Mon May 18, 2009 11:48 am (PDT): As usual the article below has been first published in the IRMs official magazine Back To Prabhupada. BTP is being distributed for free to ISKCON devotees and people interested in Srila Prabhupadas teachings worldwide. If you would like to receive BTP as well, simply send us your full name and street address via yahoo or the following email address: irm@iskconirm.com.
Also, we welcome all correspondence, so if you have any questions, comments or criticisms, please write to us via one of the two methods mentioned above
Thank you & Hare Krishna!
Readers’ questions and challenges
“While I was coming out of the Soho temple, I was being handed over this magazine called Back to Prabhupada […] You are wasting so much energy criticizing the Gurus and wasting all of your valuable time. I believe that by whatever means one can attain Krishna that’s fair […] Srila Prabhupada will be very sad to see your low consciousness.”
– Bhaktin Barsha Kalita, London, England
Editor replies: You obviously believe it is correct to spend time criticising others and finding fault in them, since you have written to us and criticized us and found fault in us for having “low consciousness” etc. Therefore by your own conduct you are demonstrating that we must speak the truth for the benefit of others. What matters is if what we are speaking is true or not. You will find in our magazine that everything presented is not only true, but referenced by the words of Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada teaches that he is the sole diksa Guru for ISKCON, and those who try and usurp his position must be checked. Do you believe in Srila Prabhupada’s words or not? And if you do, why object to them when we present them? Indeed, how can us presenting facts, truth and Srila Prabhupada’s words be “wasting time”?
In ISKCON, only Srila Prabhupada can take us back to Krishna -a fact even ISKCON’s “gurus” like Bhakti Charu Swami now freely admit (please see BTP Special Issue 2). You have said that by whatever means one attains Krishna is “fair”. But there is only one means to attain Krishna, which is taught by Krishna Himself, and that is by surrendering to and serving His representative, the bona fide spiritual master, Srila Prabhupada – not by disobeying him!
“My commentary about the magazine is to suggest for a change of mood in your preaching […] Just forget about ISKCON’s mafia existence. Take into account the unlimited amount of new people at your disposal and give to them Prabhupada’s mercy deprived of political tinge.”
– Abhimanyu Suta Das, Lima, Peru
Editor replies: There are currently very large numbers of devotees who are having their spiritual lives destroyed by ISKCON’s guru hoaxers who have taken control of the movement Srila Prabhupada actually started. ISKCON, after all, is still distributing over 3 million books a year and has some 200-300 centres worldwide -but are taking people away from Srila Prabhupada. On the planet right now, there is no other group which is making any attempt to help these poor souls except the IRM. There are already many devotees preaching to the public, but we are the only ones preaching to the devotees the real secret of spiritual life: that only Srila Prabhupada can take you back to Godhead. This preaching to the devotees is our unflinching mood:
“TRANSLATION: For one who explains the supreme secret to the devotees, devotional service is guaranteed, and at the end he will come back to Me.
PURPORT: […] Bhagavad-gita should be explained to persons who are ready to accept Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is a subject matter for the devotees only […]”
(Bhagavad-gita As It Is, 18.68)
So we will continue until we have rescued them from the guru hoaxers. Since all the IRM members were themselves rescued by such preaching efforts, they obviously now do not want to deprive everyone else of the same benefit they have received.
“Why do you unnecessarily blaspheme all ISKCON gurus? Let Srila Prabhupada and Krishna decide and you simply preach. People cry on reading such articles which are sometimes full of direct blasphemy.”
– Surendra Agarwal, West Bengal, India
Editor replies: We do not unnecessarily blaspheme the ISKCON gurus Firstly, since we only speak the truth, it is impossible to commit blasphemy, otherwise then truth or dharma itself would be guilty of blasphemy. Secondly, it is very much necessary to speak the truth so that people know who the bona fide Guru is, without which one cannot even begin the process of Krishna consciousness. You say we should let Srila Prabhupada and Krishna decide, and we should just preach. But we are in agreement with you:
a) Srila Prabhupada has already decided by issuing directives which make it clear that he remains the sole diksa Guru of ISKCON, such as the July 9th, 1977 directive to all GBCs and Temple Presidents, and we are simply repeating these instructions.
b) Srila Prabhupada and Krishna have already decided by inspiring the creation of BTP. And through BTP we are simply preaching, just as you advise.
Of course, if we state the fact that the current ISKCON gurus were not authorised by Srila Prabhupada, and therefore are not acting correctly, this may offend those who have faith in them. But we cannot avoid stating this truth just because someone make take offense at hearing it. Rather, the greatest offense would be to not speak the truth.
And it is interesting that you feel the message of our magazine is so powerful that it can immediately reduce someone to tears. Such is the power of truth!
“No doubt IRM’s stand is absolutely right. But since your site was not so serious towards the varnasrama mission, I have decided to take initiation from an ISKCON Guru Maharaja. I have found in last one year, service with my guru maharaja for that mission, that certainly there are some serious drawbacks with all dealing of varnasrama mission, and I do not know what is exactly the problem, why our activities are not taking shape, even though we are working very hard.”
– Bhaktavatsal Das, Jaisalmer, India
Editor replies: Srila Prabhupada never stated that varnasrama can be instituted by:
a) Disobeying him.
b) Kicking him out as the Guru of ISKCON.
c) Accepting initiation from the bogus gurus who have kicked him out.
