IRM not agreeing with “Little Krishna Cartoons”
Pancali dd Debates Prahlad das
Prahlad: The IRM does not agree with the “Krishna cartoons” made with the help of ISKCON Bangalore.
Pancali Devi Dasi Acbsp: Are you really kidding me. Are you actually going to condemn these devotees? I absolutely love little Krishna. I have all the dvds and my daughter Lalita Sri Vishakha devi dasi gets ecstatic when she watches them. She says Krsna’s name probably more than you do in a day Prabhu. There is no harm. Personally I think Prabhupada would think it was great for the kids. Its tasteful and delightful. Sita lila and Kaunteya das when they first saw they could actually relate to what we try to teach them. You are picking at straws. As for Dalai Lama speaking against varnasrama dharm has ISKCON Bangalore taking on his philosophy and preaching it in their temple? No! Why don’t you bring up all the good they have done? Anyway like I said I am not going to debate with my own Godbrother I just expressed an opinion and as I said take it or leave it. Use your fault finding propensity for where it is needed. No offense Prabhu.
http://krishnastore.de/little-krishna-dvd-set-h-krishna-1520.html
[PADA: Right on Pancali dd! Correct. The “Little Krishna” cartoons are being seen in huge numbers all over India on TV, where most of the viewers are maybe 3 -10 years old. Many of these little children would otherwise have NO access to ANY children’s version of the “Krishna Leela” story — if these Leelas had not been made into cartoons. Unfortunately Prahlad das has no idea that small children like to watch cartoons, and they will watch cartoons no matter what, because that is what small children do these days.
Prahlad is apparently angry these children are not watching cartoons like Bugs Bunny, Mickey Mouse and the Road runner? Why shouldn’t we introduce Krishna leela to these children, who would otherwise be watching mundane cartoons? Why does Prahlad want children to watch Bugs Bunny — and not Krishna Leela?
This is the whole problem with the Prahlad and the IRM program, they want to shut down what we are doing, but they have nothing else to offer? Just go back home, back to Bugs Bunny, that is their whole plan? They are envious that we are preaching to so many children, while they are NOT doing diddley squat for children, nor could they do anything even if they wanted to, they have no potency to preach to children.
In short, they have no program for children going on anywhere, what to speak of having something that is watched by thousands of children on TV, and on DVDs and so on. Pancali is quite correct, these cartoons are made for children — who are thus learning to love Krishna via these cartoons. Easy to figure this out, the children are delighted and happy to see Krishna, the only persons who are not happy to see children taking delight in seeing Krishna, are these IRM grinches. One thing Srila Prabhupada did say, and often, is that SOME Krishna is better than NO Krishna!
Prahlad and the IRM have zero preaching program for children going on, none, they would rather see no Krishna than some Krishna, and evidently they want children to love Bugs Bunny and not Krishna. That is what the GBC does every day, they shut down programs, and then there is no program. Scorched earth policy. They want Bugs Bunny to win and Krishna to fail, clearly shows what side they are on.]
Prahlad Das: “In our original BTP article we simply presented Srila Prabhupada’s statements verbatim as they applied to Little Krishna. And here we have simply presented Bangalore Devotee’s admissions verbatim confirming every point made in our original article. Thus, with even those behind the LK project themselves agreeing, there can be no dispute over the conclusion of the original BTP article: that LK constituted a “non-Prabhupada presentation of Lord Krishna and His pastimes”.”
ISKCON Bangalore have no shortage of money and manpower but where are their self-sufficient farm communities? goshallas? gurukuls? hari-nama sankirtans? book distribution programs? (as Prabhupada instructed). They have only created an army of neophytes to collect donations for their Akshay Patra business.
[PADA: Correct, Prahlad and his IRM have no self-sufficient farms, no goshallas, no gurukulis, no hari-nama, no book distribution, no nothing. Empty suits. Worse, Krishna Kanta wants to stop others from preaching about Krishna to children, so the children will be watching Bugs Bunny. GBC scorched earth policy pt. II. In 1997 Krishna Kanta sabotaged the whole Bangalore vs Mumbhai court case, KK said he wanted us all to “work with” Hrdayananda, Jayapataka, Ravindra swarupa et al. and “make them ritviks.” KK said PADA has to drop the poison issue, molesting issue, and STOP THE BOOK CHANGES LAWSUIT which we were putting together at that time.
