Mantra so what is the ‘rationale’ for building such an thing. Temple is OK but it should small with BIG Kirtana Hall, this would be more pleasing to Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. Better to build Vedic Diorama Museums as these will EDUCATE people to Krishna Consciousness NOT SUBJEGATE people with vulgar opulence. This is “AISHWARYA” which is Rasa Bhas. Vrndavan lila is not “AISHWARYA”.
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
Dear Sudarsana prabhu,
thanks for the very interesting post. I have never read this quote from Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Maharaja. As it “knocked you for a 6” it has certainly caused me to re read it many times too. It makes sense.
It has left me wondering, why then did Srila Prabhupada encourage the building of so many opulent and beautiful temples all around the world. What are your thoughts about that?
I’m looking forward to hearing your answer prabhu as I am genuinely confused with the contradiction.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada and all Vaisnava devotees of the Lord !!
Sundarananda das: It has left me wondering, why then did Srila Prabhupada encourage the building of so many opulent and beautiful temples all around the world. What are your thoughts about that?
Note: Srila Prabhupada was always concerned about the comforts of his disciples so they can be accommodated to further their spiritual well-being. Hence – so many temples all over the world. Plus to invite others to preach Krsna Consciousness to them. Utility is the Principle: Preaching is the Essence.
70-11-18. Letter: Yamuna
I have already written to Gurudasa to try for one very nice Temple in Vrndavana which is in good repair. IF WE CAN ESTABLISH ONE CENTER THERE IT WILL BE VERY, VERY NICE. OUR FOREIGN DEVOTEES MUST HAVE ONE VERY NICE PLACE IN VRNDAVANA WHERE THEY MAY STAY WHILE VISITING THERE AND I THINK THIS PALACE OF THE MAHARAJA OF BHARATAPUR IS JUST RIGHT FOR US.
770415rc.bom Conversations
Prabhupada: Bring. I want that at least at the weekend respectable gentlemen come here, live here, try to understand the philosophy, and if possible render some service. That’s all. We have got now nice building. Every room is air conditioned. Not that you have to go to the jungle. (laughs)
Mr. Rajda: No, it’s a nice atmosphere.
Prabhupada: FOR US, WE CAN LIVE UNDERNEATH A TREE. BUT IF I WOULD HAVE LIVED UNDERNEATH A TREE, YOU WOULD NOT HAVE COME. (LAUGHTER) THEREFORE THIS BUILDING IS REQUIRED. So give them, one each, this magazine, latest edition. Here is. Mr. Rajda, Mr. Parik. Rajda’s copy is in the red binding? That’s it. No. Give him. Give him.
720404SB.MEL Lectures
SO THEREFORE WE HAVE TO ACCEPT EVERYTHING: NIRBANDHE KRSNA-SAMBANDHE. WE CAN ACCEPT ALL THIS MATERIAL ADVANCEMENT IN RELATIONSHIP WITH KRSNA. WE CAN ACCEPT A TAPE RECORDER. THIS IS MATERIAL ADVANCEMENT. BUT WE CAN USE IT FOR KRSNA. WE TAKE THE TYPEWRITER, BUT WE USE IT FOR KRSNA. WE TAKE A CAR–WE USE IT FOR KRSNA. OTHERWISE WE DON’T WANT. WHAT IS THE USE OF CAR? WE CAN WALK. BUT IF FOR KRSNA’S SAKE IF IT IS WANTED SUPPOSE WE ARE GOING TO PREACH SOMEWHERE, AND IF YOU SAY, “OH, THIS IS MATERIAL, MAYA. WHY SHALL I TAKE IT? I SHALL GO, WALK,” THIS IS NONSENSE. You take advantage. Sometimes they criticize that “You criticize material advancement. Why do you take car? Why do you take this?” No, we can take everything because we see everything in relationship, Krsna. This combination of matter, that is all right. But it is Krsna’s matter. Bhumir apo analo vayuh.
Dear Sundarananda Prabhu.
In answer to your question……
“It has left me wondering why then did Srila Prabhupada encourage the building of so many opulent and beautiful temples around the world. What are your thoughts about that? I am looking forward to hearing your answer prabhu as I am genuinely confused with the contradiction.