So obviously varnasrama will never get established by following the above process, as proven by the fact that in the last 30 years ISKCON has not even come close to establishing varnasrama. By taking part in the guru hoax deviation, which is a huge offense to Srila Prabhupada, you also will similarly fail in your attempts to get varnasrama insitituted. And you have admitted that this is exactly what has happened!
Nothing happens due to material formulas and power, but only due to the MERCY and GRACE of Srila Prabhupada. Clearly, this is never going to come as long as we keep offending him by spreading the guru hoax. Varnasrama and all other things will follow after we have first re-established Srila Prabhupada’s true position, and driven out all the offences being perpetrated in his name.
I want to be a Hare Krishna but only if I am appointed as the successor of Srila Prabhupada.
Perhaps, Gaurasundara Das83, you will not be able to chant Hare Krishna offenselessly IF you get appointed as the successor of Srila Prabhupada. Make no mistake.
Hari BOL. AGTSP.
And Gaurasundara prabhu, somebody is telling you that you can’t become one. He can only say that because he has the authority to say so.
another spiritual master after you?
750522mw.mel
Devotee 7: Prabhupāda, when you leave this material world, will there be another spiritual master after you? Another pure soul?
Prabhupāda: THEN THAT SPIRITUAL MASTER IS KṚṢṆA HIMSELF. There is no need of education. Everyone is free. Everyone is full knowledge. There is no need of spiritual master.
Note: Srila Prabhupada will be with us AS LONG AS HIS BOOKS ARE ON THE PLANET:
Adi 1.35 The Spiritual Masters
The service of the spiritual master is essential. If there is no chance to serve the spiritual master directly, a devotee should serve him by remembering his instructions. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SPIRITUAL MASTER’S INSTRUCTIONS AND THE SPIRITUAL MASTER HIMSELF. IN HIS ABSENCE, THEREFORE, HIS WORDS OF DIRECTION SHOULD BE THE PRIDE OF THE DISCIPLE.
74-11-22. Letter: Bahurupa
I am pleased to hear that you are chanting 16 rounds daily and reading my books regularly and following the four rules. IN MY BOOKS THE PHILOSOPHY OF KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS IS EXPLAINED FULLY SO IF THERE IS ANYTHING WHICH YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND, THEN YOU SIMPLY HAVE TO READ AGAIN AND AGAIN. BY READING DAILY THE KNOWLEDGE WILL BE REVEALED TO YOU AND BY THIS PROCESS YOUR SPIRITUAL LIFE WILL DEVELOP.
75-09-18. Letter: Babhru, Satyaki
PLEASE CONTINUE READING MY BOOKS SERIOUSLY AND EVERYTHING WILL BE REVEALED TO YOU.
74-11-22. Letter: Hugo Salemon
So far your worship of Lord Jagannatha in your home and your becoming initiated. It is alright provided you have the recommendation of the temple president. I am very glad to see that such a young boy as yourself you are taking serious interest in this Krishna Consciousness Movement. Please continue in this way Our process is something universal. It cannot be checked by any means. Anyone in any place, in any country can chant Hare Krishna. If it is possible to go to the temple, then take advantage of the temple. A temple is a place where by one is given the opportunity to render direct devotional service to the Supreme Lord Sri Krishna. IN CONJUNCTION WITH THIS YOU SHOULD ALWAYS READ MY BOOKS DAILY AND ALL YOUR QUESTIONS WILL BE ANSWERED AND YOU WILL HAVE A FIRM BASIS OF KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS. IN THIS WAY YOUR LIFE WILL BE PERFECT.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Note: Srila Prabhupada is OUR BONAFIDE Diksa Guru for AS LONG AS HIS BOOKS EXIST ON THE PLANET:
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=41422#more-41422
“We request you to chant HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA, KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE, HARE RAMA HARE RAMA, RAMA RAMA HARE HARE, and your life will be sublime.”
Krishna das, ; Did Srila Prabhupada leave any room in His Instructions for His disciples to become His Successor Guru accepting and collecting disciples in Srila Prabhupada’s Iskcon through such self created system of reform you are following as it seems when you promote this link ;
http://audio.iskcondesiretree.info/index.php?q=f&f=%2F02_-_ISKCON_Swamis%2FISKCON_Swamis_-_D_to_P%2FHis_Holiness_Jayadvaita_Swami%2FSeminars%2FKirtan_Reform
here on this web site page link ;
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=4009#comment-29230
My only authority is Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions whereas your authority as it seems is the people who have become successor of Srila Prabhupada by dint of their own appointment when Srila Prabhupada has not authorized any of them to become His Successor guru accepting and collecting disciples of their own in Srila Prabhupada’s Iskcon.
What kind of a cheating is this ? Are you not following a cheater ? Why not simply follow Srila Prabhupada Instructions ? What is your problem, Krishna das ?
I know that you are not going to answer any of these questions because you do not have any answers.
So, it is better for you to refrain from posting your questionable comments on this web site.
If you have any other questions that are holding you back in order not to accept and follow Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions – VANI, then, I encourage you to please feel free to ask and write such questions which will be answered. It is that simple.
Hope it meets you well, Krishna das.
Hari BOL. AGTSP.
Krishna das, when you come to think about after hearing the following from a Lecture of HDG. Srila Prabhupada on September 25, 1973 in Bombay ;
“Because even if you make nice material arrangement, you cannot enjoy it. At any time you shall be kicked out. Where is your perfection?”
