From the Executive Committee of the ISKCON Governing Body Commission (GBC)
August 3, 2013
Dear Devotees of ISKCON,
Please accept our humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
We regret to inform you that the GBC Executive Committee has received a letter from Mahanidhi Swami, a disciple of Srila Prabhupada since 1975, announcing that he has “decided to resign from the glorious preaching mission of ISKCON”.
Prior to receiving that letter, reports were brought to our attention alleging inappropriate behavior on the part of Mahanidhi Swami on both a personal and philosophical level. The GBC began an investigation of those and found some of the allegations to be true, including inappropriate interactions with a female disciple. Although the extent of those problems is not clear, we found there was definitely behavior not befitting someone in the renounced order of life.
It was during this investigation that Mahanidhi Swami chose to resign.
In a prayerful mood, we would like to comment briefly on this situation. As Vaishnavas, we understand that the obstacles of this material world are very difficult to overcome. Srila Prabhupada warned us that many stalwarts may fall from the path of Krishna consciousness if we are not cautious in the execution of our devotional service.
As stated in an official GBC paper in March of this year:
Those who accept the service of diksha or siksha guru within ISKCON are mandated to be strict followers of the instructions of Srila Prabhupada, and, as long as they follow, they are acting on the liberated platform. Thus they may serve, as Srila Prabhupada ordered, as bonafide representatives of the Lord and the Guru Parampara and be a via medium of Their mercy. Yet it should be clearly understood that if such diksha or siksha gurus deviate from strictly following, they may fall down from their position.
Therefore, we should all be careful to strictly follow the standards of Krishna consciousness as given to us by our Founder-Acarya and the previous acaryas. At the same time, Srila Prabhupada taught us to be concerned about the well being of our fellow Vaishnavas and to encourage each other to continue in devotional service to the best of our ability.
In that spirit, the GBC is continuing to reach out to Mahanidhi Swami. GBC members have also met with followers and disciples of Mahanidhi Swami to offer them our support.
We ask that the devotees of ISKCON pray for Mahanidhi Swami and the devotees affected by his difficulties. And as always, we offer our own humble prayers for all the Vaishnavas and the devotees of ISKCON and request Lord Krishna to kindly protect us and guide us all towards His eternal service.
Hare Krsna.
Your servants,
Tamohara Das, Chair
Anuttama Das
How many kicks in the face is it going to take for these self-motivated GBC/“guru” boneheads to finally realize that their pathetic attempt to be #33 of the disciplic succession (See: <http://causelessmercy.com/?P=BgIntroduction&TP=9863>) is simply a joke. Srila Prabhupada has a better idea:
pamho agtACBSP,
wow I feel so sorry – this is another proof that without being a liberated person it is not possible to be in intimate touch with Krishna!
I saw him giving class and I could see he was struggling mentally and physically in Krishna consciousness.
In 1987 he was in charge of the bhajan kutir of SRILA PRABHUPADA in SRI RADHA DAMODARA MANDIR in SRI VRINDAVAN DHAM and he wrote so many books as well but without sambandha-jnana (our relationship with God) we easily become victim of raga dvesa (attachment and envy).
In sankalpa and vikalpa mood (mental acceptance and rejection), one can easily get discouraged to see these things happening to senior disciples of SRILA PRABHUPADA by thinking – where am i then??????
ISOPANISAD:
(Sri Isopanisad, Mantra 9)
But those who are innocent, the most magnanimous avatara SRI GAURANGA MAHAPRABHU can set us free in a fraction of a second and not losing the best opportunity to go back home.
agtSP ys
haribol
“Cheating and weakness are two seperate things. Persons devoid of a cheating propensity achieve perfection in life, but a cheater is never successful. Vaisnavism is another name for simplicity. Cheaters are nondevotees. Sincere persons can be weak, but they are not cheaters. Cheaters say something but do something else. Weak people are embarrassed by their defects, whereas cheaters are maddened by their achievements. “I will cheat the acharya,” “I will deceive the doctor,” “I will nourish the poisonous snake of my sinful propensity with banana and milk, hiding him in the hole of my cheating propensity,” and “I will demand name and fame from the people while posing as a saint”: these are not symptoms of weakness but of utter deceitfulness. Such cheaters will never achieve any good. By hearing humbly from saints with a sincere attitude, however, one will gradually attain auspiciousness. After accepting tridandi-sannyasa if one remains busy with worldly activities, thinking that family life is more important than spiritual life or maintaining the sinful mentality of kidnapping Sita from Rama as Ravana did even while dressed as a devotee, then one is a self-killer. We are far from the worship of Hari. Even if we have weakness and have enough anarthas to last us for millions of years, we are not as misfortunate as if we posessed a cheating propensity. It is better to take birth as animals or birds than to take shelter of cheating.”
(from Amrita Vani by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja)
Has HDG. Srila Prabhupada not emphasized to BECOME QUALIFIED first before accepting the service position of Diksha or Siksha GURU.?
Can some one simply following the Instructions of Srila Prabhupada without becoming and reaching the platform of the Devotee be accepted on a liberated platform as the resolution by the GBC/ gurus say as quoted below ;
” As stated in an official GBC paper in March of this year:
Those who accept the service of diksha or siksha guru within ISKCON are mandated to be strict followers of the instructions of Srila Prabhupada, and, as long as they follow, they are acting on the liberated platform. Thus they may serve, as Srila Prabhupada ordered, as bonafide representatives of the Lord and the Guru Parampara and be a via medium of Their mercy. Yet it should be clearly understood that if such diksha or siksha gurus deviate from strictly following, they may fall down from their position.”
Is GBC/guru of all sorts situated on a Liberated platform ?
Is this NOT a CHEATING ?
First of all I would like to thank Mahanidhi Swami for his great service to Srila Prabhupada up to this point in his life and hope that he may seriously see the errors of his ways and join the Prabhupadanugas in our efforts to spread this Krsna consciousnes movement as Srila Prabhupa and Lord Caitanya intended. Now…
The GBC never and I mean never intended that their guru system work, it was intended to dilute the movement and eventually destroy it, during which time they would make the fortunes they desired. That established dynasties to rule the ruins is also in affect. They know that the Hare Krsna movement cannot be stopped and that it is spreading in the manner so designed by Lord Caitanya and Srila Prabhupada in spite of their devious plans. Let us not maintain this illusion that the GBC do not understand, they understand quite well otherwise how could they not be in the position they are in today. They are atheists and career criminals and they attract atheists and career criminals.
Ys Hasti Gopala Dasa
The Chair here he is presenting himself as a higher status ,but yet he write We ask that the devotees of ISKCON pray for Mahanidhi Swami and the devotees affected by his difficulties..He is still addressing him SWAMI- thus the chair is also a Jack ass.He should also resign from being a CHAIR – he proves he is not of Bharmanicle status but more of a Sudara.
Sorry harsh but TRUTH.
YS
Chandra
Hare Krishna. Pamho. AgtSP.
“Prior to receiving that letter, reports were brought to our attention alleging inappropriate behavior on the part of Mahanidhi Swami on both a personal and philosophical level”
What are those philosophical issues that the gbc didn’t agree with? I’m curious to know.
According to gbc, ritvik is a philosophical deviation too. Was MNS inclining towards ritvik?
Several years ago, MNS told a devotee friend of mine, “I’m a Prabhupada man, but don’t institutionalize me,”. Could this be a result of his “philosophical deviation”?
Of course, the fall down is another issue altogether. Any devotee can fall, whether one accepts or rejects Prabhupada’s ritvik order.
On second thought, one who does not support the acarya’s order is in one sense already fallen, right?
How many more times should it be drummed into the head that an Uttama adhikari NEVER falls down!!!!
And how many times must it be made clear that Prabhupada warned that we should be very careful to only accept diksha from one who is Uttama platform!!! (NOD). The ritvik order ensured that the danger to this warning will be avoided, if it was only followed.
Our GBC has made a mockery of this parampara. And they not changing their ways! What can we do now?
Hasti Gopala Dasa says: The GBC never and I mean never intended that their guru system work, it was intended to dilute the movement and eventually destroy it, during which time they would make the fortunes they desired. That established dynasties to rule the ruins is also in affect.
You give too much credit, Hasti Gopala Prabhu. They are not highly intelligent, evil-minded conspirators. They are simply overly-ambitious, self-motivated, not-very-intelligent neophytes, who have very little ability to see into the future. If they could have foreseen, back in 1978, that their disenfranchised godbrothers/godsisters would have the power, in the future, to very effectively fight back, they would not have been so bold.
IMHO, the real reason that they act the way they do is as I described back in 1999:
(<http://pratyatosa.com/?P=18&TP=7517>)
It is even more stupidiy to accept Srila Prabhupada as one’s Diksa Guru to escape seeking out a bona fide Guru for the fear of fall down. A cheap so called escape route
The GBC should imho seriously reconsider their stance on the amara ajnaya guru. The amara ajnaya guru’s is not liberated, only his actions are liberated. Srila Prabhupada states that by the instruction of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu one can become such a guru.
Always handy to understand Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu, the hidden avatara, and what liberated activities actually are.
btw, In the spiritual world there are no guru’s, nor disciples. The liberated guru acts out of fun, nothing else.
Vidhyabhusan das says: It is even more stupid to accept Srila Prabhupada as one’s diksa guru to escape seeking out a bona fide guru for the fear of fall down. A cheap so called escape route.
The Ritviks are not looking for a “stupid, cheap escape route.” They are simply following Srila Prabhupada’s crystal-clear prescription for future initiations within ISKCON: “Ritvik henceforward!” (See: <http://pratyatosa.com/?P=25>)
Ritviks apparently don’t understand Srila Prabhupada’s BG 3.9 purport. Krishna may actually be the guiding guru if you have the luck like Arjuna had, 5000 years ago. Apart from that, diksa initiation actually is only the formal initiation into the disciplic succession. Of unlimited more importance is the siksa instruction for spiritual elevation. Because there lies the spontaneous relation with Sri Krshna. Ritviks very much hoover on the administrative, formal platform and want to control without having any spiritual understanding. I know ritviks that do not even know what is material and what is spiritual. They also don’t understand Srila Vyasadeva’s position in the disciplic succession (who is still around in the Himalayas). They may be nice persons to talk with but they don’t have vijnana. At least not the ones I talked to.
Still, In Iskcon many many guru’s are only amara ajnaya guru’s. Not liberated, just acting on the strength of disciplic succession.
Actually, one needs to be liberated himself to understand these topics. A liberated person doesn’t need justification or legitimation from anyone to act as a guru. And we shouldn’t never forget Srila Prabhupada said; it’s all just for fun. So apart from being liberated some taste for Sri Krishna is very handy while discussing these topics.
Needless to say Iskcon GBC has to become much more refined and developed in their policies and service. But what is Iskcon GBC? It’s is highly impersonal body for managerial service.
Raja Gopala dasa says:
5. August 2013 at 11:09 am
The GBC should imho seriously reconsider their stance on the amara ajnaya guru. The amara ajnaya guru’s is not liberated, only his actions are liberated.
Mahesh: The BOGUS gbc are after SLAVERY of innocent devotees for disciples and screwing money and THIS is WHY they want to carry on with trying to fool others that they are liberated. THEY ARE NOT LIBERATED.
The ACTIONS are on liberated platform ie. free from actions of KARMA when one strictly follows Srila Prabhupada THE ONLY BONAFIDE CURRENT DIKSA GURU OF ISKCON otherwise by KARMA they will be FORCED to accept LOWER forms of life lizards, snakes, worms.
By usurping the PURE VAISNAVA BRAHMANA Srila Prabhupada’s UNIQUE position of Diksa Guru stealing his disciples, properties, temples, changing his books VERY serious KARMA reactions are awaiting the bogus gurus:
KRSNA BOOK 9 / The Story of King Nṛga
At this time, Lord Kṛṣṇa was present among His relatives who were members of the kṣatriya class. To teach them through the exemplary character of King Nṛga, He said: “Even though a kṣatriya king may be as powerful as fire, it is not possible for him to usurp the property of a brāhmaṇa and utilize it for his own purpose. If this is so, how can ordinary kings, who falsely think of themselves the most powerful beings within the material world, usurp a brāhmaṇa’s property? I do not think that taking poison is as dangerous as taking a brāhmaṇa’s property. For ordinary poison there is treatment–one can be relieved from its effects; but if one drinks the poison of taking a brāhmaṇa’s property, there is no remedy for the mistake. The perfect example was King Nṛga. He was very powerful and very pious, but due to the small mistake of unknowingly usurping a brāhmaṇa’s cow, he was condemned to the abominable life of a lizard. Ordinary poison affects only those who drink it, and ordinary fire can be extinguished simply by pouring water on it; but the araṇi fire ignited by the spiritual potency of a brāhmaṇa can burn to ashes the whole family of a person who provokes such a brāhmaṇa.” (Formerly, the brāhmaṇas used to ignite the fire of sacrifice not with matches or any other external fire but with their powerful mantras, called araṇi.) “If someone even touches a brāhmaṇa’s property, he is ruined for three generations. However, if a brāhmaṇa’s property is forcibly taken away, the taker’s family for ten generations before him and for ten generations after him will be subject to ruination. On the other hand, if someone becomes a Vaiṣṇava or devotee of the Lord, ten generations of his family before his birth and ten generations after will become liberated.”
Lord Kṛṣṇa continued: “If some foolish king who is puffed up by his wealth, prestige and power wants to usurp a brāhmaṇa’s property, it should be understood that such a king is clearing his path to hell; he does not know how much he has to suffer for such unwise action. If someone takes away the property of a very liberal brāhmaṇa who is encumbered by a large dependent family, then such a usurper is put into the hell known as Kumbhīpāka; not only is he put into this hell, but his family members also have to accept such a miserable condition of life. A person who takes away property which has either been awarded to a brāhmaṇa or given away by him is condemned to live for at least 60,000 years as miserably as an insect in stool. Therefore I instruct you, all My boys and relatives present here, do not, even by mistake, take the possession of a brāhmaṇa and thereby pollute your whole family. If someone even wishes to possess such property, let alone attempts to take it away by force, the duration of his life will be reduced. He will be defeated by his enemies, and after being bereft of his royal position, when he gives up his body he will become a serpent. A serpant gives trouble to all other living entities. My dear boys and relatives, I therefore advise you that even if a brāhmaṇa becomes angry with you and calls you by ill names or cuts you, still you should not retaliate. On the contrary, you should smile, tolerate him and offer your respects to the brāhmaṇa. You know very well that even I Myself offer My obeisances to the brāhmaṇas with great respect three times daily. You should therefore follow My instruction and example. I shall not forgive anyone who does not follow them, and I shall punish him. You should learn from the example of King Nṛga that even if someone unknowingly usurps the property of a brāhmaṇa, he is put into a miserable condition of life.”
Srimad-Bhagavatam : Canto 6: “Prescribed Duties for Mankind” : SB 6.7: Indra Offends His Spiritual Master, Brhaspati. : SB 6.7.14 : TRANSLATION :
Leaders who have fallen into ignorance and who mislead people by directing them to the path of destruction [as described in the previous verse] are, in effect, boarding a stone boat, and so too are those who blindly follow them. A stone boat would be unable to float and would sink in the water with its passengers. Similarly, those who mislead people go to hell, and their followers go with them.
Vidhyabhusan das : It is even more stupid to accept Srila Prabhupada as one’s diksa guru to escape seeking out a bona fide guru for the fear of fall down. A cheap so called escape route.
Mahesh: the STUPID as an ASS is one who refuses to accept Srila Prabhupada as CURRENT Diksa guru INSPITE of so much evidence:
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WHEN I order
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/03-08/editorials2603.htm
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Become Guru by Order, That’s All
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/04-10/editorials5990.htm
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What We Have Heard from the Spiritual Master, That is Living
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/08-10/editorials6409.htm
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Srila Prabhupada’s Disciple
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-07/editorials2265.htm
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Brief History of Guru Hoax in ISKCON
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-07/editorials2302.htm
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Diksa Given to Madhyama-adhikari is Not a Formality
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/11-07/editorials2223.htm
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Ritvik – **Representative**
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/10-07/editorials2084.htm
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Ritvik System Is Bonafide
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/02-09/editorials4085.htm
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Formalities
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/09-08/editorials3324.htm
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Brahmana (Kanistha)
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/03-09/editorials4258.htm
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The rescuer must be liberated
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-07/editorials2330.htm
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Tattva-darsinah
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/01-08/editorials2433.htm
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He is not a liberated person
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/02-08/editorials2491.htm
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The Case for Blind Uttama Adhikaris
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/06-10/editorials6158.htm
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Jesus Christ Predicts Appearance of Srila Prabhupada
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/07-10/editorials6258.htm
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Srila Prabhupada in Absentia BY: KURMA DASA (NOT THE CHEF)
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/04-10/editorials5991.htm
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Disciplic Succession
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/03-08/editorials2628.htm
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Satyam – Truthfulness
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/09-10/editorials6526.htm
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Mahajano yena gatah sa panthah
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/03-08/editorials2673.htm
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We Don’t Allow Any Literature Not Given by Liberated Soul
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/04-08/editorials2819.htm
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Srila Prabhupada’s Godbrothers
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-07/editorials2260.htm
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Analysis of Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Rupanuga
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-07/editorials2250.htm
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Was Sridhara Maharaja a bonafide guru?
http://www.iskcontimes.com/was-sridhara-maharaja-bona-fide-guru
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Sridhara Maharaja – EXPOSED
http://iskcontimes.com/sridhara-maharaja-exposed
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Conditioned soul Sridhara Maharaja Vs Srila Prabhupada the Mahabhagavata
http://iskcontimes.com/conditioned-soul-sridhara-maharaja-vs-srila-prabhupada-mahabhagavata
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Exposing Gaudiya Math Twister: Sankarshana dasa (Bhakta Suria)
http://iskcontimes.com/exposing-gaudiya-math-twister
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Bhakta Raj Defeats Ajamila
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/09-10/editorials6568.htm
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Bhakti Vikasa Interpolation Vs the Truth
http://www.iskcontimes.com/bhakti%20vikasa-interpolation-vs-the-truth
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Bhakti Vikasa is a SAHAJIYA
http://www.iskcontimes.com/bhakti-vikasa-is-a-SAHAJIYA
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Reply to Nimai Pandit Prabhu and Rocana das
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=33002#comment-16956
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CON Trick from the Bogus GBC
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=34797#more-34797
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Srila Prabhupada poisoned:
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/fotos/Prabhupada998.pdf
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Poison Issue tape Tamal Krishna’s voice is heard to say “PUT THE POISON IN THE MILK”
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/fotos/Prabhupada998.pdf
The following site has whispers of the poison givers:
To hear the whole CD of the Nov 10 1977 Conversations from beginning to end, please click here or http://www.mediafire.com/?ppvh77orok1r7vh
And for Individual highlighted louder version of the whole CD , please go to http://www.culturedbooks.com/audio/audio-address.html
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
HARE KRISHNA
JAI SRILA PRABHUPADA!
JAI ACHARYAS
JAYA BHAKTI DEVI
HARI BOL!
We should not be suprised. This I expect from every one who is misleading the neophytes and deviating them from Srila Prabhupada.
I want to know some facts:
Which site is purely transparent and dedicated to His DIvine Grace?
Iskcontimes.com, prabhupadanugas.eu, krishna.org, iskconirm.com, harekrsna.org(Pada), harekrsna.de, pratyatosa.com
I don’t like iskconirm much because they even criticise the Prabhupadanugas and do not attempt to spread Srila Prabhupada’s glories but they attempt to more criticise others. i agree that its necessary. they make it very harsh for newcomers to read and follow.
I believe that iskcontimes.com, prabhupadanugas.eu, harekrsna.org, etc are more revealing truth. My request to all followers of Srila Prabhupada or Prabhupadanugas to focus more on spreading glories of Srila Prabhupada and side by side pointing the defects in gbc and others.
I LIKE THIS SITE BECAUSE IT IS ALSO TRANSPARENT.
“Mahesh: The BOGUS gbc are after SLAVERY of innocent devotees for disciples and screwing money and THIS is WHY they want to carry on with trying to fool others that they are liberated. THEY ARE NOT LIBERATED.”
Individual members of the GBC may or may not be liberated, that’s not what it is about. The GBC is a managerial body, nothing more nothing less. They aren’t an absolute authority. The absolute authority is Visnu, of course. And for all philosophical and theological means within Iskcon, Srila Prabhupada’s sastra is, of course, absolute authority
Ritviks, apart from other serious deficiencies, don’t understand diksa is secondary to siksa, that is a most amusing point. Diksa is only formal initiation into the disciplic succession, siksa is for spiritual elevation.
First understand Vaisnava tattva, then start protesting, I would suggest. Another observation; how can you take diksa initiation from Srila Prabhupada when he is enjoying his eternal pastimes in Goloka Vrndavana? It’s not possible.
Another most important point is that Srila Prabhupada once said: “I do as I like”. And the acharya teaches by example, of course.
Neophytes very much depend on all kinds of formalities. That’s one of the characterisitcs of neophytes; no independency, no vijnana.
I am an Iskcon devotee voluntarily and therefore I will never become an insult to my own intelligence. That also means I am not a blind follower of the GBC. I don’t mind following this impersonal body when their managerial formalities are in line with Srila Prabhupada’s sastra.
HDG. Srila Prabhupada has many times in His manifested Lila emphasized to distribute books, distribute books, distribute books. Why ? Because His books initiate the enquiry into the mind of the inquisitive Readers who is sincere to find out further about Shr Krishna, the Almighty God. That is the beginning of the Initiation into the Parampara to find out further about the Absolute Truth.
This Initiation gives further knowledge (continued Siksha) which is also found in the Instructions of HDG. Srila Prabhupada’s association through His VANI via His Books, tapes, and so on.
So both the Diksha and Siksha are provided by HDG. Srila Prabhupada in His Spiritual Organization world wide in the association of the like minded Devotees – followers of Srila Prabhupada all over the world.
Is it not a FACT ?
Where is the problem to accept Srila Prabhupada as the Diksha and Siksha Guru in His World Wide Organization known as ISKCON ?????????????????????????
Only the less intelligent ( personally motivated people) may object. There is nothing any one can do about it.
Hope it meets well to the Readers.
Hari BOL.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Although meanwhile 43 ISKCON gurus proved as failure their was never much comment from GBC. Basically they just write an intern notification, dear ex-disciples, we very much regret to announce, your guru left with girl-friend and a trunk of temple laxmi….
That there is huge damage concerning ISKCON’s global reputation as society for genuine spiritual education never crosses so.’s mind, was brushed under the carpet.
In fact, GBC believes because we did not address this dilemma publicly nobody knows it, let’s go on as ever (head-in-the-sand or ostrich-like policy).
So there is no sense of responsibility how to upkeep Prabhupada’s standard of ISKCON’s reputation in the public eye. Except of ensuring their subjective well-being, GBC just doesnt care.
Reminds of one story Prabhupada told on July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach: “This human psychology is the same everywhere. In India many rich men’s son, until he has spoiled his father’s whole money, he is restless. And when he is turned to a beggar, then he is satisfied. I have seen many, spoiling father’s money like anything, and the same man, when he is beggar in the street, he feels happy.”
In our case, beggar=become a mouse again. Present Vaishnava institutions are obsessed to continue their restless program not to stop unless having reputation of Gaudiya-Vaishnavims ruined once and for all.
Just read GBC paper again, in summary what does it say, dear folks, don’t panic, this is quite normal, learn to live with it. Only problem, Westerners are not that stupid, temples are empty.
@Amar Puri
Oh really, how do you take diksa initiation from Srila Prabhupada? It’s not possible. He chants on the beads, gives personal instruction? How?
Further, you have to realise the contents of SP sastra, of course. Not just be a Prabhupada follower or an eternal formal sadhana bhakta. It’s all about realising Sri Krsna, not guru. Guru is included in Sri Krshna, like the rest of the real world. It’s the international society for Krsna consciousness, not the international society for Prabhupada consciousness.
Raja Gopala dasa:
Ritviks, apart from other serious deficiencies, don’t understand diksa is secondary to siksa, that is a most amusing point. Diksa is only formal initiation into the disciplic succession, siksa is for spiritual elevation.
Mahesh: Your problem is you do not read instead you say Ritviks this that other. You read our RITVIK based papers FIRST. There are 2 aspects 1) Formality initiation 2) Initiation at Madhyama stage.
Srila Prabhupada does NOT need to be here for simply conducting mere formality of fire sacrifice and name giving etc the Ritvik System was set up for that purpose.HOWEVER In the case where there is DIKSA give to a Madhyama adhikar stage Srila Prabhupada is EVER present in his MURTI form, BOOKS, Photo.
The Madhyama adhikari IS THE receipient OF DIKSA WHEN Diksa is Divya Janana hrdya prakosito Krsna is TRANSFERED to devotees heart FROM Mahabhagavata DIKSA GURU(Srila Prabhupada) this is WHEN your RELATIONSHIP to Krsna in daysa, sakhya, vatsalya, madhyura is REVEALED to you. THIS aspect is NOT mere formality.
For more details :
Diksa Given to Madhyama-adhikari is Not a Formality
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/11-07/editorials2223.htm
Note: Diksa is illustrated graphically here Vasudeva was on Suddha sattva platform this is why from him Krsna is transferred to Devaki
SB 10.2.18 Prayers by the Demigods for Lord Krsna in the Womb:
Thereafter, accompanied by plenary expansions, the fully opulent Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is all-auspicious for the entire universe, was transferred from the mind of Vasudeva to the mind of Devaki. Devaki, having thus been initiated by Vasudeva, became beautiful by carrying Lord Krsna, the original consciousness for everyone, the cause of all causes, within the core of her heart, just as the east becomes beautiful by carrying the rising moon.
PURPORT:
As indicated here by the word manastah, the Supreme Personality of Godhead was transferred from the core of Vasudeva’s mind or heart to the core of the heart of Devaki. We should note carefully that the Lord was transferred to Devaki not by the ordinary way for a human being, but by diksa, initiation. Thus the importance of initiation is mentioned here. Unless one is initiated by the right person, who always carries within his heart the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one cannot acquire the power to carry the Supreme Godhead within the core of one’s own heart.
SB 8.5.29 P The Demigods Appeal to the Lord for Protection:
Sattvam visuddham vasudeva-sabditam (Bhag. 4.3.23). In this material world, the three modes of material nature–goodness, passion and ignorance–prevail. Among these three, goodness is the platform of knowledge, and passion brings about a mixture of knowledge and ignorance, but the mode of ignorance is full of darkness. Therefore the Supreme Personality of Godhead is beyond darkness and passion. He is on the platform where goodness or knowledge is not disturbed by passion and ignorance. This is called the vasudeva platform. It is on this platform of vasudeva that Vasudeva, or Krsna, can appear.
SB 5.3.20 P Rsabhadeva’ s Appearance in the Womb of Merudevi, the Wife of King Nabhi:
Lord Visnu descends in His suddha-sattva form. Suddha-sattva refers to the sattva-guna which is never contaminated. In this material world, even the mode of goodness (sattva-guna) is contaminated by tinges of rajo-guna and tamo-guna. When sattva-guna is never contaminated by rajo-guna and tamo-guna, it is called suddha-sattva. Sattvam visuddham vasudeva-sabditam (Bhag. 4.3.23). That is the platform of vasudeva, whereby the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Vasudeva, can be experienced.
Note: Karma is taken by UTTAMA-ADHAKARI. Only he can DELIVER by definition. uttama-adhikari Sei taraye samsara.
Madhya 22.65 The Process of Devotional Service:
uttama-adhikari–the topmost devotee; sei–he; taraye samsara–can deliver the whole world.
Srila Prabhupada delivers. He GIVES Diksa. Formalities of initiation are done by his Ritvik Representatives.
Raja Gopala dasa:First understand Vaisnava tattva, then start protesting, I would suggest. Another observation; how can you take diksa initiation from Srila Prabhupada when he is enjoying his eternal pastimes in Goloka Vrndavana? It’s not possible.
Mahesh: As I have mentioned – you please read this carefully:
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/11-07/editorials2223.htm
Please also read the following papers that will help to clarify the PRABHUPADANUGA position (those who accept the Ritvik System):
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
WHEN I order
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/03-08/editorials2603.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Become Guru by Order, That’s All
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/04-10/editorials5990.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What We Have Heard from the Spiritual Master, That is Living
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/08-10/editorials6409.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Srila Prabhupada’s Disciple
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-07/editorials2265.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Brief History of Guru Hoax in ISKCON
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-07/editorials2302.htm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Diksa Given to Madhyama-adhikari is Not a Formality
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/11-07/editorials2223.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ritvik – **Representative**
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/10-07/editorials2084.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ritvik System Is Bonafide
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/02-09/editorials4085.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Formalities
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/09-08/editorials3324.htm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Brahmana (Kanistha)
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/03-09/editorials4258.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The rescuer must be liberated
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-07/editorials2330.htm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Tattva-darsinah
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/01-08/editorials2433.htm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
He is not a liberated person
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/02-08/editorials2491.htm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The Case for Blind Uttama Adhikaris
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/06-10/editorials6158.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Jesus Christ Predicts Appearance of Srila Prabhupada
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/07-10/editorials6258.htm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Srila Prabhupada in Absentia BY: KURMA DASA (NOT THE CHEF)
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/04-10/editorials5991.htm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Disciplic Succession
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/03-08/editorials2628.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Satyam – Truthfulness
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/09-10/editorials6526.htm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Mahajano yena gatah sa panthah
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/03-08/editorials2673.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
We Don’t Allow Any Literature Not Given by Liberated Soul
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/04-08/editorials2819.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Srila Prabhupada’s Godbrothers
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-07/editorials2260.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Analysis of Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Rupanuga
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-07/editorials2250.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Was Sridhara Maharaja a bonafide guru?
http://www.iskcontimes.com/was-sridhara-maharaja-bona-fide-guru
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Sridhara Maharaja – EXPOSED
http://iskcontimes.com/sridhara-maharaja-exposed
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Conditioned soul Sridhara Maharaja Vs Srila Prabhupada the Mahabhagavata
http://iskcontimes.com/conditioned-soul-sridhara-maharaja-vs-srila-prabhupada-mahabhagavata
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Exposing Gaudiya Math Twister: Sankarshana dasa (Bhakta Suria)
http://iskcontimes.com/exposing-gaudiya-math-twister
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bhakta Raj Defeats Ajamila
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/09-10/editorials6568.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bhakti Vikasa Interpolation Vs the Truth
http://www.iskcontimes.com/bhakti%20vikasa-interpolation-vs-the-truth
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bhakti Vikasa is a SAHAJIYA
http://www.iskcontimes.com/bhakti-vikasa-is-a-SAHAJIYA
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Reply to Nimai Pandit Prabhu and Rocana das
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=33002#comment-16956
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
CON Trick from the Bogus GBC
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=34797#more-34797
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Srila Prabhupada poisoned:
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/fotos/Prabhupada998.pdf
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Poison Issue tape Tamal Krishna’s voice is heard to say “PUT THE POISON IN THE MILK”
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/fotos/Prabhupada998.pdf
The following site has whispers of the poison givers:
To hear the whole CD of the Nov 10 1977 Conversations from beginning to end, please click here or http://www.mediafire.com/?ppvh77orok1r7vh
And for Individual highlighted louder version of the whole CD , please go to http://www.culturedbooks.com/audio/audio-address.html
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
@Gangadhara Dasa
I agree with you a lot regarding the unprofessional, pretty indifferent and other weird reactions & policies of the GBC regarding the position of the amara ajnaya guru. This ever returning issue causes a lot of difficulty for Iskcon. Rightly so, actually.
Still, I remain loyal to Iskcon because as an organisation it is still in a learning proces. And the GBC is just a managerial entity, nothing more. They don’t have absolute authority. In fact, it is a highly impersonal entity and I don’t need them one split second for my Krsna consciousness.
btw, I had contact with Madhu Pandit twice via email last year just to ask him some questions. He showed to be an aggressive, most arrogant person. It seemed he wanted to be guru very much, unasked for btw. Weird guy.
All the bossy (mis)managing “devotees” should become much, much more humble imo.
@ Raja Gopala dasa: “btw, In the spiritual world there are no guru’s, nor disciples. The liberated guru acts out of fun, nothing else.”
This might explain why ISKCONites consider fallen gurus as peanuts. However, Prabhupada stressed that the relationship between the spiritual master and disciple is eternal – not because the guru is as good as Krishna, but because he is the confidential servant of Krishna, eternally.
So obviously present disciples of ISKCON gurus have kind of an attitude to not take diksha-gurus too seriously.
How can it be otherwise? So many fell down already, GBC declares, we don’t assume liability for our voted in gurus, won’t underwrite anything concerning breach of agreement. So naturally present disciples have more pull.
Question is, why then saksadhari, ISKCON gurus demand to be worshiped as good as God? As soon someone proposes to call these gurus priests is like to set the cat among the pigeons?
@Mahesh Raja
It appears to me, the way you write, with many capital letters and many, many extensive references you are a rather passionate person. Passion on the pure platform is wonderful. On the material platform it’s not so wonderful.
Let me just ask you one question; do you actually know what is material and what is spiritual? Giving “millions” of references is one thing, it’s another thing wether you actually realise what is spiritual and what is material. The latter I find more interesting, to be honest.
Personally I conclude ritvik devotees have defective philosophical and theological conclusions. On the other hand, it is my conviction that the Iskcon GBC does have a lot to learn. For instance, the GBC members should realise very much that the GBC is a managerial service entity, no absolute authority whatsoever.
The main difficulty in this context however are the amara ajnaya guru’s. They are non liberated devotees who’s actions are liberated and are acting as guru on the strength of only disciplic succession, not on the basis of realised knowledge. This Srila Prabhupada has sanctioned and causes a lot of problems wihtin the Iskcon society.
It seems to me the Iskcon GBC somehow or other doesn’t have the intellectual and social capacity yet to properly facilitate, guide, and cut of if needed, these amara ajnaya guru’s. And have the proper internal and external communication of the risk involved when you accept such a guru as your diksa and siksa guru.
In the larger scope of things, Iskcon is still a very young spiritual organisation and Srila Prabhupada gave “shoes too big”, as he himself described his instructions. Indeed, he gave huge instructions to very young and inexpierienced vaisnavas. Nevertheless, Iskcon will proceed and become more mature as a spiritual organisation. Of this I have no doubt.
@Aksara das
Of course the relationship between guru and disciple is eternal but only when it has become mutually sponteneous, joyous, with fun and beyond all material considerations. Many sahajiya or dry jnana states of consciouness may still be around and “cherished” when one is not fully Krsna conscious.
The diksa guru generally is also the siksa guru. And as a disciple you always have the choice to fall for mahamaya. That is everyones’ constitutional right. Diksa is indeed “only” formal but a conditioned soul generally starts devotional service on the formal plane. Therefore it’s most important to get some actual taste, realise some siksa guidance.
btw, Krishna says in the BG, “I am the gambling of cheats”. So if you want to be cheated Krsna can facilitate that also, within Iskcon and outside of Iskcon. That’s definitely part of Krsna’s mercy because one should never stick to a mundane vision of whatever.
Pure bhakti is situated in the heart of the pure devotee, nowhere else. It’s far beyond all kinds of sadhana principles to which the kanistha and madyama adhikari very rigidly sticks. Needless to say that the fake guru lives in hell, nowhere else.
@Aksara das
Regarding your specific question,
“ISKCON gurus demand to be worshiped as good as God?”
Because the disciple, on his/her request, wants to become God conscious. So the disciple has to learn that all living entities are part of the Supreme. This Sri Krsna explaines in BG 4.35. The guru is just doing his devotional duty, that’s all.
Apart from anything else, I am curious to know wether Madhu Pandit from the Bangalore temple has in the mean time perhaps accumulated huge sums of money and land. And perhaps shrewdly manipulated managerial power over many, practically speaking, “disciples” who he dictates what to do and what not to do.
If he has, one may rightly ask oneself; is this Madnhu Pandit playing a smart but wicked game for aacumulation of wealth and political power under the garb of “being a hero and being a most humble devotee”?
Raja Gopala dasa: Let me just ask you one question; do you actually know what is material and what is spiritual?
Mahesh: Yes! read the articles below in the list.
Raja Gopala dasa: Personally I conclude ritvik devotees have defective philosophical and theological conclusions.
Mahesh: You can conclude whatever you want but we Prabhupadanugas who accept the bonafide Ritvik System just reject it OUTRIGHT! – simple as that! We have a solid basis THAT is the reason persons like yourself will not read our papers:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
WHEN I order
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/03-08/editorials2603.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Become Guru by Order, That’s All
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/04-10/editorials5990.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What We Have Heard from the Spiritual Master, That is Living
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/08-10/editorials6409.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Srila Prabhupada’s Disciple
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-07/editorials2265.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Brief History of Guru Hoax in ISKCON
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-07/editorials2302.htm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Diksa Given to Madhyama-adhikari is Not a Formality
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/11-07/editorials2223.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ritvik – **Representative**
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/10-07/editorials2084.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ritvik System Is Bonafide
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/02-09/editorials4085.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Formalities
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/09-08/editorials3324.htm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Brahmana (Kanistha)
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/03-09/editorials4258.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The rescuer must be liberated
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-07/editorials2330.htm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Tattva-darsinah
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/01-08/editorials2433.htm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
He is not a liberated person
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/02-08/editorials2491.htm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The Case for Blind Uttama Adhikaris
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/06-10/editorials6158.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Jesus Christ Predicts Appearance of Srila Prabhupada
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/07-10/editorials6258.htm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Srila Prabhupada in Absentia BY: KURMA DASA (NOT THE CHEF)
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/04-10/editorials5991.htm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Disciplic Succession
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/03-08/editorials2628.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Satyam – Truthfulness
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/09-10/editorials6526.htm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Mahajano yena gatah sa panthah
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/03-08/editorials2673.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
We Don’t Allow Any Literature Not Given by Liberated Soul
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/04-08/editorials2819.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Srila Prabhupada’s Godbrothers
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-07/editorials2260.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Analysis of Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Rupanuga
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-07/editorials2250.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Was Sridhara Maharaja a bonafide guru?
http://www.iskcontimes.com/was-sridhara-maharaja-bona-fide-guru
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Sridhara Maharaja – EXPOSED
http://iskcontimes.com/sridhara-maharaja-exposed
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Conditioned soul Sridhara Maharaja Vs Srila Prabhupada the Mahabhagavata
http://iskcontimes.com/conditioned-soul-sridhara-maharaja-vs-srila-prabhupada-mahabhagavata
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Exposing Gaudiya Math Twister: Sankarshana dasa (Bhakta Suria)
http://iskcontimes.com/exposing-gaudiya-math-twister
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bhakta Raj Defeats Ajamila
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/09-10/editorials6568.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bhakti Vikasa Interpolation Vs the Truth
http://www.iskcontimes.com/bhakti%20vikasa-interpolation-vs-the-truth
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bhakti Vikasa is a SAHAJIYA
http://www.iskcontimes.com/bhakti-vikasa-is-a-SAHAJIYA
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Reply to Nimai Pandit Prabhu and Rocana das
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=33002#comment-16956
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
CON Trick from the Bogus GBC
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=34797#more-34797
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Srila Prabhupada poisoned:
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/fotos/Prabhupada998.pdf
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Poison Issue tape Tamal Krishna’s voice is heard to say “PUT THE POISON IN THE MILK”
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/fotos/Prabhupada998.pdf
The following site has whispers of the poison givers:
To hear the whole CD of the Nov 10 1977 Conversations from beginning to end, please click here or http://www.mediafire.com/?ppvh77orok1r7vh
And for Individual highlighted louder version of the whole CD , please go to http://www.culturedbooks.com/audio/audio-address.html
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hearing: The Real Tradition ( by Vidura Prabhu)
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=37198
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Aksara das :So obviously present disciples of ISKCON gurus have kind of an attitude to not take diksha-gurus too seriously.
How can it be otherwise? So many fell down already, GBC declares, we don’t assume liability for our voted in gurus, won’t underwrite anything concerning breach of agreement.
Mahesh: their acceptance of ISKCON voted in “diksa” guru is more like having a pet monkey – just to show OTHERS that you have pet monkey. Monkey “diksa” connection.
@Mahesh Raja says
So apparently you cannot tell in your own words what is material and what is spiritual. Again you start referring to so many links, use exclamation marks and use words written in capital letters.
You have a preference for the mode of passion perhaps? The thing is, actual knowledge sprouts form living in the mode goodness, by Visnu’s mercy.
If you cannot simply explain in a few sentences what is material and what is spiritual you definitvely have a long way to go in spiritual life.
@Mahesh Raja
“Mahesh: their acceptance of ISKCON voted in “diksa” guru is more like having a pet monkey — just to show OTHERS that you have pet monkey. Monkey “diksa” connection.”
Becoming gross is an effect of being very clearly defeated.
“Mahesh: their acceptance of ISKCON voted in “diksa” guru is more like having a pet monkey — just to show OTHERS that you have pet monkey. Monkey “diksa” connection.”
Raja Gopala dasa: Becoming gross is an effect of being very clearly defeated.
Mahesh: Naaa prabhuji no defeat it is your POOR FUND OF KNOWLEDGE ! It is called calling a spade a SPADE! Truthfulness is quality of Brahmana:
Bhagavad-gita As It Is (1972) : Bg 10: The Opulence of the Absolute : Bg 10.4, Bg 10.5, Bg 10.4-5 : PURPORT :
Satyam, truthfulness, means that facts should be presented as they are for the benefit of others. Facts should not be misrepresented. According to social conventions, it is said that one can speak the truth only when it is palatable to others. But that is not truthfulness. The truth should be spoken in a straight and forward way, so that others will understand actually what the facts are. If a man is a thief and if people are warned that he is a thief, that is truth. Although sometimes the truth is unpalatable, one should not refrain from speaking it. Truthfulness demands that the facts be presented as they are for the benefit of others. That is the definition of truth.
Srimad-Bhagavatam : Canto 1:”Creation” : SB 1.14: The Disappearance of Lord Krsna : SB 1.14.34 : PURPORT :
By brahminical culture, the development of the dormant qualities of goodness, namely truthfulness, equanimity, sense control, forbearance, simplicity, general knowledge, transcendental knowledge, and firm faith in the Vedic wisdom, one can become a brāhmaṇa and thus see the Lord as He is. And after surpassing the brahminical perfection, one has to become a devotee of the Lord so that His loving affection in the form of proprietor, master, friend, son and lover can be transcendentally achieved. The stage of a devotee, which attracts the transcendental affection of the Lord, does not develop unless one has developed the qualities of a brāhmaṇa as above mentioned. The Lord is inclined to a brāhmaṇa of quality and not of false prestige. Those who are less than a brāhmaṇa by qualification cannot establish any relation with the Lord, just as fire cannot be kindled from the raw earth unless there is wood, although there is a relation between wood and the earth.
Dear Rob Knaapen and Raja Gopala Prabhus, you both seem to like to puff yourselves up by criticizing both the Ritviks and the ISKCONites, but you both speak in generalities. If you actually had anything to criticize, you would speak about specifics. Otherwise it’s just a lot of depressing, discouraging hot air, which does more harm than good.
Who are your respective gurus? If you have no bona fide guru who has given you formal initiation, then you are just like driftwood floating about. If you have gurus, but refuse to name them, then you are impersonalists (Mayavadis).
Other than your obvious mission to create needless dissension and to cloud the issues, what specific devotional service are the 2 of you doing to help push on this Hare Krishna Movement?
If you have an official position within ISKCON, or are living on ISKCON property, then it is your duty to follow the GBC, and not try to second guess them based upon your own mental gymnastics. Otherwise, you are simply hypocrites.
IMHO, just a bunch of worse-than-useless hot air in order to try to puff yourselves up!
Raja Gopala dasa writes ;
@Amar Puri
Oh really, how do you take diksa initiation from Srila Prabhupada? It’s not possible. He chants on the beads, gives personal instruction? How?
Further, you have to realise the contents of SP sastra, of course. Not just be a Prabhupada follower or an eternal formal sadhana bhakta. It’s all about realising Sri Krsna, not guru. Guru is included in Sri Krshna, like the rest of the real world. It’s the international society for Krsna consciousness, not the international society for Prabhupada consciousness.
DID YOU READ MY simple COMMENTS with RAPT attention, Raja Gopala dasa ???????
It does not look like, you did.
Giving you the benefit of doubt that you did read it but it seems that you have failed to understand in my comments what HDG. Srila Prabhupada emphasizes when He says ; ” Distribute books, Distribute books, Distribute Books “.
It shows that you have a very poor fund of understanding of the real knowledge because you are perhaps not following Srila Prabhupada at all.
My humble request to you is that before you write or ask any question, please make sure that your enquiry is appropriate in order to get the appropriate answer to your query. Otherwise you will remain continuously going in a circle for searching your answer.
Hope it meets you well.
Hari BOL.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
@Mahesh Raja
“Mahesh: their acceptance of ISKCON voted in “diksa” guru is more like having a pet monkey — just to show OTHERS that you have pet monkey. Monkey “diksa” connection.”
Making futile attemps to try to insult is truthful? Further, you don’t know at all how I worship my guru but you make the false claim you do is brahminical according to your analysis?
Tragical, very tragical, but definitely your personal choice as you’re the one who writes it.
@Amar Puri
Indeed, it’s most important to distribute Srila Pabhupada’s books. First of all of course in your own mind. My estimate is that the ritviks do more than just distributing Srila Prabhupada’s books. You have temples and prasadam distribution so that’s something else than only distributing books. Is it not?
@Amar Puri
If you please be so kind to answer a couple of questions I have for you; can you describe in a few sentences what is material and what is spiritual and where transformations take place? For me it is handy to know whether or not a devotee at least has spiritual knowledge, whether or not he has distributed spiritual knowledge in his own mind.
Up until know one Mahesh Raja is unable, or unwilling, to write in his own words, in a few sentences what is material and what is spiritual. Perhaps you don’t have any problem with it.
“Mahesh: their acceptance of ISKCON voted in “diksa” guru is more like having a pet monkey — just to show OTHERS that you have pet monkey. Monkey “diksa” connection.”
Raja Gopala dasa: Making futile attemps to try to insult is truthful? Further, you don’t know at all how I worship my guru but you make the false claim you do is brahminical according to your analysis?
Mahesh: You come to Prabhupadanuga website KNOWNING WELL that WE PRABHUPADANUGAS do NOT NOT NOT accept the bunch of hypocrites SO CALLED GURUS that have USURPED Srila Prabhupada’s Diksa Guru position in ISKCON. What did you expect that we throw rose petals at your feet when you REJECT Srila Prabhupada’s July 9th 1977 directive? THAT is not insult TO OUR BONAFIDE DIKSA GURU SRILA PRABHUPADA? Don’t preach to US about insults.
THIS IS A WAKE-CALL FOR YOU FOR TAKING SHELTER AT THE LOTUS FEET OF OUR BONAFIDE DIKSA GURU SRILA PRABHUPADA OR ELSE FACE THE CONSEQUENCES:
Note:…. “and their followers go with them.”
Srimad-Bhagavatam : Canto 6: “Prescribed Duties for Mankind” : SB 6.7: Indra Offends His Spiritual Master, Brhaspati. : SB 6.7.14 : TRANSLATION :
Leaders who have fallen into ignorance and who mislead people by directing them to the path of destruction [as described in the previous verse] are, in effect, boarding a stone boat, and so too are those who blindly follow them. A stone boat would be unable to float and would sink in the water with its passengers. Similarly, those who mislead people go to hell, and their followers go with them.
Hare Krsna!
@Raja Gopala dasa
It seems Raja Gopala came here to let off steam, to vent his anger. After all those years what is the cause? Although producing one scandal after the other ISKCON wants to go on like ever, sticking to their realization that Prabhupada has left and has to be replaced.
Ritviks point out that, no, Prabhupada did not leave, he is fully present in his teachings and we should not worry. Prabhupada gives us everything what is required to become fully Krishna conscious in this life time.
So for us Prabhupada is right here therefore we are full of confidence, assured that the demoniac activities directed against us will not be able to stop our devotional service, assured that demoniac attacks will not be able to harm us, for Prabhupada is always prepared to give us guidance.
So practically the whole world is problem for those who accept questionable gurus. But to us it is not problem. Because we see Prabhupada is right here and he will guide us. If there is problem, Prabhupada immediately has the answer. So we have no problem practically. Prabhupada will see to it.
Just like Arjuna was encouraged that nimitta-matram bhava savyasacin. “You don’t worry about your victory. I have already arranged.” So we should have such faith and conviction and let us try. Let us do very sincerely and seriously. Then Prabhupada will be right here to guide us more and more. So what more do we want? Prabhupada: “Just chant Hare Krishna and everything will be alright”.
The ritviks are good at interpreting the July 9th letter for the purpose of
performing their concocted post samadhi ritvik initiation ritual and claim
to be his initiated disciples after his departure thus minimizing
Srila Prabhupada’s intelligence.
Srila Prabhupada says below,
” Lecture on SB 7.6.1 — Montreal, June 10, 1968:
So Vedic literature does not say like that. It is order. You have to accept
it. If you do not understand, try to understand it. That is a different thing.
Just like in the Bhagavad-gita there is no question of interpretation. In the
beginning it is said:
dharma-ksetre kuru-ksetre
samaveta yuyutsavah
mamakah pandavas caiva
kim akurvata sañjaya (BG 1.1)
“My dear Sañjaya,” Dhrtarastra is asking his private secretary, Mr. Sañjaya,
“my sons and my brother’s sons, Pandava…” His brother’s name was Pandu,
therefore they are Pandava. Mamakah means “my sons.” Where is the scope for
interpretation? Kuru-ksetre.
There is still one place, you know better, you are Indian, there is place
Kuruksetra still existing. Dharmaksetra, that is a religious place, place
of pilgrimage. Still, people go for religious performances.
In the Vedas it is stated, kuru-ksetre dharmam acaret. One should perform
religious rituals in the Kuruksetra. So where is the scope for interpretation?
Interpretation means when you cannot understand something. Then you can
interpret.
But here Kuruksetra you can understand, dharma-ksetra you can understand,
mamakah you can understand, pandava you can understand, they assembled for
fighting you can understand. Why do you interpret? What is the necessity of
interpretation? That means he wants to show that he has got some better
intelligence than the speaker of the Bhagavad-gita. We do not accept such
things, nonsense.”
This less intelligent ritviks are trying to impress us by portraying themselves
to be more intelligent than Srila Prabhupada and of course by doing so these
bogus ritviks are saying that Srila Prabhupada is less intelligent.
By interpreting the July 9th letter and everything else that Srila Prabhupada
had said they are giving the impression that Srila Prabhupada did not know
how to give an instruction, was not straightforward, was cunning, sneaky, not
truthful.
Srila Prabhupada has never mentioned anywhere in his books or letters or
during his lectures that he wanted to continue to be the initiating guru
after his departure from this planet. Neither did he mentioned that in his
July 9th 1977 letter.
It is these bogus ritviks who are saying that Srila Prabhupada wanted to
continue as the initiating spiritual master after his departure by quoting
and interpreting from his books,letter, lectures etc. Which makes us wonder,
what is their motive for doing these?
Not a single quote that these bogus ritviks have given thus far indicates that
Srila Prabhupada wanted to continue as the initiating spiritual master
after his departure. All are just interpretations by these ritviks.
The instruction in the July 9th 1997 letter was given to follow when
Srila Prabhupada was still present and he was present a good five months
after it was issued. If Srila Prabhupada wanted the instruction given in
the July 9th letter to continue to be followed after his departure he would
have mentioned it so in the letter.
Just as how he has used the words to describe in his letter to Hansadutta
on October 1st 1974 as quoted below.
“Letter to Hamsaduta — Mayapur 1 October, 1974
From Madhavananda I have heard that there is some worship of yourself
by the other devotees. Of course it is proper to offer obeisances to
a Vaisnava, but not in the presence of the spiritual master. After the
departure of the spiritual master, it will come to that stage, but now
wait. Otherwise it will create factions.”
Here Srila Prabhupada is clearly saying by using these words ” but not in
the presence of the spiritual master. After the departure of the spiritual
master” but to these foolish ritviks everything that Srila Prabhupada says
must or has to be interpretated.
Iskcon/gbc says that the founder acarya Srila Prabhupada is the preeminent
guru and ultimate authority within their society and then go on and make
changes to his translated books. Hypocrites!
These foolish ritviks are no different. They loudly claim that Srila Prabhupada
is their diksa guru and then interpret everything that he says. They do not
accept whatever Srila Prabhupada says as it is. Idiots!
They interpret everything that Srila Prabhupada says to suit their cheating
agenda. Don’t blindly accept what these foolish ritvik wallahs are selling.
Don’t get cheated by these foolish ritviks.
As Srila Prabhupada says ” “A devotee should have intelligence to know who is
deviating. Surrender by your intelligence but don’t surrender your intelligence.”
And we also have some of his initiated disciples joining in and chanting
the ritvik ‘mantra’. To his initiated disciples, Srila Prabhupada told them
to advance sincerely and seriously in Krsna consciousness, qualify and become
gurus and preach to all the fallen condition souls. And these few foolish
disciples are monkeying around with concocted bogus ritvik ideas and
propagating them. How terribly foolish can they be. Fools!
Alright, Raja Gopala dasa ; You want to know what is matter and what is Spiritual in a few sentences.
OK. Here it is ;
” Matter as a temporary energy which is complete in itself as cosmic form of the Lord Shri Krishna is known as a reflection of the Spiritual. “.
To know more about it, please hear with RAPT attention from HDG. Srila Prabhupada in His Bhagavatagita As It Is 1972 edition and His VANI.
Hope it finds you well.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Raja Gopala dasa says:
6. August 2013 at 2:09 pm
@Mahesh Raja says
So apparently you cannot tell in your own words what is material
and what is spiritual. Again you start referring to so many links,
use exclamation marks and use words written in capital letters.
This fellow Mahesh ‘bogus yogi’ Raja is what one calls an empty can
making a lot of noise. All he does is quote and interpret whatever
Srila Prabhupada says instead of accepting them as it is. And he goes
on to declare Srila Prabhupada as his diksa guru.
”
Cornerstone Laying — Bombay, January 23, 1975:
Our present movement is based on Bhagavad-gita—Bhagavad-gita as it is. We don’t
interpret. We do not interpret foolishly because… I say purposefully this word
“foolishly,” that why should we interpret Krsna’s words? Am I more than Krsna? Or
did Krsna leave some portion to be explained by me by interpretation? Then what
is the importance of Krsna? If I give my own interpretation, thinking myself more
than Krsna, this is blasphemy. How I can become more than Krsna? If actually we
want to take advantage of this Bhagavad-gita, then we must take Bhagavad-gita as
it is. Just like Arjuna took. Arjuna, after hearing Bhagavad-gita, he said, sarvam
etam rtam manye: “I accept all the words, my dear Kesava, whatever You have said.
I accept them in toto, without any change.” This is understanding of Bhagavad-gita,
not that I take advantage of the Bhagavad-gita and I interpret in my foolish way
so that people will accept my philosophy. This is not Bhagavad-gita. There is no
question of interpretation in the Bhagavad-gita. Interpretation is allowed when
you cannot understand. When the things are clearly understood… If I say, “This
is microphone,” everyone understands this is microphone. Where is the necessity
of interpreting it? There is no necessity. This is foolishness, misleading. There
cannot be any interpretation in the Bhagavad-gita. It is… Everything is clear to
the point. Just like Bhagavan Krsna says… Krsna does not say that “You all become
sannyasi and give up your occupational duty.” No. Krsna says, sva-karmana tam abhyarcya
samsiddhih labhate narah (BG 18.46). You remain in your business. You remain your occupation.
There is no need of changing. But still, you can become Krsna conscious and make your
life successful. This is the message of Bhagavad-gita. Bhagavad-gita is not going to make
any topsy-turvy of the social order or spiritual order. No. It should be standardized
according to the authority. And the best authority is Krsna.”
HARE KRSNA
Raja Gopala dasa: Up until know one Mahesh Raja is unable, or unwilling, to write in his own words, in a few sentences what is material and what is spiritual. Perhaps you don’t have any problem with it.
Mahesh: Why my own words? Why not ACCEPT Srila Prabhupada’s OWN words the message is LOUD AND CLEAR for anyone who has some brain substance and is not a DEVIANT or CROOK:
Srila Prabhupada: I am in the initiator guru
1975 Correspondence : August : Letter to: Madhudvisa: — Detroit 4 August, 1975 : 75-08-04 :
The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I am in the initiator guru, and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform.
1968 Conversations : March, 1968 : Radio Interview — March 12, 1968, San Francisco : 680312iv.sf :
Prabhupāda: Yes, I AM the spiritual master OF THIS INSTITUTION, and ALL the members of the society, they’re supposed to be MY disciples. They follow the rules and regulations which I ask them to follow, and they are INITIATED BY ME spiritually.
One who is accepting discipline from Srila Prabhupada is Srila Prabhupada’s disciple.
In ISKCON we are ALL being DISCIPLINED by Srila Prabhupada (we receive instructions (DISCIPLINE) FROM Srila Prabhupada’s books. Even the most basic discipline, 16 rounds of Hare Krishna Mantra and four Regulative Principles are coming FROM Srila Prabhupada. Common sense — if you ARE being disciplined BY Srila Prabhupada then it follows you ARE Srila Prabhupada’s disciple. How can it be otherwise?
