Srila Prabhupada IS Diksa Guru
Note: MANIPULATIVE SLAVERY MAKING MONEY SCREWING Anti Ritviks make a cunning propaganda that they are Diksa Guru. Our point is WHERE is THAT ORDER from Srila Prabhupada that they have been NAMED as Diksa Guru AFTER 1977?
It was SPECIFICALLY IN 1977 Srila Prabhupada said “WHEN I order”. The word WHEN signifies FUTURE not PRESENT. What we ALL KNOW is that THIS order was NOT given. All Srila Prabhupada said was “WHEN”. This word “WHEN” does NOT translate to that he IS ordering NOW. “WHEN” means FUTURE. So – it NEVER happened.
ALL Srila Prabhupada did INSTEAD was gave them July 9th 1977 Ritvik Order – THAT IS ALL!!!!! Nothing more.
VERY Simple logic: IF there was an ORDER BEFORE 1977 WHAT was Satsvarupa asking Srila Prabhupada for:PARTICULARLY AT THAT TIME WHEN YOU’RE NO LONGER WITH US. WE WANT TO KNOW HOW FIRST AND SECOND INITIATION WOULD BE CONDUCTED.
770528me.vrn Conversations Satsvarupa: By the votes of the present GBC. THEN OUR NEXT QUESTION CONCERNS INITIATIONS IN THE FUTURE, PARTICULARLY AT THAT TIME WHEN YOU'RE NO LONGER WITH US. WE WANT TO KNOW HOW FIRST AND SECOND INITIATION WOULD BE CONDUCTED. Prabhupada: Yes. I shall recommend some of you. After this is settled up, I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating acaryas. Tamala Krsna: Is that called rtvik-acarya? Prabhupada: RTVIK, YES.
SB 3.15.24 P Description of the Kingdom of God
IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO GO BACK TO GODHEAD IN ONE LIFE, BUT IN THE HUMAN FORM ONE SHOULD AT LEAST UNDERSTAND THE GOAL OF LIFE AND BEGIN KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS.
Note: It is NOT possible to go back to Godhead in ONE LIFE this is WHY we chant Janme Janme Prabhu sei — this means Srila Prabhupada is there with us in OTHER LIVES AFTER to finish OUR Jail term in this material world. HOW can one be LIBERATED Maha Bhagavata to deliver OTHERS if he HIMSELF is NOT delivered IN ONE LIFE:
760805BG.PAR Lectures
Devotee: If we don’t finish our Krsna consciousness in this life, how we come in contact with the guru in next life?
Prabhupada: Yes, that arrangement will be done, you go on with your business. We are singing this song daily. Why do you forget? Cakhu-dan dilo jei JANME JANME PRABHU SEI. ONE WHO HAS OPENED THE EYES, HE’LL REMAIN MY MASTER LIFE AFTER LIFE.
Prabhupada: Yes, that arrangement will be done, you go on with your business. We are singing this song daily. Why do you forget? Cakhu-dan dilo jei JANME JANME PRABHU SEI. ONE WHO HAS OPENED THE EYES, HE’LL REMAIN MY MASTER LIFE AFTER LIFE.
740302mw.may Conversations
Bhavananda: spiritual master. Then when he reaches a certain point, he lets go. What is? What becomes of Him? He is also Mayavadi.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is Mayavadi philosophy. (break) philosophy, cakhudana dilo yei janme JANME PRABHU SEI. NAROTTAMA DASA THAKURA SINGS THAT, “ONE WHO HAS OPENED MY EYES, MY SPIRITUAL MASTER, HE’S MY FATHER, LIFE AFTER LIFE.” SO HOW HE CAN, HE CAN SAY, “GO AWAY NOW”? THAT IS MAYAVADA PHILOSOPHY.
Bhavananda: spiritual master. Then when he reaches a certain point, he lets go. What is? What becomes of Him? He is also Mayavadi.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is Mayavadi philosophy. (break) philosophy, cakhudana dilo yei janme JANME PRABHU SEI. NAROTTAMA DASA THAKURA SINGS THAT, “ONE WHO HAS OPENED MY EYES, MY SPIRITUAL MASTER, HE’S MY FATHER, LIFE AFTER LIFE.” SO HOW HE CAN, HE CAN SAY, “GO AWAY NOW”? THAT IS MAYAVADA PHILOSOPHY.
NoD 8 Offenses to Be Avoided
The offenses against the chanting of the holy name are as follows: (3) To disobey the orders of the spiritual master.