You must ask what is the perfection of such self style reform you are promoting for a self made successor guru JAS ?
If you can not get the right answer, then, you better kick him out before you will be kicked out in order for you to make your life sublime in cultivating perfection of KC. simply by following Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions not JAS reform.
The choice is yours, Krishna das. Exercise your free will after due deliberation.
Hari BOL. AGTSP.
Usually when a “guru” falls or is expelled then he is no longer a Hare Krishna.They can not do another “service”
Gaurasundara Dasa:
Usually when a “guru” falls or is expelled then he is no longer a Hare Krishna.They can not do another “service”
Note: these bogus CONDITIONED soul bogus “gurus”(ANTI RITVIK MONEY SCREWING SALVERY MAKING BUNCH OF CROOKS) who want to REPLACE Srila Prabhupada with themselves as Diksa gurus are MOST DANGEROUS OPPORTUNISTS ROGUES AND NONDEVOTEES:
SSR 2
Reporter: But the bad gurus…
Śrīla Prabhupāda: And what is a “bad” guru?
Reporter: A bad guru just wants some money or some fame.
Śrīla Prabhupāda: Well, if he is bad, how can he become a guru? [Laughter.] How can iron become gold? Actually, a guru cannot be bad, for if someone is bad, he cannot be a guru. You cannot say “bad guru.” That is a contradiction. What you have to do is simply try to understand what a genuine guru is. The definition of a genuine guru is that he is simply talking about God—that’s all. If he’s talking about some other nonsense, then he is not a guru. A guru cannot be bad. There is no question of a bad guru, any more than a red guru or a white guru. Guru means “genuine guru.”
SB 4.28.48 P Puranjana Becomes a Woman in the Next Life
Whenever an acarya comes, following the superior orders of the Supreme Personality of Godhead or His representative, he establishes the principles of religion, as enunciated in Bhagavad-gita. Religion means abiding by the orders of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Religious principles begin from the time one surrenders to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is the acarya’s duty to spread a bona fide religious system and induce everyone to bow down before the Supreme Lord. One executes the religious principles by rendering devotional service, specifically the nine items like hearing, chanting and remembering. UNFORTUNATELY, WHEN THE ACARYA DISAPPEARS, ROGUES AND NONDEVOTEES TAKE ADVANTAGE AND IMMEDIATELY BEGIN TO INTRODUCE UNAUTHORIZED PRINCIPLES IN THE NAME OF SO-CALLED SVAMIS, YOGIS, PHILANTHROPISTS, WELFARE WORKERS AND SO ON. Actually, human life is meant for executing the orders of the Supreme Lord, and this is stated in Bhagavad-gita (9.34):
man-mana bhava mad-bhakto
mad-yaji mam namaskuru
mam evaisyasi yuktvaivam
atmanam mat-parayanah
“Engage your mind always in thinking of Me and become My devotee. Offer obeisances and worship Me. Being completely absorbed in Me, surely you will come to Me.”
The main business of human society is to think of the Supreme Personality of Godhead at all times, to become His devotees, to worship the Supreme Lord and to bow down before Him. The acarya, the authorized representative of the Supreme Lord, establishes these principles, but when he disappears, things once again become disordered. The perfect disciples of the acarya try to relieve the situation by sincerely following the instructions of the spiritual master. At the present moment practically the entire world is afraid of rogues and nondevotees; therefore this Krsna consciousness movement is started to save the world from irreligious principles. Everyone should cooperate with this movement in order to bring about actual peace and happiness in the world.
Iso 12
The Lord states that as soon as one reaches Him by devotional service–which is the one and only way to approach the Personality of Godhead–one attains complete freedom from the bondage of birth and death. In other words, the path of salvation from the material clutches fully depends on the principles of knowledge and detachment gained from serving the Lord. THE PSEUDO RELIGIONISTS HAVE NEITHER KNOWLEDGE NOR DETACHMENT FROM MATERIAL AFFAIRS, FOR MOST OF THEM WANT TO LIVE IN THE GOLDEN SHACKLES OF MATERIAL BONDAGE UNDER THE SHADOW OF PHILANTHROPIC ACTIVITIES DISGUISED AS RELIGIOUS PRINCIPLES. BY A FALSE DISPLAY OF RELIGIOUS SENTIMENTS, THEY PRESENT A SHOW OF DEVOTIONAL SERVICE WHILE INDULGING IN ALL SORTS OF IMMORAL ACTIVITIES. IN THIS WAY THEY PASS AS SPIRITUAL MASTERS AND DEVOTEES OF GOD. Such violators of religious principles have no respect for the authoritative acaryas, the holy teachers in the strict disciplic succession. THEY IGNORE THE VEDIC INJUNCTION ACARYOPASANA–“ONE MUST WORSHIP THE ACARYA”–AND KRSNA’S STATEMENT IN THE BHAGAVAD-GITA (4.2) EVAM PARAMPARA-PRAPTAM, “THIS SUPREME SCIENCE OF GOD IS RECEIVED THROUGH THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION.” INSTEAD, TO MISLEAD THE PEOPLE IN GENERAL THEY THEMSELVES BECOME SO-CALLED ACARYAS, BUT THEY DO NOT EVEN FOLLOW THE PRINCIPLES OF THE ACARYAS.