There are so many elements to this that there is no simple answer! One observation is that the vast majority of these “opulent and beautiful” temples are inhabited by persons who generally have no interest in Guru Tattva or Maha Mantra and everything exists on some external platform of sentimentality and “cultural tradition”. But at the same time in the beginning stages of spiritual development they provide a foundation (ie. rules and regulations, rituals, basics of sadhana bhakti) for the aspiring bhakta to progress to the more advanced stages as the internal consciousness becomes more prominent and bhakti becomes more spontaneous.
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati preferred to rent temple premises rather than purchase property, as the latter became quite a headache with arguments and fights over rooms etc. I don’t see that there is any contradiction however as circumstances were quite different. There is NO fault that can be attributed to Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada or Srila Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada with regards to the “failure” of Gaudiya Math and ISKCON as this is all the result of failure of OTHERS who have corrupted the sampradaya. Real SUCCESS comes from Guru Tattva and Maha Mantra and the spreading of the original transcendental literatures of Srila Prabhupada and previous Acharyas.
In Western countries if you want to attract people (other than Hindu sentimentalists) you have to build Vedic Diorama Museums and just charge very small fee (this is Madhukari on a huge scale) thousands of people, schools, special interest groups, bus tours etc. If you wear “devotional cloth” you will scare people away WHAT IS THE POINT OF THAT? Vedic Diorama Museum is the ENGINE! This and Restaurant and
Gift Shop. If the local temple is a “MAUSOLEUM” empty, WHY have a restaurant and gift shop THERE? THIS IS PURE MADNESS!
How can you distribute books to every town and village, if the country (Australia) is almost the size of USA and petrol is $1.75 a litre? Build a HUGE temple? I don’t think so! Well there’s just a few thoughts anyway Prabhu. This is a topic that is almost endless in scope, so I’ll just have to leave it there for now.
Your humble servant
Sudarsana
“…We recommend that as soon as money accumulates in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, fifty per cent of it should be invested in printing books, and fifty per cent for expenditures, especially in establishing centers all over the world. The managers of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement should be extremely cautious in regard to this point. Otherwise money will be the cause of lamentation, illusion, fear, anger, material attachment, material poverty, and unnecessary hard work.
When I was alone in Vṛndāvana, I never attempted to construct maṭhās or temples; rather, I was fully satisfied with the small amount of money I could gather by selling Back to Godhead, and thus I would provide for myself and also print the literature. When I went to foreign countries, I lived according to the same principle, but when Europeans and Americans began to give money profusely, I started temples and Deity worship. The same principle should still be followed.
Whatever money is collected should be spent for Kṛṣṇa, and not a farthing for sense gratification. This is the Bhāgavata principle.” ( SB.7.13.34. Purport )
Dear Mahesh Raja Prabhu.
The many letters Srila Prabhupada wrote should be taken with a “pinch of salt” as many are based on TIME, PLACE, and CIRCUMSTANCE. Often whatever was the case over 50 years ago IS NOT RELEVANT today! The Vrindaban Temple Srila Prabhupada is refering…..”IF WE CAN ESTABLISH TEMPLE THERE IT WOULD BE VERY NICE…………..etc, etc” was the Temple where He was murdered!”
In many letters Srila Prabhupada said DIFFERENT things to different people. To some He said they should stay single and to others to said that they should marry! These letters are not a “one size fits all” and Srila Prabhupada didn’t want them used for this purpose.
In the 1980’s I helped Visnu Murti Prabhu (Vanipedia etc) who I think is still living in Europe, to compile Srila Prabhupada’s letters which was a photocopied book ‘compiled’ on different subjects. Some were general instructions and some were specific to the person He was writing to. If we want to get the best results we have to preach according to TIME, PLACE AND CIRCUMSTANCE. The point beying that even though the building in Vrndavan “is very nice ” that isn’t relevant to today as the administration is TOXIC.
Many of these letters which are continually beying quoted indicate a severe lack of understanding as to what is required in this 21st century. Even though practically all of these structures have been HYJACKED by rascals and fools we CONTINUE TO PERSUE THIS NONSENSICAL AGENDA OF BIGGER AND BIGGER TEMPLE CONSTRUCTION! THIS IS MADNESS!
YHS
Sudarsana
Sudarsana Das Vanacari : If we want to get the best results we have to preach according to TIME, PLACE AND CIRCUMSTANCE. The point beying that even though the building in Vrndavan “is very nice ” that isn’t relevant to today as the administration is TOXIC.
