All my disciples are expected to become śikṣā-guru on my order, not by his own order.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I am just trying to clarify—I don’t want to offend anyone—but no disciple of yours should call himself dīkṣā-guru or śikṣā-guru. Am I right?
Prabhupāda: Well, everyone is engaged to become śikṣā-guru, but one should become perfect. The attempt is—what is called?—probationer. When probationer period is finished, then he is naturally, automatically, bona fide guru. Not in the probationer period. That is immature attempt. That will failure. Āmāra ājñāya [Cc. Madhya 7.128], Caitanya Mahāprabhu said = “By My order.” So all my disciples are expected to become śikṣā-guru on my order, not by his own order. (Srila Prabhupada Room Conversation, May 30 1976, Honolulu, Hawaii)
——–
Isk’Con Show-Bottle-Gurus | Conditioned-Soul-Gurus
by Urdhvaga das (ACBSP)
Of course Srila Prabhupada wanted his disciples to succeed him as guru. Definitely he wanted it, but, but, but, and here lies the big problem, he wanted qualified disciples, he wanted qualified gurus, not some show-bottle gurus, imitator gurus, self-appointed gurus, zonal-acarya gurus, woman-hater gurus, woman-lover gurus, homo-sex-gurus, harassing gurus, ex-communicating gurus, children-abusing gurus, murder-gurus, poison gurus, guru-killer gurus, disco gurus, cow-seller gurus, marijuana gurus, LSD gurus, gopi gurus, reformed gurus, no-mangala-arotik gurus, no-japa gurus, bunglow-sannyasi gurus, retreat gurus, Monika-varnasrama gurus, 3-regulative principles gurus, demon-crazy gurus, movie-mall-menaka gurus, 2/3 hand voted-in gurus, current-link gurus, etc, etc, etc.
Srila Prabhupada said: “First become qualified”. We have nothing against any Iskcon gurus, but they first should acquire some qualification and not imitate.
Of course, a father likes to see his son to follow him. Of course a high-court judge likes to see his son to succeed him, but first the son has to qualify himself, otherwise he can not take the position of the father. If he tries without qualification to imitate the father, that means cheating, impostor, bogus.
Srila Prabhupada: “I am practically seeing that as soon as they, our students, begin to learn a little Sanskrit, they immediately feel they have become more than their guru. Then the policy is to kill their guru and become guru themselves”. “As soon as he learns that Guru Maharaj is dead, now I am so advanced I can kill guru and become guru. Then he is finished.” (Srila Prabhupada 1976).
We should not be fooled by all those 2/3 hand voted in, self-appointed bogus Isk’Con gurus, who like ordinary conditioned souls, are falling down after some time, and who are preaching bogus philosophy such as the “current link philosophy” in support of “voted in successor acaryas” with a “less then liberated guru thesis” and a “minimum qualification theory” for adapting their “homosexual pedophile guru lineage” of conditioned souls into the pure guru-parampara, excluding Srila Prabhupada as a non physical link. This “current link philosophy” is chaos, who is the guru, Prabhupada? His vani? It? Our movement? It is heartbreaking to see how new disciples in Iskcon are forced to worship their “present day living survivor gurus” (who fall down after some time), being denied direct access to and through Srila Prabhupada. Iskcon devotees are forced to see their so called “current living links” on the same platform as Srila Prabhupada, infallible equal in all respect, with the same worship. Prabhupada is secondary because he is not a living guru???
The problem with Sankarsana das adhikary (and others) is that he rather likes to imitate self-appointed bogus Iskcon gurus (conditioned souls who fall down after some time) then to take shelter unto Srila Prabhupada. His problem is worshiping and imitating false gurus?
We should not deceive ourselves into thinking that Iskcons conditioned souls are infallible gurus. We rather should take shelter with Srila Prabhupada, who is the perfect guru for all. He will never disappoint us. Srila Prabhupada is still available for anyone who is sincere in his heart, but if Prabhupad is substituted for ordinary souls posing as absolute gurus, then one certainly will be deceived.
GURU CHEATING NOT EFFECTIVE (April 22.77). Prabhupada: People complained against [a GBC for trying to appear as a guru]. …You become guru, but you must be QUALIFIED FIRST of all. THEN you become. …What is the use of producing some RASCAL GURU?
