Devotees are generally attracted by the narratives of the pastimes of the Lord, and even though they do not prosecute austerities or meditation, this very process of hearing attentively about the pastimes of the Lord will endow them with innumerable benefits, such as wealth, fame, longevity and other desirable aims of life. [SB3.19.38]
Chart showing average life span expectancy in various world countries.
Citation: Disabled World News – How long will I live for is a chart and picture graph of male and female life span expectant averages by country and average age to death: http://www.disabled-world.com/calculators-charts/life-expectancy-statistics.php#ixzz2RT5ei6zb
France and Italy are in the longest life expectancy category. Is it because they know that in order to digest meat properly, you have to drink alcohol? (Wine with every meal)
(SB 4.27.11 Purport)
According Wikipedia, Italy and France are not so much heavy drinkers. They might indulge in lots of winegrowing for business reason, but refrain from excessive alcohol consumption.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption
List of countries by alcohol consumption
1.Moldova, 2.Czech Republic, 3.Hungary, 4.Russia, 5.Ukraine, 6.Estonia, 7.Andorra, 8.Romania, 9.Slovenia, 10.Belarus, 11.Croatia, 12.Lithuania, 13.South Korea, 14.Portugal, 15.Ireland……..57.USA
Absolon Rousseau says: 1.Moldova, 2.Czech Republic, 3.Hungary, 4.Russia, 5.Ukraine, 6.Estonia, 7.Andorra, 8.Romania, 9.Slovenia, 10.Belarus, 11.Croatia, 12.Lithuania, 13.South Korea, 14.Portugal, 15.Ireland…57.USA
So, where do France and Italy place on the above list?
If you sort by wine consumption, they come in #2 and #4 respectively: 1. Luxembourg, 2. France, 3. Portugal, 4. Italy, 5. Croatia…
Prabhupada:
(Conversation at Airport–October 26, 1973, Bombay)
Right, according this apportionment Italians and French drink more wine than others (because wine grows best in these countries) – on average 14 gallons per year and capita.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/foo_win_con-food-wine-consumption
This doesn’t say they are heavy drinkers, it is approx one glass of wine daily.
Other countries consume same amount or even more of high percentage alcohol…..
So lots of awareness training is ahead.
Meanwhile many “Krishna devotees” are not living very long lives. One devotee just wrote to tell me he has been diagnosed with kidney cancer, and he is younger than I am. This disease, especially in this location, is often fatal.
There just seems to be an epidemic of devotees who are not living much past 60, if they get to 60. I just found out that Jayapataka is 4 months younger than I am, and he looks like a train wreck. I am not looking that young myself mind you, but at least I am not in a wheelchair drooling all over myself at this point. Satsvarupa is also in a wheelchair and so on and so forth.
Something is wrong here.
I would say they cause of illness and death is most likely “broken hearts” over the mess ISKCON has become. The good news is that Krishna will give all the sincere people a new chance to develop their Krishna consciousness, and continue on the road back to Godhead. As for the people who caused the mess, well lets say their karma is not too bright.
I am almost certain if we did a survey on “devotee health and death” in 2013, it would look like a city that had been hit by the plague, and its surprising to me not many people either notice or care about this issue. ys pd
Puranjana das says: I am almost certain if we did a survey on “devotee health and death” in 2013, it would look like a city that had been hit by the plague, and its surprising to me not many people either notice or care about this issue.
Good point.
It seems that many of ISKCON’s “grand-disciples” are becoming more and more reluctant to reveal who their initiating “guru” is. Why? Because some of their “gurus” have left their bodies inauspiciously? Because some of their “gurus” are beginning to look like death warmed over?
By the way, the oldest living American, Jeralean Talley, 113, has been living in Michigan since 1935:
http://on.freep.com/10J6ZRG
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/03/jeralean-talley-oldest-american_n_3008845.html
Also of possible interest: Puranjana Prabhu and I are both from Michigan, were both initiated in person by Srila Prabhupada on 7/17/1971 (3 lucky sevens), and he gave both of us very unique spiritual names which have nothing to do with our karmi names.
Puranjana das says:
26. April 2013 at 4:07 pm
“There just seems to be an epidemic of devotees who are not living much past 60, if they get to 60.
Something is wrong here. I would say they cause of illness and death is most likely “broken hearts” over the mess ISKCON has become. ”
===V===
Let us assure you Puranjana dasa, it is not because they are being broken hearted over the mess Iskcon has become. Nope. There is definitely disappointment in how Iskcon has turned out but not likely that is the cause of their death. Most likely, the cause of death is just growing old and dying. It is the environment we live in, Puranjana dasa. Its the air we breath. It is polluted. The water we drink is contaminated. The the food we eat is poisoned etc. etc. After passing 50 yrs, we should consider ourselves to be on borrowed time.
Quote — “Lecture on BG 1.28-29 — London, July 22, 1973:
If we are serious of being transferred to the loka, to the place, where Krsna is, then we have to train up the mind so nicely that at the time of death I can remember Krsna. Therefore one great king, Kulasekhara, he is praying to Krsna, krsna tvadiya pada-pankaja… What is that verse? Tvadiya, krsna tvadiya pada-pankaja (MM 33). I am just forgetting. The idea is, Kulasekhara, King Kulasekhara is praying to Krsna, adyaiva visatu me manasa-raja-hamsah. Adyaiva. Prana-prayana-samaye kapha-vata-pittaih smaranam kutas te. He is praying, “Krsna, I am now in good health. So kindly award me death immediately.” Adyaiva. “Immediately, so that my mind, who is just like a swan, he can take pleasure by entering into stem of Your lotus flower feet.” Krsna’s feet is always compared with lotus flower, and the lotus flower has got a stem. And the swans, they take pleasure being entangled with that stem. They go and dive into the water. This is their very good sporting.
So he is taking that sporting, he is comparing his mind as the raja-hamsa. “So as the raja-hamsa takes pleasure by entangling him in the stem of the lotus flower, similarly Your lotus feet, there is a stem. So my mind, which may be compared with raja-hamsa, let it be entangled now, immediately. Otherwise I do not know.” Prana-prayana-samaye kapha-vata-pittaih. “When everything bodily function will be mixed up, kapha-vata-pittaih, ‘ghan ghan,’ there will be some sound, how I will be able to remembering your lotus feet? So let me die immediately, immediately. Now I am quite fit. Otherwise I may not be able.” This is the point.