Mahesh: this I agree. I simply wanted to point out that there was no contradiction to what Srila Prabhupada did AT THAT TIME. That’s all. These Anti Ritvik goons have usurped the properties for their MONEY SCREWING AND SLAVERY MAKING.
There is different prescription for all the ages. Kali-yuga the prescription is sankiratana. Temple worship was prescribed in Dvapara Yuga:
SB 7.14.16 P Ideal Family Life
The entire Vedic civilization aims at satisfying the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This was possible in Satya-yuga by meditation upon the Supreme Lord within the core of one’s heart and in Treta-yuga by the performance of costly yajnas. THE SAME GOAL COULD BE ACHIEVED IN DVAPARA-YUGA BY WORSHIP OF THE LORD IN THE TEMPLE, AND IN THIS AGE OF KALI ONE CAN ACHIEVE THE SAME GOAL BY PERFORMING SANKIRTANA-YAJNA.
Sudarsana Das Vanacari says: ” In the 1980′s I helped Visnu Murti Prabhu (Vanipedia etc) who I think is still living in Europe, to compile Srila Prabhupada’s letters which was a photocopied book ‘compiled’ on different subjects. Some were general instructions and some were specific to the person He was writing to ……..”
Prabhu Sudarsana Das Vanacari, my questions are ;
1. Are you saying that the general and the particular or specific instructions to the persons on different subjects by HDG Srila Prabhupada gave in His letters NOT valid any more in this time ?
2. Is that the reason you suggest that we have to preach according to TIME, PLACE AND CIRCUMSTANCE ?
3. What kind of a contradiction do you in the Instructions ( the General and the Specific ) of Srila Prabhupada letters for which you suggest to preach according to time, place and circumstances ?
Of course, we can understand that how the Temple management and administration can be very TOXIC as we see in the present Temples ( Big or Small ) under the management and administration of Iskcon GBC and the Presidents.
However that does not effect to the serious and sincere followers of the Devotees of HDG. Srila Prabhupada to perform the Sankirtana-Yajna world wide.
Hari BOL. AGTSP.
Dear Sriman Amar Puri Das.
If I may try to clarify the questions that you are asking…
1. Srila Prabhupada’s letters are not purports. General instructions (ei those which are NOT person/time/place/and circumstance specific) are as the name suggests. Those instructions which ARE meant for a particular person/time/place/and circumstance MAY/OR MAY NOT BE relevant to ANOTHER DIFFERENT particular person/time/place/and circumstance. As each of those (4) elements are subject to CHANGE therefore “form follows function” and preaching solutions have to be adjusted to those elements accordingly.
2. I am simply REPEATING Srila Prabhupada’s instruction that “We have to preach according to time, place and circumstance”.
3. If the instruction IS person/time/place/or circumstance specific then one MAY/OR MAY NOT have to apply a DIFFERENT solution (based upon the teachings of His Divine Grace and previous Acharyas) by utilizing Srila Prabhupada’s instruction (2) to preach accordingly.
I hope my feeble attempt to answer your question has gone someway towards further clarification.
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
Thank you Prabhu Sudarsana Das Vanacari for your answers to my questions which are well taken and much appreciated.
Hari BOL.
YS……. Amar Puri.
Sundarananda das: It has left me wondering, why then did Srila Prabhupada encourage the building of so many opulent and beautiful temples all around the world. What are your thoughts about that?
Srila Prabhupada, as the Maha Bhagavat Acarya, simply showered his mercy indiscriminately, just as the rain also falls on barren ground. If any fallen conditioned soul would take even a fraction of that mercy, then they are benefited. One poor man brought a toilet roll to the Matchless Gifts temple and Prabhupada said, see his devotional service has begun. Some surrender wealth or other assets, but the acarya expertly uses all in Krsna’s service, so never any loss or diminution! Just like Krsna, he does not discriminate, but is favorable to those who accept his mercy rain.
