SYNONYMS: ṛtvik—priests conducting the ceremony; — “Acting as Supersoul, the
Lord gives inspiration to a suitable person to perform the Vedic ritualistic ceremonies.
In this connection, four classes of priests, known as ṛtvik, are required.” (SB 7.3.30 pp)
Don’t Label Us Rtviks
By: Kṛṣṇacandra Dāsa
Kṛṣṇacandra Dāsa – Śrī Vṛndāvan Dham: The term ṛtvik has been bandied around ISKCON as if it is a dirty word. The pejorative use of the term ṛtvik is not dissimilar to the way politically correct people use the term Anti-Semite which has no bearing on the direct or literal meaning of the term but is used to describe a person who hates Jews. Rtvik is a misnomer as the term is a noun that Śrīla Prabhupāda has given in his books for a priest who performs ceremonies for the various Vedas and most certainly has never been used, as far as I have researched, for someone who officiates on behalf of another. The proper use of the term in relationship to the Initiation process would be to refer to the ṛtvik priest or Brahman who conducts the fire yajña or any Vedic ceremony or rite. Śrīla Prabhupāda describes its meaning as:
“Acting as Supersoul, the Lord gives inspiration to a suitable person to perform the Vedic ritualistic ceremonies. In this connection, four classes of priests, known as ṛtvik, are required.”[SB.7.3.30]
We have no idea why the term ṛtvik was introduced by Tamal Krsna Goswami and others to describe the title and function the way they did, in the various conversations that they had about the future of the initiation process within ISKCON, but somehow or other this term got mixed up and confused. No matter what happened in those talks where ṛtvik was brought up, the talks culminated in Śrīla Prabhupāda’s Mandate: Otherwise known as -The July 9th Document. We can only speculate why Śrīla Prabhupāda allowed the term ṛtvik to be used in these discussions but we must understand that the main point is “Representatives of the Ācārya”
“…representative of the acarya, for the purpose of performing initiations, both first initiation and second initiation…” [July 9th Document]
The term ṛtvik is superfluous as Śrīla Prabhupāda mainly used the term as a priest who performs ritualistic ceremonies. In our case this would mean the priest or Brahmin who conducted the fire yajña or sacrifice in the Temple under the direction of the Temple President.
After the Temple President receives a letter from these representatives giving the spiritual name or the thread, he can perform the fire yajna in the temple as was being done before. [July 9th Document]
What must be understood is that Śrīla Prabhupāda established a system for initiation where a devotee is appointed by the GBC to act in an official capacity in the initiation procedure by representing him as the Ācārya; which is specified in the Initiation Procedural Document also known as the July 9th Letter or document. Nowhere in this document does Śrīla Prabhupāda specify or instruct that his representatives act as ṛtvik gurus who initiate their own disciples.
“…Temple Presidents may henceforward send recommendation for first and second initiation to whichever of these eleven representatives are nearest their temple. After considering the recommendation, these representatives may accept the devotee as an initiated disciple of Srila Prabhupada by giving a spiritual name, or in the case of second initiation, by chanting on the Gayatri thread, just as Srila Prabhupada has done. The newly initiated devotees are disciples of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupad…”
“…The name of a newly initiated disciple should be sent by the representative who has accepted him or her to Srila Prabhupada, to be included in His Divine Grace”s “Initiated Disciples” book…” [July 9th Document]
The procedure and function of the Representative of the Ācārya is clearly detailed in this document however the GBC and their various Apologists have refused to obey Śrīla Prabhupāda and have purposefully discredited this document as being a useless exercise.
We have to remember that everything that the Ācārya does is not limited to the devotees present at the time. This is very small minded or parochial to think that a Vaiṣṇava Ācārya and his activities are limited to a small band of GBC men who ultimately betrayed him. The works of a Vaiṣṇava Ācārya of the status of His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda are meant for humanity and should not be limited to the wicked minds of the GBC, Rubber Stamped Gurus, FISKCON apologists and their disciples.
We must understand that Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa dictates who He sends to enlighten mankind and what role and function His representative will play in mankind’s history. Such a vital role in human society cannot be interfered with by the puerile minds of kali yuga men who should in actual fact prostrate themselves in full dandavat obeisance to such a divinely empowered personality such as His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda.
Yet the GBC would have us believe that Śrīla Prabhupāda had no idea that he would leave his body in a few months time, when he signed an unprecedented official mandate, on ISKCON Letterhead on July 9th, making it a legally binding document for his ISKCON society to uphold, thinking that it would be for only a few months! To think that the suddha bhakta would not know exactly when he would leave his body is outrageous to say the least!
This is such a preposterously offensive idea that it is very surprising that any sincere disciple of Śrīla Prabhupāda would not be totally offended by hearing such rascaldom.
The historical facts are that the then GBC who were appointed as Representatives of the Ācārya by Śrīla Prabhupāda as detailed in the July 9th Document did not perform that role given to them by His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda but instead took control of Śrīla Prabhupāda’s ISKCON society and appointed themselves as Ācāryas / Dīkṣā gurus.
The term ṛtvik needs to be removed from our vernacular as a way to describe any devotee who opposes the Rubber Stamped Guru system of the GBC.
I am not a ṛtvik I follow Śrīla Prabhupāda. It is as simple as that.
The fact that we don’t have functioning representatives of the Ācārya in our ISKCON society is due to the fact that the GBC Rubber Stamped Gurus, their disciples and the multitude of Apologists do not represent His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda but represent some other interest.
The GBC, Rubber Stamped Gurus and their apologists would like to think of those who oppose them as having left Śrīla Prabhupāda’s ISKCON society but they could not be further from the truth. It is they who have left Śrīla Prabhupāda and his institution and superimposed their own institution where they live and serve. In fact they are the most heinous offenders of Śrīla Prabhupāda, the paramparā and Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa. They make a mockery out of our glorious Vaiṣṇava tradition and offend, vilify and abuse Śrīla Prabhupāda’s loyal followers.