These rogues are the MOST DANGEROUS elements in human society. Because there is no religious government, they escape punishment by the law of the state. They cannot, however, escape the law of the Supreme, who has clearly declared in the Bhagavad-gita that envious demons in the garb of religious propagandists shall be thrown into the darkest regions of hell (Bg. 16.19-20). SRI ISOPANISAD CONFIRMS THAT THESE PSEUDO RELIGIONISTS ARE HEADING TOWARD THE MOST OBNOXIOUS PLACE IN THE UNIVERSE AFTER THE COMPLETION OF THEIR SPIRITUAL MASTER BUSINESS, WHICH THEY CONDUCT SIMPLY FOR SENSE GRATIFICATION.
Madhya 1.218 The Later Pastimes of Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu
Srila Narottama dasa Thakura says, chadiya vaisnava seva nistara payeche keba: unless one serves a Vaisnava, he cannot be delivered. The spiritual master initiates the disciple to deliver him, and if the disciple executes the order of the spiritual master and does not offend other Vaisnavas, his path is clear. Consequently Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu requested all the Vaisnavas present to show mercy toward the two brothers, Rupa and Sanatana, who had just been initiated by the Lord. When a Vaisnava sees that another Vaisnava is a recipient of the Lord’s mercy, he becomes very happy. Vaisnavas are not envious. If a Vaisnava, by the mercy of the Lord, is empowered by Him to distribute the Lord’s holy name all over the world, other Vaisnavas become very joyful–that is, if they are truly Vaisnavas. One who is envious of the success of a Vaisnava is certainly not a Vaisnava himself, but an ordinary mundane man. Envy and jealousy are manifested by mundane people, not by Vaisnavas. Why should a Vaisnava be envious of another Vaisnava who is successful in spreading the holy name of the Lord? An actual Vaisnava is very pleased to accept another Vaisnava who is bestowing the Lord’s mercy. A MUNDANE PERSON IN THE DRESS OF A VAISNAVA SHOULD NOT BE RESPECTED BUT REJECTED. THIS IS ENJOINED IN THE SASTRA (UPEKSA). THE WORD UPEKSA MEANS NEGLECT. ONE SHOULD NEGLECT AN ENVIOUS PERSON. A preacher’s duty is to love the Supreme Personality of Godhead, make friendships with Vaisnavas, show mercy to the innocent and reject or neglect those who are envious or jealous. There are many jealous people in the dress of Vaisnavas in this Krsna consciousness movement, and they should be completely neglected. THERE IS NO NEED TO SERVE A JEALOUS PERSON WHO IS IN THE DRESS OF A VAISNAVA. WHEN NAROTTAMA DASA THAKURA SAYS CHADIYA VAISNAVA SEVA NISTARA PAYECHE KEBA, HE IS INDICATING AN ACTUAL VAISNAVA, NOT AN ENVIOUS OR JEALOUS PERSON IN THE DRESS OF A VAISNAVA.
Bg 4.42 P Transcendental Knowledge
A bona fide spiritual master is in the disciplic succession from time eternal, and he does not deviate at all from the instructions of the Supreme Lord as they were imparted millions of years ago to the sun-god, from whom the instructions of Bhagavad-gita have come down to the earthly kingdom. One should, therefore, follow the path of Bhagavad-gita as it is expressed in the Gita itself and beware of self-interested people after personal aggrandizement who deviate others from the actual path. The Lord is definitely the supreme person, and His activities are transcendental. One who understands this is a liberated person from the very beginning of his study of the Gita.
Bg 16.4 P The Divine And Demoniac Natures
In this verse, the royal road to hell is described. The DEMONIAC WANT TO MAKE A SHOW OF RELIGION AND ADVANCEMENT IN SPIRITUAL SCIENCE, ALTHOUGH THEY DO NOT FOLLOW THE PRINCIPLES. THEY ARE ALWAYS ARROGANT or proud in possessing some type of education or so much wealth. THEY DESIRE TO BE WORSHIPED BY OTHERS, AND DEMAND RESPECTABILITY, ALTHOUGH THEY DO NOT COMMAND RESPECT. Over trifles they become very angry and speak harshly, not gently. They do not know what should be done and what should not be done. THEY DO EVERYTHING WHIMSICALLY, ACCORDING TO THEIR OWN DESIRE, AND THEY DO NOT RECOGNIZE ANY AUTHORITY.
760628bj.nv Conversations
Pusta Krsna: Some of them will say some things that Krsna says, but they’ll take from other places also. What is the position of such persons?
Prabhupada: He’s most dangerous. HE’S MOST DANGEROUS. HE IS OPPORTUNIST. HE’S FINDING OUT CUSTOMER, something here… According to the customer he is giving something, as the customers will be pleased. So he is not guru. He’s a servant. He wants to serve the so-called disciples so that he may be satisfied and pay him something. He’s servant. He’s not guru. Guru is the master. You cannot disobey guru. But if you become a servant, you want to please the disciple by flattering him to get his money, then you are not guru, you are servant. Just like a servant pleases the master. He’s not guru. He’s servant. So our position should be servant, yes, but servant of the Supreme. So guru means heavy. You cannot utilize him for satisfying your whims. That is not guru.
Amar Puri prabhu,
Your offensive nature has made you so blind that without hearing the lecture you are coming to your conclusions. Every point in the lecture regarding kirtan reform is supported by Prabhupada quotes, but anyway you don’t want to follow Prabhupada. You want to follow those who have told you that “by following whatever I say you are following Prabhupada whereas by following whatever others say, you are not following Prabhupada”. This puts you in a situation where you are also not following Prabhupada.