In his Govinda Bhasya commentary on Vedanta, Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana explains>>
Sutra 11.1.36 “Such partiality to His devotees is reasonable in the Lord, and is observed also in the scriptures”
Commentary by Srila Baladeva…
“The special grace shown by the Lord to His devotees is no doubt ‘partiality’, but the Lord, the kind lover of His devotees, has such ‘partiality’, and it is reasonable that it should be so. It is the natural inherent power of the Lord to show forth His grace on those who have Bhakti and devotion for Him…..Nor does this conflict with the statement that the Lord is free from partiality, for this sort of ‘partiality’ to His devotees, instead of being a fault in the Lord, has been praised in the scriptures as adding to His glory. The scripture says that this is the highest jewel among the perfections of the Lord, this grace on His devotees. If the Lord had not this quality of showing special grace, then all his other attributes, however great, would not have been attractive to mankind and would not have evoked devotion and love towards Him. This shows the reasonableness of the existence of this ‘partiality’ in the Lord. Not only is this reasonable, but the revelation also declare it…
Mundaka Upanisad 111.11.3 “This Lord cannot be gained by dissertations devoid of devotion, nor by keen intellect, nor by hearing. He is gained only by him whom the Lord chooses. To him this Self reveals His form.
Also refer Bhagavad-gita 7-17 and 9-29. So everything is reconciled in the acintya-bheda nature of Krsna, and His pure devotee displays the same quality of impartiality, but partial to those accept his mercy.
Your sincere street sweeper,
Balaram das.
Dear Balaram prabhu,
thanks for your kind and considerate response.
My question was in regard to Sudarsana Das Vancari’s comments which I will paste below. He quotes Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja as follows:
“The idea of an organised church in an intelligible form, indeed, marks the close of the living spiritual movement. The great ecclesiastical establishments are the dykes and dams to retain the current that cannot be held by any such contrivances. They, indeed, indicate on the part of the masses to exploit a spiritual movement for their own purpose. They also unmistakably indicate the end of the absolute and unconventional guidance of the bona-fide spiritual teacher”
In Sudarsana’s comments he says:
People who are attracted to opulent temple do not care about Guru Tattva, or Maha Mantra so what is the ‘rationale’ for building such an thing. Temple is OK but it should small with BIG Kirtana Hall, this would be more pleasing to Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. Better to build Vedic Diorama Museums as these will EDUCATE people to Krishna Consciousness NOT SUBJEGATE people with vulgar opulence. This is “AISHWARYA” which is Rasa Bhas. Vrndavan lila is not “AISHWARYA”.
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
Therefore I asked the question:
It has left me wondering, why then did Srila Prabhupada encourage the building of so many opulent and beautiful temples all around the world. What are your thoughts about that?
I’m looking forward to hearing your answer prabhu as I am genuinely confused with the contradiction.
Sudarsana as far as I understood his comments, seems to think the building of opulent temples is unnecessary and that diorama museums are more effective preaching.
His comments and the quote from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja seem to be at odds with Srila Prabhupadas building and encouragement of opulent temples.
I appreciate your considered and broad minded point of view prabhu.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada and all Vaisnava devotess of the Lord !!
Dear Sundarananda Prabhu, yes sometimes it appears there may be a contradiction, but Srila Prabhupada always emphasised his priority that his (original) BOOKS ARE THE BASIS and PREACHING IS THE ESSENCE. That’s how he started ISKCON and his sincere disciples followed in his footsteps.
As a result of the preaching work, Laxmidevi bestowed sufficient mercy to enable us to open various temples or preaching centres around the world. This of course allowed us to attract more conditioned souls to Krsna and also served to regulate our sadhana by the practice of deity worship.
In spite of this, Srila Prabhupada never ordered large opulent temples to be built, and was always satisfied with the devotion, cleanliness and regulation displayed by his disciples, even in very humble premises. In Sydney 1971 and Melbourne 1972, Srila Prabhupada at first installed our beloved Radha-Gopinath and Radha-Vallabha in very simple rented houses, as he did in many places around the world. Of course as our situations improved we were able to provide suitable residences befitting Their Lordships. As long as his books were being distributed, everything followed, so the temples were a result of the preaching work and whenever large donations came we were able to further glorify Their Lordships with appropriate opulence. Srila Prabhupada’s desire for the Mayapur Temple of Vedic Understanding was evidence of this.
We must remember that Srila Bhaktisiddhanta also established 64 Maths, so in spite of the above quote in 1930, he wasn’t against the establishment of temples, however when he saw the infighting and over-lording he said better to close the temples, sell the marble and print books. One might say “history repeating itself”!
Yhs,
Balaram das.