The disciples are of course the worst offenders in some ways. They get aggressive and vitriolic when their gurus are being exposed for cheaters and rascals and they project their anger, frustration and the fact that they cannot – according to social convention, common decency, moral values, legally or sastrically – defend their exposed guru. They feel completely justified in calling us pigs, vultures etc or labeling us as offenders, aparadhis and so on. They would act on their anger and rage by physical assaults up to the point of premeditated murder for exposing, discussing or rebuking their morally depraved and outright criminal gurus.
For example many of Prabhavisnu’s former disciples still offer puja to him as if his betrayal and rejection of them as disciples does not interfere with his uttma adhikāra status. They refuse to think that as they are offering puja to him he is probably in the arms of his lover in Thailand. But of course this does not matter to them… At the same time these people are vitriolically calling us ṛtvik rascals and Vaiṣṇava aparadhi pigs and demanding that their guru is none of our business. Such is the raw state of denial and ignorance that the GBC and Rubber Stamped Gurus of FISKCON have acculturated into our society.
They would be ‘none of our business’ had their guru left ISKCON and established his own math like Śrīla Prabhupāda’s god brothers did but these reprobates clung to mother ISKCON and leeched of it for decades. So we have every right to expose and rebuke them for ruining Śrīla Prabhupāda’s ISKCON and disrespecting and offending the pure devotee His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda.
So we must educate the devotees in general that the term ṛtvik is a misnomer and misleading and should not be used to describe the loyal followers of Śrīla Prabhupāda.
THE END
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is that called ṛtvik-ācārya?
Prabhupāda: Ṛtvik, yes.
Re-posted from: Why the Ritvik System is bonafide!
Why the Ritvik System is bonafide!
Ritviks are the priests authorized by the spiritual master or his institution to accept students on behalf of ISKCON and Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada made this perfectly clear. This understanding of the procedure Prabhupada prescribed is consistent with references to ritviks mentioned in Srila Prabhupada’s books. (Letter July 9th)
Often devotees opposed to Srila Prabhupada’s ritvik-system for initiations deliberately use the term “ritvik-vada” for the negative connotation this seems to imply. (For instance, the ideas of the sunyavadas, mayavadas, and advaitavadas are condemned by Vaisnava acaryas.) In truth, the term “vada” has no negative conotation. It refers to a philosophical system. There exists no such philosophy as “ritvik-vada”. Acceptance of a specific procedure for conducting a Vedic ritual in no way constitutes a “vada”, or philosophical system. If someone insists on calling ritvik a “vada”, he could use a more fitting term, such as “Prabhupada-vada.” Devotees of the “ritvik camp” believe that all of Srila Prabhupada’s orders are perfect and should be accepted as such by those who claim to be his disciples — particularly those who are leaders in ISKCON.
The attempt of IskCon bogus GBC gurus to degrade the transcendental Vedic term “rtvijah” or “ritvik” to a derogatory word is one more example of offenses that have entered iskcon due to neglecting Srila Prabhupada’s instructions in this regard. In Vedic culture, a ritvik is an exalted priest. Such priests were often respected as gurus, yet they never pretended to be as good as Lord Hari. By the order of the Acarya, the rtvijah recites the mantras that request the presence of Lord Visnu in the fire of Vedic sacrifice (agni-hotra), and he then makes offerings to the Supreme Lord according to Vedic sastra. The rtvijah performs an exalted function. He is a pure brahmin or Vaisnava who is never concerned about the political correctness or convenience of his stance.
Offensive GBC Resolution against Srila Prabhupada:
Iskcon GBC Resolution 304 states: “Whereas the doctrine that Srila Prabhupada desired to continue to act as diksa-guru after his departure from this world, and did not desire any of his disciples to give diksa, or initiation, in succession after him is an errant philosophical deviation (known as ritvikism); and Whereas ritvikism directly contradicts the principle of parampara.
Srila Prabhupada: “I have selected you among eleven men as ‘rittvik‘ or representative of the acharya, to give initiations, both first and second initiation, on my behalf.” (July 10th)
“…the process for initiation to be followed in the future.” (July 11th)
“…continue to become ritvik and act on my charge.” (July 19th)
“…continue to become ritvik and act on my behalf.” (July 31th)
In these documents we find words such as “continue” and “future” which along with the word “henceforward” all point to the permanency of the ritvik system. There is no statement from Srila Prabhupada that even hints that this system was to terminate on his departure.
Above GBC statement is a direct blasphemy against Srila Prabhupada, for which the GBC collectively will receive their karma und be punished for sure.
JUST A FEW PLACES WHERE RITVIKS IN VEDIC SOCIETY PERFORMED CEREMONIES. SO CALLED GURUS PERFORM INITIATION CEREMONIES TODAY ALSO– ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THEY DO NOT WANT TO BE CALLED RITVIKS. ALTHOUGH THEY CANNOT COMMUNICATE WITH KRSNA THEY PREFER TO BE CALLED DIKSA GURUS.
SB 9.1.15 adhvaryuna–by the rtvik priest;
SB 4.5.7 rtvijah–the priests;
SB 4.5.18 rtvijah–the priests
SB 4.6.52 rtvijam–of the priests;
SB 4.7.16 rtvik–the priests;
SB 4.7.27 rtvijah–the priests;
SB 4.7.45 rtvijah–the priests;
SB 4.7.56 rtvigbhih–with the priests;
SB 4.13.26 rtvijah–the priests;
Srila Prabhupada’s letter July 9th, 1977: Srila Prabhupada indicated that soon He would appoint some of His senior disciples to act as ritvik – representative of the acarya, for the purpose of performing initiations, both first initiation and second initiation. (Letter July 9th)
More here: > http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=39901
These Anti-Ritvik DEVIANTS who want to DISOBEY Srila Prabhupada are MOTIVATED by MONEY SCREWING AND SLAVERY MAKING:
Bhaktivedanta Manor Accounts SALARIES
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=38907#comment-24810
http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Accounts/Ends49/0000259649_ac_20111231_e_c.pdf
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Anti Ritvik DEVIANTS want the BOGUS gbc manufactured CONDITIONED SOUL BABOONS to be worshiped AS GOOD AS GOD. They want to REPLACE Srila Prabhupada the BONAFIDE DIKSA GURU because they are DEMONIAC:
BABOON LILA:
Bg 16.4 T The Divine And Demoniac Natures
dambho darpo ‘bhimanas ca
krodhah parusyam eva ca
ajnanam cabhijatasya
partha sampadam asurim
SYNONYMS
dambhah–pride; darpah–arrogance; abhimanah–conceit; ca–and; krodhah–anger; parusyam–harshness; eva–certainly; ca–and; ajnanam–ignorance; ca–and; abhijatasya–one who is born of; partha–O son of Prtha; sampadam–nature; asurim–demoniac.