The mind should be kept in healthy condition. Samjña. Therefore one who dies with full sense remembering Krsna, oh, he is successful. In Bengali it is said, bhajana kara sadhana kara murti yanre haya. (?) You may be very great devotee. That’s all right. But it will be tested at the time of your death, how you remember Krsna. That will be the test examination. At the time of death, if we forget, if we become parrotlike…
Just like parrot, he chants also, “Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna.” But when the cat catches the neck, “Kanh! Kanh! Kanh!” No more Krsna. No more Krsna. So artificial practice will not help us. Then “Khan, khan.” That kapha-pitta-vataih, kanthavarodhana-vidhau smaranam kutas te (MM 33).”
As for Iskcon being in a mess take note it is evolving and adapting. They started with the changes to Srila Prabhupada’s books, came up with their Iskcons ‘laws’ etc. etc. etc. and they are now working on guru and initiation. Read their yearly resolutions. Its a window to their thinking and working plans.
Good policies or bad but that BOOK CHANGING policy of theirs is a BIG NO! NO!. That policy should be condemned without mercy and have it removed from their agenda.
Iskcon, the translated books, the devotional practice, the regulative principles and the chanting of the HARE KRSNA maha mantra etc. is that boat that Srila Prabhupada gave us to sail on out from this ocean of material universe.
Its just that we have some questionable captains sailing it.
Quote — ” SB 5.8.30, Purport:
It is significant that Maharaja Bharata, by the grace of Vasudeva, remembered his past life. He did not waste a moment; he returned to Pulaha-asrama to the village known as Salagrama. Association is very meaningful; therefore ISKCON tries to perfect one who enters the society. The members of this society should always remember that the society is not like a free hotel. All the members should be very careful to execute their spiritual duties so that whoever comes will automatically become a devotee and will be able to return back to Godhead in this very life. Although Bharata Maharaja acquired the body of a deer, he again left his hearth and home, in this case the Mountain Kalañjara. No one should be captivated by his birthplace and family; one should take shelter of the association of devotees and cultivate Krsna consciousness.”
Hopefully, the next generation of Iskcon leaders will learn from the mistakes of the current leaders and take proper steps to do the right thing – harmoniously, strictly, sincerely and seriously following the instructions or directions, of Srila Prabhupada. NO HIPOCRISY.
And when we say Srila Prabhupada’s instructions we are not referring to that ‘RITVIK’ thing that you and the ritvik boys are drumming about. Sorry, but that ritvik thing is absolutely BOGUS. And you know it.
So, there you have it, Puranjana Dasa. Its no mystery. As for your good self you may have less than five years left. Who knows. Think about it. As there is Birth, Death is certain it is said and you for certain know that. Just that one does not know when it will happen.
Quote — ” Lecture on BG 1.26-27 — London, July 21, 1973:
You are under the clutches of maya. you have no independence. Neither anyone has got any independence to save you. That is not possible. The same example as I gave sometimes, that you learn how to drive aeroplane. So you go high in the sky. But if you are in danger, no other aeroplane can help you. You are finished. Therefore you must be a very careful pilot to take care of yourself. Similarly, in this material world everyone individually has to take care of himself. How he can be saved from the clutches of maya. That is Krsna consciousness movement. A teacher can give you hints.
The acarya can give you hints that “You can be saved in this way.” But the execution of the duties, that is in your hand. If you perform the spiritual duties rightly, then you are saved. Otherwise, even acarya gives you instruction, if you don’t follow, so how he can save you? He can save you by instruction, by his mercy, as much as possible. But you have to take it in your hands seriously.”
HARE KRSNA
much happy giggling over April Fool’s joke at camp ISKCON (reflects general mood of present ISKCON )
April 10 at 10:20pm
Basu Ghosh Das:
News flash!
David Nrsimhananda Shapiro Prabhu is in the hospital. He sent me this picture from his Gmail e-mail account and only wrote: “pray for me”.
He’s 65 years old, and was otherwise in good health. Approximately three years ago he underwent open-heart “valve repair” surgery.
If anyone reading this is at Los Angeles, I request you to telephone his wife, Manjari Dasi and inquire about the situation and let us know what is ailing him/ what the situation is. I don’t have a direct phone number, but I have their home phone. Write to me via private message and I’ll send it across (don’t want to post it “in the public domain” without his permission).
Laxmimoni Dasi: Looks like he’s in India…where else do they have wires like that hanging off the bed!!
April 10 at 10:29pm
Lilananda Dasa: I am praying for you Prabhu!
April 10 at 10:33pm
Annabelle Anavadyangi Dasi Younger: My heart and prayers go out to Krsna and Prabhupada for him.
April 10 at 10:42pm
Vinode Vani Dasi: He must not have had valve repair surgery, or he wouldn’t be wearing long sleeve crew neck t shirt.
April 10 at 11:21pm
Rose Mary Rader: Hare Krsna ! Of course …
April 11 at 6:02am
Bhumi Devi Dasi: I heard this was a joke….. what the H?
April 11 at 12:52pm
Bhumi Devi Dasi: Somebody called to speak with his wife yesterday and she said it was a joke….. How can one joke about something like this?
April 11 at 1:03pm
Annabelle Anavadyangi Dasi Younger: He did it as an April Fool’s joke.
Dear SG, OK I have worked ordinary jobs with ordinary people. We have had many people there working who are 70, some have been over 80, and they are not only alive, they were still active and working. The average life span of the ordinary people is way above what the so-called devotee level is.
This is the reverse of what should be happening, i.e. the devotees should be living longer due to healthy and stress free lifestyle.
Instead we find many devotees are getting incurable diseases, such as cancer, tumors, colon removal, kidney failure, heart attacks, nerve disorders, and of course we have had no small numbers of deaths from drug overdoses (one nice lady died of heroin overdose, just after she told me she was very depressed by the GBC goonda program). There has also been deaths from alcohol poison, and so on and so forth, none of which are normal deaths for devotees.