What has Maharaj spoken in the seminar which is wrong? Maharaj says:
1. During Prabhupada’s time jaya dieties was not sung. Is that fact wrong?
2. Prabhupada stopped a devotee from saying Jay Gurudev and said it is impersonalism. Is that wrong?
3. Prabhupada told about “Sri Krishna Govinda Hare Murare” as a film song. Is that wrong?
4. Prabhupada stopped the chanting of Haribol. Is this fact wrong?
5. Prabhupada said Nitai Gaur Radhe…. is apasampradaya. Is this fact wrong?
If any of the above facts are wrong, please prove that they are wrong. Don’t sentimentally reject something just because your Shadow Guru Maharaj (who fools you into thinking that you are a disciple of Prabhupada but in turn makes you follow his instructions) has told you to do so.
Come ahead and prove that whatever Maharaj has told is wrong. That is the way of the scholarly devotee, don’t be a sentimentalists. Why don’t you accept this challenge?
Again I am repeating whatever I have already told, the post was only for open minded people, not narrow minded sentimentalists.
Taking Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions whatever it best suits the agenda of self made gurus of all kind including JAS that which requires no reform at the first place indicate that there is no need of any reform because Srila Prabhupada Instructions are perfect.
Isn’t it, Krishna das ?
That is exactly why I questioned to Krishna das in my message which reads as ;
” You must ask what is the perfection of such self style reform you are promoting for a self made successor guru JAS ?
If you can not get the right answer, then, you better kick him out before you will be kicked out in order for you to make your life sublime in cultivating perfection of KC. simply by following Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions not JAS reform.
The choice is yours, Krishna das. Exercise your free will after due deliberation.
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
So, Krishna das, where is the need for such a JAS reform you are promoting ?
Is Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions not PERFECT which requires reform that which you are promoting to OPEN / CLOSED minded or narrow minded sentimentalists ?
They are just masters of ceremony, that´s all.
Thank you.
The problem is that people here are not following Prabhupada’s instructions. Prabhupada said not to sing Jaya Gurudev, Jaya dieties were not sung in his presence, Sri Krishna govinda Hare Murare was not sung in his presence nor was Radhe Radhe. If you say upholding these instructions of Prabhupada is self styled Kirtan, that proves my point that you are blindly following your Guru who is fooling you in believing that you are a disciple of Prabhupada but actually controlling you. Such people must be kicked on face, not upholders of Prabhupada’s instructions.
Krishna das writes ;
” If you say upholding these instructions of Prabhupada is self styled Kirtan, that proves my point that you are blindly following your Guru who is fooling you in believing that you are a disciple of Prabhupada but actually controlling you. Such people must be kicked on face, not upholders of Prabhupada’s instructions. ”
Who is upholding those self styled Kirtan instructions mentioned in Krishna das’s message ?
Are those Instructions of Srila Prabhupada ?
If NO, then, what is the point of Krishna das promoting JAS reform ?
Are such people including JAS the reformer NOT disobeying the ORDER of Srila Prabhupada and thus, be kicked on face ?
Krishna das, are you ready to kick out on the face of JAS, the reformer whom you are promoting ?
What are you waiting for, Krishna das ?
Kick him out before you will be kicked out, Krishna das.
Krishna das, please follow only Srila Prabhupada’s VANI.
Hari BOL. AGTSP.
With further reference to the point mentioned in my comments, it is abundantly clear that Krishna das, you are indeed blindly following your Guru JAS – the reformer who is fooling you in believing that you are following Srila Prabhupada but actually JAS – the reformer controlling you.
Is this not factually TRUE ?
As Krishna das wrote ; ” Such people must be kicked on face, not upholders of Prabhupada’s instructions. ”
Krishna das, do you accept the fact that you are not reluctant to kick on face to those who are not upholders of Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions including JAS – the reformer ?
Are you going to kick on the face of JAS, now, as you have written in your comments ?
If NOT, then, why NOT ?
I think Amar Puri has become totally blind because of his mad elephant offence and is demoting those who are repeating Prabhupada quotes in their lectures. I am extremely grateful to my spiritual master that I have been saved from such cheaters and sentimental fools who trick people by word jugglery and say “listen to me, then you listen to Prabhupada automatically. If you listen to ISKCON Gurus, you don’t listen to Prabhupada”.
Anyway, this lecture is for followers of Prabhupada not sentimental foolish followers of selfish leaders.
Krishna das, is the lecture for followers of Srila Prabhupada , as you quote in your comments ?
If so, then, how come you have never answered to my comments which I reproduce here below ;
Amar Puri says:
29. September 2014 at 7:40 pm
Taking Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions whatever it best suits the agenda of self made gurus of all kind including JAS that which requires no reform at the first place indicate that there is no need of any reform because Srila Prabhupada Instructions are perfect.
Isn’t it, Krishna das ?
That is exactly why I questioned to Krishna das in my message which reads as ;
” You must ask what is the perfection of such self style reform you are promoting for a self made successor guru JAS ?
If you can not get the right answer, then, you better kick him out before you will be kicked out in order for you to make your life sublime in cultivating perfection of KC. simply by following Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions not JAS reform.
The choice is yours, Krishna das. Exercise your free will after due deliberation.
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
Amar Puri is neither physically blind nor spiritually because I try to follow Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions which I quoted in my comments. Therefore, where is the questions of made elephant offence and offence to WHO ?
Who is your Spiritual master to whom you are extremely grateful to as you commented ?