TRANSLATION
Arrogance, pride, anger, conceit, harshness and ignorance–these qualities belong to those of demoniac nature, O son of Prtha.
PURPORT
In this verse, the royal road to hell is described. THE DEMONIAC WANT TO MAKE A SHOW OF RELIGION AND ADVANCEMENT IN SPIRITUAL SCIENCE, ALTHOUGH THEY DO NOT FOLLOW THE PRINCIPLES. They are always arrogant or proud in possessing some type of education or so much wealth. THEY DESIRE TO BE WORSHIPED BY OTHERS, AND DEMAND RESPECTABILITY, ALTHOUGH THEY DO NOT COMMAND RESPECT. Over trifles they become very angry and speak harshly, not gently. THEY DO NOT KNOW WHAT SHOULD BE DONE AND WHAT SHOULD NOT BE DONE. THEY DO EVERYTHING WHIMSICALLY, ACCORDING TO THEIR OWN DESIRE, AND THEY DO NOT RECOGNIZE ANY AUTHORITY. These demoniac qualities are taken on by them from the beginning of their bodies in the wombs of their mothers, and as they grow they manifest all these inauspicious qualities.
Bg 16.10 T The Divine And Demoniac Natures
The demoniac, taking shelter of INSATIABLE LUST, PRIDE AND FALSE PRESTIGE, and being thus illusioned, are always sworn to unclean work, attracted by the impermanent.
Note: the Poisoning of Srila Prabhupada, Replacing Srila Prabupada as Current Diksa Guru and deviating from July 9th 1977 Ritvik Order, Changing Srila Prabhupada’s books, Driving out devotees who accept the Ritvik System , take over the Temples, Usurp the BBT, take over Srila Prabhupada’s prospective disciples come under the category of “THE DEMONS DIMINISH ALL KINDS OF WELFARE”
Krsna Book Chapter 4
Thus being advised by the demonic ministers, Kaṁsa, who was from the very beginning the greatest rascal, decided to persecute the brāhmaṇas and Vaiṣṇavas, being entrapped by the shackles of all-devouring, eternal time. He ordered the demons to harass all kinds of saintly persons, and then he entered his house. The adherents of Kaṁsa were all influenced by the modes of passion as well as illusioned by the modes of ignorance, and their only business was to create enmity with saintly persons. Such activities can only reduce the duration of life. The demons accelerated the process and invited their deaths as soon as possible. THE RESULT OF PERSECUTING SAINTLY PERSONS IS NOT ONLY UNTIMELY DEATH. THE ACT IS SO OFFENSIVE THAT THE ACTOR ALSO GRADUALLY LOSES HIS BEAUTY, HIS FAME AND HIS RELIGIOUS PRINCIPLES, AND HIS PROMOTION TO HIGHER PLANETS IS ALSO CHECKED. DRIVEN BY VARIOUS KINDS OF MENTAL CONCOCTIONS, THE DEMONS DIMINISH ALL KINDS OF WELFARE. AN OFFENSE AT THE LOTUS FEET OF THE DEVOTEES AND BRĀHMAṆAS IS A GREATER OFFENSE THAN THAT COMMITTED AT THE LOTUS FEET OF THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD. THUS A GODLESS CIVILIZATION BECOMES THE SOURCE OF ALL CALAMITIES.
Thus ends the Bhaktivedanta purport of the Fourth Chapter of Kṛṣṇa, “Kaṁsa Begins His Persecutions.”
BABOONS AND FOLLOWERS DESTINATION:
SB 6.7.14 Indra Offends His Spiritual Master, Brhaspati.
A stone boat would be unable to float and would sink in the water with its passengers. SIMILARLY, THOSE WHO MISLEAD PEOPLE GO TO HELL, AND THEIR FOLLOWERS GO WITH THEM.
Isopanisad 12
THE PSEUDO RELIGIONISTS HAVE NEITHER KNOWLEDGE NOR DETACHMENT FROM MATERIAL AFFAIRS, FOR MOST OF THEM WANT TO LIVE IN THE GOLDEN SHACKLES OF MATERIAL BONDAGE UNDER THE SHADOW OF PHILANTHROPIC ACTIVITIES DISGUISED AS RELIGIOUS PRINCIPLES. BY A FALSE DISPLAY OF RELIGIOUS SENTIMENTS, THEY PRESENT A SHOW OF DEVOTIONAL SERVICE WHILE INDULGING IN ALL SORTS OF IMMORAL ACTIVITIES. IN THIS WAY THEY PASS AS SPIRITUAL MASTERS AND DEVOTEES OF GOD. Such violators of religious principles have no respect for the authoritative acaryas, the holy teachers in the strict disciplic succession. They ignore the Vedic injunction acaryopasana–“One must worship the acarya”–and Krsna’s statement in the Bhagavad-gita (4.2) evam parampara-praptam, “This supreme science of God is received through the disciplic succession.” INSTEAD, TO MISLEAD THE PEOPLE IN GENERAL THEY THEMSELVES BECOME SO-CALLED ACARYAS, BUT THEY DO NOT EVEN FOLLOW THE PRINCIPLES OF THE ACARYAS.