One nice devotee lady told me she “lost her will to live” and she died of cancer, that was in 1986. She died very young. There has also been a series of suicides. Of course another group of devotees has died from violence, getting shot and so on, due to engagement in criminal activity. And even some of the gurus have been attacked by disgruntled disciples. Most of the gurus complain of a wide variety of ailments, sickness etc., and premature deaths are happening there. Of course, I had to save one guru from getting his head blown off with a shot gun because he was having sex with a man’s wife, I had to restrain the shooter. This is another “cause of death” that is not normal for devotees.
Meanwhile, even my 70 year old neighbor is outside working hard, building fences and lifting big rocks out of his garden. Something is amiss here? It seems to me that SG is trying to say, who cares about Krishna’s devotees who are suffering and dying, let em all die, so our bogus guru program can survive? Its a little heartless to say all this dying and suffering is normal. It seems there is not an ounce of compassion for the suffering of others, which is the trade mark behavior of the GBC guru program all along. As for Nrshinghananda, he think I am making “overblown” statements and that there is not really a big problem here, no wonder, since he earns his livelihood supporting the bogus guru process, which is the real cause of all this suffering and death in my opinion. Not only the rank and file is getting sick and dying, the gurus are also getting sick and dying, like I said, its an epidemic. ys pd
What is even worse is, while there is always say for example $375,000 readily on hand to put various GBC gurus into the top of the line (i.e. most costly) Cedars Sinai Hospital (where some of them have gone in Los Angeles) … there are virtually no available MEDICAL funds to help “the peons” when they get sick. Notice, there is always some “emergency fund” to try to help the poor peon people. These “fund raisers” never collect more than a few thousand dollars from my experience. Meanwhile, the GBC does have a spare $15,000,000 (15 million) dollars of spare cash to sue us in court. Evidently, buying Mercedes for lawyers is the highest priority, and not taking care of Krishna’s devotees. Yep save the poor devotees, because all of their money is being spent on lawyers and not medical help for them. ys pd
http://www.youcaring.com/medical-fundraiser/save-the-kes-foundation/55391
Its not just the GBC gurus who look like skeletons, their main building project in Mayapura is also just a skeleton of a building, ooops, they ran out of funds, no kidding, because they are spending all their funds on lawsuits and lawyers to sue — us? http://youtu.be/ogikrO1p-G8
Puranjana das says:
29. April 2013 at 1:15 am
Quote — “What is even worse is, while there is always say for example $375,000 readily
on hand to put various GBC gurus into the top of the line (i.e. most costly)
Cedars Sinai Hospital (where some of them have gone in Los Angeles) … there are
virtually no available MEDICAL funds to help “the peons” when they get sick.”
=================V==================
Did Srila Prabhupada ever mentioned about medical coverage for
his disciples, dear Puranjana dasa ?
Did he ever authorized or ordered the GBC to set up some sort of
health care facilities for all the initiated members of Iskcon ?
Is there anything mentioned in any of his books or in the Direction of
Management (D.O.M) about the devotees welfare especially where health is concern ?
Was health care or medical welfare program for his disciples ever part of his
spiritual initiatives ?
If Srila Prabhupada did not and it was never part of his spiritual program, then
was he only concern about making as many disciples as possible, so as to print
and sell as many books as possible, so as to make as much as money as possible in
order to build as many temples as possible for the ultimate purpose of name and fame .
What is your opinion ?
These are fair questions, Puranjana dasa. As with all other instructions, should not the
instructions on health care or medical welfare facilities for his disciples or initiated members
of Iskcon, be coming from the founder acarya of Iskcon – Srila Prabhupada himself first.
After all it was his set-up, was it not ?
Did any disciples of Srila Prabhupada ever inquired about this from him. What about you,
Puranjana dasa ? You are his disciple. Were you ever concerned about such matters during
Srila Prabhupada’s physical presence ? Have you ever inquired about such matters from your
spiritual master – Srila Prabhupada ?
What about the ‘RITVIKS’. Do they have such health care facilities available for their
ritvik initiated disciples of Srila Prabhupada. For example Iskcon ‘Ritvik’ Singapore
temple and Iskcon ‘Ritvik’ Bangalore temple and all their branches. Do they have such
facilities ??? If not, why is this so ???
HARE KRSNA
Puranjana das says:
29. April 2013 at 1:15 am
Quote — “What is even worse is, while there is always say for example $375,000 readily
on hand to put various GBC gurus into the top of the line (i.e. most costly)
Cedars Sinai Hospital (where some of them have gone in Los Angeles) … there are
virtually no available MEDICAL funds to help “the peons” when they get sick.”
=================V==================
Did Srila Prabhupada ever mentioned about medical coverage for
his disciples, dear Puranjana dasa?
[PD: Srila Prabhupada did say he wanted a place for elderly devotees to retire to in their old age, for one thing, so they would have some medical / care facility / help in their later years. That program has never been done in any realistic manner. Ever.
Aindra was on the verge of getting kicked out of the GBC’s temple, and he was in anxiety about that, according to his friends. That means the bogus gurus were going to make him basically a homeless person. However, when these GBC gurus leave, they take with them hundreds and thousands, or more, for example Harikesha demanded a million dollars to leave with.
Aindra would have left with a peanut, so there is a big problem with resources allocation. The peons get a peanut and the GBC self-declared Kings get millions.
As for medical coverage in general, I am not sure if Srila Prabhupada gave a direct instruction on this problem, however one thing is for sure, he never said he wanted an elite group to get all the exclusive million dollar care at Cedars Sinai Hospital, while some of the rest of the devotees are dying while sleeping under trees, as ocurred to a friend of mine. There should be a balance of resources. If some are getting elite-scale million dollar care, while simultaneously some are dying while sleeping under a tree, that means the GBC gurus are hogging the resources.]
SG: Did he ever authorized or ordered the GBC to set up some sort of health care facilities for all the initiated members of Iskcon?