Where is the need to get saved from such a cheaters and sentimental fools who trick people by word jugglery and say “listen to me, then you listen to Prabhupada automatically.”, WHEN some one sincere and serious follower hear from Srila Prabhupada DIRECTLY through His VANI, that some one is automatically SAVED.
Isn’t it Krishna das ?
If your answer is NO, then, you need a living guru like JAS to save you not Srila Prabhupada.
Is this TRUE, Krishna das ?
As it appears from your comments, Krishna das, therefore, you listen to ISKCON Gurus and you don’t listen to Srila Prabhupada.
Is it NOT ?
If you are not addressing the questions, then, please refrain from posting it because you are going in a circle wasting not only my time in repeating same comments but for the learned readers time also who reads it repeatedly same.
Hope it meets you well.
Hari BOL. AGTSP.
Krishna das ; Here is a piece of advice from Srila Prabhupada says:
” A devotee should have intelligence to know who is deviating. Surrender by your intelligence but don’t surrender your intelligence.” ( to Bali Mardana, 1974). ”
It is your free will, Krishna das, either you chose Srila Prabhupada or chose your present living guru JAS.
But you can not have BOTH. Why ?
Simply because Srila Prabhupada says that a devotee should have intelligence to know who is deviating and then surrender by your intelligence only after knowing the FACTS
Whereas
JAS and his co. advocate a devotee should surrender the intelligence without knowing the FACTS which means without consulting with Srila Prabhupada’s Original Instructions. That is why JAS and co. are changing the Original books of Srila Prabhupada so that a new INITIATE like yourself should only read the revised and edited instructions glorifying the living gurus of all sorts in the present Iskcon.
Therefore, you listen to ISKCON Gurus and you don’t listen to Srila Prabhupada.
Hari BOL. AGTSP.
Don not even bother answer anything, this is no a favorable site anymore. Its been overrun by different people with separate agendas than our’s.
We are sorry that this website prabhupadanugas.eu isn’t favorable for you any more, because the only reason for running this website is written on top of each page: “Remembering Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions”. We are not interested in following other agendas.
Your servant,
webmaster prabhupadanugas.eu
Prabhupada’s quote is 100% accurate. A devotee must have intelligence to understand who in his lectures is giving quotes of Prabhupada stating that Haribol, Radhe Radhe, Sri Krishna Govinda Hare Murare must not be sung and who is calling the imposition of these standards set by Prabhupada as self styled Kirtan. Jaya dieties (like Jaya Radha Madhava, Jaya Radha Krishnachandra) were not sung during Prabhupada’s time. Our great acharyas of today like Amar Puri who practice all these which weren’t encouraged by Prabhupada call not practicing these principles as self styled Kirtan.
You want to know what is the perfection of following Prabhupada’s instructions? The perfection is you will go back to Godhead and deliver the whole mankind. Following those who are cheating you into thinking that you are a disciple of Prabhupada but in turn making you follow them will lead you only to hell, that is the perfection.
Wow ………… what a twister, Krishna das is exactly like his guru JAS.
Krishna das says ;
” Our great acharyas of today like Amar Puri who practice all these which weren’t encouraged by Prabhupada call not practicing these principles as self styled Kirtan.”
Where and what is the PROOF of what you are saying about Amar Puri in your non-sense comments ?
Where are you going with all this falsifying statements which are out of context in your message ?
Why do you not address your comments which are questioned to you for the benefit of the readers as well as for you ?
That is the perfection. Isn’t it Krishna das ?
Therefore, kindly refrain from posting non-sense out of context writing accusing me without any PROOF which simply shows that you are hiding the TRUTH.
Hope you do adhere to the TRUTH.
Hari BOL. AGTSP.
Krishna das says ;
((( What has Maharaj spoken in the seminar which is wrong? Maharaj says:
1. During Prabhupada’s time jaya dieties was not sung. Is that fact wrong?
2. Prabhupada stopped a devotee from saying Jay Gurudev and said it is impersonalism. Is that wrong?
3. Prabhupada told about “Sri Krishna Govinda Hare Murare” as a film song. Is that wrong?
4. Prabhupada stopped the chanting of Haribol. Is this fact wrong?
5. Prabhupada said Nitai Gaur Radhe…. is apasampradaya. Is this fact wrong? )))
WHO did practise these non-standard songs of prayer during Srila Prabhupada’s manifested lila, Krishna das ?
If the above was indeed in practise, then, where are the written Instructions from Srila Prabhupada pertaining to all the above cited items ?
Look forward to hear further from you, Krishna das.
Hare Krishna. AGTSP.
This site has a different agenda than Tim Lee. [snipped by webmaster]
The single purpose of this website prabhupadanugas.eu is written on top of each page: “Remembering Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions”.