THESE ROGUES ARE THE MOST DANGEROUS ELEMENTS IN HUMAN SOCIETY. Because there is no religious government, they escape punishment by the law of the state. THEY CANNOT, HOWEVER, ESCAPE THE LAW OF THE SUPREME, WHO HAS CLEARLY DECLARED IN THE BHAGAVAD-GITA THAT ENVIOUS DEMONS IN THE GARB OF RELIGIOUS PROPAGANDISTS SHALL BE THROWN INTO THE DARKEST REGIONS OF HELL (BG. 16.19-20). SRI ISOPANISAD CONFIRMS THAT THESE PSEUDO RELIGIONISTS ARE HEADING TOWARD THE MOST OBNOXIOUS PLACE IN THE UNIVERSE AFTER THE COMPLETION OF THEIR SPIRITUAL MASTER BUSINESS, WHICH THEY CONDUCT SIMPLY FOR SENSE GRATIFICATION.
Very nicely said ;
” They would be ‘none of our business’ had their guru left ISKCON and established his own math like Śrīla Prabhupāda’s god brothers did but these reprobates clung to mother ISKCON and leached of it for decades. So we have every right to expose and rebuke them for ruining Śrīla Prabhupāda’s ISKCON and disrespecting and offending the pure devotee His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda.”
When a sane person comes to think about it ” none of our business gurus in the Iskcon and left out side of the Iskcon gurus clung to mother Iskcon and leached of it for decades ” that the Super soul as Paramatma in their hearts certainly sanction their activities which they conduct and carry forward along side their followers – bewildered Jivas who are apparently not ready yet to follow the pure Instructions of Srila Prabhupada in cultivating KC indicate strongly that there is a room to play such part for those none of our business gurus in order to attract all kinds of fallen – bewildered Jivas so that they may be brought up to the next acceptance level of the KC where they are ready to follow the Instructions of the Pure Devotee Srila Prabhupada in their lives.
Does it not make sense ?
Indeed, we must educate everyone including the devotees in general to present the KC as it is being the loyal followers of Śrīla Prabhupāda without any Label as Rtviks.
Hari BOL.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
In one utube clip of Prabhavisnu dressed in white and giving class in the temple the devotees actually applaud him!?
Perhaps these same devotees would do well to take a moment and look around at their young daughters, sisters and wives and wonder what it must be like to be so impoverished, drug-addicted or controlled to have to prostitute out your young women to some lusty man three times her age to do what he likes to her simply because he has the money.
I wonder if devotees would applaud PV if they could actually speak with these girls, (yes they are real people) and hear what it’s like to service these old men and what it must be like to be sex-slaves day in, day out with no chance of freedom. I wonder how loud we would clap for our beloved PV then.
In the country I live in sex-tours to Thailand are illegal! They are illegal because even the ‘karmis’ we slag off in our SB classes know how terrible these girls lives are and understand how wrong this behaviour is! They won’t tolerate old men exploiting young women less fortunate than themselves, but in Iskcon we applaud such behaviour from exploitive cheaters and then give them the honour of the asana from which to instruct us all on spiritual purity. It’s a kind of madness!
As Srila Prabhupada has quite clearly used this term ‘ritvik’ to describe those who will represent him (on his behalf), so why is this word beying so used to malign devotees is such a derogatory fashion? Srila Prabhupada did not have any problem with this word or indeed it’s obvious meaning and function yet those persons in the FISKCON ‘hierarchy’ are using it FALSLY in a manner which is at odds with the desire of Srila Prabhupada. The deviant GBC are using this term in the same fashion as those zealots and hypocrites of the Churches, in the middle ages when they would LABEL anyone who would expose their corrupt practices of deviation, debauchery, greed, murder and child molestation, as ‘heretics’ in an attempt to quash any dissent or valid criticism. In the same way the ultra-conservative ‘right wing’ politicians in the 50s ‘McCarthy Era’ used this same tactic of calling someone a RED if they were active in the pursuit of human rights, racial equality, social justice etc. This is a ‘smoke screen’ diversionary tactic of “give a dog a bad name and hang it” (but the name, nor the meaning itself is not “bad” otherwise why would it have the approval of Srila Prabhupada) Think about it! They simply want to “shut down’ any discussion of any relevance and surround themselves with compliant, ‘leave your brain at the door’ neophyte, sychophants and flunkys who will simply offer patronising, wimpish and servile praise to their incompetent ‘masters’ all in the name of “humility”,makes you almost want to be sick! doesn’t it?
The websites of FISKCON like ‘CHAKRA’ or Gaudiya Math ‘Back to Bhakti’ (or is that Bhaksheesh!) etc offer LITTLE in the way of philosophical discussion, debate or difference of opinion, just the same old patronising drivel or short exclamations “Oh! isn’t it wonderful!” (which would be great if indeed it was!) and lovely little moments of tacit and parochial approval. Oh! when ignorance is bliss, tis folly to be wise. After all if you are told that “a rope is a snake” and the next day that “a snake is a rope” what is the use of intelligence? Ignorance is bliss all the way to hell! in complete defiance of His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada and His true wishes and order.
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
These group have adopted the ritvik process of initiation
by using the July 9th 1977, as Srila Prabhupada’s instruction
to perform post samadhi ritvik initiation and then declare
themselves as Srila Prabhupada’s initiated disciples.
Therefore, these group of people should be rightfully called
the ritvik followers of Srila Prabhupada or the priestly class
followers of Srila Prabhupada. The ritviks advance to become
post samadhi priestly gurus of Srila Prabhupada. Once they
reach this priestly stage their advancement ends. They have
no idea beyond that. This is their ritvik ideology. Foolish ritviks.
HARE KRSNA
***
[webmaster: Dear SG, we are bored. You are so accustomed to your wrong concocted mantra “foolish ritviks” which unfortunately isn’t the one Srila Prabhupada instructed us for going back to Godhead. You are trapped by your own mind and the buzzword “ritvik”.
Why are you always only repeating your “own mantra” and deliberately offending other devotees, and why are you not showing us your personal “stage of advancement” instead, which you are refusing to the loyal followers of Śrīla Prabhupāda and his instructions, by your comment? Where are your practical, authorized solutions? You seem to never mention them, are there any at all, apart from grumbling?
Amar Puri’s question at http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=20952#comment-25219 hasn’t been answered by you neither.
First of all kindly inquire about Srila Prabhupada’s actual instructions and teachings.
