If you say “My master has fixed up this price; you cannot change it,” then you are honest salesman. And if you place yourself that “I am the master,” then you are cheater. The cheater cannot be teacher.” (Srila Prabhupada Darshan July 11 1976)
None of the prominent acaryas of the world were ever Zonal, nor were they voted in by mundane votes, as has been concocted and implemented within ISKCON since 1977. This is of utmost importance when considering the nature of the bona fide and authorized guru.
We can see from the very same darshan in 1976 that Srila Prabhupada stated that Christ came specifically with His message from the spiritual planets, therefore such a spiritual messenger is not cheap, and could never be considered in the league of the invented mundane voted-in guru or zonal guru.
We have become accustomed to the belief that because someone is an ISKCON voted-in guru, that he must automatically be always talking in disciplic succession and therefore be bona fide. However, any person who would accept that an acarya can be voted-in by mundane votes could never be talking from the disciplic succession, because such a heretical teaching goes against everything that Srila Prabhupada (the bona fide guru) has ever taught.
Even in the same darshan, Srila Prabhupada repeats as He has done so often, that a Guru is not cheap, and if you want to be cheated you will.
All of ISKCON’s acaryas who have accepted. their positions from the mundane vote are cheaters and we should not take instruction from, or even hear from them.
Our safest and most sublime path in this “age of the cheating guru” is to simply hear Srila Prabhupada from His books and lectures, and to only hear from His disciples who accept the foregone conclusion that a bona fide Guru cannot be manufactured from mundane votes and bogus popularity.
(Kurma Prabhu, May 30 2009, Australia)
Just want to point out that the picture with 5 horses is not correct. There should be 4 white horses not 5. Krsna and Arjuna with the chariot of 4 white horses:
730714BG.LON Lectures
Translation: “On the other side, both Lord Krsna and Arjuna, stationed on a great chariot drawn by white horses, sounded their transcendental conchshells.”
Prabhupada: SO YOU HAVE SEEN THE PICTURE. KRSNA IS DRIVING FOUR WHITE HORSES. (reads from purport:) “In contrast with the conchshell blown by Bhismadeva, the conchshells in the hands of Krsna and Arjuna are described as transcendental.” Krsna is transcendental. Narayanah paro ‘vyaktat. Krsna is not of this material world. Krsna’s body, Krsna’s activities, everything of Krsna, they are transcendental. They are not of this material world. Divyam. In the catuh-sloki Bhagavatam it is said when Krsna was instructing Brahma, aham evasam evagre: “Before this material creation, I was existing.” In the Vedas also, it is said, eko narayana asit. “Before creation, only Narayana was there.”
70-12-19.Sat Letter: Satsvarupa
You may inform Jadurani that the picture she has sent is alright with necessary adjustments. Krsna is of course to be pictured in the same dress in all the scenes of the Kuruksetra delivery of Bhagavad-gita because the episode took place all within about one half hour. Some ideas are: 1) Duryodhana and Dronacarya conferring in a tent just before the battle. 2) A RATHA WITH FOUR HORSES DRAWN BEFORE THE RANKS OF SOLDIERS AND AKSHOUHINI CARRYING KRSNA AND ARJUNA.
76-05-29.Bha Letter: Bhargava
Simply because there is no stock of books, we can do anything whimsically??? Is this logic? Gita is not spoken in Vrindaban, it is spoken on the battlefield of Kuruksetra, but this is Vrindaban picture. THAT CHARIOT DRIVE BY 4 HORSES, THAT IS THE REAL KURUKSETRA PICTURE. It is not that because there is no stock we can do whimsically as we like and lose the idea, that is rasa-bhasa. Because there is no bread, you take stone to eat? There is no stock of bread so you will take stone??? The front picture is most important thing and you have changed it. It must remain standard, and not change. Also, the lettering is not nice on the cover. You could have taken a color picture of Krishna and Arjuna and used it black and white (one color) on the front cover. Just as you did with the inside back cover of the Bhagavat darsana, the original picture of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was in color but you have printed it in black and white. You could have done this on the front cover with Krishna and Arjuna on the Battlefield of Kuruksetra, but the cover must not be changed.