Madhya 24.330 The Sixty-One Explanations of the Atmarama Verse
MAHA-BHAGAVATA-srestho
brahmano vai gurur nrnam
sarvesam eva lokanam
asau pujyo yatha harihmaha-kula-prasuto ‘pi
sarva-yajnesu DIKSITAH
sahasra-sakhadhyayi ca
na guruh syad avaisnavah((The guru MUST be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service. There are three classes of devotees, and the guru MUST be accepted from the topmost class. The first-class devotee is the spiritual master for all kinds of people. …When one has attained the topmost position of MAHA-BHAGAVATA, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshiped exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. Only such a person is eligible to occupy the post of a guru.))
Note: The word DIKSITAH refers to Diksa and ONLY Maha Bhagavata is the one mentioned WHO give this BY DEFINITION.
Note: what we KNOW is that they were NOT Maha-Bhagavata but CONDITIONED SOULS that is EVEN ADMITTED by Tamal Krsna so they can NOT give Diksa – FACT! this was in 1977 not before. In ADDITION Srila Prabhupada says, “I SHALL SAY, “NOW YOU BECOME ACARYA. YOU BECOME AUTHORIZED”. What we KNOW for a FACT is Srila Prabhupada DID NOT SAY THAT THEY WERE ACARYA.
INSTEAD he gave the Ritvik Order – BAS! That was ALL. COMMON SENSE: HOW can Srila Prabhupada give them Order to be Diksa guru KNOWING for a FACT that they ARE CONDITIONED SOULS. This is WHY we KNOW that they BETRAYED Srila Prabhupada. There is absolutely NO DOUBT that they BETRAYED Srila Prabhupada:
INSTEAD he gave the Ritvik Order – BAS! That was ALL. COMMON SENSE: HOW can Srila Prabhupada give them Order to be Diksa guru KNOWING for a FACT that they ARE CONDITIONED SOULS. This is WHY we KNOW that they BETRAYED Srila Prabhupada. There is absolutely NO DOUBT that they BETRAYED Srila Prabhupada:
770422r3.bom Conversations Prabhupada: What is the use of producing some rascal guru? Tamala Krsna: Well, I have studied myself and all of your disciples, and it's clear fact that WE ARE ALL CONDITIONED SOULS, SO WE CANNOT BE GURU. Maybe one day it may be possible... Prabhupada: Hm. Tamala Krsna: ...but not now. Prabhupada: Yes. I shall choose some guru. I SHALL SAY, "NOW YOU BECOME ACARYA. YOU BECOME AUTHORIZED." I am waiting for that. You become all acarya. I retire completely. But the training must be complete.
another spiritual master after you?
750522mw.mel
Devotee 7: Prabhupada, when you leave this material world, will there be another spiritual master after you? Another pure soul?
Prabhupada: THEN THAT SPIRITUAL MASTER IS KRSNA HIMSELF. There is no need of education. Everyone is free. Everyone is full knowledge. There is no need of spiritual master.
From the year 1966 to 1977, Srila Prabhupada did NOT give ANY order to anyone SPECIFICALLY, “YOU become guru,” so HOW can you say that they are diksa Guru?
*****IF Srila Prabhupada would have ordered BEFORE 1977, then there would be no point in 1977 of him stating in 1977 WHEN I order. It was SPECIFICALLY in the year 1977 that Srila Prabhupada said “WHEN I order” NOT before, so AFTER the year 1977, WHERE is the evidence of THAT order?******
Prabhupada:”WHEN I order, “You become guru,” he becomes regular guru. That’s all. He becomes disciple of my disciple. That’s it.”
(Srila Prabhupada Conversation, May 28, 1977, Vrindavan)
“Self-made guru cannot be guru. HE MUST BE AUTHORIZED BY THE BONA FIDE GURU. Then he’s guru. This is the fact. Similarly, bona fide guru means he must be authorized by the superior guru.”
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture on Nectar of Devotion, October 31. 1972)
“One should take initiation from a bona fide spiritual master coming in the disciplic succession, who is AUTHORIZED BY HIS PREDECESSOR SPIRITUAL MASTER. This is called diksa-vidhana.”
(Srimad Bhagavatam 4.8.54, purport)
Prabhupada: “Try to understand. Don’t go very speedily. A GURU CAN BECOME GURU WHEN HE’S ORDERED BY HIS GURU. That’s all. Otherwise nobody can become guru.