We respect your repeated attempts of joining our community association by your comments. Reading the articles on this website, which you obviously do sometimes at least, is a good sign of interest, and you will profit by them. But you should sincerely try to improve your spiritual understanding and dealing with devotees, otherwise your future comments will be received only by our friendly spam filters again.
Hare Krishna
]
Ohhhh ….. wow, guess who is back ? Surprise, surprise, it is none other than, Shriman SG, one of the lover of the PRE/POST Samadhi follower of Srila Prabhupada.
SG. I asked you many times that what is your position of understanding about whether or not Srila Prabhupada is in a Samadhi during His manifested and non-manifested Lila to which you have never answered thus far. WHY ?
WHY SG , you still dare to write your comments with this such non-sense of Pre/Post Samadhi of Srila Prabhupada thinking Srila Prabhupada as an ordinary mundane religious leader of some sort ?
SG, are you indeed a sincere and serious follower of Srila Prabhupada’s VANI – Instructions ?
If, your answer is YES, then, explain please WHY and WHAT you find that Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions are any different during His presence or absence ?
Be honest to yourself, SG and answer these questions please, and I beg very humbly from the web master to please allow SG’s posting whatever comments he answer to my questions.
Hope it meets the Readers satisfactory.
Hari BOL.
YS…….. Amar Puri.
Dear S.G.
Formal initiation in itself does not constitute (pre or post Srila Prabhupada’s physical departure) whether or not one is a disciple of Srila Prabhupada or even if you have received formal initiation by someone else (within or without ISKCON). What makes a person a disciple of Srila Prabhupada is whether that person follows His instructions and spiritual direction and does not deviate. One must always follow the last Acharya within our Sri Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya these things were clearly enunciated by Srila Narottama Das Thakur. He also added that ones spiritual advancement has little or nothing to do with ‘when’ one has been formally initiated (or by who) in relation to others or whether that person is male or female. Formal initiation is a secondary thing also, so why are you placing emphasis on these things? and also ‘pre and post samadhi’ what this?
Srila Prabhupada is not dead He resides in the hearts of all those who follow His instructions. Those who follow the directions of Srila Prabhupada are his disciples. Srila Prabhupada’s original books are also Srila Prabhupada himself and should be read “in their original form” as He has instructed. ONLY by doing this can one advance on the spiritual path.
Those persons whether ‘formally’ initiated by Srila Prabhupada or not who ‘alter’ Srila Prabhupada’s books, manufacture their bogus guru lineage, attempt to ‘overide’ Srila Prabhupada’s instructions by merging into Mayavada philosophy and mundane Hinduism, cheat and exploit their ‘disciples’, plunder and pillage Srila Prabhupada’s property, engage in leeching from their ‘brainwashed disciples’ money which is used for years to pay for prostitutes, plunder money for their own personal bank accounts, cover up and reward pedophiles, gangsters and gundas are NOT followers of Srila Prabhupada and are NOT His disciples but are indeed usurpers, pretenders, hypocrites, liars, thieves, aparadhi’s and reprobates.
Iskcon devotees offer flowers, prayers and bhoga to their guru’s and follow their instructions even though their guru’s might be on the other side of the planet, many thousands of miles away. But when others do the same with Srila Prabhupada after recieving knowledge and instructions from him through his books and lectures they are told they’re wrong because Prabhupada is now out of reach, gone, departed!
So I’m wondering where in Scripture does it give the actual distance at which a guru is considered unreachable?
And can someone explain how they believe Srila Prabhupada is now imprisoned in the Spiritual sky, restricted from giving guidance, care and inspiration to his followers even if he wants to?
Dear SG Prabhu !
“You have asked if it is true that the Spiritual Master remains in the material universe until all of His disciples are transferred to the Spiritual Sky. The answer is yes, this is the rule.
Therefore, every student should be very much careful not to commit any offense which will be detrimental to this promotion to the Spiritual Kingdom, and thereby the Spiritual Master has to incarnate again to deliver him. This sort of mentality will be a kind of offense to the Spiritual Master. Out of the ten kinds of offenses, the number one offense is to disobey the orders of the Spiritual Master. The instructions given to the disciple by the Spiritual Master at the time of initiation should be strictly followed. That will make one advance to the spiritual path. But if one deliberately defies such instructions, then his advancement is hampered from the very beginning.
This defying means to disconnect the relationship with the Spiritual Master.
And anyone who defies and therefore disconnects the relationship with the Spiritual Master can hardly expect the assistance of the Spiritual Master LIFE AFTER LIFE. I hope this will clear up this question sufficiently for you.”
( SP Letter to Jayapataka, 11/7/69 )
Yes indeed, defying the Spiritual Master’s VANI – Instructions simply means disconnecting oneself with the relationship with the Spiritual Master.
Once one is disconnected, the flow of the guidance in the form of a faith disappears and thus, one is lost in the bewilderment of the material nature.
The guidance of the Spiritual Master through either The Book Bhagavata or the Person Bhagavata remains present in the material universe for the sincere and serious persons BUT that person who has defied the Spiritual Master’s Instructions will not take and accept it.
I hope SG is not one of them as he comes back to this web site in order to clear up some of his doubts.
I hope SG reveals himself more as to what are his doubts so that his doubts may be clarified as per the Instructions of Srila Prabhupada.
Is SG ready for it ? Let us wait and see till we hear from him.
Hari BOL.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
” webmaster: Dear SG, we are bored.”
SG – We are bored represents your goodself , some hardcore and a few
fanatical ritviks. It is expected.
“You are so accustomed to your wrong concocted mantra “foolish ritviks”
which unfortunately isn’t the one Srila Prabhupada instructed us for going
back to Godhead. You are trapped by your own mind and the buzzword
“ritvik”. ”
SG – Foolish means lacking good sense or judgment or being stupid, silly,
idiotic, brainless, unintelligent, half-baked, harebrained etc. Its not a concoction,
you can check it up in the English dictionary.
Ritvik means a priest, one who performs yajnas usually on behalf of someone’s
request. This term is also not a concoction. Srila Prabhupada has used it to
describe or to mean a priest. So, when you put the two words together it
means ………
” Why are you always only repeating your “own mantra” and deliberately
offending other devotees,”
You are being bias here, webmaster moderator. Look at all the comments
you allowed to be published written by your regular ritvik commenters.