Tamala Krishna: Well, I have studied myself and all of your disciples, and it’s clear fact that we are ALL CONDITIONED SOULS, so we CANNOT BE gurus. MAYBE someday it may be possible….
Prabhupada: Hm. [agrees]
Tamala Krishna: …but not now.
Prabhupada: Yes. I shall produce some gurus. I shall say who is guru, ‘No you become acharya. You become authorized.’ I retire completely. But the training must be COMPLETE.
Tamala Krishna: The process of purification must be there. …No rubber stamp.
Prabhupada: You can cheat, but it will not be effective. Just see our Gaudiya Matha. Everyone wanted to be guru. A small temple and “guru.” What kind of guru?
Srila Prabhupada: We haven’t got to manufacture. To manufacture ideas is troublesome. Why should we take the trouble? And as soon as you want to manufacture something to my…., that is DANGEROUS. …That you are singing every day, “what our guru has said, that is our life and soul.” …As soon as this POISON will come -suppress guru and I become Brahman- everything FINISHED. Spiritual life is finished. Gaudiya Matha finished, …VIOLATED the orders of Guru Maharaja.
…And as soon as you manufacture, fall down. This manufacturing idea is very, very dangerous in spiritual life. …Our mission is to serve bhakta visesa and live with devotees. NOT THAT YOU TAKE THE PLACE OF GURU. THAT IS NONSENSE, VERY DANGEROUS. Then everything will be spoiled. As soon as you become AMBITIOUS to TAKE THE PLACE of GURU-gurusuh nara matih. That is MATERIAL DISEASE.
Srila Prabhupada: “I am the Spiritual Master of this institution, and ALL the members of the Society, they’re supposed to be MY disciples. They follow the rules and regulations which I ask them to follow, and they are INITIATED BY ME spiritually” – (Srila Prabhupada Radio Interview, 12 March 1968, San Francisco)
Srila Prabhupada: “I wish that each and every branch shall keep their separate identity and cooperate keeping the acharya in the center. On this principle we can open any number of branches all over the world. The Rama Krishna mission works on this principle and thus as an organization they have done wonderfully.” (letter 11th Feb. 1967)
“All of my disciples will take the legacy. If you want, you can also take it. Sacrifice everything. I–one–may soon pass away. But they are hundreds, and this movement will increase. It’s not that I’ll give an order: “Here is the next leader.” Anyone who follows the previous leadership is a leader… All of my disciples are leaders, as much as they follow purely. If you want to follow, you can also lead. But you don’t want to follow. Leader means one who is a first class disciple. Evam param parapraptam. One who follows is perfect.” (SP BTG Vol. 13, No. 1-2)
Very interesting.
At least among all of the Prabhupadanugas around the world there is no one that I know of who is being openly prepared to become an officially voted in pure devotee like they do in ISKCON. In ISKCON there is no discussion regarding how gurus become gurus, they just do it and move on. So why are we still so obsessed with the guru issue after 42 years? Is that the only topic we have that any of us finds interesting or valuable about the Hare Krsna movement in the 21st century? If someone wants to be cheated by a bogus guru they will find one…somewhere. If someone wants to find a bona fide pure devotee that is qualified just like Srila Prabhupada describes they will find one. They will find one while using their intelligence automatically rejecting a bogus guru by reading Srila Prabhupada’s first printing books not by reading miles of uninterrupted regurgitated ISKCON history. Has this topic not yet been understood by us or are we just fiddling while delaying the inevitable? Which is if we really care about getting this above message across and have it understood then we have to attract new people into this philosophy in order to let them learn before any effort warn them has any value. And what is the best way to attract new people? ( if you are interested of course ) On the street first printing book distribution, Hare Nam sankirtan, prasadam distribution and regular weekly study classes of Srila Prabhupada’s books. All of the answers are in his books yet to this day we have not produced one teacher or teachers who are front line well known famous servants who are literally out there getting the job done. If we did then we would hear from them and they would be teaching in public and on line all over the world. Our struggles have long been just our struggles. The time has long since passed to continue to deflect our inadequacies as devotees behind the weakening shield of the old guru issue. Time to give up on ISKCON and take on Srila Prabhupada as wanting desperate disciples and followers eager to jump into the fire!
