KEY PORTIONS FROM POISON DISCUSSIONS NOV. 1977

CHAPTER 12:
THE POISON DISCUSSIONS TRANSCRIPT

SECTION ONE: MAHARAJA HAS CALLED FOR ME
NOVEMBER 9, 1977.

Kaviraja (Damodara Shastri): (Hindi) Ye apki darshan ke liye Balaramji Misra. Aap jante hai inko? Chaitanya Mahabrabhu ke…(Here is Balarama Misra come to see you. Do you know him? (He) is from Chaitanya…)

Balarama Misra: (Beng) Aami edike aachi Maharaja. Aami Balarama Misra, chinte perechen to aamake? (I am over here Maharaja. I am Balarama Misra, do you recognise me?)

SP:Han. (Yes.)

Balarama Misra: (Beng) Kaviraj’er shonge aamar onek purono aalap aache. Taa, kalke aamar shonge dakhai holo. Bole …Maharaja aamaye dekecchen? Aamar to boro shoubhagya to..mane eyi shutre aamaro dakhaa hoye jabe. Keno bohudin purbe jokhon thakur bosheni takhun….. (I am known to kaviraja for a long time. Well, yesterday I met him (kaviraja), he said, Maharaja (SP) has called for me. It is a great honor for me…that is..this way I get a chance to meet you. Because many days ago, when the deity had not been installed…)

SP:oi ta ke?..se aldah?(unclear) (Where are they (deities?..are they there?)

Balarama Misra: Han. Aache. Aache Maharaja. Ami bhaablaam jadi ektu dakhaa kore aashi aamio…. (Yes. They are there. They are there Maharaja. I thought, if I could come and see you…)

SP:Hothat hoye galo. (It all happened suddenly.)

Balarama Misra: Hain. (Yes.)
SP: Besh kaaj cholche? (Is work going on well?)
Balarama Misra: Hain. (Yes.)

SECTION TWO: SOMEONE SAYS I HAVE BEEN POISONED

SP: (Unintelligible)……unknown whispers.
SP: (Beng) Ka bole je poison korechhe……hote pare.
   (Someone says that I have been poisoned… it’s possible.)
Balarama Misra: Hmm?
Kaviraja: (Hindi) Kya farmarahe hai? (What are you saying?)
SP: (Hindi) Koi bolta hai je, koi poison deya hai.
  (Someone says that, somebody has given me poison.)
Kaviraja: Kisko? (To whom?)
SP: Mujhko. (To me.) 

SECTION THREE:“ALL THESE FRIENDS” SAID IT

Kaviraja: Kaun bolta hai? (Who is saying?)
SP: Ye saab friends. (All these friends.)
Bhakticharu: (Beng) Ke boleche Srila Prabhupada? (Who said, Srila Prabhupada?)
SP: Ke boleche. (They all say.)
TKG: Krishna das?
(Unknown whispers)…(blowing conch).
Kaviraja: (Hindi) Aapko kaun poison dega? kisleye dega?
(Who will give you poison? For what, why?)

TKG: Who said that, Srila Prabhupada?
SP: I do not know, but it is said…

SP: (Beng) Aapni to… jotish janen? (You do know astrology?)
Kaviraja: (Hindi) Kya bolte hain? (What’s (he) saying?) 

SECTION FOUR: SOMEBODY GAVE YOU POISON?

Skip ahead in conversations:

Kaviraja: (Hindi) Yeh Maharaja, yeh kotha aap kaise bola aaj ki koi bola hi ki poison diya hai? Ye aapko kuuch abhaas hua hai, kya?

  (This thing Maharaja. You know how you said today that someone said somebody gave you poison? Did you get some indication or feeling about this, or what?)

SP: Nahin. Eyse koi bola jo denese ye hota hai. …Shayed koi kithabme likkha hai.

  (No. Someone said that, when given poison, this happens… Maybe it’s written in some book.)