The MEANING of the word “disciple”
Srila Prabhupada’s Morning Walk, March 8, 1976 in Mayapur:
Prabhupada: “Discipline… Disciple means discipline. The word discipline comes from disciple, or disciple comes from discipline. So unless there is discipline, there is no question of disciple. This discipline must… That should be uniform. Otherwise, sisya… sisya, the word sisya, it comes from the root, verb, sas-dhatu. sas. sas means ruling. From this word, sasana. Sasana means government. sastra. sashtra means weapon, and sastra, scripture, and sisya… These things have come from the one root sas-dhatu. So sas-dhatu means ruling under discipline. There is another English word, that “Obedience is the first law of discipline,” or something. They say, “Obedience is the first law of discipline”? So I am right? “Obedience is…”? That is the…
Tamala Krsna: Yes, that’s more or less what it is.
Prabhupada: No, what is the word, exact. There is an English word. “Obedience is the first law of discipline.” So unless there is obedience, there cannot be any discipline. And unless there is discipline, there is no question of disciple. DISCIPLE MEANS ONE WHO FOLLOWS DISCIPLINE.”
Discipline comes from Srila Prabhupada. We are actually being disciplined by Srila Prabhupada. It is Srila Prabhupada who has given us the regulative principles of no meat, fish or eggs; no intoxication (including tea and coffee), no illicit sex, and no gambling. It is Srila Prabhupada who has made it a regulative principle for us to chant sixteen rounds on the beads HARE KRSNA HARE KRSNA KRSNA KRSNA HARE HARE /HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE.
Srila Prabhupada’s books contain all the instructions, the guidance required for us to get ourselves out of the clutches of the modes of material nature. In fact, Srila Prabhupada is personally present as his books.
Caitanya-caritamra, Adi 1, Text 35:
“There is NO DIFFERENCE between the spiritual masters instructions and the spiritual master himself.”
Since the instructions of the spiritual master and the spiritual master are not different, one can be the disciple of Srila Prabhupada by following his discipline and can be considered Srila Prabhupada’s disciple. Another point is he can be considered both direct disciple and not direct simultaneously, because Srila Prabhupada is still present in his instruction form (his books). The following example will illustrate the point.
Srila Krsnadasa kaviraja is the example of both direct and not direct disciple simultaneously. (THE PHILOSOPHY OF SIMULTANEOUS ONENESS AND DIFFERENCE).
Caitanya-caritamra, Adi 1:
“A direct disciple of Srila Rupa Gosvami was Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami. The author of Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami, stands as the DIRECT DISCIPLE of Srila Rupa Gosvami and Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami. The direct disciple of Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami was Srila Narottama dasa Thakura, who accepted Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti as his servitor. Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura accepted Srila Jagannatha dasa Babaji, who initiated Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, who in turn initiated Srila Gaurakishore dasa Babaji, the spiritual master of Om Visnupada Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja, the divine master of our humble self. Since we belong to this chain of disciplic succession from Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, this edition of Sri Caitanya-caritamrta will contain nothing newly manufactured by our tiny brains, but only remnants of food originally eaten by the Lord Himself.”
Caitanya-caritamra, Antya 19.102:
Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami was not actually a direct disciple of Srila Rupa Gosvami, but he FOLLOWED THE INSTRUCTIONS given by Srila Rupa Gosvami in Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu. He therefore ACTED ACCORDING TO THE DIRECTIONS of Rupa Gosvami and prayed in every chapter for his mercy.
Who is Srila Prabhupada’s Disciple?
Srila Prabhupada’s Morning Walk, June 13, 1976, Detroit:
Prabhupada: “Who is my disciple? First of all let him FOLLOW STRICTLY THE DISCIPLINED RULES.
Devotee (2): As long as one is following, then he is…
Prabhupada: Then he is all right.”
Srila Prabhupada Letter to Bhaktijana, September 21, 1972:
“You do not require to worry as I shall never leave you, you are my disciple and I am your spiritual master, so there is no question, AS LONG AS you follow my instructions, that I shall ever leave you. Just remember under all circumstances to chant sixteen rounds of japa daily, offer your prasadam to Krsna, and do all of the things which you already know, as you are senior disciple. These things will protect you under all conditions, without any doubt.”
Srila Prabhupada Letter to Madhudvisa, November 7, 1975:
“SO LONG AS one follows the principles, he continues to be my disciple.”
Srila Prabhupada Letter to Tusta Krsna, November 9, 1975:
“SO LONG AS one continues to follow the rules and regulations, he continues to be my disciple wherever he may be.”
Srila Prabhupada Letter, July 9, 1969:
“Out of the ten kinds of offenses, the number one offense is to disobey the orders of the Spiritual Master. The instructions given to the disciple by the Spiritual Master at the time of initiation should be strictly followed. That will make one advance to the spiritual path. But if one deliberately defies such instructions, then his advancement is hampered from the very beginning. THIS DEFYING MEANS TO DISCONNECT THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE SPIRITUAL MASTER. AND ANYONE WHO DEFIES AND THEREFORE DISCONNECTS THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE SPIRITUAL MASTER can hardly expect the assistance of the Spiritual Master life after life.”
Srila Prabhupada Letter to Cidananda, November 25, 1973:
“Please always try to REMEMBER ME BY MY TEACHINGS AND WE SHALL ALWAYS BE TOGETHER. Just like I have written in the first publications of Srimad-Bhagavatam, “The spiritual Master lives forever by His divine instruction and the disciple lives with him.”, because I have always served my Guru Maharaja and followed His teachings I am now even never separated from Him. Sometimes Maya may come and try to interfere but we must not falter, we must always follow the chalked out path layed down by the great acharya’s and in the end you will see.”
Who is NOT Srila Prabhupada’s disciple?
Initiation does not bear any meaning
Srila Prabhupada Letter, January 11, 1970:
“Regarding your question of an initiated person falling prey to the maya, the answer is that so long we are in this material world, there is always chance of being spoiled by Maya, so we must stick with vow to the Lotus Feet of Krishna. An initiated devotee is given the chance for becoming free from the entanglement of karma wheel. Initiated means beginning, not perfection. The Spiritual Master’s business is to guide him to the perfectional point. But if one does not strictly follow the guidance of a bonafide Spiritual Master HIS INITIATION DOES NOT BEAR ANY MEANING. The initiation performance is an agreement by the disciples to abide by the order of the Spiritual Master. Therefore, if the Spiritual Master is bonafide and the disciple is serious to abide by His order, then the success is sure.”
Otherwise they are NOT my disciples
Srila Prabhupada Letter to Raja Laksmi, February 17, 1976:
“My advise is always chant 16 rounds minimum and follow the four regulative principles. All of my disciples must agree on this point OTHERWISE THEY ARE NOT MY DISCIPLES.”
Against the principle
Srila Prabhupada Letter to Dhrstaketu, July 17, 1976:
“Unless absolutely necessary, one should keep head shaven and not allow the hair to grow long. If absolutely necessary, one can dress like an American gentleman, with short hair, but long hair is prohibited. The reason that one with long hair is not my disciple is because he is AGAINST THE PRINCIPLE. Unless absolutely necessary one should keep hair short, and if necessary one can dress like an American gentleman with short hair. It is not expected that everyone will join. For that reason we can’t compromise. The tendency is there to be hippy. When the acaryas are seen with beard, that is during Caturmasya, July-September. If observed strictly there is not simply a beard. There are so many rules and regulations. One can’t eat a variety of foods. Only kitri prepared and poured on the floor, and then licked up. There are so many other rules also. THAT IS NOT ALWAYS THAT THEY KEPT BEARD.”
There are many so-called Prabhupada disciples – but only in name. They in fact decline to follow Srila Prabhupada’s discipline hence they are Srila Prabhupada disciples in name only. They show superficial lip service to Srila Prabhupada.
Disciple in name only
Srila Prabhupada Morning Walk, New York, July 10, 1976:
Prabhupada: And the Bon Maharaja is his follower. HE’S IN NAME a disciple of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, BUT HE’S A SERVANT OF Vivekananda.
Tamala Krsna: He’s very similar to him.
Prabhupada: He’s a great appreciator of Vivekananda. He has put in his curriculum Vivekananda philosophy, Gandhi philosophy. Rascal, what philosophy they have got?
STEALING SRILA PRABHUPADA’S DISCIPLES, HIS PROPERTIES, FOR ONESELF (BECOMING SELF MADE GURU-BY BOGUS GBC APPOINTMENT OF 2/3 MAJORITY VOTES) HAS GRAVE CONSEQUENCES:
Krsna Book, Chapter 64 – The Story of King Nrga:
At this time, Lord Krsna was present among His relatives who were members of the ksatriya class. To teach them through the exemplary character of King Nrga, He said, “Even though a ksatriya king may be as powerful as fire, it is not possible for him to usurp the property of a brahmana and utilize it for his own purpose. If this is so, how can ordinary kings, who falsely think of themselves as the most powerful beings within the material world, usurp a brahmana’s property? I do not think that taking poison is as dangerous as taking a brahmana’s property. For ordinary poison there is treatment–one can be relieved from its effects; but if one drinks the poison of taking a brahmana’s property, there is no remedy for the mistake. THE PERFECT EXAMPLE IS KING NRGA. HE WAS VERY POWERFUL AND VERY PIOUS, BUT DUE TO THE SMALL MISTAKE OF UNKNOWINGLY USURPING A BRAHMANA’S COW, HE WAS CONDEMNED TO THE ABOMINABLE LIFE OF A LIZARD. Ordinary poison affects only those who drink it, and ordinary fire can be extinguished simply by pouring water on it; BUT THE ARANI FIRE IGNITED BY THE SPIRITUAL POTENCY OF A BRAHMANA CAN BURN TO ASHES THE WHOLE FAMILY OF A PERSON WHO PROVOKES SUCH A BRAHMANA.” (Formerly, the brahmanas used to ignite the fire of sacrifice not with matches or any other external fire but with their powerful mantras, called arani.) “IF SOMEONE EVEN TOUCHES A BRAHMANA’S PROPERTY, HE IS RUINED FOR THREE GENERATIONS. HOWEVER, IF A BRAHMANA’S PROPERTY IS FORCIBLY TAKEN AWAY, THE TAKER’S FAMILY FOR TEN GENERATIONS BEFORE HIM AND TEN GENERATIONS AFTER HIM WILL BECOME SUBJECT TO RUINATION. On the other hand, if someone becomes a Vaisnava, or devotee of the Lord, ten generations of his family before his birth and ten generations after will become liberated.”
Lord Krsna continued: “If some foolish king who is puffed up by his wealth, prestige and power wants to usurp a brahmana’s property, it should be understood that such a king is clearing his path to hell; he does not know how much he has to suffer for such unwise action. If someone takes away the property of a very liberal brahmana who is encumbered by a large dependent family, then such a usurper is put into the hell known as Kumbhipaka; not only is he put into this hell, but his family members also have to accept such a miserable condition of life. A PERSON WHO TAKES AWAY PROPERTY WHICH HAS EITHER BEEN AWARDED TO A BRAHMANA OR GIVEN AWAY BY HIM IS CONDEMNED TO LIVE FOR AT LEAST 60,000 YEARS AS MISERABLY AS AN INSECT IN STOOL. THEREFORE I INSTRUCT YOU, ALL MY BOYS AND RELATIVES PRESENT HERE, DO NOT, EVEN BY MISTAKE, TAKE THE POSSESSION OF A BRAHMANA AND THEREBY POLLUTE YOUR WHOLE FAMILY. IF SOMEONE EVEN WISHES TO POSSESS SUCH PROPERTY, LET ALONE ATTEMPTS TO TAKE IT AWAY BY FORCE, THE DURATION OF HIS LIFE WILL BE REDUCED. HE WILL BE DEFEATED BY HIS ENEMIES, AND AFTER BEING BEREFT OF HIS ROYAL POSITION, WHEN HE GIVES UP HIS BODY HE WILL BECOME A SERPENT. A SERPENT GIVES TROUBLE TO ALL OTHER LIVING ENTITIES. My dear boys and relatives, I therefore advise you that even if a brahmana becomes angry with you and calls you by ill names or curses you, still you should not retaliate. On the contrary, you should smile, tolerate him and offer your respects to the brahmana. You know very well that even I Myself offer My obeisances to the brahmanas with great respect three times daily. You should therefore follow My instruction and example. I shall not forgive anyone who does not follow them, and I shall punish him. You should learn from the example of King Nrga that even if someone unknowingly usurps the property of a brahmana, he is put into a miserable condition of life.”
It has been a common practice among Srila Prabhupada’s Godbrothers to steal Srila Prabhupada’s disciples by trickery. Sridhara Maharaja and Puri Maharaja are also known to have re-initiated Srila Prabhupada’s disciples. Narayana Maharaja is also a culprit in this deplorable un-Vaisnava, offensive, insulting conduct. This act proves they are conditioned souls.
From the letter below one can see that history repeats itself; because they are conditioned souls they ventured to initiate Srila Prabhupada’s disciples. Thus, they were caught out as Srila Prabhupada clearly says of the action: “SO IT IS DELIBERATE TRANSGRESSION OF VAISNAVA ETIQUETTES AND OTHERWISE A DELIBERATE INSULT TO ME. I DO NOT KNOW WHY HE HAS DONE LIKE THIS BUT NO VAISNAVA WILL APPROVE OF THIS OFFENSIVE ACTION.”
Srila Prabhupada Letter to Mukunda, March 26, 1968:
“In meantime, I have also received one letter which is very depressing from Hrsikesa. I understand that he has been induced by Bon Maharaja to be initiated by him for giving him shelter, and this foolish boy has accepted his inducement. This isn’t very happy news, and I have replied Hrsikesa’s letter in the following words, which please take note, and in the future, we shall be very cautious about them. “My Dear Hrsikesa, Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter of March 14, 1968, and I am greatly surprised. I AM GREATLY SURPRISED FOR BON MAHARAJA’S INITIATING YOU IN SPITE OF HIS KNOWING THAT YOU ARE ALREADY INITIATED BY ME. SO IT IS DELIBERATE TRANSGRESSION OF VAISNAVA ETIQUETTES AND OTHERWISE A DELIBERATE INSULT TO ME. I DO NOT KNOW WHY HE HAS DONE LIKE THIS BUT NO VAISNAVA WILL APPROVE OF THIS OFFENSIVE ACTION. I very much appreciate your acknowledgement of my service unto you and you will always have my blessings, BUT YOU MUST KNOW THAT YOU HAVE COMMITTEE. A GREAT BLUNDER. I do not wish to discuss on this point more elaborately now, but if you are desirous to know further about it, I shall be glad to give you more enlightenment. Mukunda is not here. He has gone to L.A. Hope you are well.” If Hrsikesa writes you letter I think you may avoid reply. I DO NOT APPROVE BOTH HRSIKESA’S AND BON MAHARAJA’S THIS OFFENSIVE ACTION. Hoping you are both well.”
In venturing to initiate Srila Prabhupada’s disciples —they could not even have understood the philosophy properly. As It is clearly stated: A DEVOTEE MUST HAVE ONLY ONE INITIATING SPIRITUAL MASTER BECAUSE IN THE SCRIPTURES ACCEPTANCE OF MORE THAN ONE IS ALWAYS FORBIDDEN. For them to Initiate Srila Prabhupada’s disciples they would be falling into a trap of REJECTING Srila Prabhupada as the Initiating Guru—DIRECT INSULT-committed BOTH by the so-called disciple of Srila Prabhupada and their conditioned soul “gurus”.
Caitanya-caritamra, Adi 1.35:
The Spiritual Masters
“The expert spiritual master knows well how to engage his disciple’s energy in the transcendental loving service of the Lord, and thus he engages a devotee in a specific devotional service according to his special tendency. A DEVOTEE MUST HAVE ONLY ONE INITIATING SPIRITUAL MASTER BECAUSE IN THE SCRIPTURES ACCEPTANCE OF MORE THAN ONE IS ALWAYS FORBIDDEN.”
ALL GLORIES TO OUR BONAFIDE JAGAT DIKSA
AND SIKSA GURU SRILA PRABHUPADA!
HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE
HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE
As members of ISKCON I wonder if now is really the appropriate time to be poking noses over the neighbour’s fence to criticize the mess perceived in another’s back yard.
As the latest guru fall down saga unfolds it’s interesting to note the now familiar pattern wherein a man accumulates vast wealth living a life of idle luxury amongst his many servants – all based on his projected purity – only to be exposed later as a fraud. So far at least in every case I know of the actual amount of money embezzled by these imitators is never revealed, nor is any of it ever recovered or repaid.
When that which was stolen is retained and secreted away it makes it difficult to believe that what we are seeing is a ‘simple fall’ and even more difficult to sincerely pray for the well-being of this poor (rich) soul.
Sadly the current fallible ISKCON system remains in place and so history tells us that this kind of scam will doubtless occur again and again. The false guru or the cheating swami accumulates his retirement fund and get’s to walk away. Easy!
JFS
Saksigopal das says: So practically the whole world is problem for those who accept questionable gurus. But to us it is not problem. Because we see Prabhupada is right here and he will guide us. If there is problem, Prabhupada immediately has the answer. So we have no problem practically. Prabhupada will see to it.
Excellent!
One indication to me that I am on the right track is that Lord Sri Krishna is constantly making arrangements for my humble service to Srila Prabhupada.
For example, last week I ordered almost $50 worth of USB 3.0 extension cables, but these items have been “Out for delivery” for 3 days now! Obviously, they have been lost or stolen. This has never happened to me before!
Yesterday, I discovered that I can do everything that I need to do with my stock of USB 2.0 extension cables because the extra speed capability is totally unnecessary. So I asked for a full refund, and they said that they are willing to give me one. Almost $50 worth of Krishna’s precious Laksmi Devi saved by His divine arrangement!
@Mahesh Raja
What is the problem me visiting this site? It’s open to everyone, is it not?
Within Iskcon one at least take shelter from Srila Prabhupada. He is the siksa guru for all Iskcon devotees. And siksa is what it is about, factually. Diksa initiation is only the formal initiation into the disciplic succesion, most important for neophyte devotees. Of course, the siksa guru may be more than one devotee, Sri Krsna is no miser.
The thing is to understand and realise the Vaisnava tattva, become a vijnani. Otherwise, not having realised knowledge, in your case you run the risk of just make futile attemps trying to insult, threaten and bully others but actually only make a fool of … yourself. That’s most tragical. And funny. btw Why are so addicted using capital letters? Also, you haven’t been able or willing, at my humble request, to write in a few sentences to explain in your own words what is matter and what is spirit. Perhaps you prefer ritualism instead of realising vaisnava tattva? It sure looks that way to me.
Anyway, I hope you become realised in vaisnava tattva and with that become soft hearted, gentle, and somewhat more diplomatic. If you already are than I am wrong in my conclusion you don’t have these qualities at present. Perhaps you’re still young in terms of age?
Of course, Sri Visnu is the one who grants actual liberation, no one else. And only from liberation pure bhakti begins.
@Amar Puri
Thank you for your information about what is matter and what is spiritual. Very nice.
“Cosmic” btw means “chaotic”. As long as we’re not realised in eternal knowledge we remain in a chaotic state, mentally. It is my humble observation some commenting on this site still have a very “cosmic mind”. And seem to prefer it that way.
@Pratyatosa dasa (ACBSP)
Is it not that Sri Krishna also arranges for all your so called misfortunes, tragedies, death?
@Saksigopal das
“It seems Raja Gopala came here to let off steam, to vent his anger.”
Huh? I only visit this site to try to get some discussion on vaisnava tattva. About Ikcon GBC and the amara ajnaya guru I have written the following on this site:
“It is my conviction that the Iskcon GBC does have a lot to learn. For instance, the GBC members should realise very much that the GBC is a managerial service entity, no absolute authority whatsoever.
The main difficulty in this context however are the amara ajnaya guru’s. They are non liberated devotees who’s actions are liberated and are acting as guru on the strength of only disciplic succession, not on the basis of realised knowledge. This Srila Prabhupada has sanctioned and causes a lot of problems wihtin the Iskcon society.
It seems to me the Iskcon GBC somehow or other doesn’t have the intellectual and social capacity yet to properly facilitate, guide, and cut of if needed, these amara ajnaya guru’s. And have the proper internal and external communication of the risk involved when you accept such a guru as your diksa and siksa guru.
In the larger scope of things, Iskcon is still a very young spiritual organisation and Srila Prabhupada gave “shoes too big”, as he himself described his instructions. Indeed, he gave huge instructions to very young and inexpierienced vaisnavas. Nevertheless, Iskcon will proceed and become more mature as a spiritual organisation. Of this I have no doubt.”
@Pratyatosa Dasa (ACBSP)
I am an initiated Iskcon devotee, not living on Iskcon premises. Given the nature of some commenters on this site I won’t tell you the name of my guru since I am fully convinced these commenters will otherwise start blaspheming. So for the protection of these people I have come to this conclusion.
btw What makes you state that anyone living on Iskcon premises has to follow the GBC, it’s their duty?
I have lived on Iskcon premises and also then I didn’t agree on everything the GBC concluded/stated. Remember, the GBC is the highest Iskcon managerial authority, no absolute authority whatsoever. And their policies should be in compliance with Srila Prabhupada’s sastra. When the specific information is given in Srila Prabhupada’s sastra, of course.
Factually I will have a meeting with a GBC member shortly to ask for clarification on some amendmends being made by the GBC lately. This because I regard these amendments as being incorrect/incomplete with the information I have.
Luckily within Iskcon there is scope for istha gosthi, discussion. Based on sastra and based on vaisnava ksatriya and vaisnava brahminical culture.
Raja Gopala dasa: Diksa initiation is only the formal initiation into the disciplic succesion, most important for neophyte devotees.
Mahesh: There are TWO aspects in initiation (not just formality) :
1) Formality (Pancaratriki) – name giving ceremony etc
2) Diksa(Knowledge) – spiritual initiation received by Madhyama adhikari
As shown previously in my article”, the Ritvik ***Representative*** (http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/10-07/editorials2084.htm) was to allow for the function of Formality. So a question may be raised, why formality?
The answer is very simple: the Diksa given to Madhyama adhikari is NOT a formality. Initiation offered to neophyte/Kanistha IS a Formality. THIS is the BIG difference.
In conformity with the establishment of the formality of a Ritvik System 9th July 1977, Srila Prabhupada’s signed directive to the society the Pancaratriki regulations were followed in this initiation. “THE STUDENTS AND DISCIPLES ARE INITIATED ACCORDING TO AUTHORIZED PANCARATRIKI REGULATIONS”
This is a general principle. However, A person who is liberated acharya and guru cannot commit any mistake, but there are persons who are less qualified or not liberated, but still can act as ‘guru’ and ‘acharya’ by strictly following the disciplic succession.
(Lecture 26th April, 1968. New York)
Whether one uses the terms OFFICIATING ACARYA OR RITVIK OR REPRESENTATIVE they mean the SAME ie to ACT ON BEHALF OF ACARYA. So this is act as “guru” and “Acarya”. They ACTING as OFFICIATING ACARYA OR RITVIK REPRESENTATIVE OF ACARYA. They are NOT acarya but acting as in capacity to OFFICIATE on behalf of the ACARYA. This is very clear. Srila Prabhupada has in all front cover of the Books:
Founder-Acarya His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. The hypen means Srila Prabhupada IS the ACARYA of ISKCON not simply its Founder consequently, one who wants to accept the position of formality of initiating others can ONLY do so ON BELHALF of Srila Prabhupada the ACARYA. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY. Srila Prabhupada’s Diksa giving position in ISKCON as long as it exists is IRREPLACEABLE.
Srila Prabhupada’s introduction of Ritvik Initiations (PANCARATRIKI) is fully justified as the formalities may be changed ” can also be initiated according to circumstances.”
SB 4.8.54 Purport:
Those who are not actually in the line of acaryas, or who personally have no knowledge of how to act in the role of acarya, unnecessarily criticize the activities of the ISKCON movement in countries outside of India. The fact is that such critics cannot do anything personally to spread Krsna consciousness. If someone does go and preach, taking all risks and allowing all considerations for time and place, it might be that there are changes in the manner of worship, but that is not at all faulty according to sastra. Srimad Viraraghava Acarya, an acarya in the disciplic succession of the Ramanuja-sampradaya, has remarked in his commentary that candalas, or conditioned souls who are born in lower than sudra families, can also be initiated according to circumstances. The formalities may be slightly changed here and there to make them Vaisnavas.
68-06-12. Letter: whom it may concern
In each center we have got hundreds of disciples and followers, and our initiated disciples are strictly following the restrictions as principle, as follows: (1) no illicit sex life, (2) no intoxication, including coffee, tea, and cigarettes, (3) no gambling, (4) no meat eating. We have got both Brahmacaris and Householders as disciples, and all of them are following the above mentioned principles. THE STUDENTS AND DISCIPLES ARE INITIATED ACCORDING TO AUTHORIZED PANCARATRIKI REGULATIONS. According to Srimad-Bhagavatam and Bhagavad-gita, anyone, including so-called low born men, who may take shelter unto the Lotus Feet of Lord Krishna or His devotees, is sanctified by initiation process.
kirata-hunandhra-pulinda-pulkasa
abhira-sumbha yavanah khasadayah
ye ‘nye ca papa yad-apasrayasrayah
sudhyanti tasmai prabhavisnave namah
How such thing can be possible is explained in the Srimad-Bhagavatam that by special all-pervading power of Visnu this is possible.
721027ND.VRN Lecture
So we are trying to follow Sanatana Gosvami. By diksa-vidhanena, by imitating persons any, from anywhere. It does not matter. Because in this age, Kali-yuga, the diksa-vidhana is performed according, according to Pancaratrika-vidhi. Not Vaidika-vidhi. Vaidika-vidhi is very strict. Unless one is bona fide son of a dvija, the initiation was not given. To the sudras, there was no initiation. A brahmana ksatriya, vaisya. So these are the Vedic process. SO IN THE KALI-YUGA, BECAUSE IT IS TO BE UNDERSTOOD THAT EVERYONE IS A SUDRA, THEREFORE VAIDIKA-VIDHANA CANNOT BE APPLIED. VAIDIKA-VIDHANA REQUIRES THAT ONE MUST BE BORN BY A BRAHMANA, KSATRIYA. THEN HE’S ELIGIBLE FOR BEING INITIATED. BUT IN THE KALI-YUGA, THAT IS NOT POSSIBLE. THEREFORE THE PANCARATRIKI-VIDHI IS ACCEPTED.
680724IN.MON Lecture
sruti-smrti-puranadi-
pancaratriki vidhim vina
aikantiki harer bhaktir
utpatayaiva kalpate
This is the definition given by Srila Rupa Gosvami, that to become a devotee of the Lord, Krsna, one has to follow the principles of sruti and smrti, and pancaratriki-vidhi. Especially in this age, Kali-yuga, there is no Vedic vidhi. Because Vedic vidhi is lost. Formerly, initiation was offered to a person who is actually born of a brahmana father. Otherwise… Or the higher caste, the brahmanas, the ksatriyas, and the vaisyas, they were offered initiation, and the sudras were not offered. That was the Vedic system. But in this age the sastra says that kalau sudra sambhava. IN THIS AGE OF KALI PRACTICALLY THERE IS NO MORE ANY BRAHMANA, KSATRIYA, OR VAISYA. MAYBE BY NAME, BUT IN QUALIFICATION THEY ARE NOT EXISTING. EVERYONE IS SUPPOSED TO BE SUDRA. SO IN KALI-YUGA THE PANCARATRIKI-VIDHI IS ACCEPTED. The pancaratriki-vidhi is also Vedic vidhi, corollary, given by Narada Mahamuni. But it is accepted by the Vedic followers, pancaratriki-vidhi.
Pancaratriki-vidhi means if any one has a little inclination for spiritual development, he should be given chance. This initiation means to give chance. The Bhagavata says that kirata-hunandhra-pulinda-pulkasa abhira-sumbha yavanah khasadayah. These are the list of the candalas or less than the sudras. So Bhagavata gives open road for everyone. Even one is kirata… Kirata means… Generally they are called aborigines, or the very black aborigines living in the jungles, they are called kirata.
710329BG.BOM Lecture
Our Sanatana Gosvami gives direction in the Hari-bhakti-vilasa that one man can become a brahmana by the regular process of diksa. Diksa, this initiation, cannot be offered to a sudra. Diksa cannot be offered to a sudra. But in this age, Kali-yuga, it is the statement of the sastras that in the Kali-yuga most of the population are sudras. Kalau sudra sambhavah. How they can be initiated? This initiation is offered not according to the Vedic rules, because it is very difficult to find out a qualified brahmana. DIKSA IS OFFERED TO A QUALIFIED BRAHMANA. THEREFORE THIS DIKSA IS OFFERED ACCORDING TO PANCARATRIKI-VIDHI. THAT IS RECOMMENDED IN THIS AGE. MY SPIRITUAL MASTER INAUGURATED THIS PANCARATRIKI-VIDHI, AND WE ARE FOLLOWING HIS FOOTSTEPS. Anyone who is inclined to devote his life for Krsna, he should be accepted as brahmana.
Note: A MADHYAMA-ADHIKARI HAS RECEIVED SPIRITUAL INITIATION FROM THE SPIRITUAL MASTER AND HAS BEEN FULLY ENGAGED BY HIM IN THE TRANSCENDENTAL LOVING SERVICE OF THE LORD.** THIS IS DIKSA**.
Antya 4.192 T Sanatana Gosvami Visits the Lord at Jagannatha Puri:
DIKSA-KALE bhakta kare atma-samarpana
sei-kale krsna tare kare atma-sama
“At the time of initiation, when a devotee FULLY SURRENDERS UNTO THE SERVICE OF THE LORD, Krsna accepts him to be as good as Himself.
Antya 4.193 Sanatana Gosvami Visits the Lord at Jagannatha Puri:
“When the devotee’s body is thus transformed into spiritual existence, the devotee, in that transcendental body, renders SERVICE to the lotus feet of the Lord.
Antya 4.194 Sanatana Gosvami Visits the Lord at Jagannatha Puri:
“‘The living entity who is subjected to birth and death, when he gives up all material activities dedicating his life to Me for executing My order, and thus acts according to My direction, AT THAT TIME HE REACHES THE PLATFORM OF IMMORTALITY, AND BECOMES FIT TO ENJOY THE SPIRITUAL BLISS OF EXCHANGE OF LOVING MELLOWS WITH ME.’
NoI 5:
In order to intelligently apply the sixfold loving reciprocations mentioned in the previous verse, one must select proper persons with careful discrimination. Srila Rupa Gosvami therefore advises that we should meet with the Vaisnavas in an appropriate way, according to their particular status. In this verse he tells us how to deal with three types of devotees–the kanistha-adhikari, madhyama-adhikari and uttama-adhikari. The kanistha-adhikari is a neophyte who has received the hari-nama initiation from the spiritual master and is trying to chant the holy name of Krsna. One should respect such a person within his mind as a kanistha-vaisnava. A MADHYAMA-ADHIKARI HAS RECEIVED SPIRITUAL INITIATION FROM THE SPIRITUAL MASTER AND HAS BEEN FULLY ENGAGED BY HIM IN THE TRANSCENDENTAL LOVING SERVICE OF THE LORD. The madhyama-adhikari should be considered to be situated midway in devotional service. The uttama-adhikari, or highest devotee, is one who is very advanced in devotional service. An uttama-adhikari is not interested in blaspheming others, his heart is completely clean, and he has attained the realized state of unalloyed Krsna consciousness. According to Srila Rupa Gosvami, the association and service of such a maha-bhagavata, or perfect Vaisnava, are most desirable.s to act for everyone’s welfare.
Note: in this Srila Prabhupada makes a point of Initiation as a formality this is different from Madhyama Adhikaris receiving Diksa
761016iv.cha Conversation Interviewer: What is the procedure of the movement? Do you initiate yourself all the disciples or do your other disciples also do that?
Prabhupada: Well, initiation or no initiation, first thing is knowledge. (break) …knowledge. Initiation is formality. Just like you go to a school for knowledge, and admission is formality. That is not very important thing.
Whereas Srila Prabhupada DELIVERS by giving DIKSA knowledge the formality is conducted by the Ritviks (Representatives of Acarya).
Kanistha adhikari is supposed to be in the mode of Goodness Sattva guna not on Visuddha Sattava platform which is Pure Goodness so he can NOT give diksa. How can a Kanistha adhikari give diksa if he himself is not free from all material contamination?
Madhya 4.111 Sri Madhavendra Puri’ s Devotional Service:
Diksa actually means initiating a disciple with transcendental knowledge by which he becomes freed from all material contamination.
If Kanistha adhikari could give this Diksa to another this means there would be no material contamination at all but he cannot do this. ONLY at Madhyama adhikari stage one can initiated with transcendental Knowledge and become freed from ALL material contamination. It is mistakenly misunderstood that even Kanistha or Madhyama adhikari give diksa this is perhaps due to the understanding they CAN accept disciples. Please see the quote below:
“In this verse Srila Rupa Gosvami advises the devotee to be intelligent enough to distinguish between the kanistha-adhikari, madhyama-adhikari and the uttama-adhikari. The devotee should also know his own position and should not try to imitate a devotee situated on a higher platform. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura has given some practical hints to the effect that an uttama-adhikari Vaisnava can be recognized by his ability to convert many fallen souls to Vaisnavism. One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikari. A neophyte Vaisnava or a Vaisnava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, but such disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritualmaster.” (Purport, Nectar of Instruction)
In this quote please note there is no mention of giving diksa at all. In fact it does NOT encourage accepting spiritual master from the Madhyama or Kanistha. The quote is about taking discipline NOT Diksa. The 3rd Offence in chanting is to disobey the Spiritual master so in either case if one becomes a spiritual master without being on Uttama Adhikari he will be committing offense and if he accepts one who is not on uttama adhikari he will commit offense in the chanting of the holy name.
Note: Diksa is illustrated graphically here Vasudeva was on Suddha sattva platform this is why from him Krsna is transferred to Devaki
SB 10.2.18 Prayers by the Demigods for Lord Krsna in the Womb:
Thereafter, accompanied by plenary expansions, the fully opulent Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is all-auspicious for the entire universe, was transferred from the mind of Vasudeva to the mind of Devaki. Devaki, having thus been initiated by Vasudeva, became beautiful by carrying Lord Krsna, the original consciousness for everyone, the cause of all causes, within the core of her heart, just as the east becomes beautiful by carrying the rising moon.
PURPORT:
As indicated here by the word manastah, the Supreme Personality of Godhead was transferred from the core of Vasudeva’s mind or heart to the core of the heart of Devaki. We should note carefully that the Lord was transferred to Devaki not by the ordinary way for a human being, but by diksa, initiation. Thus the importance of initiation is mentioned here. Unless one is initiated by the right person, who always carries within his heart the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one cannot acquire the power to carry the Supreme Godhead within the core of one’s own heart.
SB 8.5.29 P The Demigods Appeal to the Lord for Protection:
Sattvam visuddham vasudeva-sabditam (Bhag. 4.3.23). In this material world, the three modes of material nature–goodness, passion and ignorance–prevail. Among these three, goodness is the platform of knowledge, and passion brings about a mixture of knowledge and ignorance, but the mode of ignorance is full of darkness. Therefore the Supreme Personality of Godhead is beyond darkness and passion. He is on the platform where goodness or knowledge is not disturbed by passion and ignorance. This is called the vasudeva platform. It is on this platform of vasudeva that Vasudeva, or Krsna, can appear.
SB 5.3.20 P Rsabhadeva’ s Appearance in the Womb of Merudevi, the Wife of King Nabhi:
Lord Visnu descends in His suddha-sattva form. Suddha-sattva refers to the sattva-guna which is never contaminated. In this material world, even the mode of goodness (sattva-guna) is contaminated by tinges of rajo-guna and tamo-guna. When sattva-guna is never contaminated by rajo-guna and tamo-guna, it is called suddha-sattva. Sattvam visuddham vasudeva-sabditam (Bhag. 4.3.23). That is the platform of vasudeva, whereby the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Vasudeva, can be experienced.
Note: Karma is taken by UTTAMA-ADHAKARI. Only he can DELIVER by definition. uttama-adhikari Sei taraye samsara.
Madhya 22.65 The Process of Devotional Service:
uttama-adhikari–the topmost devotee; sei–he; taraye samsara–can deliver the whole world.
Srila Prabhupada delivers. He GIVES Diksa. Formalities of initiation are done by his Ritvik Representatives.
Raja Gopala dasa says: I have lived on Iskcon premises and also then I didn’t agree on everything the GBC concluded/stated.
I think it was in New Vrindaban in 1972 that Srila Prabhupada told me face-to-face, “Follow the GBC.”
When I was temple treasurer in Chicago in 1973/74, and the temple president was acting as a whimsical, independent dictator (not following the GBC’s/Srila Prabhupada’s orders), even though I was married with a child, I resigned from my official ISKCON position and moved to a different temple. Same thing in Boston in 1975/76. To have maintained my position under those circumstances would have been hypocrisy on my part. (In both cases, a few months later, these men were removed from their temple president positions by the GBC.)
If you have a position within a corporate structure, then you have to follow the orders of your superior whether you agree with those orders or not. Your only other choice is to resign from your position. Otherwise, you are simply a trouble-making hypocrite.
Raja Gopala dasa : I am an initiated Iskcon devotee, not living on Iskcon premises. Given the nature of some commenters on this site I won’t tell you the name of my guru since I am fully convinced these commenters will otherwise start blaspheming. So for the protection of these people I have come to this conclusion.
Mahesh: Prabhuji WAKE-UP ! your “formality initiation” giver is NOT on the platform of Srila Prabhupada THE BONAFIDE DIKSA GURU Mahabhagavata who is QUALIFED to GIVE Diksa:
Madhya 10.182
Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, “Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya, what are you
saying? Lord Visnu, save Me! Such glorification is simply another form of blasphemy.”
PURPORT
Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was a little embarrassed by the Bhattacarya’s
statement; therefore He uttered the name Visnu to save Himself. **The Lord herein confirms that if one is overestimated, glorification is just another form of blasphemy.** In this way He protests this so-called offensive statement.
Now we can see from the above very clearly that these 2/3 majority votes “gurus” are actually being **blasphemed by their sentimental followers**.
Since these “gurus” have been **voted** they are not qualified as acarya —they do not have Krishna’s pastimes televised in their hearts to transmit diksa to the madhyama-adhikari. So why should they be worshipped as good as God. Yet we see their followers placing their photos on alters and conducting puja—-this is conditioned soul or idol worship. Is it not? This is as the above quote specifies **if one is overestimated , glorification is just another form of blasphemy**.
Why is the “GBC ” promoting this blasphemy? They should know to wash the feet and take “carnamrita?” of a conditioned soul is not accepted in the sastra. Photos of conditioned souls are not worshippable. This worship is meant for Acarya pure devotee( Srila Prabhupada) the actual representative of the Lord.
So if the 2/3 majority voted “gurus” are so unintelligent to allow this
then it just goes to show you how sentimental their followers are.
Srila Prabhupada many times mentions the cheaters and the cheated so here is the example.
Bg 18: Conclusion-The Perfection of Renunciation : Bg 18.32 : TRANSLATION :
That understanding which considers irreligion to be religion and religion to be irreligion, under the spell of illusion and darkness, and strives always in the wrong direction, O Pārtha, is in the mode of ignorance.
These folks are worshipping a bunch of CONDITIONED SOUL CROOKS VOTED AS DIKSA GURU BY BOGUS GBC. SINCE WHEN ARE THESE CONDITIONED SOULS AS GOOD AS GOD (Diksa Guru)? They take their footbath puke so—- what brain is left? When the guy is dead they put the conditioned soul carcass in salted pickle and call it “samadhi” they worship this carcass. This is what MODE OF IGNORANCE IS.
Note: the words used mahā-bhāgavata-śreṣṭho(Mahabhagavata) dīkṣitaḥ (GIVES DIKSA) ONLY a MAHABAHGAVATA IS CAPABLE TO GIVE DISKA – BY DIFINITION. Accepting anything LOWER tthen a MAHABHAGAVATA means 3rd OFFENCE in chanting the Holy Name ie neglect the order of the spiritual master(Srila Prabhupada) which means Spiritual life FINNISHED!
CAITANYA CARITAMRTA MADHYA CHP 24 TXT 330
In the Padma Purāṇa, the characteristics of the guru, the bona fide spiritual master, have been described:
mahā-bhāgavata-śreṣṭho
brāhmaṇo vai gurur nṛṇām
sarveṣām eva lokānām
asau pūjyo yathā hariḥ
mahā-kula-prasūto ‘pi
sarva-yajñeṣu dīkṣitaḥ
sahasra-śākhādhyāyī ca
na guruḥ syād avaiṣṇavaḥ
The guru MUST be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service. There are three classes of devotees, and the guru MUST be accepted from the topmost class. The first-class devotee is the spiritual master for all kinds of people.
All Glories To Srila Prabhupada our Bonafide Jagat Diksa and Siksa Guru!
Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare/ Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare
Raja Gopala dasa says:
7. August 2013 at 7:49 am
@Amar Puri
Thank you for your information about what is matter and what is spiritual. Very nice.
“Cosmic” btw means “chaotic”. As long as we’re not realised in eternal knowledge we remain in a chaotic state, mentally. It is my humble observation some commenting on this site still have a very “cosmic mind”. And seem to prefer it that way.
WOW …….. Raja Gopala dasa demonstrates his very own cosmic mind when he writes to ;
@Pratyatosa Dasa (ACBSP)
” I am an initiated Iskcon devotee, not living on Iskcon premises. Given the nature of some commenters on this site I won’t tell you the name of my guru since I am fully convinced these commenters will otherwise start blaspheming. So for the protection of these people I have come to this conclusion.”
Raja Gopala dasa boldly claims that he is initiated Iskcon devotee in the Spiritual Organization of HDG. Srila Prabhupada and yet he refuses and rejects the acceptance of the DIKSHA Guru Srila Prabhupada who says that He is the Initiator to the members of Iskcon Organization.
What kind of a hypocrite are you Raja Gopala dasa ???????????
What type of a cosmic mind you have when you write in your comments ;
“Cosmic” btw means “chaotic”. As long as we’re not realised in eternal knowledge we remain in a chaotic state, mentally. It is my humble observation some commenting on this site still have a very “cosmic mind”. And seem to prefer it that way.”
Does it not prove that your observation is tainted as a chaotic state as you quoted upon reading Srila Prabhupada’s statements cited by His followers in this forum ??????????
Answer these questions, Raja Gopala dasa or else go somewhere where you and your guru and his disciples are accepted to each other and teach your realization there what you are trying to do here.
You are , indeed, a HYPOCRITE like your guru who so ever he is in the present deviant Iskcon.
Is it the reason that you are afraid to reveal the name of your bogus guru in the Iskcon of Srila Prabhupada ?????????
Do not waste your time any more here with your duplicity comments.
Hope it meets you well.
Hari BOL.
ALL GLORIES TO SRILA PRABHUPADA.
Raja Gopala dasa says: I am an initiated Iskcon devotee…I won’t tell you the name of my guru [because blah, blah, blah].
This is typical. Most “grand disciple” ISKCONites are too ashamed of their own so-called gurus to even mention their names in polite company. Is it because they know, in their hearts, that their “guru” is nothing but a joke? Besides, any ISKCON “guru” who doesn’t order his disciples to simply “follow the GBC” is among the worst of the worst!
Nowhere does ISKCON officially list a parampara (disciplic succession) personality #33. That’s because they admit, by default, that Srila Prabhupada is still the current link in the parampara. Therefore, by default, Prabhupada is the only bona fide giver of diksa (initiation) within ISKCON for the foreseeable future. This is 100% bona fide because Prabhupada, after thinking about it for several weeks, made that all-important management decision (ritvik henceforward) back in 1977. He made his decision known to his ISKCON leaders in the form of the July 9, 1977 letter to all temple presidents and GBC men. This all-important ISKCON management directive is crystal-clear to anyone who is not either a fool or a self-motivated rascal.
Who got initiated and who didn’t, when Srila Prabhupada was personally managing ISKCON, was never the result of any mysterious hocus-pocus. If the temple president said you got initiated, then you got initiated; otherwise not! It was as simple as that! Why should it be any different today?
This first initiation is extremely important to the aspiring bhakta, but who performs it is not important. It’s simply, as Srila Prabhupada ordered, “whichever [ritvik representative] is nearest.”
When devotees express their anger and hurt at being cheated by a bogus ISKCON guru we often hear, (usually from those with guru’s still in good standing) “Oh well you must have wanted to be cheated and therefore Krishna has fulfilled your desire, He’s the gambling of cheats you know, bla, bla, bla”.
BUT then when the cheated and hurt devotee finally stands up and says, “OK enough! From now on I’m taking shelter of Srila Prabhupada!!” are they congratulated for rising above what others said was a foolish desire to be cheated? No, now they’re admonished for approaching Prabhupada who they are told is long gone and cannot offer them direct shelter.
So either you keep taking ISKCON gurus – for which the GBC has already warned may be unqualified and therefore cheat you, OR you protect yourself from the cheats by approaching Srila Prabhupada for which you’re then criticized, demonized and eventually driven out of Prabhupada’s movement for being,….. a Ritvik! (Dah, Dah, Dah, Dahhhhh – scary organ music).
Geeze, talk about a ‘no win’ situation!
Dear Maha,
Please accept my obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. I just spoke to Maharaja for a long time and I am convinced that he has been framed, some envious disciples really attached him and have destroyed his reputation. So Maharaja is laying low, and just wants to chant and recover from all this. He never had an illicit relationship with any women, it is all rumors.
Your servant,
Pancagauda das
Oh really ; ” So Maharaja is laying low, and just wants to chant and recover from all this. ”
Does it mean that Maharaja is ready to renounce his false status of guru in the Iskcon of Srila Prabhupada ??????
That is the only way I see for this conditioned Jiva ( your maharaja) to recover from the material afflictions which has been inflicted upon him due to his own dirty desire.
Hope you pass this message to your maharaja in order to stop it.
Hari BOL.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
stop it! says: …he has been framed [by] some envious disciples. He never had an illicit relationship with any women.
I’ve heard of the GBC covering up for ISKCON “gurus” who have fallen down, but for the GBC to falsely accuse one of their own of falling down is something new! Are they really that stupid to have been duped by some “envious disciples?”
From <http://pratyatosa.com/?P=u&TP=8010>:
Dear Pancagauda das..
” jiv jago, jiv jago, gauracanda bole
kota nidra jao maya-pisacira kole
Lord Gauranga is calling, “Wake up, sleeping souls! Wake up, sleeping souls! How long will you sleep in the lap of the witch called Maya?”
You don’t always get what you want, but you always get what you deserve!
Yhs,
Balaram das
@Pancagauda das
Devotees all over the world are still waiting for a statement from Mahanidhi.
There was enough time to write a short counterstatement to the GBC’s recent broadcast.
PADA: Thanks but first of all, Mahanidhi has been “a member in good standing” of the GBC and their current version of ISKCON. That means, he has supported the GBC’s many position papers saying that acharyas are falling down into illicit sex. If he has not supported these pillar preaching ideas of the current GBC gurus, then he has never wrote a position paper explaining — why he is apparently participating with, and even supporting, these offenders?
He needs to speak for himself on this matter and not let other proxies defend him. We need to know directly from him — why he has been participating in this apa-siddhanta — that acharyas are often debauchees? That is the first issue he needs to clear up, is he with these offenders or not?
As for Pancagauda das, did he not just help bury Kirtanananda’s stinky body in the holy dham? Pancagauda thinks we all need to worship the dead corpse of a criminal and child molester in the holy dham? Why is Pancagauda the new defender of Mahanidhi, when Pancagauda is the worst defiler of the holy dham? Is this Mahanidhi’s best character witness? So this simply begs another whole set of questions, why is the person who wants us to worship the dead corpse of a criminal and child molester in the holy dham, acting as the star character defender of Mahanidhi?
There is also not merely “only one single complainer” who has been saying Mahanidhi fell down with a woman, as some are telling us, rather the whole GBC has said that: (Letter from the GBC)
Since Mahanidhi has been a leader in the GBC’s guru program for so many years, he is the person who needs to write a public letter explaining all these things, including why he has been reading about siddha pranali and so forth, which we have all seen on his videos. He needs to clear all this up himself, where does he stand on all these complaints, because he has been a big ISKCON leader, and he has even acted as an acharya representative of ISKCON. Thus its his responsibility to explain this so that we, and all of ISKCON’s members, and all of his followers, can get clear on his position. If he writes a public letter we will publish it in full. If Mahanidhi does not want second hand people discussing this, then we need to hear his version from himself. Is that fair? ys pd
The GBC is accountable for creating a precedent in the history of Vaisnavism whereby conditioned souls are voted into positions they are unfit for. They have created a “reverse” tradition thereby destabilizing the very Institution they were created to protect.
There is so much which we don’t know.
Let’s stop with the speculation and instead focus on gathering more information. You can help by signing the petition for the GBC Executive Committee to release the letter wherein Mahanidhi Swami allegedly resigned from ISKCON:
https://www.change.org/petitions/iskcon-gbc-executive-committee-release-mahanidhi-swami-s-letter-wherein-he-resigned-from-iskcon
It is such a shame to read such news. I feel so sorry that we call ourselves devotees and point fingers to his grace Mahanidhi Swami who has been a true disciple of his Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and been a great teacher and preacher doing his mission on earth. I wish we had never seen such days
@Sattvic Das
Actually it is very simple, Srila Prabhupada promoted and sanctioned the amara ajnara guru. This type of guru may be exposed through time also not to be liberated in actions. Still, Srila Prabhupada, accepted this type of guru. So, if ritviks like to blame, find fault etc. they better take this into account.
Iskcon devotees, devoted to the siksa loving line, not just to the diksa formal line, will deal with these “problems”. Sri Krishna many times arranges so-called problems to his sincere devotees. In this case, he just uses the ritvik mechanistical convinced ones for this purpose.
Raja Gopala dasa, by now you must understand and realize that Srila Prabhupada indeed promoted and sanctioned the amara ajnara guru which means all of US the followers of Srila Prabhupada including your self made guru a conditioned soul must bring the Holy name of the Lord in every Town and Village in order to deliver the Jivas all over this planet earth but not to accept OWN disciples in the Spiritual Organization of Iskcon. This was never ORDER by Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada wants all of US to be such guru in order to educate and instruct the conditioned Jivas in the Science of Krishna Consciousness instead of accepting the disciples in His Organization which Srila Prabhupada never ORDER as such. Srila Prabhupada never AuthorizE any of His disciples to be His SUCCESSOR in His Spiritual Organization Iskcon World Wide. Where is such proof ?????????
That is the problem that you people have to understand, Raja Gopala dasa and co.
More later.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Raja Gopala Prabhu, please accept my obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
You wrote in an earlier text in relation to Madhu Pandit Prabhu: “It seemed he wanted to be guru very much”, but in another entry you say: “Ritviks, apart from other serious deficiencies, don’t understand diksa is secondary to siksa, that is a most amusing point. Diksa is only formal initiation into the disciplic succession, siksa is for spiritual elevation.”
I’m a little confused?
Because Ritviks promote diksa from Srila Prabhupada you critisize them, saying they’ve missed the importantance of siska. But then if someone appears to be a strong and speak with conviction you also critisize them for ‘wanting to be a guru very much’. It’s like that story of the young man, the old man and the donkey. No mattter what they did they got critisized in the eyes of those who were critical by nature. Not that I’m saying you are.
Actually from my observation of the Ritvik camps they have very active siksa principles in place. Young men and women come into a Ritvik community knowing absolutely nothing about Bhagavad-gita or Lord Caitanya, etc, and in time we see they are distributing Srila Prabhupada’s books, chanting 16 rounds, doing prasadam distribution and worshipping the Deities, etc, etc. They are as puka and fixed up – as we say – as any ISKCON devotee, and nothing would indicate that they don’t have as equal opportunity to go back to Godhead if they stay on course. Obviously there has been a great deal of siksa guidance, instruction and care to have brought them to this ‘spiritually elevated’ place. So for me personally your argument that the Ritviks do not understand the importance of siksa doesn’t hold water.
With respect, JFS.
There seems to be a split going on among the GBC, some of them are saying that Mahanidhi has fallen, and they wrote a letter to that effect, while some are saying its all a rumor, including apparently Mahanidhi himself. This seems like a real out of control situation at present. This is the recent letter from Mahanidhi swami himself, denying all wrong doings, at least apparently he sent it: ys pd
http://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2013/08/letter-from-mahanidhi-swami-august-13.html
Amar Puri says:
14. August 2013 at 7:55 pm
“Srila Prabhupada never AuthorizE any of His disciples to be His
SUCCESSOR in His Spiritual Organization Iskcon World Wide. Where
is such proof ?????????”
SG — In the July 9th 1977 letter, Srila Prabhupada appointed 11 of his
most senior disciples to accept devotees and perform initiation on his
behalf while he was present on this planet.
Among the 11 appointed disciples, most have accepted that the order or
instruction given in the letter was to be carried out while Srila Prabhupada
was present on planet and not after his departure.
The ones among them who believe that Srila Prabhupada wanted this order to
continue even after his departure from this planet is Hansadutta dasa
and Tamal Krsna Goswami. One is still present, the latter dead.
Amar Puri, please tell us, in your ritvik organization or among your ritvik
groups including yourself, how many of you have been initiated by Hansadutta dasa?
All those initiations that has been taking place in Iskcon Bangalore, Singapore,
Uk, US etc, by those so called ritvik initiators, were they appointed by Srila Prabhupada
to accept devotees and perform initiations on his behalf ?
If yes, show us some proof with their names in it, a letter, a directive or
a document with Srila Prabhupada authorized signature similar to the July 9th 1977 letter.
If no, then what is the position of those initiated devotees? Simply groups unauthorized
fakes going around calling themselves as initiated disciples of Srila Prabhupada. All
these ritvik initiated devotees if they have any intelligence they should be questioning
their bogus so called ritvik leaders.
“”A devotee should have intelligence to know who is deviating. Surrender by your
intelligence but don’t surrender your intelligence.” (SP to Bali Mardana, 1974)
How many more of you innocent devotees are going to allow yourselves to be cheated
by these ritvik wallahs, which includes this Amar Puri, with their bogus ritvik initiators
and their false post samadhi ritvik initiation ritual ?
HARE KRSNA
message forewaded by Sukadeva Das suka108@gmail.com
MAHANIDHI SWAMI’S LETTER AUGUST 13, 2013
Sri Sri Guru Gauranga Jayate!
Dear devotees and friends,
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. For your consideration I offer the following explanation of the recent events of my life.
The Veda Purana says in Kali-yuga, disciples will become so antagonistic, envious and ungrateful that they will even kill their own Guru. Recently, a few disciples have accused me of improper behavior with a female devotee, and that was publicized worldwide.
Contrary to the thousands of false statements, distorted facts, wild exaggerated stories and complete lies, I have never had any illicit relations with a woman or man during my entire devotional life. Of course, this is only possible by the mercy of my Gurudeva Srila Prabhupada, Lord Gauranga and Sri Krishna’s Holy Names. And in no way have I left my eternal divine holy master Srila Prabhupada, and ran away with a woman or some other Guru.
Why did I resign from ISKCON, the International Society for Krishna Consciousness? By the 15th of June 2013, I observed that some antagonistic disciples had formed a conspiracy, and then forcefully spread slanderous allegations and completely false stories about my character to the disciples, and then throughout India and overseas. Not only was my name, reputation, disciple sanga, and preaching platform destroyed, but so to was all the wonderful preaching being done by the disciples. Seeing that permanent damage was already done, and feeling that the situation was hopeless, I accepted it as Bhagavan Sri Krishna’s sweet will.
Now it seems that time had come to change the focus, and concentrate on my personal internal spiritual development. At this time, I suddenly remembered some important siksha Srila Prabhupada gave in 1972.
In that year, my Gurudeva Srila Prabhupada said, “Preach while you are young. When you are old, retire to Vrndavana and chant Hare Krishna. If you have preached sufficiently, you can retire to chant Hare Krishna.” (Prabhupada Lilamrta Vol 5 pg. 94: 1983 ed.)
I am sixty-three years old, and have spent the last forty years of my life in ISKCON actively preaching and publishing books to spread the science of Krishna
Consciousness around the world. Feeling that I have preached sufficiently, I thought now I can follow my Gurudeva’s siksha to retire in Vrndavana and chant Hare Krishna.
Thus, I resigned from the glorious preaching campaign of ISKCON to spend the balance of my life at Radha Kunda in Sridhama Vrndavana, chanting the sweet Holy Names of Sri Krishna, with the hope of someday attaining the most cherished goal of Radha-Krishna prema, pure love of God.
In closing, I want to take this opportunity to humbly beg forgiveness from any Vaisnava whom I may have offended during this most difficult time of my life. Also, I want to it to be clearly understood that I will always love and serve my eternal Gurudeva Srila Prabhupada, and maintain the deepest respect and gratitude toward ISKCON and all the devotees.
And if Bhagavan Sri Krishna blesses me, then in the future I may receive the good fortune to render a little service for the pleasure of the Vaisnavas.
Jai Jai Sri Radhe!
Vaisnavadasanudasa,
mahanidhi swami august 13, 2013
@Just-a-fruit-seller says:
You of course get easily confused when you prefer use just small parts of comments like the one I gave about Madhu Pandit, the worldly politician.
The only reason to give diksa and siksa initiation is that the disciple can become Krsna conscious. I don’t have any inidication you realise Krsna since you love to offfend and insult sincere and most developed vaisnavas.
@Amar Puri
Lord Caitanya in CC explaines that anyone who understands the science of Krsna, refraines from animal slaughter, illicit connecttions, intoxications and speculations can be a guru. Can you comprehend this?