Time to step up and let the world in or go back to the easy path of simple desk top cutting and pasting of occasional quotations and use them for very tactical religious and political purposes.
Hasti Gopala dasa
PS As we write these guru issue articles are we writing them for ISKCON to notice or are we writing them to be noticed?
Hasti Gopal Prabhu:
” And what is the best way to attract new people? ( if you are interested of course ) On the street first printing book distribution, Hare Nam Sankirtana, prasadam distribution and regular weekly study classes of Srila Prabhupada’s books. All of the answers are in his books yet to this day we have not produced one teacher or teachers who are front line well known famous servants who are literally out there getting the job done.”
I do not personally believe that the processes and activities that you mention are “the best way to attract new people!’ as this requires lateral thinking. Otherwise why did Srila Prabhupada say that devotees should “rack their brains” to find ways of spreading Krishna Consciousness (or words to that effect, couldn’t find the exact quote!). Why did Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur produce magnificent diorama displays (which are reported to have quote: “created a sensation!”). We cannot just duplicate what Srila Prabhupada created because he employed “stealth!” He quietly prepared his books as his main mission (his secret weapon!) but was not so much interested in temples (and similarly, neither were previous Acharyas Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur Prabhupada and Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur). The demons have infiltrated (or created) every large organization, religious, “cultural”, “educational”, “political and judicial to assist with their parasitical Satanic hegemony of this planet (ISKCON included!). These personalities (all members of Satanic Freemason Secret Societies) are pathological liars, war mongers, sexual deviants, mass murderers and psychopaths. So with specific reference to religions! as soon as they understood that Srila Prabhupada was a threat to their Satanic parasitical hegemony of the planet they sought to poison him, install their own “agents”, usurp his position, change his books and render ISKCON impotent, lack-luster, and ”vassals of their mainstream apparatus” whittling away bit by bit, day by day, year by year, everything that Srila Prabhupada has created, so that it is ALWAYS UNDER THEIR CONTROL (as with all of the world “religions” and all controlled by Crypto Jews…..name me one that isn’t?).
Much opposition from the demons was experienced by Srila Prabhupada’s movement, (as it was not under their control!) as soon as the demons found out what was Srila Prabhupada’s plan, BUT ALL THE DOORS WERE OPENED WIDE AFTER ISKCON WAS ‘TAKEN OVER’ AND UNDER THEIR CONTROL…..political access, UN access, government programs (including “educational”), government grants, access to joint committees, shared government charity, food distribution, health programs and on and on and on it goes….. Srila Prabhupada WAS AGAINST ALL OF THESE THINGS FOR ISKCON!
So this is what we are up against, this is why devotees should purchase large tracts of land and get out of the cities which are getting more demonic by the day. This is what the Amish do so they are not dependent from this demonic city (and suburban) “culture”. They have Nama Hatta type of communal worship (and individual land ownership), no government affiliation, no government “education” interference……..these cities will be finished very soon. If you try to create this city-type temple structure IT WILL JUST BECOME INFILTRATED AGAIN! WHAT’S THE POINT OF THAT?
Hare Nama, book distribution etc etc must go on but there are many other ways of doing this, and this requires lateral thinking.
Hasti Gopala dasa says:
” If we did then we would hear from them and they would be teaching in public and on line all over the world. ”
Are we not hearing from the Prabhupadanuga followers just like Hasti Gopala dasa himself on this this web site sharing and preaching Srila Prabhupada’s teaching to the visitors who visit this site from all over the world ?
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Yes. I shall produce some gurus. I shall say who is guru, ‘No you become acharya. You become authorized.’ I retire completely. But the training must be COMPLETE.
Tamala Krishna: The process of purification must be there. …No rubber stamp.
Prabhupada: You can cheat, but it will not be effective. Just see our Gaudiya Matha. Everyone wanted to be guru. A small temple and “guru.” What kind of guru?
These Rubber stamped present goroos ( GK, TK , JP. Rodnah and all others ) of all size, shape and style, did just that what they were told NOT TO DO.