The comments are full of offensive meaning and words that is directed at
even the regular readers and general public and you are claiming
these people are devotees. Devotees of what ?
“why are you not showing us your personal “stage of advancement
” instead”
SG – Why the need for my personal stage of advancement? The ritviks
manifest themselves as very advanced in spiritual life. Even though Srila
Prabhupada is not here physically the ritviks claims that he is and are
somehow able to communicate with him in getting his permission to initiate
initiation and accept devotees as his disciples. Even the previous acaryas
in our disciplic line has not claimed such a thing.
” loyal followers of Srila Prabhupada and his instructions”
SG – As loyal followers of Srila Prabhupada and simply following his directions/
instruction is understandable and acceptable as mentioned by Srila Prabhupada
in his C.C but as ritvik followers and claiming to be his disciple by performing
post samadhi ritvik initiation is bogus.
There is no such instruction what so ever, where Srila Prabhupada has said
he wanted post samadhi ritvik initiation. The most that Srila Prabhupada has
said about ritvik is that it means a priest and there is some mention about its
function in the SB. Furthermore, has anyone ever come across Srila Prabhupada
giving quotes after quotes in support ritviktism as what the foolish ritviks are
doing, cutting and pasting tons and tons of quotes which has no relevance to
ritvik or post samadhi ritvik initiation which the ritviks, the priestly class of
followers are practicing using the July 9th 1977 letter as an excuse.
” Where are your practical, authorized solutions? ”
SG – Did Srila Prabhupada gave instructions that one must become a ritvik
follower, to become a priest to perform post samadhi initiation after his
departure from this planet ? Was this Srila Prabhupada practical, authorized
solutions for future initiation? If authorized, where is proof ? Is it the July 9th
1977 letter or the Topanga Canyon Pyramid House conversation with the late
Tamal Krishna on December 3, 1980 or the interview with one of the senior
devotees of ISKCON, Guru Kripa prabhu etc, etc, etc, which the ritviks seem
to favour so much and are so fond repeating over and over again, Are
all this suppose to be proofs?
“You seem to never mention them, are there any at all,
apart from grumbling?”
SG – Your ritvik commenters are constantly grumbling in their comments,
about Iskcon, about Gbc, about their appointed gurus about other vaisnava
followers about Gaudiya Math, their gurus and followers, about other followers
of Srila Prabhupada, practically just about anyone who says just the opposite
of what these foolish ritvik are saying, and you see it fit to publish them while
anyone who does not follow like dumb sheeps, who disagrees with the ritviks,
you call it grumbling. Besides being bias, webmaster moderator, you are also
being a hypocrite.
“First of all kindly inquire about Srila Prabhupada’s actual instructions and
teachings.”
SG – So, please let us have what you deem as Srila Prabhupada’s actual
instructions and teachings.
” Reading the articles on this website, which you obviously do sometimes
at least, is a good sign of interest, and you will profit by them.”
SG – Yes, almost twice, daily.
” otherwise your future comments will be received only by our friendly spam
filters again.”
SG – You are the webmaster moderator of this website. You can choose to
reject or accept my comments. That is your choice but the posting of my
comments will continue as I continue with my spiritual life being simply a
follower of Srila Prabhupada in the absence of a bonafide guru. One do
not need to copy or imitate what Srila Prabhupada has done. One just
need to follow his directions or instructions in devotional service according
to his or her capacity. Sri Krsna did not say that one must be an acarya of
some spiritual institution or a guru with many disciples or a president of a
big temple or some kind of a initiated ritvik follower etc. etc. in order to be
eligible to go back home back to Godhead. All Sri Krsna asked was to think
of Him at the end of one’s life in order to return home back to Him.
That is the goal of one’s life, is it not?
HARE KRSNA
SG — Foolish means lacking good sense or judgement or being stupid, silly,
idiotic, brainless, unintelligent, half-baked, harebrained etc. Its not a concoction,
you can check it up in the English dictionary.
Yes SG as it appears from your message that you are truly trapped around your very own foolishness indeed when you do not realize what you are saying in your comments in rebutling with your same questions over and over again that which have been answered very elaborately by many writers on this web site, and yet you dare to claim when you say this ;
” Reading the articles on this website, which you obviously do sometimes
at least, is a good sign of interest, and you will profit by them.”
SG — Yes, almost twice, daily.
If you do read WHY you are not posting your objections with the questions you are foolishly posting in rebutling same ?
What is your problem ? Does it not show that how foolish you are, SG ?
Read this example in your message what it says ;
” SG — You are the webmaster moderator of this website. You can choose to
reject or accept my comments. That is your choice but the posting of my
comments will continue as I continue with my spiritual life being simply a
follower of Srila Prabhupada in the absence of a bonafide guru. One do
not need to copy or imitate what Srila Prabhupada has done. One just
need to follow his directions or instructions in devotional service according
to his or her capacity. Sri Krsna did not say that one must be an acarya of
some spiritual institution or a guru with many disciples or a president of a
big temple or some kind of a initiated ritvik follower etc. etc. in order to be
eligible to go back home back to Godhead. All Sri Krsna asked was to think
of Him at the end of one’s life in order to return home back to Him.
That is the goal of one’s life, is it not ? ”
In your above message, you admit that ” ……. One just need to follow his directions or instructions in devotional service according to his or her capacity. …. ”
Who is His directions or instructions ?
Is He HDG. Srila Prabhupada or NOT ? If He is indeed Srila Prabhupada, then, how you are getting His Instructions in the absence of a bonafide guru as you wrote ?
Through a Book Bhagavata, isn’t it, SG ?
Therefore, it means simply that there is no difference between the Book Bhagavata or the bonafide guru Person Bhagavata, isn’t it ?
What and where is the difference between the TWO Bhagavatas when one is absent, another one is present,SG ?
Where is the questions of PRE/ POST Samadhi of the bonafide Guru as you are foolishly trapped with it in your entire thinking in the presentation ?
Hope you do answer these questions.