For your understanding, there are not only amara ajnara guru’s in Iskcon. It would be a sign of intelligence not to generalise but i don’t see that intelligence within the ritvik people communicating on this forum. Is it not possible for you to go beyond, very funny, dictatorial rulership dreams? A vaisnava is a qualified brahmana to begin with.
You ritviks have the strange habit to try to instruct people that are not one second interested in your comical instructions. Don’t you understand that serious people decide themselves who to take as authority?
@SG
Indeed SG, you give more nice, very practical proof of the ignorance and hypocrisy of ritvik people. Envy is always self defeating. Very handy. You make it manifest in a very nice manner.
@Sukadeva Das
Interesting to see how this saga perhaps will continue. Within Iskcon so many things will remain happening since it is a purificatory institution with all kinds of non-liberated and liberated devotees.
MY REPLY IS APPENDED IN THE BLOCK LETTER below the questions asked by SG.
Wow ……..finally at last as it appears that SG is waking up and asking questions when he writes:
“Amar Puri, please tell us, in your ritvik organization or among your ritvik groups including yourself, how many of you have been initiated by Hansadutta dasa?”
NOT ME, PERSONALLY. WHY? BECAUSE I BELIEVE THAT HE DID NOT FOLLOW HIMSELF SINCERELY TO SRILA PRABHUPADA’S ORDER. BAS.
All those initiations that has been taking place in Iskcon Bangalore, Singapore, Uk, US etc, by those so called ritvik initiators, were they appointed by Srila Prabhupada to accept devotees and perform initiations on his behalf?
ONLY A SINCERE AND SERIOUS FOLLOWER OF SRILA PRABHUPADA CAN BRING THE NEW BHAKTA TO THE CLOSEST TO SRILA PRABHUPADA BECAUSE BOTH HAVE TO BE DEDICATED SELFLESSLY IN THE SERVICE OF THE MISSION OF HDG SRILA PRABHUPADA WORLD WIDE. THEREFORE, SRILA PRABHUPADA ACCEPTS SUCH SINCERE AND SERIOUS DEVOTEES REGARDLESS OF THEIR APPOINTMENTS TO PERFORM INITIATION ON HDG BEHALF.
If yes, show us some proof with their names in it, a letter, a directive or a document with Srila Prabhupada authorized signature similar to the July 9th 1977 letter.
BASED ON THE ABOVE MENTIONED FACTS , SG ON THE CONTRARY, YOU HAVE TO PROVE THAT WHY SRILA PRABHUPADA WOULD NOT ACCEPT THE SERVICE PERFORMED BY SUCH SINCERE AND SERIOUS FOLLOWERS OF HDG SRILA PRABHUPADA???????????
If no, then what is the position of those initiated devotees?
THE POSITION OF THOSE RITVIK INITIATED DEVOTEES IS VERY SAFE AND SUBLIME IN ORDER TO ADVANCE IN KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS. IS IT NOT, SG ??????????
Simply groups unauthorized fakes going around calling themselves as initiated disciples of Srila Prabhupada. All these ritvik initiated devotees if they have any intelligence they should be questioning their bogus so called ritvik leaders.
NOW YOU HAVE TO QUESTION YOURSELF IF YOU HAVE ANY INTELLIGENCE WHETHER OR NOT THE RITVIK INITIATION IS THE VALID ANSWER AS SRILA PRABHUPADA DESIRES AS PER HIS INSTRUCTIONS.
IT APPEARS THAT VERY CLEARLY THAT YOU DO NOT ACCEPT THE INITIATIONS INSTRUCTIONS OF SRILA PRABHUPADA. IS THIS NOT A FACT, SG???????????????
“A devotee should have intelligence to know who is deviating. Surrender by your
intelligence but don’t surrender your intelligence.” (SP to Bali Mardana, 1974)”
THEREFORE, SURRENDER BY YOUR INTELLIGENCE TO SRILA PRABHUPADA’S INITIATING INSTRUCTIONS AND ACCEPT IT TO MAKE YOUR LIFE SUBLIME.
WHERE IS YOUR PROBLEM, SG ???????????
WHY ARE YOU NOT FOLLOWING AND ACCEPTING SRILA PRABHUPADA’S INSTRUCTIONS, SG ??????????
How many more of you innocent devotees are going to allow yourselves to be cheated by these ritvik wallahs, which includes this Amar Puri, with their bogus ritvik initiators and their false post samadhi ritvik initiation ritual?
FOR YOUR INFORMATION, SG., SRILA PRABHUPADA IS THE INITIATOR IN HIS ISKCON WORLD WIDE. THEREFORE, THERE IS NO SUCH PRE/POST RITVIK INITIATION AS CONCOCTED BY YOU IN ORDER TO GET MISLED. THAT IS ONE OF THE PROBLEMS, YOU HAVE SG.
MY REPLY IS APPENDED IN THE BLOCK LETTER below the questions asked by SG.
Hope it meets well to the learned Readers.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
OM TAT SAT.
Raja Gopala writes: “A vaisnava is a qualified brahmana to begin with.”
A qualified Vaishnava Brahmana does not accept his own disciples within the institution of his Spiritual Master until and unless that qualified Vaishnava Brahmana is authorized by his very own Spiritual Master.
Do you get that Raja Gopala dasa ?????????
Therefore, all of your living amara ajnara gurus who accept their own disciples in the institution of their Spiritual Master without any AUTHORIZATION are BOGUS in the Iskcon of HDG Srila Prabhupada. Because HDG Srila Prabhupada did not authorize any of His disciples as His SUCCESSOR…… Bas.
Raja Gopala and SG co. do not accept the above said truth and you get cheated by a CHEATER guru. It is that simple.
Hope it meets you well.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
No Raja Gopal Prabhu, I took two of the statements YOU MADE that seemed to contradict one another and asked you to explain. You’re either unwilling or unable to offer an explanation and therefore, (sadly predictable) your immediate response is one of anger and attack as you tell me how un-KC and offensive I am while dodging the issue completely.
Nice try. But again I’m confused seeing as you preached to someone else on the forum the following “Anyway, I hope you become realised in vaisnava tattva and with that become soft hearted, gentle, and somewhat more diplomatic”. Do as I say not as I do?
You didn’t address anything I said but went straight to a place of anger. Again I’m confused as you previously wrote on this thread, “I only visit this site to try to get some discussion on vaisnava tattva”. Oh but have I taken you out of context Raja Gopal, or do you just say what suits you at the time? Honest??
I suspect you are simply embarrassed that you got caught out making things up and were defeated by my explanation of the active siksa principles in the ritvik camp that you said did not exist. Is this how you represent ISKCON?
If ISKCON were so utterly convinced that the Ritviks are wrong then why don’t they produce some utterly convincing evidence to back up their claim? As I’ve said before on this forum, so far as I’ve seen ISKCON devotees come on here grasping at straws and putting up straw men,… often bending the truth, some out and out lie.
Take Raja Gopal Prabhu’s line of assault for example. He states quite categorically that the problem with the Ritviks is they don’t understand the importance of siksa! Plain and simple!! But is it really that plain and simple? Is there actually any truth to his statement when analyzed logically? Has RG visited all the Ritviks camps and stayed and studied their modus operandi before he drew this conclusion that he now posts publically as truth? Or is his little ‘absolute truth’ something he made up or heard from someone else?
You will also notice how RG slips into an opening sentence “Ritviks, apart from other serious deficiencies,……” Whoa, wait a minute. This is hearsay and has absolutely no foundation or truth to it if not backed up by actual fact. Exactly what these deficiencies are Raja Gopal does not say? But why would he do this if he is so utterly convinced the Ritvik people are wrong? Why borrow strength by using such a cheap shot? Honest??
Oh btw Raja Gopal, you should really check some of the past comments made by SG about ISKCON before you go on record praising his erudition and elegance.
@Amar Puri
Why do you like to take the position of Lord Visnu? Apart from “why”; it is always most unhandy, to put it mildly.
@Just-a-fruit-seller
You like to be against Iskcon, you like to be gross and wannabe insulting, you like to be vaisnava tattva ignorant. And you like to insult Srila Prabhupada by denying his instructions. We just act on that in devotional service.
The ritviks I know are filled with subtle sex and definitely don’t understand sastra. Where there is a lot of sublte sex generally gross sex also is there. Perhaps watch your own ritvik organisation a bit more seriously instead of insulting great vaisnavas.
btw, Is the worldly politician Madhu Pandit already billionaire?
@Just-a-fruit-seller
btw, Ritviks can’t give any siksa since one has to be spiritually elevated, at least brahman realised, to execute this wonderful service. Since ritviks happen to like to insult great vaisnavas they are completely blocked of that eternal, loving, merciful reality.
Ritviks are just worldly ritualists. They sentimentally worship Srila Prabhupada as if he is some pop-star and hope to become popular materially with that mahamaya-seva. They don’t even theoretically know what is the transforming world and what is the eternally fixed, kuta-sta world.
Raja Gopala dasa: “The ritviks I know are filled with subtle sex and definitely don’t understand sastra.”
Dear Dr. Raja Gopala, that you are permitted to post at this forum does not automatically mean that your comments are true, legitimate.
Adding a dose of insult doesn’t make your statements look better either.
Read all those recent official bulletin GBC papers about Umapati, Prithu, Prabhavishnu, SDG, Harikesa, Lokanatha, Mahanidhi, to understand who is filled with subtle sex. Prabhupadanugas are all married people.
Madhu Pandita already agreed that ISKCON Bangalore is the property of ISKCON Mumbai.
For Dr. Raja Gopala this is not enough. He wants to kick out Madhu Pandit and the Bangalore devotees in order to move into the empty ISKCON Bangolore buildings. That is his logic. To simply occupy the ISKCON Bangalore buildings without doing any work.
So this is not Vaishnava this is a materialistic virus who simply causes havoc. Why public health authority always finds rats and lizards in your midday school meals????????
Better poke your nose into this issue than insulting those who worship a pure devotee.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-news/Bangalore/Lizard-and-rats-in-mid-day-meals/Article1-1100970.aspx
From daily Prabhupada quote, Madhya-lila 1,220: A jealous person in the dress of a Vaishnava is not at all happy to see the success of another Vaishnava in receiving the Lord’s mercy. Unfortunately, in this Age of Kali there are many mundane persons in the dress of Vaishnavas, and Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura has described them as disciples of Kali. He says, kali-cela.
He indicates that there is another Vaishnava, a pseudo Vaishnava with tilaka on his nose and kanthi beads around his neck. Such a pseudo Vaishnava associates with money and women and is jealous of successful Vaishnavas. Although passing for a Vaishnava, his only business is earning money in the dress of a Vaishnava.
Bhaktivinoda Thakura therefore says that such a pseudo Vaishnava is not a Vaishnava at all but a disciple of Kali-yuga. A disciple of Kali cannot become an acarya by the decision of some high-court. Mundane votes have no jurisdiction to elect a Vaishna acarya. A Vaishnava acarya is self-effulgent, and there is no need for any court judgment. A false acarya may try to override a Vaishnava by a high-court decision, but Bhaktivinoda Thakura says that he is nothing but a disciple of Kali-yuga.
Raja Gopala dasa writes ; @Amar Puri
Why do you like to take the position of Lord Visnu? Apart from “why”; it is always most unhandy, to put it mildly.
To put TRUTH mildly means hiding the TRUTH.
Is this your level of understanding and a platform of preaching ??????
The truth is always bitter. If you do not want to accept the truth, then go elsewhere where you can preach mildly to best suit your agenda.
If you do have any reason of your disbelieve to accept the Initiating Instructions of HDG Srila Prabhupada, then, please put it through your questions to clarify it.
Otherwise, throwing words out of proportion on account of your ignorance on the subject indicates that you simply distract the attention of focus of discussion in this forum which is not appreciated at all.
So, I suggest humbly that please govern yourself accordingly.
@Bhaktin Rose
The ritviks I know are filled with subtle sex and definitely don’t understand sastra. You can react and comment whatever you like, this is a fact.
Amara ajnara guru’s may become manifest through time not to have realised the liberated platform. Still Srila Prabhupada accepted and promoted this type of guru, as did Lord Caitanya.
That ritviks are married as you mention is a meaningless observation; they should renounce sex life altogether apart for the procreation of children. The ritviks I know don’t live up that standard, that’s for sure. Just because of that already they can’t give any siksa and don’t understand vaisnava tattva. The bigger reason is that they offend great vaisnavas and therefore remain in all kinds of darkness.
Why should I be interested in this meal scandal/tragedy? We’re personalists, not some impersonal “we’re all one” organisation.
I have got my personal instructions, activities and consciousness. Are you responsible for everything happening within your organisation? I Hope not for you, unless you of course aspire for merging into everything is one without variety. That I don’t know but since you as a ritvik adherent don’t understand vaisnava tattva and offend great vaisnavas you must be following something else, some relative, political truth.
btw, Many times I don’t wear any vaisnava external whatever. I have received the instructions of my most dear diksa/siksa guru and these I carry out, being a vaisnava in the role of grhasta living joyfully as a sannyasi, practically speaking.
The GBC says that acharyas are constantly falling, due to being “engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children.” Whereas the ritviks do not accept that principle and so, the ritviks say that the acharyas are ETERNALLY pure. That means, the ritviks do not understand shastra? Because they do not accept that acharyas are debauchees? Ummm, what? ys pd
On the 5th Aug Raja Gopal wrote; “btw, I had contact with Madhu Pandit twice via email last year just to ask him some questions. He showed to be an aggressive, most arrogant person. It seemed he wanted to be guru very much, unasked for btw. Weird guy.”
Then after I made contact here with Raja Gopal to ask some questions of my own, rather than try to discuss Raja Goipal responded; “I don’t have any inidication you realise Krsna since you love to offfend and insult sincere and most developed vaisnavas.”
He further wrote; “You like to be against Iskcon, you like to be gross and wannabe insulting, you like to be vaisnava tattva ignorant. And you like to insult Srila Prabhupada by denying his instructions.”
Raja Gopal, are you a hypocrite?
Why do you get so angry?
Did you know Prabhupada said, “angry means defeated”.
Why so agitated that you cannot even enter into discussion with me but rather write your insults and speculate about who I am.
In reality you have no idea if I’m inside or outside of ISKCON, nor do you have a clue if I do or don’t embrace the Ritvik ideals. Is that the best you can do?
For your information I joined ISKCON almost three decades ago, and follow Prabhupada’s ISKCON still.
Raja Gopala dasa says: The ritviks I know are filled with subtle sex and definitely don’t understand sastra.
Raja Gopala Prabhu, you are not going to convince anyone with your silly straw man arguments. Even if all of the ISKCON so-called gurus “understand sastra” and all of the Ritviks don’t, it still doesn’t change the fact that Srila Prabhupada prescribed “ritvik henceforward” for future initiations within ISKCON. (See: <http://rtvik.com/>)
@Amar Puri
The truth is always bitter??? The truth may come about in so many ways, bitter, very sweet, mildly, forcefully, diplomatically etc. etc. The beautiful capacity of linking up with it is most liberating. Offending great vaisnavas, your habit, will firmly keep you just in all kinds of darkness. And because of that fully outside of the Supreme Absolute Truth, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Raja Gopala dasa, as it appears, you do not read and/or understand what is written in my comments and thus continue throwing your words in a useless comments out of proportion to distract the attention of discussion with like minded Readers on the subject to which either you have no knowledge of it or you refuse to accept the Instructions of HDG. Srila Prabhupada.
As I ask you, if you have any meaningful question with regard to this issue, please put it through in writing in order to get the answer. Otherwise, please do not waste your time and energy writing meaningless comments.
Hope it meets you well.
Hari BOL.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
@Puranjana das
Srila Prabhupada sanctioned and promoted the amara ajnara guru, like Lord Caitanya did.
Fortunately there are liberated acharyas within Iskcon. What’s more important is that we ourselves become liberated. Then we won’t have fanatical ideas about “the guru”. Rather, at that time you can act as a liberated guru yourself.
@Pratyatosa dasa
You have to make right analysis regarding that statement. In that you fail, completely.
@Just-a-fruit-seller
Fruit-seller, you make a funny analysis with your fantasies about me “being angry”. According to your crystal ball or just great long distance mystic capacities or …?
Actually I write in a jolly, devotional mood. Why would I be angry? There is no reason whatsoever for me to be angry.
Just a suggestion; perhaps you better focus on fruit selling than trying to analyse a person’s pschye.
@Raja Gopala dasa: ” than trying to analyse a person’s pschye”
Raja Gopala dasa obviously came here to learn what is Vaishnava etiquette.
Having produced meanwhile 43 fallen pseudo gurus – latest candidate Mahanidhi (swami?) – any normal person who is not on medication would admit that ISKCON’s guru performance is rather chaotic. What results in assuming a more humble attitude when discussing with ritviks if Prabhupada is able to still initiate new devotees, yes or no.
Good news is that by giving folks like Raja Gopala dasa a chance to express himself we can know what is all of ISKCON’s present status. Arrogance of having captured Prabhupada’s temple buildings, enviousness towards ISKCON Bangalore’s success story and at the same time Raja Gopala has zero preaching results in the West. No media coverage since 20 years. Western temples are empty, farms being sold, Western temples mortgaged to finance projects in Asia and so on and so forth, e.g. thousands of kicked out devotees.
And here comes a clown, Raja Gopala Dasa, to explain that he went to Vrindavan (with temple laxmi), visited Prabhupada’s samadhi and found out – realized – that Prabhupada is dead. Hmm, is there much more to say than send this clown to another clown academy? Unteachable nutcase. What is he doing here? Not even funny…
Soooooo Mahanidhi has been publishing his own books – interesting and what makes him think he is on T-R-A-N-S-C-E-N-D-E-N-T-A-L PLATFORM? Who is the nutcase that authorised him to be a Diksa guru since Srila Prabhupada NEVER appointed ANYONE as Diksa guru? Srila Prabhupada ONLY left us with the Ritvik system July 9th 1977 ORDER BAS! NO APPOINTMENT FOR GURUS – SIMPLE AS THAT!
Very long time back (say early 1990’s) I heard from Kisrodaksyee Visnu ex first Temple President of Krsna Balarama Temple VRINDAVAN that he had SEEN Mahanidhi associating VERY inimately with a woman FOR SEX. So it is not surprising he got caught —-eventually people DO find out.
The bogus gbc are no fools IN THIS MATTER they KNEW about it ALL the time. THIS time they can NOT afford to have him be part of the GANG – he has become too hot since EVERYONE KNOWS ABOUT IT. So they pension him off. “Resign” from ISKCON? No! More like they could not handle the situation.
WE DON’T ALLOW ANY LITERATURE WHICH IS NOT GIVEN BY LIBERATED SOUL.
The difference between Srila Prabhupada’s books and other so-called gurus writing is Srila Prabhupada’s instruction was coming DIRECTLY from Krsna. This is TRANSCENDENTAL platform. Srila Prabhupada encouraged his disciples however, to write their realizations.
Note:His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada is ALWAYS consulting krsna
760714iv.ny
Bali-mardana: In other words, when you decide that someone is to be in charge of a particular temple does Krsna tell you that this person should be in charge.
Interviewer: Or do you by judging him say this person is qualified.
Prabhupada: YES, BECAUSE A DEVOTEE ALWAYS CONSULTS KRSNA AND HE GIVES ORDER.
Interviewer: IT’S A MORE DIRECT COMMUNICATION.
Prabhupada: YES. AND HE GIVES ORDER.
Ramesvara: Because intelligence, our philosophy is that intelligence comes from Krsna. So if I have some…
Interviewer: And your philosophy is that your daily necessities come from Krsna as well.
Ramesvara: Yes, try to understand. Suppose my intelligence sees that this person is qualified, that means Krsna has told me.
Prabhupada: NO, NOT NECESSARILY, KRSNA WILL TELL DIRECTLY. A DEVOTEE ALWAYS CONSULTS KRSNA AND KRSNA TELLS HIM, “DO LIKE THIS.” NOT FIGURATIVELY.
Interviewer: Does that apply then to other kinds of decisions and other kinds of activities as well?
Prabhupada: EVERYTHING. BECAUSE A DEVOTEE DOES NOT DO ANYTHING WITHOUT CONSULTING KRSNA.
Note: HIS DIVINE GRACE Srila Prabhupada speaks as Krsna speaks.
Antya 5.71
One is forbidden to accept the guru, or spiritual master, as an ordinary human being (gurusu nara-matih). When Ramananda Raya spoke to Pradyumna Misra, Pradyumna Misra could understand that Ramananda Raya was not an ordinary human being. A SPIRITUALLY ADVANCED PERSON WHO ACTS WITH AUTHORITY, AS THE SPIRITUAL MASTER, SPEAKS AS THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD DICTATES FROM WITHIN. THUS IT IS NOT HE THAT IS PERSONALLY SPEAKING. WHEN A PURE DEVOTEE OR SPIRITUAL MASTER SPEAKS, WHAT HE SAYS SHOULD BE ACCEPTED AS HAVING BEEN DIRECTLY SPOKEN BY THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD IN THE PARAMPARA SYSTEM.
Note: difference is Srila Prabhupada speaks what Krsna speaks and so-called gurus have to jog the brain to give answers.
Adi 8.39 The Author Receives the Orders of Krsna and Guru
It is not possible for a common man to write books on bhakti, for his writings will not be effective. He may be a very great scholar and expert in presenting literature in flowery language, but this is not at all helpful in understanding transcendental literature. EVEN IF TRANSCENDENTAL LITERATURE IS WRITTEN IN FAULTY LANGUAGE, IT IS ACCEPTABLE IF IT IS WRITTEN BY A DEVOTEE, WHEREAS SO-CALLED TRANSCENDENTAL LITERATURE WRITTEN BY A MUNDANE SCHOLAR, EVEN IF IT IS A VERY HIGHLY POLISHED LITERARY PRESENTATION, CANNOT BE ACCEPTED. THE SECRET IN A DEVOTEE’S WRITING IS THAT WHEN HE WRITES ABOUT THE PASTIMES OF THE LORD, THE LORD HELPS HIM; HE DOES NOT WRITE HIMSELF. AS STATED IN THE BHAGAVAD-GITA (10.10), DADAMI BUDDHI-YOGAM TAM YENA MAM UPAYANTI TE. SINCE A DEVOTEE WRITES IN SERVICE TO THE LORD, THE LORD FROM WITHIN GIVES HIM SO MUCH INTELLIGENCE THAT HE SITS DOWN NEAR THE LORD AND GOES ON WRITING BOOKS. KRSNADASA KAVIRAJA GOSVAMI CONFIRMS THAT WHAT VRNDAVANA DASA THAKURA WROTE WAS ACTUALLY SPOKEN BY LORD CAITANYA MAHAPRABHU, AND HE SIMPLY REPEATED IT. The same holds true for Sri Caitanya-caritamrta. Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami wrote Sri Caitanya-caritamrta in his old age, in an invalid condition, but it is such a sublime scripture that Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja used to say, “The time will come when the people of the world will learn Bengali to read Sri Caitanya-caritamrta.” We are trying to present Sri Caitanya-caritamrta in English and do not know how successful it will be, but if one reads the original Caitanya-caritamrta in Bengali he will relish increasing ecstasy in devotional service.
Adi 8.72 The Author Receives the Orders of Krsna and Guru
To write about the transcendental pastimes of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is not an ordinary endeavor. UNLESS ONE IS EMPOWERED BY THE HIGHER AUTHORITIES, OR ADVANCED DEVOTEES, ONE CANNOT WRITE TRANSCENDENTAL LITERATURE, FOR ALL SUCH LITERATURE MUST BE ABOVE SUSPICION, OR, IN OTHER WORDS, IT MUST HAVE NONE OF THE DEFECTS OF CONDITIONED SOULS, NAMELY, MISTAKES, ILLUSIONS, CHEATING AND IMPERFECT SENSE PERCEPTIONS. The words of Krsna and the disciplic succession that carries the orders of Krsna are actually authoritative. To be empowered to write transcendental literature is a privilege in which a writer can take great pride. As a humble Vaisnava, Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami, being thus empowered, felt very much ashamed that it was he who was to narrate the pastimes of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu.
Adi 9.4 The Tree of Devotional Service
This is the process for writing transcendental literature. A SENTIMENTALIST WHO HAS NO VAISNAVA QUALIFICATIONS CANNOT PRODUCE TRANSCENDENTAL WRITINGS. There are many fools who consider krsna-lila to be a subject of art and write or paint pictures about the pastimes of Lord Krsna with the gopis, sometimes depicting them in a manner practically obscene. These fools take pleasure in material sense gratification, but one who wants to make advancement in spiritual life must scrupulously avoid their literature. UNLESS ONE IS A SERVANT OF KRSNA AND THE VAISNAVAS, AS KRSNADASA KAVIRAJA GOSVAMI PRESENTS HIMSELF TO BE IN OFFERING RESPECTS TO LORD CAITANYA, HIS ASSOCIATES AND HIS DISCIPLES, ONE SHOULD NOT ATTEMPT TO WRITE TRANSCENDENTAL LITERATURE.
72-02-28. Letter: Satsvarupa
You ask one question about the nature of books I want you to write as my disciples; on this point, Krsna Consciousness is not limited. Persons like all of the Gosvamis wrote so many books, Visvanatha Cakravarti, and all the acaryas wrote books, and still I am writing books. Similarly, also my disciples will write. SO ANY SELF-REALIZED SOUL CAN WRITE UNLIMITED BOOKS WITHOUT DEVIATING FROM THE ORIGINAL IDEAS.
Madhya 12.150 The Cleansing of the Gundica Temple
THIS IS A MATTER OF ETIQUETTE. IF A PREVIOUS ACARYA HAS ALREADY WRITTEN ABOUT SOMETHING, THERE IS NO NEED TO REPEAT IT FOR PERSONAL SENSE GRATIFICATION OR TO OUTDO THE PREVIOUS ACARYA. UNLESS THERE IS SOME DEFINITE IMPROVEMENT, ONE SHOULD NOT REPEAT.
760705rc.wdc Conversations
Prabhupada: BRAHMA-SUTRA-PADAIS CAIVA HETUMADBHIR VINISCITAIH. Very…. Nyaya-prasthana. But Vedanta-sutra is explained in Srimad-Bhagavatam. THEREFORE OUR GAUDIYA VAISNAVAS, THEY DID NOT WRITE ANY COMMENT ON THE VEDANTA-SUTRA. THEY ACCEPT SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM IS THE REAL BHASYA. BUT WHEN THE GAUDIYA-VAISNAVAS ARE CHALLENGED THAT “YOU HAVE NO VEDANTA-SUTRA-BHASYA, THEREFORE YOU CANNOT BE ACCEPTED AS TRANSCENDENTAL PARTY,” SO BALADEVA VIDYABHUSANA IMMEDIATELY GAVE GOVINDA-BHASYA ON VEDANTA. OUR GOSVAMIS, THEY DID NOT WRITE BECAUSE THEY KNEW BRAHMA-SUTRA BHASYA, SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM.
Adi 9.5 The Tree of Devotional Service
THIS IS THE SUM AND SUBSTANCE OF TRANSCENDENTAL WRITING. ONE MUST BE AN AUTHORIZED VAISNAVA, HUMBLE AND PURE. ONE SHOULD WRITE TRANSCENDENTAL LITERATURE TO PURIFY ONESELF, NOT FOR CREDIT. By writing about the pastimes of the Lord, one associates with the Lord directly. One should not ambitiously think, “I shall become a great author. I shall be celebrated as a writer.” These are material desires. ONE SHOULD ATTEMPT TO WRITE FOR SELF-PURIFICATION. IT MAY BE PUBLISHED OR IT MAY NOT BE PUBLISHED, BUT THAT DOES NOT MATTER. IF ONE IS ACTUALLY SINCERE IN WRITING, ALL HIS AMBITIONS WILL BE FULFILLED. WHETHER ONE IS KNOWN AS A GREAT AUTHOR IS INCIDENTAL. ONE SHOULD NOT ATTEMPT TO WRITE TRANSCENDENTAL LITERATURE FOR MATERIAL NAME AND FAME.
Adi 11.7 The Expansions of Lord Nityananda
ONE SHOULD NOT WRITE BOOKS OR ESSAYS ON TRANSCENDENTAL SUBJECT MATTER FOR MATERIAL NAME, FAME OR PROFIT. TRANSCENDENTAL LITERATURE MUST BE WRITTEN UNDER THE DIRECTION OF A SUPERIOR AUTHORITY BECAUSE IT IS NOT MEANT FOR MATERIAL PURPOSES. If one tries to write under superior authority, he becomes purified. ALL KRSNA CONSCIOUS ACTIVITIES SHOULD BE UNDERTAKEN FOR PERSONAL PURIFICATION (APANA SODHITE), NOT FOR MATERIAL GAIN.
Adi 14.1 Lord Caitanya’ s Childhood Pastimes
The author of Caitanya-caritamrta takes shelter of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu to describe the pastimes of His appearance as a child because one cannot write such transcendental literature by mental speculation. One who writes about the Supreme Personality of Godhead must be especially favored by the Lord. SIMPLY BY ACADEMIC QUALIFICATIONS IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO WRITE SUCH LITERATURE.
Madhya 19.132 Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu Instructs Srila Rupa Gosvami
Srila Rupa Gosvami and Sanatana Gosvami had no fixed residence. They stayed beneath a tree for one day only and wrote huge volumes of transcendental literature. They not only wrote books but chanted, danced, discussed Krsna and remembered Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s pastimes. Thus they executed devotional service.
In Vrndavana there are prakrta-sahajiyas who say that writing books or even touching books is taboo. For them, devotional service means being relieved from these activities. Whenever they are asked to hear a recitation of Vedic literature, they refuse, saying, “What business do we have reading or hearing transcendental literatures? They are meant for neophytes.” They pose themselves to be too elevated to exert energy for reading, writing and hearing. However, pure devotees under the guidance of Srila Rupa Gosvami reject this sahajiya philosophy. IT IS CERTAINLY NOT GOOD TO WRITE LITERATURE FOR MONEY OR REPUTATION, BUT TO WRITE BOOKS AND PUBLISH THEM FOR THE ENLIGHTENMENT OF THE GENERAL POPULACE IS REAL SERVICE TO THE LORD. That was Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati’s opinion, and he specifically told his disciples to write books. He actually preferred to publish books rather than establish temples. Temple construction is meant for the general populace and neophyte devotees, BUT THE BUSINESS OF ADVANCED AND EMPOWERED DEVOTEES IS TO WRITE BOOKS, PUBLISH THEM AND DISTRIBUTE THEM WIDELY. According to Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, distributing literature is like playing on a great mrdanga. Consequently we always request members of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness to publish as many books as possible and distribute them widely throughout the world. By thus following in the footsteps of Srila Rupa Gosvami, one can become a rupanuga devotee.
Antya 1.211 Srila Rupa Gosvami’ s Second Meeting With the Lord
UNLESS ONE IS A FULLY UNALLOYED DEVOTEE OF THE LORD, ONE SHOULD NOT TRY TO DESCRIBE THE PASTIMES OF KRSNA IN POETRY, FOR IT WILL BE ONLY MUNDANE. There are many descriptions of Krsna’s Bhagavad-gita written by persons whose consciousness is mundane and who are not qualified by pure devotion. Although they attempted to write transcendental literature, they could not fully engage even a single devotee in Krsna’s service. Such literature is mundane, and therefore, as warned by Sri Sanatana Gosvami, one should not touch it.
Antya 5.133 How Pradyumna Misra Received Instructions from Ramananda Raya
“Only if you follow the principles of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and His devotees will your learning be successful. Then you will be able to write about the TRANSCENDENTAL pastimes of Krsna WITHOUT MATERIAL CONTAMINATION.
720821SB.LA Lectures
Uttama, uttama means udgata-tama. This material world is tama, ignorance, darkness. And Krsna is beyond this material world; therefore He is called para. Para means transcendental. SO UTTAMA-SLOKA. SO WHEN WE OFFER OUR PRAYERS TO KRSNA, THEY ARE NOT ORDINARY WORDS. THEREFORE THOSE WHO ARE NOT LIBERATED SOUL, THEY CANNOT OFFER PRAYERS ACTUALLY. WE HAVE TO REPEAT THE PRAYERS OFFERED BY LIBERATED SOUL, NOT BY ORDINARY MAN. Because he is not yet UTTAMA, he is not yet in the TRANSCENDENTAL platform. Therefore WE DON’T ALLOW SONGS WHICH ARE NOT SUNG BY LIBERATED SOULS like Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Narottama dasa Thakura. They are liberated souls. WE DON’T ALLOW ANY LITERATURE WHICH IS NOT GIVEN BY LIBERATED SOUL. Literatures, they are always following Vedic principles. Vedas, the original transcendental literature, and any literature which is produced under the guidance of Vedic literature, that is also nice. That is perfect. THEREFORE WHENEVER WE WRITE SOMETHING, WE GIVE IMMEDIATELY VEDIC EVIDENCE. WE GIVE SOME SANSKRIT VERSE. THIS MEANS THAT WE ARE NOT MANUFACTURING OURSELF. What we have heard from the parampara system, from higher authorities, we are presenting, simply, in our own language, and the evidence is this Vedic verse. This is perfect literature.
“720926SB.LA Lectures
So everything is there Srimad-Bhagavatam. That is the topmost knowledge. That is transcendental knowledge. That is not material knowledge. Material knowledge, if you write some book, it has no meaning, because it is defective. BUT SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM IS NOT ORDINARY KNOWLEDGE. IT IS TRANSCENDENTAL KNOWLEDGE. THERE IS NO DEFECT.
SB 9.10.3 T The Pastimes of the Supreme Lord, Ramacandra
tasyanucaritam rajann
rsibhis TATTVA-DARSIBHIH
srutam hi varnitam bhuri
tvaya sita-pater muhuh
SYNONYMS
tasya–of Him, the Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Ramacandra and His brothers; anucaritam–transcendental activities; rajan–O King (Maharaja Pariksit); rsibhih–by great sages or saintly persons; TATTVA-DARSIBHIH–BY PERSONS WHO KNOW THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH; srutam–have all been heard; hi–indeed; varnitam–as they have been so nicely described; bhuri–many; tvaya–by you; sita-pateh–of Lord Ramacandra, the husband of mother Sita; muhuh–more than often.
TRANSLATION
O King Pariksit, the transcendental activities of Lord Ramacandra have been described by great saintly persons who have seen the truth. Because you have heard again and again about Lord Ramacandra, the husband of mother Sita, I shall describe these activities only in brief. Please listen.
PURPORT
Modern Raksasas, posing as educationally advanced merely because they have doctorates, have tried to prove that Lord Ramacandra is not the Supreme Personality of Godhead but an ordinary person. BUT THOSE WHO ARE LEARNED AND SPIRITUALLY ADVANCED WILL NEVER ACCEPT SUCH NOTIONS; THEY WILL ACCEPT THE DESCRIPTIONS OF LORD RAMACANDRA AND HIS ACTIVITIES ONLY AS PRESENTED BY TATTVA-DARSIS, THOSE WHO KNOW THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH. In Bhagavad-gita (4.34) the Supreme Personality of Godhead advises:
tad viddhi pranipatena
pariprasnena sevaya
upadeksyanti te jnanam
jnaninas TATTVA-DARSINAH
“Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. THE SELF-REALIZED SOUL CAN IMPART KNOWLEDGE UNTO YOU BECAUSE HE HAS SEEN THE TRUTH.” UNLESS ONE IS TATTVA-DARSI, IN COMPLETE KNOWLEDGE OF THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH, ONE CANNOT DESCRIBE THE ACTIVITIES OF THE PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD. Therefore although there are many so-called Ramayanas, or histories of Lord Ramacandra’s activities, some of them are not actually authoritative. Sometimes Lord Ramacandra’s activities are described in terms of one’s own imaginations, speculations or material sentiments. But the characteristics of Lord Ramacandra should not be handled as something imaginary. While describing the history of Lord Ramacandra, Sukadeva Gosvami told Maharaja Pariksit, “You have already heard about the activities of Lord Ramacandra.” Apparently, therefore, five thousand years ago there were many Ramayanas, or histories of Lord Ramacandra’s activities, and there are many still. BUT WE MUST SELECT ONLY THOSE BOOKS WRITTEN BY TATTVA-DARSIS (JNANINAS TATTVA-DARSINAH), NOT THE BOOKS OF SO-CALLED SCHOLARS WHO CLAIM KNOWLEDGE ONLY ON THE BASIS OF A DOCTORATE. This is a warning by Sukadeva Gosvami. Rsibhis tattva-darsibhih. Although the Ramayana composed by Valmiki is a huge literature, the same activities are summarized here by Sukadeva Gosvami in a few verses.
SB 10.3.14
“Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because he has SEEN the truth.” Vasudeva begot the Supreme Personality of Godhead, yet he was in full knowledge of how the Supreme Lord appears and disappears. He was therefore TATTVA-DARSI, a seer of the truth, **BECAUSE HE PERSONALLY SAW** how the Supreme Absolute Truth appeared as his son.
760810SB.TEH Lectures
So things are to be adjusted as it is prescribed by great authorities. In Bhakti-rasamrta you’ll find the regulative principles. That is called Vaisnava-smrti. So here we cannot live without working, and still we have to become always Krsna conscious. This art, to understand and to practice, is Krsna consciousness movement. Then in spite of my being engaged in so many so-called material things because a devotee has nothing to do with material things. Even if he works for maintenance of the body, that is not material. Just like Bhaktivinoda Thakura, who was magistrate. BUT IT IS NOT FOR A MAGISTRATE TO WRITE SO MANY BOOKS–SIDDHANTA-PURNAM. SO HE WAS IN A DIFFERENT TRANSCENDENTAL PLATFORM. SO THAT IS POSSIBLE.
710117SB.ALL Lectures
If you sit down and write some article on Krsna, that means you have to concentrate on Krsna’s activities or Krsna’s devotees’ activities, and that very process will purify your heart. THEREFORE WE ALWAYS RECOMMEND TO OUR STUDENTS THAT YOU WRITE ARTICLES, READ OUR MAGAZINE, READ OUR BOOK. In this way if we keep ourself… Work for Krsna. This… We have come here in this pandal or in this Kumbha-mela not for any other purpose than to glorify the Supreme Lord so that people may understand the importance of this movement.
74-11-22. Letter: Bahurupa
I am pleased to hear that you are chanting 16 rounds daily and reading my books regularly and following the four rules. In my books the philosophy of Krishna Consciousness is EXPLAINED FULLY so if there is anything which you do not understand, then you simply have to read again and again. BY READING DAILY THE KNOWLEDGE WILL BE REVEALED TO YOU AND BY THIS PROCESS YOUR SPIRITUAL LIFE WILL DEVELOP.
731208SB.LA Lectures
So if you want to understand Bhagavad-gita, then we must understand in the same way as the person who directly heard from. This is called parampara system. Suppose I have heard something from my spiritual master, so I speak to you the same thing. So this is parampara system. YOU CANNOT IMAGINE WHAT MY SPIRITUAL MASTER SAID. OR EVEN IF YOU READ SOME BOOKS, YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND UNLESS YOU UNDERSTAND IT FROM ME. THIS IS CALLED PARAMPARA SYSTEM. You cannot jump over to the superior guru, neglecting the next acarya, immediate next acarya.
760331SB.VRN Lectures
Satam prasangad mama virya-samvidah. That sravana, hearing also, should be accepted from devotee, FROM REAL DEVOTEE. Sri Svarupa Damodara Gosvami recommended that a brahmana… He wrote something about Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and there were so many discrepancies. So Svarupa Damodara Gosvami was not at all satisfied with such writings. He chastised the brahmana that “You cannot write.” SO UNLESS ONE IS SELF-REALIZED, THERE IS PRACTICALLY NO USE WRITING ABOUT KRSNA. THIS TRANSCENDENTAL WRITING DOES NOT DEPEND ON MATERIAL EDUCATION. IT DEPENDS ON THE SPIRITUAL REALIZATION. YOU’LL FIND, THEREFORE, IN THE COMMENTS OF BHAGAVATAM BY DIFFERENT ACARYAS, EVEN THERE ARE SOME DISCREPANCIES, THEY ARE ACCEPTED AS ASAT-PATHA. IT SHOULD REMAIN AS IT IS.
So Sanatana Gosvami therefore said, AVAISNAVA-MUKHODGIRNAM PUTAM HARI-KATHAMRTAM, SRAVANAM NAIVA KARTAVYAM: “ONE WHO IS NOT VAISNAVA, FROM HIM ONE SHOULD NOT HEAR HARI-KATHAMRTAM.” Hari-katha Srimad-Bhagavatam is hari-katha, and it is amrta, nectarine. But if it is recited or explained by some avaisnava, one should not hear. It is forbidden. The example is given, sarpocchistam payo yatha. SO PROFESSIONAL RECITERS OR ONE WHO SPEAKS AND WRITES FOR LIVING MEANS IT IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. NA VYAKHYAM UPAYUNJITAH. ONE SHOULD NOT MAKE BHAGAVATA RECITATION AS A MEANS OF LIVELIHOOD. THAT IS, THE PROCESS IS NOT ACCEPTED. So sravanam kirtanam visnoh. You should hear from Vaisnava, at least one who is trying to become Vaisnava, not professional man. BHAKTIH PARESANUBHAVO VIRAKTIR ANYATRA SYAT.
SO THE TEST OF ADVANCEMENT IN KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS IS THAT ONE SHOULD BE DETESTFUL, LOSE ATTACHMENT TO THE MATERIAL THINGS.
680821SB.MON Lectures
In the Bhagavad-gita it is said, the Lord says, “ANYONE WHO IS ENGAGED IN UNALLOYED DEVOTIONAL SERVICE UNTO ME, SO HE IS TRANSCENDENTAL.” SA GUNAN SAMATITYAITAN. Gunan means these modes, different modes–modes of ignorance, modes of passion, modes of goodness. GOODNESS IS ALSO MATERIAL. THAT IS NOT SPIRITUAL. IF YOU BECOME VERY GOOD MORALIST OR VERY RELIGIOUS, FOLLOWING ALL THE RULES AND REGULATIONS, THAT IS GOOD BUT THAT IS NOT SPIRITUAL. THE SPIRITUAL IS FAR ABOVE.
720814BS.LA Lectures
BRAHMA-SAMHITA MEANS… BRAHMA IS THE FIRST LIVING CREATURE APPEARED IN THIS UNIVERSE, AND AFTER HIS REALIZATION, HE IS OFFERING PRAYER. REALIZATION MEANS YOU SHOULD WRITE, EVERY ONE OF YOU, WHAT IS YOUR REALIZATION. WHAT FOR THIS BACK TO GODHEAD IS? YOU WRITE YOUR REALIZATION, WHAT YOU HAVE REALIZED ABOUT KRSNA. THAT IS REQUIRED. IT IS NOT PASSIVE. ALWAYS YOU SHOULD BE ACTIVE. WHENEVER YOU FIND TIME, YOU WRITE. NEVER MIND, TWO LINES, FOUR LINES, BUT YOU WRITE YOUR REALIZATION. SRAVANAM KIRTANAM, WRITING OR OFFERING PRAYERS, GLORIES. THIS IS ONE OF THE FUNCTION OF THE VAISNAVA. YOU ARE HEARING, BUT YOU HAVE TO WRITE ALSO. THEN WRITE MEANS SMARANAM, REMEMBERING WHAT YOU HAVE HEARD FROM YOUR SPIRITUAL MASTER, FROM THE SCRIPTURE. SRAVANAM KIRTANAM VISNOH: ABOUT VISNU, NOT FOR OTHERS. DON’T WRITE ANY NONSENSE THING FOR ANY NONSENSE MAN. USELESS WASTE OF TIME. Visnu. Write about Visnu, Krsna.
750620AR.LA Lectures
Prabhupada: YES. AND OUR MEN, ALL OUR MEN SHOULD WRITE. OTHERWISE HOW WE SHALL KNOW THAT HE HAS UNDERSTOOD THE PHILOSOPHY? WRITING MEANS SRAVANAM KIRTANAM. SRAVANAM MEANS HEARING FROM THE AUTHORITY AND AGAIN REPEAT IT. This is our business, sravanam kirtanam visnoh, about Visnu, not for any politician or any other man. Sravanam kirtanam visnoh, about Krsna or Visnu. So that is success. HEAR AND REPEAT, HEAR AND REPEAT. YOU HAVEN’T GOT TO MANUFACTURE. ANY ONE OF US, SIMPLY IF YOU REPRODUCE THE PURPORT WHICH I HAVE GIVEN IN THE BHAGAVATA, YOU BECOME A GOOD SPEAKER.
69-12-13. Letter: Satsvarupa
Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated December 7, 1969 along with the article of Acyutananda. Your decision not to publish this article is correct. TO THE NEOPHYTE DEVOTEES WE SHOULD ISSUE INSTRUCTION THAT THERE ARE FOUR STAGES OF UNDERSTANDING THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH. THE FIRST STAGE IS RE-ESTABLISHING OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH KRISHNA. THIS IS THE FIRST STAGE. THE SECOND STAGE IS AFTER UNDERSTANDING OUR RELATIONSHIP, TO PERFORM DEVOTIONAL SERVICE UNDER PROPER GUIDANCE. THE THIRD STAGE IS ACQUISITION OF THE DESIRED OBJECT. THE FOURTH STAGE IS RELISHING THE NECTAR OF PERFECTIONAL LOVE. SO RADHA-KRISHNA LILA BELONGS TO THE FOURTH STAGE OF UNDERSTANDING, AND WE ARE PUBLISHING BTG FOR PEOPLE IN GENERAL TO RE-ESTABLISH THEIR FORGOTTEN RELATIONSHIP WITH KRISHNA. SO WE SHOULD ALWAYS REMEMBER THIS AND FROM SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM, BHAGAVAD-GITA, AND ISOPANISAD THEY SHOULD TRY TO WRITE HOW OUR RELATIONSHIP IS REVOKED FROM THIS STAGE OF FORGETFULNESS. THEY SHOULD WRITE ARTICLES LIKE THIS: 1) KRISHNA, THE OMNIPOTENT, 2) HOW GOD CAN BE REALIZED AS ALL-PERVASIVE, 3) THE ORIGINAL SOURCE OF EVERYTHING, 4) TRANSCENDENTAL PROCESS OF HEARING, 5) HOW ONE GETS OUT OF THE CLUTCHES OF MAYA, 6) PRAYERS BY ARJUNA, 7) PRAYERS BY KUNTI DEVI, 8) PRAYERS BY BHISMADEVA. THEY SHOULD TRY TO UNDERSTAND KRISHNA FIRST IN SO MANY WAYS WHICH ARE DESCRIBED IN OUR BHAGAVATAM. THEY SHOULD READ THEM CAREFULLY AND PICK UP SUBJECT MATTERS AS ABOVE MENTIONED. WHAT GENERAL PEOPLE WILL UNDERSTAND ABOUT RADHA-KRISHNA LILA? Immediately they will take it as ordinary boys and girls in spite of a thousand warnings, “This is not this, this is not this.” So you shall issue instruction that they should write articles on the subject matters as above mentioned. THEY SHOULD READ OUR BHAGAVATAM. THE PURPORTS ARE THERE: THEY SHOULD ASSIMILATE THEM IN THEIR OWN WORDS IN A LITERARY CAREER.
71-01-11. Letter: Satsvarupa
I hear from all our centers that they have instituted regular classes for writing articles and still you say they do not contribute sufficiently to Back to Godhead. How is that? I WANT ALL OUR STUDENTS TO WRITE ARTICLES FOR OUR TRANSCENDENTAL MAGAZINE.
72-03-12.Letter: Billy Reyburne
REGARDING YOUR QUESTION ABOUT WRITING SONGS ABOUT KRISHNA, THIS IS NOT VERY IMPORTANT THING. YOU CAN WRITE, BUT ONE CANNOT TAKE IT VERY SERIOUSLY. IF ANY VAISNAVA IS WRITING SONG ABOUT KRISHNA, THAT SHOULD BE FROM ONE WHO HIMSELF HAS REALIZED KRISHNA, JUST LIKE OUR GREAT SAINTS AND ACARYAS LIKE MADHVACARYA, RAMANUJACARYA, RUPA GOSVAMI, SIX GOSVAMIS, BILVAMANGALA, BHAKTIVINODE THAKURA, LIKE THAT. THEY ARE SELF-REALIZED SOULS, THEREFORE IF THEY WRITE SOMETHING SONG ABOUT KRISHNA, THAT IS PERFECTLY FROM THE TRANSCENDENTAL PLATFORM, WITHOUT ANY TINGE OF MUNDANE INFLUENCE OR NONSENSE IMAGINATION. UNLESS SOMEONE COMES IN THE CATEGORY OF THESE GREAT LEADING VAISNAVA PERSONALITIES, HIS MANUFACTURING SOME SONGS WILL BE MISLEADING TO HIMSELF AND TO OTHERS. AND UNLESS HIS WRITING OF POEMS AND SONGS CAN BE ACCEPTED AS GOSPEL, AS VEDAS OR THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH, SUCH WRITING IS DIVERTING THE ATTENTION FROM THE SUBJECT MATTER ONLY AND SHOULD NOT BE REGARDED VERY SERIOUSLY. NOW YOU SHOULD BECOME SERIOUS TO PURSUE THIS KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS MOVEMENT WITH FULL ENERGY OF BODY, MIND AND SOUL. IF YOU ARE WRITING POEMS AND SONGS, THAT’S ALRIGHT, YOU CAN DO IT ALSO, BUT IF YOU CAN WRITE ARTICLES FOR OUR BACK TO GODHEAD MAGAZINE, THAT IS BETTER, THAT IS SOLID PREACHING WORK. NO ONE SHOULD WRITE SONGS OF KRISHNA UNLESS HE IS SELF-REALIZED SOUL, THAT WILL SPOIL THE VALUE OF THE WHOLE THING. BUT TRY TO USE YOUR WRITING AND SINGING TALENT FOR KRISHNA’S PREACHING WORK, BY WRITING ARTICLES, SINGING THE KIRTANA, LIKE THAT. Than you will be happy, and I think you should without further delay try to become devotees as the others are doing and live with us and practise the regulative principles of brahmacari life. In this way, become determined to fix your all attention for seeing Krishna face to face by the Krishna Consciousness process and than you shall qualify yourself for writing songs about Krishna and you chant always this Hare Krishna mantra you can come to the highest point of seeing Krishna very soon, you may know it for certain.
73-10-14. Letter: Patita Uddharana:
“It is by the mercy of all these Vaisnavas and gurus that I attempt to write about the pastimes and qualities of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu. WHETHER I KNOW OR KNOW NOT, IT IS FOR SELF PURIFICATION THAT I WRITE THIS BOOK.”
THE PURPORT IS THAT FOR TRANSCENDENTAL WRITING ONE MUST BE AN AUTHORIZED VAISNAVA AND SHOULD WRITE TO PURIFY ONESELF, NOT FOR CREDIT. IT MAY OR MAY NOT BE PUBLISHED, BUT ONE WHO IS ACTUALLY SINCERE IN WRITING, ALL HIS AMBITIONS WILL BE FULFILLED.
770216r2.may Conversations
Hari-sauri: That man from Delhi said that he thought you were an incarnation of Vyasadeva.
Prabhupada: Yes. Any devotee in literary career, he is to be understood… Just like our Vrndavana dasa Thakura. He is described as incarnation of Vyasadeva because Vyasadeva wrote Bhagavatam and he wrote Caitanya-bhagavata.
Pradyumna: Vyasa-puja.
Prabhupada: Vyasa-puja. Vyasa-prasadam. UNLESS ONE IS BLESSED BY VYASADEVA, HE CANNOT WRITE TRANSCENDENTAL LITERATURE.
SB 3.4.20 P Vidura Approaches Maitreya
SRI UDDHAVA’S ACTUAL LIFE IS THE DIRECT SYMBOL OF THE CATUH-SLOKI BHAGAVATAM ENUNCIATED FIRST TO BRAHMAJI BY THE PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD. These four very great and important verses from Srimad-Bhagavatam are particularly taken out by the Mayavadi speculators, who construe a different purport to suit their impersonal view of monism. Here is the proper answer to such unauthorized speculators. THE VERSES OF SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM ARE PURELY THEISTIC SCIENCE UNDERSTANDABLE BY THE POSTGRADUATE STUDENTS OF BHAGAVAD-GITA, THE UNAUTHORIZED DRY SPECULATORS ARE OFFENDERS AT THE LOTUS FEET OF THE LORD SRI KRSNA BECAUSE THEY DISTORT THE PURPORTS OF BHAGAVAD-GITA AND SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM TO MISLEAD THE PUBLIC AND PREPARE A DIRECT PATH TO THE HELL KNOWN AS ANDHA-TAMISRA. AS CONFIRMED IN BHAGAVAD-GITA (16.20) SUCH ENVIOUS SPECULATORS ARE WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE AND ARE SURELY CONDEMNED LIFE AFTER LIFE. They unnecessarily take shelter of Sripada Sankaracarya, but he was not so drastic as to commit an offense at the lotus feet of Lord Krsna. According to Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Sripada Sankaracarya preached the Mayavada philosophy for a particular purpose. Such a philosophy was necessary to defeat the Buddhist philosophy of the nonexistence of the spirit soul, but it was never meant for perpetual acceptance. It was an emergency. Thus Lord Krsna was accepted by Sankaracarya as the Supreme Personality of Godhead in his commentation on Bhagavad-gita. Since he was a great devotee of Lord Krsna, he did not dare write any commentary on Srimad-Bhagavatam because that would have been a direct offense at the lotus feet of the Lord. BUT LATER SPECULATORS, IN THE NAME OF MAYAVADA PHILOSOPHY, UNNECESSARILY MAKE THEIR COMMENTARY ON THE CATUH-SLOKI BHAGAVATAM WITHOUT ANY BONA FIDE INTENT.
SB 4.24.45-46 P Chanting the Song Sung by Lord Siva
WITHOUT SERVING KRSNA ACCORDING TO THE VIDHI-MARGA REGULATIVE PRINCIPLES OF THE PANCARATRIKA-VIDHI, UNSCRUPULOUS PERSONS WANT TO JUMP IMMEDIATELY TO THE RAGA-MARGA PRINCIPLES. SUCH PERSONS ARE CALLED SAHAJIYA. There are also demons who enjoy depicting Krsna and His pastimes with the gopis, taking advantage of Krsna by their licentious character. THESE DEMONS WHO PRINT BOOKS AND WRITE LYRICS ON THE RAGA-MARGA PRINCIPLES ARE SURELY ON THE WAY TO HELL. UNFORTUNATELY, THEY LEAD OTHERS DOWN WITH THEM.
Antya 7.134 The Meeting of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Vallabha Bhatta
“Whatever you might write due to false pride, trying to surpass Sridhara Svami, would carry a contrary purport. Therefore no one would pay attention to it.
PURPORT
Srimad-Bhagavatam has many tikas, or commentaries, following the parampara system, but Sridhara Svami’s is first. The commentaries of all the other acaryas follow his. The parampara system does not allow one to deviate from the commentaries of the previous acaryas. BY DEPENDING UPON THE PREVIOUS ACARYAS, ONE CAN WRITE BEAUTIFUL COMMENTARIES. HOWEVER, ONE CANNOT DEFY THE PREVIOUS ACARYAS. THE FALSE PRIDE THAT MAKES ONE THINK THAT HE CAN WRITE BETTER THAN THE PREVIOUS ACARYAS WILL MAKE ONE’S COMMENTS FAULTY. AT THE PRESENT MOMENT IT HAS BECOME FASHIONABLE FOR EVERYONE TO WRITE IN HIS OWN WAY, BUT SUCH WRITING IS NEVER ACCEPTED BY SERIOUS DEVOTEES. BECAUSE OF FALSE PRIDE, EVERY SCHOLAR AND PHILOSOPHER WANTS TO EXHIBIT HIS LEARNING BY INTERPRETING THE SASTRAS, ESPECIALLY BHAGAVAD-GITA AND SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM, IN HIS OWN WAY. THIS SYSTEM OF COMMENTING IN ONE’S OWN WAY IS FULLY CONDEMNED BY SRI CAITANYA MAHAPRABHU. THEREFORE HE SAYS, ‘ARTHA-VYASTA’ LIKHANA SEI. COMMENTARIES WRITTEN ACCORDING TO ONE’S OWN PHILOSOPHICAL WAY ARE NEVER ACCEPTED; NO ONE WILL APPRECIATE SUCH COMMENTARIES ON THE REVEALED SCRIPTURES.
67-04-07. Letter: Kirtanananda
I have seen in the bible that Lord Jesus Christ recommended this Kirtana performances in the Bible. You know better than me and I WOULD REQUEST YOU TO WRITE A SMALL BOOK ON SANKIRTAN MOVEMENT IN THE BIBLE. I HAVE GIVEN A NOTE OF DIRECTION TO HAYAGRIVA FOR WRITING A DRAMA ON LORD CAITANYA AND IF HE CAN DELIVER US A NICE DRAMA FOR STAGING IN YOUR DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE STATE IT WILL BE A GREAT STRIDE FOR OUR MISSION AND I HOPE IT WILL HELP US FINANCIALLY A GREAT DEAL. Just you encourage Hayagriva to write this Drama very nicely in Poetry so that they can be sung in western tone all over America and Europe and staged everywhere to cover our expenses.