[PD: You really do not need a direct order for that program, its common sense. All people will get sick at some point or other, and medical coverage is needed for all the people, not just for a few elite people. There are some countries that give free coverage, maybe devotees who get very sick could be sent there. Other countries require health insurance, so that should be arranged, and some places have free clinics, and so on, all that should have been part of the GBC agenda a long time ago. Each devotee should have had some sort of plan for his / her eventual health needs, that is called managerial responsibility. You mean to say no one knows people will get sick? And during Srila Prabhupada’s time most of the devotees were in their 20s, so they did not have many big medical issues at that time. It was not a huge problem at the time. Apart from that the movement was just getting started, its not fair to say it should have had these things online immediately.
However, over time, the GBC should have developed a program to care for the people in their charge. Any organization has to look out for its members, especially if those members are fully dependent upon the organization. This is basic common sense. Of course some GBC said they had no training in child care, so the children ended up getting starved, beaten and abused. The REAL reason the children were neglected is because — the GBC guru were ONLY caring about their big opulent lifestyles and not for the children, that’s simple.]
SG: Is there anything mentioned in any of his books or in the Direction of Management (D.O.M) about the devotees welfare especially where health is concern? Was health care or medical welfare program for his disciples ever part of his spiritual initiatives?
[PD: Again, why does the GBC need a specific order for example, children need food and soap? This is common sense, people have needs, and the GBC is supposed to ensure that these basic needs are being met. Taking care of the health of the members is one of the needs.]
SG: If Srila Prabhupada did not and it was never part of his spiritual program, then was he only concern about making as many disciples as possible, so as to print and sell as many books as possible, so as to make as much as money as possible in order to build as many temples as possible for the ultimate purpose of name and fame . What is your opinion?
[PD: My opinion is that he was counting on the leaders to more fully organize these programs. The GBC now says we were not told how to treat the children properly, so … they did not know children need soap, blankets and food? No, they knew about that all along, they just hogged all the resources for themselves.
So there should be management, and that is part of management, to make sure all the citizens have their needs met. At this stage, 35 years after Srila Prabhupada departed, we find that some neglected cows at a GBC managed farm were sent to slaughter, because the cowherd man was so upset that the cows were being neglected. He thought having the cows killed was more merciful than leaving them at the “tender mercy” of the GBC program. Are you saying the GBC does not know that cows need care? No, they know, but they are spending all their money on big opulent situations for themselves and their lawyers, they do not care about these other individuals.]
SG: These are fair questions, Puranjana dasa. As with all other instructions, should not the instructions on health care or medical welfare facilities for his disciples or initiated members of Iskcon, be coming from the founder acarya of Iskcon — Srila Prabhupada himself first. After all it was his set-up, was it not?
[PD: Devotees do not need health care, cows do not need facility, children do not need soap, blankets and food, because Srila Prabhupada did not specify that these things are needed? No, he made a managerial board and that is what managers do, they find out what are the needs and they attend to the needs. The GBC has instead a new program, they found that their lawyer’s Mercedes has a full ashtray, and so they immediately go out and buy a new Mercedes for their lawyer.
That means they are primarily attending to the needs of people they are not supposed to be caring for, and neglecting those they are supposed to take care of. I told the leaders about the children abuse problem in 1980, and they said so what, who cares, sue us? OK, later on they were sued for $400,000,000, in other words, they would rather pay $400,000,000 to courts and lawyers, than spend 50 cents on their own society’s children? They are the servants of lawyers. They are like the Pharisees.]
SG: Did any disciples of Srila Prabhupada ever inquired about this from him. What about you, Puranjana dasa ? You are his disciple. Were you ever concerned about such matters during Srila Prabhupada’s physical presence ? Have you ever inquired about such matters from your spiritual master — Srila Prabhupada ?
What about the ‘RITVIKS’. Do they have such health care facilities available for their ritvik initiated disciples of Srila Prabhupada. For example Iskcon ‘Ritvik’ Singapore temple and Iskcon ‘Ritvik’ Bangalore temple and all their branches. Do they have such facilities ??? If not, why is this so ???
HARE KRSNA
[PD: The ritviks are for the most part not organized, its like a rag tag army. We have a few independent programs here and there. Its premature to expect we could have any large scale organized programs at this point. We are like the 1700s US rebellion, they fought the British with no boots, no proper uniforms, no horses, no canons, they had no organization and it would be foolish to expect that they would have at that stage. The ritivks do not have much of anything right now, so we are only now only in the very early and initial stages of getting organized. The GBC has had many, many years to figure out what are the needs of the devotees, they have not done so yet.
They are still only mainly interested in buying more and more and more and more big Mercedes for their lawyers, that means, they have learned nothing. They said, we do not need to care for the children, go ahead and sue, us, that means they are only interested in courts, lawyers, and paying millions and even hundreds of millions on courts, while the citizens get basically, no help at all? Indeed, you ask a good question: Where was any of this ordered by Srila Prabhupada? ys pd]
haribol, is there proof that they go to the Cedars Sinai Hospital?
ys
just that I heard that Cedars Sinai Hospital is for mind control by the sinister movement.
hari bhakta says: haribol, is there proof that they go to the Cedars Sinai Hospital?
A representative of the GBC is free to try to deny it on this thread. Trouble is, since they are living in a house of cards, they are very reluctant to submit to an open public debate.
Their solution, in the past, has been to murder the dissident, but since the FBI, ever since the Sulocana murder, is keeping a watchful eye on them, they don’t dare.
Giriraja and others went there. The point is they spend all kinds of cash on their health care, jet set travel, four star accomodations, luxury cars, servants, private homes and etc. Satsvarupa wrote that he flew all over the world trying all kinds of doctors and psychics and so on to cure his headaches. They also gave tons of money to their ghost buster Chitesvara.
OK and flying all over the world to consult with expensive doctors costs a lot of money. SDG also stayed at hotels (watching soap operas) most of the time and not at the temples, ok and who paid for all that? ISKCON did.
Of course the psychic told SDG, you are surrounded by dark energy, you need to find a yellow pages telephone book and “just chose a church and start to go to a church.” And he never did that. In other words, the GBC gurus spend hundreds of thousands of dollars flying all over the planet, and when they get good advice, and the psychic tells him what is wrong, you need to find God, they do not even bother to take their advice? Its just pouring tons of money down a deep hole for nothing.