Mahesh Raja Prabhu. You are absolutely right about there NOT beying 5 horses!
There are other things wrong with this picture……. Lord Krishna does not carry a whip. He holds the reigns in one hand and a conch shell in the other (as on the original Bhagavad Gita painting by Jadurani Devi Dasi). They (the horses) are not ‘whipped’ by the Lord (like some sort of Ben Hur scenario). They are not mundane horses but ‘pure devotees of the Lord’ who have taken these forms to serve Lord Krishna in His transcendental pastimes NOT mundane creatures to be flogged and beaten. And because they are pure devotees they are ‘intuitive’ and immediately react to fulfil the desire of the Lord as the chariot sweeps around the battlefield to vanquish the enemies of the Pandavas.
Also, they are not completely white…..One is the colour of a rain cloud, one has a bluish hue like ice another ashen (not sure about the 4th) etc. Their names are Balahaka, Sugriva, Saibya and Meghapushpa and they are all transcendental pure devotees of The Supreme Lord Krishna assisting Him in His trancendental eternal lila. I was once given the service of carving (life size) the 4 horses for the Chistchurch Rathayatra Chariot/Cart out of polyurethane foam and coated in fibreglass and in doing so was absorbed in meditation/and gained a great affection for these great personalities and personal associates of the Lord.
The painting depicted above although ‘incorrect’ in the depiction of The Lords pastime is very skilfully done in many ways and reveals very talented artistic skills. The cover of the “abridged, adulterated version” of the Gita also has Lord Krishna holding a whip, (although He does also hold a conch) and although this cover picture is also very skilful in it’s execution, the ORIGINAL cover version (by Jadurani Devi Dasi) is without a doubt the most correct and also the most beautiful because it was approved by His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja Prabhupada and for this reason CAN NEVER, EVER BE “IMPROVED UPON” OR REPLACED BY ANYTHING ELSE.
Just a few thoughts there……..
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
Note: Srila Prabhupada exposed these CONDITIONED soul bogus voted in “gurus” by gbc as JACKALS. So just as Jackals they want play “as good as God”(Diksa guru). Sent by God: “I AM SENT BY GOD TO RULE OVER YOU.” “OH?” SO THEY BEGAN TO WORSHIP HIM AS GOD, AS LEADER.
SO WE HAVE TO EXPOSE THEM. THEY ARE NOT LEADER; THEY ARE JACKALS. SO JACKALS CANNOT ANYMORE RULE OVER. THAT SHOULD BE OUR PROPAGANDA
730503mw.la Conversations
Prabhupada: No, it is Sanskrit. And in Bengal it is called vane asiya raja.(?) “In the forest a jackal has become king.” They are like that. Nila-varna-srigalavat.(?) When… There is big story about this jackal. I will tell you some. A jackal came in the village and he fell in the tub where, what is called, the water? No, no. The water man keeps the water for dipping, making
little bluish. For coloring. That blue, blue. So the washerman kept the dye water in a big tub, and the jackal fell in it. So jackal fell in it; he became blue, all blue. So he fled away, and all the animals said, “What is this animal? What is the animal? What is that animal? Oh?” All, even lion became surprised. “We have not seen this.” “So who are you, sir?” “I AM SENT BY GOD TO RULE OVER YOU.” “OH?” SO THEY BEGAN TO WORSHIP HIM AS GOD, AS LEADER. Then one day other jackals, they were crying, “Wa, wa,” but the jackals cannot stop. If others jackals cry, the jackal cannot stop. So he also began to “Wa, wa.” Oh, then, they, oh, this rascal is a jackal. Yavat kincin na bhasate. That these rascals are jackals. Now they are talking nonsense. We can detect that “Here is a jackal.” SO WE HAVE TO EXPOSE THEM. THEY ARE NOT LEADER; THEY ARE JACKALS. SO JACKALS CANNOT ANYMORE RULE OVER. THAT SHOULD BE OUR PROPAGANDA. NOT ONLY SCIENTIFIC, ALL POLITICAL THINGS, SOCIAL THINGS, EVERYTHING. THEY SHOULD BE ALL KICKED OUT. THEY SHOULD BE REPLACED BY KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS. THEN PEOPLE WILL BE HAPPY. THIS SHOULD BE OUR PROGRAM. Our, this propaganda means to make people happy. It is not a business, to make business and take some money. And so many jackals have been arrested and resigned in your… You know that? Many jackals have been obliged to resign their post in the government.