68-10-21. Letter: Krsna dasa
I can see from your writing that you have got capacity to write, this is a great help. YOU CAN WRITE ARTICLES FOR BACK TO GODHEAD, SO WRITING CAPACITY IS NOT DISCOURAGED. And I shall always be glad to receive your long letters.
68-12-19. Letter: Janardana
So far as reviews I think that there is no need to review nonsense books and give them publicity at our cost. THE SINCERE THEISTS AND PHILOSOPHERS WILL SURELY APPRECIATE OUR PRESENTATION OF BHAGAVAD-GITA AS IT IS SO YOU CAN WRITE SOME ARTICLES ON THE BASIS OF OUR DISCUSSIONS IN THIS BOOK OR IN SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM.
69-02-22. Letter: Rayarama
Now our policy should be as follows: 1. The layout should be done by us, 2. There should be no advertisements, 3. Under different headings we shall publish articles from Bhagavad-gita As It Is, Srimad-Bhagavatam, Brahma Samhita, Nectar of Devotion, Vedanta Philosophy, Upanisads, etc. as well as comic pictures when possible. BESIDES THAT, IF SOME OF OUR STUDENTS WRITE AS THEY HAVE ASSIMILATED THE PHILOSOPHY, THAT ALSO SHOULD BE WELCOME.
69-03-30. Letter: Satyabhama
AND YOU WILL HAVE AMPLE OPPORTUNITY TO EDUCATE CHILDREN AND WRITE BOOKS FOR THEM BECAUSE THERE IS SUFFICIENT MATTER FOR PUBLISHING SUCH BOOKS FROM THE PURANAS, MAHABHARATA, SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM, AND MANY OTHER ALLIED LITERATURES. There are thousands of ideal historical events, which if we can put with suitable pictures, it will be a great idea and people will like to have such literature.
69-07-15. Letter: Vibhavati
Regarding your proposal of writing a book about child-raising, I do not think this is required with all the other writings that we have to do. AND BESIDES THAT, YOU ARE NOT THE MASTER OF THIS SUBJECT, SO WHO WILL READ SUCH A BOOK? I HAVE SEEN IN YOUR ARTICLE ON MR. LENNON THAT YOU HAVE A VERY NICE GIFT FOR WRITING, SO BETTER YOU SHOULD UTILIZE THIS GOD-GIVEN TALENT FOR WRITING ARTICLES FOR OUR BACK TO GODHEAD. There is immediate necessity for this, and for this writing you are qualified because you are a sincere devotee of this Krishna Consciousness Movement. SO WHY NOT WRITE NICE ARTICLES OF THIS PHILOSOPHY AS YOU HAVE ASSIMILATED IT? THIS WILL BE A VERY GREAT SERVICE BECAUSE WE ARE NOW CONVERTING BTG TO EXCLUSIVELY CONTAIN ARTICLES BY MY DISCIPLES AND MYSELF, ALONG WITH MANY PICTURES OF OUR SANKIRTANA ACTIVITIES.
70-07-19. Letter: Yogesvara
Some time back you sent another poetry which I have also sent to the editors; These poetics are nice, BUT NOW IF YOU WOULD WRITE SOME ARTICLES FOR OUR BTG THAT WILL BE EVEN BETTER. Now you have got some good understanding of our Krsna consciousness so you write it for publication.
I am very glad to know that you have got the experience and talent as well as the desire to write Krsna conscious children’s books. I have very encouraging report from Syamasundara. That the grammar school children in the villages of both England and Holland are very eager and ready for learning Krsna consciousness and their instructors are also very enthusiastic to introduce our program. SO YOU CAN WRITE MANY BOOKS FOR CHILDREN AND INSERT PICTURES, THEN THEY WILL BE A SURE SUCCESS.
THE BOOKS SHOULD BE WRITTEN IN SIMPLE LANGUAGE. FIRST OF ALL TRY TO EXPLAIN WHAT IS GOD, THEN WHAT IS THE RELATIONSHIP OF GOD WITH THE WORLD AND THE LIVING ENTITIES. THEN EXPLAIN WHAT IS OUR DUTY IN THAT RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD. IN THIS WAY WRITE THE SUBJECTS VERY CLEARLY. WHAT ONE LEARNS AS CHILD IS NOT LOST THROUGHOUT THE LIFE. So this is a very important business. Please execute it with great care and seriousness of purpose. May Krsna bless your sincere endeavor in his service. The more you work for Krsna, the more He will bestow auspicious intelligence upon you for furthering your loving service unto Him.
730729BG.LON Lectures
So this Mahabharata was written: stri-sudra-dvija-bandhunam trayi na sruti gocarah. Woman and dvija-bandhu and the sudras, it is very difficult for them to understand the Vedic literatures directly, because they have no advanced knowledge or education. Therefore the same thing. The Vedic knowledge was described in the Mahabharata. Because it is history. Everyone is interested to read history. So through history, the Vedic knowledge was imparted. Therefore, Mahabharata is called the fifth Vedas. There are four Vedas, Sama, Yajur, Rk, Atharva. And Mahabharata is fifth Veda. They are meant for this stri, sudra, dvija-bandhu. So Bhagavad-gita is within the Mahabharata. SO ACTUALLY IT WAS MEANT FOR THE LESS INTELLIGENT CLASS OF MEN. BUT, AT THE PRESENT MOMENT, THE HIGHEST INTELLIGENT CLASS OF MEN CANNOT UNDERSTAND. Just see the difference. Formerly, 5000 years, this was meant for the less intelligent class of men, and we have deteriorated so much that the so-called highest intelligent class of men cannot understand this Bhagavad-gita. And he is posted as the professor in the Oxford University.
Note:Srila Prabhupada clearly opposed the Gaudiya math books.
73-11-14. Letter: Sukadeva
Regarding the Gaudiya Math books being circulated there, who is distributing? Who is sending these books? The Gaudiya Math does not sell our books, why we should sell their books. Who has introduced these books? Let me know. THESE BOOKS SHOULD NOT AT ALL BE CIRCULATED IN OUR SOCIETY. BHAKTI VILAS TIRTHA IS VERY MUCH ANTAGONISTIC TO OUR SOCIETY AND HE HAS NO CLEAR CONCEPTION OF DEVOTIONAL SERVICE. HE IS CONTAMINATED. ANYWAY, WHO HAS INTRODUCED THESE BOOKS? YOU SAY THAT YOU WOULD READ ONLY ONE BOOK IF THAT WAS ALL THAT I HAD WRITTEN, SO YOU TEACH OTHERS TO DO LIKE THAT. You have very good determination.
75-11-09. Letter: Visvakarma
Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated September 3, 1975 with the enclosed statement about Van Maharaja. SO I HAVE NOW ISSUED ORDERS THAT ALL MY DISCIPLES SHOULD AVOID ALL OF MY GODBROTHERS. THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE ANY DEALINGS WITH THEM NOR EVEN CORRESPONDENCE, NOR SHOULD THEY GIVE THEM ANY OF MY BOOKS OR SHOULD THEY PURCHASE ANY OF THEIR BOOKS, NEITHER SHOULD YOU VISIT ANY OF THEIR TEMPLES. PLEASE AVOID THEM.
Note: Srila Prabhupada states that his godbrothers dISOBEYED THE GURU (Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura). This is 3rd offence in chanting the holy name. IF THEY DISOBEY THE GURU HOW CAN THEY BE GURU? Srila Prabhupada says they were NOT ACARYA but THEY MAY BE KANISTHA ADHIKARI (neophyte). This means they were NOT tattva darsinah (BG 4.34) self-realized. BOOKS from such CONTAMINATED CONDITIONED SOULS MUST be filled with FAULTY MENTAL SPECULATIONS.
74-04-28. Letter: Rupanuga
In the latter days of my Guru Maharaja he was very disgusted. Actually, he left this world earlier, otherwise he would have continued to live for more years. Still he requested his disciples to form a strong Governing body for preaching the cult of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. HE NEVER RECOMMENDED ANYONE TO BE ACARYA OF THE GAUDIYA MATH. BUT SRIDHARA MAHARAJA IS RESPONSIBLE FOR DISOBEYING THIS ORDER OF GURU MAHARAJA, AND HE AND OTHERS WHO ARE ALREADY DEAD UNNECESSARILY THOUGHT THAT THERE MUST BE ONE ACARYA. If Guru Maharaja could have seen someone who was qualified at that time to be acarya he would have mentioned. Because on the night before he passed away he talked of so many things, but never mentioned an acarya. His idea was acarya was not to be nominated amongst the governing body. He said openly you make a GBC and conduct the mission. So his idea was amongst the members of GBC who would come out successful and self effulgent acarya would be automatically selected. So Sridhara Maharaja and his two associate gentlemen unauthorizedly selected one acarya and later it proved a failure. THE RESULT IS NOW EVERYONE IS CLAIMING TO BE ACARYA EVEN THOUGH THEY MAY BE KANISTHA ADHIKARI WITH NO ABILITY TO PREACH. IN SOME OF THE CAMPS THE ACARYA IS BEING CHANGED THREE TIMES A YEAR. THEREFORE WE MAY NOT COMMIT THE SAME MISTAKE IN OUR ISKCON CAMP. ACTUALLY AMONGST MY GODBROTHERS NO ONE IS QUALIFIED TO BECOME ACARYA. SO IT IS BETTER NOT TO MIX WITH MY GODBROTHERS VERY INTIMATELY BECAUSE INSTEAD OF INSPIRING OUR STUDENTS AND DISCIPLES THEY MAY SOMETIMES POLLUTE THEM. This attempt was made previously by them, especially Madhava Maharaja and Tirtha Maharaja and Bon Maharaja but somehow or other I saved the situation. This is going on. We shall be very careful about them and not mix with them. This is my instruction to you all. They cannot help us in our movement, but they are very competent to harm our natural progress. So we must be very careful about them.
Note: the FAULTY CONCLUSIONS of Gaudiya math’s Sridhara Maharaja, Narayana Maharaja, Puri Maharaja etc. are PROVED here AS THEY REJECT LORD CAITANYA MAHAPRABHU’S OWN WORDS!
EVEN WHEN SRILA PRABHUPADA HAS QUOTED LORD CHAITANYA MAHAPRABHU HIMSELF THEY CAN NOT ACCEPT THIS CONCLUSION.
KRSNERA ‘NITYA-dasa’: “Every living entity is CONSTITUTIONALLY an ETERNAL SERVANT of Krsna.
The soul was formerly NITYA(ETERNALLY) serving Krsna KRSNERA ‘NITYA-dasa in lila(sport) with Krsna: but they OPPOSE Srila Prabhupada by stating BRAHMAJYOTI is the actual origin of the soul. This PROVES Srila Prabhupada is the REALIZED Mahabhagavata whereas Gaudiya math camp is based on MENTAL SPECULATIONS.
SB 4.29.36-37 P Talks Between Narada and King Pracinabarhi
Bhakti refers to those activities performed in the service of Lord Vasudeva. Because Lord Vasudeva is the Supreme, one should engage oneself in His service, not in the service of the demigods. Devotional service begins from the neophyte stage–the stage of observing the rules and regulations–and extends to the point of spontaneous loving service to the Lord. The purpose of all stages is to satisfy Lord Vasudeva. When one is perfectly advanced in the devotional service of Vasudeva, one becomes completely detached from the service of the body, that is, his designated position in material existence. After becoming so detached, one becomes actually perfect in knowledge and engages perfectly in the service of Lord Vasudeva. SRI CAITANYA MAHAPRABHU SAYS, JIVERA ‘SVARUPA’ HAYA–KRSNERA ‘NITYA-DASA’: “EVERY LIVING ENTITY IS BY CONSTITUTIONAL POSITION AN ETERNAL SERVANT OF KRSNA.” As soon as one engages in the service of Lord Vasudeva, he attains his normal constitutional position. This position is called the liberated stage. Muktir hitvanyatha-rupam svarupena vyavasthitih: in the liberated stage, one is situated in his original Krsna conscious position. He gives up all engagements in the service of matter, engagements concocted under the names of social service, national service, community service, dog service, automobile service and so many other services conducted under the illusion of “I” and mine
91-05-14 Letter to: Unknown Unknown Place Unknown Date
Crow And Tal-Fruit Logic
We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krsna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately we are covered by Maya. FORMERLY WE WERE WITH KRSNA IN HIS LILA OR SPORT. But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration, therefore many creations are coming and going. Due to this long period of time it is sometimes said that we are ever-conditioned. But his long duration of time becomes very insignificant when one actually comes to Krsna consciousness. Just like in a dream we are thinking very long time, but as soon as we awaken we look at our watch and see it has been a moment only. Just like with Krsna’s friends, they were kept asleep for one year by Brahma, but when they woke up and Krsna returned before them, they considered that only a moment had passed.
So this dreaming condition is called non-liberated life, and this is just like a dream. Although in this material calculation it is a long, long period, as soon as we come to Krsna consciousness then this period is considered as a second. For example, Jaya and Vijaya. They had their lila with Krsna, but they had to come down for their little mistake. They were given mukti, emerging into the Brahmasayujya after being killed three times as demons. This Brahmasayujya mukti is non-permanent. Every living entity wants pleasure, but Brahmasayujya is minus pleasure. There is eternal existence only. So when they do not find transcendental bliss, they fall down to make a compromise with material bliss. Just like Vivekananda founded so many schools and hospitals. So even Lord Brahma, he is still material and wants to lord it over. He may come down to become a germ, but then he may rise up to Krsna consciousness and go back to home, back to Godhead. This is the position.
So when I say Yes, there is eternal lila with Krsna, that means on the evidence of Jaya-Vijaya. Unless one develops full devotional service to Krsna, he goes up only up to Brahmasayujya but falls down. But after millions and millions of years of keeping oneself away from the lila of the Lord, when one comes to Krsna consciousness this period becomes insignificant, just like dreaming.
BECAUSE HE FALLS DOWN FROM BRAHMASAYUJYA, HE THINKS THAT MAY BE HIS ORIGIN, BUT HE DOES NOT REMEMBER THAT BEFORE THAT EVEN HE WAS WITH KRSNA.
Note: unlike the deviant (self made) “gurus” Srila Prabhupada is tattva darsinah. Srila Prabhupada has warned us against such opportunists.
760628bj.nv Conversations
Pusta Krsna: What about the so-called gurus that take a little bit here and a little bit there?
Prabhupada: So-called gurus, they are so-called gurus. They are not gurus. That is already explained. IF ONE DOES NOT SPEAK WHAT KRSNA SPEAKS, HE IS NOT GURU. If you accept so-called guru, that is your misfortune. What can be done?
Pusta Krsna: Some of them will say some things that Krsna says, but they’ll take from other places also. What is the position of such persons?
Prabhupada: HE’S MOST DANGEROUS. HE’S MOST DANGEROUS. HE IS OPPORTUNIST. HE’S FINDING OUT CUSTOMER, SOMETHING HERE… ACCORDING TO THE CUSTOMER HE IS GIVING SOMETHING, AS THE CUSTOMERS WILL BE PLEASED. SO HE IS NOT GURU. He’s a servant. He wants to serve the so-called disciples so that he may be satisfied and pay him something. He’s servant. He’s not guru. Guru is the master. You cannot disobey guru. BUT IF YOU BECOME A SERVANT, YOU WANT TO PLEASE THE DISCIPLE BY FLATTERING HIM TO GET HIS MONEY, THEN YOU ARE NOT GURU, YOU ARE SERVANT. Just like a servant pleases the master. He’s not guru. He’s servant. So our position should be servant, yes, but servant of the Supreme. So guru means heavy. You cannot utilize him for satisfying your whims. That is not guru.
Note: Srila Prabhupada is *THIS* Nitya siddha (TIME ETERNAL) Spiritual master described here in BG 4.42. BONA FIDE MEANS GENUINE just as gold is gold it does not change to Iron. Does not deviate at all(does not fall down) LORD KRISHNA MANIFESTS IN SRILA PRABHUPADA’S WORDS THIS IS WHY THERE IS NO POSSIBLITY OF DEVIATION. Please accept Srila Prabhupada and reject those who are jealous mundane people in the dress of Vaisnavas who are after personal aggrandizement and deviate others from the actual path.
Bg 4.42 P Transcendental Knowledge
A bona fide spiritual master is in the disciplic succession from TIME ETERNAL, and he DOES NOT DEVIATE AT ALL from the instructions of the Supreme Lord as they were imparted millions of years ago to the sun-god, from whom the instructions of Bhagavad-gita have come down to the earthly kingdom. One should, therefore, follow the path of Bhagavad-gita as it is expressed in the Gita itself AND BEWARE OF SELF-INTERESTED PEOPLE AFTER PERSONAL AGGRANDIZEMENT WHO DEVIATE OTHERS FROM THE ACTUAL PATH.
Madhya 1.218 The Later Pastimes of Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu
ENVY AND JEALOUSY ARE MANIFESTED BY MUNDANE PEOPLE, NOT BY VAISNAVAS. Why should a Vaisnava be envious of another Vaisnava who is successful in spreading the holy name of the Lord? An actual Vaisnava is very pleased to accept another Vaisnava who is bestowing the Lord’s mercy. A MUNDANE PERSON IN THE DRESS OF A VAISNAVA SHOULD NOT BE RESPECTED BUT REJECTED. This is enjoined in the sastra (upeksa). The word … or neglect those who are envious or jealous. THERE ARE MANY JEALOUS PEOPLE IN THE DRESS OF VAISNAVAS IN THIS KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS MOVEMENT, AND THEY SHOULD BE COMPLETELY NEGLECTED. THERE IS NO NEED TO SERVE A JEALOUS PERSON WHO IS IN THE DRESS OF A VAISNAVA. When Narottama dasa Thakura says chadiya vaisnava seva nistara payeche keba, he is indicating an ACTUAL VAISNAVA, NOT AN ENVIOUS OR JEALOUS PERSON IN THE DRESS OF A VAISNAVA.
Note: Srila Prabhupada is QUOTED AS AUTHORITY because Lord Krishna MANIFESTS IN HIS WORDS just like we quote the predecessor acaryas of our parampara like Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura. ALL SECTIONS OF THE SOCIETY QUOTE SRILA PRABHUPADA WHO *IS* THE PROMINENT ACARYA BECAUSE IT IS *HIS* LAW BOOKS THAT ARE ACCEPTED. Mundane “Vaisnavas” are NOT QUOTED AS AUTHORITY BECAUSE KRISHNA DOES NOT MANIFEST IN THEIR WORDS.
Note: Srila Prabhupada is THE CURRENT **PROMINENT ACARYA** AND WE FOLLOW HIM AS OUR BONAFIDE DIKSA GURU FOR ISKCON FOR AS LONG AS HIS BOOKS ARE ON THE PLANET.
68-04-12.Day Letter: Dayananda
Regarding parampara system: THERE IS NOTHING TO WONDER FOR BIG GAPS. Just like we belong to the Brahma Sampradaya, so we accept it from Krishna to Brahma, Brahma to Narada, Narada to Vyasadeva, Vyasadeva to Madhva, and between Vyasadeva and Madhva there is a big gap. But it is sometimes said that Vyasadeva is still living, and Madhva was fortunate enough to meet him directly. In a similar way, we find in the Bhagavad-gita that the Gita was taught to the sungod, some millions of years ago, but Krishna has mentioned only three names in this parampara system–namely, Vivasvan, Manu, and Iksvaku; and so these gaps do not hamper from understanding the parampara system. WE HAVE TO PICK UP THE PROMINENT ACARYAS, AND FOLLOW FROM HIM. There are many branches also from the parampara system, and it is not possible to record all the branches and sub-branches in the disciplic succession. We have to pick up from the authority of the acharya in whatever sampradaya we belong to.
On the 6th August Raja Gopala wrote;
@Mahesh Raja
“It appears to me, the way you write, with many capital letters and many, many extensive references you are a rather passionate person.”
Could Raja Gopal be making a funny analysis with his fantasies about Mahesh Raja “being passionate”.
Is this according to his crystal ball or just great long distance mystic capacities or …?
Srila Prabhupada said our ISKCON will be destroyed from within not without. Arrogant hypocrites with their lies and critical, deceitful natures publically represent ISKCON and thus expose the true nature of what the once great mission has become. There is nothing to be jolly about.
(Srimad Bhagavatam 1.17.24-25)
The last leg of Dharma, the sacred bull of religiosity, in this fallen age of Kali-yuga, is truthfulness, but the ISKCON GBC is not even truthful! They will not admit that Srila Prabhupada’s July 9, 1977 letter clearly prescribes “ritvik henceforward” for all future initiations within ISKCON. After thinking about it for several months, Prabhupada made this all-important management decision, not out of ego, but out of mercy. He did it in order to prevent the factionalization of ISKCON, which is exactly what has happened because of the GBC’s fateful decision, in early 1978, to ignore this directive.
But the GBC’s ignoring a directive from Srila Prabhupada is not unprecedented. They also ignored his directive to have the temple presidents vote devotees on and off of the GBC body (the DOM – Srila Prabhupada’s 1970 Direction of Management), but Prabhupada never condemned them for this.
But they are condemned for their forcing ISKCON, ever since the 1978 GBC meetings in Mayapur, India, to live a lie: claiming that the July 9th letter doesn’t mean what it clearly says: “ritvik henceforward.” For their own sake, and for the sake of Srila Prabhupada’s beloved ISKCON, we should at least get them to “come clean,” and admit that Hansadutta Prabhu is correct in his insightful letter of September 16, 1998:
http://pratyatosa.com/?P=3m
Ignoring the July 9th letter is par for the course for a bunch of overly-ambitious neophytes who became envious of Srila Prabhupada because of too much personal association. (“Familiarity breeds contempt.”) But, in my humble opinion, we should forgive them for this on condition that they at least admit that Hansadutta is correct in his original assessment of the July 9th letter.
Without truthfulness, there is no basis for harmony, understanding or cooperation!
(Mark Twain)
(Brian Tracy)
(Romano Guardini)
(Mike Aquilina)
(Pope Francis)
(Srimad Bhagavatam 8.20.4)
@Bhaktin Rose
Rather populistic writing. You write a lot about … just yourself and your fantasies.
Thank you, Mahesh Raja Prabhu for sharing comments from the point of view of the Sastras, the Sadhu and the Guru with regard to HDG. Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions.
However this Sadharan Jiva Raja Gopala dasa continues making his useless remarks when he writes in this forum
Raja Gopala dasa says:
17. August 2013 at 3:07 pm
@Pratyatosa dasa
You have to make right analysis regarding that statement. In that you fail, completely.
How in the world any body with the right mind can say something wrong without stating what and where is wrong ?????? When some one fails in stating what and where is wrong, it simply indicates that the person himself is a deviant. In this case, this Raja Gopala dasa a disciple of a liberated guru as stated by him in the present deviant Iskcon is a DEVIANT himself. Another words, the person does not practise what he preaches .
Therefore, this Raja Gopala dasa is not a serious and sincere to himself in cultivating KC as indicated in his remarks elsewhere on his post in this forum ; ” Actually I write in a jolly, devotional mood. Why would I be angry? There is no reason whatsoever for me to be angry. ”
May the blessings of Srila Prabhupada be upon him and his family.
Hari BOL.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Raja Gopal writes: “I only visit this site to try to get some discussion on vaisnava tattva”.
However it has not gone unnoticed that Raja Gopal has failed miserably to respond with any kind of philosohpical input to any of the comments I have made. He is, however, rather good at insulting and belittling others, but I don’t think that counts. The world is full of foolish people after all.
Yes folks Raja Gopal das, another wonderful ISKCON Ambassador ! I’m sure he will make a great GBC one day and the Ritvik camps are emptying out as we speak as thousands flock back to be with Raja and his superiors! He he.
Raja Gopal says; “one may rightly ask oneself; is this Madhu Pandit playing a smart but wicked game”. Well I guess the question could be, and has been raised by other devotees on this forum; is Raja Gopal playing a smart but wicked game. (Actually if he was smart he could probably answer with philosophy not insults, right?)
So we await more predictable Raja Gopal ‘put-downs’ and avoidance tactics. (Or maybe now he disappears?) Seems he’s got himself into a bit of a spot so I guess all there is left to do is insult others in a vain attempt to divert their attention away from his FAILURE TO PEPLY.
Just remember Raja Gopal, you chose to come here and open your mouth. Maybe in the future you will think twice as it appears even a fruit seller has brought you to the point where instead of fruit, all you have left to throw are mundane insults.
“I only visit this site to try to get some discussion on vaisnava tattva”. Quote- Raja Gopal das.
For all the ritvik naysayers; I gave precise sastric info on this forum, provided for by Srila Prabhupada and Lord Caitanya, on why Iskcon is organised and functioning as it is. You can perhaps look these up, I am not in the habit of repeating over and over again.
Ritvik people. the against people, offend great vaisnavas and therefore cannot come to any spiritual understanding. Paramatma will automatically block them of. Envy toward devotees of the Lord is not what He likes, as is stated in BG.
Ritviks very much prefer to remain in the realm of temporary alliances. Bad luck for you. But what to do, envy toward Sri Krishna is indeed a tough emotion.
Amar Puri says:
15. August 2013 at 6:03 pm
“ONLY A SINCERE AND SERIOUS FOLLOWER
OF SRILA PRABHUPADA CAN BRING THE NEW
BHAKTA TO THE CLOSEST TO SRILA PRABHUPADA
BECAUSE BOTH HAVE TO BE DEDICATED
SELFLESSLY IN THE SERVICE OF THE MISSION
OF HDG SRILA PRABHUPADA WORLD WIDE.
THEREFORE, SRILA PRABHUPADA ACCEPTS
SUCH SINCERE AND SERIOUS DEVOTEES
REGARDLESS OF THEIR APPOINTMENTS TO
PERFORM INITIATION ON HDG BEHALF.”
SG — Your reply is quite entertaining, Amar Puri. Did you get the above statement from
your Amar Puri book of puranas.
Also noticed that you use the word ‘follower’ and not ‘disciple’. What happened.
Are there some changes now to your ritvik beliefs.
Here are some statements about your ‘sincere and serious’ ritvik followers or leaders.
“Hare Krishna Society and its members. Better known as the ‘West Coast Rtviks’, this
group of ISKCON dissidents led by Yasoda Nandana dasa has become the face of
Ritvik-ism in North America.
The group was founded in California around 2002. Yasoda Nandana das, the founding
members of HKS include Puranjana das, Damaghosa dasa, Narasimha das and Sri Mukunda
dasa (¦michael sandoval).
Sri Mukunda dasa, who currently lives in Los Angeles, was “initiated” in a Ritvik ceremony
conducted by Ritvik priest, Yasoda nandana dasa, in Downey California, 2003. After a
decade of service as HKS’s Secretary, Sri Mukunda recently quit the organization in a
bitter dispute over the subject of HKS’s protection of Tattva Darshan.
Child Molesters in Srila Prabhupada’s Movement:
====================================
“My name is Sri Mukunda dasa and I first came in contact with Hare Krishna devotees
in 1992. Since then I have witnessed child molestations, beatings, and threats and
intimidation for speaking out against child molesters. I never served in any official
capacity within ISKCON although in my early days I did meet many nice Prabhupadanugas
at the LA Temple. I have never surrendered to anyone other than Srila Prabhupada
as my guru.
I met Yasodanandan Prabhu in Badger, CA through my good friend at the time,
the late Radha-Kunda das, Around 1993. In 1996, I took my first trip to Vrindavana,
India with Radha-Kunda dasa, Bir Laksman dasa and Krishna-Katha Mataji.
In 1996 there was an incident at the LA temple involving my daughter, that I will
not go into detail about. Afterwards, in 1997, my daughter Radharani and I
rented a house and lived in Vrindavana for two months.
In 2001, Yasodanandan das asked me to be the Secretary of the newly formed
Hare Krishna Society and assist with the publication of the “Srila Prabhupada
Siddhanta Book”, which I did. I served Yasoda and the HKS for ten years,
printing “Our Living Guru” t-shirts for HKS, and even traveling with
Yasodanandan to Vrindavana in 2004 to distribute the SPS book and Our
Living Guru t-shirts. In 2005 I returned to Vrindavana with more books and
T-shirts, and stayed there for 6 weeks.
I continued to serve the HKS as Secretary as recently as 2011. In October of 2011,
I found out that the Hare Krishna Society board members had traveled to India,
met with, stayed with, and were now promoting and backing Tattva Darshana dasa,
who was convicted in Cambodia of sex with underage children in 2008 and spent
one year in jail.
When I tried to investigate Tattva Darshana and BEV, and their connection with HKS,
I was met with arguments, lies and threats. When I discovered the truth about Tattva
and HKS I immediately resigned. I was told by HKS leaders to accept their lies for
Tattva, or I am an offender and a nutjob.
After resigning from HKS and my character being attacked by the HKS leaders,
I went public with exactly why I resigned. Yasodanandan then called in his “hit man”,
Puranjana, to discredit me on the Internet and silence me. Puranjana happily took up
the job, as this is what he does best — lie and smear innocent devotees in public.
Puranjana wasted no time in offending me, my daughter, and now my deceased wife,
on the orders of Yasodanandana. This is Yasodanandan’s style. He attacks his “enemies”
through his puppet Puranjana, so Yasoda can appear to be above all the dirty nonsense
Puranjana says. And Puranjana can at the same time appear to be separate from Yasoda,
but that is an illusion only.
After ten years with HKS, I know exactly how Yasoda operates with Puranjana. Yasoda
gets on the phone with Puranjana and tells him who to attack and what to say, then he sits
back and laughs while Puranjana goes to work. Then Yasoda can appear to be “saintly”
and “advanced.”
I heard Puranjana say, while he was speaking to another devotee on speaker phone:
“I cannot expose Tattva because he is helping with the poison issue.”
“Mar 7, PHNOM PENH, CAMBODIA (DPA) — The President
of a Hare Krishna-affiliated aid organisation has been
arrested from a guest house, allegedly in the company of
two young girls in a state of undress, an anti-trafficking
Police Chief said Thursday. US national Thomas Rapanos
Wayne, alias Tattva Darshan das, whose age was not given,
President of the non-government organisation Bhaktivedanta
Eco Village (BEV) Cambodia, was allegedly arrested in a
Phnom Penh guest house in the company of two girls aged
12 and 16. ”
“CHENNAI: Thomas Rapanos Wayne, alias Tattva Darshan
Das who runs a NGO in Karnataka was arrested Phnom Penh
for sexually abusing two girls aged 12 and 14.
The age of sexual consent in Cambodia is 15 years. “We
arrested Wayne and rescued the girls. The 12-year-old girl
is a Vietnamese and the other is Cambodian,” Keo They,
deputy police chief of the anti-trafficking and juvenile unit
said.
The Cambodian police said one of the girls was naked when
they stormed the guesthouse. The girls were being forced to
perform oral sex on Wayne, who was trying to put on a
condom when police broke open the door.Action Pour Les
Enfants , a French NGO working for child welfare, said it had
been tracking Wayne’s activities in Cambodia for the months
and had tipped off the Cambodian police.
His wife, a refugee from Myanmar, is named Judni Lakshmi
and manages the village along with Wayne and their children
Chaithanya (23) and Anuradha (21).
Wayne has been in trouble with the Indian authorities in the
past. By Chaithanya’s own admission, Wayne was detained
for questioning by the police seven years ago after a complaint
of child sex abuse from an Iskcon devotee.
“It was a baseless allegation for which my father was questioned
and nothing came of it,” Chaithanya said. However, Hari Sauri
Das, head of Iskcon’s Child Protection Team, said, “Wayne had
been removed from all official positions at Iskcon following
similar child abuse charges in 2002.”
This is the crux of Sri Mukunda recent falling out with HKS —
Yasoda nandana, Puranjana, Damaghosa and company are
defending a convicted sex offender because, as Puranjana
reportedly stated, Tattva Darshan das ‘is helping with the
poison issue’.
AP — BASED ON THE ABOVE MENTIONED
FACTS , SG ON THE CONTRARY, YOU HAVE
TO PROVE THAT WHY SRILA PRABHUPADA
WOULD NOT ACCEPT THE SERVICE PERFORMED
BY SUCH SINCERE AND SERIOUS FOLLOWERS
OF HDG SRILA PRABHUPADA??????????
THE POSITION OF THOSE RITVIK INITIATED
DEVOTEES IS VERY SAFE AND SUBLIME IN ORDER
TO ADVANCE IN KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS. IS IT NOT,
SG ??????????”
SG — If you say so, Amar Puri, if you say so.
Meantime, this is what Puranjana Dasa says :
Oct 30 2011, Sunnyvale CA (PADA) — First we’d like to thank Madhu Pandit dasa,
Chancalapati prabhu and many others from Bangalore, as well as many other
USA devotees, for making this temple possible with their support.
Nicely dressed brahmana men were chanting the Vedic mantras for intstalling
the deity (thanks to Yasodanandana prabhu for getting all the proper deity installation
process together), some devotees were later going to be initiated as Prabhupada
devotees, hey it was like ISKCON in the 1970s!
Another person came up to introduce me to their 9 year old daughter, they said –
see how all these kids are running around here? I cannot have my kid running around
at ISKCONtemples because I am afraid of molesters.
Wow, how bad is that?
The GBC has created and atmosphere where people are afraid for their kids,
and dissenters to their molester infrastructure have to be afraid of being
kicked out and or beaten up. The GBC keeps saying they cleaned it all up,
by keeping all the leaders of the molester infrastrure as their leaders?”
HARE KRSNA
There is no record of us placing Tattva Darsan in charge of the poison issue, nor did we say that on the phone to anyone? Nor would we put a person like him in charge of such an issue. Where did we say that, anywhere? This is simply an effort to discredit the poison issue. ys pd
SG — Your reply is quite entertaining, Amar Puri. Did you get the above statement from your Amar Puri book of puranas.
SG — If you say so, Amar Puri, if you say so.
The above cited two replies in his response to my questions put forth to SG indicate that SG is following the same foot steps of Raja Gopala dasa and his liberated guru to whom Raja Gopala dasa remains hesitant and afraid to disclose such deviant liberated guru in the present deviant Iskcon.
Why I say this is simply that these people not only refuse to accept the initiation instructions of HDG Srila Prabhupada but also reject it totally no matter how any body ( myself included ) bring out the TRUTH in accordance with the instructions of HDG Srila Prabhupada because it does not suit the agenda of the followers (devotees) such as SG and Raja Gopala dasa co. of the DEVIANT so called liberated gurus of all style and shape in the present Iskcon……… BAS…..
That is why these people are out here on the net to hide the TRUTH in every possible way, and mislead the massive innocent Jivas who are really desirous of following the real Instructions of HDG Srila Prabhupada. How misfortunate these people really are ………….??????????
AS LONG AS ONE HAS ANY SELFISH MOTIVE ONE CAN NOT ATTAIN THE FULL POTENCY OF THE HOLY NAME OF THE LORD.
Imagine, when some one (conditioned Jiva) under the pretense of amara ajnara guru as misleadingly promoted by Raja Gopala dasa and co accepts his own disciples in the Spiritual Institution of Iskcon, the person is doomed to fall down along with his disciples in the lowest planetary system of this Universe as warned by HDG Srila Prabhupada..
May the blessings of HDG Srila Prabhupada be upon us ALL.
OM TAT SAT
Hari BOL
@Raja Gopala Dasa: ………I gave precise sastric info on this forum on why Iskcon’s epidemic as good as God acarya falldown is well organised and functioning better than before…..
This is kind of an intoxicated rascal mumbling in the drunk tank? Who invited this troll to teach that suffering humanity requires more fallen acaryas?
Prabhupada: He’s intoxicated. Similarly all these rascals, intoxicated rascals, if you say: “Here is God,” they cannot understand. Because intoxicated. Therefore Kunti says: tvam akincana-gocaram. So it is a good qualification, when one becomes freed from these intoxicants. (Los Angeles, April 18, 1973)
BTW – Mahanidhi’s (Swami?) press release says that GBC is spreading lies. He wasn’t in bed with a female disciple and although leaving ISKCON for good he is the best sannyasi on this planet and a pure parampara mahabhagavat uttama acarya. I’m appalled!
Hopefully Mahanidhi is not envious towards other ISKCON leaders in good standing? According Raja Gopala (see above) such enviousness would cause Lord Paramatma to block him off, doom him to remain in the realm of temporary alliances, and last but not least, let him rot in hell for millions of years.
Re-instated or excommunicated? We probably have to wait for GBC’s well organised hands up voting procedure?
@Prabhavishnu Das
Very low class, I didn’t make that statement. Is this kind of behaviour characteristic for you, and perhaps also for your funny temporary alliance?
@Amar Puri
The amara ajnara guru is promoted by Srila Prabhupada and Lord Caitanya so why do you state that it is my invention? Don’t you follow Srila Prabhupada? Why not?
Dear Raja Gopal, I don’t think people on this forum are laughing at you or saying you’re acting like a clown simply because you quote scripture. Rather perhaps it’s in response to the rude way you chose to insult others all the time? Raja Gopal, the jolly, un-agitated vaisnava,… Hmmm?
Anyway for me personally I DO NOT ACCEPT that everything you say is backed up by “precise sastric info”.
You publically stated that the problem with the Ritviks is they don’t understand the importance of siksa. I challenged this premise with what I had actually witnessed, (logic and observation) while offering you my obeisance’s and respects. But instead of enlightening us all with “precise sastric info” to back your bold claim you instead immediately launched into a personal character attack and to date HAVE NOT offered any “precise sastric info” on the matter,… simply more insults.
So either you backup your brave statement with “precise sastric info” or I must conclude that you are under the dictates of your mind and that’s where this speculative notion sprang from?
I don’t believe anyone on this forum disagrees with Vedic knowledge or “precise sastric info”, it’s just maybe there is some suspicion that your mind is really the supreme authority at play here?
I’ll be waiting over here by my fruit cart for your precise, sastricly informed reply, (btw feel free to insult me in a separate post, but try to stick to the precise point here eh).
JFS
@Just-a-fruit-seller
Because you apparently can’t/don’t read properly next the specific sastric info.
Both Srila Prabhuapda and Lord Caitanya have accepted and promoted the amara ajnara guru in sastra. Not very difficult to find out btw if you have a CC. You can just read it …
Of course everything becomes very difficult when you sentimentally worship a bona fide guru as some “ONLY HE” popular hero and like to be offensive toward other great vaisnavas.
Envy is indeed a tough emotion. And not being able to understand vaisnava philosophy a lack of buddhi. Bad luck for the ritviks, despite our obvious disciplinary problems with quite a few of the amara ajnara guru’s. Serious devotees, however, solve problems in bhakti, not in envy, anger and childishness.
@Just-a-fruit-seller
btw, Ritviks can’t give any siksa, instruction for spiritual enlightenment, since they don’t even understand sastra. What to speak of realising it …
I know a few, spoke with them in person. They truly don’t understand anything. Ritviks are just les intelligent impersonalists.
Yes, in the purport of the amara ajaya guru hana verse it says, its best not to initiate disciples. In other words, we need to be the siksa gurus because we cannot give pure divyam jnanam (di) and absorb sisns like Jesus (ksha). ys pd
@Puranajan das
Diksa is “only” into the formal disciplic succession, siksa is for actual spiritual elevation. Besides, Srila Prabhupada doesn’t state amara ajnara guru’s cannot initiate into the disciplic succesion. “Better not” doesn’t say “cannot”.
Ritviks fail to understand the disciplic succession with Lord Brahma being next in line to Sri Krshna. Lord Brahma, a temporary and formal position, is the first born and the last one to die …
Taking sin is not too difficult because sin means ignorance/illusion. Srila Prabhupada of course many times preached on the kanistha adhikari platform.
btw What has got Jesus got to do with this?
I don’t have any difficulty admitting Iskcon has got a serious managerial problem with all these amara ajnara guru’s that are exposed through time not be on the highest platform but actually conditioned in every respect. But definitely not all Iskcon guru’s, and that’s one reason why ritviks commit huge offences. Apart from that, Srila Prabhupada gave big, big instructions. He gave shoes too big, as he himself has put it.
As Puranjana Prabhu points out, the verse you quote is open to interpretation/manipulation. Come on Prabhu surely you have some really convincing sastric evidence seeing as you’re so utterly convinced.
But of course you have met a couple of Ritviks and that is what you base your conclusions on? Just imagine if someone had met Bhavananda, Prabhavisnu and Kirtananda and then based that association on what the whole ISKCON movement was all about,… what you were all about? Not so funny huh.
From my personal observation I see they (the Ritvik people) are distributing Prabhupada’s books and prasadam and doing regular public Hari nama, (all of which the local ISKCON temple stopped doing a long time ago btw) they chant 16 rounds, study the Founder Acarays books, maintain nice Deity worship, et al.
So exactly where did Srila Prabhupada say devotees had to stop taking shelter of him? Sastric answer please?
And who are you or anyone – including the GBC – to say who His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada can or can’t give his love, shelter and guidance to? Isn’t that Prabhupada’s choice? (Oh that’s right, you think he’s dead and gone don’t you).
So you keep presenting these nice Vaisnavas as demons but I just don’t see it that way, and to date ISKCON has failed – in my opinion – to offer anything from guru, saddhu or sastra that comes even close to changing my mind.
I read your harsh words and understand that you really hate them, but that is perhaps more about you than them, and nothing to do with any holy scripture?
Anyway I see you have a closed-mind policy on the issue so I wish you all the best in your devotion journey, and hope some day all the Vaisnavas can chant together no matter what individual choices they may have made.
Raja Gopala dasa says: I don’t have any difficulty admitting Iskcon has got a serious managerial problem with all these amara ajnara guru’s that are exposed through time not be on the highest platform but actually conditioned in every respect. But definitely not all Iskcon guru’s…
That’s the same sort if thing that my wife told me on the phone a few years ago, that some of the ISKCON “gurus” are actually spiritually advanced. My immediate reply was, “Then they should do it (their guru business) outside of ISKCON. Otherwise it causes division (factionalization).”
The ISKCON “gurus” who haven’t fallen down yet, or haven’t been caught falling down yet, are in such illusion that they actually think that, when one of their cohorts falls down, it elevates them in some way. No! It doesn’t elevate them in the least! It simply provides even more evidence that they belong to a pathetically laughable loser’s club of pretender gurus!
Raja Gopala dasa says:
18. August 2013 at 9:57 pm
@Amar Puri
The amara ajnara guru is promoted by Srila Prabhupada and Lord Caitanya so why do you state that it is my invention? Don’t you follow Srila Prabhupada? Why not?
Do you read and understand my comments, Raja Gopala dasa before you reply to it ????????????
NO, you do not . Because your reply does not address to my comments. That is why you keep on writing as such which is a waste of time and energy to repeat it every time.
You and your guru’s invention is accepting own disciples in the Spiritual Organization Iskcon in which Srila Prabhupada has not authorized any one of His disciples to be His SUCCESSOR. …. BAS…….
Do you get it, Raja Gopala dasa ????????
NO. You never get it because you continue misleading the readers by quoting your ignorant concocted remarks as such ; ” Besides, Srila Prabhupada doesn’t state amara ajnara guru’s cannot initiate into the disciplic succesion. “Better not” doesn’t say “cannot”.
it shows how ignorant you are because you keep on ignoring the instructions where Srila Prabhupada warns ; ” It is better not to accept your own disciples. Besides that warning Srila Prabhupada did not authorize any one of his disciples to be His SUCCESSORS in His Iskcon Organization….. BAS.
Where is such written Authorization from HDG. Srila Prabhupada ???????????
So where is that possibility of even having an assumption of ” can not accept own disciples ” as ignorantly Raja Gopala introduces his own ideas on behalf of his deviant self made guru whom Raja Gopala remains hesitant to disclose such a liberated deviant guru in the present Iskcon as Raja Gopala protects and promotes his deviant liberated guru in the present Iskcon. ????????
Where is the room for CAN NOT accept disciples as invented by Raja Gopal who is trying to mislead the readers with his ignorant ???????
I hope that Raja Gopala dasa consults with his deviant liberated guru to find the right answer to my questions put forth here before he writes in this forum again in order to avoid wasting time of the readers.
Hari BOL.
OM TAT SAT.
Raja Gopal wrote: “Fruit-seller, you make a funny analysis with your fantasies about me “being angry”. According to your crystal ball or just great long distance mystic capacities or …? Just a suggestion; perhaps you better focus on fruit selling than trying to analyse a person’s pschye.”
But he also wrote: “Fortunately there are liberated acharyas within Iskcon”.
Now let me get this straight. Raja Gopal is claiming to know the psyche, hearts and spiritual advancement of others? Well this truly is a mystic power, and one that scripture tells us only God or the most advanced jiva souls possess. I’m impressed.
Finally a self-effulgent soul has stepped forward, what a relief. With this kind of power Raja Gopal could be the Superman of ISKCON, flying from temple to temple to save us (who lack this incredible mystic power) from being cheated by anymore pretend acaryas, (43 and counting).
So please Raja save us all and just tell us who are these LIBERATED ACAYAS you speak of???
And more importantly, WHO IS NEXT TO FALL!!! At least warn the disciples,… I thought you were an ISKCON man after all?
I mean to say even Bhakti Vikas Swami expressed utter surprise when the great liberated acarya Paul Barrows was exposed as a fallen fraud, (but you must have known that long before it happened right?)
So it seems you alone have been given this incredible gift to share with the world, so please gives us the names of these so called LIBERATED ACARYAS,.. (oh and some actual sastric proof so we know that you’re not just talking a load of BS).
Raja Gopala dasa, please pass the following message to your liberated deviant guru in Iskcon what Srila Prabhupada says ;
” “Yes. My Guru Maharaja passed in 1936, and I started this movement in 1965, thirty years after. Then? I am getting the mercy of guru. This is vani. Even the guru is not physically present, if you follow the vani, then you are getting help.”
(Morning Walk — July 21, 1975, San Francisco)
Raja Gopala you do not need a living guru. As long as you follow the Vani of Srila Prabhupada even He is not physically present, if you follow the Vani then you are getting help from the Spiritual Master as Srila Prabhupada said.
That is all you need, Pure VANI of Srila Prabhupada to make your life sublime in cultivating Krishna Consciousness.
Hope you get it.
Hari BOL.
Srila Prabhupada told us not to allow the citizens of India to touch our feet, especially because many of the elderly ladies would come up and try to touch our feet at our “Pandal” festivals. He warned, if we allowed other folks to touch our feet, we would be acting as gurus, and we would be absorbing their sins just like the guru absorbs the sins of his disciples, and this will be VERY DANGEROUS for us.
He said, as a result of us taking these sins, we will be very much prone to become VERY SICK or FALL DOWN from spiritual life or BOTH (get sick and fall down).
He also told Bahudak basically the same thing, do not give chanting beads away, you will have to sell them, because “giving beads” is what the guru does. And so, if you give the beads away yourself, you will be accepting karma and you can get VERY SICK and FALL DOWN from spiritual life.
Srila Prabhupada also said that Jesus is still taking the sins of his followers. Now Raja Gopal says taking sins like Jesus is not too difficult, because he thinks being Jesus is an easy job, like being a butler in a hotel?
In case no one has noticed what has happened in the past 35 years, the GBC gurus are WORLDWIDE media famous for having an EPIDEMIC since 1977 of GETTING SICK and FALLING DOWN from spiritual life. And some of them have even been admitting themselves, their problems are because they have TAKEN TOO MANY SINS without authority.
Neophytes are ordered NOT to act as diksha gurus, because all we have to do is look at the past 35 years, starting with Jayatirtha’s fall downs in 1979. And ever since then, so many of them have been getting very sick and falling down, in fact we cannot even count them all, — all the way up to the present time with the failures of Prabhavishnu, and Mahanidhi.
These people are not qualified to absorb the sins of others because they cannot even clear up their own sins, thus they are getting sick, if not falling away. Where does Srila Prabhupada say we neophytes are equal to Jesus? And where does he authorize neophytes to act as another Jesus? And how come we never get this question answered, where are the neophytes authorized to act as diksha gurus, and absorb sins etc. — with quotes from Srila Prabhupada? And why haven’t some people noticed by now that Srila Prabhupada is right, taking sins without authority causes people to get sick, or fall down, or both? ys pd
@Amar Puri
????? Here and there, throwing capital letters and all kinds of funny attempts to order, instruct, demand.
What kind of nature do you have?
@Puranajana dasa
Srila Prabhupada quite often preached on the kanistha adhikari platform. Apart from that, he always preached according to time, place and circumstance.
Of essence, also on this forum discussion, is in what state of consciousness everything is executed.
Perhaps we all make wonderful advancement or just relish, that’s up to Sri Visnu. My bhakti toward guru and Gauranga is at least not diminishing.
@Puranjana das
btw, Srila Prabhupada, a descendant of a vaisnava family, turned into a karmi being enchanted by Gandhi, was a grhasta who wasn’t able to deliver his children. He also had serious health problems for a least a few decades. Further, he lowered by 75%! the standard of chanting 64 rounds, set by his guru maharaja. He also sniffed tobacco on a daily basis and sent money to his former wife when he already had taken sannyasa.
Do I consider him therefore fallen? Of course not, he is one of the great vaisnava acharyas. And I am one of his dedicated grand disciples.
Taking sin (illusion, ignorance) is no problem when you are liberated. When you are just an amara ajnara guru it is indeed most risky, that I fully agree on. And again, I have no problem in agreeing on the verdict that Iskcon/GBC has a serious devotional service and PR problem with their amara ajnara guru’s.
Luckily, pure bhakti is hidden in the heart of the pure vaisnava. All generalisations, inductions and deductions of impure bhakta’s serve just one purpose: purification of the own troubled, obstinate mind.
Amar Puri Prabhu:
” “Yes. My Guru Maharaja passed in 1936, and I started this movement in 1965, thirty years after. Then? I am getting the mercy of guru. This is vani. Even the guru is not physically present, if you follow the vani, then you are getting help.”
(Morning Walk — July 21, 1975, San Francisco)
Raja Gopala you do not need a living guru. As long as you follow the Vani of Srila Prabhupada even He is not physically present, if you follow the Vani then you are getting help from the Spiritual Master as Srila Prabhupada said.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Mahesh: Raja Gopala das does NOT want Srila Prabhupada he wants his CONDITIONED SOUL guru who IS -ONLY- ABLE TO GIVE HIM *FORMALITY INITIATION* —Bas!
Conversations : 1976 Conversations : October, 1976 : Press Interview — October 16, 1976, Chandigarh : 761016iv.cha :
Prabhupāda: Well, initiation or no initiation, first thing is knowledge. [break] …knowledge. Initiation is formality. Just like you go to a school for knowledge, and admission is formality. That is not very important thing.
Just see! he worships some conditioned soul ONLY FOR FORMALITY INITIATION —SOOOOOO ignorant.
HOWEVER—– OUR BONAFIDE DIKSA GURU SRILA PRABHUPADA gave US PRABHUPADANUGAS THE RITVIK SYSTEM FOR THE PURPOSE OF FORMALITY INITIATION AND HE IS FULLY CAPABLE TO GIVE US THIS DIKSA :TRANSFER KRSNA INTO OUR HEART SO WE CAN UNDERSTAND OUR SVARUPA(constitutional position) THIS DIKSA IS SRILA PRABHUPADA’S POWER:
SB 10.2.18
As indicated here by the word manastaḥ, the Supreme Personality of Godhead was transferred from the core of Vasudeva’s mind or heart to the core of the heart of Devakī. We should note carefully that the Lord was transferred to Devakī not by the ordinary way for a human being, but by dīkṣā, initiation. Thus the importance of initiation is mentioned here. Unless one is initiated by the right person, who always carries within his heart the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one cannot acquire the power to carry the Supreme Godhead within the core of one’s own heart.
Raja Gopala dasa:
Srila Prabhupada, a descendant of a vaisnava family, turned into a karmi being enchanted by Gandhi, was a grhasta who wasn’t able to deliver his children. He also had serious health problems for a least a few decades. Further, he lowered by 75%! the standard of chanting 64 rounds, set by his guru maharaja. He also sniffed tobacco on a daily basis and sent money to his former wife when he already had taken sannyasa.
Mahesh: Srila Prabhupada played like an ordinary man so that idiots like you will be fooled to see him as ordinary man –and remain a fool for life. Even Krsna plays a pastime so that demons are bewildered.
Bg 7.25
TEXT 25
nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya
yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ
mūḍho ‘yaṁ nābhijānāti
loko mām ajam avyayam
SYNONYMS
na—nor; aham—I; prakāśaḥ—manifest; sarvasya—to everyone; yoga-māyā—internal potency; samāvṛtaḥ—covered; mūḍhaḥ—foolish; ayam—this; na—not; abhijānāti—can understand; lokaḥ—such less intelligent persons; mām—Me; ajam—unborn; avyayam—inexhaustible.
TRANSLATION
I am never manifest to the foolish and unintelligent. For them I am covered by My eternal creative potency [yoga-māyā]; and so the deluded world knows Me not, who am unborn and infallible.
PURPORT
It may be argued that since Kṛṣṇa was present on this earth and was visible to everyone, then why isn’t He manifest to everyone now? But actually He was not manifest to everyone. When Kṛṣṇa was present there were only a few people who could understand Him to be the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In the assembly of Kurus, when Śiśupāla spoke against Kṛṣṇa being elected president of the assembly, Bhīṣma supported Him and proclaimed Him to be the Supreme God. Similarly, the Pāṇḍavas and a few others knew that He was the Supreme, but not everyone. He was not revealed to the nondevotees and the common man. Therefore in the Gītā Kṛṣṇa says that but for His pure devotees, all men consider Him to be like themselves. He was manifest only to His devotees as the reservoir of all pleasure. But to others, to unintelligent nondevotees, He was covered by His eternal potency.
@Puranaja das
Srila Prabhupada was also willing to serve dead cow to people if they were just willing to chant Hare Krsna. He also knew that many of his sannyas disciples would fall from the regulative standards, still he gave these young, inexperienced and very passionate Americans this vulnerable formal mode of goodness position.
So, if you like to find fault perhaps do it all the way. Oh wait, I just touched your “popstar worship emotion”?
I would suggest, better be intelligent and try to understand vaisnava tattva. Beg Sri Visnu for his mercy if you just don’t have the buddhi. Or be sensitive to eg 10.10 BG because the Supreme Personality of Godhead has great appreciation for devotional service.
Raja Gopala dasa:
Srila Prabhupada, a descendant of a vaisnava family, turned into a karmi being enchanted by Gandhi, was a grhasta who wasn’t able to deliver his children. He also had serious health problems for a least a few decades. Further, he lowered by 75%! the standard of chanting 64 rounds, set by his guru maharaja. He also sniffed tobacco on a daily basis and sent money to his former wife when he already had taken sannyasa.
Mahesh: Dont try and justify OR EQUATE your CONDITIONED soul guru with the MAHABHAGAVATA Srila Prabhupada. tejiyasam na dosaya: one who is very powerful should be understood to be faultless:
SB 6.17.10 P Mother Parvati Curses Citraketu
Although Citraketu never meant to insult Lord Siva, he should not have criticized the lord, even though the lord was transgressing social customs. It is said, tejiyasam na dosaya: one who is very powerful should be understood to be faultless. For example, one should not find faults with the sun, although it evaporates urine from the street. The most powerful cannot be criticized by an ordinary man, or even by a great personality. Citraketu should have known that Lord Siva, although sitting in that way, was not to be criticized. The difficulty was that Citraketu, having become a great devotee of Lord Visnu, Sankarsana, was somewhat proud at having achieved Lord Sankarsana’s favor and therefore thought that he could now criticize anyone, even Lord Siva. This kind of pride in a devotee is never tolerated. A Vaisnava should always remain very humble and meek and offer respect to others.
670102CC.NY Lectures
So this was questioned by Maharaja Pariksit to Sukadeva Gosvami, and Sukadeva Gosvami replied in many ways, but the summary is that “How this can be impure?” That is, “By chanting Krsna’s name, one becomes pure, how dancing with Krsna can be impure?” And he gave that example, tejiyasam na dosayet. One who is powerful, to…, for him there is no question of contamination. Just like the sun. He gave the example, the sun. Sun is so powerful that sunshine is touching all contaminated place, but sun is not contaminated. Rather, by the sunshine it is sterilized. Contaminated place becomes sterilized. As a crude example in the material world.
@Mahesh Raja
Derived from your comment: “A Vaisnava should always remain very humble and meek and offer respect to others.”
It just so happens that ritviks are in the habit of fault finding and offending. Your whole culture is based on it. Srila Prabhupada can do what he likes but no on else can, according to you. This is called fanatism.
@Mahesh Raja
Srila Prabhupada played like an ordinary man so that idiots like you will be fooled to see him as ordinary man –and remain a fool for life.
I don’t see Srila Prabhupada as an ordinary man. You can’t read or what?
It has become very, very clear to me. Ritviks have a popstar worship mentality, like many of the so-called Christians. Basically you are just impersonalists because of envy/clouded senses.
The GBC says that acharyas are falling into illicit sex with men, women and children, we do not agree with that, so we are fanatics? Apart from that notice that Raja Gopal has never mentioned what guru lineage, and what current guru of that lineage, that he does follow? He simply say our idea is wrong, but he never tells us what specific lineage and guru he does follows? He has no apparent guru lineage or solution. Saying others are wrong does not make one right. ys pd
@Puranjana das: …he never tells us what specific lineage and guru he does follows?
Lineage Raja Gopal follows is that a tattva-darsinah – one who actually sees the truth (Prabhupada: “Tattva-darsinah. Darsinah means who has actually seen.”) – might leave the position of diksha-guru with girl-friend (female disciple) and trunk of temple laxmi at any moment.
First thing his “guru” taught him is that Prabhupada used to take ground tobacco as snuff on a daily basis.