Jayapataka spends thousands on health care every month, I am surprised you are not aware of these things. The GBC are all right now going to a health guru in India, and this was in the newspapers there just this week.
I am not sure where you have been hari bhakta? Ramesvara left ISKCON in a brand new car packed with aluminum brief cases, cowboy boots and some big stash of cash, Bhagavan cleaned out the safe before he left, Harikesha bought a mansion on the Riviera, and so on and so forth. Hari Sauri and Bhavananda were flying all over the place while the children were being starved. I think you need to look at our previous stories on these things first, where we reported a lot of these things over the years, before you comment further. The story of the GBC spending tons of money on lawsuits in India is in all the media in India, where have you been prabhu?
All these leaders spend tons of money just on travel every year, and when they have health problems, like Tamal did, he is immediately in the best and most expensive hospital in Dallas. He has the best surgeons in Dallas working on him. Our folks get to die under a tree, that is what has been going on here for 35 years, sorry you were not aware of all this? ys pd
“Harikesha demanded a million dollars to leave with.”
Right, after all those years there seems slight gap in memory.
Harikesha managed that years before he left that he was the only one with full access to all European BBT bank accounts. 99% of Eurpean Prabhupada disciples were kicked out Harikesha could do whatever he likes. According insiders he was sitting on more than 100 mio US dollars BBT money collected by devotees all over Europe from 1977-1998.
What he carried with him when he officially left might be only the tip of the iceberg. Transactions before he left were never checked.
First thing he did was to buy a property on the Côte d’Azur, prize: 1 mio US dollars. You don’t require a behavior scientist to understand that when someone leaves his executive chair and the first thing he does is to buy a mansion for 1 mio US dollars at Monte Carlo, Monaco, he at least has 20 mio in his pocket. Remember, Harikesha was aware that with discontinued school education he would get nowhere. Since he planned his new life with wife, he must have been 100% sure to take enough cash for the rest of life.
Since 12 years he and his wife live peacefully without earnings in Florida. Agreed, some Russians still send him guru dakshine.
Now the GBC gurus are attending “wellness workshops.”
Of course, they do not care if any of the other devotees are well or not?
Yes, Harikesh has been living nicely after he left, he quite obviously took a lot of cash when he left. He was also living like a king when he was a guru, flying all over, using a big motor home, he had a big sound recording studio for his personal recording etc., and in sum he was living like a rock and roll star very opulently — meanwhile the children in his schools had hardly any blankets, proper clothes, and forget about heaters, air conditioners, …. or even soap, food and basic medical care.
Almost all the money that was meant for caring for the children was being spent on people like Harikesha for their jet set lifestyle. Some of these children have hardly any teeth now that they have grown up, since they were fed so poorly, they had malnutrition problems. Some have stunted growth, curved spines and so on. Meanwhile people like Tamal and Jayapataka were having huge feasts every day, its obvious the children’s money was being siphoned off for their personal jet set program.
Yes, lets all go and spend money on our own wellness programs, since we did such a good job mistreating everyone else. This is really getting silly. Rather oddly, some of these gurus have become very sick and some have died, apparently, from over-eating.
This is amazing, they were starving others and eating like hogs, so they are suffering from their own hog-like behavior, like Jayapataka is, from stuffing their faces too much. Starving others and stuffing oneself, this is what evil kingdoms, dictators, and bogus leaders have done for centuries. Kim Jong Un comes to mind, that is his program, he eats nicely, while his poor citizens get to eat dead cock roaches. It means these leaders have no sense of mercy or compassion, they have become the most self-centered and selfish people on the planet. The karma for this type of behavior is very, very, very, severe however. ys pd
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Wellness-workshop-held-for-ISKCON-monks/articleshow/19711591.cms?intenttarget=no
There are lots of devotees like Naara Narayana pr. who believe that rectifying GBC by having GBC newly elected every year will remedy present corrupt Vaishnava management situation. To prove this understanding NNV quotes Prabhupada:
Coming from experimental stage to corruption-free management system. Now even Times of India (see comment above) writes, GBC gurus, not just gurus but GBC-gurus. In other words, even Times of India knows that ISKCON gurus = GBC men.
All those quotes of Prabhupada highlight that GBC is regulatory authority and watchdog to see that things are going on. However, during Prabhupada’s physical presence there was never any scenario mentioned that in future those GBC men would also be gurus. But this is exactly what happened. Major of a city simultaneously serving as chief of police. ISKCON guru: I’m bona fide because I was appointed by GBC (=myself).
Regulatory authority identical with executive authority, an alarming situation but so far SAC, ISKCON’s intelligence agency jubilantly glorifies this evil construction as brilliant invention. Unless there is total write-off ISKCONites sleep tight. On the other hand, ISKCON’s rank&file’s hands are tied, any type of motion to reform GBC is to revolt against their spiritual masters.
In sum, introducing elected GBC at present moment equals to deselect / re-elect their “directly Hari” (saksadhari) diksha-gurus. All this is called, cultural presentation for the respiritualization of the entire human society? Hopefully there is return to Prabhupada’s formula soon!
The ONLY way is the Srila Prabhupada way to correct the wrong – and that is to EXPOSE the Bogus GBC and the CONDITIONED SOUL crooks “gurus” they manufactured to DUPE the devotees. The devotees ARE waking-up by asking questions:
Where are the Detailed GBC Accounts for how $100,000 is Spent Each Year?
