On September 6, 2017, Nityananda das received an email reply to questions he had put to Cyavana Swami, an very early Srila Prabhupada disciple who manages a preaching and gardening facility in Williston, Florida called Camp Garuda. The reply was:
“Yes, I have stated this many times….. some understand it, but most don’t and it usually causes some to become agitated. Most devotees never really understood who Srila Prabhupada is. The initiation means to begin on the path of Bhakti, each one must figure out how to take that first step. Srila Prabhupada made it perfectly clear to me that we are not his only disciples. His instruction was,”I have given you everything, don’t change anything… I will have millions of disciples.” These are the most important instructions Srila Prabhupada ever gave us for the future of his Movement.
“In my discussions with Prabhupada the subject of adding to and changing the books and philosophy came up frequently, but the question of what to do regarding initiations after he was no longer with us was very difficult to ask, it was almost unthinkable at the time that he would not always be with us. Myself and Brahmananda Swami were in Srila Prabhupada’s room one morning in Nairobi, Kenya in 1975, at first he seemed surprised at the question, as if he had already made it very clear.
We were performing initiations his behalf all over the world for some years, so he said to simply continue as he had been training us, “on my behalf ” was not just for then, it is for always. His answer was clear and simple.
“I am encouraged, especially over the past few years, by the many devotees who are clearly understanding this and Srila Prabhupada’s unique and exalted position in our Sampradaya. If someone wants to add to or change a book they can do so in their own name, and of course we must have “instructor gurus” and teachers to guide disciples on the path, but only Srila Prabhupada will fulfill the promise to take us all home, that is certain. I share this with you as a friend. As far as the general population devotees, let them think whatever they want, at least they have a start, many here including me are inspired by your work.”
RECAP:
(1). “I have given you everything, don’t change anything… I will have millions of disciples.”
(2). “We were performing initiations on his behalf all over the world for some years, so he said to simply continue as he had been training us, “on my behalf ” was not just for then, it is for always.”
Satyahit das confirmed that Cyavana Swami has been consistently stating these memories for many years.
(1) “I have given you everything, don’t change anything… I will have millions of disciples.”
(2) “We were performing initiations on his behalf all over the world for some years, so he said to simply continue as he had been training us, “on my behalf ” was not just for then, it is for always.”
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Similarly, in Room Conversation — July 18, 1971, Detroit:
Mohsin Hassan: After you, is it any decision has been made who will take over?
Prabhupāda: Yes. All of them will take over. These students, who are initiated from me, all of them will act as I am doing. Just like I have got many Godbrothers, they are all acting. Similarly, all these disciples which I am making, initiating, they are being trained to become future spiritual masters.
To some this may seem as a contradiction, but Srila Prabhupada never made any contradictions in his statements.
If supposing that in the Room Conversation Srila Prabhupada spoke about becoming diksa gurus, then “all these disciples” should have included “woman, merchant and worker disciples” also. Just another example to prove he does not speak about becoming diksa gurus.
The only valid explanation is that Srila Prabhupada is not talking about diksa gurus, but about gurus who were trained and will act in the future as Srila Prabhupada’s assistants, and they will all make millions of disciples for Srila Prabhupada.
Srila Prabhupada was training all his disciples to become his assistants, not initiating gurus.
Hare Krsna. All glories to Srila Prabhupada
Hare Krsna prabhu,
Yes they try to support the FISKCON MASS guroo program by Lord Caitanya’s ‘amara ajnaya guru haya tara ei desa’ verse.
However Srila Prabhupada states..”Because people are in darkness, we require many millions of gurus to enlighten them. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s mission is, He said, that, “Every one of you become guru. Amara ajnaya guru haya tara ei desa.
(Srila Prabhupada Lecture, 21/5/1976)”
This can only refer to siksa (instructing) gurus, or additional preacher gurus who assist the diksa guru. This is evidenced by the fact that such instructions are given in conjunction with Lord Caitanya’s instruction to “become guru” from Caitanya-caritamtra, Madhya-lila 7:128, as above (amara ajnaya guru). The purports to this verse states:
“one should stay at home […] it is best not to accept any disciples.”
(Sri Caitanya caritamtra,Madhya-lila 7:128-30, purports)
Srila Prabhupada again states the same point in his Bhaktivedanta Purport SB 4,7,44…
“…Lord Caitanya advocated a process whereby everyone may remain in his present position without change, but simply hear from the proper authoritative sources about Krsna. He advised ‘All of you become spiritual masters. Your duty is simply to talk to whomever you meet of Krsna or the instructions given by Krsna’. The International Society for Krsna Consciousness is operating for this purpose:”
Obviously vartma-pradasak or siksa-guru at best, because if this instruction refers to diksa-gurus, it would mean that EVERYONE who has taken initiation could immediately become a diksa-guru in the presence of their own diksa-guru… ludicrous, but that’s how the cheaters have schemed/scammed it!!!
Yfs,
Balaram das.
Thank you Balaram prabhu,
This is so much convincing that Srila Prabhupada’s instructions do not refer to diksa-guru.