[… snip …]
Krishna Kanta convinced Bangalore NOT to bring forward the CRIMINAL aspect of the GBC gurus, ok like their criminal history, the molesting issue, poison issue etc. And as a result of Krishna Kanta’s sympathy for the Devil, he helped water down the Bangalore lawsuit. As a result, Bangalore has had to rely on its Askhaya Patra division to give them more support from the India media, government leaders etc. It has become an important part of their public profile, which Bangalore needed (thanks to KK watering down the original complaint) to combat the GBC guru attack.
This attack was aided and abetted by KK watering down the case because of his desire to “work with” the GBC gurus. KK also attacked PADA when we said the molestation victims are suffering and sometimes dying, he said (and still says) he did not want us to address that issue the way we had to […snip…]. They were (and still are) infuriated as soon as we said the suicides were going down […snip…]. Bugs Bunny ki-jaya!]
Narada-kunda Dasi: they have to do what their investors tell them to
[PADA: These Bangalore folks are all worshiping Srila Prabhupada. Why does the IRM, and their GBC brothers, object to that? At least Bangalore has investors, who is supporting the IRM? No one sees the IRM doing any public kirtanas, book distribution, home programs, where is their program? Prahlad is not even helping KK start a home program process in UK, they are not doing anything of notice. Its a giant bluff.]
Bhakta Peter: sadhus naturally have no taste to see politicians.
[PADA: At least the Dalai Lama has heard about their programs, no one knows about the IRM. Srila Prabhupada visited with important dignitaries all the time, and Bangalore is simply following that example. Now the IRM is saying Srila Prabhupada’s program of inviting important dignitaries is bogus, what else is new? Meanwhile, the only visitors to the IRM cheif’s headquarters are — the neighbor’s cats? Who is visiting the IRM? At all?]
Lenny Sislac: @”Are you really kidding me” Pancali Devi Dasi Acbsp Don’t get fooled by a bunch of loners. It has become a fashion to pretend on cyberspace to be right in the middle of the world’s control room and to show others the ropes. Whereas in fact this is all facade. Nobody listens to these folks in the real world.
Prahlad Das: Lenny trolling again.
Lenny Sislac: @”an army of neophytes to collect donations for their Akshaya Patra business” When having no details you better be quiet. This is all wrong information.
Prahlad Das: Who says I’ve got no details? Prove that the information is wrong.
[PADA: […snip…] He thinks we need to worry about the serpent people running our lives, instead of teaching people to depend on Krishna.]
Lenny Sislac: Prahlad Das again hallucinating?
Prahlad Das: Troll on Leonard…
Pancali Devi Dasi Acbsp The problem with IRM is they cheat. They give part of a quote to make out that Prabhupada is saying something else when in fact if one reads the whole quote they will see that it isn’t how IRM promoted it to mean. Second IRM lies in their BTP magazines. For example in one of there issues they showed the devotees “writing into them” saying how wonderful they are, but when I kept reading the comments — hello my husband had written to them…LOL…But he hadn’t even written but they used his name. Now that’s pretty sad wouldn’t you say Prahlad Das Prabhu? So even in your own backyard the cheating is going on. It also would be good for you to prove….an army of neophytes to collect donations for their Akshaya Patra business” so this way what you are saying can be taken as honest.
[PADA: Right, at least we have an army of neophytes, the IRM has no army of any rank. The IRM made a big mistake when they said that they had “quotes of evidence” that the ritvik system would continue for 10,000 years. As a result, they made the GBC and Rocana tear up the IRM documents, which have no quotes to back up that claim. KK has messed up the ritvik program by making these types of false arguments — with no quotes to back them up.
KK also messed up our program in China by attacking some of our people there, the same people who were paying to print books. He is trying to mess up China book printing, so that he can attack others, just like he wanted to mess us up to get original books, which helps the bogus books. Books are not important, KK is? Anyway, good job Pancali dd, we are impressed with your standing up for the right thing here. Nice work.