Note: These ANTI RITVIK MONEY SCREWING SLAVERY MAKING GOONS ARE ENVIOUS OF SRILA PRABHUPADA BECAUSE THEY WANT TO REPLACE HIM AS DIKSA GURU. By their MISCHIEVOUS acts they are going to hell to be trained in LOWER forms of life: ANIMALS, INSECTS, MEN, AND SO ON.
Bg 16.19 T The Divine And Demoniac Natures
tan aham dvisatah kruran
samsaresu naradhaman
ksipamy ajasram asubhan
asurisv eva yonisu
SYNONYMS
tan–those; aham–I; dvisatah–envious; kruran–mischievous; samsaresu–into the ocean of material existence; nara-adhaman–the lowest of mankind; ksipami–put; ajasram–innumerable; asubhan–inauspicious; asurisu–demoniac; eva–certainly; yonisu–in the wombs.
TRANSLATION
THOSE WHO ARE ENVIOUS AND MISCHIEVOUS, who are the lowest among men, are cast by Me into the ocean of material existence, into various demoniac species of life.
PURPORT
In this verse it is clearly indicated that the placing of a particular individual soul in a particular body is the prerogative of the supreme will. The demoniac person may not agree to accept the supremacy of the Lord, and it is a fact that he may act according to his own whims, but his next birth will depend upon the decision of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and not on himself. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, Third Canto, it is stated that an individual soul, after his death, is put into the womb of a mother where he gets a particular type of body under the supervision of superior power. THEREFORE IN THE MATERIAL EXISTENCE WE FIND SO MANY SPECIES OF LIFE–ANIMALS, INSECTS, MEN, AND SO ON. ALL ARE ARRANGED BY THE SUPERIOR POWER. THEY ARE NOT ACCIDENTAL. AS FOR THE DEMONIAC, IT IS CLEARLY SAID HERE THAT THEY ARE PERPETUALLY PUT INTO THE WOMBS OF DEMONS, AND THUS THEY CONTINUE TO BE ENVIOUS, THE LOWEST OF MANKIND. SUCH DEMONIAC SPECIES OF LIFE ARE HELD TO BE ALWAYS FULL OF LUST, ALWAYS VIOLENT AND HATEFUL AND ALWAYS UNCLEAN. THEY ARE JUST LIKE SO MANY BEASTS IN A JUNGLE.
Iso 12
These rogues are the most dangerous elements in human society. Because there is no religious government, they escape punishment by the law of the state. They cannot, however, escape the law of the Supreme, who has clearly declared in the Bhagavad-gita that ENVIOUS DEMONS IN THE GARB OF RELIGIOUS PROPAGANDISTS SHALL BE THROWN INTO THE DARKEST REGIONS OF HELL (Bg. 16.19-20). Sri Isopanisad confirms that these pseudo religionists are heading toward the most obnoxious place in the universe AFTER THE COMPLETION OF THEIR SPIRITUAL MASTER BUSINESS, which they conduct simply for sense gratification.
Sudarsana Das Vanacari:There are other things wrong with this picture……. Lord Krishna does not carry a whip. He holds the reigns in one hand and a conch shell in the other (as on the original Bhagavad Gita painting by Jadurani Devi Dasi). They (the horses) are not ‘whipped’ by the Lord (like some sort of Ben Hur scenario). They are not mundane horses but ‘pure devotees of the Lord’ who have taken these forms to serve Lord Krishna in His transcendental pastimes NOT mundane creatures to be flogged and beaten. And because they are pure devotees they are ‘intuitive’ and immediately react to fulfil the desire of the Lord as the chariot sweeps around the battlefield to vanquish the enemies of the Pandavas.