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/04-13/editorials10083.htm
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CON Trick from the Bogus GBC
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=34797#more-34797
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Note: the similarites are PERFECT the Jackals are bogus “gurus” manufactured by the bogus GBC they want to play at being representatives of God and Srila Prabhupada says they have to be EXPOSED:
730503mw.la Conversations
Prabhupada: No, it is Sanskrit. And in Bengal it is called vane asiya raja.(?) “In the forest a jackal has become king.” They are like that. Nila-varna-srigalavat.(?) When… There is big story about this jackal. I will tell you some. A jackal came in the village and he fell in the tub where, what is called, the water? No, no. The water man keeps the water for dipping, making
little bluish. For coloring. That blue, blue. So the washerman kept the dye water in a big tub, and the jackal fell in it. So jackal fell in it; he became blue, all blue. So he fled away, and all the animals said, “What is this animal? What is the animal? What is that animal? Oh?” All, even lion became surprised. “We have not seen this.” “So who are you, sir?” “I AM SENT BY GOD TO RULE OVER YOU.” “OH?” SO THEY BEGAN TO WORSHIP HIM AS GOD, AS LEADER. Then one day other jackals, they were crying, “Wa, wa,” but the jackals cannot stop. If others jackals cry, the jackal cannot stop. So he also began to “Wa, wa.” Oh, then, they, oh, this rascal is a jackal. Yavat kincin na bhasate. That these rascals are jackals. Now they are talking nonsense. We can detect that “Here is a jackal.” SO WE HAVE TO EXPOSE THEM. THEY ARE NOT LEADER; THEY ARE JACKALS. SO JACKALS CANNOT ANYMORE RULE OVER. THAT SHOULD BE OUR PROPAGANDA. NOT ONLY SCIENTIFIC, ALL POLITICAL THINGS, SOCIAL THINGS, EVERYTHING. THEY SHOULD BE ALL KICKED OUT. THEY SHOULD BE REPLACED BY KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS. THEN PEOPLE WILL BE HAPPY. THIS SHOULD BE OUR PROGRAM. Our, this propaganda means to make people happy. It is not a business, to make business and take some money. And so many jackals have been arrested and resigned in your… You know that? Many jackals have been obliged to resign their post in the government.
While reading these posts I remembered a story of Dr frog recited by Prabhupada. Prabhupada said that this frog was staying in a well and was thinking the well is the biggest water body and he is the best frog everywhere. Once when a frog from ocean jumped into the well, this Dr frog asked where the new frog lived. The frog said it lived in the ocean. When asked how big is ocean, the frog tried to explain it. Since Dr frog was unable to grasp about it and was also thinking that his well is best and he is the best frog, he rejected the statement of the new frog as bogus.
I see a similar situation here. Devotees tell lies and stories about ISKCON temples saying this is happening there, that is happening there etc. Some things may be true but most of them are hoax. Then they tell their disciples(whom they misguide saying they are Prabhupada’s disciples but indirectly accept all the faith from them that is to be offered to Prabhupada) that “we are the best temple in the world because we are doing the greatest amount of preaching. We are pleasing Prabhupada the most. If you are doubting us then your spiritual life is in danger. The poor followers think “oh one rarely comes to Bhakti. After getting this chance I don’t want to loose it. So I will believe in what our prabhuji is telling. If I go against him, Krishna and Prabhupada will be angry at me and my spiritual life will be in danger”.
Thinking like this they don’t even investigate whether whatever they have heard is real or false but blindly believe in their so called Gurus who have unknowingly usurped the position of Guru without demonstrating their purity and capability. Tell me one thing, how many of your disciples do you allow to go to other temples, observe ISKCON Gurus and find out what the reality is? If you don’t why is it so? I can also write loads of lies, but that is not what we are meant to do here, we must expose the reality. Those who are writing lies in this forum, ask yourselves – do you think Prabhupada will be pleased with you?
Krishna das is trying to re-write history. Berkeley temple had 240 devotees, three houses, and huge harinama samkirtanas all the time here in 1977. We were also selling millions of Srila Prabhupada books every year, just here in the Bay Area alone. We also had a temple in San Francisco with maybe 60-70 devotees, and they had big harinamas there on Market street regularly.
Since the GBC “gurus” took over, the San Francisco temple has been closed for maybe 20 years now, there is no temple there at all. There are now no Market street harinamas here, ever. The GBC also sold the three Berkeley temple’s houses and pocketed the money, so there is no place for the householders to live, and in sum they just kicked out everyone en masse. Right now there has been around 10-15 devotees at the Berkeley temple for a long time, so its a major struggle just to collect funds to pay the electric bill, and that has been the case for the past 15 years here at least.
I am sorry, but this is not some made up lies, its what is happening now, come here and see this for yourself. Yes we have harinamas maybe once a month here in Berkeley, five people maybe.
The San Francisco temple is now a laundry mat, I can take you there and show you. The Berkeley temple is a ghost town, come here and look for yourself. How can we lie about stuff like this when everyone knows that is the history here?
After the GBC’s gurus were in all the newspapers with connections to illegal gun sales operations, drug selling, machine guns, stealing credit cards, murders, child molesting, police raids, FBI raids, Federal Marshall raids, and so forth, most of the public now thinks this is a criminal operation. This was in all the newspapers? How can we be making all this up?
And yes, anyone who tried to say this criminal process is going to ruin the movement was being banned, beaten, chased with baseball bats, and assassinated. Dr. J Stillson Judah told me that himself, watch your back, you are in danger. So these gurus were not only hell bent in their desire to ruin ISKCON, they wanted to suppress anyone who opposed ISKCON being destroyed, so they had us dissenters banned, beaten and killed. I know, I was there. Krishna das is trying to re-write history, but we lived the history, we are the history, so — we can spot a — “re-write” — a mile away.
Drutakarma is also trying to re-write history, he is now saying the GBC wanted all along to have all of the 5,000 disciples to be ISKCON’s gurus. He says everyone of the 5,000 is a guru, no, they said only the 11 are gurus and those voted in by the 11 are gurus, sorry — they never said the whole 5,000 are going to be their gurus, this is another bogus history re-write. He thinks he is going to fool those of us who were banned, beaten and almost assassinated by saying, we are also their co-gurus? This is why Jayapataka told Harikesha to take some psychotropic drugs, he said you need to take drugs so you can think straight. These people are fooling no one but themselves these days.
http://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2013/05/drutakarma-tries-to-rescue-illicit-sex.html
Sorry, we are eye witnesses to the history, Krishna das cannot tell us what did or did not happen, we know what happened, we lived it.
ys pd
Krishna das says,
“Devotees tell lies and stories about ISKCON temples,……”
Then Krishna das says,
“The poor followers think “oh one rarely comes to Bhakti. After getting this chance I don’t want to loose it. So I will believe in what our prabhuji is telling. If I go against him, Krishna and Prabhupada will be angry at me and my spiritual life will be in danger”.