Your servant,
webmaster prabhupadanugas.eu
Amar Puri,
evidences are here.
http://www.romapadaswami.com/node/2832
A selected quote which may influence someone to read the whole article:
Prabhupada repeated his comments made to Harikesa Maharaja. “Offence is that what is spoken by the acaryas, if you do not follow, that is offence. Guror avajna. To chant Gaura-Nitai is no offence. But if our previous gurus have chanted Sri-Krsna -caitanya prabhu Nityananda Sri-advaita-why should we go beyond that? That is guror avajna. Even there is no aparadha, because guru, Kaviraja Gosvami, has sung like that and my guru has sung, we should follow that. We should not make any deviation. That is guror avajna, sruti-sastra-nindanam; namno balad yasya hi papa-buddhih. So it comes to be one of the items of the dasa-vidha-aparadha [ten offences in chanting]. Guror avajna
[edit by webmaster:
Please note that Romapada Swami isn’t following Srila Prabhupada’s instructions himself, so he is no authority for Srila Prabhupada’s devotees. He is ignoring that one for example, which is written in plain English and doesn’t need interpretation and dilution:
http://www.iskcon-truth.com/ritvik-letter-july9th.html
As long as someone doesn’t follow Srila Prabhupada’s main instructions to the best of his capacity, only selecting those that are palatable for the false ego, we don’t consider such person as helpful or as authority.
Your servant, webmaster prabhupadanugas.eu]
If Amar Puri Prabhu can just prove me that these few things are wrong and Prabhupada was insisting otherwise in all the below cases, and following the below practices is self styled Kirtans, I will accept what he says:
1. During Prabhupada’s time jaya dieties was not sung. Is that fact wrong?
2. Prabhupada stopped a devotee from saying Jay Gurudev and said it is impersonalism. Is that wrong?
3. Prabhupada told about “Sri Krishna Govinda Hare Murare” as a film song. Is that wrong?
4. Prabhupada stopped the chanting of Haribol. Is this fact wrong?
5. Prabhupada said Nitai Gaur Radhe…. is apasampradaya. Is this fact wrong?
If you can’t prove these, then there is no point discussing further on the topic. It would just be a sentimental discussion.
>>Why do you not address your comments which are questioned to you
I still don’t understand what were you able to question? All you were able to do was to throw dirt on someone who is presenting Prabhupada’s quotes.
TKG’s death in an “accident” where he was being pursued by assassins hired by JPS was the result of an internecine struggle for power between them, and his head was cut off. How is your eye?.
Krishna das ; Evidence presented by you here in this link ; http://www.romapadaswami.com/node/2832 shows that the answer for 1 to 5 items were not in practise indeed during the manifested lila of Srila Prabhupada except for one incident when some one named Lokanath was singing differently which Srila Prabhupada corrected right away.
That is why I asked you the following questions ;
WHO did practise these non-standard songs of prayer during Srila Prabhupada’s manifested lila, Krishna das ?
If the above was indeed in practise, then, where are the written Instructions from Srila Prabhupada pertaining to all the above cited items ?
So as per the evidence of the link presented by you Krishna das, your items 1-5 were not in practise during Srila Prabhupada’s manifested lila.
Therefore, I asked you in my comments the questions which I reproduce one more time here below ;
Amar Puri says:
29. September 2014 at 7:40 pm
Taking Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions whatever it best suits the agenda of self made gurus of all kind including JAS that which requires no reform at the first place indicate that there is no need of any reform because Srila Prabhupada Instructions are perfect.
Isn’t it, Krishna das ?
That is exactly why I questioned to Krishna das in my message which reads as ;
” You must ask what is the perfection of such self style reform you are promoting for a self made successor guru JAS ?
If you can not get the right answer, then, you better kick him out before you will be kicked out in order for you to make your life sublime in cultivating perfection of KC. simply by following Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions not JAS reform.
The choice is yours, Krishna das. Exercise your free will after due deliberation.
NOW, please do not waste my time any more, unless you answer the questions.
Hare Krishna. AGTSP.
Bhakta William and Ananny Mouse ;
Would you be clear enough to state what kind of a different agenda both of you are talking about in your respective messages ?
Hare Krishna. AGTSP.
Tim Lee’s agenda is to smear all devotees who do not submit to his guru Madhu Pandit das. and Akshaya Patra. Very Simply. I wonder why Amar Puri has a hard understanding things that are very clear. Isn’t it so, Amar Puri? The agenda of Tim Lee is to connect anyone who disagrees with him to the GBC/moslester messiahs/Prahlad/sanat/mukunda/pancali/bhakta torben/Rocana/radhanatha/JPS/JAS. If Amar Puri was to challenge anything Tim Lee says, his name will be added to the list of Tim Lee’s public enemies. Because of this Tim Lee has added Prabhupadanugas to his list of enemies and him and William are now working to end the Prabhupadanugas.eu and keep devotees from posting and visiting. Their new agenda is to lure people away from Prabhupadanugas.eu and publicize their imaginary idea that this webpage is in bed with the GBC.
Thanks for atleast accepting that Prabhupada had not recommended the practice of wrong practices in bhajans. Then when the question of who told you this came into picture you say I have studied Prabhupada’s instructions by my intelligence and have understood it. What a hypocricy? I respect the person who told me the facts that Prabhupada told him, if you don’t want to but feel that you are understanding Prabhupada’s instructions with your own intelligence, choice is yours. By the way you were also told by someone else that you can directly approach Prabhupada. It didn’t just come in your dreams. That means you are already following him.
Krishna das says ; ” Thanks for at least accepting that Prabhupada had not recommended the practice of wrong practices in bhajans. ”
I have always maintained this position from the very beginning that Srila Prabhupada had not recommended wrong practices in Bhajans.
That is why I asked the following questions to you and your guru JAS which you kept on ignoring it as seems ;
((( Amar Puri says:
29. September 2014 at 7:40 pm
Taking Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions whatever it best suits the agenda of self made gurus of all kind including JAS that which requires no reform at the first place indicate that there is no need of any reform because Srila Prabhupada Instructions are perfect.
