Krishnapriya Devi Dasi (ACBSP): This quote from the GBC Resolutions 2013 is the essence. Forget the rest!
“Within these cooperative elements, Srila Prabhupada, as the Founder-Acarya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, is the preeminent guru for all members of ISKCON. All members of ISKCON, for all generations, are encouraged to seek shelter of Srila Prabhupada. All members of ISKCON are entitled and encouraged to have a personal relationship with Srila Prabhupada through his books, teachings, service, and his ISKCON society.”
pamho agtACBSP, BAHULASTAMI KI JAI, thank you for posting this nice news by the GBC!
Finally we got SRILA PRABHUPADA back in Iskcon after three long decades, they have been hiding everything about our real guru maharaj in Iskcon. Nobody could have a personal relationship with our jagat guru but nowadays all of them have been defeated therefore they declared who the real guru of Iskcon is.
Who told you to become guru? They got so many troubles and some of them even didn’t stay alive because of all these wretches who kept hiding SRILA PRABHUPADA as the only diksa guru of Iskcon.
Anyway we are glad to hear about it when the good manner doesn’t work the bad manner makes clear everything through the factor time.
The truth is all the time the winner like in the battlefield of Kuruksetra,
agtSP ys
haribol
They simply do not allow this idea to work in ISKCON. Anyone who says they are taking shelter of the pure devotee is considered as a radical outcaste and is shunned, banned, removed, ejected and driven away, as we have seen in hundreds if not thousands of examples. In other words, the GBC does not practice what it preaches. ys pd
Krishnapriya Devi Dasi (ACBSP): This quote from the GBC Resolutions 2013 is the essence. Forget the rest!
“Within these cooperative elements, Srila Prabhupada, as the Founder-Acarya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, is the preeminent guru for all members of ISKCON. All members of ISKCON, for all generations, are encouraged to seek shelter of Srila Prabhupada. All members of ISKCON are entitled and encouraged to have a personal relationship with Srila Prabhupada through his books, teachings, service, and his ISKCON society.”
Mahesh: We have to judge by ACTION. To say everyone take shelter of Srila Prabhupada is very good. BUT the question is are they going to ACCEPT July 9th 1977 Ritvik ORDER from Srila Prabhupada?
If they ACCEPT July 9th 1977 Ritvik Order from Srila Prabhupada then THAT would be a VERY welcome change. We want to see ACTION backed-up by words.
The WHOLE atmosphere in ISKCON can change by accepting the following:
1) Acceptance of July 9th 1977 Ritvik Order
2) ONLY distributing UNCHANGED and ORIGINAL Srila Prabhupada’s Books
3) Accepting and following Direction of Management (1970)
If they accept these then a NEW chapter will have begun in ISKCON which we ALL can look forward to.
If NOT then it is EMPTY WORDS. We have to judge BY THE RESULT. Mere words mean NOTHING. Srila Prabhupada so many times explains PHALENA PARICIYATE.
Antya 3.143 The Glories of Srila Haridasa Thakura
It is said, phalena pariciyate: ONE IS RECOGNIZED BY THE RESULT OF HIS ACTIONS.
Lets not forget that Srila Prabhupada will ALWAYS be preeminent guru for all members of ISKCON . BUT what we want to see in ISKCON is ACTION not simply words. The ACTION is the 3 above points. Do they ACCEPT this OR REJECT it?
If they DO actually ACCEPT these 3 points then we can put the past behind and CO-OPERATE. Let us wait and see if they actually MEAN what they SAY.
KB 1 Advent of Lord Krsna
When Vasudeva was returning home with his first-born child, although he was pleased by the behavior of Kamsa, he could not believe in him because he knew that Kamsa was uncontrolled. AN ATHEISTIC PERSON CANNOT BE FIRM IN HIS WORD OF HONOR. One who cannot control the senses cannot be steady in his determination. The great politician, Canakya Pandita, said, “Never put your trust in a diplomat or in a woman.” THOSE WHO ARE ADDICTED TO UNRESTRICTED SENSE GRATIFICATION CAN NEVER BE TRUTHFUL, NOR CAN THEY BE TRUSTED WITH ANY FAITH.
681220BG.LA Lectures
Prabhupada: PHALENA PARICIYATE. ONE HAS TO BE JUDGED BY THE RESULT. You have worked very hard and supposed to be very rich man, but if I see that you have no nice apartment, neither any car, neither any opulence, so what kind of businessman you have earned? That can be understood immediately.
10729IV.GAI Conversations
Prabhupada: BUT WE HAVE TO JUDGE BY THE RESULT.
In the course of an ISKCON devotee career it 99% always happens that senior devotees feel burnt-out, deceived or feel hard done-by. De facto these devotees could bring about a rebound. It is therefore important to understand that the weakest point in present ISKCON’s anti-ritvik wall are these senior rank and file devotees who might also see through the crumbling facade of ISKCON’s guru program.