What his “guru” doesn’t know is that this “snuff” wasn’t tobacco but a grinded herb from the Vilca tree that is used medicinally to treat upper respiratory tract infection and cough.
In sum this is interesting. There are rascals sitting now on the vyasasana who captured Prabhupada’s buildings and who teach that Prabhupada was addicted to nicotine (“He also sniffed tobacco on a daily basis”).
Then these folks come here and proclaim that ritviks have no sastric knowledge.
What comes next?
@Puranjana das
The GBC is only a managerial entity which definitely has made and probably will make make mistakes. Factually it is a highly impersonal body, given its very nature. Practically important for formal vaisnava ksatriya managerial activity.
Individually GBC members can be conditioned, developed, highly developed or even liberated. However, as a group there is always an impersonal result.
“GBC” is not a person. But this is probabaly already too difficult for you to understand.
You’re fanatics because you worship Srila Prabhupada as if he is some mundane popstar. You don’t know sastra and you love to insult and offend. I know a few ritviks personally and they surely fit this bill, like they ritvik commenters here on this forum.
Indeed, envy is a tough emotion. Without individual, personal instruction and executing it you can simply forget spiritual advancement.
You’re just impersonalists, a consequence of your ignorance. You don’t even know what is matter and what is spirit. You’re just mundaners and “against” people, that’s all.
And I already told you that I don’t mention my guru’s name since you definitely will start to insult and offend because that’s the only thing you know. One of the qualities of my gy guru is definitely that he is a most faithful disciple of Srila Prabhupada.
Apart from anything else, there are no “guru’s” and “disciples” in the spiritual world. Like Srila Prabhupada said, it’s all just for fun. But also this you don’t understand because you are filled with being “against” and just after mundane goals.
The BG 3.9 purport, among so many other purports important int his context, you simply fail to understand. Indeed, always tragical and most unhandy, a popstar worship mentalitiy.
Definitely my service mood for my guru and Srial Prabhupada has only increased visiting this forum. Ritviks are a great secondary inspiration for propagating spiritual, Krsna concious life, like drug dealers, sex mongers, meat eaters and speculators are.
Though I am definitely not into the ritvik diksha theory, still I have to humbly admit that the admiration and eulogy of the highest status of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada, who is the current acarya of ISKCON is a very potent and for the time being the only so widely spread medicine for curing the countless aparadhas and gross misconceptions commited against His Divine Grace by the different bands, like editors or fake IsKcon gurus with their followers. It seems that your role dear devotees from all ritvik vada camps may be maybe similar like that of the sikhs who in their service for the Lord saved so many Krishna deities from the Moguls assault.
Please accept my gratitude for that, and also my most humble appologies for the countless offences against you, dear prabhus and matajis.
y.s. bj
Raja Gopala dasa says:
20. August 2013 at 7:15 pm
@Mahesh Raja
Derived from your comment: “A Vaisnava should always remain very humble and meek and offer respect to others.”
It just so happens that ritviks are in the habit of fault finding and offending. Your whole culture is based on it. Srila Prabhupada can do what he likes but no on else can, according to you. This is called fanatism.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Mahesh: You come on this Prabhupadanuga site with the intention of wanting to REPLACE Srila Prabhupada as the CURRENT DIKSA GURU OF ISKCON with your BOGUS GBC VOTED CLOWNS for Diksa gurus then you have the audicity to FAULT FIND with Srila Prabhupada : NO! WE WILL NOT BE HUMBLE. And YES! Srila Prabhupada CAN do as HE LIKES: Srila Prabhupada is THE REPRESENTATIVE OF LORD KRISHNA. This is WHY we pray NAMO OM **VISNU** PADAYA. **KRISHNA** PRESTHAYA. Your bogus GBC CONDITIONED SOUL VOTED IN “GURU” CLOWNS ARE NOT REPRESENTATIVES OF KRISHNA. THEY ARE MONEY SCREWING CROOKS AND JUST WANT TO MAKE SLAVES OUT OF INNOCENTS.
Adi 7.50 Lord Caitanya in Five Features
PURPORT
One of the most important instructions by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu regarding regular Vaisnava behavior is that a Vaisnava should be tolerant like a tree and submissive like grass.
trnad api sunicena
taror iva sahisnuna
amanina manadena
kirtaniyah sada harih
“One should chant the holy name of the Lord in a humble state of mind, thinking oneself lower than the straw in the street; one should be more tolerant than a tree, devoid of all sense of false prestige and should be ready to offer all respect to others. In such a state of mind one can chant the holy name of the Lord constantly.” Nevertheless, the author of these instructions, Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu, did not tolerate the misbehavior of Jagai and Madhai. When they harmed Lord Nityananda Prabhu, He immediately became angry and wanted to kill them, and it was only by the mercy of Lord Nityananda Prabhu that they were saved. One should be very meek and humble in his personal transactions, and if insulted a Vaisnava should be tolerant and not angry. But if there is blasphemy against one’s guru or another Vaisnava, one should be as angry as fire. This was exhibited by Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu
750713r2.phi Conversations
Devotee: Srila Prabhupada, how does one become humble and remain humble?
Jayatirtha: How to become humble and remain humble. Same question one devotee asked you in Chicago.
Prabhupada: So you explain.
Jayatirtha: He said you can become humble by becoming aggressive for Krsna. (laughter) One girl was asking that “When we are doing sankirtana, I must be very aggressive, but when I come to the temple, then I’m supposed to be very humble.” Prabhupada’s answer was…
Prabhupada: “A lamb at home, a lion in the chase.” (laughter) When you are chasing, you must be a lion. (laughter) But when you come home, you do not try to chase the devotees. (laughter)
Your analytical qualities are not very developed. I agree with you on the fact that Srila Prabhupada can do as he likes, of course. But I don not agree on the fantasy that only he is in that position. That doesn’t say that anyone with tilak on his body and a bead bag in his hand can do as he likes, of course.
btw Humility is explained by Srila Prabhupada in the BG 13.8 as “not be anxious to have the satisfaction of being honored by others”.
Ritviks, because of their ignorance and mundane views, are always in the anxiety of being honored by others.
Just come to understand the position of guru and disciple. Shouting and becoming angry anyone can. Misusing sastra is always a possibility also.
Less intelligent people need stories, because they can’t understand anything else. That’s why there are the stories of Lord Krsna and Lord Caitanya. And the story of the disciplic succession, with Lord Brahma, a most powerful … illusory person, next to Lord Krsna. And you know why there is such a big gap after Vyasadeva and Madhva acharya in the disciplic succession? No? Just visit the Himalyas. If you’re able to find them …
This all is most probably far too difficult for you to understand. When you become humble, apart from developing other nice qualities, Lord Krsna will perhaps give you some buddhi. For your rememberance, buddhi-yoga and bhakti-yoga are synonymous.
@Rukmini Ramana dd
I don’t mind Srila Prabhupada sniffed tobacco. It was used as an ayurvedic medicine by HDG. Sometimes there is alcohol in an ayurvedic medicine. What’s the problem when you have to use it for health reasons in devotional service?
I just want to point out that it’s very easy to find fault if you like to do that. And ritviks very much like to find fault and generalise. Because they don’t understand anything but “popstar worship”.
btw, I didn’t get this info from my guru. Disciples are encouraged to think for themselves when you have a bona fide, loving guru. Being blind is not an eternal position, if you like to get rid of the particular state, of course.
The 2.15 pm comment is for Mahesh Raja
OK so the GBC says that gurus are engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children. And Raja Gopal admits that is a mistake, but then he says he cannot tell us who his guru is, most likely because his guru is in the line that says acharyas are — most of the time — engaged in illicit sex and debauchees behaviors. So fine, we should worship a pure person and not the people who make these kinds of mistakes. And we should avoid those who support these “gurus are often debauchee’s” lineages. Agreed. That is what we are doing already. Raja Gopal cannot admit who his guru is, because his guru is a supporter of the debauchee guru lineage. Why else? ys pd
@Puranjana das
I can tell you but I won’t tell you because of your offensive, insulting nature, I already wrote twice, can’t you read? Srila Prabhupada is my grand guru, that I also mentioned already. Further, you fail to understand that the GBC is a an impersonal body because of its very nature. It is only a managerial commission, nothing more, nothing less.
First come to understand Lord Brahma, the second one our disciplic succession. He is just an illusory person, that’s a fact. People with a popstar worship mentality don’t even understand that. Ritviks lack buddhi. Again and again you give evidence of this.
Just remain very attached to the stories of Lord Krsna and Lord Caitanya, they are very purifying for people of less intelligence.
When I mention that within the body of Iskcon and the GBC body of course there are all kinds of problems, deficiencies there is no reaction to that apart from cynicism. You again and again give evidence you don’t have buddhi and therfeore also no vaisnava mentality and behaviour. Ritviks are like fanatical fake Christiians and crazy Salafists. Their main characteristic: blind impersonalism.
Srila Prabhupada denouces religious moralists like you very much in CC, together with worldy sex mongers.
btw Who gives ritviks their “spiritual” name? Just curious, since Srila Prabhupada is in Goloka Vrndavana.
@Raja Gopala Dasa: “I can tell you but I won’t tell you because of your offensive, insulting nature”
To ask who is your spiritual authority – guru – upon whom your line of argument is build upon is rather a legitimate question. Especially when it comes to discuss what is genuine guru-tattva of Brahma-Madhva-Gaudiya sampradaya.
Your move to avoid an answer by arguing that it is because this forum is of “offensive, insulting nature”, says, that you shouldn’t post here at all.
So far all of your post are more or less a punch below the belt, stating that those who consider Prabhupada as their guru are for you personna non grata.
Whereas those who took initiation from Harikes, Prabhavishnu, Umapati, and forty other fallen ISKCON gurus, are bona fide and doing fine.
Suggestion is you better check out those forums where you find people of your ilk and post there? Why waste time? You made your decision already! Try to get more conversant with sastra, especially what is genuine guru-tattva.
Yours Sincerely
Prabhupadanugas.eu
@Bh. Michael
“To ask who is your spiritual authority — guru — upon whom your line of argument is build upon is rather a legitimate question. Especially when it comes to discuss what is genuine guru-tattva of Brahma-Madhva-Gaudiya sampradaya.”
It’s certainly is a legitimate question the only thing is the ritvik follow up. Ritviks like to insult and offend, it seems to be their nature. So I already mentioned that Srila Prabhupada is my grand guru. That should be sufficient, is it not, according to you?
“Your move to avoid an answer by arguing that it is because this forum is of “offensive, insulting nature”, says, that you shouldn’t post here at all.”
I personally don’t mind being offended or insulted so that’s not an argument. To avoid an answer to a challenging question with or without clear explanation may be most reasonable and devotional. Srila Prabhupada also did this every now and then. For instance when he met envious, insulting natures.
“So far all of your post are more or less a punch below the belt, stating that those who consider Prabhupada as their guru are for you personna non grata.”
Definitely not, Srila Prabhupada is also my siksa guru. Ritviks are insulting to great vaisnavas, considering everyone to be a hypocrite and conditioned within Iskcon, including of course the all the GBC members. Specifically the “everyone” is most foolish in my conviction and gives evidence of the tragical generalising nature of ritviks, a strong tendency of conditioned souls.
Whereas those who took initiation from Harikes, Prabhavishnu, Umapati, and forty other fallen ISKCON gurus, are bona fide and doing fine.
Of course not, many gurus within Iskcon are amara ajnara gurus (promoted by Srila Prabhupada and Lord Caitanya) and probably more of them will be exposed through time to be on the conditioned platform, also in terms of activities. But not all, and that is my main issue with these ritviks. Apart from that, they don’t understand sastra, don’t have buddhi.
“Suggestion is you better check out those forums where you find people of your ilk and post there? Why waste time? You made your decision already! Try to get more conversant with sastra, especially what is genuine guru-tattva.”
You’re very funny, I know sastra, have buddhi. I am not a great vaisnava perhaps but I have buddhi and never waste any time. Ritviks give evidence of popstar worship mentalitiy and they don’t know what is matter and what is spirit. Because of their envious, sentimentalistic nature, is my humble conclusion.
Commenting on this forum is very much needed since ritviks are misled by ignorance and envy. They are like fake Christians and the fanatic salafists. No knowledge, no understanding but a lot of “only he” or “only us”. So basically just impersonalists with some disturbed sentiment toward a great vaisnava.
On 19th aug I challenged Raja Gopal to produce some evidence to back up his magnificent claim; “Fortunately there are liberated acharyas within Iskcon”.
To date Raja Goapl has written hundreds and hundreds more words on this forum but remains ABSOLUTELY SILENT to my challenge. Of course he can NEVER answer because he JUST DOESN’T KNOW. This fool accepts his own delusion as truth and expects others to buy into it. Duh!
This Raja Gopal’s behaviour is like that of any low class politician liar, and when his black lies are exposed he becomes like a coward and runs and hids in the silence of impersonalisim. Like I predicted earlier, either you become angry or disappear.
ISKCON will certainly be destroyed from within by nasty little clowns like Raja Gopal peddling their lies that we have now have liberated acarayas in ISKCON but his own guru’s spiritual master, Srila Prabhupada “turned into a karmi, lowered the standard set by his guru maharaja, sniffed tobacco on a daily basis, sent money to his former wife when he already had taken sannyasa, was willing to serve dead cow to people,…”.
If the buffoon Raja Gopal turns up at our temple talking such crap we will all kick on his face with shoes in a JOLLY mood.
JFS.
Raja Gopal: @Puranjana das: I can tell you (who is my guru) but I won’t tell you because of your offensive, insulting nature, I already wrote twice, can’t you read? Srila Prabhupada is my grand guru, that I also mentioned already. Further, you fail to understand that the GBC is a an impersonal body because of its very nature. It is only a managerial commission, nothing more, nothing less.
[PADA: The GBC is the same party that claims they are — authorizing gurus — by their “2/3’s show of hands vote.” And they have simultaneously created an elaborate “guru management and control system,” i.e. after they “vote in” all kinds of gurus by their speculative “showing of hands vote” process, then they: “oversee, manage, monitor, censure, chastise, suspend, remove, revoke, and excommunicate gurus” in what they say is — Krishna’s parampara. Isn’t Krishna the overseer of His parampara?
Now Raja is saying the persons who are overseers of the gurus in our parampara are not merely bogus and speculative voters but “an impersonal body” and “managers, and nothing more.” So now Raja is saying that “impersonal managers and nothing more” are in control of the parampara, and not Krishna?
Krishna says acharyam mam vijnaiyam, the acharyas are under My control and are indeed — as good as My Self. And Raja says no, Krishna is wrong, because the acharyas are under the control of Raja’s “impersonal managers” — who create these gurus — by votes? Krishna says He dictates to the acharyas, and Raja says no, the impersonal managers create and then dictate to the acharyas?]
RAJA: First come to understand Lord Brahma, the second one our disciplic succession. He is just an illusory person, that’s a fact. People with a popstar worship mentality don’t even understand that. Ritviks lack buddhi. Again and again you give evidence of this.
[PADA: Lord Brahma is an illusory person? No, he is a real person who is the head of our parampara. Lord Brahma is a factual being, as are all the other demigods. Where does Srila Prabhupada say the demigods are not real persons? Where does Srila Prabhupada say Lord Brahma’s existence is not real, but an illusion? Sorry, the demigods are temporary, but they factually exist. And if Lord Brahma is an illusion, then you are also certainly a similar illusion. Why should we listen to you — if you are an illusion?]
RAJA: Just remain very attached to the stories of Lord Krsna and Lord Caitanya, they are very purifying for people of less intelligence. When I mention that within the body of Iskcon and the GBC body of course there are all kinds of problems, deficiencies there is no reaction to that apart from cynicism. You again and again give evidence you don’t have buddhi and therfeore also no vaisnava mentality and behaviour. Ritviks are like fanatical fake Christians and crazy Salafists. Their main characteristic: blind impersonalism.
[PADA: OK but you are the one who just said the impersonalists are the GBC body, and thus the gurus they create are also impersonal since they are created by an impersonal body? We are saying that Lord Brahma and his teachings are real, and you just said, he too is an illusion?]
RAJA: Srila Prabhupada denouces religious moralists like you very much in CC, together with worldy sex mongers. btw Who gives ritviks their “spiritual” name? Just curious, since Srila Prabhupada is in Goloka Vrndavana.
[PADA: Srila Prabhupada denounces the worldly sex mongers, that means, you are talking about your own guru parampara, since many of them are falling into illicit sex and illusion? If the party that creates debauchee gurus is denounced by Srila Prabhupada, why are you supporting that party? ys pd]
“He, (Srila Prabhupada) also sniffed tobacco on a daily basis”
Quote from Raja Gopal das, ISKCON memeber – 20 August, 2013
NB: Nicotine found in tobacco is considered a highly addictive intoxicant.
______________________________________
“By the grace of Krsna I got these two opportunities in the present life to be born of a pious father and brought up in one of the richest, aristocratic families of Calcutta (Kasinath Mullick). The Radha Krsna Deity in this family called me to meet Him, and therefore last time when I was in Calcutta, I stayed in that temple along with my American disciples. Although I had immense opportunities to indulge in the four principles of sinful life because I was connected with a very aristocratic family, Krsna always saved me, and throughout my whole life I do not know what is illicit sex, intoxication, meat-eating or gambling. So far my present life is concerned, I do not remember any part of my life when I was forgetful of Krsna.
Quote from Srila Prabhupada, founder Acarya of ISKCON. Letter to Tamal Krsna, Los Angeles, 21 June, 1970.
“Karandhar and I were in Prabhupada’s room in the early seventies. It was a beautiful afternoon, a breeze was blowing, the sun was setting and golden rays were shining on Prabhupada. It was a sublime atmosphere. Prabhupada began to talk about India at the turn of the century. He explained how people used to work, the relationships between the householders and their servants and how people used to cook. He took us back to his early childhood when he was having Ratha-yatra and worshipping Radha Govinda. Then he looked at us very strongly and said, “Whatever I am doing now I was doing then. Do you understand?” We were speechless. Prabhupada said, “Never was there a time when I did not know Krishna. Do you understand?” He said it in such a way that it was clearly the case. That was a very powerful experience.”
Quote: Hridayananda Goswami, GBC ISKCON.
“Srila Prabhupada turned into a Karmi being enchanted by Gandhi,…”
Quote: Raja Gopal das, ISKCON.
@Puranjana das
I agree with you fully that Krishna is in charge of the acharyas and are as good as Himself. Not anyone else is in control. Srila Prabhupada, however, wanted a managerial systeem within Iskcon to control and check, among other things, the sadhana of the devotees, including that of gurus. Correct or not?
I don’t know whether gurus “are voted in” or that gurus are allowed to function within Iskcon by vote according to the standards of the GBC. There is a huge difference between the two. The former is at least highly discutable, the latter is correct imho.
GBC members are not impersonalists, the GBC body as a whole, by nature, is impersonal. Realisation of impersonal brahman, a personal state of consciousness, is the source of great spiritual joy. Specifically when used in Sri Krishna’s service. Impersonal brahman realisation, the brahma bhuta position, is the beginning of actual spiritual life. Actual hearing begins from the brahma bhuta platform.
“Lord Brahma” is in illusion until he takes to devotional service. Just show me a lord Brahma with four heads? Or one with 16 heads, or 32 heads. These are all temporary, illusory positions of the conditioned soul. Just study the purport of BG 7.14 where Srila Prabhupada clearly states that maya, illusion, is “temporary or FALSE”. And Lord Brahma certainly is in maya when he arrives in the dark universe. Only after a lot of tapasya he gets cleared of of his illusions, his false impressions. Correct or not?
I am supportive of Iskcon as a Krshna devotee and a disciple of a disciple of Srila Prabhupada. I of course know mistakes are being made by Iskcon devotees, the GBC body. I myself definitely make mistakes. I know however, that whatever mistakes are being made are burned in the fire of bhakti. Personally I just depend on Sri Visnu for my complete para bhakti liberation. My guru and grand guru Srila Prabhupada are my spiritual teachers, examples.
Definitely I am not a blind, fanatical follower with a popstar worship mentality. This mentality one does perhaps have and has some function in the very beginning stages of Krsna bhakti.
Regarding mistakes: BG 18.48 “every endeavour is covered by some fault just as fire is covered by smoke, therefore one should not give up the work born of his nature, even if such work is full of faults”
So who decides on your motivation and purity of action? Sri Visnu, not the guru. The guru is the inspirator, the example. When one is liberated one sponteneously worships guru, since he is part and parcel of Sri Krshna.
Up until liberation the worship of guru is conditional. That’s one reason the position of guru is highly risky when the guru himself is not para bhakta.
@Just-a-fruit-seller
“turned into a karmi, lowered the standard set by his guru maharaja, sniffed tobacco on a daily basis, sent money to his former wife when he already had taken sannyasa, was willing to serve dead cow to people,…”.
What’s wrong with the above? Srila Prabhupada certainly became attracted to Gandhi’s worldly political movement. Srila Prabhupada certainly had argument with Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati before he was able to surrender to him.
The other items which I mention, eg lowering that standard of quantity of chanting by 75%, willing to serve dead cow in order to start chanting etc. etc., are also true. According to my information of course. They are not true, according to you?
So you can argue what you like and become angry what you want these things have happened. At least according to the info I have which I indeed find truthworthy.
For me it doesn’t matter. Srila Prabhupada convinced my guru of the great treasure of bhakti and my guru convinced me of the great treasure of bhakti. That’s all that counts.
I worship Srila Prabhupada in a most respectful but also joyful manner, not with a popstar worship mentality where there is no room for the mentioned items. Of course, I don’t mention them to neophytes, but you are grown up devotees, is it not?
@Just-a-fruit-seller
I am convinced that Srila Prabhupada presented himself sometimes as an “always faultless, Absolute person on a relative platform (for the conditioned soul)” because otherwise many of his discples would have turned away from him.
Neophytes often need this, Srila Prabhupada offered it, with love.
Raja Gopala dasa: And you know why there is such a big gap after Vyasadeva and Madhva acharya in the disciplic succession? No? Just visit the Himalyas. If you’re able to find them …
Mahesh: The rascal does not understand that the BIG gap is due to ONLY THE PROMINENT ACARYA IS ACCEPTED: We have to pick up the PROMINENT acaryas, and follow from HIM. Srila Prabhupada IS the CURRENT PROMINENT ACARYA THEREFORE WE HAVE TO ACCEPT AND FOLLOW HIM:
1968 Correspondence : April : Letter to: Dayananda — San Francisco 12 April, 1968 : 68-04-12 :
Regarding parampara system: there is nothing to wonder for big gaps. Just like we belong to the Brahma Sampradaya, so we accept it from Krishna to Brahma, Brahma to Narada, Narada to Vyasadeva, Vyasadeva to Madhva, and between Vyasadeva and Madhva there is a big gap. But it is sometimes said that Vyasadeva is still living, and Madhva was fortunate enough to meet him directly. In a similar way, we find in the Bhagavad-gita that the Gita was taught to the sungod, some millions of years ago, but Krishna has mentioned only three names in this parampara system—namely, Vivasvan, Manu, and Iksvaku; and so these gaps do not hamper from understanding the parampara system. We have to pick up the prominent acaryas, and follow from him. There are many branches also from the parampara system, and it is not possible to record all the branches and sub-branches in the disciplic succession. We have to pick up from the authority of the acharya in whatever sampradaya we belong to.
Raja Gopala dasa: And the story of the disciplic succession, with Lord Brahma, a most powerful … illusory person, next to Lord Krsna.
Mahesh: Rascal says Lord Brahma is illusory person – just see! And he thinks he has buddhi(intelligence) What buddhi? He speaks nonsense.
We go by WHAT Srila Prabhupada has taught us:
Letter to: Jadurani Montreal 9 July, 1968
Your questions about Lord Brahma: “Brahma is a great devotee of Lord Krishna and Brahma Samhita, etc., reveal his knowledge of the Lord. So are these 2 stories (namely, 1. He doubted Krishna became a cowherds Boy and stole His cows, etc.; 2. Krishna showed him the 1/4 part of His creation after Brahma had to designate himself as 4-headed Brahma.), are these 2 stories just examples to we conditioned souls, who think we can put God under restrictions?” Brahma is not among the great devotees, but he is a devotee of Krishna. All the great devotees of Krishna are in the Krishna loka, constant companions of Krishna at Vrindaban. They are actually great devotees of Krishna. Brahma is great devotee in the sense that he wants to serve Krishna the best with some material power. That means that he has a tendency to enjoy some material opulence. So Krishna has made him the number 1 living creature within this universe. But a great devotee does not want even the position of a Brahma. He would prefer to become an insignificant living creature like an ant or spider in the house of a great devotee, then to become Brahma, who has got the inclination of becoming powerful in the material world. The great devotees are always liberated from all material desires, big or small. That is the sign of great devotees.
Brahma came to Krishna because he has very exalted idea about Krishna, and he was doubtful how his Lord could come into the material world and become a cowherd boy. This incidence is known as Brahma Bemohan lila, or the pastime of bewildering Brahma. In the beginning of Srimad-Bhagavatam, it is stated that great personalities like Brahma become bewildered in the understanding of the Absolute Truth. So sometimes such pastimes are manifested by the Lord in order to teach the so-called mental speculators. Even Arjuna was bewildered, although he was His constant companion. Arjuna also was talking from the material view point of standing. All this bewilderment of great devotees are created by the Lord, for 2 purposes: one purpose, is that even great personalities like Brahma and Arjuna sometimes become bewildered, and therefore, unless they present themselves in such position of bewilderment, the common men do not have the chance to understand Krishna. If Brahma would not have posed himself as not knowing the whole truth, then some truths about the transcendental position of Krishna would not have been explained. Besides that, we cannot calculate even one day’s duration of the life of Brahma. So, Krishna appears only once in a day of Brahma, and that takes a rotation of unlimited trillions of solar years. So some incidences take place in one day, and other incidents take place in another day. Just like we do something today, something else in a week, and we forget today’s action tomorrow, and tomorrow’s action after a week. And that is the nature of conditioned life. Therefore, Brahma being a big conditioned soul, this forgetfulness of one’s affairs in the next day are not uncommon. Just as we are forgetful, Brahma also is subject to forgetfulness. Our so much so-called knowledge is nothing in comparison to Krishna’s full knowledge. That is admitted by Brahma there in that verse, that people may say they know You very well, but so far I am concerned, I admit I do not know even a farthing of You!
Letter to: Pradyumna Calcutta 17 October, 1967
Brahma Samhita is the gist of the Srimad-Bhagavatam. In the Bhagavad gita as well as in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, Krishna is accepted as Supreme Lord & everything about him is nicely described there, similarly in the Brahma-Samhita everything about Krishna is perfectly described. In the very beginning of the book, Krishna is accepted as the Supreme Lord existing eternally in his transcendental form and is the cause of all causes. One who reads Brahma Samhita very carefully & scrutinizingly can understand everything of Krishna without any fault. I recommend, therefore that all my students read Brahma Samhita very carefully—especially because it was translated personally by my spiritual master Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Goswami Maharaja.
FisKcon and it’s supporters are in fact asara or useless. ” Isgone” works fully under the illusory energy of Maya śakti, any contact with the Putanas is like diving in ocean of poison. Some rascals will say this is to radical view, but personally I don’t even listen to any sound produced by them, literally any. We should clearly declare war on them. No mercy emergency state unless they surrender humbly to the only one ISKCON Founder Acarya, sakshad Hari Sri Guru, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada. Thank you prabhus for your courage and the fighting spirit.
y.s. bj
@Mahesh Raja
You apparently only understand formalities, formal stories. Actually you should realise guru-parampara, like all the rest.
Srila Prbhupada gave many, many stories so that his disciples would become attached to him and HDG instructions and get realised. That is what it is about, becoming realised. Not about quoting sastra and repeating all kinds of stories like a parrot.
Regarding Lord Brahma, the one with only the four heads, oke? Just read BG 8.16.
Ritviks truly don’t understand anything. The Brahma Samhita is written by Lord Brahma only when he turned into a vaisnava, after many thousands years of penances.
Actually, Brahmaji and Lord Siva agreed to serve as hills in the varsana area of braja. So they are hills these days serving Krsna, the cowherd boys, the gopis and all the other wonderful servants.
But there are unlimted Brahmajis left, with many, many heads. How can that be?
Actually, Lord Caitanya explaines Sarvabhauma Battacharya and Ramanada Raya in the CC that he is just an impersonal philosopher who doesn’t understand anything. And that Sri Krsna is a very funny person. In all twelve rasas, of course.
@bhakta jarek
Declaring war? No problem, Srila Prabhuapda said Iskcon would fight wars, so we will fight wars. You die anyway, so what’s the problem?
But you confirm my suspicion, ritviks many times are angry, fallen worriers. Not exalted vaisnava ksatryas or vaisnava brahmanas but fallen, angry, frustrated people without any spiritual realisation.
“Only Srila Prabhupada”, like “only Mohammed”, “only Jesus”, “only Buddha” etc. etc. Indeed, only just another Kali yuga religion if you worship like that …
@Pratyatosa Dasa
Wonderful that Srila Prabhupada inspired you so powerfully and divinely. Your guru maharaja, my grand guru is definitely not an ordinary person. HDG is at least a saktiavesa avatar, a true lover of the Lord.
But when I would state such an expierience about me meeting my guru, and I definitively have, I would meet cynicism and insult on this forum … That’s my problem with ritviks.
@Puranjana das
I agree with you fully that Krishna is in charge of the acharyas and are as good as Himself. Not anyone else is in control. Srila Prabhupada, however, wanted a managerial system within Iskcon to control and check, among other things, the sadhana of the devotees, including that of gurus. Correct or not?
[PADA: Now you are mixing managers and acharyas? The GBC says that the GBC manages the acharyas, so the acharyas are voted in, monitored, censured, suspended, removed and so on, all by GBC votes. Then you say that the GBC is full of mistakes, so you are saying the people who are in charge of managing and monitoring the acharyas, are full of mistakes?]
RAJA: I don’t know whether gurus “are voted in” or that gurus are allowed to function within Iskcon by vote according to the standards of the GBC. There is a huge difference between the two. The former is at least highly discutable, the latter is correct imho.
[PADA: The GBC says in their documents that their gurus are 2/3 show of hands voted in?]
RAJA: GBC members are not impersonalists, the GBC body as a whole, by nature, is impersonal. Realisation of impersonal brahman, a personal state of consciousness, is the source of great spiritual joy. Specifically when used in Sri Krishna’s service. Impersonal brahman realisation, the brahma bhuta position, is the beginning of actual spiritual life. Actual hearing begins from the brahma bhuta platform.
[PADA: OK, then now you are saying an impersonal body is managing the acharyas, and not Krishna?]
RAJA: “Lord Brahma” is in illusion until he takes to devotional service. Just show me a lord Brahma with four heads? Or one with 16 heads, or 32 heads. These are all temporary, illusory positions of the conditioned soul. Just study the purport of BG 7.14 where Srila Prabhupada clearly states that maya, illusion, is “temporary or FALSE”. And Lord Brahma certainly is in maya when he arrives in the dark universe. Only after a lot of tapasya he gets cleared of of his illusions, his false impressions. Correct or not?
[PADA: The body of the acharya is supposed to be considered as spiritual, and its an offense to consider it as material. There are plenty of quote on that topic.]
RAJA: I am supportive of Iskcon as a Krshna devotee and a disciple of a disciple of Srila Prabhupada. I of course know mistakes are being made by Iskcon devotees, the GBC body.
[PADA: Now you are saying that the managerial body that manages the acharyas are full of mistakes?]
RAJA: I myself definitely make mistakes. I know however, that whatever mistakes are being made are burned in the fire of bhakti. Personally I just depend on Sri Visnu for my complete para bhakti liberation. My guru and grand guru Srila Prabhupada are my spiritual teachers, examples. Definitely I am not a blind, fanatical follower with a popstar worship mentality. This mentality one does perhaps have and has some function in the very beginning stages of Krsna bhakti.
Regarding mistakes: BG 18.48 “every endeavour is covered by some fault just as fire is covered by smoke, therefore one should not give up the work born of his nature, even if such work is full of faults”
[PADA: Working in material nature is not the same as pure devotional service? This working for Krishna is called karma yoga, not pure devotional service?]
RAJA: So who decides on your motivation and purity of action? Sri Visnu, not the guru. The guru is the inspirator, the example. When one is liberated one sponteneously worships guru, since he is part and parcel of Sri Krshna. Up until liberation the worship of guru is conditional. That’s one reason the position of guru is highly risky when the guru himself is not para bhakta.
[PADA: Anyway now we are making progress, you are still saying that gurus are managed by a group of impersonal managers who are full of faults, and not, by Krishna. ys pd]
@RajaGopalaDas: “But you confirm my suspicion, ritviks many times are angry, fallen worriers. Not exalted vaisnava ksatryas or vaisnava brahmanas but fallen, angry, frustrated people without any spiritual realisation.”
If you realy believe this you never would waste even one second posting here. Instead you rather believe the opposite that ritviks are on the winning side because Prabhupada will be always there, no fears or worries he can be gone. Whereas your parade of neophyte guru trainees – nobody knows if they remain in office, things are plain and simple — uncertain.
And this factor of trembling uncertainty, living in constant fear – however big or small it may be – this is not genuine guru-tattva. Disciples who live in fear are vulnerable to be attacked by demon of doubt (Madhu) what stultifies the mind.
Whereas genuine Gaudiya-Vaishnavism is 100% free of doubt, no insecurity.
When it comes to understand ISKCON Bangalore’s brilliant performance you lost touch with reality.
ISKCON Bangalore is doing better than all Western temples together! In fact ISKCON Bangalore is worth (including all branches) over 1 billion US dollars.
Thats the reason why RS, JPS, BCS are suing ISKCON Bangalore, they are after the money. What you guys don’t understand is, ISKCON Bangalore’s success is there because it is connected with the parampara via Prabhupada!
Therefore your attempt to grab ISKCON Bangalore is like killing the goose to get the golden eggs. To “kill the goose that lays the golden eggs” describes destroying a spiritual project out of greed – you think destroying it will make you even more money than keeping it going under Prabhupada’s mercy.
@Puranjana das
I agree with you fully that Krishna is in charge of the acharyas and are as good as Himself. Not anyone else is in control. Srila Prabhupada, however, wanted a managerial system within Iskcon to control and check, among other things, the sadhana of the devotees, including that of gurus. Correct or not?
[PADA: Now you are mixing managers and acharyas? The GBC says that the GBC manages the acharyas, so the acharyas are voted in, monitored, censured, suspended, removed and so on, all by GBC votes. Then you say that the GBC is full of mistakes, so you are saying the people who are in charge of managing and monitoring the acharyas, are full of mistakes?]
Answer: Srila Prabhupada wanted a controlling body for keeping the place formally clean. An acharya can accept or reject the managerial GBC and when he rejects start his own organisation. And of course, the GBC makes mistakes. Srila Prabhupada made many (so-called) mistakes, his books for instance needed big editing before they were ready for print. Now, you can take this as an offence, impossible, lila whatever, the fact remains is that one always needs to remain a humble vaisnava, regardless. Then one doesn’t mind these mistakes because one remains in bhakti. A devotee doesn’t seek perfection where it is not be found.
RAJA: I don’t know whether gurus “are voted in” or that gurus are allowed to function within Iskcon by vote according to the standards of the GBC. There is a huge difference between the two. The former is at least highly discutable, the latter is correct imho.
[PADA: The GBC says in their documents that their gurus are 2/3 show of hands voted in?]
Answer: That would be problematic for me but by no means disconnect me from Iskcon. I know Iskcon is a young organisation and Srila Prabhupada gave big, big instructions to very, very young vaisnavas.
RAJA: GBC members are not impersonalists, the GBC body as a whole, by nature, is impersonal. Realisation of impersonal brahman, a personal state of consciousness, is the source of great spiritual joy. Specifically when used in Sri Krishna’s service. Impersonal brahman realisation, the brahma bhuta position, is the beginning of actual spiritual life. Actual hearing begins from the brahma bhuta platform.
[PADA: OK, then now you are saying an impersonal body is managing the acharyas, and not Krishna?]
Answer: Sri Krsna is of course managing everything: BG 7.12. That’s for you, as an individual devotee to realise, of course. We’re liberated or condtioned puppets, that’s it.
RAJA: “Lord Brahma” is in illusion until he takes to devotional service. Just show me a lord Brahma with four heads? Or one with 16 heads, or 32 heads. These are all temporary, illusory positions of the conditioned soul. Just study the purport of BG 7.14 where Srila Prabhupada clearly states that maya, illusion, is “temporary or FALSE”. And Lord Brahma certainly is in maya when he arrives in the dark universe. Only after a lot of tapasya he gets cleared of of his illusions, his false impressions. Correct or not?
[PADA: The body of the acharya is supposed to be considered as spiritual, and its an offense to consider it as material. There are plenty of quote on that topic.]
Answer: Everything is spiritual, sarvam kalv idam brahma, sakti saktimatayor abheda. Illusion is also spiritual since it is Sri Krsna’s energy.
RAJA: I am supportive of Iskcon as a Krshna devotee and a disciple of a disciple of Srila Prabhupada. I of course know mistakes are being made by Iskcon devotees, the GBC body.
[PADA: Now you are saying that the managerial body that manages the acharyas are full of mistakes?]
Answer: Already answered.
RAJA: I myself definitely make mistakes. I know however, that whatever mistakes are being made are burned in the fire of bhakti. Personally I just depend on Sri Visnu for my complete para bhakti liberation. My guru and grand guru Srila Prabhupada are my spiritual teachers, examples. Definitely I am not a blind, fanatical follower with a popstar worship mentality. This mentality one does perhaps have and has some function in the very beginning stages of Krsna bhakti.
Regarding mistakes: BG 18.48 “every endeavour is covered by some fault just as fire is covered by smoke, therefore one should not give up the work born of his nature, even if such work is full of faults”
[PADA: Working in material nature is not the same as pure devotional service? This working for Krishna is called karma yoga, not pure devotional service?]
Answer: Karma yoga is at utmost mixed bhakti. I leave it up to Sri Visnu what my qualifications are. Buddhi I certainly have, that’s clear. Pure bhakti is another thing, again, that’s for Sri Visnu to decide.
RAJA: So who decides on your motivation and purity of action? Sri Visnu, not the guru. The guru is the inspirator, the example. When one is liberated one sponteneously worships guru, since he is part and parcel of Sri Krshna. Up until liberation the worship of guru is conditional. That’s one reason the position of guru is highly risky when the guru himself is not para bhakta.
[PADA: Anyway now we are making progress, you are still saying that gurus are managed by a group of impersonal managers who are full of faults, and not, by Krishna. ys pd]
Asnwer: Again, the guru, which can be of different categories, can abide by the formalities of sadhana as HDG wanted it to be or start his own organisation, or perhaps get excommunicated when he performs anti sadhana actions.
Remember Srila Prabhupada wanted this controlling entity. And he clearly stated, the GBC has no absolute power. It’s imho a most difficult, specific service they are providing, at the demand of Srila Prabhupada. Never before in vaisnava history this has taken place. So to condemn the participating devotees en masse is most, most improper and offensive, imho.
[Vertaal]
@Rukmini Ramana dd
“… Instead you rather believe the opposite that ritviks are on the winning side …”
Why don’t you just ask me? Jumping to conclusions is your habit? Frankly speaking, I couldn’t care less what will happen with the Bangalore temple, if the present managers are able to expand the glories of Srila Prabhupada I think it is wonderful.
Srila Prabhupada of course wanted to make pure vaisnavas, not all kinds of quantity. Big this, big that.
For me commenting here it is just to get to know you people better. And I only get confirmed that you are angry and materialistic sentimentalists. Because you like to offend very developed or even liberated vaisnavas.
“Only Srila Prabhupada” is like “only Jesus Christ”, “only Mohammed”, “only Buddha” and therefore … only another Kaliu yuga religion.
That is not what Srila Prabhupada wants, of that I am fully convinced. He wants to distribute eternal spiritual knowledge and that everyone has the chance to reach the level of pure bhakti.
btw Who gives the ritviks their devotional names. Just curious since Srila Prabhupada isn’t around anymore being able to do that.
@RG: “Jumping to conclusions is your habit?”
You can look at it in whatever way you want. By default a spiritual master emerges as current link of Krishna’s parampara system. There is no need to point our torch at the sun in order to see the sun. ISKCON has chosen the path to make a detour, to go a long way round, piling up a huge mountain of failures (very good PR work!). At one point, when everything has failed, Prabhupada will be there and since nobody is left, everybody will understand who is the guru of ISKCON. Once and for all. That is called, self-effulgent acarya.
@Asok Kumar das
“… He automatically, by his qualities, he becomes accepted. Yes. …”
Very nice quote. Indeed, a guru doesn’t need anyones authorisation. He is qualified and becomes accepted by his liberated actions. Still, Srila Prabhupada wanted a controlling entity in the form of a GBC to keep the organisation sound. This is a big, rather complex instruction serious devotees however do not walk away from.
Srila Prabhupada is of course the founder acharya of Iskcon. But the only Iskcon guru? Ritviks decide that? So ritviks are the guru’s, they order, decide? After Srila Prabhupada no more guru’s?
Actually, we should all become guru’s, become qualified. This is what Srila Prabhupada more than once stated. And btw, Srila Prabhupada and Lord Caitanya also promoted the amara ajnara guru.
“Only Srila Prabhupada” is like “only Jesus Christ”, “only Mohammed”, “only Buddha”. And therefore only another Kali yuga religion.
Ritvik politicians like Madhu Pandit become wealthy, perhaps powerful, popular and … play guru. They decide, they order, they become prominent, they get servants. No realisations whatsoever, however. Just some religious popularity. Nice shows, nice puja, nice food distribution, nice temple etc. etc. The blind following the blind. Nice politics and nice impersonalism …
Serious people look for personal spiritual guidance, instruction. I am most happy I met my guru maharaja, a faithful and realised disciple of Srila Prabhupada. Ritviks are in my analysis just impersonalists, that’s all.
Raja Gopal, I can’t accept your analysis of His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada as it is contrary to Prabhupada’s own words. Sorry.
You seem to repeat that the Ritviks worship Prabhupada as some kind of popstar. Please produce some facts to back this claim?
Is it because they recite his pranams, dress his murti, offer arati, chant “Jai Prabhupada”, read his original books, distribute his original books, go out on hari nama as he instructed, worship the Deity according to his guidlines, chant japa as he asked, celebrate his appearance day, sing the Guru-astaka every day and the Sri Guru-vandana, et al?
This ‘popstar’ idiom you’ve rolled out seems like just another straw man, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and await some FACTS and PROOF that the Ritviks indeed worship Srila Prabhupada like a ‘popstar’.
Oh, and I’m still waiting for the names of the liberated acaryas in ISKCON. My ISKCON guru fell down and left many of us feeling cheated and confused, he took so much service and money over the years so it wasn’t very inspiring to find out he was actually a fraud. There are also many rumours within the movement regarding other prospective guru’s and I sure would like to get it right next time, and so since you claim to hold the key to who is liberated acarya in ISKCON I’m keen to know some of their names please?
JFS.
This conditioned Jiva Raja Gopala dasa is so blinded himself in following the conditioned guru personally for his spiritual guidance, instructions as he quotes in his comments ; ” Serious people look for personal spiritual guidance, instruction. I am most happy I met my guru maharaja, a faithful and realised disciple of Srila Prabhupada. Ritviks are in my analysis just impersonalists, that’s all. ”
Where as HDG. Srila Prabhupada says this as a warning in his quote ; “Yes. My Guru Maharaja passed in 1936, and I started this movement in 1965, thirty years after. Then? I am getting the mercy of guru. This is vani. Even the guru is not physically present, if you follow the vani, then you are getting help.”
(Morning Walk — July 21, 1975, San Francisco)
Raja Gopala you do not need a living guru. As long as you follow the Vani of Srila Prabhupada even He is not physically present, if you follow the Vani then you are getting help from the Spiritual Master as Srila Prabhupada said.
That is all you need, Pure VANI of Srila Prabhupada to make your life sublime in cultivating Krishna Consciousness.
Raja Gopala please answer ;
is Srila Prabhupada impersonlist as per your analysis quoted above ?
What did Srila Prabhupada follow after the departure of His Guru Maharaja ?
Did Srila Prabhupada follow living guru when His Guru Maharaja was absent physically ?
So, my humble request to you is that please pass the message to your guru and his other disciples including yourself also to become amara ajnara guru who carries the Holy Name of Lord in order to deliver the Jivas in every town and village on this planet earth and NOT by accepting own disciples in the spiritual institution of Iskcon world wide in which Srila Prabhupada has not authorized any one of his disciples as a SUCCESSOR.
Hope you do understand this time because you are so IGNORANT that you keep on ignoring my messages by not answering.
One of the example is re-produced below for your kind reading ;
Raja Gopala dasa says:
18. August 2013 at 9:57 pm
@Amar Puri
The amara ajnara guru is promoted by Srila Prabhupada and Lord Caitanya so why do you state that it is my invention? Don’t you follow Srila Prabhupada? Why not?
Do you read and understand my comments, Raja Gopala dasa before you reply to it ?
NO, you do not . Because your reply does not address to my comments. That is why you keep on writing as such which is a waste of time and energy to repeat it every time.
You and your guru’s invention is accepting own disciples in the Spiritual Organization Iskcon in which Srila Prabhupada has not authorized any one of His disciples to be His SUCCESSOR. …. BAS…….
Do you get it, Raja Gopala dasa ????????
NO. You never get it because you continue misleading the readers by quoting your ignorant concocted remarks as such ; ” Besides, Srila Prabhupada doesn’t state amara ajnara guru’s cannot initiate into the disciplic succesion. “Better not” doesn’t say “cannot”.
it shows how ignorant you are because you keep on ignoring the instructions where Srila Prabhupada warns ; ” It is better not to accept your own disciples. Besides that warning Srila Prabhupada did not authorize any one of his disciples to be His SUCCESSORS in His Iskcon Organization….. BAS.
Where is such written Authorization from HDG. Srila Prabhupada ???????????
So where is that possibility of even having an assumption of ” can not accept own disciples ” as ignorantly Raja Gopala introduces his own ideas on behalf of his deviant self made guru whom Raja Gopala remains hesitant to disclose such a liberated deviant guru in the present Iskcon as Raja Gopala protects and promotes his deviant liberated guru in the present Iskcon. ????????
Where is the room for CAN NOT accept disciples as invented by Raja Gopal who is trying to mislead the readers with his ignorant ???????
I hope that Raja Gopala dasa consults with his deviant liberated guru to find the right answer to my questions put forth here before he writes in this forum again in order to avoid wasting time of the readers.
Hari BOL.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
YS ………. Amar Puri
RAJA: Serious people look for personal spiritual guidance, instruction. I am most happy I met my guru maharaja, a faithful and realised disciple of Srila Prabhupada. Ritviks are in my analysis just impersonalists, that’s all.
[PADA: The GBC has created since 1977 many letters, documents, lectures, position papers etc. saying that gurus fall down into illicit sex, and in Jayadvaita’s paper he even says gurus fall down into illicit sex with men, women and children. I am not sure where in the Vedas we are told that worship of illicit sex gurus is going to take us back to God? Where is this stated? And if Raja’s guru does not even know that illicit sex is not found in our Vedic gurus, then what does he know? Even a ten year old child in the USA knows that gurus are not engaged in debauchery, but Raja’s guru has no clue? That means any ten year old child in the USA has a better idea of what are the qualities of guru than Raja and his guru have? ys pd]
Hey Raja Gopal, also just to let you know, our ISKCON sannyasi GBC – who authorized our guru – also fell down! (He’s a rich man enjoying a luxury retirement now, so it all worked out for him at least.)
Anyhow, you ask “btw Who gives the ritviks their devotional names. Just curious since Srila Prabhupada isn’t around anymore being able to do that.”
So I’m wondering, did Srila Prabhupada give everyone’s devotional name personally that he initiated, or did the devotees who performed the fire yajna and chanted on the beads, (some might call them the Ritvik Priests) also give the devotional names on Srila Prabhupad’s behalf? I don’t know the answer, but it would interesting to hear from devotees who were around then as it seems an important point.
@Just-a-fruit-seller
The guru brings Krsna, that is the function of guru. When you become conscious of Krsna you automatically worship guru, sponteneously. It is definitely my analysis ritviks are not becoming conscious of Krsna because they lack buddhi, are cynical, and therefore the worship of Srila Prabhupada is popstar worship.
When you read the BG 3.9 purport you notice that SP explaines that only in the beginning of ones spiritual life one needs the expert guidance of a devotee or the expert guidance from Sri Krsa himself.
When you are conscious of Krsna there is no need for a guru anymore. You worship Krsna 24/7, which automatically includes “guru”.
Actually a developed devotee has killed his guru so to speak, since he has become sponteneously attracted to Sri Krsna and therefore to his former “guru” also. The formal relationship between guru and disciple is only for kanistha and madhyam adhikari’s. Most important, but we have to be willing to go further if we want to reach at least the brahma bhuta platform.
I know SP stated that the relationship between guru and disciple is eternal. It is eternal of course but when realised certainly on a different level. Namely the sponteneous level where you are 24/7 conscious of Sri Krsna.
I can understand fully that disciples have become most, most frustrated when their guru turned out only to be an amara ajnaya guru that did not purify himself further. However, that does not mean that there aren’t any liberated devotees within Iskcon. To generalise out of anger and cynicism is something conditioned souls like to do very much, many times almost as an instant reflex. This anger and cynicism blinds completely, tragically enough.
I myself am critical of the GBC and their actions but only in a devotional mood. I am obliged to do that as a service to my guru, a member of the GBC, and of course as a service to Srila Prabhupada and his guru Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura.
btw, I am willing to give the name of my guru when you promise not to start insulting and offending.
About the devotional names; I don’t know how it has been always executed in the past. I received my name directly form my diksa guru. But how do ritviks do that since they only accept Srila Prabhupada as bona fide guru?
@Puranjana das
The amara ajnaya guru may be exposed through time to be just that, a non liberated devotee acting as a guru who is not able to maintain even the formal, disciplinary platform.
Srila Prabhupada and Lord Caitanya have promoted this type of guru.
So if you like to be cynical, offending and insulting know the ones, namely your objects of worship, who promoted this type of guru.
@amar puri
Why do you use the question mark and capital letters so often? A sign of passion perhaps? Passion is unhealthy, it leads to misery. I read your comments but don’t agree on your analysis and conclusions.
In terms of content; SP received personal instruction from his living guru, that’s a fact.
SP never got the instruction from his guru to become an acharya, a diks guru, never. Still he became one. The fact is that an acharya doens’t need anyone’s authorisation. He is simply qualified by his consciousness and actions and is requested to act as a guru. And SP many times made clear he wanted his disciples to become guru, “like father, like son”. Qualified sons, that’s for sure.
Iskcon is a difficult movement to understand for cynical, frustrated persons, that I understand. Serious devotees know that within Iskcon there are liberated and highly developed devotees, middle class devotees, start ups and envious cheaters. The latter group is Krsna’s mercy also, of course, because we should become conscious of Krsna, not get some worldly vision the Iskcon organisation.
Raja Gopala dasa says:
22. August 2013 at 7:17 pm
“Srila Prabhupada is of course the founder acharya of Iskcon.
But the only Iskcon guru? Ritviks decide that? So ritviks are
the guru’s, they order, decide? After Srila Prabhupada no more
guru’s?”
SG — Good, Raja Gopala dasa, you are able to understand these foolish
ritviks’ mentality. They make their own ‘sastras’ as they go along,
interpret everything Srila Prabhupada says through their defective
senses.
Srila Prabhupada says quote :
” His Divine Grace Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Prabhupada’s
Disappearance Day, Lecture — Hyderabad, December 10, 1976:
So this knowledge means to understand the original source.
That is philosophy, find out the original source. That is
knowledge. So the vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyo. Actually
the knowledge terminates when you understand Krsna. He is
the source of everything. So there is a “struggle for existence,
a human race, the only hope, His Divine Grace.”
So we got this information from His Divine Grace Bhaktisiddhanta
Sarasvati Thakura, and that knowledge is still going on. You are
receiving through his servant. And in future the same knowledge
will go to your students. This is called parampara system. Evam
parampara prap… It is not that you have become a student and
you’ll remain student. No.
One day you shall become also guru and make more students, more
students, more. That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s mission, not that
perpetually… Yes, one should remain perpetually a student, but
he has to act as guru. That is the mission of Caitanya Mahaprabhu.
It is not that because I am acting as guru, I am no longer student.
No, I am still student.
Caitanya Mahaprabhu taught us this instruction that we shall always
remain a foolish student before our Guru Maharaja. That is the Vedic
culture. I may be very big man, but still, I should remain a foolish
student to my guru. That is the qualification. Guru more murkha dekhi’
karila sasana (CC Adi 7.71).
We should be always prepared to be controlled by the guru. That is very
good qualification. Yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasada? **. Ara na kariha
mane asa **. So we should become always a very obedient student to our
guru. That is the qualification. That is the spiritual qualification.”
The foolish ritviks are so pissed with Iskcon and GBC that even if they
are wrong in almost all their interpretation on Srila Prabhupada
statements and instructions they are convinced they are right and
they try to preach their defective nonsense interpretations.
With these ritviks we don’t get honesty, sincerity and truthfulness.
We have ritvik ‘court jesters’ like Amar Puri and Mahesh Raja bogus
yogi who continuously talk nonsense and they will never admit if they
wrong.
For example, when we asked, “All those initiations that has been taking
place in Iskcon Bangalore, Singapore, Uk, US etc, by those so called ritvik
initiators, were they appointed by Srila Prabhupada to accept devotees
and perform initiations on his behalf?”
Amar Puri gives a reply by saying that it is not necessary to be appointed
by the spiritual master to perform initiation on his behalf. Amar Puri says
any Tom, Dick and Harry who consider himself to be sincere and serious
can do that and the spiritual master will automatically accept them as his
disciples and he has not quoted any direct reference to confirm that
Srila Prabhupada has said this or agree to it. Pure mental speculation
from a ritvik fool.
When Srila Prabhupada was present, in the beginning he was directly but
when the Krsna consciousness movement he started expanded world wide,
to perform initiation was not single handedly possible.
Being a practical person and a realized soul , he arranged that his senior
most disciples assist him in performing initiations on his behalf. Each
and every initiation that was performed was performed under his direct
approval via letter etc.
Without Srila Prabhupada’s approval and acceptance no one of his disciples
took it upon themselves to give initiation to any devotees on his behalf.
And this silly foolish ritvik Amar Puri is giving his own mentally speculated
statement and to him these are facts. This is the kind of nonsense these
ritviks are preaching.
Definition of fact – Knowledge or information based on real occurrences: an account based on fact.
The other fellow, the self glorifying, I am all knowing Mahesh Raja bogus yogi
uncultured sudra gives pages and pages of quotes and almost all of them has
no relevance to what we are discussing.
A spin doctor and a fool who has a nasty habit of interpreting everything that
Srila Prabhupada has said during his presence to falsely mean as related to
Post Samadi Ritvik.
Worst, he has this mentality that he is more intelligent than Srila Prabhupada
whom he has accepted as his post samadhi diksa spiritual master.
For example, when Srila Prabhupada said that a devotee can go back to Godhead
in this life time as long as he is sincere and serious, Mahesh Raja bogus yogi says
otherwise, that it is not possible to go back home in this life time .
“Mahesh Raja’s nonsense interpretation :
MR — ” Yes – it is possible ONLY for those who ACCEPT
Srila Prabhupada as DIKSA Guru OTHERWISE IF THEY
REJECT JULY 9TH 1977 RITVIK ORDER THEY ARE
DOOMED! The ANTI Ritviks have appointment with
YAMARAJA — no question of missing the appointment
Yamaduttas will come to transport them for judgement
where they accept next material body of cats dogs hogs
pigs snakes”
AND THIS :
MR — “There is no contradiction — one simply has to see that
Dhruva Maharaja’s level was a RARE case — “because in one
lifetime, by dint of his SEVERE PENANCES AND
AUSTERITIES , he had achieved Vaikuntha.
So WHO is going to do SEVERE PENANCES AND
AUSTERITIES ?
SG prabhu what you have pointed out is a young child so
determined to practice severe penances and austerities.
Now if you see the GENERAL section of society they can
not even follow properly the 4 regs and chanting 16 rounds
what to speak of SEVERE PENANCES AND AUSTERITIES.
The philosophy is simultaneous oness and different ie for
the RARE soul who can do SEVERE PENANCES AND
AUSTERITIES one can go back in one life BUT for the
GENERAL folks IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO GO BACK TO
GODHEAD IN ONE LIFE. It is NOT so cheap.”
AND THIS :
MR — “you don’t make it a cheap sahjiya thing. The words
“SERIOUS AND SINCERE AS DHRUVA MAHARAJ” are there.
Without SENSE CONTROL as AS SERIOUS AND SINCERE
AS DHRUVA MAHARAJ you can NOT attain Vaikuntha in
ONE LIFE time. ”
against Srila Prabhupada statement as it is:
“The LESSON from the life of Druva Maharaj is that
if ONE LIKES, one can attain Vaikuntha loka in one life,
without waiting for many other lifes.
My guru maharaj, Sri Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati
Goswami Prabhupada, used to say that EVERY ONE OF HIS
DISCIPLES COULD ATTAIN VAIKUNTHALOKA IN THIS
LIFE, WITHOUT WAITING FOR ANOTHER LIFE TO EXECUTE
DEVOTIONAL SERVICE.