Kaviraja: Woh koi khana se ho jata hai. Kaccha mercury se ho jata hai. Ye aur koi bhi cheez aisa hai jis se ho jata hai. Mane aapke liye kaun karega? Ham to yeh samajhta… ki aise devpurush ke liye koi manshik aisa bichar karega woh be rakshasa hai. (break)

  (That happens from some foods. Raw mercury makes it happen. And there are other things with which it can happen. I mean, who would do that to you? My understanding is that anyone who thinks about doing this to a saint, is a demon (rakshasa).)

SECTION FIVE: PRABHUPADA HAD POISONING SYMPTOMS

Skip ahead in conversations:

TKG: Srila Prabhupada? You said before that you… that it is said that you were poisoned?

SP: No, these kind of symptoms are seen when a man is poisoned. He said like that, not that I am poisoned.

TKG: Did anyone tell you that, or you just know it from before?

SP: I read something.

TKG: Ah, I see. That’s why actually we cannot allow anyone to cook for you.

SP: That’s good.

TKG: Jayapataka Maharaja was telling that one acharya, Sankaracharya, of the Sankaracharya line – this is a while ago – he was poisoned to death. Since that time, none of the acharyas or the gurus of the Sankaracharya line will ever take any food cooked except by their own men.

SP: My Guru Maharaja also.

TKG: Oh. You, of course, have been so merciful that sometimes you would take prasada cooked by so many different people.

SP: That should be stopped.

SECTION SIX: “MENTAL DISTRESS”
NOVEMBER 10, 1977.

Skip ahead in conversations:
Devotee: Ghabrahati to kam hi na? (The distress is less now?)
Kaviraja: Kuchh bechani to kam hai na? (The uneasiness is less isn’t it?)
Bhakticharu: It’s less now, this restlessness and the pain.
Skip ahead in conversations:
Bhavananda: So what was the cause of that distress?
Bhakticharu: Kaise woh kai hua tha subha?  (What happened this morning?)

Note: The kaviraja found Prabhupada’s body now functioning properly according to pathological tests; His heart rate, pulse and blood pressure surprisingly returned to normal. Discussions next focus on the reasons for Srila Prabhupada’s “mental distress.”

Skip ahead in conversations:

TKG: (in the background) But what did Prabhupada just say?

Kaviraja: (speaking over Bhakticharu) Jaise subhe position tha, subhe inka position tha na taklif hui na? ham das purya dene se jaise heart eise good position…ki ek purya se heart aisa…kya bolega bataiye ? kya mahatwa lagayenge?   (How the position was this morning …the position was; there were problems, wasn’t there ?

Had I given ten doses his heart would not have been in the position it is. Now with one dose his heart is…What can I say tell me? What definition can (I) attach (to this).)

Bhakticharu: (English) He said, ‘How can you define it? How can you explain it?

TKG: (in the background) But what did Prabhupada just say?

Bhakticharu: Like the condition couldn’t have improved by ten medicines also, but one medicine it becomes perfect.

TKG: What did Prabhupada just say?

Bhakticharu: Prabhupada just said that I mean, this morning his condition was bad not now.

Bhavananda: Prabhupada was complaining of mental distress this morning also.

SECTION SEVEN: SOMEONE GAVE HIM POISON HERE

Bhakticharu: Srila Prabhupada?
SP: Hmm?
Bhakticharu (Beng): Ota ki byapaar hoyechelo? mental distress?
  (What is that problem? Mental distress?)
SP: Hmmmmm. Hmmmmm.
Kaviraja: (Hindi) Boliye, boliye. (Say, say.)
SP: (Hindi): Vahi bat jo koi hamko poison kya.
  (That same thing – that someone has poisoned me.)
Bhakticharu: O aacha, uno soch na ki koi……
  (Oh, okay, he thinks that someone….)
Kaviraja (speaking over Bhakticharu): Dekhiye bat yehi hai ki kisi rakshas ne diya ho…

Bhakticharu: Someone gave him poison here.