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture on Bhagavad-gita 7.2, Nairobi, October 28, 1975)
Facts:
1) the Order was NOT given. This is WHY Srila Prabhupada says WHEN I order:
1) the Order was NOT given. This is WHY Srila Prabhupada says WHEN I order:
Mahesh Raja: Only Maha-Bhagavata is Diksa Guru
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=41422#more-41422
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WHEN I order
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/03-08/editorials2603.htm
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Become Guru by Order, That’s All
Become Guru by Order, That’s All
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/04-10/editorials5990.htm
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What We Have Heard from the Spiritual Master, That is Living
What We Have Heard from the Spiritual Master, That is Living
http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/08-10/editorials6409.htm
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Srila Prabhupada’s Disciple
Srila Prabhupada’s Disciple
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-07/editorials2265.htm
2) to be a Mahabhagavata is NOT so cheap.
3)ONLY the PROMINENT Acarya is a ACCEPTED: Srila Prabhupada is PROMINENT ACARYA he IS Diksa Guru.
a) Srila Prabhupada’s books are QUOTED by ALL and WILL be QUOTED by ALL in future — so he is PROMINENT
b) Srila Prabhupada is worshiped as Jagad Guru in ALL his temples and ALL over the world — this will continue — so he is PROMINENT.
68-04-12. Letter: Dayananda
Regarding parampara system: THERE IS NOTHING TO WONDER FOR BIG GAPS. Just like we belong to the Brahma Sampradaya, so we accept it from Krishna to Brahma, Brahma to Narada, Narada to Vyasadeva, Vyasadeva to Madhva, and between Vyasadeva and Madhva there is a big gap. But it is sometimes said that Vyasadeva is still living, and Madhva was fortunate enough to meet him directly. In a similar way, we find in the Bhagavad-gita that the Gita was taught to the sungod, some millions of years ago, but Krishna has mentioned only three names in this parampara system–namely, Vivasvan, Manu, and Iksvaku; and so these gaps do not hamper from understanding the parampara system. WE HAVE TO PICK UP THE PROMINENT ACARYA, AND FOLLOW FROM HIM. There are many branches also from the parampara system, and it is not possible to record all the branches and sub-branches in the disciplic succession. We have to pick up from the authority of the acharya in whatever sampradaya we belong to.
75-08-04. Letter: Madhudvisa:
The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I AM IN THE INITIATOR GURU, and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This I want.
“I AM THE SPIRITUAL MASTER OF THIS INSTITUTION, AND ALL THE MEMBERS OF THE SOCIETY, THEY’RE SUPPOSED TO BE MY DISCIPLES. They follow the rules and regulations which I ask them to follow, AND THEY ARE INITIATED BY ME SPIRITUALLY.”(Srila Prabhupada Radio Interview, 12/3/1968)
“Guru-mukha-padma-vakya, cittete koriya aikya, ara na koriho mane asa. Don’t think of any nonsense. Simply execute what your guru has said. That is success.”
(28th January, 1977, Room Conversation)
Hare Krishna AGTSP, PAMHO.
As my spiritual master is an acarya then I am an acarya also. I ONLY HAVE TO BE AUTHORIZED!
In this room conversation with GK swami, Srila Prabhupada emphatically states that he only ordered for Siksa-guru. This totally refutes the bogus rubber stamped guroo clan, who claim the amara ajnaya verse as their authority to manufacture diksa-gurus. Thanks to Krsnakant prabhu for posting this from Vedabase in latest BTP.
Room Conversation
May 30, 1976, Honolulu
760530R1-HONOLULU
Gopala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, I am just trying to clarify—I don’t want to offend anyone—but no disciple of yours should call himself diksa-guru or siksa-guru. Am I right?
Prabhupada: Well, everyone is engaged to become siksa-guru, but one should become perfect. The attempt is—what is called?—probationer. When probationer period is finished, then he is naturally, automatically, bona fide guru. Not in the probationer period. That is immature attempt. That will failure. Amara ajnaya [Cc. Madhya 7.128], Caitanya Mahaprabhu said: “By My order.” So all my disciples are expected to become siksa-guru on my order, not by his own order. That is meaning I am giving sannyasa, I am sending you to different places, so this means that you have to carry out the order of the guru very strictly; then you become mature. Otherwise it will be artificial attempt, and that kind of guru will not help.
On the morning of Wednesday, August 8th 1934, Sriyukta Rajendranath Pal Chaudhuri Mahasaya, the famous zamindar of Louhajang, came to Sri Gaudiya Matha accompanied by one of his employees. Offering his humble dandavats at the lotus feet of Sri Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Prabhupada, he expressed his desire to hear some words on Sri Guru-tattva and the secret of diksa etc. Srila Prabhupada obligingly gave a valuable discourse for two hours.
Here Srila Bhaktisiddhanta clearly states the madhyama-adhikari can ONLY perform the ‘initial duties of diksa’ ie ritvik ceremonial function!
Rajen Babu: Isn’t the kanistha-adhikari qualified to give initiation into the mantra?