One simply has to become AS SERIOUS AND SINCERE AS
Dhruva Maharaj; then it is quite possible to attain Vaikuntha
Loka and go back home back to Godhead in one life”
When the guru says yes it is possible , the ritviks says no it is not possible. That is
the definition of ritvik’s discipline and devotional practice.
“So better remain a foolish person perpetually to be directed by Guru Maharaja.
That is perfection. And as soon as he learns the Guru Maharaja is dead, ” Now I am
so advanced that I can kill my guru and I become guru.” Then he’s finished.
Room Conversation — August 16, 1976, Bombay. ”
These foolish ritvik have become blind through the influence of the two modes of
material nature, that is passion and ignorance. The third mode which is goodness
just don’t exist in their culture. Simply bogus, most of them.
HARE KRSNA
@RG: “Srila Prabhupada and Lord Caitanya have promoted this type of guru. ”
So far I learned that a pure devotee is never attacked by maya. Prabhupada: “But if actually one surrenders, then there is no question of attack of maya to him. All attack of maya finished.”
Now RG states a guru doesn’t have to be a pure devotee. Somehow when clicking into my vedabase this is not supported. Thanks for any help!
Prabhupada clearly says an acarya who is not a pure devotee is more or less a rascal.
Then there is the whole issue if Prabhupada actually authorised those legendary eleven to take up the position of sitting as full-fledged acarya, diksha-guru, on the vyasasana.
Apparently this was not the case and all those who are presently officiating as diksha guru are appointed by those legendary eleven who were not appointed by Prabhupada. E.g. Harikes appointed Sacinanda Swami, Bhaktivaibhava Swami, Smita Krishna Swami, Krishnaksetra Das, etc. to act as full-fledged diksha-gurus.
How one can be appointed by a charlatan? Prabhupada: “A guru can become guru when he’s ordered by his guru.”
However, how a charlatan like Harikes can appoint new gurus? De facto the whole lineage is broke? Thanks for clarification!
Raja Gopala dasa: SP never got the instruction from his guru to become an acharya, a diksa guru, never. Still he became one. The fact is that an acharya doens’t need anyone’s authorisation.
Mahesh: BOGUS!
Prabhupada: “Try to understand. Don’t go very speedily. A GURU CAN BECOME GURU WHEN HE’S ORDERED BY HIS GURU. That’s all. Otherwise nobody can become guru.
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture on Bhagavad-gita 7.2, Nairobi, October 28, 1975)
“Self-made guru cannot be guru. HE MUST BE AUTHORIZED BY THE BONA FIDE GURU. Then he’s guru. This is the fact…Similarly, bona fide guru means he must be authorized by the superior guru.”
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture on Nectar of Devotion, October 31. 1972)
Raja Gopala dasa: Srila Prabhupada is of course the founder acharya of Iskcon. But the only Iskcon guru?
Mahesh: Your concoction is making Srila Prabhupada as only founder acarya.
Srila Prabhupada is not ONLY ISKCON founder. There is a HYPHEN in between: Founder-Acarya this INDICATES that Srila Prabhupada is not just founder of ISKCON BUT he is ALSO its ACARYA.
The very FACT ISKCON founder(HYPHEN)acarya means ISKCON FOUNDER— ***AND***—- its ACARYA
Check ALL Srila Prabhupada’s books in FRONT it will have HYPHEN in between the words founder and acarya:
Yes! he is the ONLY ISKCON guru:
75-08-04. Letter: Madhudvisa:
The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I am in the initiator guru, and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This I want.
Would you be so kind as to enlighten us as to which part of ….
“I am the Spiritual Master of this institution, and all the members of the Society, they’re supposed to be my disciples. They follow the rules and regulations which I ask them to follow, and they are initiated by me spiritually.”(Srila Prabhupada Radio Interview, 12/3/1968)
is difficult to understand?
“Guru-mukha-padma-vakya, cittete koriya aikya, ara na koriho mane asa. Don’t think of any nonsense. Simply execute what your guru has said. That is success.”
(28th January, 1977, Room Conversation)
I hate to have be the one to keep pointing this fact out, especially to big Vedic pandits and scholars like Raja Gopala, but persons who are “engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children” — (A) Are not gurus, (B) Were not gurus, (C) Could not have been gurus. This is also known to any ten year old child in the USA, that debauchees are not ever God’s successor gurus. Only Raja Gopala and his GBC guru are bewildered and unaware of these facts.
And that means Raja and his GBC gurus are also bogus, since Raja and his gurus have supported the bogus GBC guru program, which has been mass producing these debauchees, drug addicts, and assorted fools artificially posing as gurus.
Raja Gopala has less discrimination than any ten year old child in the USA who knows, debauchees are not ever God’s successor gurus. This is simply not possible. God is pure and so His successor guru must also be pure. The fact is, a conditioned person with material attachments, who artificially claims to be the successor to God is not a guru but is — a liar. Sri Isopanisad says these liars posing as gurus are going to the lowest hells in the universe. Thats a fact.
And Raja and his guru have supported these liars. Nor has Raja understood the real issue all along, that fallen people were not ever gurus in the first place, which means, any ten year old child in the USA could defeat Raja Gopala, since any ten year old knows that the guru is like Jesus, he is pure, or else, he is not a guru, was not a guru, could not have been a guru. He is a liar.
Raja has totally avoided the actual point, gurus who are worshiped as pure devotees in the Vaishnava culture, or in the Jesus culture here in the USA, and not ever debauchees. That is because the mass of people understand that debauchees are not God’s successors, ever. Yes, any ten year old could easily defeat Raja and his guru. ys pd
=======================
[PADA: The GBC has created since 1977 many letters, documents, lectures, position papers etc. saying that gurus fall down into illicit sex, and in Jayadvaita’s paper he even says gurus fall down into illicit sex with men, women and children. I am not sure where in the Vedas we are told that worship of illicit sex gurus is going to take us back to God? Where is this stated? And if Raja’s guru does not even know that illicit sex is not found in our Vedic gurus, then what does he know? Even a ten year old child in the USA knows that gurus are not engaged in debauchery, but Raja’s guru has no clue? That means any ten year old child in the USA has a better idea of what are the qualities of guru than Raja and his guru have? ys pd]
@Mahesh Raja
From Asok Kumar, one of your ritvik friends, a few comments back:
“Prabhupada: […] Guru does not canvass. Sadhu does not canvass. He automatically, by his qualities, he becomes accepted. Yes.
(New York, December 26, 1966)”
Indeed, by his qualities he becomes accepted. The very fact is that Srila Prabhupada never got any instruction from his guru maharaja to become acharya, diksa guru, never. If you dispute this fact show evidence. You can’t.
Ritviks are sentimentalists with a popstar worship mentality. They will never come to realise even the brahma bhuta platform.
Only Srila Prabhupada, only Jesus Christ, only Mohammed, only Buddha means … only another Kali yuga religion.
Raja Gopala dasa:But there are unlimted Brahmajis left, with many, many heads. How can that be?
Mahesh: Just read. Cosmic Manifestation is not false it is TEMPORARY. There are Brahmas with MANY MANY heads BUT just because YOU have not seen them does NOT mean they do not exist. There are millions of Universes and each has Brahma with different number of heads:
Madhya 6.173 The Liberation of Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya
“The theory of illusion can be applied only when the living entity identifies himself with the body. As far as the cosmic manifestation is concerned, it cannot be called false, although it is certainly temporary.
PURPORT
The living entity is the eternal servant of Krsna. Being part and parcel of the Lord, he is constitutionally pure, but due to his contact with material energy, he identifies himself with either the gross or the subtle material body. Such identification is certainly false and constitutes the genuine platform of the theory of illusion. The living entity is eternal: he can never be subjected to the limits of time, as are his gross and subtle bodies. The cosmic manifestation is never false, but it is subject to change by the influence of the time factor. For a living entity to accept this cosmic manifestation as the field for his sense enjoyment is certainly illusory. This material world is the manifestation of the material energy of the Lord. This is explained by Krsna in the Bhagavad-gita (7.4):
bhumir apo ‘nalo vayuh
kham mano buddhir eva ca
ahankara itiyam me
bhinna prakrtir astadha
The material world is the inferior energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but it is not a fact that the Supreme Lord has been transformed into this material world. The Mayavadi philosophers, devoid of true understanding, have confused the theory of illusion and the theory of the cosmic manifestation by word jugglery. The theory of illusion can be applied to a person who identifies himself with the body. The living entity is the superior energy of the Supreme Lord, and the material world is the inferior energy. Both, however, are prakrti (energy). Although the energies are simultaneously one with the Lord and different from Him, the Lord never loses His personal form due to the transformation of His different energies.
SB 7.3.28 P Hiranyakasipu’ s Plan to Become Immortal
The Vedanta-sutra begins by declaring that the Absolute Person is the original source of all creation (janmady asya yatah). One may ask whether Lord Brahma is the Supreme Absolute Person. No, the Supreme Absolute Person is Krsna. Brahma receives his mind, intelligence, materials and everything else from Krsna, and then he becomes the secondary creator, the engineer of this universe. In this regard we may note that the creation does not take place accidentally, because of the explosion of a chunk. Such nonsensical theories are not accepted by Vedic students. The first created living being is Brahma, who is endowed with perfect knowledge and intelligence by the Lord. As stated in Srimad-Bhagavatam, tene brahma hrda ya adi-kavaye: although Brahma is the first created being, he is not independent, for he receives help from the Supreme Personality of Godhead through his heart. There is no one but Brahma at the time of creation, and therefore he receives his intelligence directly from the Lord through the heart. This has been discussed in the beginning of Srimad-Bhagavatam.
Lord Brahma is described in this verse as the original cause of the cosmic manifestation, and this applies to his position in the material world. There are many, many such controllers, all of whom are created by the Supreme Lord, Visnu. This is illustrated by an incident described in Caitanya-caritamrta. When the Brahma of this particular universe was invited by Krsna to Dvaraka, he thought that he was the only Brahma. Therefore when Krsna inquired from His servant which Brahma was at the door to visit, Lord Brahma was surprised. He replied that of course Lord Brahma, the father of the four Kumaras, was waiting at the door. Later, Lord Brahma asked Krsna why He had inquired which Brahma had come. He was then informed that there are millions of other Brahmas because there are millions of universes. Krsna then called all the Brahmas, who immediately came to visit Him. The catur-mukha Brahma, the four-headed Brahma of this universe, thought himself a very insignificant creature in the presence of so many Brahmas with so many heads. Thus although there is a Brahma who is the engineer of each universe, Krsna is the original source of all of them.
Lord Brahma is described in this verse as the original cause of the cosmic manifestation, and this applies to his position in the material world. There are many, many such controllers, all of whom are created by the Supreme Lord, Visnu. This is illustrated by an incident described in Caitanya-caritamrta. When the Brahma of this particular universe was invited by Krsna to Dvaraka, he thought that he was the only Brahma. Therefore when Krsna inquired from His servant which Brahma was at the door to visit, Lord Brahma was surprised. He replied that of course Lord Brahma, the father of the four Kumaras, was waiting at the door. Later, Lord Brahma asked Krsna why He had inquired which Brahma had come. He was then informed that there are millions of other Brahmas because there are millions of universes. Krsna then called all the Brahmas, who immediately came to visit Him. The catur-mukha Brahma, the four-headed Brahma of this universe, thought himself a very insignificant creature in the presence of so many Brahmas with so many heads. Thus although there is a Brahma who is the engineer of each universe, Krsna is the original source of all of them
SB 10.13.44 P The Stealing of the Boys and Calves by Brahma
The word nathah, which refers to Lord Brahma, is plural because there are innumerable universes and innumerable Brahmas. Brahma is but a tiny force. This was exhibited in Dvaraka when Krsna called for Brahma. One day when Brahma came to see Krsna at Dvaraka, the doorman, at Lord Krsna’s request, asked, “Which Brahma are you?” Later, when Brahma inquired from Krsna whether this meant that there was more than one Brahma, Krsna smiled and at once called for many Brahmas from many universes. The four-headed Brahma of this universe then saw innumerable other Brahmas coming to see Krsna and offer their respects. Some of them had ten heads, some had twenty, some had a hundred and some had a million heads. Upon seeing this wonderful exhibition, the four-headed Brahma became nervous and began to think of himself as no more than a mosquito in the midst of many elephants. Therefore, what can Brahma do to bewilder Krsna?
@Bhakta Janos,
Pure devotees can become bewildered by Krsna’s yogamaya capacity.
Srila Prabhupada joined Gandhi’s worldy political movement although he was raised in a vaisnava family. He also wanted to become the most wealthy man of India although he had already met his guru maharaja. He became defeated in his effort and admitted defeat.
Arjuna, although in sakhya rasa, got bewildered by Krsna’s yogamaya capacity because Krsna wanted to speak the BG.
Besides, the amara ajnaya guru is promoted by Srila Prabhupada and Lord Caitanya. Those who like to offend and insult; know the ones that promoted this type of guru, the very objects of your worship …
Perhaps you noticed that SP very much preached according to time, place and circumstance. The one day he would state the one thing to state the opposite the next day. Like in the Vedas, so many apparent contradictions. So it is very, very easy to quote to your personal convenience.
But intelligence is not really a feature of ritviks, so that creates a funny sampradaya. The ritualist sampradaya. Specifically designed for Kali yuga to stay deeply in the mentality of Kali.
What do I read, you initiate people in your culture of rituals/popstar worship? Who ordered you to do that? Political leader and millionaire Madhu Pandit perhaps? Did he get the order form Srila Prabhupada? Not? Weird situation …
I am very interested how the sadhana of the ritviks is. The ones that I know defnitely can’t stick to the four regulative principles of religion. Specifically sex life they don’t control. They are simply too lusty and don’t even want to better their lives. Popstar mentality, always unhandy.
“…the burden of proof is the obligation resting on a party in a trial to produce the evidence that will shift the conclusion away from the default position to one’s own position”
Raja Gopal, you have come to this forum accusing the Ritviks of being big offenders because they don’t recognise or acknowledge the ‘liberated acaryas’ you claim exist within ISKCON and thus fail to show them respect befitting their exalted position.
So the burden of proof now sits with you to back up this ‘supposition’ with some ‘hard fact’. If you fail to do this, (as you have so far failed to do) then really you are no better than one of those gullible townsfolk admiring the kings golden cloak and telling us all we must join in. You are pointing and saying “Oh look, look how wonderful it is” and then you condemn the little boy who says, “Umm, he looks kind of naked to me, I’m just not seeing it, and I can’t pretend that I do.” Proof please!
“I am an Iskcon devotee voluntarily and therefore I will never become an insult to my own intelligence.” Raja Gopal das.
JFS
@Mahesh Raja
You apparently don’t understand that these positions are there in your own material, temporary of false (just read BG 7.14) consciousness. Your own etherial, material body is a disconnected from Krshna micro universe, of course …
For instance:
8.16 From the highest planet in the material world (brahma or satyaloka) down to the lowest … … … never takes birth again.
To never take birth again means to reach at least the brahma bhuta platform. We’re doing spiritual life, Mahesh Raja, not some material projections, fantasies and getting stuck in some stories because you don’t have the brains to understand what is actually meant. The whole point is to get out of these fantasies.
So please wake up and start spiritual life!
Some important questions for ISKCON’s Raja Gopal das, his respected guru, (or anyone else who may be able to answer):
1) Was there anyone initiated by Srila Prabhupada (who’s name went into Prabhupada’s disciples book) who never actually met Prabhupada, never had his beads chanted on by Srila Prabhupada, and who’s spiritual name was not given directly by Srila Prabhupada?
2) What year did Srila Prabhupada personally give his disciple, (Raja Gopal’s guru) the instruction to begin initiating disciples?
3) If Raja Gopal’s guru did not get direct personal instruction from his spiritual master, (Srila Prabhupada) to begin initiations, then who authorised it, (and are they even in ISKCON still?).
4) How can you someone call themselves a grand-disciple of Srila Prabhupada if Srila Prabhupada never actually authorised that persons guru to become a guru?
5) How come we are told Srila Prabhupada can no longer give initiation because he is ‘back in the spiritual world’ but he can still authorise selected disciples to become guru’s?
@Puranjana das
@Like Jesus? Jesus was a great devotee but not a pure devotee. He said, while being crucified “oh my Lord why have thou left me? ” A pure devotee would never say that. He would say, in the liberated state, “oh my dear Lord, finally thou lower energy have left me, great!
I know of a faithtfull SP disciple who just kept on chanting while his throat was being sliced. He didn’t mind, just continued his bhakti, never complained.
But you don’t don’t understand these subjects Puranjana das, being a worldy moralist and a worldy generalist. You just like to accuse and be cynical, out of frustration, fault finding and a worldy mentality. You have no buddhi, no bhakti, just many, many dry and unproductive accusations.
Raja Gopala dasa says:
23. August 2013 at 3:58 pm
@Mahesh Raja
From Asok Kumar, one of your ritvik friends, a few comments back:
“Prabhupada: […] Guru does not canvass. Sadhu does not canvass. He automatically, by his qualities, he becomes accepted. Yes.
(New York, December 26, 1966)”
Mahesh: No contradiction. Just like Srila Prabhupada was accepted as Acarya BUT his Godbrothers were rejected. Soooooo simple to understand—and yet you can’t get it.
Raja Gopala dasa : Indeed, by his qualities he becomes accepted. The very fact is that Srila Prabhupada never got any instruction from his guru maharaja to become acharya, diksa guru, never. If you dispute this fact show evidence. You can’t.
Mahesh: you have been TRASHED. JUST admit it! ALL of your points are TOTALLY DEFEATED. All you are doing now is repeating “popstar”” Ritviks impersonalists” BLAH! BLAH! BLAH! And —– NOBODY CARES.
The philosophy is simple for the simple: CROOKED FOR THE CROOKS WHO DO NOT WANT TO ACCEPT Srila Prabhupada as THE ONLY DIKSA GURU FOR ISKCON FOR AS LONG AS HIS BOOKS ARE ON THE PLANET.
Note VERY carefully what Srila Prabhupada says: When my Guru Mahārāja ordered me. This is the guru-paramparā.
Srila Prabhupada Lecture on Bhagavad-gita 7.2, Nairobi, October 28, 1975)
Brahmānanda: He’s asking when did you become the spiritual leader of Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: When my Guru Mahārāja ordered me. This is the guru-paramparā.
Indian: Did it…
Prabhupāda: Try to understand. Don’t go very speedily. A guru can become guru when he’s ordered by his guru. That’s all. Otherwise nobody can become guru.
Ps just one other thing – (guru parampara) disciplic succession of ACARYAS : not of conditioned souls voted in by bogus GBC:
SB 3.29.17
In Bhagavad-gītā, Thirteenth Chapter, it is clearly stated that one should execute devotional service and advance on the path of spiritual knowledge by accepting the ācārya. Ācāryopāsanam: one should worship an ācārya, a spiritual master who knows things as they are. The spiritual master must be in the disciplic succession from Kṛṣṇa. The predecessors of the spiritual master are his spiritual master, his grand spiritual master, his great-grand spiritual master and so on, who form the disciplic succession of ācāryas.
Why I write in a CAPITAL letter or some body else does is that people like SG and Raja Gopala, you never never never ever had answered the questions I put forth to you and your co. associates. Your answer are always out of context such as ; ” Why do you use the question mark and capital letters so often? A sign of passion perhaps? Passion is unhealthy, it leads to misery. I read your comments but don’t agree on your analysis and conclusions” in order to avoid the real focus of discussion on the subject matter. That is why you and your associates continue endlessly to protect and promote your non-sense misleading statements which has been refuted completely every time you make an attempt for justification on your side.
Why I say that it is because I did answer all of your questions and in turn you never address the issue and/or ANSWER THE QUESTIONS I put forth to YOU and your associates. So what is the use of your writing, the same non-sense over and over which has been refuted many times on this forum which I find a total waste of my time.
You are hiding in lies and misleading everyone under the disguise of following Srila Prabhupada.
READ WITH RAPT ATTENTION, the comments Mahesh Raja Prabhu has made clearly in his post about your misleading statements.
Therefore, I suggest that it is better for you to fly the kite with your associates instead of writing the chewing of the chewed non-sense comments which are full of personal motivation like your BOGUS
amara ajnara guru who is accepting disciples and you happen to be one of them in the Organization of HDG. Srila Prabhupada who has never authorized any one of his disciples as a SUCCESSOR as explained vividly in my comments to which you passionately refuse to answer it.
Hari BOL.
1. Raja Gopala dasa says:
20. August 2013 at 4:14 pm
@Puranjana das
btw, Srila Prabhupada, a descendant of a vaisnava family, turned into a karmi being enchanted by Gandhi, was a grhasta who wasn’t able to deliver his children. He also had serious health problems for a least a few decades. Further, he lowered by 75%! the standard of chanting 64 rounds, set by his guru maharaja. He also sniffed tobacco on a daily basis and sent money to his former wife when he already had taken sannyasa.
Hare Krsna Prabhu’s
All Glories to His Divine Grace, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada.
Please accept my humble obeisances.
All Glories to the Prabhupadanugas!!!
To: Raja Gopala das
Raja Gopala das, how dare you to criticize Srila Prabhupada, that He was a Karmi?
Your burned out hard disk brain is not working. Do you have any proof for this!!! Or did your guru told you that?
And you are calling your self a grand disciple!!! Shame on you!!! And what is your problem if we worship Srila Prabhupada as our Guru, it seems you are envious of Srila Prabhupada?
Didn’t you read the book Krsna the Supreme Personality of Godhead, that a Pure Devotee, a Mahabhagavata can deliver thousands or millions of condition souls!!!
Srila Prabhupada had the whole world dancing to the Holy names of Srimati Radharani and Lord Krsna!!! He is the most dearest devotee of Srimati Radharani.
Watch out what you are doing, otherwise, your guru, can’t save you!!!
Can your guru do this? Or don’t you have a guru, and your burned out hard disk brain, can’t digest the unedited teachings of Srila Prabhupada!!!
You know what Raja Gopal das(prabhu)( maybe you don’t know or your guru didn’t told you, what the name;”das”, means). Stop this, bow your head to His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada and ask your forgiveness, He will forgive you, but I don’t think The Supreme Personality of Godhead will forgive you.
I feel so sorry for you, that your tiny little brain (burned out) delivers comments, what the real vaisnavas are saying, you don’t even read what they are writing!!!
Dear Prabhupadanugas, thank You a million times, that You all, are opening the blind eyes for us the neophytes, who were donating and donating and, thinking it was all for Lord Krsna and Srila Prabhupada!!!
Please go on with this website you have many followers, and they read it everyday. Dear Prabhupadanugas,( who don’t comment), I have a plea, please come forward and together, due to the mercy of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Srila Prabhupada, we will have a real ISKCON for ten thousand Years, it is also for our younger generation.
All Glories to His Divine Grace, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada.
Please accept my most fallen and humble obeisances.
Always Your servant,
dasianudasi
Dear Prabhus!
Right, this is serious offense, to investigate Prabhupada’s past and conclude he is an ordinary human being.
“One who thinks that the worshipable Deity in the temple is made of wood or stone, one who sees a Vaishnava guru as an ordinary human being, or one who materially conceives of a Vaishnava as belonging to a particular caste is naraki, a resident of hell. ” (Krishna Book, 10.3.46, purport)
Is a resident of hell. So obviously present ISKCONites are doing just that. Because their neophyte gurus are full of mistakes they feel impelled to drag Prabhupada down on the same level as their fallen living gurus.
This doesn’t look like Vaishnava rather these “nice gentlemen” have boarded the ISKCON ship because of material enrichment – fat loot. Whenever they try to philosophically explain why present ISKCON gurus are bona fide and genuine they become hopelessly entangled in contradictions, doors are slammed.
So what is it all about? As soon ISKCON’s new gurus are considered as bona fide they are Prabhupada’s legal successors, true heirs, lawful owners. In other words – it is all about to capture ISKCON’s properties.
There are for example 50 properties all over Europe. Collected by poor hardworking Sankirtan devotees. Today’s worth: 100 million US dollars. USA might be three times more. If you check the whole world it is 1 bn US dollars just those buildings.
This is what it is all about. Therefore they sue Madhu Pandit, they want the keys of all Bangalore temples. Of course they are not able to distribute daily 1,4 mio plates of first class prasadam, distribute Prabhupada’s books, preach bhagavat-dharma or decorate the temple like it is done by Bangalore’s Prabhupadanugas. Deity worship of Krishna Balaram Mandir and Mayapur Chandradaya Mandir is done by Gaudiya-matha, any more questions?
So when things looks complicated – why ISKCONites cannot get it that a spiritual master is a pure devotee and authorized by previous guru – don’t look any further, it is all about money – how to turn Prabhupada’s temples into Hindu cash cows. Zero preaching (Bhaktivedanta Institute closed), zero spiritual knowledge, zero Gaudiya-Vaishnava standard of purity.
@Nandanidevidasi
“Raja Gopala das, how dare you to criticize Srila Prabhupada, that He was a Karmi?
Your burned out hard disk brain is not working. Do you have any proof for this!!! Or did your guru told you that?
And you are calling your self a grand disciple!!! Shame on you!!! And what is your problem if we worship Srila Prabhupada as our Guru, it seems you are envious of Srila Prabhupada?”
Don’t be such a crybaby. When Sri Krsna wants to put a pure devotee in some conditional circumstance He does that. He did it with his friend Arjuna also, didn’t He?
Why would I be envious of Srila Prabhupada? He is my most worshipable grand guru. I worship all great and pure vaisnavas. And Sri Krsna btw, since they are always together.
You are rejecting the guru parampara, you are rejecting Srila Prabhupad’s instructions. You are rejecting the great disciples Srila Prabhupada made manifest. You make just another Kali yuga religion with your “only Srila Prabhupada”. You are the one who should be ashamed.
Your worship of Srila Prabhupada is just popstar worship. That’s why you will never realise Sri Krsna or the wonderful qualities of the pure vaisnava Srila Prabhupada. Just go on insulting and offending and being a materialistic crybaby with your “only Srila Prabhupada”.
@Bhaktin Rose
I am not at all concluding Srila Prabhupda is an “ordinary being”. He is my most worshipable grand guru and at least a sakti avesha avatara. Can you read and quote this also? But indeed, I am not a sentimentalistic crybaby that lives on the kanistha platform and projects and demands this unto the rest of the world. Are Salafism and fake Christianity your great examples perhaps?
Like small children ritviks like “quoting out of context” and very much “selective quoting” so that you can start crying. Well, suit yourself, of course.
btw, It seems you are very, very, very much enchanted by money. Funny.
@Mahesh Raja
Srila Prabhupada received instruction from his guru maharaja to preach the message of Lord Caitanya in the English speaking countries.
He never received instruction to become acharya or diksa guru. Did he? No. Actually, we are very much a siksa parampara line. But if you don’t realise the content of sastra what can you understand?
The great acharyas attract conditioned souls because of their purity. Out of mercy and fun they act as acharya and diksa guru. But what do you know about this all, trying (just trying, nothing more) to kill the guru parampara?
Popstar worship mentality, always unhandy.
@Just-a-fruit-seller says:
23. August 2013 at 9:33 pm
Some important questions for ISKCON’s Raja Gopal das, his respected guru, (or anyone else who may be able to answer):
1) Was there anyone initiated by Srila Prabhupada (who’s name went into Prabhupada’s disciples book) who never actually met Prabhupada, never had his beads chanted on by Srila Prabhupada, and who’s spiritual name was not given directly by Srila Prabhupada?
Definitely, SP gave instruction to eleven of his disciples to execute that ritvik function while he was in his body but seriously ill and had the idea/conviction he would recover.
2) What year did Srila Prabhupada personally give his disciple, (Raja Gopal’s guru) the instruction to begin initiating disciples?
Like SP himself never received that instruction, my guru never received that instruction as far as I know. Diksa initiation is a formality, as you perhaps in the mean time know. Siksa is for spiritual elevation, and what it is all about in terms of being purified.
3) If Raja Gopal’s guru did not get direct personal instruction from his spiritual master, (Srila Prabhupada) to begin initiations, then who authorized it, (and are they even in ISKCON still?).
I authorized my initiation by accepting it.
But probably more in accordance with your receptive qualities; SP explained his disciples, you all become guru, like father like son. Qualified sons, of course. And quite a few of his HDG disciples couldn’t go beyond the amara ajnaya stage, became exposed through time. But not all, and that is my issue with the ritviks.
4) How can you someone call themselves a grand-disciple of Srila Prabhupada if Srila Prabhupada never actually authorized that person’s guru to become a guru?
Already answered. You are not able to kill the guru parampara. And more to the point; when I am fully qualified I perhaps will initiate, when aspiring disciples request me to do that humble service.
5) How come we are told Srila Prabhupada can no longer give initiation because he is ‘back in the spiritual world’ but he can still authorize selected disciples to become gurus?
We have a guru parampara, remember. And like I already explained, you are not able to kill it.
When a disciple takes instruction from SP through his books, murti and is able to reach Goloka Vrndavana with it it’s perfect. The one route doesn’t exclude the other, imho.
In general, however, one needs a living guru. The ritviks I know certainly do not understand sastra and are attached to mundane sex life among other things like offending great vaisnavas.
Ritviks worship SP as “only He”, like “only Jesus Christ”, “only Mohammed”, “only He, The Buddha”. Indeed, only another Kali yuga religion. And this is definitely not what SP wants. SP wants his disciples, grand disciples, great grand disciples and so forth to get to know and realise Sri Krsna. THAT is the only function of the guru.
Amar Puri says:
24. August 2013 at 12:55 am
AP — “people like SG and Raja Gopala, you never never never ever had
answered the questions I put forth to you and your co. associates.
Your answer are always out of context ……”
SG — So, what you are saying is that your answers are within context of
our question. Lets take a look at your answers.
For example :
SG question — All those initiations that has been taking place in Iskcon Bangalore, Singapore, Uk, US etc, by those so called ritvik initiators, were they appointed by Srila Prabhupada to accept devotees and perform initiations on his behalf?
AP answer — ONLY A SINCERE AND SERIOUS FOLLOWER OF SRILA PRABHUPADA CAN BRING THE NEW BHAKTA TO THE CLOSEST TO SRILA PRABHUPADA BECAUSE BOTH HAVE TO BE DEDICATED SELFLESSLY IN THE SERVICE OF THE MISSION OF HDG SRILA PRABHUPADA WORLD WIDE. THEREFORE, SRILA PRABHUPADA ACCEPTS SUCH SINCERE AND SERIOUS DEVOTEES REGARDLESS OF THEIR APPOINTMENTS TO PERFORM INITIATION ON HDG BEHALF.
( Any quotes, reference from Sastra, Guru, Sadhu to support the above
statement. Nothing! Create your own ritvik sastras as you go along.)
SG question — If yes, show us some proof with their names in it, a letter, a directive or a document with Srila Prabhupada authorized signature similar to the July 9th 1977 letter.
AP answer — BASED ON THE ABOVE MENTIONED FACTS , SG ON THE CONTRARY, YOU HAVE TO PROVE THAT WHY SRILA PRABHUPADA WOULD NOT ACCEPT THE SERVICE PERFORMED BY SUCH SINCERE AND SERIOUS FOLLOWERS OF HDG SRILA PRABHUPADA???????????
SG — While you may think that you have answered within the context of our
question, we say you and that Mahesh Raja bogus yogi are fools who do not know how to read and understand the question asked and answer the them accordingly.
Either that or both of you understand the questions perfectly well but pretend not to and give some nonsense answers. For if the truthfully answered it will then hurt the ritviks and their devious post samadhi ritvik program.
Another example :
Raja Gopala dasa : Indeed, by his qualities he becomes accepted. The very fact is that Srila Prabhupada never got any instruction from his guru maharaja to become acharya, diksa guru, never. If you dispute this fact show evidence. You can’t.
Mahesh: you have been TRASHED. JUST admit it! ALL of your points are TOTALLY DEFEATED. All you are doing now is repeating “popstar”” Ritviks impersonalists” BLAH! BLAH! BLAH! And —– NOBODY CARES.
SG — Is the above suppose to be an answer ? The question asks for proof and this fool Mahesh Raja, he talks TRASH.
Raja Gopal has explained and accepts Srila Prabhupada as an acarya by his manifested qualities. What he is asking is some proof in the form of letter from
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura that clearly states that Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami has been appointed as an acarya by him or a quote from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura where he has openly stated that he has appointed Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami as the next acarya or as an acarya.
What is that this fool Mahesh Raja says quote ” CROOKED FOR THE CROOKS.”
Yes, he is right but trouble is he do not realize that he is that crook. And he goes on to quote the below conversation.
” Srila Prabhupada Lecture on Bhagavad-gita 7.2, Nairobi, October 28, 1975)
Brahmananda: He’s asking when did you become the spiritual leader of K???a consciousness?
Prabhupada: When my Guru Maharaja ordered me. This is the guru-parampara.
Indian: Did it…
Prabhupada: Try to understand. Don’t go very speedily. A guru can become guru when he’s ordered by his guru. That’s all. Otherwise nobody can become guru.”
If we were to ask this fool MR how is the above quote proof to the question asked, this ritvik fool would reply by saying that,” Srila Prabhupada said so and that is good enough for us.”
We have now become all too familiar with this ritvik fool’s answers.
Here is a quote from Srila Prabhupadas in his own words :
“Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Rupanuga 4/28/74:
“In the latter days of my Guru Maharaja he was very disgusted. Actually, he left this world earlier, otherwise he would have continued to live for more years. Still he requested his disciples to form a strong Governing body for preaching the cult of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. He never recommended anyone to be acarya of the Gaudiya Math. But Sridhara Maharaja is responsible for disobeying this order of Guru Maharaja, and he and others who are already dead unnecessarily thought that there must be one acarya. If Guru Maharaja could have seen someone who was qualified at that time to be acarya he would have mentioned. Because on the night before he passed away he talked of so many things, but never mentioned an acarya. His idea was talked of so many things, but never mentioned an acarya….”
HARE KRSNA
Raja Gopala dasa: But what do you know about this all, trying (just trying, nothing more) to kill the guru parampara?
Mahesh: guru parampara is NOT made-up of CONDITIONED SOUL BABOONS VOTED IN AS DIKSA GURUS BY BOGUS GBC. We Prabhupadanugas ONLY REQUEST THE DEVOTEES WORSHIP OUR BONAFIDE DIKSA GURU SRILA PRABHUPADA: Lunatics CAN worship their OWN KIND —AND GO TO HELL:
Srimad-Bhagavatam : Canto 6: “Prescribed Duties for Mankind” : SB 6.7: Indra Offends His Spiritual Master, Brhaspati. : SB 6.7.14 : TRANSLATION :
Leaders who have fallen into ignorance and who mislead people by directing them to the path of destruction [as described in the previous verse] are, in effect, boarding a stone boat, and so too are those who blindly follow them. A stone boat would be unable to float and would sink in the water with its passengers. Similarly, those who mislead people go to hell, and their followers go with them.
Note Disciplic succession of ACARYAS: NOT conditioned soul baboons voted in by bogus GBC as Diksa guru.
SB 3.29.17
In Bhagavad-gītā, Thirteenth Chapter, it is clearly stated that one should execute devotional service and advance on the path of spiritual knowledge by accepting the ācārya. Ācāryopāsanam: one should worship an ācārya, a spiritual master who knows things as they are. The spiritual master must be in the disciplic succession from Kṛṣṇa. The predecessors of the spiritual master are his spiritual master, his grand spiritual master, his great-grand spiritual master and so on, who form the disciplic succession of ācāryas.
Note: Gaps do NOT hamper. We have to pick up the prominent acaryas, and follow from him. CURRENT PROMINENT IS SRILA PRABHUPADA: WE FOLLOW HIM. ONLY lunatics who worship CONDITIONED SOUL baboons AS DIKSA GURU manufactured from BOGUS GBC think this is kill of parampara:
1968 Correspondence : April : Letter to: Dayananda — San Francisco 12 April, 1968 : 68-04-12 :
Regarding parampara system: there is nothing to wonder for big gaps. Just like we belong to the Brahma Sampradaya, so we accept it from Krishna to Brahma, Brahma to Narada, Narada to Vyasadeva, Vyasadeva to Madhva, and between Vyasadeva and Madhva there is a big gap. But it is sometimes said that Vyasadeva is still living, and Madhva was fortunate enough to meet him directly. In a similar way, we find in the Bhagavad-gita that the Gita was taught to the sungod, some millions of years ago, but Krishna has mentioned only three names in this parampara system—namely, Vivasvan, Manu, and Iksvaku; and so these gaps do not hamper from understanding the parampara system. We have to pick up the prominent acaryas, and follow from him. There are many branches also from the parampara system, and it is not possible to record all the branches and sub-branches in the disciplic succession. We have to pick up from the authority of the acharya in whatever sampradaya we belong to.
Note: So although a physical body is not present, the vibration should be accepted as the presence of the spiritual master, vibration. What we have heard from the spiritual master, that is living.
90113LE.LA Lectures
We are concerned, of course, because the spiritual master, those who are acaryas, their body is not considered as materiel. Arcye sila-dhir gurusu nara-matir. Just like the statue of Krsna, to consider that “This is a stone…” Similarly, arcye sila-dhir gurusu na… Gurusu means those who are acaryas, to accept their body as ordinary man’s body, this is denied in the sastras. So although a physical body is not present, the vibration should be accepted as the presence of the spiritual master, vibration. What we have heard from the spiritual master, that is living.
Note: There is no difference between the spiritual master’s instructions and the spiritual master himself.
Adi 1.35 The Spiritual Masters
The service of the spiritual master is essential. If there is no chance to serve the spiritual master directly, a devotee should serve him by remembering his instructions. There is no difference between the spiritual master’s instructions and the spiritual master himself. In his absence, therefore, his words of direction should be the pride of the disciple.
Raja Gopala dasa: I perhaps will initiate, when aspiring disciples request me to do that humble service.
Mahesh: lineage of BABOONS
CFL Life Comes From Life
Srila Prabhupada. Yes, that is stated in Srimad-Bhagavatam: sva-vid-varahostra-kharaih samstutah purusah pasuh. This verse indicates that those who praise men who are like animals are no better than dogs, hogs, camels and asses. Sva means “dog,” vid-varaha means “stool-eating hog,” ustra means “camel,” and khara means “ass.”
@Raja Gopala: “But not all, and that is my issue with the ritviks”
Mr. Raja Gopala and Dr.SG
Prabhupada’s ISKCON movement is not an experimental station, nor a testing laboratory nor a research center!
You got your chance since 35 years to produce “as good as God acaryas” – thats what your gurus demand – to be worshiped “as good as God” (absolutism).
Meanwhile you produced 43 failing “God’s direct representatives” what turned Prabhupada’s movement into a world wide laughing stock. Hare Krishna became a term used for weirdos, nutcases, lunatics. Thousands of betrayed disciples who ended up traumatized, marked for life, fleeced, ripped off, no recompense, derided by people in general.
Now you demand that ritviks should bow down and pay respect to those voted in experimental gurus who are not yet completely fallen? Are you serious, are you inmate of a lunatic asylum? Why you don’t go out to distribute Prabhupada’s books on Saturday morning?
If your gurus fall down left and right why call them spiritual master, acarya? Are you confused? Call them priest and everything will be all right.
ys
Atmavidya Das
@Mahesh Raja
How do you know, what’s your qualification? For you there is “only He”, only Srila Prabhupada. You don’t even understand that Srila Prabhupada want devotees to become liberated and fully realised in Krsna bhakti.
Even you, I suppose. Despite your angry end ignorant nature. btw You only insult yourself with your nasty words, not anyone else.
@Atmavidya Das
First of all you don’t order me, hopefully you can understand that.
Secondly, of course mistakes have been and are being made within Iskcon. But Srila Prabhupada wanted to have a GBC and wanted us all to become guru. Qualified guru’s of course.
So if you love to insult and accuse perhaps also insult and accuse the one you worship so very exclusively since Srila Prabhupada gave many, many, many big orders to at that time very young, mainly US vaisnavas from a very, very different culture.
Srila Prabhupada gave “shoes too big” to his disciples, that he himself admitted. Some of his faithfull disciples luckily fit these shoes nowadays very nicely.
There are many, many nice, and sometimes most developed and beyond vaisnavas within Iskcon. We also have envious cheaters within our society, of course. That’s Krsna’s mercy since we shouldn’t have a mundane vision of whatever, including Iskcon.
Perhaps, if you like, become conscious of Sri Krshna. Not only inside the temple, mr Atmavidya das. Or only toward your formal guru. Because with that you block yourself completely from getting realised in Krsna bhakti.
Specifically when you start to generalise and with that start insulting very developed, even liberated vaisnavas. That causes very bad luck. In this case, for you.
@SG
Clear observation and analysis, SG. Very nice.
Sometimes, I feel what will happen to book distributors who are distributing changed books and also are initiated by unbonafide gurus?
We have to follow liberated soul. That is the main point. We have to follow the head of institution, not so-called disciples.
JAI SRILA A.C. BHAKTIVEDANTA SWAMI PRABHUPADA
@Atmavidya Das
“Those who are not yet completely fallen”.
Big, big mistake mr. Atmavidya das. Although, to be honest, most probably more will be exposed through time only to be amara ajnaya guru’s. Promoted for by Srila Prabhupada and Lord Caitanya btw.
You were talking of a lunatic asylum in your tendency to insult. Wel, perhaps first come to understand guru parampara and all of its branches and with that perhaps get cleared of your own arrogance and lunacy.
You don’t have to offer respect to anyone, that’s of course completely up to you. But a vaisnava actually offers respect to everyone. Even to his biggest enemy since the supersoul is also present in such a person.
It’s always wonderful to remain humble. Do you actually understand what “humility” means?
Srila Prabhupada explaines this characteristic very nicely in his purport of BG 13.8.
It’s a most powerful quality although it seems to be completely opposite for the mundane nitwits. Instead of distributing to others perhaps study BG As It Is yourself, properly. As a yogi, in love and devotion. Of course.
All of the GBC gurus support their hundreds of position papers since 1978 saying that gurus fall down into illicit sex. Therefore Raja Gopala and his gurus have no idea what a guru is. A person who is falling down into debauchery is not, was not, could not have been, a guru. Jayadvaita’s position paper even says gurus fall into illicit sex with men, women and children, which means, Raja Gopala’s gurus are even less advanced than my trash collecting man, because he does not engage in these levels of debauched behaviors. In other words, my trash man has a higher standard that Raja Goapala’s guru parampara. ys pd
@RajaGopalaDas: “Do you actually understand what “humility” means?
Insult? When someone tells you, listen you atheistic disbeliever, Prabhupada is not dead, he’s fully alive, your reply: this is an insult…
When Christians say, Jesus is alive, Raja Gopala: this is an insult, for me Jesus is dead as a dodo.
So this is your realization. You use your materialistic eye-sight and conclude that Prabhupada is dead, is no more, there has to be a successor who is alive.
Ritviks say, no, Prabhupada is fully present we can go on as ever, nothing has to be changed.
Reminds of Prabhupada’s booklet, WHO IS CRAZY? Prabhupada explains that materialists accuse us of being crazy, whereas transcendentalists argue, materialists are crazy. So who is right?
In our case if this is your level of realization that Prabhupada was a former unsuccessful Bengali businessman who took to preaching in NY because his business collapsed and who carried a snuffbox at his beadbag pocket because chanting Hare Krishna didn’t give him the kick, then yes, for you Prabhupada is dead as a doornail.
Only problem, there won’t be mutual agreement with realized devotees. This forum is about Prabhupada is fully present. Plz ask your GBC appointed guru if he also figures that Prabhupada is dead?
This is serious!
Then we can chalk out a special program how to elevate you and your guru to realize that Prabhupada is fully alive, fully present, ready to properly initiate new devotees.
Guaranteed, no hodgepodge diksha where you later on require re-initiation from another GBC voted-in guru.
ys ad
@Puranjana das
My guru is a most faithful, self realised disciple of Srila Prabhupada. Your cynicism, insults and generalisations cannot touch one nano second.
More important for me is whether I myself have become Krsna conscious. Since I am a faithful follower of my guru’s instructions I have become conscious of Sri Krshna. Therefore I am free from mundane sex life, for years, although I am a vaisnava grhasta.
How many ritviks are free from sex life? Most probably not many, if any, since they only worship Srila Prabhupada as if HDG is some popstar.
No humility means not even understanding the brahma bhuta stage, what to speak of realising it. Arrogance and mundane sex life destroy humility. Ritviks have no humility, are most mundane worshippers. Their fundament is “being against”.
imho You are just a disappointed, cynical person, that’s all. No realisations, no humility. Just dry and disgruntled.
1. Raja Gopala dasa says:
24. August 2013 at 10:12 am
@Nandanidevidasi
“Raja Gopala das, how dare you to criticize Srila Prabhupada, that he was a karmi?
Your burned out hard disk brain is not working. Do you have any proof for this!!! Or did your guru told you that?
And you are calling your self a grand disciple!!! Shame on you!!! And what is your problem if we worship Srila Prabhupada as our Guru, it seems you are envious of Srila Prabhupada?”
Don’t be such a crybaby. When Sri Krsna wants to put a pure devotee in some conditional circumstance He does that. He did it with his friend Arjuna also, didn’t He?
Why would I be envious of Srila Prabhupada? He is my most worshipable grand guru. I worship all great and pure vaisnavas. and Sri Krsna btw, since they are always together.
You are rejecting the guru parampara, you are rejecting Srila Prabhupad’s instructions. You are rejecting the great disciples Srila Prabhupada made manifest. You make just another Kali yuga religion with your “only Srila Prabhupada”. You are the one who should be ashamed.
Your worship of Srila Prabhupada is just popstar worship. That’s why you will never realize Sri Krsna or the wonderful qualities of the pure Vaisnava Srila Prabhupada. Just go on insulting and offending and being a materialistic crybaby with your “only Srila Prabhupada”.
To Baby Raj Gopala das:
Raja Gopal Das, I’m not a crybaby, it seems that you are the one, read for your self what you wrote.
First you wrote, “He is my most worshipable grandguru”.
And then you wrote:
“Your worship of Srila Prabhupada is just popstar worship, that’s why you will never realize Sri Krsna or the wonderful qualities of the pure Vaisnava Srila Prabhupada”.
Furthermore, like a baby you wrote; I worship all great and pure Vaisnavas, And Sri Krsna, btw, since they are always together. I know that, Srila Prabhupada has said; if you say Krsna all the pure devotees are included”,
Which great and pure Vaisnavas are you writing about? Clarify that and don’t come with some Hodge, Podge writing.
A pure Vaisnava has 26 qualities, is their someone you know, who has all these qualities, except Srila Prabhupada!!!
I don’t have it, maybe you?
How do you know that I’m rejecting the Guruparampara? Do you mean the bogus Guru’s? Who are using the legacy of Srila Prabhupada for their comfortable life. Are they the Guruparampara and the pure Vaisnavas? Yes I’m rejecting them, so what!!!
Stop your writing, what happened with you, did this Kaliya snake bite you?
In another writing you are saying, we must have respect for everyone, do you have that?
I’m not insulting no one, and I don’t feel that I’m offending, my most beloved Srila Prabhupada.
This is the slogan for years from the ITS GONE Movement (ISKCON), offending, insulting and vaisnavaparadha!!! Making the neophytes, become so scared, that they even commit suicide!!!
How about the bogus gurus, what did they do with Srila Prabhupada, they are the big offenders, not me!!!
Go baby Raj Gopala das, sit down in a corner with your pure Vaisnava guru and cry like a baby. You didn’t even understand, why I wrote “delivers“, go waste your time on your pure guru’s website, fools will listen to you baby Raj Gopala das.
Hare Krsna and thank you for your blessing, that I will never realize Sri Krsna or the wonderful qualities of the pure vaisnava Srila Prabhupada.
But I know for myself, Srila Prabhupada is my: ”janme, janme prabhu sei”.
All Glories to His Divine Grace, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada!!!
dasianudasi
P.S. Why should I be ashamed? Shame on you!!!
@Atmavidya Das
Where do I state Srila Prabhupada is dead? Is there something wrong with your brain? Indeed, apart from lacking humility if you at all know what it is you also have a lying tendency. Fits the ritvik mentality very nicely is my expierience here on this forum.
I have received a lot of info about you people. You gave me heaps of info on where you stand, how you analyse, think, communicate.
And I can use it all very nicely in the service to my diksa/siksa guru, my grand guru HDG Srila Prabhupada and Sri Krshna. Thanks!
Hare Krishna to all Vaishnavas,
PAMHO, AGTSP
I have seen hot debate as a bird eye view. Here I would like request to all of you sincere souls, please engage yourself, how we can establish varnasramadharma, a great desire of our beloved Srila Prabhupada. Then you will see all problems automatic will solve, whether ritvik or not.
Your servant, BVD, Jaisalmer, Rajasthan, India.
@Atmavidya Das
“When a disciple takes instruction from SP through his books, murti and is able to reach Goloka Vrndavana with it it’s perfect. The one route doesn’t exclude the other, imho.”
Above I mentioned in connection with the observation that in general one needs a “living guru”. So for your tiny understanding and passion for fault finding; I mention SP can give the highest although he himself is not physically present anymore among us.
I know for a fact that in general those that do not take initiation from a physically present guru won’t reach SP and won’t reach Sri Krshna and won’t even reach brahma bhuta realisation. One category: ritviks, the worshippers with a popstar worship mentality.
In general one needs direct, personal association, instruction and some chastisement, out of love. SP can’t offer these relations, his faithful disciples and grand disciples can. HDG SP ordered them to do so.
SG and Raja Gopala wants proof as the writing of SG says ; ” Raja Gopal has explained and accepts Srila Prabhupada as an acarya by his manifested qualities. What he is asking is some proof in the form of letter from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura that clearly states that Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami has been appointed as an acarya by him or a quote from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura where he has openly stated that he has appointed Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami as the next acarya or as an acarya.”
Here is the warning from HDG. Srila Prabhupada ;
Prabhupada: “Try to understand. Don’t go very speedily. A GURU CAN BECOME GURU WHEN HE’S ORDERED BY HIS GURU. That’s all. Otherwise nobody can become guru.
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture on Bhagavad-gita 7.2, Nairobi, October 28, 1975)
Yes! HDG Srila Prabhupada is the ONLY ISKCON guru. Who says it ? It is Srila Prabhupada Himself says so ;
75-08-04. Letter: Madhudvisa:
The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I am in the initiator guru, and you should be the instructor guru ( here is described who is amara ajnara guru not accepting own disciples like SG and Raja Gopala promoting and protecting his deviant guru in Iskcon ) by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This I want. ”
SG, RAJA GOPALA CO., do you accept the above statements of Srila Prabhupada ?????
NO, you do not obviously. That is why you are making so much non sense noise because you people do not accept and follow the instructions of Srila Prabhupada.
“I am the Spiritual Master of this institution, and all the members of the Society, they’re supposed to be my disciples. They follow the rules and regulations which I ask them to follow, and they are initiated by me spiritually.”(Srila Prabhupada Radio Interview, 12/3/1968)
Do you accept the above statement of Srila Prabhupada, SG, Raja Gopala co. ???????
Does your self realized guru accept the above said statement of Srila Prabhupada ?????
Oh hell, NO, NOT AT ALL. That is why you people are making non-sense noise of all sorts to mislead massive innocent people all in the name of Srila Prabhupada.
“Guru-mukha-padma-vakya, cittete koriya aikya, ara na koriho mane asa. Don’t think of any nonsense. Simply execute what your guru has said. That is success.”
(28th January, 1977, Room Conversation)
Does your voted in self realized amara ajnara guru gbc execute the order of HDG. Srila Prabhupada ???
Did Srila Prabhupada authorize your self realized guru to be His bona fide SUCCESSOR, SG, and Raja gopala co ???
Did Srila Prabhupada replace His Guru Maharaja HDG. SBSSGT in His Gaudiya Math Organization to become the Acaraya and continue in HDG. SBSSGT as a Successor in His Gaudiya Math ???
If the answer is NO, then, why your voted in self realized amara ajnara guru gbc is replacing HDG. Srila Prabhupada’s Iskcon world wide ??????
Why you and your gurus are accepting such position to which Srila Prabhupada never never authorize as His SUCCESSOR in his Iskcon ?????
Think about it with rapt attention for a while and then answer with common sense with all the questions to form a meaningful discussion for the benefit of ALL participating in this discussion.
Hope it meets you all well.
Hari BOL.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
pamho agtACBSP.
there is lots of gossip regarding the fall down of HG Mahanidhi Swami, i mean so many barking dogs are still barking, i heard from reliable source, vrija basis friends, that he just left Iskcon to do babaji life at Sri Radha Kunda.
I don’t blame him because present Iskcon is polluted by material politics so he has well done in one sense by leaving everything in order to surrender at Sri Radha Kunda as the best place for nitya bhagavata sevaya.
Anyway, i wish the best to all the devotees of the Lord and the worst to all the demons who are still going against the order of our guru maharaj, agtSP
ys haribol
Raja Gopal it’s nice that you praise your new friend SG, and it’s nice that you think SG has given such ‘clear observation and analysis’. However it seems in your desperation to adhere to “The enemy of my enemy has become my friend” principle you are courting a very odd bed-fellow indeed. No offence to SG, as he has a right to share his understanding of ISKCON just like the rest of us, but Raja Gopal – ISKCON ambassador should really be more careful. It makes you look desperate and kind’a stupid IMHO.
On the15th April 2013 SG wrote; “THIS IS SOMETHING ISKCON SHOULD BE LOOKING INTO INSTEAD OF MISDIRECTING THE DEVOTEES AND THE GENERAL PUBLIC BY FOOLISHLY
PRACTICING GURU APPOINTMENT NONSENSE. ALL DEVOTEES IN ISKCON
SHOULD WAKE UP BEFORE ANOTHER “AUSTRALIAN YATRA” HAPPENS TO YOU AND IT CAN HAPPEN. THERE ARE OVER 40+ GURU FALLEN REASONS IN ISKCON TO PROVE THAT IT CAN HAPPEN. READ SRILA PRABHUPADA’S BOOKS CAREFULLY AND SINCERELY ASCERTAIN YOUR UNDERSTANDING ON WHAT IS BEING SAID AS IT IS THEN QUESTION YOUR TEMPLE PRESIDENTS, YOUR SO CALLED GURUS AND THE GBC MEMBERS. ASK WHY GURU APPOINTMENTS. ASK WHERE IS THE SASTRIC EVEIDENCE FROM SASTRA, SADHU AND GURU FOR SUCH PRACTICE.
IF NONE GIVEN THEN SIMPLY FOLLOW SRILA PRABHUPADA’S DIRECTIONS.
MAKE HIS BOOKS/VANI YOUR GUIDE. DO NOT FOLLOW BLINDLY AND THEN SCREAM MURDER”.
Raja Gopal, you will talk for one hundred years and never answer my challenge for the names of these ‘liberated acaryas’ because YOU JUST DON”T KNOW! (Only one who is liberated can understand who is liberated).
They say if you give a man enough rope he will be sure to hang himself. Over the course of this debate you have exposed your true nature in your (vain) attempt to try and drag Srila Prabhupada down to the level of your conditioned guru, and thus you have gone on public record and exposed to the world your true nature.
What kind of man says “my guru is a liberated acaraya but his guru became a karmi”?
I hope when you become a ‘guru’ that you will be blessed with disciples of a similar nature.
I personally cannot read anymore of your blaspheme of Srila Prabhupada. Your association is contaminating to this non-liberated soul. You are an unworthy opponent as you ‘cherry pick’ and ‘beg the question’, and have thus humiliated yourself.
You will have the last word no doubt, but what you DIDN’T SAY will always speak the loudest.
JFS.
What type of an IGNORANT FOOL are you, Raja Gopala dasa, when you say in your post in replying to @Atmavidya Das ; ” I know for a fact that in general those that do not take initiation from a physically present guru won’t reach SP and won’t reach Sri Krshna and won’t even reach brahma bhuta realisation. One category: ritviks, the worshippers with a popstar worship mentality.”
Did you read Srila Prabhupada’s statement as quoted by me in my post which follows as ;
” This conditioned Jiva Raja Gopala dasa is so blinded himself in following the conditioned guru personally for his spiritual guidance, instructions as he quotes in his comments ; ” Serious people look for personal spiritual guidance, instruction. I am most happy I met my guru maharaja, a faithful and realised disciple of Srila Prabhupada. Ritviks are in my analysis just impersonalists, that’s all. ”
Where as HDG. Srila Prabhupada says this as a warning in his quote ; “Yes. My Guru Maharaja passed in 1936, and I started this movement in 1965, thirty years after. Then? I am getting the mercy of guru. This is vani. Even the guru is not physically present, if you follow the vani, then you are getting help.”
(Morning Walk — July 21, 1975, San Francisco)
Raja Gopala you do not need a living guru. As long as you follow the Vani of Srila Prabhupada even He is not physically present, if you follow the Vani then you are getting help from the Spiritual Master as Srila Prabhupada said.
That is all you need, Pure VANI of Srila Prabhupada to make your life sublime in cultivating Krishna Consciousness.
Raja Gopala please answer ;
Is Srila Prabhupada impersonlist as per your analysis quoted above ?
What did Srila Prabhupada follow after the departure of His Guru Maharaja ?
Did Srila Prabhupada follow living guru when His Guru Maharaja was absent physically ?
You are indeed an ignorant fool who keeps on ignoring the instructions of HDG. Srila Prabhupada simply because you do not accept and follow through.