Kaviraj: Caru Swami…
Bhakticharu: Yes.

Kaviraj: … kisi rakshas ne diya ho. Yeh to ho sakta hai. Impossible nehi hain. Woh Sankaracharya the; unhe kisi ne poison diya. Cheh mahina tak woh bari taklif paye. Kanch to hota hai na ? botal ke kanch, yeh pees ke khane mein khila diya. To usko kya nitaja hua; bara mahina baad mai, leprosy ho gaya sab sharir ki undar. To karam to apna bhugte hai. Kintu jo medicine ham dai raka hai; jadi koi uska effect hoga poison to rahe nahin sakta, guarenteed bolta hai. Ki woh be effected hoga to rahin nahi sakta. Ki abhi to ham pakar nahin saktai usko unko diya hua hai. Abhi bhi pakarta hai jab kidney kharab ho gaya, kisi kahena ya bimari se ho, chai grahan se ho, chai poison se.

  (Listen, this is the understanding that some demon (may) have given (poison) …Caru swami (Bhakticharu says, “yes”) ..some demon has given (poison). This can happen. It’s not impossible. There’s that Sankaracharya (person), someone gave him poison. For six months he suffered. There is glass you know? Bottle glass? It was ground and fed in food. What befell him; after twelve months leprosy spread inside his body. Everyone suffers their karma. But the medicine I have given, if any (poisonous) effect occurs; it cannot stay. I give a guarantee, that even if there are effects, they will not stay. Because right now I cannot detect (poison) has been given to him. It is detected when the kidneys go bad, or by some symptom of disease, by (effects) of the eclipse(?), or by poison.)

TKG: Prabhupada was thinking that someone had poisoned him?

Bhakticharu (not Adhridharan): Yes.
TKG: That was the mental distress?
Bhakticharu: Yes.

Kaviraja: Yeh bolte hai to isme kuch na kuch satya he. Isme koi sandeha nahin.   (This is what (he) says, then there must be some truth in it. In this there is no doubt.)

TKG: What did Kaviraja just say?

Bhakticharu: He said that when Srila Prabhupada was saying that, there must be something truth behind it.

TKG: Tsheeesssh!

(Everyone begins speaking together)

Kaviraja: Koi rakshas hai…daina wallah..Pan me ek cheez de doon. Kya batun…doodh me de doon. Khana ek pan me dwai de doon, subhe me jindagi be bhool sakhoge.

  (It’s some rakshasa …the poisoner …will put something in pan. What to say…(or) something in milk. To eat, (he) will put a medicine in pan, by the morning (your) whole life can be forgotten.)

SECTION EIGHT: THERE MUST BE SOME TRUTH TO IT

TKG: Srila Prabhupada, Shastriji says that there must be some truth to it if  you say that. So who is it that has poisoned?

Note:

(pause of 13 seconds of dead silence): Srila Prabhupada never answers this question.

SECTION NINE: WHICH POISON WAS USED?

Kaviraja: Sabse bada poison to hota hai woh mercury ka hota hai.

  (The biggest (worst) poison is mercury.)

Bhakticharu: Woh to Gaya tha woh jo….. (That was Gaya, that which….)

Kaviraja: Nahin nahin….woh to Svarupa Guha tha. Aap para tha na swamiji?…..Kalkatte me? (No, no. That was Svarupa Guha. You read about it didn’t you, Swamiji? In Calcutta?)

SP: Hmm.
Kaviraja: Svarupa Guha?

Bhakticharu: Unko malum nahin. (…he doesn’t know (about it.)

Kaviraja: Uska pati ne diya tha. Uski koi medicine nahin aatha aap ki leya. Itni dose de diya. jisko hamlok Rashkapoor bolte hain. (Her husband had given it. For it there is no medicine or antidote. Such a heavy dose
was given. It’s what we call Rashkapoor.)