Srila Sarasvati Prabhupada: Where is the kanishtha-adhikari coming from? Who gave him the adhikara? A kanishtha-adhikari can never become a guru.
Rajen Babu: Can a madhyama-adhikari give diksa?
Prabhupada: He can only perform the initial duties of diksa. It is the uttama-adhikari maha-bhagavata Vaisnava who is actually the diksa-guru. There are two types of Vaisnavas – the ragatmika and the raganuga. Those who are from the eternal realm offer service to Sri Krsna directly. These ragatmikas serve Sri Varshabhanavi and Her direct expansions. Those who perform direct service to the ragatmikas and take shelter in them through the performance of smarana are raganugas. These are spiritual gurus.
Yhs,
Balaram das.
Hare Krsna.
Mahesh Raja Prabhu’s writing is perfect.
Why are not the bogus gurus’s disciples thinking about these things ? There are so many notices.
“These great souls ( members of the disciplic succession ) were not mere luminaries like comets appearing in the firmament for a while and disappearing as soon as their mission is done. They are like so many suns shining all along to give light and heat to succeeding generations.LONG TIME YET to roll on when they will be succeeded by others of sublime mind, beauty and calibre.” ( Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura )
What was/is Srila Prabhupada’s desire is Lord Krishna’s desire. All members of ISKCON are Srila Prabhupada’s disciples. Is this not what Srila Prabhupada ordered? Where does it say otherwise?
These bogus “rubber stamp gurus” are STEALING Uttama Adhikari’s disciples OUT OF EXTREME ENVY and requesting from their ”brain-washed disciples” ”Just see I am giving you so much mercy, now you must repay me eternally. I am helping you! so you must eternally thank me for stealing you away from His Divine Grace” In this way the “cheated unorthorized disciple” is constantly poisoned by his/her bogus guru and attacks anyone who asks them…..”Was this authorized by Srila Prabhupada?”…… So confronted with this the “disciple” asks his bogus guru, who poisons him/her even further and on and on and on and on it goes!
Only Srila Prabhupada can give Diksha because he is Uttama Adhikari Paramahamsa Acharya. This is why he NEVER APPOINTED anyone as guru. The result or accepting unorthorized bogus self appointed ‘guru’ is ZERO because unorthorized ”bogus guru” CANNOT give diksha!
Many thanks to Mahesh Raja Prabhu who has given so many sastric references on this topic. Only Mahabhagavat can deliver the pure message to purify the heart otherwise the result is ZERO.
Daso Smi
Sudarsana
Balaram das says:
10. March 2015 at 11:35 pm
On the morning of Wednesday, August 8th 1934, Sriyukta Rajendranath Pal Chaudhuri Mahasaya,………………
Prabhu, what and where is the source of the recorded conversation you posted in your comments ?
Thank you. Hare Krishna.
Dear Amar Puri Prabhu,
While searching ‘diksa’, I came across the reference link to “Sri Guru Tattva and the secret of Diksa.. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati”. It can be found at http://gosai.com/writings/sri-guru-tattva-and-the-secret-of-diksa-part-3.
I have simply posted a short excerpt as I have read from this website, so I do not have any further reference. This Math is in line with GM and has nice articles from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati recorded conversations. I have no other way of confirming the authenticity of these, but also have no reason to doubt, as Srila Bhaktisiddhanta’s explanation is confirming how we understand our Srila Prabhupada’s instructions regarding Diksa-guru MUST be uttama-adhikari.
Hope this helps somewhat.
Yhs,
Balaram das.
Hare Krishna.
Yes, Srila Prabhupada is ONLY Diksha Guru in ISKCON. Nice compilation.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada
Dear Balaram das Prabhu,
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Thank you for sharing the link. http://gosai.com/writings/sri-guru-tattva-and-the-secret-of-diksa-part-3
After reading from the link of the web site, it comes in to my mind, the present Guru of that Math does not follow the same Instructions what it has been written and posted on the link.
What kind of a duplicity is this ?
Dear Amar Puri Prabhu,
Yes I agree 1000%, it is not only FISKCON that deviates for their own motives, however IMHO the principle of picking up ‘gold’ (Srila Bhaktisiddhanta nectar) from a dirty place works nicely here.
Yhs,
Balaram das.
Yes, CONTENTS of Gold is always Gold despite of any amount of IMPURITY added to it.
The IMPURITY can not be hidden, no matter how one may try ones hardest to hide it.
That is the nature of the PURITY of the Gold contents.
Only an expert person can distinguish its contents and pick it up for its best utilization which has worked very nicely for its purpose.
Thank you again for sharing it, Balaram das Prabhu.
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.