I truly and sincerely appreciate the Web Master accepting my request for SG’s foolish posting and am hopeful that SG may reply to these questions sensibly with open mind.
Thank you very much.
Hare Krishna. Hari BOL.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Srila Prabhupada as the Founder-Acarya of his Society, saw that none of his disciples had any qualification as diksa-guru, or even sannyasa for that matter.
In answer to the very clear question posed by his ‘senior’ disciples viz..”IN THE FUTURE when you are NO LONGER WITH US, how will initiations be carried on”, he replied that he would ‘recommend some of you to act as officiating acaryas’ and then reconfirmed same in the July 9th signed document to all temples- rittik representative of the acarya.
As the prominent current link in the Brahma-Madhva-Gaudya Sampradaya, Srila Prabhupada devised a way to continue initiations as the Founder-Acarya after his physical departure. This of course may appear to some as not strictly following Vedic tradition, however in this age we are all less than sudra, there is no tradition followed and there are no qualified brahmanas.
Just to get us mlecchas to chant, lead a clean life and try to perform a basic standard of sadhana Bhakti, Srila Prabhupada made numerous adjustments and concessions to Vedic traditions and even so we still have so much difficulty. He also stated to his dear servant Sruti Kirti prabhu, that the illnesses he suffered for us were caused by fallen disciples not following the regulative principles, and that 80% of the leaders are not following correctly.
As Srila Prabhupada said to his Godbrother HH BV Puri Maharaja…’then what can I do’! …Well what Srila Prabhupada did do was leave us a perfect system for us to follow perfectly and not to change anything.
This is also completely in line with his quote from Srimad Viraraghava Acarya, an acarya in the disciplic succession of the Ramanuja-sampradaya, who “has remarked in his commentary that candalas, or conditioned souls who are born in lower than sudra families, can also be initiated according to circumstances. The formalities may be slightly changed here and there to make them Vaisnavas.”
Dear Mr SG, if Srila Prabhupada’s written instructions don’t suit you, then perhaps you can go elsewhere and maybe harass the GBC of the international society for hindu consciousness, about the non-sastric voting in of conditioned soul gurus. IMHO that would be a truly worthwhile endeavour.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Yhs
Downunder das says:
6. March 2014 at 12:19 am
” Dear Mr SG, if Srila Prabhupada’s written instructions don’t suit you, then
perhaps you can go elsewhere and maybe harass the GBC of the international
society for hindu consciousness, about the non-sastric voting in of conditioned
soul gurus. IMHO that would be a truly worthwhile endeavour.”
SG – That’s the problem, what the ritviks are doing with this post samadhi
ritvik initiation and claiming to be his disciples are not Srila Prabhupada’s
instructions. So, don’t say they are his instructions. Don’t add and mix to
change the truth. The Iskcon Gbc is doing a fine job of it. And it is not
your business to tell where one should go and should not to post their
comments. This is an open public forum. If you dislike SG’s comments
please, don’t read it. Why get yourself all worked up and manifest your
racist mentality. Why blame the hindus for Iskcon’s leaders lack of faith
in following their founder acarya’s instructions.
HARE KRSNA
Dear SG, it’s always interesting seeing Vedic truth manifesting in material life, like in your comment above. Because:
The problem is that you are simply not able to realize how brainwashed (by unauthorized gurus) and stubborn you are, regardless of what all these Prabhupadanuga devotees have been trying to explain you over several years on this website now. If you are not able to read for yourself, to grasp the meaning for yourself, and to realize the truth in Srila Prabhupada’s written instructions, but prefer to stay in your brainwashed cage (by unauthorized gurus), what can we do then? You have my sympathy at least.
SG: “That’s the problem, what the ritviks are doing…”
Did you notice the topic of this article “Don’t Label Us Rtviks”? What is this article about then?
SG: “… with this post samadhi ritvik initiation and claiming to be his disciples are not Srila Prabhupada’s instructions. So, don’t say they are his instructions. Don’t add and mix to change the truth. The Iskcon Gbc is doing a fine job of it. ”
We respectfully disagree. Srila Prabhupada’s written instructions are accepted by those who are sincerely trying to follow him, and the Iskcon Gbc is not doing a fine job and not manifesting such sincere following, because they are only following hand-selected instructions of Srila Prabhupada which they regard to be fitting in their personal agenda, and the others are simply ignored or adulterated; they add and mix to change the truth. For example this most important one, which is quite clear:
http://www.iskcon-truth.com/ritvik-letter-july9th.html
SG: “This is an open public forum. … Why get yourself all worked up and manifest your
racist mentality.”
So now we are “racists” also? What else do you have up your sleeve for blaspheming sincere devotees following Srila Prabhupada and his instructions?
SG — That’s the problem, what the ritviks are doing with this post samadhi
ritvik initiation and claiming to be his disciples are not Srila Prabhupada’s
instructions. So, don’t say they are his instructions. Don’t add and mix to
change the truth. The Iskcon Gbc is doing a fine job of it. …….. ”
This person SG dares to show his foolishness every time when he makes comments in his posting repeatedly indicating ; ” …… post samadhi ritvik initiation …… ” which has been answered many times very clearly with Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions by so many participants on this topic and yet SG very cleverly and ignorantly avoid to accept its crystal clear explanation in instructions of HDG. Srila Prabhupada.
The dilemma is that SG admits in his writings ; ” ……. One just need to follow his directions or instructions in devotional service according to his or her capacity. …. ”
I asked SG for clarification in my posting with regard to the above which reads ;
” Who is His directions or instructions ?
Is He HDG. Srila Prabhupada or NOT ? If He is indeed Srila Prabhupada, then, how you are getting His Instructions in the absence of a bonafide guru as you wrote ?
Through a Book Bhagavata, isn’t it, SG ?
Therefore, it means simply that there is no difference between the Book Bhagavata or the bonafide guru Person Bhagavata, isn’t it ?
What and where is the difference between the TWO Bhagavatas when one is absent, another one is present,SG ?
Where is the questions of PRE/ POST Samadhi of the bonafide Guru as you are foolishly trapped with it in your entire thinking in the presentation ?
Hope you do answer these questions.