Yep, even adults are experiencing lots of joy watching these Krishna Leela DVDs, that’s better than having them watch football or who knows what, yes, we need more Krishna and not less. Good! Lets face it, these KK, Prahlad types and others, they are simply anarchists who do not want to see any program, they are like the Gaudiya Matha folks — whom Srila Prabhupada said were envious and so they wanted to sabotage anyone else’s preaching effort, meanwhile they could not accomplish squat themselves. Prahlad, go back to UK and get KK to do some home preaching programs, rent a hall etc. and try to help others for a change. And quit rooting for the evil doers. ys pd
webmaster’s note: some parts removed […snip…]
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada .
Is this Krsna consciousness ? No, it is Kali-yuga.
The all writing makes me sad.
Hare Krishna my website admin friend.
Although you are unlikely to post anything critical of PADA’s insane rantings, or any defense of the IRM against the spurious accusations in the above “article”, nonetheless for your enlightenment here is why Srila Prabhupada, and hence the IRM, objects to the “Little Krishna” cartoons:
“You should know it that Krsna is not a plaything. These things should strictly not be done. (About trying to have karmis make a movie on Krsna Book). If you do this, then Krsna will become a fairy tale. Please drop this matter.”
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, 20/7/1974)
“I do not care very much for these filmings because by presenting Krishna in this way it makes it something like fantasy. It is better to have people to read my Krishna books what I have written so that they can understand Krishna fully.”
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, 20/8/1974)
““The point is that these drawings should be realistic. Not that you make Krishna a cartoon character and therefore laughing stock.”
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, 18/8/1971)
—————————————————————————————————————————————–
“Little Krishna, the LEGENDARY warrior of Vrindavana”
(“Fire and Fury”, episode 5, (“The Legendary Warrior” in the DVD version)
“And so, Little Krishna, the LEGENDARY warrior saved His beloved Vrindavana …”
(“Assault of the Lethal Bird”, episode 9, (“The Legendary Warrior” in the DVD version)
“Interesting stories of Krishna in his younger days allow the kids to form an immediate association with our LEGENDARY character”
(Chanchalapati Das, http://bit.ly/9KJH7l)
“Lifting a mountain at the age of seven years and marrying sixteen thousand wives in the prime of His youth are some of the examples of His infinite energy, but the mudhas, after seeing them or hearing about them, DECRY THEM AS LEGENDARY and take the Lord as one of them.”
(Srimad-Bhagavatam, 2.10.10, purport)
“When they are challenged by Krsna’s pastimes, these rascals say, “It is all fiction; it is all LEGEND. […] So, God sometimes displays Himself as God and sometimes as a human being, but the rascal impersonalists dismiss His pastimes as LEGEND or mythology.”
(A Second Chance)
“The Aryasamajis and others, they take it as LEGEND. But the acaryas, they do not take it as LEGEND. Therefore we have to follow the acaryas.”
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture, 13/12/1970)
———————————————————————————————————————————————-
“this wonderful heritage character, Krishna.”
(Madhu Pandit Das, http://bit.ly/9eIbj6, 3 mins 32 secs)
“Krishna as a concept is widely diffused and is a heritage property with global salience
[…] The product truly offers a global landscape of consumption, revenue generation and branding possibilities.”
(http://bit.ly/c3JBMU)
———————————————————————————————————————————————
Statement by ISKCON Bangalore, November 17th, 2010:
Q: “Have you ever exercised certain narrative freedom in the films?”
Ans: “Yes there have been certain sections where we have exercised certain creative and narrative freedom.”
“One who follows his imaginations about the Supreme Personality of Godhead is condemned.”
(Srimad Bhagavatam, 10.3.32, purport)
Jay quotes HDG. Srila Prabhupada as saying ;
” “You should know it that Krsna is not a plaything. These things should strictly not be done. (About trying to have karmis make a movie on Krsna Book). If you do this, then Krsna will become a fairy tale. Please drop this matter.”
(Srila Prabhupada Letter, 20/7/1974)
Regarding this specific limitation (About trying to have karmis make a movie on Krsna Book). in the above quote, one can understand that Srila Prabhupada strictly prohibits a movie on Krsna Book or His past time by the KARMIS.
Giving the benefit of doubts that Srila Prabhupada would have allowed such talented Devotees to execute such tasks based on the example of His Grace Shriman George Harrison who did serve the mission of Srila Prabhupada as per his gifted talents under Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions.
But the dilemma is that the movie Little Krsna indeed is made under the Supervision of the Devotees as it appears and yet its presentation is HIGHLY Karmic when IT IS presented with words such as LEGEND and/or MYTHOLOGY which has created its CONTROVERSY.