Bhakticharu: Nahin. Woh jo mercury isme tha….woh makharadwaja.

  (No. That mercury was in… the makharadwaja.)

Kaviraja: Nahin, nahin. Woh mercury nahin hain. Uska doosra nam bolte hai.

  (No, no. That’s not mercury. It’s called by another name.)

Bhakticharu: Aacha. (Okay.)
Bhavananda: What did he say?
Bhakticharu: He said that it’s quite possible that mercury, it’s a kind of poison…

TKG: (not BHAGATJI): That makharadwaja…
Bhakticharu: Rashkapoor?

Kaviraja:….Aamer Rash. woh ekta preparation aache….. Eta very poison.

  (Aamer Rash. That’s one preparation…It’s very poisonous.)

Bhakticharu: Woh to makharadwaja jaise hai kya? (Is that like makharadwaja?)

Kaviraja: Makharadwaja to amrit hota hai, inke liye nahin suitable hota hai, yeh bat doosri. Baki woh to sab ki liye poison hota.

  (Makharadwaja is nectar, although not suitable for him (SP), that’s a different story. But that (Raskapoor) is poison for everybody.)

Bhavananda: What medicine was he taking before that?
Bhakticharu: Konsa…? (What….?)
Kaviraja: Kuuch nahin. (Nothing.)

Bhakticharu: He was referring to a case, a big murder case in Calcutta, the husband poisoned the wife.

Bhavananda: Guha.
Kaviraja: Svarupa Guha…abhi uska case….. (Svarupa Guha …the case is now…)

Bhakticharu: Shankara Bannerjee was…
Bhavananda: Our lawyer is the…(sniggers/snickers). 

SECTION TEN: USELESS CHATTER, NOTHING DONE

TKG: Bhagatji doesn’t think the….

Kaviraja (Hindi): Manye inka sharir aisa hai, jeh bajra hai ki acchar…woh kuuch nahin hona.  (In my mind, his (SP) body is such that it is like a thunderbolt. You can beat it a thousand times, but nothing will happen.)

Bhakticharu:Nain ghabrana ka jo…. Bhagvan jise raksa karte hai, waise to Prahlad Maharaja ke bhi to…   (No need for bewilderment …The way God protects his own, similarly Prahlad Maharaja was also…)

Kaviraja:Swamiji, ek sloka yaad aata hai …(sloka) …Aapto siddhanta Maharaja to, isliye koi shankhya karneka darkar nahin hain. (Swamiji, one verse comes to my mind… ‘Without protection, one remains fixed if protected by fate, whereas one who protects himself but is condemned by fate is destroyed. Without a protector, one person can live carelessly alone in the forest, whereas another takes all precautions in his home, and still dies.’ …you are a divine soul, that is why there is no need to be anxious.)

TKG:No poison is strong enough to stop the Hari Nam, Srila Prabhupada.

Kaviraja: (Hindi) Bas. Hari Nam ke samne…woh Mira ko jitna poison diya tha; ek boond parjanese aadmi ka death ho jate. Woh sub pegeya woh, batlayie? Jo Bhagvan ke prasad lag jate na, woh poison amrit ho jata, samajhte. (Right. Before the Holy Name… How much poison was given to Mira, a single drop was enough to kill a man. Mira drank it all. Poison when offered to the Lord becomes nectar.)

Devotee: Prahlad Maharaja.
Bhakticharu: Prahlad Maharaja.

Kaviraja:Prahlad se jada poison diya tha Halahal isko Mira ..Itna jabardast banaya who …Jaise ek alopath me ek poison aata ka uska taste aaj tak koi
bataa nahin sakaa.

  (Halal gave Mira a stronger dose of poison than Prahlad got. It was so strongly made …Like there is one poison in allopathy, even till today nobody can tell the…)

TKG: Would you like some more kirtan Srila Prabhupada? Lokanatha can lead. Lokanatha, you lead.

SP: (indistinct)
TKG: Lokanatha.