Ummm, prabhji,.. sorry to be the one to point out this obvious FACT (yes, again), but the paragraph above that YOU wrote is, well,… a LIE. You don’t know what EVERYONE is thinking. You’re making it up as you go along.
Like I said earlier, you sound desperate when you fabricate the thoughts of others and present them as fact to support your otherwise weak argument. Actually the more you write, the stronger Puranjana’s replies become, the more FACTS come out, and then the more desperate your writings sound. Do you really think you’re the best mouthpiece for ISKCON guru’s?
Two old sayings come to mind:
1. Give a man enough rope and he’s bound to hang himself.
2. Quit while you’re ahead.
Please stop telling lies Krishna das,… it’s getting embarassing
Krishna das challenges, “Tell me one thing, how many of your disciples do you allow to go to other temples, observe ISKCON Gurus and find out what the reality is?”
OH YOU MEAN THIS REALITY KRISHNA DAS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=7yln1QAvvxw
At around 4:30 on the video we see what the true nature of what the ISKCON GURU/GBC is.
In case you missed it Kishna das, I can transcribe Ravinda svarup’s words if need be?
Dear Puranjana Prabhu,
I was not questioning because I don’t know about the money these people have wasted, I was just interested to know if they went to that hospital as it is connected to mind control by the Illuminati.
It is very sad to see how upset you get at one simple question.
Who will listen to you if you are so aggressive Prabhu?
Gentleness, kindness and compassion are qualities of a devotee.
ys
hari bhakta
Please don’t use terms Prabhupada never used. Especially when it comes to abstract term like “Illuminati” we should be careful from what source we get this information.
According Stephan Lewandowsky, a cognitive scientist at the University of Western Australia, there are number of factors why people indulge in conspiracy theory, but probably one of the most important ones in this instance is that, paradoxically, it gives people a sense of control.
People hate being stuck in difficult situation, they dread the sort of karmic occurrences that can lower quality of life, so as a mechanism against that dread, it turns out that it’s much easier to believe in a conspiracy. Then you have someone to blame, it’s not just — bad karma.
For instance, with the so-called Climategate scandal, there were something like nine different investigations, all of which have exonerated the scientists involved. But the response from the people who held this notion was to say that all of those investigations were a whitewash.
So it started with the scientists being corrupt and now not only is it them, but it’s also all the major scientific organizations of the world that investigated them and the governments of the U.S. and the U.K., etc., etc. And that’s typical — instead of accepting the evidence, you actually turn it around and say that it’s actually evidence to support the conspiracy because it just means it’s even broader than it was originally thought to be.
For example, the idea that 9/11 was an inside job was fairly common among Democrats in the early part of the 2000s, and very few Republicans believed it at the time. But conversely, the idea that the U.N. is trying to create a world government is predominantly held by people on the right, but not at all by people on the political left.
Of course, any extraordinary event will be followed by conspiracy theorizing. Whatever happens tomorrow, there will be a conspiracy theory about it. Prabhupada’s approach is to present sastra and practical solution — not fearmongering or scare stories.
Dear Puranjana Prabhu,
I was not questioning because I don’t know about the money these people have wasted, I was just interested to know if they went to that hospital as it is connected to mind control by the Illuminati. It is very sad to see how upset you get at one simple question. Who will listen to you if you are so aggressive Prabhu? Gentleness, kindness and compassion are qualities of a devotee. ys hari bhakta
===================================
[PD: OK, except you did not explain that the illuminati was your issue in the question? You seemed to be challenging the idea that they were getting expensive care. I am not a mind reader. If you had a question about the illuminati, you should have simply asked about it?
So the question is, are the GBC controlled by the illuminati? No, the illuminati theory is that their members try to blend in and hide their identities, by conforming to the organization they are infiltering, then they gradually sneak in their agenda over decades of time.
These GBC guru people did not hide their bogus activities and try to “blend in” at all. Jayatirtha was taking LSD and he was singing like an out of control insane fool with his cracker pot kirtans, right in public, in his Vyasasana, and this was right out of the box in 1979, he was not trying to blend in at all. He was making huge public waves immediately.
He was also giving drugs to his inner circle of people, having illicit sex, and behaving in public like a buffoon. No blending was even attempted. That is not blending in. Kirtanananda’s people were being arrested for selling drugs, using underage teenage girls as drug mules, and so on, and this was in all the newspapers. Blending in? No. Making huge public waves? Yes.
Hansadutta had his people stealing credit card, and his farm was busted in 1979, not blending in at all. Ramesvara’s PDI (drug selling) pals were busted and the Laguna Beach temple president was arrested also in 1979. And we could give countless examples of this, for example that the entire ISKCON was sued in Syracuse Federal court for fraud, for selling candles and calling that samkirtana, for using bogus charities for the blind and poor to collect money, etc. and this was in all the newspapers in the USA, and they lost the case.
That case was started in 1979, so right out of the box they did not try to make a blending in of anything, they made huge public waves — after waves — after waves — of giant public problems that were in all the newspapers.
Apart from that, had these people really been organized criminal conspirators, I never would have got “the will,” the letters, the July 9th letter, the May tape, and especially — the poison tapes and so on. Not only that, I never would have lived long enough to obtain any of these items if these were actually organized conspirators.
Nope, they are a bunch of hippie do-dah space cadets, they bungled almost all their crimes. And that is why they were constantly in the newspapers. They were amateur criminals by any standard. That does not mean that amateur crooks are NOT dangerous of course. The police around here say that these amateur crooks are their worst problem. The “crooks in learning” do not even know how to shoot guns properly. So they often kill innocent men, women, even pregnant women, and children, even babies and toddlers, … in short, the innocent by-stander is much more likely to die than the people they are shooting at. Amateur crooks, they are not hardly organized, but very dangerous nonetheless. ys pd
Thanks for your comment Puranjan Prabhu. Yes, I agree, they should not spend so much money. It’s a shame.
Maybe they are amateur criminals on purpose to bring the Mission of Lord Caitanya down?