So it becomes imperative for the Followers / Devotees of Srila Prabhupada to present these guru issue as forecasted WARNING by HDG. Srila Prabhupada to the future generation of followers of the Iskcon as to how HDG. Srila Prabhupada instructed not only to his disciples as a warning but particularly to the new comers also to see and follow through Srila Prabhupada’s Instruction in the future.
Therefore, only a sincerely souls come in contact to visit this site. That’s why it is never enough to expose guru issue article to all the people in the world wide Iskcon of Srila Prabhupada.
That’s the sole intent and purpose.
OM TAT SAT.
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Note: Anti Ritvik means: HE IS A DEMON
740704BG.HON Lectures
Prabhupada: Then so siksa and diksa-guru… A siksa-guru who instructs against the instruction of spiritual, he is not a siksa guru. HE IS A DEMON. Siksa-guru, diksa-guru means… Sometimes a diksa-guru is not present always. Therefore one can take learning, instruction, from an advanced devotee. That is called the siksa-guru. Siksa-guru does not mean he is speaking something against the teachings of the diksa-guru. He is not a siksa-guru. He is a rascal.
Note: Replacing Srila Prabhupada is NOT so simple. Srila Prabhupada’s books,Temples,mp3’s,tapes,cd’s video’s make him as the PROMINENT ACARYA:
WE HAVE TO PICK UP THE PROMINENT ACARYA, AND FOLLOW FROM HIM.
68-04-12. Letter: Dayananda
Regarding parampara system: there is nothing to wonder for big gaps. Just like we belong to the Brahma Sampradaya, so we accept it from Krishna to Brahma, Brahma to Narada, Narada to Vyasadeva, Vyasadeva to Madhva, and between Vyasadeva and Madhva there is a big gap. But it is sometimes said that Vyasadeva is still living, and Madhva was fortunate enough to meet him directly. In a similar way, we find in the Bhagavad-gita that the Gita was taught to the sungod, some millions of years ago, but Krishna has mentioned only three names in this parampara system–namely, Vivasvan, Manu, and Iksvaku; and so these gaps do not hamper from understanding the parampara system. WE HAVE TO PICK UP THE PROMINENT ACARYA, AND FOLLOW FROM HIM. There are many branches also from the parampara system, and it is not possible to record all the branches and sub-branches in the disciplic succession. We have to pick up from the authority of the acharya in whatever sampradaya we belong to.
Note: DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION OF ACARYAS.
SB 3.29.17 P Explanation of Devotional Service by Lord Kapila
In Bhagavad-gita, Thirteenth Chapter, it is clearly stated that one should execute devotional service and advance on the path of spiritual knowledge by accepting the acarya. Acaryopasanam: one should worship an acarya, a spiritual master who knows things as they are. THE SPIRITUAL MASTER MUST BE IN THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION FROM KRSNA. THE PREDECESSORS OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER ARE HIS SPIRITUAL MASTER, HIS GRAND SPIRITUAL MASTER, HIS GREAT-GRAND SPIRITUAL MASTER AND SO ON, WHO FORM THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION OF ACARYAS.
I am compiling a vast list of recipients to receive the Prabhupada News site as well as the attending
Bhagavad-gītā Reading and Study Room link. I will be making myself available as a teacher for those I contact. I will be needing assistance of course so I will rely on regular communication through this site. You may contact me through my e mail should you have it or leave a neutral message at the Bhagavad Gita Study and Reading Room. Please feel free to write your understandings and realizations of the Gita for new students to read, consider and become informed. Remember new students will be reading our posts so we must be mindful to just focus on the Gita philosophy and the Guide.
https://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=50257
It’s a rigged system.
Once you accept the philosophical mindset and book changes of the BBT, the governance of the GBC and ISKCON as a whole then there is no possibility to come up with solutions to anything. All material, metaphysical, mental and spiritual solutions are out of reach and incomplete at best. So if we are to break free of this powerful negative influence we must rely completely on the original first printing books of Srila Prabhupada and more. We must learn how to empower others as Srila Prabhupada empowered us. That is the key. We must have complete faith by involving ourselves so much more in the solution’s to all of our problems by the information that he has given us. We have been diverted far to long in the search for the problems while ignoring Srila Prabhupada’s solutions.