Point is not to alienate these devotees and bring about to throw out the baby with the bath water.
These are thousands of devotees and to lose them cannot be called reform. Prabhupada never wanted devotees to leave. Prabhupada wanted that things gradually develop.
Agreed, this “developing” phase takes far too long already. However, better late than never.
What about Srila Prabhupada poisoners? Then what about the still living real IsKcon hijcakers from 1977/78?What about so called “Prabhupada lilamrita”cunningly penned by the devils advocate and
false acarya Guarino?What about Prabhupada properties money misused by but a few top rank rascals?I habe so many questions before i believe one phrase from their mouts(by the eay those gangsters are not the real GBC,the are employed by the GBC of West BengalInc.)
Does any body read in the quote from the GBC Resolutions 2013 that no body BUT HDG. Srila Prabhupada is the ONLY Diksha Guru in His Iskcon world wide ?
If the answer is NO, then, where is the QUESTION of a reform in Iskcon ?
a) Srila Prabhupada is the foundational siksa guru for all ISKCON devotees because he has realised and presented the teachings of the previous acaryas of the Brahma Madhava Gaudiya sampradaya appropriately for the modern age.
b) Srila Prabhupada’s instruction are the essential teachings for every ISKCON devotee.
c) Srila Prabhupada’s books are the embodiment of his teachings and should be accepted as the standard by all future generations of ISKCON.
d) Every ISKCON spiritual master is responsible to guide his disciples to follow Srila Prabhupada’s instructions.
(Resolution No. 35 GBC Minutes 1994)
It is clear that the Governing Body Commission states that it is Srila Prabhupada whose instructions we are to follow. It is the instructions of Srila Prabhupada that are the foundational and essential siksa for everyone.
If his instructions are not transmitting divya-jnana then whose are ?
“…on the absolute platform siksa and diksa gurus are identical, and it is offensive to try and discriminate between them”.
(Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi -lila1:47, purport).
But by the same verse, since Srila Prabhupada is the diksa Guru of ISKCON, then to try and de-emphasise this on the plea of promoting his role as a siksa guru would be offensive, since one would be trying to discriminate between Srila Prabhupada’s role as the diksa Guru, and Srila Prabhupada’s role as the siksa Guru.
“Srila Prabhupada can only give siksa to newcomers, but not diksa” realy ?
It is clearly not the present ‘spiritual masters’ who are currently giving the essential divya-jnana. They are simply advising from where it may be obtained. They are assisting but not directly transmitting. As noted earlier, this has been admitted by the GBC themselves.
Diksa Guru:
If therefore, it is Srila Prabhupada who is giving us divya-jnana and thus enabling us to destroy our sinful reactions, then he cannot be none other than our diksa guru. The diksa guru is not the individual who provides the spiritual name or lights the sacrificial fire. The diksa guru is he who gives diksa, the transcendental knowledge that destroys all sinful reactions and takes us back to Godhead.
“Diksa actually means *initiating* a disciple *with transcendental knowledge* by which he becomes freed from all material contamination.”
(Madhya-lila, 4:112, Purport)
“Diksa is the process by which one can awaken his transcendental knowledge and vanquish all reactions caused by sinful activity. A person expert in the study of the revealed scriptures knows this process as diksa.”
(C.C. Mad., 15-108)
“First He says the spiritual master awakens the sleeping living entity to his original consciousness so that he can worship Lord Visnu. This is the purpose of diksa or initiation. Initiation means receiving the pure knowledge of spiritual consciousness.”
[Madhya-Lila 9.61,purport]
The choice is very simple:
Is the person who tells you to read Srila Prabhupada’s books giving divya-jnana, or the person whose books you actually read ?
The answer is of course quite clear.
NOTE:
If Srila Prabhupada can still give siksa to everyone as the GBC concede, and if “on the absolute platform siksa and diksa gurus are identical”, then why can he not give diksa via his books to everyone too ? According to Srila Prabhupada, the siksa guru normally goes on to become the diksa guru anyway:
“Generally a spiritual master who constantly instructs a disciple in spiritual science becomes his initiating spiritual master later on.”
(Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila, 1.35, purport)
“It is the duty of the siksa guru or diksa guru to instruct the disciple in the right way, and it depends on the disciple to execute the process. According to sastric injunctions, there is no difference between siksa guru and diksa guru, and generally the siksa guru later on becomes the diksa guru.”
(Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.12.32, purport)
The GBC have violated the above principle every day of every year since 1977 since on the one hand they promote Srila Prabhupada as the main siksa Guru for anyone who joins ISKCON, but on the other they flatly deny that it is even possible that he “later on becomes the diksa guru”. What happens normally “later on” in ISKCON is that all Srila Prabhupada’s disciples are stolen by the GBC 2/3 voted in rubber stamped gurus!