As you openly admitted in your post else where in this forum stating that you do not agree with the comments I made in reference to quoting Srila Prabhupada’s statement in my post. An other words, you and your associates, therefore, do not accept the authority of the statements of Srila Prabhupada in question.
So, please STOP writing NON-sense repeatedly showing your ignorance as such ; ” I know for a fact that in general those that do not take initiation from a physically present guru won’t reach SP and won’t reach Sri Krshna and won’t even reach brahma bhuta realisation. One category: ritviks, the worshippers with a popstar worship mentality.”
Are you above the authority of Srila Prabhupada ??????
If you are not addressing the questions I ask you, then, please do not write non-sense answer at all.
Hope you get it FINALLY.
@Puranjana das My guru is a most faithful, self realised disciple of Srila Prabhupada. Your cynicism, insults and generalisations cannot touch one nano second.
[PADA: OK you avoided the whole issue once again. The GBC’s post-1977 lectures, letters, conversations and position papers state — in writing — and over and over and over again, and over and over and over again, that gurus fall down into illicit sex. We have many such examples on our web site harekrsna org. These are not general statement, they are specific statements.
These documents were already starting to be written by the GBC at the get go, when they said Jayatirtha is still a guru, even after he was caught red handed engaged in illicit sex and taking drugs. Your guru is part of that bogus siddhanta and system, or else if he wrote a counter document, no one has ever seen it?
Where does your guru say that all these GBC lectures, letters, and documents are bogus, since they say that the parampara is populated by debauchees? Show us the URL of the post your guru has made to protest these bogus documents? Otherwise, we have to assume he is aiding and abetting these bogus documents and the authors of these documents.]
RAJA: More important for me is whether I myself have become Krsna conscious. Since I am a faithful follower of my guru’s instructions I have become conscious of Sri Krishna. Therefore I am free from mundane sex life, for years, although I am a vaisnava grhasta.
[PADA: Well there are turtles who only have sex once every six years, that does not mean they are self realized? We are asking you a question about the siddhanta: — Srila Prabhupada says it is a severe offense to say gurus fall down “gurusuh narah matih narakah sah,” — anyone who says gurus are ordinary men (who have illicit sex) are residents of hell.
Naraka.
That makes you and your guru residents of hell because you participate in this offense. I am asking you where you and your guru agree with us and with shastra, that people who say gurus are deviants are residents of hell, and thus all of the GBC documents are emanating from naraka.
Where have you or your guru said that you oppose all of these lectures, letters, position papers and statement from GBC’s members that are saying gurus are falling down left, right and center?]
RAJA: How many ritviks are free from sex life? Most probably not many, if any, since they only worship Srila Prabhupada as if HDG is some popstar. No humility means not even understanding the brahma bhuta stage, what to speak of realising it. Arrogance and mundane sex life destroy humility. Ritviks have no humility, are most mundane worshippers. Their fundament is “being against”. imho You are just a disappointed, cynical person, that’s all. No realisations, no humility. Just dry and disgruntled.
[PADA: But you do not even know what any ten year old child in the USA knows, God’s successors are not debauchees? We are not against anything, we are for Krishna, and He says acharyam mam vijnaniyam: He says the guru is as pure as My very self, Krishna does not say — illicit sex is as good as My very self?
So we agree with Krishna, but so does every 10 years old child in the USA, we ALL agree and know that God’s guru successors are not debauchees, and that you and your guru, — and your stacks of GBC documents that claim gurus are debauchees, are wrong and bogus, and are also written by naraka sah, residents of hell.
Since you cannot answer a question any ten year old child in the USA knows, you and your guru are not as advanced as regular mundane school children anywhere in the USA. How come when we ask you a simple question that every 10 years old knows, you are baffled? That means you and your guru are not as advanced as a 10 years old child. ys pd]
Rajagopal das, you and the rest of your kind are the typical iskcon vapuvadis.
Oh wait I think I hear your guru calling, he said that “he needs his feet washed” and that “he is also out of dakshina” so you need to go “get out the collection plate” so he can replentish his bank account.
we can argue about this topic for eternity and neither side will submit to it. It is better to chant the holy name of Krishna and prayer for guidance to Srila Prabhupada and Gour Nitai. Everything will be revealed in the heart of sincere devotees. Hare Krishna, your servant in the service of Srila Prabhupada,
p.s. if we look at the examples set by Srila Prabhupada about his god-brothers we will see he did not spend much time criticizing his god-brothers, instead he created a new society of devotees.
In his same post, in the last paragraph, this ignorant fool Raja Gopala dasa writes in replying to @Atmavidya Das : ” In general one needs direct, personal association, instruction and some chastisement, out of love. SP can’t offer these relations, his faithful disciples and grand disciples can. HDG SP ordered them to do so.”
Personal association of the Physically presence Living Guru, this Sadharan conditioned Jiva is propagating against the instructions of HDG. Srila Prabhupada which reads as ;
” “Yes. My Guru Maharaja passed in 1936, and I started this movement in 1965, thirty years after. Then? I am getting the mercy of guru. This is vani. Even the guru is not physically present, if you follow the vani, then you are getting help.”
(Morning Walk — July 21, 1975, San Francisco)
Yes, Personal Association is available through Srila Prabhupada’s VANI. Even the guru is not physically present, if you follow the VANI then you are getting help. These are the instructions of HDG. Srila Prabhupada to whom this Murkha Raja Gopala dasa and co refuses and rejects to accept and follow it. Because they want Living Guru, not a dead guru. A dead guru can not chastise because the guru is dead.
Now the question arises that how can HDG. Srila Prabhupada chastise to his so called followers such as Raja Gopala dasa and co, SG and all others self made / realized gurus of all sorts in various shapes and styles ?
Those who are serious and sincere in following the Instructions of Srila Prabhupada’s VANI, they carry the instructions of Srila Prabhupada and they refute and rebuke those so called bogus gurus and their followers’ tainted philosophy by quoting Srila Prabhupada’s instructions – VANI in exposing out to the massive people as it is going on not only on this forum but every where where ever Srila Prabhupada’s VANI is misrepresented by those personally motivated so called amara ajnara guru and their followers / disciples.
That is how HDG. Srila Prabhupada chastises the miscreants such as Raja gopala dasa and co., and to his voted in self realized guru in the present Iskcon.
Hope it helps.
Hari BOL.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
@Bhaktvatsal das
As general idea I agree with you, Bhaktavatsal prabhu. It would be very nice.
There is only one big problem, ritviks love to insult and offend. They condemn ALL Iskcon devotees who have the humble service of guru. In the mean time they want to be guru themselves, practically speaking. While they cannot control their lusty desires or are willing to even make an attempt to. At least not the ritviks I personally know.
They say, we’re grhastas so we can have sex life for sense pleasure. Let’s be real, hehehe! Only Srila Prabhupada was able to be that renounced …
Further, they make the futile attempt to kill the guru parampara. Only the outstanding acharyas, no one else can be guru. And they decide who those are for the present, and the future: no one …
They generalise like ordinary, very wordly managers.
It’s like saying; Srila Prabhupada actually cannot be a bona fide guru since many of his godbrothers turned out to be frauds. Not exactly the reasoning of a self realised vaisnava brahmana …
One group of people is essential when we want to establish daivi varnashrama dharma: self realised vaisnava brahmanas. But this is impossible according to the ritviks: ONLY Srila Prabhuapda! And with that they also like to kill Vedic culture.
@Nandanidevidasi
“Raja Gopal Das, I’m not a crybaby, it seems that you are the one, read for your self what you wrote.
First you wrote, “He is my most worshipable grandguru”.
And then you wrote:
“Your worship of Srila Prabhupada is just popstar worship, that’s why you will never realize Sri Krsna or the wonderful qualities of the pure Vaisnava Srila Prabhupada”.”
Apparently you cannot even understand that the above statements go together perfectly. You lack brains, that’s for sure.
@RajaGopala: “Ritviks say, we’re grhastas so we can have sex life for sense pleasure. Let’s be real, hehehe! Only Srila Prabhupada was able to be that renounced …”
This is of course bogus humbug. Please post your crap somewhere else, we heard enough of your foolish gobbledygook. You never quote Prabhupada or sastra, so who wants to listen to such mental concoction, at least I don’t know anybody.
Thanks for your understanding – good-bye
@Amar Puri
You completeley fail to understand or even accept that SP had personal, direct association from his guru maharaja. That very personal, direct association with his physically present guru inspired him, for the rest of his life.
If you can become Krsna conscious by reading SP books and worshipping his murti, that’s perfect. But can you actually, without anyone challenging you and chastising you personally?
SP initially had argument with BS. Surrender generally goes with some argument. Ritviks can’t have that, don’t have the guts, nor the intelligence for that.
My personal, direct association with my guru maharaja inspired me to take to the path of Krsna bhakti. And I also had argument initially. Guru breaks the argument with love and devotional strength.
Therefore I am already for years a faitfull grand disciple of SP who sticks to the religious principles although I am in the role of a grhasta. Why? Because I have some tatse for Krsna bhakti. I am not interested in some popstar worship mentality filled with worldy ignorance.
SP wants all disciples, grand disciples, great grand disciples etc. to become conscous of Sri Krsna, not worship him like a fool.
The mission of guru is to bring Krsna. That’s all. I truly don’t have the least impression ritviks reach Sri Krsna. They reach only sentimental worship and thereby remain fully in mahamaya consciousness.
btw SG pointed out very nicely how you react on comments from eg me. Indeed, you react like a small child. Just watch his comment about your style of communicating.
Hey Fruit seller,
I agree, at least partially, on what SG has mentioned on the 15th of April. The very fact is am not a blind follower of anyone or anything, including Iskcon and its GBC.
Overall I am very loyal to Iskcon. This probably is far too difficult for you to understand.
@Bhakta Michael
It certainly isn’t bogus, this sex addiction of ritviks. Because they’re filled with subtle sex which they like to stick to very, very much.
And where there is a lot of subtle sex, generally gross sex follows. Just natures laws, bhakta Michael.
Further, I hardly quote SP or sastra for a reason. You want to know the reason? It’s very, very simple. Here it comes: in SP statements and sastra there are many, many apparent contradictions.
So it’s most easy to quote according to your personal, false ego convenience …
@bharga dasa
Wise words, bharga prabhu,
For me, however, it has been very productive in the service to my guru and grand guru, HDG SP.
Because now I know even better the motives, capacity of analysis, style of communcation and emotions of the ritviks.
Of course, Sri Visnu decides on the quality of my personal devotional service attitude.
Up until know, He gives me wonderful realisations of His beauty, his unlimited charm. Wonderful, Krsna bhakti!
I always pay humble obeisances to my guru and the guru parampara for it.
@Puranjana das
Indeed, you are just a resentful, dried up person. You don’t know my guru but still prefer to generalise and insult him also.
SP gave many, many big instructions to very, very young vaisnavas. He gave “shoes too big” as he himself described it. But this you don’t understand, resentful man.
btw I don’t have sex life because of my taste for Sri Krsna, no other reason. So why you like to compare this to the life of turtles? I know why; you are an old, resentful person, that’s all.
@Just-a-fruit-seller
So you don’t now whether SP was liberated when he was physically present? And SP couldn’t know whether or not BST was liberated when he was physically present?
Well, I know SP was liberated when he was physically present. And far beyond btw.
But I cannot know, and SP couldn’t have known … according to you. So you are Sri Visnu?
@RajaGopalaDas: “But can you actually, without anyone challenging you and chastising you personally?”
Dear friend, here we go, you simply have no clue what is ritvik!
The only thing what you know about ritvik is — that for ISKCON’s GBC it is a swearword, dirty word.
Ritvik is what we had starting in 1966 till 1977. Everybody worked under the direction of either temple commander, Sankirtan leader, temple president or GBC. Nobody worked independent. Through this managerial system Prabhupada would guide and enlighten his disciples. The spiritual master reveals transcendental knowledge within our heart.There is no need that he stays at your side 24/7 in order to train you.
Right now ISKCON disciples see their guru at most once a year. Often during this time they listen to class or make kirtan with their guru, rather no individual chastising. So basically spiritual life is always ritvik, working under bona fide spiritual authority, TP, GBC, Sankirtan leader, temple commander.
Another confused fanatic on facebook says: Nanda Kumar Das
Food offered to Krishna via Prabhupada is not prasadam? Hm, well, then offer it to a conditioned soul guru and see what happens next, 43 are crashed already…
“Out of compassion for them, I, dwelling in their hearts, destroy with the shining lamp of knowledge the darkness born of ignorance [Bg. 10.11] … When one is enlightened with the knowledge by which nescience is destroyed, then his knowledge reveals everything, as the sun lights up everything in the daytime.” [Bg. 5.16]
@Bhakta Ralph
Ritviks like to generalise and with that offend great vaisnavas, among them humble, self realised guru’s.
At the same time, although most impure, they like to be gurus themselves very much, dictate what is to be done and not to be done. For these reasons ritviks are considered tragical persons.
Further, personal, direct loving chastisement by your diksa/siksa guru ideally you only need in the beginning of your spiritual life. Then you get inspired externally and 10.11 becomes manifest because of your own bhakti and Sri Krsna’s compassion.
And again, if one can reach Goloka Vrndavana through SP books and murti, its perfect. I definitely am not against that. But who can?
HDG SP definitely has had personal, physical contact with HDG BST before he surrendered fully.
It’s varying a lot how many times disciples within Iskcon meet/see their guru.
But do you understand ritviks? Their core business is denying a guru parampara completely after SP. And promotion of some sentimental worship of SP. Definitely not becoming consciouss of Sri Krsna, the sole purpose of guru’s role. But like the fake Christians and the Salafists, just promoting some political religion, some cheap show.
Raja GopalaDas: Further, I hardly quote SP or sastra for a reason. You want to know the reason? It’s very, very simple. Here it comes: in SP statements and sastra there are many, many apparent contradictions.
Mahesh: you say APPARENT so why are they APPARENT contradictions: because the WHOLE philosophy is based on SIMULTANEOUS ONENESS AND DIFFERENCE. The subject of Guru Tattva there are non liberated siksa guru, realized siksa guru, Mahabhagavata the BONAFIDE Diksa guru so one has to UNDERSTAND what quote applies where:
KB 82 Lord Krsna and Balarama Meet the Inhabitants of Vrndavana
The whole philosophy is considered on the basis of inconceivable, simultaneous oneness and difference.
Bg 17.15 P The Divisions of Faith
When speaking in spiritual circles, one’s statements must be upheld by the scriptures. One should at once quote from scriptural authority to back up what he is saying.
@Mahesh Raja
“So it’s most easy to quote according to your personal, false ego convenience …”
The above I also stated in regard to “quoting”, just read my comment in this context. But you conveniently leave that part aside. Indeed, you can quote according to your own, personal convenience …
That is, among other characteristics, what makes cheap behaviour. You just gave another very nice example, Mahesh Raja.
Raja Gopala thinks that people of the world are going to agree with him and the GBC — that gurus, acharyas and God’s successors are often — debauchees, who are falling down left, right and center into illicit sex, drugs and worse. If we had wanted to worship debauchees, we never would have become devotees of Krishna? Raja has no idea why people worship Krishna in the first place, they do not want to worship his pack of debauchees “sampradaya”? Even a ten years old child knows, only a pure person can be God’s susccessor, whereas Raja thinks when the San Francisco Disco party starts, this is guru’s lila? Sorry, its not! ys pd]
Raja Gopala dasa :So it’s most easy to quote according to your personal, false ego convenience …”
Mahesh: Point is YOU have YOUR agenda for worshipping your CONDITIONED SOUL guru. Ok suit your OWN mental speculations.
Best thing is for you to join your OWN kind of folks — PARAMPARA OF BABOON WORSHIPERS.
Man is judged by his company. Birds of a feather folk together.
Hare Krsna!
@Puranjana das,
According to you Srila Prabhupada must have very fallen since many of his godbrothers turned out to be frauds.
You’re just a dried up, resentful person and therefore you like to generalise. But remember that in your wild generalisations, a characteristic of bossy, blind people, you insult great and beyond great vaisnavas. Indeed, bad luck for you.
@Mahesh Raja
Funny, you don’t even know who my guru is …
RajaGopalaDasa on Monday morning 8.30 am: “You’re just a dried up, resentful person and therefore you like to generalise…”
Thanks RajaGopala pr for trying to “teach” the Prabhupadanugas that there is something more than Prabhupada. Indeed a difficult task!
Time is costly, you are a family man with job and many duties, your guru surely gave you some service, so let’s not waste time and do our work.
We heard you live in the Netherlands (http://www.harekrishna.nl/) hopefully you will also engage yourself so tirelessly to uplift suffering Dutch people?
(http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2013/08/building_group_bam_to_cut_500.php)
In any case, thanks for stopping by, we certainly wish you all the best on your chosen path. Thanks for spending time with us! ys bm
@Bh. Michael
Guru brings Sri Krshna, otherwise being “disciple” has no function, is just some ritualistic “relationship”.
After communication with ritviks on this forum I don’t have the slightest impression that ritviks have any buddhi about Sri Krshna.
Hopefully you will stop offending great vaisnavas and stop trying to kill the guru parampara, including its branches. In that case, all the best to you also.
What deluded trolls like Raja Gopal Das carefully brush under the carpet is that thousands of former ISKCON devotees (also in the Netherlands) who got cheated by an ISKCON guru joined Gaudiya-matha, left for good.
Are folks like Raja Gopal ever trying to preach to these former ISKCON devotees – thousands – to get them back? Nope, never! His intelligence is that he is blissfully happy that they are gone!
For Raja Gopal Dasa this is fine and perfect that these devotees are no more coming back. So why is he so affected to attack Prabhupadanugas? Does he figure that they are right and have his voted-in guru system collapse like a house of cards? Answer looks like yes…
No matter how good Raja Gopal Dasa’s “guru” is, and how bad the Ritviks are, it doesn’t change the fact that Srila Prabhupada condemned the factionalization that a multiple guru system causes. Out of his causeless mercy, Prabhupada solved the problem of factionalization by ordering that his ingenious ritvik system of initiations continue “henceforward.”
If Raja Gopal’s “guru” is actually qualified to be a diksa guru, then he should do his guru business outside of ISKCON. Otherwise he is contributing to the factionalization which Srila Prabhupada condemned.
Also, even if his “guru” hasn’t fallen down yet, he is still not a real guru because a real guru is not subject to the dictates/disciplines of a GBC, and if he doesn’t submit to the GBC, he’s simply a troublemaker!
In other words, if you have a position in a corporate structure such as ISKCON, then you have to refrain from “making waves” and be a “corporation man.” This, from the get-go, rules out the possibility of a real guru being a member of ISKCON. (See: The Bottom Line on the ISKCON Guru Issue)
This conditioned Jiva Raja Gopala is throwing himself through his writing in circle 360 degree. Neither he nor his liberated voted in guru in the present Iskcon has any answer to the legitimate concerns regarding Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions which were deliberately hidden by these so called liberated gurus of all sorts thus far. Now these have been surfaced and become known to every one after such a long time, therefore, it becomes very difficult for these conditioned Jivas ( so called gurus ) to accept the original AS IT IS instructions of Srila Prabhupada in the present Iskcon which He established rightfully to continue fulfilling the mission of His Guru Maharaja Srila BSST without any DEVIATION.
As Raja Gopala subscribes to these deviated misleading instructions created by these gurus and as he continues to DEFEND his deviated guru in the Iskcon of Srila Prabhupada in which Srila Prabhupada never has authorized any one of his disciples to be HIS SUCCESSOR, therefore, Raja Gopala dasa and co OFFEND all those who are trying to bring back the original instructions of Srila Prabhupada’s Iskcon.
This type of unproductive useless arguments ( defending and offending ) Raja gopala dasa and co is playing in his writing. Why I say this ? Because when any body including myself put forth questions he foolishly ignore to address it and give nonsensical reply in his writing in order to go in circle. Thus it never ends.
Here is to re-affirm my answer appended below in CAP letter of Bhaktin Rose’s questions;
YES, THESE DEVOTEES MAY NOT COME BACK TO ISKCON TEMPLE CONTROLLED BY THE MAFIA GURUS BUT THEY ARE SURELY BACK TO PREACH THE GLORIOUS MESSAGE OF SRILA PRABHUPADA-VANI. THAT IS WHY RAJA GOPAL DASA IS CERTAINLY NOT FINE AND PERFECT BECAUSE IT GOES AGAINST HIS VOTED IN LIBERATED GURU’S INSTRUCTIONS. THAT IS THE PROBLEM RAJA GOPALA CAN NOT ACCEPT IT.
BECAUSE FOLLOWERS OF THE INSTRUCTIONS OF SRILA PRABHUPADA AKA PRABHUPADANUGAS
ADVOCATE AND PREACH ONLY SRILA PRABHUPADA HAS AUTHORIZED NO SUCCESSOR IN HIS ISKCON, THEREFORE, THE POSITION OF SELF PROCLAIMED OF VOTED IN BOGUS GURUS ARE THREATENED IN THE PRESENT ISKCON. THUS, RAJA GOPALA AND CO HAS TO PROTECT THE POSITION OF HIS DEVIANT LIBERATED GURU AND OBVIOUSLY THE ATTACK GOES ON TO THE PRABHUPADANUGAS BY THE FOLLOWERS OF ISKCON GURUS.
DEFINITELY, THE ANSWER IS AFFIRMATIVE Bhaktin Rose.
Hope it finds well.
Hari BOL.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Here is one of the example of Raja Gopala dasa nonsensical answer when he writes :
” If you can become Krsna conscious by reading SP books and worshipping his murti, that’s perfect. But can you actually, without anyone challenging you and chastising you personally? SP initially had argument with BS. Surrender generally goes with some argument. Ritviks can’t have that, don’t have the guts, nor the intelligence for that. ”
I have already commented in my post how Srila Prabhupada chastises the deviant people such as Raja Gopala & co and his liberated deviant guru and yet he dares to write nonsensical answer cited above in his post.
Nobody can help these people because they refuse and reject the instructions of the founder Acaraya of Iskcon HDG Srila Prabhupada. That is it.
Hari BOL.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Yep, that was the first thing the Raja Gopala guru line folks told me when I said Jayatirtha is having illicit sex and is taking drugs, they said “Oh no!, you want to get rid of Jayatirtha — and kill the parampara.”
No, I just do not want to see Raja Gopala’s gurus promoting illicit sex and drugs as “the parampara.”
Why doesn’t Raja Gopala and his gurus know that God’s successors are not engaged in these behaviors? Yep, even the village drunk knows that debauchees are not “the parampara from God.” Sheesh! ys pd
TALKING DOUBLE DUTCH.
Devotee 1. “Caitanya Mahaprabhu said you all become guru!”
Devotee 2. “Cool I’ll become a guru then, maybe my wife too.”
Devotee 1. “NO prabhu, you can’t become guru unless and until YOUR guru says you can.”
Devotee 2. “But my guru was NEVER instructed by his guru to become guru and he did?”
Devotee 1. “Well,…then you accept the authorization of the all-powerful GBC to decide when you become guru.”
Devotee 2. “But wait, NOT ONE OF THEM was ever instructed by their guru to either become guru, or authorize others to become guru!?”
Devotee 1. “You think too much prabhu.”
RAJA GOPALA: According to you Srila Prabhupada must have very fallen since many of his godbrothers turned out to be frauds. You’re just a dried up, resentful person and therefore you like to generalise. But remember that in your wild generalisations, a characteristic of bossy, blind people, you insult great and beyond great vaisnavas. Indeed, bad luck for you.
[PADA: Well you are partially right. Srila Prabhupada said Sridhara Maharaja formed a bogus guru program in India, where they were worshiping a bi-sexual deviant who ran off to take re-initiation from the smartas, and the result was their preaching mission was destroyed, dissenters were murdered and so on.
And that is exactly the same person Raja Gopala’s guru program went to 1978, they declared that “Srila Bhakti Rakshaka Sridhara Maharaja” is now the GBC’s and ISKCON’s “advisor” “shiksha guru” and “higher authority” and so on, and then Sridhara helped them make deviants into acharyas.
Gaudiya Matha part two. All of the position papers Sridhara helped them write up to the early 80s are still in the GBC documents library, the GBC never ejected those documents as bogus. That means, Raja Gopala’s gurus are still following Sridhara Maharaja. Then again they made many position papers with Narayan Maharaja, like the “Guru Reform Notebook,” which are also not yet jettisoned, and is part of the GBC document library. So Raja Gopala is following these Gaudiya Matha folks, and their bogus documents, and other bogus people / frauds as his party’s authorities, correct. ys pd]
Lokanatha (Swami) fell down several times which is all very well documented by the GBC but he is still ISKCON guru and sannyasi. How does that work? He molested little girl and he had an affair for many years with his French secretary at the time and GBC knows all about it, yet is doing nothing regarding this. Talking about double GBC standards.
Just wanted to share this article from the S-Sun. I think we can also add Love-boat (Cruise ship) guru, Suspended guru and Reprimanded guru to the never ending list….
BY: DOWNUNDER DASANUDAS
Aug 26, 2013 — AUSTRALIA (SUN) — For all of us who have been waiting in the stands for so long, expecting that call to arms from the ultimate spiritual authority, the good ship GBC to ordain us as fully fledged diksa-gurus with all the trappings, it definitely seems like we have been missing the point. We are already diksa-gurus. Didn’t Sriman Mahaprabhu preach that on His order we all become ‘as good as God’ diksa-gurus and initiate the masses? Didn’t His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada also order that every one of his disciples, man woman and child (and even those in a non-designated species), go out and give diksa initiation to everyone we meet?
It’s obviously our ‘birthright’!!! Just like if dad is a Brahmin, aren’t I also qualified??? If I have a father, why can’t I also have a son! Makes sense doesn’t it! So why have the GBC been so miserly and discriminative in allowing this birthright to only a very select hundred or so who have been ordained with that ‘no-objection’ rubber stamp? Let’s open the floodgates…come forth and claim your rightful position.
This will solve all the problems ISKCON has faced in the past, present and future, including infighting over disciples and zones. Can’t you just see it…hoardes of bona fide diksa-gurus flooding the planet with a tsunami of love of God! Those vikarmis will never know what hit them. Here in the ‘land downunder’, those pesky kangaroos often reach plague proportions, however the hoardes of ISKCON gurus will be just the opposite, welcomed by every householder to initiate them while they milk their cow (or kangaroo).
You may rightfully ask, is there any qualification or regulation involved in this sublime position? Not really, you just have to have the desire to want to do it… and even if for some reason the responsibility no longer appeals to you, there are so many ‘fall-back’ positions, so your career move will not go in vain.
Mostly all have excellent ongoing benefits, and of course you can keep what you have stashed away while in office. Just to name a few, we have available Retired-guru, Comeback-guru, Porno-guru, Mayavada hugging-guru, Babaji loving-guru, Homosex-guru, Marry your disciple-guru, Marry your disciple’s wife-guru, Millionaire-guru (I got an inheritance), Hollywood-guru, Pedophile-guru, LSD-guru (off ya head), Same-sex marriage-guru, and of course, let’s not forget Brahmacarini harem-guru. As you can see the list goes on and on, so there really is a place for us all to be looked after in our retirement.
Only blip on the radar I can see is that if we are all diksa-gurus, where the heck is the daksine coming from, as there won’t be any disciples…? I knew there had to be a catch somewhere. Oh well, back to study the Sastra again! Maybe there is a better way.
Your most humble servant,
Downunder dasanudas
anon says: Lokanatha (Swami) fell down several times which is all very well documented by the GBC but he is still ISKCON guru and sannyasi. How does that work? He molested little girl and he had an affair for many years with his French secretary at the time and GBC knows all about it, yet is doing nothing regarding this. Talking about double GBC standards.
A real guru is not subject to the dictates of a “GBC.”
The ISKCON GBC hesitates to punish one of their voted-in pretender gurus who is submissive to them, but they are more than willing to punish one who starts acting like a real guru and ignores their dictates! Therefore, the ISKCON GBC is caught between a rock and a hard place. They have painted themselves into a corner. It’s a no-win situation for them. So many big, big problems they have created for themselves because, back in early 1978, they decided to ignore Srila Prabhupada’s July 9, 1977 “ritvik henceforward” directive.
It is also clearly stated that until one reaches the stage of prema, falldown is possible, though not likely. So by definition, Srila Prabhupada’s definition, the shastric definition, a “real” guru must be a pure devotee and uttama-adhikari. There is no question of falldown for such a jivan mukta guru and maha-bhagavata devotee.
Under such above definitions, it is also a truism that if the guru cannot fall down then there is no question of re-initiation. The guru, being our eternal preceptor and guide, is the representative of God, the intimate associate of the Lord who brings us into His service. Where is the question of his falling and the disciple requiring to be re-initiated into the parampara? Unless, of course, he wasn’t sufficiently qualified to begin with.
Still, we find a different and apparently contradictory view in the Harinama Cintamani of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur (translated by Kushakratha das). Firstly, in Chapter Six, ‘Disregarding the Guru’, the third offence in chanting the Holy Names, the following is a description of the bonafide guru and how he must be viewed and regarded:
“The sambandha jnana or teachings are handed down in a sampradaya from the founder-acarya of the sampradaya. These original teachings and the founder-acarya of the sampradaya are to be worshiped with all respects. One should be loyal to his conclusions and instructions, not taking teachings from others. One should take as siksha or diksha guru only a person who is following faithfully the teachings of that founder-acarya……Thus guru, whether siksha or diksha guru, must be the servant of Krishna, an associate of the Lord eternally in Vrindavana, who has been especially empowered by Krishna. One should serve the guru with great devotion, knowing him to be directly empowered by Krishna, the dearmost servant of Krishna, and one’s own eternal spiritual guide.”
Later, the following is stated:
“If a guru takes unsuitable people for disciples, and if a disciple takes an unqualified guru, he will accordingly suffer. In order to avoid these misfortunes one should be cautious. On the other hand, as long as both guru and disciple are properly qualified, the relationship will continue. Ideally, this relationship is eternal; but if the disciple becomes bad, the guru must reject him, and if the guru becomes bad, the disciple must reject him. Otherwise, both may fall. Better one than both”.
And finally:
“When should a guru be rejected? It may happen that through asat sanga a guru may lose his qualifications. Starting as a big guru, by committing Nama aparadha he loses his knowledge. By offending other Vaishnavas he loses a taste for the Name and gradually falls under the control of wealth and women. Such a guru should be rejected. By the mercy of Krishna that disciple will obtain a new bona fide guru and take up pure chanting of the Name again.”
Besides, Srila Prabhupada stated more than once that actually there is no fall down from the spiritual world. Conditioned souls like ritviks simply don’t understand anything.
The original gypsy writes half the truth in his comments stating: ” Besides, Srila Prabhupada stated more than once that actually there is no fall down from the spiritual world. Conditioned souls like ritviks simply don’t understand anything.”
Certainly, there is no fall down from the Spiritual world but IF the Jiva chooses so with the FREE will to enjoy oneself on the same platform of the Lord, then, the Jiva is subject to fall down as is confirmed in the Bhagavat Gita 18.63: “yatheachasi tatha kuru” now you do whatever you like.
Is it NOT true, the original gypsy?????
You are like all the Iskcon leaders who are expert in presenting only half the truth that suits their motive and mislead the massive sincere people to fulfill their agenda.
Now you come to this forum to show your ignorance to condemn the people who are following only Srila Prabhupada’s VANI and reject all others.
Please do not show your ignorance by condemning ritviks.
Hope it meets you well.
Hari BOL.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
the Original Gypsy: Besides, Srila Prabhupada stated more than once that actually there is no fall down from the spiritual world. Conditioned souls like ritviks simply don’t understand anything.
Mahesh: “Ritviks” understand it – better than you. You have your FREE WILL . So YOU can choose to come BACK to the material world:
730513mw.la Conversations
Paramahamsa: But ultimately if we come to Krsna, there’s no return. But nevertheless, Jagai, and…, the two gatekeepers, they returned?
Prabhupada: There is return, that is voluntary. Return there is.
Paramahamsa: If we want.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Paramahamsa: So we can come to the spiritual world and return?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Paramahamsa: Fall down?
Prabhupada: Yes. As soon as we try, “Oh, this material world is very nice,” “Yes,” Krsna says, “yes, you go.” Just like nobody is interested in Krsna consciousness. Do you think everyone is interested? So. They want to enjoy this material world. Otherwise what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will. And Krsna is so kind, He gives him opportunity, “All right, you enjoy like this.” Just like some of our students, Krsna conscious, sometimes go away, again come back. It is free will, not stereotyped. Just like one goes to the prisonhouse, not that government welcomes, “Come on. We have got prisonhouse. Come here, come here.” He goes out of his free will; again comes out, again goes. Like that. Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare, nikata-stha maya tare japatiya dhare. The police is there. Just like the police car was there. We have nothing to do with it. But if you do anything criminal, immediately you will be arrested, under police custody. The maya may be there, but maya captures him who is not a devotee of Krsna. That’s all. Therefore, mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te: “Anyone who surrenders unto Me, maya does not interfere anymore.”
@Amar Puri @Mahesh Raja
Of course there is a material world. But that material world is also spiritual. Ritviks, what do they actually understand? Indeed, parroting SP is not enough.
What about Bhaktivenode Thakura’s info on guru’s, since ritviks dictatorially claim to know everything on “guru’s”?
@Prof.Dr.Gypsy: Ritviks, what do they actually understand?
Yet another arrogant dutch loud-mouth – incompetent narcissistic egomaniac with disposition for cruelty….. What a beauty! And the whole thing in the dress of Vaishnava! Plz send more of that ilk, in this way we can quickly increase the number of Prabhupadanugas
@Bhaktin Rose
Why don’t you react on the content of Bhaktivinoda Thakura’s info on guru’s since you ritviks dictatorially claim to know everything on the subject?
Does the information of Bhaktivinoda Thakura on “guru’s” perhaps not fit in your dictatorial, wrong claims …?
the Original Gypsy: What about Bhaktivenode Thakura’s info on guru’s, since ritviks dictatorially claim to know everything on “guru’s”?
Mahesh: 1) The books of previous acaryas are often manipulated to OPPOSE SRILA PRABHUPADA 2) Srila Prabhupada ONLY gives THESE instructions to follow:
73-12-25.Letter: Gurukrpa , Yasodanandana
Whatever is to be learned of the teachings of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura can be learned from our books. There is no need whatsoever for any outside instruction.
731208SB.LA Lectures
You cannot imagine what my spiritual master said. Or even if you read some books, you cannot understand unless you understand it from me. This is called parampara system. You cannot jump over to the superior guru, neglecting the next acarya, immediate next acarya.
74-11-22. Letter: Bahurupa
In my books the philosophy of Krishna Consciousness is explained FULLY so if there is anything which you do not understand, then you simply have to read again and again. By reading daily the knowledge will be revealed to you and by this process your spiritual life will develop.
the Original Gypsy: Indeed, parroting SP is not enough.
Mahesh: Just read.
740704BG.HON Lectures
Prabhupada: we have already sung. Ara na kariha mane asa. Guru-mukha-padma. What is that? Read.
Bhadra-vardhana: Ara na kariha mane asa.
Prabhupada: Ah. Mean do not think otherwise. Whatever guru has said accept it, finally. Ara na kariha mane asa. Don’t divert from this. This is the instruction. How you can divert from the instruction of guru?
741213SB.BOM Lectures
In the morning also these boys, they sing Narottama dasa Thakura, ara na koriho mane asa. If you have got a pure, bona fide guru, then whatever he says, you do it. You don’t think of anything else, ara na koriho mane asa. No more.
760214SB.MAY Lectures
So therefore, this process Prahlada Maharaja is demonstrating by his personal behavior because he is mahajana. He is mahajana. Out of the twelve mahajanas. The sastra says, mahajano yena gatah sa panthah, one has to follow the mahajana, authorized person. Mahajana means authorized person. Ordinary jana, common man, and mahajana means authorized person. We cannot take lesson, instruction from unauthorized person. This authorization must come through the disciplic succession. If the spiritual master, authorized spiritual master says, “You do this,” that we have to do. That we are singing daily,
guru-mukha-padma-vakya cittete koriya-aikya
ara na koriho mane asa
This is the process. This is the process. And if I think that I am more intelligent than my guru… First of all guru must be bona fide, not a bogus guru.
60623gc.nv Conversations
Prabhupada: Ara na koriha mane asa. Don’t concoct. Don’t you sing daily? Ara na koriha mane asa. Don’t manufacture ideas. That is dangerous.
70128rc.bhu Conversations
Prabhupada: Whatever it may be, this is the position. Those who are neophyte, they are always in danger. Therefore their duty is to be guided by sadhu-sastra-guru. That’s all. That is our… Now, I’ll say from my practical life… It is not pride. Actually everyone knows that my Guru Maharaja had thousands of disciples. So out of thousands of disciples, practically I am little successful. That everyone knows. Why? Because I firmly believed in the words of my guru. That’s all. This is the… There may be many other Godbrother, maybe very learned and very advanced, whatever it may be, favored, and… Everyone claims that “I am the most favorite.” And practical point of view… So I think sometimes that “Why this wonderful thing has happened to me?” So I search out. I search out only that I cent percent believe in the words of my spiritual… That’s all, nothing else. Guru-mukha-padma-vakya, cittete koriya aikya, ara na koriho mane asa. Don’t think of any nonsense. Simply execute what your guru has said. That is success. You are daily singing, guru-mukha-padma-vakya.
@Mahesh Raja:
“1) The books of previous acaryas are often manipulated to OPPOSE SRILA PRABHUPADA”
Oh, so now the books of the great acharya Bhaktivinode Thakura are suddenly illegal. According to you … How convenient.
“2) Srila Prabhupada ONLY gives THESE instructions to follow:”
SP of course gave thousands and thousands of instructions according to time place and circumstance. And many times instructions completely contradictory to each other, if you would separate these from the specific context.
I prefer sastra, not an instruction to a disciple according to time place, circumstance. Just show me that SP writes in sastra that Bhaktivinoda Thakura’s books are illegal or “not necessary”.
@”It may happen that through asat sanga a guru may lose his qualifications. Starting as a big guru, by committing Nama aparadha he loses his knowledge.”
This is what present ISKCON GBC would like to establish. GBC appointed “genuine spiritual masters” who pose as God’s direct representative, demand to be worshiped as good as God, but granted right to quit office without consequence.
Only problem, this is not what Prabhupada taught. This is what priests do. Priests are appointed, voted in, voted out, suspended, excommunicated, censured, admonished, corrected, rectified, disciplined.
How they call such an appointed GBC guru, spiritual master? A master is someone who mastered something. If they grant him to leave with temple money and girlfriend then how someone can call this – spiritual master?
They might fool some cheap followers but educated intelligent Westerners won’t fall for this. This is not what Prabhupada taught. Now they come up with that this is stated in Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura’s books but Prabhupada held it back, suppressed it. But because they know better they make it open to the public. This is getting more and more bizarre.
@Akila Das
Do you know whether one becomes accepted as “guru through vote” within Iskcon or that “an already qualified guru is voted in to be formally accepted as guru of Iskcon”?
There is of course a gulf of difference between the two processes. Apart from it all, SP wanted a GBC and also the guru parampara to continue. Like father, like son.
Indeed, SP gave huge, huge instructions. But always, Sri Visnu decides on ones individual purity, no one else. Only He bestowes liberation. Guru can only inspire the disciple “to go for it”.
Srila Prabhupada said that the Gaudiya Matha folks edited the books of Srila Bhaktivinode after 1936. He also said that anything you need to know about the previous acharyas, is in my books. And yes, he directly told us not to go to the Gaudiya Matha and read the books from there. ys pd
@Akila Das
btw, You reject Bhaktivinoda Thakura’s sastra? We should not use it, according to you? You just want to kill the complete guru parampara, before and after SP, and all the branches?
O-N-L-Y SP!!!
This indeed is a specific form of worship, that’s for sure. Perhaps shake hands with the fake Christians …
I don’t know what it will bring you but it cannot be anything but mahamaya. That’s a conclusion in devotional analysis, of course.
the Original Gypsy says: “SP of course gave thousands and thousands of instructions according to time place and circumstance. And many times instructions completely contradictory to each other, if you would separate these from the specific context.
I prefer sastra, not an instruction to a disciple according to time place, circumstance. Just show me that SP writes in sastra that Bhaktivinoda Thakura’s books are illegal or “not necessary”.
Srila Prabhupada gives thousands and thousands of instructions according to time, place and circumstances. That is correct. Why? Because Srila Prabhupada, the Mahabhagvata knows very well how to bring back the conditioned Jivas of all sorts Back to Godhead so that we the conditioned Jivas including yourself Gypsy and your so called living gurus of all sorts may follow these Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions.
Do you or do they (your living gurus) follow Srila Prabhupada’s instructions and accept his instructions???
The answer clearly lies as stated openly in Gypsy’s statement which reads as ; ” And many times instructions completely contradictory to each other, if you would separate these from the specific context.”
In his above reply, this Gypsy dare to condemn the instructions at one hand which is known as Sastras of the Mahabhagvata Srila Prabhupada and yet Gypsy admits and accepts FOOLISHLY – IGNORANTLY when he states ; ” I prefer sastra, not an instruction to a disciple according to time place, circumstance. Just show me that SP writes in sastra that Bhaktivinoda Thakura’s books are illegal or “not necessary”.
Therefore, Gypsy and his living gurus of all shapes and styles are all Guru’s Apradhi who refuses to accept and follow, and rejects the Instructions of the Sastras given by the Mahabhagavat, Sadhu, Sastras and Guru which are ultimately one and the same as per HDG. Srila Prabhupada.
So Gypsy is contradicting himself and yet he criticize Srila Prabhupada in his statement. What type of a LIE, Cheating is this, Gypsy ? Are you not a LIAR and a CHEATER like your living guru ? Is this the way your preaching all about misrepresentation and full of deceits and yet you dare to come here to show your ignorant and condemn all those who are trying to bring back the Instructions of Srila Prabhupada in His Spiritual Iskcon? What type of a Rakshasa are you, Gypsy?
Hope you do answer these questions or else go and fly the kite some where else along with your associates.
Hope it finds you well.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
The GBC is famous for taking alleged “quotes from previous acharyas” to “prove” that gurus deviate.
Jayapataka has said, for years together, that he really following people like the Gaudiya Matha’s “advisors,” because they were co-writing position papers for Jayapataka and the GBC. And Jayapataka has advertised Gaudiya Matha’s, Gaura Govinda Maharaja’s and Banu swami’s writings. And he still is?
And Banu’s writings are apparently more important than Srila Prabhupada’s writings. Banu swami says for example it is quite typical in the guru parampara from Krishna for the acharyas from Vaikuntha to be fallen i.e.: Womanizing drunkards, homosexuals, Las Vegas gamblers, people who run off with the wives of disciples, debauchees, drug addicts, people who advertise for using condoms for illicit sex, insane asylum refugees, people who run off to eat chicken, fish, meat and maybe even beef steaks, people who live in mansions while the deity lives in a ghetto, etc. and this is very typical of the behavior of acharyas in our parampara.
Gaura Govinda Maharaja even wrote a paper for Jayapataka in 1988 saying simply, that its quite common for gurus to be — demons. Gaura Govinda Maharaja’s people actually gave us his “gurus are sometimes demons” paper when I visited GGM.
Srila Prabhupada never said anything like that? They have accepted Banu swami as a higher authority than Srila Prabhupada? Of course any ten year old child in the USA knows that the guru is not a debauchee, what to speak of a demon, so even a ten year old USA child could defeat all these fools in an instant.
@”This indeed (Prabhupada only) is a specific form of worship, that’s for sure. Perhaps shake hands with the fake Christians …”
Prabhupada gave us Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura’s book, Teaching of Lord Caitanya, where it says (Ch16) that a spiritual master has to be genuine, “a true guru”. Whereas gypsy’s organisers produce one after the other – neophyte pseudo gurus who become private owner of all the buildings in their zone but have “no specific spiritual realization” (GBC paper). Whereas Prabhupada states, a spiritual master is fully realized, fully Krishna conscious.
Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura TLC, Chapter 16 (translated by Prabhupada):… Lord Caitanya then requested Sanatana Gosvami to write down the symptoms of a true guru….and, such a devotee and spiritual master must be respected as God Himself.
@Amar Puri
It is, imho, most ignorant to project time, place, circumstance instructions unto completely other time, place and circumstances. That’s what retarded dictators like to do.
Indeed, ritviks just want to be dictatorial acaryas, under the guise of “o-n-l-y Srila Prabhupada!!!”
Ritviks just try to hijack SP for their worldy propensities, like the fake Christians do. Away from the guru parampara, away from Sri Krsna.
Definitely I follow SP and the guru parampara, therefore I have become conscious of Sri Krsna. That, of course, is what the guru wants for his disciples …
“Guru” consciousness is like the consciousness of a naïve youngster worshipping a popular movie maker.
Spiritual life is about getting out of that foolish consciousness and become … Krsna conscious.
As I said in my PREVIOUS comments about you, the Original Gypsy admits and accepts FOOLISHLY — IGNORANTLY when he accepts Sastras BUT simultaneously rejects the Instructions (Sastras) of HDG. Srila Prabhupada emphasizing contradictory again and again when he counteracts by stating FOOLISHLY – IGNORANTLY as such ; ” It is, imho, most ignorant to project time, place, circumstance instructions unto completely other time, place and circumstances. That’s what retarded dictators like to do. ”
From his above statement it is quite clear that this Gypsy condemns Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions given to all of US, His followers because this conditioned Jiva does accept and obey HDG. Srila Prabhupada’s – VANI, Instructions.
When we, the followers of the Instructions of Srila Prabhupada protect and promote as such, the followers of the living gurus of all sorts reject Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions and project US as a dictator stating Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions are subject to the time, place, circumstance instructions unto completely other time, place and circumstances. So, it means that Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions are not Transcendental but it is material that is why this Gypsy and all others living guru lovers reject Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions because Srila Prabhupada is dead.
Therefore, Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions are not valid any more unto completely other time, place and circumstances in which Gypsy and his other associates of living gurus are present.
Is my understanding correct, Gypsy ???????????
Answer it, Gypsy or else go and fly your kite some where else.
@Amar Puri
First try to understand that guru-disciple relationship is strictly individual. Then try to understand that nothing repeats itself in time and space. Become intelligent, if only theoretically in the beginning. You have to start somewhere isn’t it? Then perhaps try to become humble and become conscious of Krsna, because that is only what SP wants.
“Answer it, Gypsy or else go and fly your kite some where else.” It sure seems you want to be a dictatorial guru. Well, you’re not … Specifically not according to your own conviction: ONLY SP!!!, remember?
@Puranjana das
“And Banu’s writings are apparently more important than Srila Prabhupada’s writings. Banu swami says for example it is quite typical in the guru parampara from Krishna for the acharyas from Vaikuntha to be fallen i.e.: Womanizing drunkards, homosexuals, Las Vegas gamblers, people who run off with the wives of disciples, debauchees, drug addicts, people who advertise for using condoms for illicit sex, insane asylum refugees, people who run off to eat chicken, fish, meat and maybe even beef steaks, people who live in mansions while the deity lives in a ghetto, etc. and this is very typical of the behavior of acharyas in our parampara.”
Any proof for the above? Any context perhaps which might be essential? It’s easy to state negative things about others. It’s like gossipping, very, very easy. Ritviks seem to love it.
btw Do you all nicely stick to the four regs and chanting of 16 rounds Hare Krsna? I know this is not the case.
the Original Gypsy says: Indeed, ritviks just want to be dictatorial acaryas, under the guise of “o-n-l-y Srila Prabhupada!!!” Ritviks just try to hijack SP for their worldy propensities, like the fake Christians do. Away from the guru parampara, away from Sri Krsna.
No matter how many faults that you think you may have found with the Ritviks, it doesn’t change the fact that on July 9, 1977 Srila Prabhupada ordered that all future initiations within ISKCON be performed by “whichever [ritvik representative of the Acharya] is nearest.” (See: <http://rtvik.com/>) Therefore, “the Original Gypsy,” you’re barking up the wrong tree.
the Original Gypsy:Oh, so now the books of the great acharya Bhaktivinode Thakura are suddenly illegal. According to you … How convenient.
Mahesh: Not illegal – just that YOU folks are given to TWISTING the previous acaryas teachings to OPPOSE what Srila Prabhupada has said.
YOUR MOTIVE is: to COMPETE WITH SRILA PRABHUPADA SO to YOU WANT TO somehow EQUATE Srila Prabhupada with YOUR CONDITIONED SOUL “gurus”.
To put it BLUNTLY : We do NOT accept YOUR CONDITIONED SOUL “gurus”. ONLY CURRENT DIKSA GURU WE ACCEPT IS SRILA PRABHUPADA WHO AS LONG AS HIS BOOKS ARE ON THIS PLANET HE WILL BE **THE** DIKSA GURU.
73-12-25.Letter: Gurukrpa , Yasodanandana
Whatever is to be learned of the teachings of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura can be learned from our books. There is no need whatsoever for any outside instruction.
731208SB.LA Lectures
You cannot imagine what my spiritual master said. Or even if you read some books, you cannot understand unless you understand it from me. This is called parampara system. You cannot jump over to the superior guru, neglecting the next acarya, immediate next acarya.
Besides this, it is also well know that the Gaudiya math bogus CONDITIONED SOUL gurus are just NOT recognised – sorry!
SRILA PRABHUPADA’S GODBROTHERS
Srila Prabhupada’s Room Conversation, January 19, 1976, Mayapur
Bhavananda: “People are attracted by the Westerners coming to the matha. So if we’re up at that matha, any of us, and then they say, “Just see.” They say in Bengali, “Just see. They are coming. To see our guru maharaja, they are coming.”
Prabhupada: THAT WAS THE POLICY OF MADHAVA MAHARAJA AND SRIDHARA MAHARAJA, THAT “ALTHOUGH BHAKTIVEDANTA SWAMI IS PROPAGATING THROUGHOUT, HE IS SUBORDINATE TO US, UNDER OUR INSTRUCTION.” SO ALL THESE THREE.”
Viraha Astaka 1958
(Note: Ananta Vasudeva was the THIRD above mentioned)
“2) Your so-called disciple, the jackal named Ananta Vasudeva, disobeyed your final instructions to keep the mission united, and thereby created a scandalous fiasco.
The result of this philosophical deviation is evident to this day as imitative sahajiyas are being worshiped as gurus in your temples.
3) Is there a single temple to be found where your instructions are still being followed? As it is said: “punar musiko bhava”- Everyone has “again become a mouse.”
4) The lion’s food has been stolen away by the deceptive tricks of the jackal Now caught in Maya’s mighty clutches everyone is reduced to wailing and weeping.”
Srila Prabhupada’s Room Conversation, February 3, 1976, Mayapur
Prabhupada: “At least historically it be proved. (break) …cause of envy of my Godbrothers. I was known. Although they knew that Prabhupada liked me very much, because I am grhastha, I was known as paca-grhastha. PACA-GRHASTHA MEANS A ROTTEN GRHASTHA. And now they say, “This grhastha has come out more than us? What is this?” (break) Sridhara Maharaja’s chief disciple…?
Bhavananda: Gaura.
Prabhupada: HE ALWAYS USED TO SAY TO SRIDHARA MAHARAJA THAT “YOU ARE SEEING ABHAY BABU AS GRHASTHA, BUT HE IS MORE THAN MANY YOGIS.” HE WAS TELLING.”
Srila Prabhupada’s Room Conversation, April 22, 1977, Bombay
Prabhupada: “He cannot make any comment. These are facts. Two parties there were. One party, to use guru as their instrument for self-aggrandizement, and another party left guru. So both of them are offenders. This Kunja Babu, this Tirtha Maharaja’s party, he wanted to enjoy senses through guru. And the Bagh Bazaar party, they left.
Tamala Krsna: Vasudeva.
Prabhupada: So both of them are severe offenders.
Tamala Krsna: What about Sridhara Maharaja?
Prabhupada: SRIDHARA MAHARAJA BELONGED TO THE BAGH BAZAAR PARTY. And I was living aloof. My Guru Maharaja approved. He said, “It is better that he is aloof from them.”
Tamala Krsna: He could understand that his disciples were not…
Prabhupada: No, he was very sorry. AT THE LAST STAGE HE WAS DISGUSTED.”
Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Gaurasundara, August 26, 1972
“All along I HAVE BEEN DISCOURAGED IN EVERY WAY BY MY GODBROTHERS, but still I have stuck to my duty, keeping my Spiritual Master always in front.”
Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Krsna dasa, September 9, 1972
“MY GODBROTHERS ALWAYS DISCOURAGED ME BUT I DID NOT GIVE UP, I am doing my duty and always keeping my spiritual master in front. Even there is some difficulty or hardship, or even my godbrothers may not cooperate or there may be fighting, still, I must perform my duty to my spiritual master and not become discouraged and go away, that is my weakness.”
Srila Prabhupada’s Room Conversation, June 18, 1976, Toronto
Prabhupada: Daily night. And he was shocked. ONE OF MY GAUDIYA MATHA GODBROTHERS, BIG, HE BECAME THE HEAD OF THIS BHAG BAZAAR GAUDIYA MATHA. So his wife was debauched, and she was bringing new paramour, and the child protested.
Pusta Krsna: New?
Prabhupada: Paramour. And the boy, he was ten years or twelve years old, he could understand: “Who is this man?” So he protested and said, “I shall tell all these things to my father.” And he was killed.
Pusta Krsna: The boy was killed?
Prabhupada: By the mother.
Hari-sauri: She murdered him?
Prabhupada: Yes. Killed means given poison. And the father, that is, my Godbrother, seeing this, he also took poison. This is the end of Gaudiya Matha scandal. He was also one of the trustees. This Tirtha Maharaja was a trustee, and another Godbrother and this man. In the beginning, they were made trustees. In the beginning, Prabhupada was to undergo surgical operation. So he was a little nervous, that “I may die.” So he made a scrap paper, that “In case I die, these three disciples will be trustees of the Gaudiya Matha Institute.” That’s all. So this Kunja Babu kept this. There are many long histories. SO ONE OF THE SO-CALLED TRUSTEES WAS THIS VASUDEVA. So he died, his end was like this.
Pusta Krsna: His son was killed, isn’t it?
Prabhupada: His wife was a regular prostitute, and she killed her child, and on this shock, he took poison and died.
Pusta Krsna: He killed himself, oh.
Prabhupada: Naturally, he became shocked, that “This is my family life–the wife is prostitute and son is killed. What is the value of my life?” This was his spiritual realization. Just see. (laughs) AND HE WAS MADE THE CHIEF, AND ONE OF THE SUPPORTER WAS SRIDHARA MAHARAJA.
Pusta Krsna: Vasudeva Sridhara?
Prabhupada: No, no. He was made chief. Guru Maharaja did not make him chief. But after his passing away, some of our Godbrothers voted him chief.
Pusta Krsna: Am I mis…? You had told me once, I’m not certain. Maybe I made a mistake. YOU SAID THAT VASUDEVA, IT WAS KNOWN FACT THAT HE WAS HOMOSEX?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta Krsna: Vasudeva.
Prabhupada: HE WAS HOMOSEX AND SEX, EVERYTHING.
Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Pradyumna, February 17, 1968
“REGARDING THE BOOK LIST: “LORD GAURANGA” BY S.K. GHOSE AND VEDER PANCHAYA BY BON MAHARAJA ARE USELESS AND YOU MAY NOT GET THEM. The other books and the Gaudiya paper are acceptable. If you have free use of Xerox machine you may make copies, of some of the smaller works. REGARDING BHAKTI PURI, TIRTHA MAHARAJA, THEY ARE MY GOD-BROTHERS AND SHOULD BE SHOWN RESPECT. BUT YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE ANY INTIMATE CONNECTION WITH THEM AS THEY HAVE GONE AGAINST THE ORDERS OF MY GURU MAHARAJA.”
Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Niranjana, November 21, 1972
“If you are serious to be an important assistant in our Society you should fully engage yourself in translation work, AND DO NOT MIX YOURSELF WITH MY SO-CALLED GOD-BROTHERS. AS THERE ARE IN VRINDABAN SOME RESIDENTS LIKE MONKEYS AND HOGS, SIMILARLY THERE ARE MANY RASCALS IN THE NAME OF VAISNAVAS, be careful of them. And do not dare to question imprudently before your Spiritual Master. Further talks we may discuss when we meet.”
Srila Prabhupada’s Room Conversation, September 21, 1973, Bombay
Prabhupada: Yes. If by the dress of sannyasi, you take some money and eat and sleep, then it is transcendental fraud. (SP laughs) (Hindi) Just like others are toiling, and we are getting money by some dress. That’s all. They are getting money by laboring hard, and we are getting money… In India, mostly the sannyasis, they do that. The priests also, they do that. This is our profession, just… My Guru Maharaja said that thakura dekhiye paya rasta karache, rastaye ‘yandiya jivika badram karam bhari (?). Instead of earning livelihood by showing the Deity in the temple, it is better to take the profession of a sweeper in the street and live honestly. He said like that. The sweeper is working hard toiling and getting some money and living. This is honest living. But just like in Vrndavana, all the Goswamis. They have got their Deity. People are coming, contributing. Typical example, Gauracanda Goswami. Thakura dekhiye paisa rasta. (?) All the sevaites, they are meant for… Our Kunja Babu also planned like that. He thought, “By cheating all the God-brothers, I have got now Caitanya Matha. And people will come to see Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s birthplace, and I will get good income. And it will be distributed amongst my brothers and sons and myself. That’s all.” That is his scheme.
Tamala Krsna: Perfect material plan.