Alas, thus far, SG does not care a bit to attend giving the answer in clarifications upon asking same besides its repeating non-sense PRE/POST Samadhi FOOLISHLY over and over again in his every comments.
Another example of his FOOLISHNESS comments are in his writings again ;
” SG: “This is an open public forum. … Why get yourself all worked up and manifest your
racist mentality.”
Since we the followers of Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions accept the Order from the Spiritual Master without any concoction, therefore, we are ” racist ” as per SG and yet SG tells a lie in his comments when he admits ; ” ……. One just need to follow his directions or instructions in devotional service according to his or her capacity. …. ”
How hypocritical this SG person is ?
That is why SG supports and writes as such in his comments ; ” …….. The Iskcon Gbc is doing a fine job of it. ” because SG like the gbc gurus are taking advantage of Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions without accepting the presence of HDG. Srila Prabhupada as the BOOK Bhagavata to fulfill their own personal agenda.
Hypocrisy pays, indeed.
Hari BOL.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
March 7, 1966, New York
Bhagavad-gita 2.12
“A scripture should not be interpreted. A scripture should be taken as it is, as it is. And besides that, interpretation… When interpretation is required? When a thing is not properly understood, at that time, interpretation is required. Otherwise, there is no necessity of interpretation.”
Jai Srila Prabhupada.
There are always a steady ‘supply’ of fools such as SG, as they do not know what is the desire of Srila Prabhupada but instead are ‘star struck’ by these GBC pompous, goofballs just like little girls at a Justin Bieber concert. FISKCON is like a ‘revolving door’ where people are leaving as fast as there are new ones coming in, but because they are just being fed ‘poison’ and not what Srila Prabhupada had instructed, they are in many cases no better off after they leave. Srila Prabhupada wanted that EVERYBODY in the world would follow His spiritual direction and instructions because He is Acharya and only link to the Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya. This of course means that Srila Prabhupada desires millions if not billions of disciples, not fools and rascals in the garb of “guru” changing all of Srila Prabhupadas very words. They (FISCKON) are churning out dozens of “sannyasis” and bogus “gurus” in a mood of desperation, to try and bolster their numbers and have JUST become ”real estate developers” with no REAL connection to Srila Prabhupada.
Sudarsana Das Vanacari says:
9. March 2014 at 1:44 am
” There are always a steady ‘supply’ of fools such as SG, as
they do not know what is the desire of Srila Prabhupada
but instead are ‘star struck’ by these GBC pompous,
goofballs just like little girls at a Justin Bieber concert.”
SG – Yes, I may be a fool and may not fully understand
what the desires of Srila Prabhupada are, but you are
an […deleted by webmaster].
HARE KRSNA
Unfortunately Mr SG is unable to stop displaying his poor fund of knowledge in both spiritual and material matters.
SG..”.Why get yourself all worked up and manifest your
racist mentality. Why blame the hindus for Iskcon’s leaders lack of faith
in following their founder acarya’s instructions”.
FYI the term ‘Hindu’ (misnomer) is used to describe the varied religionists that are loosely grouped together supposedly adhering to Vedic teachings. They are what they are, but unfortunately ISKCON leadership from top to bottom is to blame for deviations too numerous to mention…not the ‘Hindus’.
There is no question of ‘racism’, a term which refers to derogatory remarks or actions towards the biological decendancy of a group or nation of people, not religious beliefs.
I would also suggest that by your continued ‘rantings’ on this forum, you are the one who is all worked up and got yourself into a “pickle”.
Each and every statement of SG tells a lie, how deceitful he is in the denial to accept HDG. Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions when he says :
” SG — Yes, I may be a fool and may not fully understand what the desires of Srila Prabhupada are,….. ”
and yet he dares to criticize and classify the Spiritual Master’s Instructions as PRE/POST Samadhi Instructions despite the elaborated explanation given by Srila Prabhupada which has been presented here by the various participants. What does it mean ?
Does it not mean that SG is in DENIAL because he does not believe and accept Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions ?
It is better for SG that he simply leaves and exist gracefully from this group with mutual respect , and join to preach where his concocted duly interpreted like minded Ideas of Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions may be welcome and accepted by the audience.
Hope this meets SG satisfactory.
Hari BOL.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Downunder das says:
6. March 2014 at 12:19 am
“maybe harass the GBC of the international society for
hindu consciousness, about the non-sastric voting in
of conditioned soul gurus. IMHO that would be a truly
worthwhile endeavour.”
Downunder das says:
10. March 2014 at 12:02 am
FYI the term ‘Hindu’ (misnomer) is used to describe the
varied religionists that are loosely grouped together
supposedly adhering to Vedic teachings. They are what
they are, but unfortunately ISKCON leadership from top
to bottom is to blame for deviations too numerous to
mention…not the ‘Hindus’
SG – You could have easily said ” GBC of the international
society for Krsna consciousness” instead of Hindu consciousness,
so we know what you actually meant when you first said it
for you are what you are and you are not the first person to
pass such comments.
The worse was one mataji who passed a comment saying
” the hindus need to be controlled ” on this website about
three or four years ago about an article on Bhaktivendanta
Manor and its activites.
HARE KRSNA
Dear SG,
There are devotees who do not able to accept Srila Prabhupada because He left His body.
But the Prabhupada anugas can help you , too.
You should decide what do you want ? Do you ask for help or you want to destroy.
Hare Krsna,
marica
Yes indeed Marica Prabhu. That is exactly what the problem is with FOOLISH SG who is UNABLE to accept Srila Prabhupada’s presence as the Book Bhagavata that which is in accordance with the SASTRAS because the person Bhagavata Srila Prabhupada has left His Body.
So how a FOOLISH person who is in DENIAL can decide what s/he wants ?
Certainly, help is available provided one is ready to take it.
But in this case of SG, who is TOTALLY in DENIAL for the last many years continuously ignore such help and thus, wishes to destroy through his concocted duly interpreted ideas not only to himself but many others also who are innocent READERS being attracted to visit this web site for taking a shelter of HDG. Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions.
I am still hopeful that a good council shall prevail in this case of SG under discussion.
Hari BOL.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.