Isn’t it, Krishna das ?
That is exactly why I questioned to Krishna das in my message which reads as ;
” You must ask what is the perfection of such self style reform you are promoting for a self made successor guru JAS ?
If you can not get the right answer, then, you better kick him out before you will be kicked out in order for you to make your life sublime in cultivating perfection of KC. simply by following Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions not JAS reform.
The choice is yours, Krishna das. Exercise your free will after due deliberation.
NOW, please do not waste my time any more, unless you answer the questions. ))))
And still you keep on wasting my time writing non-sense comments, WHY, Krishna das ?
Read what you are writing ; ” Then when the question of who told you this came into picture you say I have studied Prabhupada’s instructions by my intelligence and have understood it. What a hypocricy? ”
Where did I write this in my comments ? Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions are widely and easily available for everyone to hear from Him directly. You can follow Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions and discuss same with others Srila Prabhupada’s followers as we are doing here.
Where is the HYPOCRISY, Krishna das , as you wrote totally non-sense ? Is it NOT ?
Your non-sense comments continue further as such ; ” I respect the person who told me the facts that Prabhupada told him, if you don’t want to but feel that you are understanding Prabhupada’s instructions with your own intelligence, choice is yours.” ?
Who do you respect, JAS or bvks that Srila Prabhupada told them to accept and collect disciples after Srila Prabhupada manifested lila ?
Is that it ? If it is, then, ask where are such written Instructions from Srila Prabhupada ?
It is always good to be told by someone else as I am telling you in this public forum that ALL OF US must hear from HDG. Srila Prabhupada – VANI.
That is why I am trying to follow Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions and share the same with every one as I am doing it with you, Krishna das.
But the dilemma is that you are listening from JAS and/or bvks but NOT hearing from Srila Prabhupada DIRECTLY when some one like myself tells you to follow Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions to make your life sublime in KC.
Is this NOT TRUE, Krishna das ?
WHO is your living guru you are following ?
Are you that ashamed of your guru that he is not worth even mentioning his name in the public forum ?
WHY are you protecting and promoting him IF he is not worth mentioning his name because you are so ashamed of him ?
Answer these questions to yourself, IF you are so coward to ask your living guru straight forward and reject him.
That is all I have been saying in my message and begin to follow and hear from Srila Prabhupada VANI from now on ward.
Hope it meets you satisfactory, Krishna das.
Hare Krishna. AGTSP.
Ananny Mouse says ; ” I wonder why Amar Puri has a hard understanding things that are very clear. Isn’t it so, Amar Puri?
Ananny Mouse, perhaps, you are able to read mind of other people but you obviously seem not only to misguide me but to others also when your speculative message is being read on this public forum.
It is simply the fact of the matter is that I do not subscribe to any of what you are referring to in your message, Ananny Mouse, which please note.
Therefore, I humbly ask you to refrain from posting such speculative personal attacking messages.
Thank you for your kind listening.
Hare Krishna.
By the way, I was referring to the message of Ananny Mouse says:
6. October 2014 at 2:26 am
This site has a different agenda than Tim Lee. [snipped by webmaster]
And as well as the message of William ACBSP says:
5. October 2014 at 5:54 pm
Don not even bother answer anything, this is no a favorable site anymore. Its been overrun by different people with separate agendas than our’s.
Therefore, in my message ( reproduced below ) I was curiously enquiring from these two respectable personalities mentioned above as to what kind of changed agenda of the owner of this site has ;
(((( Would you be clear enough to state what kind of a different agenda both of you are talking about in your respective messages ? ))))
Unfortunately, the reply from Ananny Mouse came with a personal attack towards me which I have clarified accordingly.
Hope it clarifies better.
Hare Krishna. AGTSP.
I think my answer is clear, and many agree with my answer. Otherwise, why did so many contribute to the article “Who is Tim Lee?”
Ananny Mouse ; your answer to my question ” what kind of changed agenda of the owner of this site has ” has not been addressed.
Therefore, your answer is quite IRRELEVANT and UNCLEAR to what I asked in my query let alone being agreed upon as you deemed comfortable in replying so.
Hope it meets you well.
Hare Krishna. AGTSP.
I humbly ask Amari Puri to excuse my temporary inability to discuss that further.
Krishna das got repeated chances to ask and to get answers, but as he continues to simply ignore well made points that might be unpalatable for him, further unproductive comments by him are considered as useless and will be stopped, because it’s a waste of time explaining facts to him when he doesn’t seem to be sincerely interested in his personal spiritual welfare, but more interested in expressing his brainwashed mind, sorry.
Handpicking only palatable instructions from Prabhupada and ignoring the most important ones, like these unauthorized gurus do, doesn’t empower one to claim “I am following Prabhupada” where instead only their false ego is nurtured, and the false ego of those who are attracted to them. That’s only cheating for those who want to get cheated.
Actually persons who are not brainwashed can understand for example this most important instruction very easily, because it is plain English, and doesn’t need interpretation and dilution: http://www.iskcon-truth.com/ritvik-letter-july9th.html
As long as someone doesn’t follow Srila Prabhupada’s main instructions to the best of his capacity, we don’t consider such person as helpful authorities. Who isn’t able to hear Srila Prabhupada’s genuine instruction, can’t bear to hear Srila Prabhupada’s instructions and doesn’t like to meditate about them sincerely, will find huge opportunities elsewhere in this material world, which is meant for that.