Why the Producer and the Director did not present Lord Shri Krishna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead ?
I have no answer for that. Any body please do share and shed some more light.
Hari BOL.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
With respect to Jay Prabhus comments. Here on this website we Prabhupadanugas are discussing OPENLY siddhanta whereas other places they restrict. We have to KNOW the TRUTH. I for one am glad to see BOTH sides present their case and thank the Webmaster for allowing this FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION.
The situation is this:
For the cartoons to have a feature where Krsna SAYS something that is NOT in the Krsna Book is SPECULATION.
You can NOT IMAGINE what what Krsna SAYS.
THIS is the WHOLE point – and to make it APPEAR what Krsna SAID as a cartoon is not what Srila Prabhupada wants us to do. THIS is WHY Srila Prabhupada says “Not that you make Krishna a cartoon character and therefore laughing stock”. The whole point is YOU CAN NOT SPECULATE what Krsna SAYS. There has to be EXACT QUOTES of what Krsna SAID otherwise it just becomes a MUNDANE character. This is the problem. You just can NOT IMAGINE what the characters SAID in the cartoon and present that they SAID such and such . The subject matter of Krsna Lila is NOT on MUNDANE platform. We all have to learn from our mistakes. Hope that others see the point. It is NOT about criticism towards anyone – rather we have to LEARN the FACTS to appreciate what Srila Prabhupada OUR guru wants.
71-08-18. Letter: Madhusudana
The point is that these drawings should be realistic. Not that you make Krishna a cartoon character and therefore laughing stock. And hippy ideas shouldn’t be used either. Whatever technique is there, make it realistic. That will be nice.
Note: I think there is some book published based on Krsna Book for children. It is unauthorised: “We cannot water down the philosophy to make it more palatable. Our books must remain as
they are. Do not waste your time anymore with such attempts. We are not going to publish it.”
Letter to: Lilavati
—
Bombay
31 March, 1977
77-03-31
Bhaktivedanta Manor
My dear Lilavati,
Please accept my blessings. I beg to thank you for your letter dated
December 3, 1976, along with the enclosed manuscript. Your letter has taken a
very long time to reach me.
Our literature is not sentimental stories. It is meant to be understood by
the intelligent class of men. Children and those with child-like mentalities
will do better to chant “Hare Krishna” and take prasadam. We cannot water
down the philosophy to make it more palatable. Our books must remain as
they are. Do not waste your time anymore with such attempts. We are not
going to publish it. Whatever books we have got, let them try to understand,
and if they cannot then let them chant “Hare Krishna” and take prasadam.
Hoping this finds you and your husband well.
Your ever well-wisher,
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami
Yes, Srila Prabhupada wanted to create a Brahminical (intellectual) society not a society of fools who watch ‘Bollywood style’ cartoons meant for retarded sentimentalists.
Bangalore are feeding “Ultra Rice” containing ‘chitin’ (made from shellfish and/or insects) on behalf of their masters WEF, Bill Gates and New World Order! If they were really Brahmins they would not become ‘stipendiary slaves’ to these techno-globalist rascals! They do not even follow Srila Prabhupada’s DOM (direction of management) so why print their rubbish on this site?……. Why?
Chitin causes many health problem! Why are they using school-children as “EXPERIMENTAL LAB RATS?” ………….. ON BEHALF OF THEIR GLOBALIST MASTERS? ……………… WHY?
Their infantile ‘cheerleaders’ won’t print this on THEIR SITE! (so who’s the Grinch?)
Conditioned souls cannot just ‘jump into’ Lord Krishna’s rasas (sankya, vatsalya, madhurya) WITHOUT santa and dasya ……… THIS IS CALLED SAHAJIYA!
Where is ‘awe and reverence? (dasya) …. This has to be there!
Another thing is Lord Krishna ‘dolls’ (printed cloth type ones) that are given to children, which are ‘dragged around the floor’ by small toddlers …. Srila Prabhupada also did not approve of this!
Srila Prabhupada as a small child would have a ‘mini’ rathayatra cart which was treated with great respect (and Lord Jagganatha is most forgiving of offenses) so these things should be understood by devotees.