Well, I’d like to say, that Citeswar Prabhu is actually a really good ghost buster. He helped me with a serious issue and through his yagnas, he helped me a lot.
http://www.pagalbaba.net/home.php?ur=historiaig&bt=botig
Although it is a material science, it can help those who are struggling and not on the pure devotee platform, free from the effects of the mind and modes of material nature.
Haribol!
Right, well Chitesvara thinks that acharyas are full of ghosts. That means, he is in illusion.
I was in Badger when Chitesvara came there to milk all the devotees for money with his ghost busting program (pagal baba means “mad man,” no kidding), and he may have known about me being his worst critic.
So I sunk down in the seat of my van, and waited till he was right beside my van window, then and I popped my head out and said, “Hey Chitesvara, its your old pal Puranjana”! I have never seen anyone run away so fast in my life. He looked just like — he had seen a ghost. Hee hee. ys pd
What exactly did he say about the Acharyas? Wonder why he said that? Did he say that Prabhupada was full of ghosts?
He will get a lot of bad karma if he is actually ripping people off.
What more do you know of his program?
Chitesvara supported the GBC gurus in 1990 when they were trying to explain all their fall downs. He said — the reason these gurus are always falling down is — they are haunted by ghosts. I cannot remember the exact numbers he gave but he said something like, Ravindra has 14 ghosts, Hrdayananda has 23 ghosts, and so on and so forth.
Prabhavishnu was the only slightly sensible person here, he protested the whole thing saying — this is all foolishness. And so Chitesvara said, that is because the ghosts inside Prabhavishnu to not want to be taken away by his ghost busting technique. So Prabhavishnu was ordered to be ghost busted, and he was.
JAYAPATAKA swami then ordered that ALL the GBC’s gurus must be ghost busted by (his disciple?) Chitesvara. Shortly after that, and all through the early 1990s, Chitesvara was given the job by the GBC gurus, to be flown all over ISKCON to ghost-bust gurus, temples, devotees and so on. Which he was doing worldwide.
So yes, Chitesvara not only says acharyas are full of ghosts, he says, only he has the potency to save acharyas who are full of ghosts. That means, he thinks acharyas are being overwhelmed by ghostly hauntings, and that the “pagal baba ashram” has to save the acharyas. Notice the word “pagal,” Chitesvara is saying that the acharyas are mad men (pagal) who are full of ghosts. That means, he is saying the acharyas are in the lowest modes of tamasic guna. I still have one of his business cards somewhere which says “pagal baba ashram ghost buster, Chitesvara das.”
I do not really blame Chitesvara so much, he was simply a tool the GBC used to explain all their fall downs. Of course he will get some serious karma for his supporting and helping the main GBC idea that the Lord’s acharyas are ghostly haunted mad fools who are engaged in debauchery,
This is very sinful, to juxtapose such low level material contamination with the acharyas. Even the ordinary karmis are not ghostly haunted debauchees, so for the GBC to say the Lord’s successors and acharyas are on that odious tamasic level means, they are saying the acharyas are much lower class of people than — the ordinary hamburger eating man on the street? This is what they have said all along, the ordinary man is more advanced than the acharyas, because the ordinary man is not falling into illicit sex, intoxication, criminal activity and so forth. To say the Lord’s successors are mad fools who are chasing intoxication and illicit sex is an insult to pure devotees everywhere, and its an attack on Krishna by saying His direct servants are mad debauchees.
Chitesvara will be karma implicated in all this, and if you think about it, for their saying the successors to God are pagal baba ghostly haunted debauchess is — just not going to win them any favors with the Yamaduttas, lets face it. They have not figured this out yet, but fighting against Krishna like this is just messing with the wrong person, they won’t win this war. Do they say Prabhupada is full of ghosts, well indirectly yes, when they say acharyas are full of ghosts, that could be any of them. This also means, as soon as we become purely attached to Krishna, ghosts will make us behave like debauched criminals, that means, the worst thing you can do is to surrender to Krishna. This is very offensive. ys pd
When reading comment above I remember when this Chitesvara was sent to our newly constructed temple around 1983. As soon this temple was ready built it was announced that “powerful ghosts obsessed the building and an expert would arrive soon to solve this problem”.
Then Chitesvara arrived in great pomp with a team of assistants. Of course all this fund-raising was paid by – sankirtan laxmi. It’s easy to be wise after the event, but it’s hard to believe that Chitesvara considered this exorcism ritual to be of any value. They placed a few pumpkins in front of the temple and started chanting mantras. At one point Chitesvara declared that he can see that all ghosts are hiding now in those pumpkins because they were terrified by Chitesvara’s powerful mantras.
Then he told the devotees to smash those pumpkins at the concrete temple stairs. This would shock these ghosts so much that they would never return. He told the devotees to bow down and pay obeisances in honor for being rescued from these ghosts. Chitesvara received a check and asked for immediate transfer to the airport because there was, “another urgent exorcism to be performed in Italy”.
Quite amazing how naive we were at that time. The whole thing was nothing but pickpocketing?
Thanks for the information Prabhu, seems like Chitesvara Prabhu was used as a puppet by Jayapataka in a bid to explain why the “Acharyas” were so pagal.
Guess he made some good money out of it. So sad.
Do you think he actually has the ability to remove ghosts and see past lives?
According to him he has a mystic siddhi to obtain this information.
I guess you can have these powers, but still be mislead by others.
Was I duped by this guy?
Is there anyone in the world that is trustworthy?!
Yes, as soon as I saw the business card “Pagal baba ashram,” I said, this shows how desperate the GBC gurus are, they have to explain their “guru failures” as being “caused by ghosts.” We had a comedian here in the USA named Flip Wilson, and that was his main punchline “The Devil Made Me Do It.” So the GBC borrowed almost the same idea and came up with “The Ghosts Made Me Do It.” Yes, anyone who accepts this is being duped, its a scam.
This is now a big problem here in San Francisco. Old Chinese ladies are being told to collect their valuables — including taking their money out of the bank — and to put the valuables into a paper bag under their bed to remove evil spirits, so their house will be ghost busted. Problem is, the ghost busters change the women’s paper bag with their own, a bag filled with useless newspapers, and they steal the old ladies money and jewelry. Its the same type of criminal cheating as the GBC. Preying on people’s sentiments. ys pd