I would also mention another famous instruction frequently quoted by the cheaters to support their agenda:
“Every student is expected to become Acarya. Acarya means one who knows the scriptural injunctions and follows them practically in life, and teaches them to his disciples. …Keep trained up very rigidly and then you are bona fide Guru, and you can accept disciples on the same principle. But as a matter of etiquette it is the custom that during the lifetime of your Spiritual Master you bring the prospective disciples to him, and in his absence or disappearance you can accept disciples without any limitation. This is the law of disciplic succession. I want to see my disciples become bona fide Spiritual Master and spread Krishna consciousness very widely, that will make me and Krishna very happy.” (Letter to Tusta Krsna, 2 Dec. 1975)
Interestingly, and even without going into much detail of this instruction, all the main words like ‘Acarya’, ‘Guru’ and ‘Spiritual Master’ are singular and capitalized, specifically in the sentence, “I want to see my disciples become bona fide Spiritual Master…” So, even in this letter Srila Prabhupada wrote nothing like, “I want to see my disciples become bona fide spiritual masters,” and not even mentioned, “initiating spiritual masters.” Again, this instruction should also refer to vartma-pradasak or siksa-guru.
Srila Prabhupada wanted to see all his disciples become bona fide Spiritual Master – that all his disciples should become one Spiritual Master and spread Krishna consciousness very widely. This would make Srila Prabhupada and Krishna happy.
It is really ludicrous how the cheaters make the schemes to continue with their false ‘living guru’ scam, to send all the blind followers down to hell, along with them.
Hare Krsna. All glories to Srila Prabhupada
Initiations exist in all religions and in all countries.
Sri Ramanujacarya made people initiated into Sri-Sampradaya by the panca-samskara: tapa, pundra, nama, mantra, and yaga.
Lord Jesus Christ made people initiated into Christianity by the seven-sacraments: baptism, penance, the eucharist, confirmation, anointing of the sick, holy orders and matrimony.
It is explained that when a faithful person learns about being a devotee of the Lord, he approaches a religious teacher and humbly requests him for initiation, or diksa.
After considering the student’s sincerity, the teacher mercifully gives tapa and pundra (tilaka marks) to the student in order to sanctify his body. Or, in Christianity, the priest or any faithful person (only in emergency situations) may give baptism. According to the teachings of the Church, baptism is the sacrament by which we first enter (initiate) a restored relationship with God.
It is allowed that the remaining sacraments can be administered by different persons than the one who gave the first initiation – both in Sri-Sampradaya and in Christianity. The first initiator is not necessarily the one who teaches the student for the rest of his or her life, neither is he considered the principal teacher or diksa-guru.
Even Srila Prabhupada during his physical presence authorized the priests to give nama and mantra to new students without his physical presence, although in the third samskara the teacher is the one who utters the name of the Lord into the ear of the faithful student.
Thus the process of initiation does not depend on the physical presence of the teacher. Lord Jesus Christ, Sri Ramanujacarya and Srila Prabhupada can perform initiations even they are not physically present, through their representatives, or priests.
Samskara is necessary for the conditioned soul, but it is not necessary for liberated persons. Without samskara the life of the conditioned soul remains impure. But even if a person has attained liberation on account of previous samskara, still in his present life he again receives samskara in order to set a proper example for the good of all.
Hare Krsna. All glories to Srila Prabhupada
Hare Krsna. All glories to Srila Prabhupada
Please allow me to share the story about guru of Sri Ramanujacarya from one article written by Smt Vyjayanthi Sundararajan (Tamil Brahmin). It is entitled, “Mahapurna the true guru of Srimad Ramanuja.” (Source: anudinam org)
It should be understood that Sri Ramanujacarya had many gurus, but three of them were the most important: Yadava Prakasa, Periya Nambhi (Mahapoorna) and Alavandar (Yamunacarya).
From this story the relationship between guru and disciple in Vedic society becomes very interesting. I hope many good points can be derived from hearing about the life of Sri Ramanujacarya.
However, Srila Prabhupada being the founder-acarya and diksa-guru of ISKCON, as he himself proclaimed officially, should be understood in that way, and not try to manipulate his unique personality as per one own whims or so-called traditional or conventional wisdom.
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Preface: Some members in this site give repeated misrepresentations regarding Srimad Ramanuja’s small-time Advaita guru Yadava Prakasa, as if he “moulded” Srimad Ramanuja. Srimad Ramanuja only stayed for a short time (that too, with misunderstandings) with Yadava Prakasa, and then left him, and pursued further studies with Mahapurna, who gave him insight into lot of Vaishnava works and pointed him to other gurus too. Thus Srimad Ramanuja had many gurus who taught him many different things. Here let us learn a little more about Mahapurna, the true guru of Srimad Ramanuja, belonging to 4th varna.