Mahesh: thank you very much for the above information. The following is a description of Krsna’s the four horses:
52 / Kṛṣṇa Kidnaps Rukmiṇī
After hearing Rukmiṇī’s statement, Lord Kṛṣṇa was very pleased. He immediately shook hands with the brāhmaṇa and said: “My dear brāhmaṇa, I am very glad to hear that Rukmiṇī is anxious to marry Me, since I am also anxious to get her hand. My mind is always absorbed in the thought of the daughter of Bhīṣmaka, and sometimes I cannot sleep at night because I am thinking of her. I can understand that the marriage of Rukmiṇī with Śiśupāla has been arranged by her elder brother in a spirit of animosity toward Me; so I am determined to give a good lesson to all of these princes. Just as fire is extracted and utilized after manipulating ordinary wood, similarly, after dealing with these demoniac princes, I shall bring forth Rukmiṇī, like fire, from their midst.”
Kṛṣṇa, upon being informed of the specific date of Rukmiṇī’s marriage, became anxious to leave immediately. He asked His driver, Dāruka, to harness the horses for His chariot and prepare to go to the kingdom of Vidarbha. The driver, just after hearing this order, brought Kṛṣṇa’s four special horses. The names and descriptions of these horses are mentioned in the Padma Purāṇa. The first one, Śaivya, was greenish; the second, Sugrīva, was grayish like ice; the third, Meghapuṣpa, was the color of a new cloud; and the last, Balāhaka, was of ashen color. When the horses were yoked and the chariot ready to go, Kṛṣṇa helped the brāhmaṇa up and gave him a seat by His side. Immediately they started from Dvārakā and within one night arrived at the province of Vidarbha. The kingdom of Dvārakā is situated in the western part of India, and Vidarbha is situated in the northern part. They are separated by a distance of not less than 1,000 miles, but the horses were so fast that they reached their destination, a town called Kuṇḍina, within one night, or at most, twelve hours.
Re: mundane votes
One staunch ISKCON gurus supporter claimed “mundane” did not apply to the “votes” of the GBC.
They are supposedly “supremely spiritual” , being appointed as ” ultimate authority” ?!
By “One staunch ISKCON gurus supporter”, are you refering here to Sachinandan “swami’s” loyal and devoted, constant, ‘female’ travelling companion or Prabhavishnu’s “devoted admirers” in Bankok’s red-light district?
Priya says:
23. December 2014 at 6:26 pm
Re: mundane votes
One staunch ISKCON gurus supporter claimed “mundane” did not apply to the “votes” of the GBC.
They are supposedly “supremely spiritual” , being appointed as ” ultimate authority” ?!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Mahesh: GBC is ultimate authority in MANAGEMENT OF THE INSTITUTION ONLY- Bas!
What they want to do is BLUFF others that they can vote in Diksa gurus. Their “guruship” franchise business is bogus!
They are CONDITIONED souls they are NOT Mahabhagavata. You can NOT replace Mahabhagavata because he does NOT fall down:
Madhya 22.71 The Process of Devotional Service
There is NO POSSIBILITY THAT A FIRST-CLASS DEVOTEE WILL FALL DOWN, even though he may mix with nondevotees to preach.
This point has been already covered:
Only Maha-Bhagavata is Diksa Guru
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=41422#more-41422
Note: the GBC has ZERO authority on appointment of Diksa Guru. GBC set-up is for the for SPECIFIC purpose: MANAGEMENT of the institution.
Facts:
Legal Documents : LD 6: Declaration of Will, June 1977 :
1. The Governing Body Commission (GBC) will be the ultimate managing authority of the entire International Society for Krishna Consciousness.
2) There is NO ORDER from Srila Prabhupada that he APPOINTED anyone as Diksa Guru:
WHEN I order
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/03-08/editorials2603.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Become Guru by Order, That’s All
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/04-10/editorials5990.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What We Have Heard from the Spiritual Master, That is Living
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/08-10/editorials6409.htm
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Srila Prabhupada’s Disciple
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-07/editorials2265.htm
3) Srila Prabhupada is the Diksa Guru:
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=41422#more-41422
Priya ; Where is the need of an ” appointment ” in the “supremely spiritual – ultimate authority” ?
Does this very word ” appointment ” not refer to a ” mundane authority ‘ ?
Ask these questions to the staunch ISKCON gurus supporter and post it here.
Hare Krishna. AGTSP.