Awe and reverence MUST BE THERE! We don’t however want to be ‘THE DOLL POLICE’ and start snatching dolls from children! But some higher understanding must be there!
Srila Prabhupada’s directions on these matters must be understood by devotees if they wish to advance in spiritual life
Please see also “FAQs about the Little Krishna animated series | ISKCON Bangalore”
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=18883
From the link : http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=18883, there is no answer to be found to the question I put forth ;
” Why the Producer and the Director did not present Lord Shri Krishna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead ?
Why the Krsna cartoon movie was presented with the words such as LEGEND and/or MYTHOLOGY ?
Is Shri Krishna the Legend like the Superman, the Batman, Heeman or any mundane KNOWN, FAMOUS, personality ?
What is the difference between this Krsna Cartoon movie maker apparently made under the supervision of the Devotees of Lord Shri Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead as a Legend, and the other religious movies made by the Karmi film maker of TV series of famous Mahabharat and Ramayan who ALSO presented Lord Shri Krishna and Shri Ram as a Legend or MYTHOLOGY ?
Despite the warning of Srila Prabhupada, WHY the Krsna Cartoon movie makers repeatedly presented the word LEGENDARY WARRIOR or Character in the different series as pointed out by Bhakta Jay’s post which reads ;
“Little Krishna, the LEGENDARY warrior of Vrindavana”
(“Fire and Fury”, episode 5, (“The Legendary Warrior” in the DVD version)
“And so, Little Krishna, the LEGENDARY warrior saved His beloved Vrindavana …”
(“Assault of the Lethal Bird”, episode 9, (“The Legendary Warrior” in the DVD version)
“Interesting stories of Krishna in his younger days allow the kids to form an immediate association with our LEGENDARY character”
(Chanchalapati Das, http://bit.ly/9KJH7l)
It simply seems that the Krsna Cartoon movie makers want to keep the same main stream Bollywood styles film makers such as Mahabharat and Ramayan as a Mayavada presentation. Isn’t it ?
We the devotees perhaps know and understand that it is not SO.
However, the Krsna Cartoon movie was meant for the massive general people all over the World to educate and become aware of the Supreme Personality of Godhead Shri Krishna -vs – the Mayavada.
Alas, the merit of the movie seems lost on account of clearly lacking the proper presentation of the words such as ” FABLE ” and a ” LEGEND “.
Does the “FAQ” about the Little Krishna animated series answer the above cited Questions ?
“The Aryasamajis and others, they take it as LEGEND. But the acaryas, they do not take it as LEGEND. Therefore we have to follow the acaryas.”
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture, 13/12/1970)
Kindly forgive me that I may have offended many innocent serious and sincere dedicated Devotees of the Lord in writing these insignificant comments without knowing the real circumstances under which this Krsna Cartoon movie was produced.
Therefore, I am begging the mercy of the Devotees of the Lord.
A worthless Melaccha ,
Amar Puri.
Dear Amar Puri Prabhu ,
Your comment ( 1. March ) is very-very nice and so touching.
S.B. 4.30.8. Purport
“…Actually, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness there cannot be two opinions. There is only one goal: to serve Kṛṣṇa to one’s best ability. If there is some disagreement over service, such disagreement is to be taken as spiritual. Those who are actually engaged in the service of the Supreme Personality of Godhead cannot be disunited in any circumstance. This makes the Supreme Personality of Godhead very happy and willing to award all kinds of benediction to His devotees, as indicated in this verse. …”
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
In the comments of Hunyadi Marica Prabhu’s quote of the S.B.4.30.8 Purport, I find these lines are very important and quite significantly enlivening which reads as ;
” …………. Those who are actually engaged in the service of the Supreme Personality of Godhead cannot be disunited in any circumstance ………. ”
How true it is, indeed.
However this is not the case with the present GBC corroupted management of Iskcon -vs – those who are trying to serve SELFLESSLY the mission of HDG. Srila Prabhupada as he desires.
That is why there are different opinions even though the goal to serve the mission of Srila Prabhupada may look alike.
The difference is one is full of SELFISH motivation for personal Labha, Puja and Prathistha and the other one is SELFLESS simply serve the mission as the Spiritual Master asks His sincere and serious followers.
That is the difference and disagreement over service and such disagreement can not be taken as Spiritual which please NOTE.
Hari BOL.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.