Prabhupada: Yes. It is another way of earning money. And he was always after Guru Maharaja only for this purpose. Guru Maharaja took that “Oh, this man is helping me.” But he had no such plan, to help Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. He had the plan, “Keep Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati in front, earn money, and put it in my pocket.” That was his very beginning. He was taking money like anything. But he was a good manager. Other God-brothers complained, sannyasis. Guru Maharaja used to say that “Why you are complaining? You cannot reform him, your God-brother? And if I would have to keep expert manager like him, I would have to pay something. Suppose he is taking something, why do you grudge?” (Prabhupada laughing) He would say like that. So nobody could say anything. But after the demise, everything burst out. “Kunja Babu must be driven out.” That was the whole plan of Gaudiya Matha breakdown. The grudge was against Kunja Babu.
Tamala Krsna: Who is Kunja Babu?
Prabhupada: That Tirtha Maharaja. His name is Kunja Vihari Sar. So that was boiling in everyone’s heart. So as soon as Guru Maharaja passed away, so that burst out. And the whole plan was how to get out this Kunja Babu.
Tamala Krsna: Not how to preach.
Prabhupada: No. This was the cause of breakdown. This was suppressed by Guru Maharaja under his influence, but the rebellious was there during his lifetime. And it burst into… Therefore he advised that “You make a governing body and Kunja Babu should be allowed to remain manager.” This was directly spoken. He never asked anybody to become acarya. He asked that “You form a governing body of twelve men and go on preaching, and Kunja Babu may be allowed to remain manager during his lifetime.” HE NEVER SAID THAT KUNJA BABU SHOULD BE ACARYA. NONE, NONE OF THEM WERE ADVISED BY GURU MAHARAJA TO BECOME ACARYA. HIS IDEA WAS “LET THEM MANAGE; THEN WHOEVER WILL BE ACTUAL QUALIFIED FOR BECOMING ACARYA, THEY WILL ELECT. WHY I SHOULD ENFORCE UPON THEM?” THAT WAS HIS PLAN. “LET THEM MANAGE BY STRONG GOVERNING BODY, AS IT IS GOING ON. THEN ACARYA WILL COME BY HIS QUALIFICATIONS.” But they wanted that… Because at heart, they were, “After demise of Guru, I shall become acarya.” “I shall become acarya.” So all the acaryas began fight. One side, that Vasudeva Acarya and Sar Kunja Babu Acarya. And Paramananda, he thought that “Whoever will be powerful, I shall join them.” (laughing) He only thought. But Guru Maharaja never asked that these three men should be trustees. He wanted governing body. So the rebellion broke out immediately after his passing away. And then fight in the High Court. And Kunja Babu, he is very intelligent man. So from the very beginning he knew that “There will be fight after the demise of Guru Maharaja. So fight will be in the High Court. So at the expense of Guru Maharaja, let my brother and sons become attorneys and barrister so I will have not to pay all these things.” It was a planned thing. And that is being done. He was a clerk, it was not in his power to make his brother and sons attorneys and barristers. They were all made at the cost of Gaudiya Matha to fight with (indistinct) in favor of Tirtha Maharaja. These were the planned things. But I was a rotten grhastha. I did not join any one of them. (Prabhupada laughs) I was rotting in my household life. That’s all. But I was planning how to make, how to make this. That was my desire from the very beginning, since I heard it. But I was never with them, either this party or that party. And Guru Maharaja also recommended, apnader tasturi tublia thaki bhavan. Takhona (?). “When there will be need, he will do himself. There is no need of living with you. It is better to live apart from you.” When I was recommended by Goswami Maharaja to live in the Matha, that “He is so nice.” Sometimes he recommended. In Bombay, here in this Bombay. That house. Yes. He (Guru Maharaja) said “Yes, he is very expert. He can do. So it is better to live apart from you. And he will do everything when there is need.” He said. I could not understand. Although I was apart from them, a grhastha. In this Bombay I was doing business.” (people talking outside)
Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Gurudasa, August 29, 1972
“Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated August 23, 1972, and I have noted the contents carefully. Do not be depressed. ALL ALONG MY GODBROTHERS GAVE ME ONLY DEPRESSION, REPRESSION, COMPRESSION–BUT I CONTINUED STRONG IN MY DUTY.”
Srila Prabhupada’s Discussion on the Evolutionists
“UNLESS YOU SURRENDER, WHERE IS THE COOPERATION? Where is the cooperation? Just like all my disciples, because they have surrendered, so there is cooperation. Therefore this movement is increasing.”
Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Tirtha Maharaja, November 8, 1965
“Kindly accept respectful obeisances at your lotus feet. Since I have come to the United States of America I had several correspondence with Sripada Govinda Maharaja. While I was in Calcutta at that time as well as in our different exchange of letters there was some hint from Sripada Govinda Maharaja, I should work in cooperation with your holiness and in my last letter I have already expressed my readiness to cooperate with your holiness and I had to ask from Govinda Maharaja as to the basic principle of that cooperation. BEFORE I TOOK SANNYASA PERHAPS YOU WILL REMEMBER IT THAT I PROPOSED TO JOIN YOU IF MY PUBLICATIONS WERE TAKEN UP. BUT SOME HOW OR OTHER IT WAS NOT POSSIBLE AND WE MISSED THE CHANCE.”
Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Jayapataka, August 23, 1971
“SO FAR AS COOPERATING WITH MY GODBROTHERS IS CONCERNED, THAT IS NOT VERY URGENT BUSINESS. SO FAR UNTIL NOW MY GODBROTHERS HAVE REGULARLY NOT COOPERATED WITH ME AND BY THE GRACE OF MY SPIRITUAL MASTER, THINGS ARE STILL GOING AHEAD. SO COOPERATION OR NON-COOPERATION, IT IS THE DESIRE OF BHAKTIVINODE THAKURA TO PREACH THE CAITANYA CULT ALL OVER THE WORLD AND IN 1875 HE PREDICTED THAT SOMEONE WOULD COME VERY SOON WHO WOULD INDIVIDUALLY PREACH THIS CULT ALL OVER THE WORLD. SO IF HIS BENEDICTION IS THERE AND MY GURU MAHARAJA’S BLESSINGS ARE THERE, WE CAN GO AHEAD WITHOUT ANY IMPEDIMENT BUT ALL OF US MUST BE VERY SINCERE AND SERIOUS. We have been a little inflicted by public criticism that we Godbrothers do not work together. My Guru Maharaja wanted also us to work together but some how or other it hasn’t happened up until now. So your program of cooperating with Madhava Maharaja is not so important. Best thing is that all we Godbrothers work together. Then the criticism will stop, otherwise even we join together, criticism will go on. So this has been going on for the last 24 years, but everyone of us is doing his best keeping Lord Caitanya in the center. We should be satisfied so much.”
Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Acyutananda, June 08, 1974
“You should not write anything to Madhava Maharaja’s camp. You may have talked many things with Mangala Niloy but why write him in black and white. The letter must not be sent. THEIR POLICY HAS BEEN ALL ALONG TO SUPPRESS ME AND TAKE CREDIT FOR HIMSELF. THEIR PROPOSAL FOR COOPERATION IS A MYTH. THEY HAVEN’T DONE ANYTHING WHICH IS COOPERATIVE. YOU KNOW IN A RECENT ARTICLE THEY MANAGED TO WRITE IN SUCH A WAY THAT MADHAVA IS DOING THE WORLD MOVEMENT AND WE ARE HIS SUBORDINATE. FROM THE BEGINNING THAT HAS BEEN THEIR MENTALITY. SO THERE IS NO POSSIBILITY OF COOPERATION WITH THEM. RATHER YOU SHOULD AVOID STRICTLY MEETING WITH THEM. THEY ARE NOT AFTER PREACHING BUT MATERIAL GAIN AND REPUTATION AND ADORATION. OTHERWISE WHY THEY ARE NON COOPERATING WITH ME? SO NO COOPERATION IS POSSIBLE. Do not think or indulge in loose talks. Be careful always. Let us do the duty of propagation sincerely and seriously on our own principles. Krsna and Srila Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura are our only hope and they and helping us. If anything thing has to be done it is to be talked on the higher level between Madhava Maharaja and myself, but I know his mentality is different and there is no possibility of cooperation.”
Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Pradyumna, February 17, 1968
“Regarding the book list: “Lord Gauranga” by S.K. Ghose and Veder Panchaya by Bon Maharaja ARE USELESS and you may not get them.”
Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Sukadeva, November 14, 1973
“Regarding the Gaudiya Math books being circulated there, who is distributing? Who is sending these books? The Gaudiya Math does not sell our books, why we should sell their books. Who has introduced these books? Let me know. THESE BOOKS SHOULD NOT AT ALL BE CIRCULATED IN OUR SOCIETY. BHAKTI VILAS TIRTHA IS VERY MUCH ANTAGONISTIC TO OUR SOCIETY AND HE HAS NO CLEAR CONCEPTION OF DEVOTIONAL SERVICE. HE IS CONTAMINATED. ANYWAY, WHO HAS INTRODUCED THESE BOOKS? YOU SAY THAT YOU WOULD READ ONLY ONE BOOK IF THAT WAS ALL THAT I HAD WRITTEN, SO YOU TEACH OTHERS TO DO LIKE THAT. You have very good determination.”
Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Visvakarma, November 09, 1975
“Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated September 3, 1975 with the enclosed statement about Van Maharaja. So I have now issued orders that all my disciples should avoid all of my godbrothers. THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE ANY DEALINGS WITH THEM NOR EVEN CORRESPONDENCE, NOR SHOULD THEY GIVE THEM ANY OF MY BOOKS OR SHOULD THEY PURCHASE ANY OF THEIR BOOKS, NEITHER SHOULD YOU VISIT ANY OF THEIR TEMPLES. PLEASE AVOID THEM.”
Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Rupanuga, April 28, 1974
“You are right about Sridhara Maharaja’s genuineness. But in my opinion he is the best of the lot. He is my old friend, AT LEAST HE EXECUTES THE REGULATIVE PRINCIPLES OF DEVOTIONAL SERVICE. I do not wish to discuss about activities of my Godbrothers but it is a fact they have no life for preaching work. All are satisfied with a place for residence in the name of a temple, they engage disciples to get foodstuff by transcendental devices and eat and sleep. They have no idea or brain how to broacast the cult of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. My Guru Maharaja used to lament many times for this reason and he thought if one man at least had understood the principle of preaching then his mission would achieve success. In the latter days of my Guru Maharaja he was very disgusted. Actually, he left this world earlier, otherwise he would have continued to live for more years. Still he requested his disciples to form a strong Governing body for preaching the cult of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. HE NEVER RECOMMENDED ANYONE TO BE ACARYA OF THE GAUDIYA MATH. BUT SRIDHARA MAHARAJA IS RESPONSIBLE FOR DISOBEYING THIS ORDER OF GURU MAHARAJA, AND HE AND OTHERS WHO ARE ALREADY DEAD UNNECESSARILY THOUGHT THAT THERE MUST BE ONE ACARYA. If Guru Maharaja could have seen someone who was qualified at that time to be acarya he would have mentioned. Because on the night before he passed away he talked of so many things, but never mentioned an acarya. His idea was acarya was not to be nominated amongst the governing body. He said openly you make a GBC and conduct the mission. So his idea was amongst the members of GBC who would come out successful and self effulgent acarya would be automatically selected. So Sridhara Maharaja and his two associate gentlemen unauthorizedly selected one acarya and later it proved a failure. THE RESULT IS NOW EVERYONE IS CLAIMING TO BE ACARYA EVEN THOUGH THEY MAY BE KANISTHA ADHIKARI WITH NO ABILITY TO PREACH. IN SOME OF THE CAMPS THE ACARYA IS BEING CHANGED THREE TIMES A YEAR. THEREFORE WE MAY NOT COMMIT THE SAME MISTAKE IN OUR ISKCON CAMP. ACTUALLY AMONGST MY GODBROTHERS NO ONE IS QUALIFIED TO BECOME ACARYA. SO IT IS BETTER NOT TO MIX WITH MY GODBROTHERS VERY INTIMATELY BECAUSE INSTEAD OF INSPIRING OUR STUDENTS AND DISCIPLES THEY MAY SOMETIMES POLLUTE THEM. This attempt was made previously by them, especially Madhava Maharaja and Tirtha Maharaja and Bon Maharaja but somehow or other I saved the situation. This is going on. We shall be very careful about them and not mix with them. This is my instruction to you all. They cannot help us in our movement, but they are very competent to harm our natural progress. So we must be very careful about them.”
Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Subala, October 15, 1974
“This is the motto of our spiritual life: yasya prasadad bhagavata prasadao. MY OTHER GODBROTHERS THEY ARE CONCERNED WITH LITIGATIONS, POLITICS, AND DIPLOMACY, SO WHAT IS THE PRACARA? AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED I HAVE THE BLESSINGS OF MY GURU MAHARAJ. I DO NOT NEED ANYTHING ELSE. That is how I went to your country, just to try to carry out his order. By his blessings it has come out successful.”
Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Gangamayi, October 18, 1974
“YOU ARE RIGHT THAT POLITICS SHOULD BE AVOIDED. IN MY PERSONAL LIFE I DID NOT PARTICIPATE IN THE POLITICAL DIPLOMACY OF MY GOD-BROTHERS. I WAS SIMPLY THINKING HOW TO FULFILL THE ORDER OF MY GURU MAHARAJ. HE GAVE ME HIS BLESSINGS, AND I WAS SAVED FROM ANY IMPLICATION. NOW I AM TRYING TO CARRY OUT HIS INSTRUCTIONS STRICTLY, AND IT HAS COME OUT SUCCESSFUL.”
Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Mukunda, March 26, 1968
“In meantime, I have also received one letter which is very depressing from Hrsikesa. I understand that he has been induced by Bon Maharaja to be initiated by him for giving him shelter, and this foolish boy has accepted his inducement. This isn’t very happy news, and I have replied Hrsikesa’s letter in the following words, which please take note, and in the future, we shall be very cautious about them. “My Dear Hrsikesa, Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter of March 14, 1968, and I am greatly surprised. I AM GREATLY SURPRISED FOR BON MAHARAJA’S INITIATING YOU IN SPITE OF HIS KNOWING THAT YOU ARE ALREADY INITIATED BY ME. SO IT IS DELIBERATE TRANSGRESSION OF VAISNAVA ETIQUETTES AND OTHERWISE A DELIBERATE INSULT TO ME. I DO NOT KNOW WHY HE HAS DONE LIKE THIS BUT NO VAISNAVA WILL APPROVE OF THIS OFFENSIVE ACTION. I very much appreciate your acknowledgement of my service unto you and you will always have my blessings, BUT YOU MUST KNOW THAT YOU HAVE COMMITTEE. A GREAT BLUNDER. I do not wish to discuss on this point more elaborately now, but if you are desirous to know further about it, I shall be glad to give you more enlightenment. Mukunda is not here. He has gone to L.A. Hope you are well.” If Hrsikesa writes you letter I think you may avoid reply. I DO NOT APPROVE BOTH HRSIKESA’S AND BON MAHARAJA’S THIS OFFENSIVE ACTION. Hoping you are both well.”
Hare Krishna!
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada!
the Original Gypsy: Definitely I follow SP and the guru parampara, therefore I have become conscious of Sri Krsna. That, of course, is what the guru wants for his disciples …
Mahesh: You are a BLUFFER! YOU have your OWN agenda. So go worship some CONDITIONED SOUL bogus guru.
Take that animals footbath PUKE —ENJOY!
Why do you want to come to a site that is EXCLUSIVE SRILA PRABHUPADA AS CURRENT DIKSA GURU?
I think that this “the Original Gypsy” guy is Raja Gopala dasa his thoughts are similar.
These types are all a bunch of MONEY SCREWING SLAVE MAKING CROOKS they want to present themselves as followers of Srila Prabhupada BUT they choose to want to USE Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura’s or Srila Bhaktisiddhanta sarasvati Thakura’s NAME as a front to OPPOSE the teachings of Srila Prabhupada. The way they do this is to MANIPULATE the previous acaryas words so as to make it sound that their CONDITIONED soul bunch is accepted as diksa guru.
Basically, BOTH the Gaudiya Math conditioned souls and bogus GBC voted conditioned souls want to be WORSHIPED AS GOOD AS GOD(DIKSA GURU). This means they are DEMONS:
Bg 16.4 T The Divine And Demoniac Natures
dambho darpo ‘bhimanas ca
krodhah parusyam eva ca
ajnanam cabhijatasya
partha sampadam asurim
SYNONYMS
dambhah–pride; darpah–arrogance; abhimanah–conceit; ca–and; krodhah–anger; parusyam–harshness; eva–certainly; ca–and; ajnanam–ignorance; ca–and; abhijatasya–one who is born of; partha–O son of Prtha; sampadam–nature; asurim–demoniac.
TRANSLATION
Arrogance, pride, anger, conceit, harshness and ignorance–these qualities belong to those of demoniac nature, O son of Prtha.
PURPORT
In this verse, the royal road to hell is described. THE DEMONIAC WANT TO MAKE A SHOW OF RELIGION AND ADVANCEMENT IN SPIRITUAL SCIENCE, ALTHOUGH THEY DO NOT FOLLOW THE PRINCIPLES. They are always arrogant or proud in possessing some type of education or so much wealth. THEY DESIRE TO BE WORSHIPED BY OTHERS, AND DEMAND RESPECTABILITY, ALTHOUGH THEY DO NOT COMMAND RESPECT. Over trifles they become very angry and speak harshly, not gently. THEY DO NOT KNOW WHAT SHOULD BE DONE AND WHAT SHOULD NOT BE DONE. THEY DO EVERYTHING WHIMSICALLY, ACCORDING TO THEIR OWN DESIRE, AND THEY DO NOT RECOGNIZE ANY AUTHORITY. These demoniac qualities are taken on by them from the beginning of their bodies in the wombs of their mothers, and as they grow they manifest all these inauspicious qualities.
Ritviks are truly amazing. They are very, very, very surrendered, determined, fixed. They have only one problem. They will never become conscious of Sri Krsna, the Supreme Absolute Truth. However, they can shake hands with the fake Christians very nicely. Also with the Salafists btw.
Kali yuga is of course a pool of crazyness and fanatism, that Srila Vyasadeva and SP very nicely explain in sastra.
Real Gypsy: Try to understand, your Prabhupada appointed Harikes, Bhavananda, Jayatirtha, Ramesvara, Kirtananda, Hansadutta, Bhagavan, Tamal, SDG, etc. to sit on the vyasasana and initiate their own disciples…this is your Prabhupada…
Hm, yet another professor of Sanskrit trying to turn Prabhupada into an err is human….underpinning his thesis with: you’re a bunch of fools. Figuring a punch below belt will confirm his idea?
Next one please! Is there another Raja Gopala, Gypsy? There seems a whole nest of narakis in the Netherlands?
@Bhaktin Rose
Perhaps you should take initiation from a physically present guru. Then you would be lovingly chastised so you could make nice spiritual advancement. But do you have the intelligence and the guts?
the Original Gypsy(Raja Gopala das) says:
2. September 2013 at 11:18 am
@Bhaktin Rose
Perhaps you should take initiation from a physically present guru. Then you would be lovingly chastised so you could make nice spiritual advancement. But do you have the intelligence and the guts?
Mahesh: Bhaktin Rose is NOT SENTIMENTAL —-like YOU. You have to grow-up. We P-R-A-B-H-U-P-A-D-A-N-U-G-U-A-S accept ONLY Srila Prabhuapda as DIKSA GURU you folks have no brains left with drinking footbath PUKE of your CONDITIONED SOUL BABOON masters.
@”Ritviks will never become conscious of Sri Krsna, the Supreme Absolute Truth. However, they can shake hands with the fake Christians very nicely.”
It is of course like that that whenever we discuss with ISKCONites what is genuine guru-tattva, Prabhupada’s appointment of ritviks they simply put you off the scent. They only pretend to discuss but carefully set you on the wrong track, leave people in the dark. The whole issue is rather – at least in Europe – to turn Prabhupada’s temples and farms into private properties.
Whenever somebody is asking “incorrect” (but legitimate question) they start to bully around till that poor fellow isn’t seen anymore. In this way Europe’s Gaudiya-matha increased and increased. Just because ISKCON leaders want to grab all those properties.
So this is nothing new. Prabhupada: My Guru Maharaja was lamenting that, ‘These men, they did not publish any number of books. They are simply after this stone and bricks.’ He condemned. He was very, very sorry. (July 25 1976, London)
Prabhupadanugas are not fooled by this maneuver, and this is what makes ISKCONites slightly unamused. Thousands of ex-ISKCONites left for good and this is what Euro GBC greatly appreciates, to “honestly divide” among themselves all those properties.
The thing is taken dishonestly, and they are dividing honestly. This is going on, whole world. Temples, farms, donated by sincere devotees is now taken dishonestly, and when there is question of division, the GBC honestly divides it. The association of the honest men, GBC.
And Prabhupadanugas given a slap to make them join somewhere else, or, this is what they realy like, to start their own mini mission. So all this ruffian fuss is simply bluff. They know very well that they captured properties worth millions and this is their only concern – to send you off with a flea in the ear.
yshd
Real Gypsy: Try to understand, your Prabhupada appointed Harikes, Bhavananda, Jayatirtha, Ramesvara, Kirtananda, Hansadutta, Bhagavan, Tamal, SDG, etc. to sit on the vyasasana and initiate their own disciples…this is your Prabhupada…
PADA: OK our devotees in Vrndavana offered a $108,000 reward in the UP newspapers for any evidence that 11 gurus had been appointed. No evidence has ever been submitted? Srila Prabhupada said in January of 1977, they are not even fit for sannyasa. He never said they were the next Vyasadevas? This means, real gypsy accepts the GBC lie that the 11 were appointed as gurus. He is a disciple of the bogus GBC. ys pd]
This Gypsy guy is the same Raja Gopala dasa who has never answered any of my questions and yet he goes around in circle giving out of context answer as it has been seen in his comments. The pattern of his answer is the same. No change except the name is changed to GYPSY.
These people are preaching Krsna Consciousness all in the name of Srila Prabhupada and His mission. Can you believe it ? So much cheating is going around in the present Iskcon gurus of all sorts and their followers. The proof is right here, this GYPSY conditioned Jiva. Unbelievable. Isn’t it ?
WHY these people come to preach people who are following the REAL Instructions of Srila Prabhupada ?
Well the answer is quite clear that we the followers of Srila Prabhupada’s VANI are obstacles and hindrances in their bogus gurus preaching. That is why this type of GYPSY, Raja Gopala dasa and co come to this Prabhupada’s site to preach their bogus gurus philosophy and they get kicked out because these people (Gypsy, Raja gopala dasa and co.) they speak against the Instructions of Srila Prabhupada.
What can any body do in that situation ?
Simply ignore because they are IGNORANT and choose to remain in IGNORANCE. That is their free will of the Jivas as discussed in my comments.
Hari BOL.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
“They are not even fit for sannyasa” Well, it was SP who awarded them sannaysa. When SP gave these young, enthousiastic Americans sannyasa while he knew many would not be able to maintain their position SP is definitely also responsible for the social turmoil they every know and then certainly caused. And responsible for their psychological disfunctioning also. Like SP accused his wife for the disfunctioning of their son who turned crazy and ended up being a tramp on the streets of Calcutta. As if SP was not their dutybound husband and father.
Of course, the above is only SP’s and Sri Krsna’s pastime, that we all know. Don’t forget to mention this when you start very selectively and angrily quoting me …
Apart from the ritvik “guru confusion”, it is important to understand that only in the beginning stages one needs a guru, or Sri Krsna directly (BG 3.9).
When you’re in the brahma bhuta state of consciousness there is no need for a guru anymore. Actions and relations become sponteneous. On that platform there are no guru’s or disciples. Guru and disciple is very important on the awe and reverence platform. A very important platform in the beginning stages of bhakti, as stepping stone. But if one does not even understand the temporary positon of Lord Brahma, how can one understand this bona fide transcendental info?
The relationship between guru and disciple is indeed eternal. Eternal in the material energy. This also ritviks don’t understand. Truly, what do they understand? Lack of philosophical understanding is always very unhandy. Ritviks become only experts in very dry quoting because of it.
btw In the CC it is exactly stated what the conditions are to become guru. The only one who needs to authorise it is the faithful disciple. He is of course the superior authority, no one else. Indeed, vaisnava tattva goed beyond all worldly logic. Luckily, I might add.
SP many, many times preached on the kanishta and madhyama adhikari platform. The platforms ritviks seek Absolute Truth in …
And for the 108,000 USD challenge; why would anyone be interested in such a challenge? I would certainly throw it away, wouldn’t be interested in it one nanosecond, knowing from what people the challenge did come from.
My Iskcon guru, a very faithful SP disciple, gave me Sri Krsna, that is what I definitely know. And that is what counts. Not your envy, ignorance and funny wannabe dictatorial vibrations.
the Original Gypsy(Raja Gopala das): SP many, many times preached on the kanishta and madhyama adhikari platform.
Mahesh: Srila Prabhupada preached on MADHYAMA platform NOT Kanistha platform. Uttama adhikari comes to the platform of Madhyma to preach not Kanistha level.
770124LE.BHU Lectures
Prabhupada: But a guru, although he is paramahamsa, because he is teaching, he come down as madhyama-adhikari. There are three kinds of Vaisnava: kanistha adhikari, madhyama adhikari and uttama adhikari. Uttama adhikari may be without kunti, without sikha, without Vaisnava symptoms. He’s paramahamsa. But when he comes to the preaching platform he must become a madhyama adhikari, not to imitate uttama adhikari, because he has to teach. He cannot deviate from the teaching principles. So what you are speaking, that “Without sikha without kunti, one can become guru,” that is fact for the paramahamsa, not for the preacher. Preacher must behave very nicely.
the Original Gypsy(Raja Gopala das):When you’re in the brahma bhuta state of consciousness there is no need for a guru anymore. Actions and relations become sponteneous. On that platform there are no guru’s or disciples.
Mahesh: That is just nonsense! Srila Prabhupada was on UTTAMA-ADHIKARI stage and he still needed his guru—and so did the WHOLE Parampara disciplic succcession of Acaryas otherwise WHY quote previous acaryas?
Wow ……. this guy Gypsy and Raja Gopala dasa is one and the same hiding under different name.
I wonder why this insane person is still around giving his out of context answer to the questions put forth to him with regard to his nonsense writing i.e. Iskcon’s bogus guru philosophy in which his DEVIANT so called bona fide guru is one of the self made guru ?
What is the problem of this conditioned jiva Raja Gopala Gypsy protecting and promoting the bogus philosophy of his DEVIANT guru on the web site of Srila Prabhupada’s followers who expose and reject such bogus gurus and their followers ?
Raja Gopala Gypsy, you are supposed to fly your kite with your guru and associates. Why are you wasting your time here if you and your guru have NO answer to the questions I put forth on this forum ???
Speak up or else get busy washing the dirty feet of your deviant guru whose feet is not only dirty but his heart is also dirty because he chose to be a guru himself as good as Srila Prabhupada and you chose to be his disciple. What a perfect match, Isn’t it ?????
the Original Gypsy(Raja Gopala das): Well, it was SP who awarded them sannaysa. When SP gave these young, enthousiastic Americans sannyasa while he knew many would not be able to maintain their position SP is definitely also responsible for the social turmoil they every know and then certainly caused.
Mahesh: Even in ordinary cases if a driving examiner passes a candidate this does NOT mean that the examiner is responsible for the many accidents that the candidate would cause. The candidate has passed the examination BUT he is STILL ACCOUNTABLE FOR HIS ACTIONS ON ROAD. It is the CANDIDATE who has to SORT his OWN actions. He has just been given a CHANCE – that’s all.
Srila Prabhupada gave them a chance – that is all!
@Amar Puri
First develop the quality of “properly reading”, then there wouldn’t be the need to repeat yourself over and over again about “answering”.
@Mahesh Raja
“Mahesh: That is just nonsense! Srila Prabhupada was on UTTAMA-ADHIKARI stage and he still needed his guru—and so did the WHOLE Parampara disciplic succcession of Acaryas otherwise WHY quote previous acaryas?”
Hahaha, that’s just SP preaching on the madhyama adhikari platform. And the madhyama adhikari platform gives space for preaching on the kanistha adhikari platform. Remember, pure devotees are not bound by any external law or convention.
But perhaps more important in this context; what’s the quality of intelligence of those on the receptive side? In this, ritviks lack brains. They can only judge on externals and formalities. That’s why they will never reach Sri Krshna, the sole purpose of spiritual life. Unless they become humble, of course.
@Mahesh Raja
“Srila Prabhupada gave them a chance — that is all!
Analogies are just very partial comparisons. Nice to impress beginners, perhaps.
When SP knew many would not be able to maintain their position it has been most irresponsible of him to award them these exalted positions. Destroying the psyche and lives of young, enthousiastic and sometimes naïve followers is not very nice.
But of course, in the grand scheme of thing this is just all part of the pastimes of Sri Krshna. So on balance everything is perfect, always.
the Original Gypsy says: …it was SP who awarded them sannaysa…SP is definitely also responsible for the social turmoil…
In many cases, it was the only way that Srla Prabhupada could keep them on-board and get them to stop being more trouble than they were worth.
A simple sannyasi falling down doesn’t cause any significant “social turmoil.” The problem is that they disobeyed Prabhupada and took on “disciples” on their own behalf. Then when they fall down, especially if they have thousands of “disciples,” it does cause “social turmoil.” But Srila Prabhupada never authorized them to do that, so it’s certainly not his responsibility..
the Original Gypsy(Raja Gopala das): My Iskcon guru, a very faithful SP disciple, gave me Sri Krsna,…
Mahesh: From the year 1966 to 1977, Srila Prabhupada did NOT give ANY order to anyone SPECIFICALLY, “YOU become guru,” so HOW can you say that they are diksa guru?
IF Srila Prabhupada would have ordered BEFORE 1977, then there would be no point in 1977 of him stating in 1977 WHEN I order. It was SPECIFICALLY in the year 1977 that Srila Prabhupada said “WHEN I order” NOT before, so AFTER the year 1977, WHERE is the evidence of THAT order?
Prabhupada: “When I order, “You become guru,” he becomes regular guru. That’s all. He becomes disciple of my disciple. That’s it.”
(Srila Prabhupada Conversation, May 28, 1977, Vrindavan)
“Self-made guru cannot be guru. HE MUST BE AUTHORIZED BY THE BONA FIDE GURU. Then he’s guru. This is the fact…Similarly, bona fide guru means he must be authorized by the superior guru.”
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture on Nectar of Devotion, October 31. 1972)
“One should take initiation from a bona fide spiritual master coming in the disciplic succession, who is AUTHORIZED BY HIS PREDECESSOR SPIRITUAL MASTER. This is called diksa-vidhana.”
(Srimad Bhagavatam 4.8.54, purport)
Prabhupada: “Try to understand. Don’t go very speedily. A GURU CAN BECOME GURU WHEN HE’S ORDERED BY HIS GURU. That’s all. Otherwise nobody can become guru.
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture on Bhagavad-gita 7.2, Nairobi, October 28, 1975)
If you have a diksa guru, then how is he a guru since he has not been authorised by Srila Prabhupada? Authority by mental speculation is your authority?
Prabhupada: What is the use of producing some rascal guru?
Tamala Krsna: Well, I have studied myself and all of your disciples, and it’s clear fact that we are ALL CONDITIONED souls, so we cannot be guru. Maybe one day it may be possible…
Prabhupada:Hm.
Tamala Krsna: …but not now.
Prabhupada: Yes. I shall choose some guru. I shall SAY, “Now you become ACARYA. You become authorized.” I am waiting for that. You become all acarya. I retire completely. But the training must be complete.
(Srila Prabhupada Room Conversation, Bombay, April 22, 1977)
Guru MUST be on uttama-adhikari (maha-bhagavata) stage. But aside from that, he needs an ORDER from his Guru to be ACARYA. The word DIKSITAH refers to DIKSA – ONLY Maha-Bhagavata is referred to as GIVING Diksa:
Madhya 24.330 — The Sixty-One Explanations of the Atmarama Verse:
“In the Padma Purana, the characteristics of the guru, the bona fide spiritual master, have been described:
MAHA-BHAGAVATA-srestho
brahmano vai gurur nrnam
sarvesam eva lokanam
asau pujyo yatha harih
maha-kula-prasuto ‘pi
sarva-yajnesu DIKSITAH
sahasra-sakhadhyayi ca
na guruh syad avaisnavah
The guru MUST be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service. There are three classes of devotees, and the guru MUST be accepted from the topmost class. The first-class devotee is the spiritual master for all kinds of people.
Prabhupada: “When I order, “You become guru,” he becomes regular guru. That’s all. He becomes disciple of my disciple. That’s it.”
(Srila Prabhupada Conversation, May 28, 1977, Vrindavan)
There was NO ORDER from Srila Prabhupada NAMING ANY individual to be Diksa guru. The ONLY order was to act as Rtvik, July 9th 1977. NOTHING MORE!!!
In conclusion: Srila Prabhupada did NOT order, name, or authorise anyone as Acarya. FACT. But in spite of that, if one is worshipping those unauthorized conditioned souls as good as God (acarya), then it is the same as one animal worships another animal:
Life Comes From Life:
Srila Prabhupada. “Yes, that is stated in Srimad-Bhagavatam: sva-vid-varahostra-kharaih samstutah purusah pasuh. This verse indicates that those who praise men who are like animals are no better than dogs, hogs, camels and asses. Sva means “dog,” vid-varaha means “stool-eating hog,” ustra means “camel,” and khara means “ass.” If the Nobel Prize is given to a scientist who is a rascal, the men on the committee who give him that prize are no better than dogs, hogs, camels and asses. We don’t accept them as human beings. One animal is praised by another animal. Where is the credit in that? If the men on the committee are no better than animals, anyone who receives the Nobel Prize in science is fool number one, because animals are praising him, not human beings.”
Srila Prabhupada said in January of 1977, suspend sannyasa, no more Sannyasa, they are falling down and making a laughingstock of sannyasa, and really — they should just get married.
Then, in January of 1978, the Original Gypsy’s guru was saying that these same people, the same identical group that are not fit for sannyasa, are — acharyas, Vishnupadas, Krishnapadas, Gurupadas, Acharyapadas etc.
That means the guru of the Original Gypsy does not even know that people who are not fit for sannyasa –are not gurus and messiahs from God? And people who are lusty and thus should get married are not fit to use these titles and nomenclatures?
And the program of the guru of the Original Gypsy even made Jayatirtha a sannyasa and guru, after he had had “illicit affairs” problems already even before he came to England. And he was later caught taking drugs and having illicit sex after 1978, and the Original Gypsy’s guru program still re-instated Jayatirtha as a guru and sannyasa — knowing he was engaged in these deviations.
And then they rubber stamped another 100 sannyasas, despite being told not to. And not only that, they said these unfit sannyasas are acharyas, yes — immediately after Srila Prabhupada had said this is forbidden, so suspend sannyasa. And now the situation is, the GBC has said that the gurus, the “external manifestations of God,” are a pack of debauchees.
Sorry, any ten year old child knows a pack of debauchees are not “gurus from heaven.” Srila Prabhupada says you can put a crown on a dog and put him on the throne and make him the king, but as soon as you toss a bone, the dog will jump off the throne to get the bone. Anyway, very few people are still supporting the Original Gypsy’s illicit sex messiahs club, its falling apart fast. ys pd
@Mahesh Raja
Anyone who is qualified can be guru. You don’t need anyones authority apart form the faithful disciple.
SP never received instruction form his guru maharaja to become diksa guru, never.
This Gypsy is back with his non sense answer when he writes ; ” @Amar Puri
First develop the quality of “properly reading”, then there wouldn’t be the need to repeat yourself over and over again about “answering”.
Yes, there is a need to get the answer, Gypsy. Do you see it ? No, because you do not have the quality of properly reading and understanding the Instructions of Srila Prabhupada. Not only properly reading of Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions, but simple questions which are put forth to you in this forum by me in reply to your bogus philosophy of your bogus gurus remain unanswered on account of lacking your properly reading and understanding of it. Is it not a FACT ? Yet you are still here answering out of context showing your ignorance over and over again.
What is your problem, Gypsy ?
Why are you hiding your name from Raja gopala to Gypsy ?
What is your motive ?
Is that not the reason why you are hiding to reveal the name of your bogus guru because your guru is a cheater as you are a cheater yourself hiding your identity in two different names ?
I hope you properly read what you write before you give a nonsense answer again.
Answer the above questions, Cheater Gypsy or Raja Gopala Gypsy who so ever you are.
@Puranajna das
What your status, are you liberated?
@Puranjana das
“Srila Prabhupada said in January of 1977, suspend sannyasa, no more Sannyasa, they are falling down and making a laughingstock of sannyasa, and really — they should just get married.”
So he didn’t notice this when he gave sannyasa to these very young, enthousiastic followers … Perhaps SP made many, many mistakes. It’s known he awarded sannyasa even to homosexuals and pedophiles like Kirtanandana crazy das.
Perhaps SP just couldn’t go beyond his own references and being an aggressive person he ordered like anything. But always to his disciples (not like ritviks who make futile and funny attemps to order to everyone, completely unasked for).
Nevertheless, it’s a pretty serious psychological disadvantage, not being able to go beyond your own references.
Luckily their is a higher platform of realisation and judging. A level far, far beyond your scope of analysis.
You just seem to be a traumatised person.
Here is an other example of nonsense reply from Gypsy ; the Original Gypsy says:
3. September 2013 at 4:46 pm
@Mahesh Raja
Anyone who is qualified can be guru. You don’t need anyones authority apart form the faithful disciple.
SP never received instruction form his guru maharaja to become diksa guru, never.”
Gypsy, do you properly read the Instructions of the founder acaraya of Iskcon HDG. Srila Prabhupada when he says that He has no any SUCCESSOR in His Iskcon. BAS.
Do you properly read and understand this simple instructions of Srila Prabhupada ?
Where is the question of accepting ones’ own disciple in the Institution of Srila Prabhupada when He prohibits so ?
Therefore, is your philosophy not DEVIANT and so is your DEVIANT guru accepting you as his disciple in the Institution of Srila Prabhupada when He says that He has not authorized any of His disciples as a SUCCESSOR ???
That is why your answers are all nonsense, Gypsy boy. Go and fly your kite where you are good at it. Do not come back and write nonsense answer again.
Hope it meets you well, Gypsy – Raja Gopala.
@”Perhaps SP made many, many mistakes”
Mr.Gypsy, plz stop commenting. Your comments will be deleted. You have no understanding of sastra but this forum requires sastric fundamentals.
Thanks for your understanding.
the Original Gypsy(Raja Gopala das):Anyone who is qualified can be guru. You don’t need anyones authority apart form the faithful disciple.
Mahesh: the FACT is YOU are THRASHED! And —–you can NOT ADMIT to your defeat. EVERYONE KNOWS THAT SRILA PRABHUPADA DID NOT ORDER THIS IS WHY YOUR “GURU” IS A CHARLATAN. HE is a FRAUD:
Prabhupada: “When I order, “You become guru,” he becomes regular guru. That’s all. He becomes disciple of my disciple. That’s it.”
(Srila Prabhupada Conversation, May 28, 1977, Vrindavan)
“Self-made guru cannot be guru. HE MUST BE AUTHORIZED BY THE BONA FIDE GURU. Then he’s guru. This is the fact…Similarly, bona fide guru means he must be authorized by the superior guru.”
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture on Nectar of Devotion, October 31. 1972)
“One should take initiation from a bona fide spiritual master coming in the disciplic succession, who is AUTHORIZED BY HIS PREDECESSOR SPIRITUAL MASTER. This is called diksa-vidhana.”
(Srimad Bhagavatam 4.8.54, purport)
Prabhupada: “Try to understand. Don’t go very speedily. A GURU CAN BECOME GURU WHEN HE’S ORDERED BY HIS GURU. That’s all. Otherwise nobody can become guru.
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture on Bhagavad-gita 7.2, Nairobi, October 28, 1975)
If you have a diksa guru, then how is he a guru since he has not been authorised by Srila Prabhupada? Authority by mental speculation is your authority?
the Original Gypsy(Raja Gopala das):SP never received instruction form his guru maharaja to become diksa guru, never.
Mahesh: That is just your WISHFUL thinking. You are Lord Visnu now? KNOW IT ALL? Can you prove it? You are hoping against hope.
Grow-up! The man you worship is a FRAUD–just like you. Srila Prabhupada gave ONLY the July 9th 1977 Ritvik ORDER Bas!
Hare Krsna! got this as CC in my email, so just to share it :
On the whole, the Spiritual Master is an agent of Krishna . But either He is assistant to the gopis or assistant to the cowherds boys, He is on the level of Krishna .
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
In all the ancient literatures of devotional service and in the more recent songs of Srila Narottama däsa Thäkura, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thäkura and other unalloyed Vaisnavas, the spiritual master is always considered either one of the confidential associates of Srimati Rädhäräni or a manifested representation of Srila Nityänanda Prabhu.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From:xxx>
To: zzz dasa@yahoo.com
Cc: mmmm uk>
Sent: Tuesday, 3 September 2013, 17:21
Subject: FW: Actual Spiritual Position of the Spiritual Master
What fools the Iskcon devotees and their ‘Gurus’ are to preach a totally different ‘Guru’ Philosophy than the one given to us below by Srila Prabhupada.
Letter to: Jayapataka
—
London
26 September, 1969
69-09-26
My Dear Jayapataka,
Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated September 11th, and I have noted the contents. Enclosed please find one photograph of the Radha-Krishna throne, so you may begin constructing it as soon as possible. When the Radha-Krishna Deities are installed, you may turn your main attention to Them, rather than to the Lord Jagannatha Deities. You continue to keep Jagannatha nicely though, and sometimes change His dress. So far as your having already ordered instruments from India , that is all right. Regarding your question about the verse in the prayers to the Spiritual Master, the Spiritual Master is one of the associates of Krishna . The prayers offered by Visvanatha Cakravarti to his Spiritual Master have a special significance. His Spiritual Master was one of the assistant gopis, so the prayer was offered like that. On the whole, the Spiritual Master is an agent of Krishna . But either He is assistant to the gopis or assistant to the cowherds boys, He is on the level of Krishna . That is the verdict of all scriptures. Krishna is worshipable God and the Spiritual Master is worshipper God. The exact words are sebya (worshipable) and sebak (worshipper).
I hope this meets you in good health.
Your ever well-wisher,
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Sri Chaitanya Charitamrta Adi Lila Ch 1 Tx 46 Purport Last Paragraph last five lines: (This part has already been translated in Chinese by Iskcon, you can look it up in the internet maybe).
“ In his prayers to the spiritual master, Srila Visvanätha Cakravarti Thäkura confirms that all the revealed scriptures accept the spiritual master to be identical with the Personality of Godhead because he is a very dear and confidential servant of the Lord. Gaudiya Vaisnavas therefore worship Srila Gurudeva (the spiritual master) in the light of his being the servitor of the Personality of Godhead. In all the ancient literatures of devotional service and in the more recent songs of Srila Narottama däsa Thäkura, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thäkura and other unalloyed Vaisnavas, the spiritual master is always considered either one of the confidential associates of Srimati Rädhäräni or a manifested representation of Srila Nityänanda Prabhu.
And Gour Govinda Swami tells that souls come from Brahmajyoti and his disciples say that he is a pure devote?
The tragedy for the ritviks is that they are worldy politicians. They will never reach Sri Krsna, the actual goal of spiritual life.
Dear Readers,
Hare Krishna. AGTSP.
As the Moderator made comments nicely pointing out to Mr Gypsy aka Guru Paramapara dasa who has nothing constructive to contribute in this forum as per the Sastras but continuously writing non-sense comments, and yet the Moderator allows such posting from this Gypsy guy who hides his identity under different names such as Guru Paramapara dasa and so on which reads as ; ” The tragedy for the ritviks is that they are worldy politicians. They will never reach Sri Krsna, the actual goal of spiritual life. ”
Are we, the ” ritviks ” followers of the Instructions of HDG. Srila Prabhupada’s VANI worldly politicians ?
Where we are going with this type of discussion ?
Hope the Moderator takes it what he writes seriously and should not allow posting such non-sense writing continuously.
Hope this finds well.
I think this Raja Gopal / Gypsy / Guru parampara is most likely the same person who has been hacking this site, in addition to making insulting comments which have no basis in shastra. Goonda-ism. I think his IP address should be compared to someof the hacking done here. In any case, name calling is not going to convince anyone, especially not at this state of affairs. ys pd
@Amar Puri
Idol worshippers only have weird fantasies. Sri Krsna will provide these since the ritvik idol worshippers like to remain in the realm of ignorance and envy.
Srila Prabhupada wanted his disciples, grand disciples, great grand disciples etc. etc. to become Krsna conscious. Ritviks just become idol worship/mahamaya conscious. Tragical. For the ritvik tribal people, of course.
An IGNORANT person like this Guru Parampara dasa a deviant disciple of the deviant self made voted in guru in the present Iskcon in which the founder Acaraya HDG. Srila Prabhupada has not authorized any one of His disciples to accept ones’ own disciple in His Institution Iskcon is continuously denying to accept by IGNORING deliberately the Instructions of HDG. Srila Prabhupada.
Hence he is continuously repeating the same non-sense when he writes ; ” Srila Prabhupada wanted his disciples, grand disciples, great grand disciples etc. etc. to become Krsna conscious. Ritviks just become idol worship/mahamaya conscious. Tragical. For the ritvik tribal people, of course.
Yes, Srila Prabhupada wants his disciples. How ? As per His Divine Instructions, ” distribute books, distribute books, distribute books” Those who are serious shall become ultimately His disciples by following Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions NOT via a bogus gurus system of all sorts. DO YOU UNDERSTAND IT ?
As regards for grand disciples and great grand disciples etc. etc. Srila Prabhupada did not ORDER to become SUCH GURU where His own disciples accept their own disciples in Srila Prabhupada’s Institution. DO YOU UNDERSTAND IT ?
DO YOU GET IT, at all ?????
If you can not answer these questions and ACCEPT the Instructions of HDG. Srila Prabhupada, please please please go some where else and glorify your bogus guru’s instructions where it best suits your purpose in misleading people…… BAS.
Please do not write any non-sense at all.
Hari BOL.
All Glories To Srila Prabhupada.
Hope Guru Parampara dasa learns something from Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions ;
75/02/15
Mexico City
Bhagavad-gita 2.15
“The living entity in this way wandering in different species of life in different planetary platform, and therefore this is very disgusting, so if one is fortunate, then he comes in contact with a devotee. This Krsna consciousness movement is meant for giving this opportunity to everyone. We are opening centers all over the world, inviting people to “Come in our place. Understand the philosophy. We have got so many books. And try to save yourself from this botheration of repetition of birth and death.” In order to execute to this business, apparently there is little difficulty. Just like we prescribe to our members, “No intoxication.” So no intoxication… One who is habituated to drink, to smoke, to drink coffee, tea, etc., he feels some discomfort.
Similarly, we say, “No meat-eating.” So those who are meat-eaters, they will find little difficulty to give up this habit. Similarly, we say, “No illicit sex,” but one who is habituated for this illicit sex life, he feels some difficulty. So there are so many things. In the beginning it appears to be little difficult. Actually it is not difficult, but because we are habituated, we feel difficulty. So if you are actually anxious and serious to stop this repetition of birth and death, then we must take to Krsna consciousness, because without Krsna consciousness nobody can stop the repetition of birth and death. Therefore Krsna advises in this verse that “Accept this little difficulty.”
Actually there is no difficulty, but because we are practiced, in the beginning we find little difficulty. Therefore here Krsna says, yam hi na vyathayanty ete: “All these so-called difficulties, if they do not bother or give some pain to a person…” Yam… All these difficulties…
Just like I am feeling difficulty. I am habituated to smoke. Now I am forbidden, “Not to smoke.” So I am feeling difficulty. So therefore Krsna said, “Although it is not difficulty, but although one feels difficulty — still he sticks to the principle — then he becomes fit for going back to home, back to Godhead.” So indriyani pramathini, in the Bhagavad-gita you’ll find. Our senses are very strong, like mad snakes. There is some statement in Vedic literature, indriya-kala-sarpa-patali. Indriya, the senses, are just like dreadful snakes. But there is a means to subdue the snake. It is said, indriya-kala-sarpa-patali protkhata-damstrayate, means the snake may be very dangerous, but somehow or other, if you take out its poison teeth, then it is no more dangerous.” The snake is dangerous on account of the poison teeth. So if, somehow or other, the poison teeth extricated, then the snake is no more dangerous. So our strong senses, snakelike senses, can be bereft of the poison teeth by accepting Krsna consciousness.”
@Amar Puri
“As per His Divine Instructions, ” distribute books, distribute books, distribute books”
First try to distribute the content of these books perhaps in your own mind, if you at all can read properly. Or are ritviks just worldy, tribal vaisyas? Then come to the stage of offenselessly chanting. But how can ritviks do that, since they’re always engaged in blaspheming besides not understanding one word of vaisnava tattva? It’s impossible.
btw I already long ago received divine instructions from my guru maharaja, a most faithful servant of Srila Prabupada.
An IGNORANT person remains in IGNORANCE because lack of understanding and faith in following the Instructions of the founder Acaraya HDG. Srila Prabhupada when He says ; ” distribute books, distribute books, distribute books.”
When some one with a little faith out of inquisitiveness reads Srila Prabhupada’s books the contents speak itself to that person.
Therefore, it shows and proves that this IGNORANT man Guru Parampara dasa has practically no faith in the Instructions of Srila Prabhupada when he writes non-sense / useless comments continuously.
The reason being as such is that this IGNORANT Jiva Guru Parampara dasa has accepted some one as his guru who is perhaps a disciple of Srila Prabhupada. But the fact is that Srila Prabhupada has not authorized any of His disciples to be His SUCCESSOR. This is the FACT which Guru Parampara dasa and co can not accept it. That is why he has to write non-sense to keep himself in IGNORANCE.
That is the free will of the conditioned Jivas including Guru Parampara dasa and co.
No body can do any thing about it.
Hari BOL.
@Amar Puri
SP explaines in the CC that anyone can be guru who knows the science of Krsna, refrains form animal slaughter, speculation, illicit connection and intoxication.
But you decide otherwise and with it don’t even accept SP sastra! And at the same time you want to be authority. That’s how crazy dictators like to play the game. Funny, and tragical, these ritvikkies.
Indeed, ritviks are worldy people, material welfare workers at best.
Yes, any one can be a guru who knows the science of Krsna consciousness BUT not accepting ones’ own disciples in the Parampara until or unless one is authorized to do so.
Therefore, Srila Prabhupada has not authorized any of his disciples to be His SUCCESSOR. …BAS.
Why you can not understand this simple thing which have been repeated so many times in this regard ?
Is it not the reason that you being an IGNORANT yourself chose to remain in IGNORANCE by not accepting Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions, and your bogus guru WANNA BE A GURU no matter what ?
OK. if you wanna be a guru, go some where else and start your own business. You can not do this in the Iskcon where His Founder Acaraya has not authorized any one of His disciples to be His SUCCESSOR… BAS.
Why it is so difficult for you to accept HDG. Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions ?
Where are you going with this ?
Do not waste your time here any more.
Hope you take the heed.
@Amar puri
“Yes, any one can be a guru who knows the science of Krsna consciousness BUT not accepting ones’ own disciples in the Parampara until or unless one is authorized to do so.
Therefore, Srila Prabhupada has not authorized any of his disciples to be His SUCCESSOR. …BAS.”
A guru doesn’t need anyone’s authorisation but that of the disciple.
You don’t understand vaisnava tattva and just keep referring, in a very dull headed fashion, to certain SP’s time, place, circumstance madhyam adhikari preaching.
SP himself never got the instruction from his guru maharaja to become diksa guru, never. And he himself deviated from the instruction to chant 64 rounds maha mantra daily, which his guru maharaja instructed to be vital part of the proces. And why not? Did he break the guru parampara with that? Of course not. SP did spread mercy to the best of his abilities. You only spread nonsense.
Indeed, you are just a less intelligent, fanatical person that doesn’t know philosophy and its practical consequences. You just, completely out of context, do some dry parroting of some quotes. Incredible fool.
btw, “BAS” is a very nice, childish word for dull headed, wannabe dictators. Specifically how you use it. How old are you?
Anyone who supports mayavada siddhanta, sahajiya siddhanta, illicit sex, drugs, rock and roll, criminal activity, child molesting infrastructure, and similat programs, being done in the name of Lord Krishna’s acharyas, is a guru? Where is that stated? ys pd
Did I not tell you that please do not waste your time here any more, whatever your name is Gypsy, Guru Parampara dasa or Raja Gopal dasa ?
Why do you keep on writing your non-sense philosophy when you say this ; ” A guru doesn’t need anyone’s authorisation but that of the disciple.” ?
Do you read what Srila Prabhupada says : “One should take initiation from a bona fide spiritual master coming in the disciplic succession, who is authorized by his predecessor spiritual master. This is called diksa-vidhana.” (SB 4.8.54) » ?
STOP ….. no further comments from a DEVIANT person like yourself who follows the DEVIANT guru because it is all MISLEADING and CHEATING as it is commented above.
Go away and fly your kite with your guru because your deviant philosophy is not going to fly here.
Do Not Write Any Further Nonsense Comments Here EVER ….. Guru Parampara dasa.
YOU ARE A CHEATER like YOUR BOGUS GURU.
@Puranjana das
“Anyone who supports mayavada siddhanta, sahajiya siddhanta, illicit sex, drugs, rock and roll, criminal activity, child molesting infrastructure, and similat programs, being done in the name of Lord Krishna’s acharyas, is a guru? Where is that stated? ys pd”
Such a person is definitely not a guru. He is just lousy trash. Like Bhaktivinoda Thakura explaines: reject such a person. Within the body of Iskcon, and within the GBC for that matter, you will all kinds of devotees. ALL kinds of devotees.
btw Rock and Roll? What’s wrong with that? I once took my daughter to a Korn concert. And I am definitely a regulated devotee, a vaisnava grhasta living as a sannyasi, practically speaking.
@Amar Puri
“Do you read what Srila Prabhupada says : “One should take initiation from a bona fide spiritual master coming in the disciplic succession, who is authorized by his predecessor spiritual master. This is called diksa-vidhana.” (SB 4.8.54) » ?”
This authorisation of course is not “you become guru, my disciple”. Srila Prabhupada of course also never received such an instruction from his guru maharaja. It is a sponteneous, realised position in which you realise your relationship with your gurudeva & lord Gauranga. Which is far, far, far beyond even your theoretical knowledge.
You really don’t understand anything, incredible fool. Dry parroting, that’s all you can.
Authorization from the disciple? No, the authorization is from Krishna. What if the disciple is a drunkard, how can he authorize a guru then? The drunkard will authorize the guru, not Krishna? Where is this stuff stated?
How many times are you going to write your nonsense comments as such: “This authorisation of course is not you become guru, my disciple”. Srila Prabhupada of course also never received such an instruction from his guru maharaja. It is a spontaneous, realised position in which you realise your relationship with your gurudeva & lord Gauranga. Which is far, far, far beyond even your theoretical knowledge??????
What kind of a nonsense is this when you say:” Srila Prabhupada of course also never received such an instruction from his guru maharaja.”????????
If Srila Prabhupada never received such instructions from his guru maharaja, THEN, why Srila Prabhupada says this: “One should take initiation from a bona fide spiritual master coming in the disciplic succession, who is authorized by his predecessor spiritual master. This is called diksa-vidhana.” (SB 4.8.54) ??????
Explain it, you deviant follower of a deviant guru who is in a spontaneous, realised position in which he realise his relationship with his gurudeva and lord Gauranga DISOBEYING the instructions of the present acaraya HDG Srila Prabhupada?????????????????
If you can not explain it, then you know the drill. In case, you do not know it what is that drill. The drill is, go and fly your kite with your bogus guru whom you think him to be in a spontaneous realised position.
Do Not Write Any More Nonsense comments, Guru Parampara dasa the deviant Gypsy.
@Puranjana das
A guru without disciples is no guru. Therefore the authorisation comes form the disciple, he/she accepts the guru as guru. A disciple means bona fide disciple, of course. Otherwise he/she is not a disciple.
Ultimitely every authorisation comes from Krsna. Not a blade of gras moves without His will.
My conclusion is that this Amar Puri person is truly an incredible fool. He likes to read and quote but doesn’t understand anything.
Please let him give many classes in your ritvik communities then everything will turn out very nicely.
Guru Parampara dasa, the Gypsy boy, did you do your drill ?
NO, of course, NOT. Why ?
Because he was busy in replying yet another nonsense again which reads as ;
” My conclusion is that this Amar Puri person is truly an incredible fool. He likes to read and quote but doesn’t understand anything.”
I rather be a fool who quotes Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions with full conviction instead of being a FOOL of first class like Gypsy, Guru Parampara dasa who does not follow and accept the Instructions of Srila Prabhupada.
Let alone understanding the Instructions of Srila Prabhupada, this MURKH Gypsy, Guru Parampara dasa dare to criticize Srila Prabhupada and preach deviant philosophy of his deviant guru in the Srila Prabhupada’s forum when he writes non sense concocted philosophically comments of his own ; ” A guru without disciples is no guru. Therefore the authorisation comes form the disciple, he/she accepts the guru as guru. A disciple means bona fide disciple, of course. Otherwise he/she is not a disciple. ”
What a Kali chela of a Kali guru is he ?????? WOW ……….