Periya Nambhi took avatharam at Srirangam in the Tamil year Hevilambhi (998AD) in the month of Margazhi under the constellation Jyesta (Kettai) Margazhi Kettai. He was an amsam of Kumudhakshara a Nityasuri. He was known as Mahapoorna, Paranakusadasar and Purnacharyar. He was the shishya of Alavandar and the acharya of Ramanujacharya. He was full of atmagunas and played a major role in the establishing SriVaishnavam on a firm footing. It was to Him that Alavandar who was about to shed his mortal coils entrusted the mission of bringing Ramanuja to SriRangam. Periya Nambi left atonce and found Ramanuja at the Salai Kinaru getting water for Varadaraja Perumal’s Tirumanjanam. Periya Nambi started reciting the “Stotra Ratna” of His guru Alavandar. Hearing the exquisite verses Ramanujacharya stood transfixed. He prostrated Periya Nambi and expressed his desire to know about the creator of these verses. Periya Nambi revealed that Alavandar His guru was the composer and he had come to summon Ramanuja to SriRangam at the behest of His acharya. Ramanujacharya immediately accompanied Him but could only have darshan of Alavandar’s charama tirumeni (mortal remains).
Ramanuja left for Kanchipuram without having darshan of Ranganatha. It was again Periya Nambi who was asked by the shishyas of Alavandar to bring Ramanuja to SriRangam and anoint him as Alavandar’s successor. Periya Nambi and His wife proceeded to Kanchipuram from SriRangam. Meanwhile Varadaraja Perumal instructed Ramanujacharya through Tirukachi Nambi to take Mahapoorna as his acharya. Wasting no time Ramanujacharya started for SriRangam. It so happened that Periya Nambi met Ramanujacharya at Madhurantakam. It was the Tamil month of Avani, a Sukla Panchami day. Ramanujacharya asked Periya Nambi to do samashrayanam for him, he wanted it done immediately. Ramanujacharya wanted no delay as he did not want to postpone this important samskaram. So it was that Periya Nambi did Panchasamskaram to Ramanujacharya under a Vakula (Magizha) tree. We can still worship the Shankhu Chakra emblems that adorned none other than Ramanujacharya here. Maduranthakam has thus acquired the fame as The Tirupathi that nurtured the Dwayam. Dwayam is known as Mantra Ratnam, Vishnu Puranam as Purana Ratnam and Alavandar’s stotram as Stotra Ratnam. In Madurantakam we can see Ramanuja as a grihastha along with his acharya. This holiest of holy days is commemorated every Avani Shukla Panchami and one should make a sankalpam to be part of the divine ceremony which is enacted every year reminding us about the greatness of samashrayanam.
Having performed samashrayanam Periya Nambi and His devigal proceeded to Kanchipuram to Ramanuja’s Tirumaligai (residence) to impart rahasyarthams to Ramanuja .Unfortunately a tiff aroused between Rakshambal (Ramanuja’s devigal) and Periya Nambu’s devigal. Periya Nambi was saddened and left for SriRangam without informing Ramanuja. This was one of the three incidents which was responsible for Ramanuja taking sanyasam.
Ramanuja moved to SriRangam as Alavandar’s successor. Though Periya Nambi was Ramanuja’s acharya, He venerated Ramanuja and even prostrated before Ramanuja. When asked the reason He said He saw His acharya Alavandar in Ramanuja. Even for mundane problems He looked upto Ramanuja. When His daughter Atthuzhai came to her father with her domestic problems He directed her to Ramanuja.
There was a disciple of Alavandar named Maraneri Nambi who belonged to the lower caste. When Maraneri Nambi shed his mortal coils it was Periya Nambi who performed his antima samskaras(funeral rites). Outraged by this act the local Srivaishnavas boycotted Him and took up the matter with Ramanuja. When questioned by Ramanuja He replied that His act was in accordance with the Tiruvullam of Azhwars and He was definitely not superior to SriRamachandra who performed the last rites for Jatayu.
The ultimate service He did to SriVaishnavam was the mission He undertook with Kurathazhwan to the court of Kirmikanta Chozan. Kirmikanta Chozhan summoned Ramanuja to his court to sign a letter that said Shiva was the Ultimate. Kurathazhwan on knowing this exchanged his white clothes for Ramanuja’s saffron robes and set forth for the king’s court in the company of Periya Nambi. When the duo refused to acknowledge their eyes were ordered to be gorged out. Periya Nambi was at the ripe old age of 105 at that time. Unable to bear the torture He shed His mortal coils in Chozha territory itself. When His daughter told Him that SriRangam was not far away and they should reach there Periya Nambi made a very important fact that is to be noted by all Prappanas.: The place where a Srivaishnava lives always thinking of Perumal becomes Sri Vaikuntam itself. Shedding one’s mortal coils in a Divya Desam is not essential for a Prappanan. Inorder to reveal this Truth Periya Nambi attained Paramapadham at Pasupathikoil itself. Let us remember this Mahaan who practiced what Ramanuja preached and chant Swami Desikan’s tribute in Yathiraja Sapthathi:
Daya nignam Yatheendrasya Desikam Poornam AshrayeYena Vishvasruja Vishnor Apooryatha Manoratha