Srila Prabhupada taught that we are permitted just one diksa Guru, who must be completely liberated, and unlimited siksa gurus who may or may not be liberated. The confusion between diksa and siksa gurus occurs because their titles are confused with their function. Thus it is sometimes assumed that only the siksa guru gives siksa, but not the diksa guru. However, as the last quote above clearly demonstrates, the diksa guru also instructs. This should be obvious, otherwise how else will he transmit divya-jnana (transcendental knowledge)?:
Pradyumna:
“Guru-padasrayah. “First one must take shelter of the lotus feet of a spiritual master.” Tasmat Krsna- diksadi-siksanam. Tasmat, “from him”, Krsna-diksadi-siksanam, “one should take Krsna- diksa, initiation, and siksa.””
Srila Prabhupada:
“Diksa means divya-jnanam ksapayati iti diksa. Which explains the divya-jnana, transcendental, that is diksa. Di, divya, diksanam. diksa. So divya-jnana, transcendental knowledge(…)”
Pradyumna:
“Krsna- diksadi-siksanam.”
Srila Prabhupada:
“Siksanam. We have to learn. If you don’t learn, how you’ll make progress?”
(Srila Prabhupada Room Conversation, 27/1/77)
That siksa is included in diksa is evident from the most well known verse on the guru-disciple relationship:
“Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the truth.”
(Bhagavad-gita, 4:34 [1972 original first ed.]) !!!
NOTE :
In this verse the word “upadeksyanti” is translated in the word-for-word translation as meaning to “initiate”; however, in the full translation this to “initiate” is rendered as requiring the Guru to “impart” (knowledge). Consequently the “Prabhupada is siksa not diksa” advocates are caught in a logistical trap of their own making. If Srila Prabhupada is capable of “imparting knowledge” or “divya-jnana” to newcomers via his books , which the GBC concede in advocating him as the pre-eminent siksa Guru for ISKCON, then he must by definition be able to initiate or give diksa too. Transcendental knowledge or transcendental siksa = divya-jnana is , after all, the main constituent of diksa ( only possible to received from an qualified bona fide Diksa guru, means uttama-adikari and special authorized acarya) :
“Diksa actually means initiating a disciple with transcendental knowledge by which he becomes freed from all material contamination.” !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila, 4:112, purport)
“Diksa is the process by which one can awaken his transcendental knowledge and vanquish all reactions caused by sinful activity. A person expert in the study of the revealed scriptures knows this process as diksa.” !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila, 15.108, purport)
NOTE:
It is obviously ludicrous to argue that Srila Prabhupada can impart transcendental knowledge ( divya-jnana) when not on the planet if we call him a siksa Guru, but not do so if we call him a diksa Guru. Therefore, if Srila Prabhupada can impart transcendental knowledge to newcomers via his books , letters and tapes whilst not on this planet, and he is the latest or current link in the chain of disciplic succession, what prevents him from being their diksa Guru? Prabhupada never elected or appointed diksa-gurus for after his departure !! Therefore the GBC rubber stamped “gurus” via 2/3 hand vote !! This is a fact!
Thus since the GBC accept that Srila Prabhupada can impart “transcendental knowledge” to everyone via his “pre-eminent siksa”, and since Srila Prabhupada has already agreed to accept as a disciple anyone who follows his teachings for a minimum of six months (via representational priests or ritviks), the GBC and others should stop inventing baseless myths and start following his pre-eminent instructions, beginning with the one issued on July 9th 1977, which continued his position as the sole diksa Guru of ISKCON.
“The initiating and instructing spiritual masters are equal and identical manifestations of Krsna, although they have different dealings.”
(Caitanya-caritamrita, Adi 1.34, purport )
“Therefore, there is no difference between siksa-guru and diksa-guru . . .”
(Room conversation in Bhubanesva on Jan. 31, 1977)
“According to sastric injunctions, there is no difference between siksa-guru and diksa-guru, and generally the siksa-guru later on becomes the diksa-guru.”
(Srimad-bhagavatam, 4.12.32, purport)
ACTUAL POSITION OF THE GBC :
“The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I am the initiator guru, and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This I want.” !!
(SPL to Madhudvisa Swami, 4th August, 1975)
“There are two kinds of instructing spiritual masters. One is the liberated person fully absorbed in meditation in devotional service, and the other is he who invokes the disciple’s spiritual consciousness by means of relevant instructions.”
(CC Adi, 1.47 )
NOTE:
Here Srila Prabhupada describes the two kinds of instructor gurus. The second describes a person who gives instructions based on the revealed scriptures. He must be not full liberated !!! The first describes the siksa guru Srila Prabhupada wants us all to become. On this platform we will be fully qualified to preach the glories of the Lord !!
“The diksa-guru and the siksa-guru are both intimate servitors of Lord Krsna.”
(Harinama-cintamani of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur)