SRILA PRABHUPADA LIVING STILL IN SOUND!
He reasons ill who tells that Vaishnavas die
When thou are living still in sound.
The Vaishnavas die to live
and living try to
Spread a holy life around!
LIVING STILL IN SOUND!
750716pc.sf Conversations
Reporter (2): What will happen to the movement in the United States when you die?
Prabhupada: I WILL NEVER DIE.
Devotees: Jaya! Hari bol! (laughter)
Prabhupada: I SHALL LIVE FOR MY BOOKS, AND YOU WILL UTILIZE.
Reporter (2): Are you training a successor?
Prabhupada: Yes, my Guru Maharaja is there. Where is my photo of Guru Maharaja? I think… Here is.
Prabhupada: Although according to material vision His Divine Grace Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura Prabhupada passed away from this material world on the last day of December, 1936, I still consider His Divine Grace to be always present with me by his vani, his words. There are two ways of association–by vani and by vapu. Vani means words, and vapu means physical presence. PHYSICAL PRESENCE IS SOMETIMES APPRECIABLE AND SOMETIMES NOT, BUT VANI CONTINUES TO EXIST ETERNALLY. THEREFORE WE MUST TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE VANI, NOT THE PHYSICAL PRESENCE. Bhagavad-gita, for example, is the vani of Lord Krsna. Although Krsna was personally present five thousand years ago and is no longer physically present from the materialistic point of view, Bhagavad-gita continues.
Indian Lady: … is that spiritual master still guiding after death?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, yes. Just like Krsna is guiding us, similarly spiritual master will guide us. (General lectures, 69/09/23)
Devotee: Srila Prabhupada when you’re not present with us , how is it possible to receive instructions? For example in questions that may arise…
SRILA PRABHUPADA: Well the questions are answ… answers are there in my books. (Morning Walk, Los Angeles, 13/5/73) So utilise whatever time you find to make a thorough study of my books. Then all your questions will be answered. (Letter to Upendra, 7/1/76)
Every one of you must regularly read our books at least twice, in the morning and evening, and automatically all questions will be answered. ( Letter to Randhira, 24/01/70)
If I depart there is no cause for lamentation. I will always be with you through my books and orders. I will always remain with you in that way. (BTG 13:1-2, December 1977)
74-11-22 Letter: Bahurupa In my books the philosophy of Krishna Consciousness is EXPLAINED FULLY so if there is anything which you do not understand, then you simply have to read again and again. By reading daily THE KNOWLEDGE WILL BE REVEALED TO YOU AND BY THIS PROCESS YOUR SPIRITUAL LIFE WILL DEVELOP.
Note: This clearly indicates that Srila Prabhupada’s books are understood through their own potency, and that there is therefore no need for a physically present guru to understand the books. Our Srimad Bhagavatam is unique because the verses of the Bhagavatam are directly complemented with the purports of Srila Prabhupada, who is the bonafide maha-bhagavata ; therefore, the book Bhagavata and the person Bhagavata are combined in Srila Prabhupada’s Srimad Bhagavatam. Therefore, there is no need for a third party, “the so called current Iskcon links” to (mis)interpret what Srila Prabhupada “really means to say”.
73-11-25. Letter: Cidananda I should be returning to Los Angeles the last week of November and I should be more than happy to see you there. Please always try to remember me by my teachings and we shall always be together. Just like I have written in the first publications of Srimad-Bhagavatam, “THE SPIRITUAL MASTER LIVES FOREVER BY HIS DIVINE INSTRUCTION AND THE DISCIPLE LIVES WITH HIM.”, because I have always served my Guru Maharaja and followed His teachings I am now even never separated from Him. Sometimes Maya may come and try to interfere but we must not falter, we must always follow the chalked out path layed down by the great acharya’s and in the end you will see.
770517ar.vrn Conversations Prabhupada: So I cannot speak. I am feeling very weak. I was to go to other places like Chandigarh program, but I cancelled the program because the condition of my health is very deteriorating. So I preferred to come to Vrndavana. If death takes place, let it take here. So there is nothing to be said new. Whatever I have to speak, I have spoken in my books. Now you try to understand it and continue your endeavor. Whether I am present or not present, it doesn’t matter. As Krsna is living eternally, similarly, living being also lives eternally. But KIRTIR YASYA SA JIVATI: “ONE WHO HAS DONE SERVICE TO THE LORD LIVES FOREVER.” So you have been taught to serve Krsna, and with Krsna we’ll live eternally. Our life is eternal. Na hanyate hanyamane sarire. A temporary disappearance of this body, it doesn’t matter. Body is meant for disappearance. Tatha dehantara-praptih. So live forever by serving Krsna. Thank you very much.
70-06-22 Letter: Hamsaduta WE ARE NOT SEPARATED ACTUALLY. There are two–vani or vapu. So vapu is physical presence and vani is presence by the vibration, but they are all the same. So Krsna when He was physically present before Arjuna is the same when He is present before us by His vani of Bhagavad-gita. So far I am concerned, I do not factually feel any separation from my Spiritual Master because I am trying to serve Him according to His desire. That should be the motto. IF YOU KINDLY TRY TO FULFILL MY MISSION FOR WHICH YOU HAVE BEEN SENT THERE, THAT WILL BE OUR CONSTANT ASSOCIATION.
75-11-04 Letter: Suci You have rightly said that the best way to associate with the spiritual master is to follow his instructions. There are two ways of associating, by vani and by vapu. Vani means words and vapu means physical presence. PHYSICAL PRESENCE IS SOMETIMES APPRECIABLE AND SOMETIMES NOT. THEREFORE WE SHOULD TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE VANI, NOT THE PHYSICAL PRESENCE, BECAUSE THE VANI CONTINUES TO EXIST ETERNALLY. Bhagavad-gita for example is the vani of Lord Krishna. Although Krishna was personally present 5,000 years ago and is no longer present physically from the materialistic viewpoint, still Bhagavad-gita continues. So you have correctly concluded.
690113LE.LA Lectures …vani and vapu, and vapu means the physical body, and vani means the vibration. So we are not concerned about the physical body. Not concerned means… We are concerned, of course, because the spiritual master, those who are acaryas, their body is not considered as materiel. Arcye sila-dhir gurusu nara-matir. Just like the statue of Krsna, to consider that “This is a stone…” Similarly, arcye sila-dhir gurusu na… Gurusu means those who are acaryas, to accept their body as ordinary man’s body, this is denied in the sastras. SO ALTHOUGH A PHYSICAL BODY IS NOT PRESENT, THE VIBRATION SHOULD BE ACCEPTED AS THE PRESENCE OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER, VIBRATION. WHAT WE HAVE HEARD FROM THE SPIRITUAL MASTER, THAT IS LIVING.
Adi 1.35 The service of the spiritual master is essential. If there is no chance to serve the spiritual master directly, a devotee should serve him by remembering his instructions. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SPIRITUAL MASTER’S INSTRUCTIONS AND THE SPIRITUAL MASTER HIMSELF. In his absence, therefore, his words of direction should be the pride of the disciple.
77-03-12 Letter: Rajarsi PERSONAL SERVICE TO THE SPIRITUAL MASTER MEANS TO FOLLOW HIS INSTRUCTIONS. My request is the same for everyone: that they follow strictly the regulative principles and chant at least sixteen rounds daily. And as much time as they are able should be devoted for preaching according to our books. DIKSA THE PROCESS of revealation thru Prabhupada’s books.
74-11-22 Letter: Bahurupa In my books the philosophy of Krishna Consciousness is EXPLAINED FULLY so if there is anything which you do not understand, then you simply have to read again and again. By reading daily THE KNOWLEDGE WILL BE REVEALED TO YOU AND BY THIS PROCESS YOUR SPIRITUAL LIFE WILL DEVELOP. Note: Our Srimad Bhagavatam is unique because the verses of the Bhagavatam are directly complemented with the purports of Srila Prabhupada, who is the bonafide maha-bhagavata ; therefore, the book Bhagavata and the person Bhagavata are combined in Srila Prabhupada’s Srimad Bhagavatam. Therefore, there is no need for a third party, “the so called current Iskcon links” to (mis)interpret what Srila Prabhupada really means to say.
Madhya 15.108 “DIKSA IS THE PROCESS BY WHICH ONE CAN AWAKEN HIS TRANSCENDENTAL KNOWLEDGE and vanquish all reactions caused by sinful activity. A person expert in the study of the revealed scriptures knows this process as diksa.” The potency of Prabhupada’s books —PENETRATE THE HEART—AND INJECT KNOWLEDGE TRANSCENDENTAL –(DIKSA)
SB 1.7.22 The spiritual master, BY HIS WORDS, CAN PENETRATE INTO THE HEART of the suffering person and INJECT KNOWLEDGE TRANSCENDENTAL, which alone can extinguish the fire of material existence.
75-03-14 Letter: Sivani To take SHELTER of the Spiritual Master MEANS TO FOLLOW HIS INSTRUCTIONS.
SB 3.31.48 .”one has to associate with liberated persons NOT DIRECTLY, PHYSICALLY, BUT BY UNDERSTANDING, THROUGH PHILOSOPHY AND LOGIC, THE PROBLEMS OF LIFE.
SB 4.31.2 One desiring perfection or liberation SHOULD ASSOCIATE WITH A PERSON WHO IS ALREADY LIBERATED. THIS IS CALLED SADHU-SANGA, ASSOCIATING WITH A PERFECT DEVOTEE.
EK 4 There are two conceptions of presence–the physical conception and the vibrational conception. The physical conception is temporary, whereas the vibrational conception is eternal. When we enjoy or relish the vibration of Krsna’s teachings in Bhagavad-gita, or when we chant Hare Krsna, we should know that by those vibrations He is immediately present. He is absolute, and because of this His vibration is just as important as His physical presence. WHEN WE FEEL SEPARATION FROM KRSNA OR THE SPIRITUAL MASTER, WE SHOULD JUST TRY TO REMEMBER THEIR WORDS OF INSTRUCTIONS, AND WE WILL NO LONGER FEEL THAT SEPARATION. SUCH ASSOCIATION WITH KRSNA AND THE SPIRITUAL MASTER SHOULD BE ASSOCIATION BY VIBRATION, NOT PHYSICAL PRESENCE. THAT IS REAL ASSOCIATION. We put so much stress on seeing, but when Krsna was present on this earth, so many people saw Him and did not realize that He is God; so what is the advantage of seeing? By seeing Krsna, we will not understand Him, but by listening carefully to His teachings, we can come to the platform of understanding. We can touch Krsna immediately by sound vibration; therefore we should give more stress to the sound vibration of Krsna and of the spiritual master–then we’ll feel happy and won’t feel separation.
680818SB.MON Lectures Prabhupada: Oh, that you should not think. If… The words… There are two conceptions: the physical conception and the vibration conception. So physical conception is temporary. The vibration conception is eternal. Just like we are enjoying or we are relishing the vibration of Krsna’s teachings. So by vibration He is present. As soon as we chant Hare Krsna or chant Bhagavad-gita or Bhagavata, so He is present immediately by His vibration. He’s absolute. Therefore try to remember His words of instruction; you’ll not feel separation. You’ll feel that He is with you. So we should associate by the vibration, and not by the physical presence. That is real association. Sabdad anavrtti. By sound. Just like we are touching Krsna immediately by sound. Sound vibration. SO WE SHOULD GIVE MORE STRESS ON THE SOUND VIBRATION, EITHER OF KRSNA OR OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER. THEN WE’LL FEEL HAPPY AND NO SEPARATION.
DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION OF ACARYAS –
SRILA PRABHUPADA IS THE CURRENT ACARYA.
SB 3.29.17 In Bhagavad-gita, Thirteenth Chapter, it is clearly stated that one should execute devotional service and advance on the path of spiritual knowledge by accepting the acarya. ACARYOPASANAM: ONE SHOULD WORSHIP AN ACARYA, a spiritual master who knows things as they are. The spiritual master must be in the disciplic succession from Krsna. THE PREDECESSORS OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER ARE HIS SPIRITUAL MASTER, HIS GRAND SPIRITUAL MASTER, HIS GREAT-GRAND SPIRITUAL MASTER AND SO ON, WHO FORM THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION OF ACARYAS.
SB 3.29.17 It is recommended herewith that all the acaryas be given the highest respect. It is stated, gurusu nara-matih. GURUSU MEANS “UNTO THE ACARYAS,” and nara-matih means “thinking like a common man.” To think of the Vaisnavas, the devotees, as belonging to a particular caste or community, to think of the acaryas as ordinary men or to think of the Deity in the temple as being made of stone, wood or metal, IS CONDEMNED.
Adi 7.115 In this connection the Padma Purana states, arcye visnau sila-dhir gurusu nara-matir vaisnave jati-buddhih: “One who considers the arca-murti, the worshipable Deity of Lord Visnu, to be stone, THE SPIRITUAL MASTER TO BE AN ORDINARY HUMAN BEING, and a Vaisnava to belong to a particular caste or creed, is possessed of HELLISH INTELLIGENCE.” One who follows such conclusions is doomed.
‘current link’ does NOT mean ‘living guru’
Succession – All Challenges Answered
By Deepak Vohra July 12, 2003
Three different people have responded to my request to Rama Kesava Das to support his assumption that the word ‘current link’ means a physically present ‘living guru’ with evidence from Srila Prabhupada. They are Ananda Das, Robert Newman and Rama Kesava Das himself. Firstly Ananda Das wrote a lengthy article called “Hundredfold hairsplitting cannot save Rtvik theory”. Ananda Prabhu however has helpfully summarised the contents of his article in an abstract. Extracts from this abstract are given enclosed in speech marks ” ” thus, with my response following underneath.
“ABSTRACT: Deepak Vohra declared that, absent proof, he would not approach an accessible, living guru, but attempt a theoretical relationship with a departed guru.” I declared no such thing. My article was only two paragraphs long, in which I simply asked Rama Kesava prabhu to substantiate his speculation that ‘current’ means ‘living’. Ananda needs to read what I actually wrote, and respond to that, instead of responding to some imaginary ‘ritvik theory’ he thinks I am proposing.
“Ananda das suggests that, even without specific words from Prabhupada requiring aspirants to approach a living guru, such is the clear intent of past practice, as well as of Prabhupada’s books and numerous lectures.” This is a contradiction. How can a ‘clear intent’ come from Srila Prabhupada’s books and lectures unless expressed in SPECIFIC WORDS? Srila Prabhupada only ever communicates using words, and in order for them to express an intent which is ‘clear’, they must be ‘specific’ and clear, not vague and unclear. Yet Ananda prabhu says that this ‘clear intent’ is evidenced ‘even WITHOUT SPECIFIC WORDS’.
“Book-initiation is a meaningless pretense, he says; one must apprentice with a guru capable of administering correction.” No one as far as I know has ever proposed ‘book initiation.’ Certainly not I. Initiation must always be from a spiritual master, not a book. And this idea of ‘apprenticing with a guru capable of administering correction’, was never practiced by Srila Prabhupada, since he never MET the majority of his disciples, and thus they were never administered ‘correction’ personally in the capacity of being an apprentice.
So just from the abstract, Ananda prabhu: Makes it clear that he will not be responding to what I actually said, but instead he will answering imaginary ‘straw man’ ‘ritvik theory’ arguments. Contradicts the basis of his whole thesis, which is to prove that Srila Prabhupada expressed a clear and specific intent, by saying he did so without needing to use specific words; yet Srila Prabhupada only ever commuinicated via ‘specific words’ to express a ‘clear intent’. He definitely did not use vague words to express something ‘clear’, and he certainly did not use sign language.
He also proposes a Guru-disciple model that was not practiced by Srila Prabhupada. And since Srila Prabhupada is an acarya, which means he teaches by example, we also know that whatever he did not practice, he did not teach either. Since the abstract gives the substance of the article, we can be sure that the article will not contain any material which will be relevant to either what I said, or what Srila Prabhupada taught, and hence is of no relevance to this debate. Indeed having read the article, I can confirm that all the points which Ananda prabhu makes can actually be responded to by regurgitating the above 3 points. I will give but one example:
Ananda prabhu opens his article by saying:
“Mr. Vohra persists in attributing great importance to the term “current link”, declares that it must, a priori and forever into the future, only refer to the ISKCON Founder-Acharya Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, then “challenges” us to find in the “Vedabase” a sentence he himself invented.” I never said the term ‘current link’ must refer to Srila Prabhupada ‘forever into the future’. I only asked that Rama Kesava Prabhu substantiate his assertion about what HE declared the term meant.
I also did not ask anyone to find a sentence I invented. I asked Rama Kesava prabhu to substantiate a concept which HE invented, which is that ‘current means living’. Rama Kesava prabhu said that “The words ‘current link’ clearly mean that we must approach a living guru, .”. I simply asked where Srila Prabhupada states this speculation, since it was Srila Prabhupada who used the term ‘current link’, and we can only ascribe to it a meaning that Srila Prabhupada himself gives.
In this way the whole article can be responded to by simply repeating the 3 points made above, with which I responded to his abstract. I therefore humbly suggest that Ananda prabhu re-writes his article so that it both addresses what I actually said, and what Srila Prabhupada specifically said, thus making it of value to this discussion.
Next we come to Robert Newman and Rama Kesava Das’s attempts to respond to my request that Rama Kesava Prabhu provide support from Srila Prabhupada to support his speculation that the words “current link’ clearly mean that we must approach a living guru”.
The reply from Mr. Robert Newman, agrees that no such support can be found from Srila Prabhupada’s teachings. However, he states that such support is not necessary since it is a matter of “common sense” that “current link” must mean someone who is physically present. Another reply from Rama Kesava Prabhu also agrees that no such support can be found from Srila Prabhupada’s teachings. He also agrees with Mr Newman that no such support is necessary. He gives a different reason however. He states that we can interpret the word “current link” to mean ‘physically present’, since this is what historical practice would teach us – i.e. all Diksa Gurus previously have been physically present.
However, neither of these methods – “common sense” and “historical practice” – have been sanctioned by Srila Prabhupada as the method by which to understand his words. Without such sanction, everyone can propose his own method by which to understand what Srila Prabhupada’s words ‘really’ mean. Some even say we should understand Srila Prabhupada’s words by interpreting them in line with current scientific evidence, or by having them double-checked by Narayana Maharaja etc. Everyone will have his own method. We already have two here from two different individuals. There is no end. That is why we need AUTHORITY from Srila Prabhupada that we can understand his words by a method other than – his words. So before we consider the arguments put forward by Mr Newman and Rama Kesava Das, we first need a statement from Srila Prabhupada sanctioning that their arguments are even valid. Then we can examine the actual arguments in more detail.
Thank You , Your servant,
Deepak
Pamho agtacbsp,appearance disappearance and permanence of the saguna physical form is not a ordinary thing dharmat tv saksad bhagavat pranitam,to not waste time means to go beyond the physical platform because it’s always misunderstood,mistreated,disliked etc…we already done the bad business by accepting a physical body now trying to do the spiritual one by living forever by following forever HDG acbsp ki jay ys haribol
Pamho agtacbsp,the most mystical appearance and disappearance day in this fallible material world is the infallible death of a pure devotee because it’s a pastime of the supreme personality of godhead therefore Maya devi have not power on the real devotees through her troubles maker.she can do that with unciviled citizens but not with the devotees who are destined to become a perfect race called arya used to say SP.Sri krsna only is completely SVARAT and retake HIS property when the time is over therefore we live forever in the sound that sound is God property and is SVARAT.agtacbsp ys haribol
Srimad Bhagavatam. 10.2.31 By Srila Prabhupada.
TRANSLATION
O Lord, who resembles the shining sun, You are always ready to fulfill the desire of Your devotee, and therefore You are known as a desire tree [vāñchā-kalpataru]. When ācāryas completely take shelter under Your lotus feet in order to cross the fierce ocean of nescience, they leave behind on earth the method by which they cross, and because You are very merciful to Your other devotees, You accept this method to help them.
PURPORT
This statement reveals how the merciful ācāryas and the merciful Supreme Personality of Godhead together help the serious devotee who wants to return home, back to Godhead. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, in His teachings to Rūpa Gosvāmī, said:
brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva
guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya bhakti-latā-bīja
(Cc. Madhya 19.151)
One can achieve the seed of bhakti-latā, devotional service, by the mercy of guru and Kṛṣṇa. The duty of the guru is to find the means, according to the time, the circumstances and the candidate, by which one can be induced to render devotional service, which Kṛṣṇa accepts from a candidate who wants to be successful in going back home, back to Godhead.
After wandering throughout the universe, a fortunate person within this material world seeks shelter of such a guru, or ācārya, who trains the devotee in the suitable ways to render service according to the circumstances so that the Supreme Personality of Godhead will accept the service. This makes it easier for the candidate to reach the ultimate destination. The ācārya’s duty, therefore, is to find the means by which devotees may render service according to references from śāstra. Rūpa Gosvāmī, for example, in order to help subsequent devotees, published such devotional books as Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. Thus it is the duty of the ācārya to publish books that will help future candidates take up the method of service and become eligible to return home, back to Godhead, by the mercy of the Lord.
In our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement , this same path is being prescribed and followed.
Thus the devotees have been advised to refrain from four sinful activities—illicit sex, intoxication, meat-eating and gambling—and to chant sixteen rounds a day. These are bona fide instructions.
Because in the Western countries constant chanting is not possible, one should not artificially imitate Haridāsa Ṭhākura, but should follow this method. Kṛṣṇa will accept a devotee who strictly follows the regulative principles and the method prescribed in the various books and literatures published by the authorities. The ācārya gives the suitable method for crossing the ocean of nescience by accepting the boat of the Lord’s lotus feet, and if this method is strictly followed, the followers will ultimately reach the destination, by the grace of the Lord. This method is called ācārya-sampradāya. It is therefore said, sampradāya-vihīnā ye mantrās te niṣphalā matāḥ (Padma Purāṇa). The ācārya-sampradāya is strictly bona fide. Therefore one must accept the ācārya-sampradāya; otherwise one’s endeavor will be futile. Śrīla Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura therefore sings:
tāṅdera caraṇa sevi bhakta sane vāsa
janame janame haya, ei abhilāṣa
One must worship the lotus feet of the ācārya and live within the society of devotees. Then one’s endeavor to cross over nescience will surely be successful.
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Bombay 19th August 1975
Srila Prabhupada. Lecture.
“Sruta means “Vedic knowledge”. Veda is called sruti and the knowledge obtained from hearing the Vedas that is called srotrayam and sruta. It is the Vedic knowledge heard from the spiritual master. It is a thing to be heard. First hear. We are having these satsangs or spiritual meetings, the aim is that all of you should come and listen to this Vedic knowledge. By constant hearing you will acquire the knowledge. It is not necessary to read it. If one does not know how to read and write then how will he acquire knowledge? By hearing! God has given him ears to hear. In the earlier days, this Vedic knowledge was acquired by hearing from the spiritual master.
There were no written books. Vyasadeva wrote books at the beginning of Kaliyuga when he realized that the memory power of humans would decline in this yuga and so they will not be able to acquire knowledge only through hearing. There must be books to read and keep. That is why I am printing so many books. You come hear listen and then go away but this will not work. Read all these books as you will then acquire Vedic knowledge.”
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According to 10.2.31 (S.Bhagavatam) The text reveals that Acharyas who take full shelter of the Supreme Personality of Godhead leave behind them on Earth the method that they cross over the material energy. And in His Purport Srila Prabhupada says this is through His Books. …..” thus it is the duty of the acharyas to publish Books….” And as THE SAMPRADAYA ACHARYA He instructs us that the ACHARYA-SAMPRADAYA methodology He has instructed us to follow is Bona Fide and that to not follow it is futile.THEREFORE HE IS THE SAMPRADAYA ACHARYA.
1975 Lecture Bombay by Srila Prabhupada.
“There were no written books. Vyasadeva wrote books at the beginning of Kaliyuga when he realized that the memory power of humans would decline in this yuga and so they will not be able to acquire knowledge only through hearing. There must be books to read and keep. That is why I am printing so many books. You come hear listen and then go away but this will not work. Read all these books as you will then acquire Vedic knowledge.”
So it may or may not be tradition but it is the instruction of Srila Prabhupada who is our Sampradaya Acharya and Current Link. READ HIS BOOKS because SRILA PRABHUPADA IS LIVING STILL IN SOUND. Why settle for anyone less than Srila Prabhupada. He is all devotees Diksha Guru, Shiksha guru, Founder Acharya, Jagat Guru and SAMPRADAYA ACHARYA CURRENT LINK.
RE: “So it may or may not be tradition”
HIPPOCRACY OF THE USERPERS:
To claim the Founder & Acarya, Srila Prabhupada’s ritvij system for future initiations is not Vaisnava ‘tradition’, then INVENT a new system (revised at least 11 times, but who’s counting) for multiple diksa & siksa gurus, serving under the auspices of a global managerial board that is ‘UNIQUE IN THE HISTORY OF VAISNAVISM’, with the GBC to retain a level of oversight over all individual ISKCON leaders.
#318: Regulations for Commencing the Service of Diksa-guru in ISKCON
[ISKCON Law]
PREAMBLE
“ISKCON’s ethos of multiple diksa- and siksa-gurus serving under the auspices of a global managerial board is UNIQUE IN THE HISTORY OF VAISNAVISM, and so is the challenge it poses: the institutional management has the obligation of safeguarding devotees in their quest for spiritual guidance while simultaneously not intruding upon the necessary freedom of inspiration that is the very heart of this journey.
There has been an ongoing discussion about how ISKCON Law should be structured to meet this challenge, with proposals ranging from rigid standardization of guruship to full dependence on a policy of caveat emptor (“consumer beware”) provisions. However, the model that seems optimal is one in which aspiring disciples are empowered through education, the vetting process for guru candidates is delegated as much as possible to local leaders, and the GBC, per Srila Prabhupada’s mandate, retains a level of oversight over all individual ISKCON leaders.”
One might say it’s ‘the blind leading the blind’, but IMHO it’s far more sinister than that.
हरे कृष्ण
Yfs, Balaram das.
ps: Their word ‘UNIQUE’…. definitely NOT TRADITIONAL.
Dictionary… ‘having no like or equal’
https://prabhupadabooks.com/kb/2/32?d=1
32 / Prayers by the Personified Vedas
….The personified Vedas continued: “Dear Lord, anyone who, by Your grace, has understood the glories of Your lotus feet is callous to material happiness and distress. The material pangs are inevitable as long as we are existing within the material world, but a devotee does not divert his attention to such actions and reactions, which are the results of pious and impious activities. Nor is a devotee very much disturbed or pleased by praise or condemnation by the people in general. A devotee is sometimes greatly praised by the people in general because of his transcendental activities, and sometimes he is criticized, even though there is no reason for adverse criticism. The pure devotee is always callous to praise or condemnation by the ordinary people. Actually, the devotee’s activities are on the transcendental plane. He is not interested in the praise or condemnation of people engaged in material activities. If the devotee can thus maintain his transcendental position, then his liberation in this life and in the next life is guaranteed by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. A devotee’s transcendental position within this material world is maintained in the association of pure devotees, simply by HEARING the glorious activities enacted by the Lord in different ages and in different incarnations.”
The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is based on this principle. Śrīla Narottama dāsa Ṭhākur has sung, “My dear Lord, let me be engaged in Your transcendental loving service, as indicated by the previous ~~~ācāryas~~~~, and let me live in the association of pure devotees. That is my desire, life after life.” In other words a devotee does not much care whether or not he is liberated, but he is anxious only for devotional service. Devotional service means that one does not do anything INDEPENDENTLY of the sanction of the~~~~ acāryas~~~~. The actions of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement are directed by the previous ~~~~ ācāryas~~~~,headed by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī; in the association of devotees following these principles, a devotee is able to perfectly maintain his transcendental position.
In the Bhagavad-gītā, the Lord says that a devotee who knows Him perfectly is very dear to Him. Four kinds of pious men take to devotional service. If a man is pious, then in his distressed condition, he approaches the Lord for mitigation of his distress. If a pious man is in need of material help, he also prays to the Lord for such help. If a pious man is actually inquisitive about the science of God, he also approaches the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, a pious man who is simply anxious to know the science of Kṛṣṇa also approaches the Supreme Lord.
Out of these four classes of men, the last is praised by Kṛṣṇa Himself in the Bhagavad-gītā. A person who tries to understand Kṛṣṇa with full knowledge and devotion by following in the footsteps of previous ~~~~ācāryas~~~~conversant with the scientific knowledge of the Supreme Lord is praiseworthy. Such a devotee can understand that all conditions of life, favorable and unfavorable, are created by the supreme will of the Lord. And when he has fully surrendered unto the lotus feet of the Supreme Lord, he does not care whether his condition of life is favorable or unfavorable. A devotee takes even an unfavorable condition to be the special favor of the Personality of Godhead. Actually, there are no unfavorable conditions for a devotee. He sees everything coming by the will of the Lord as favorable, and in any condition of life he is simply enthusiastic to discharge his devotional service.
This devotional attitude is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: a devotee is never distressed in reverse conditions of life, nor is he overjoyed in favorable conditions. In the higher stages of devotional service, a devotee is not even concerned with the list of do’s and do not’s. SUCH A POSITION CAN BE MAINTAINED ONLY BY FOLLOWING IN THE FOOTSTEPS OF THE ~~~~ācāryas~~~~. Because a pure devotee follows in the footsteps of the ~~~~ācāryas~~~~, any action he performs to discharge devotional service is to be understood to be on the transcendental platform. Lord Kṛṣṇa therefore instructs us that an ~~~~ācārya~~~~is above criticism. A neophyte devotee should NOT consider himself to be on the same plane as the ~~~~ācārya~~~~. It should be accepted that the ~~~~ācāryas~~~~are on the same platform as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and as such, neither Kṛṣṇa nor His representative ~~~~ācārya~~~~should be subject to any adverse criticism by the neophyte devotees…..
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This part of the chapter caught my special attention, because Srila Prabhupada mentioned the word acarya so many times.
However, neither of these methods – “common sense” and “historical practice” – have been sanctioned by Srila Prabhupada as the method by which to understand his words. Without such sanction, everyone can propose his own method by which to understand what Srila Prabhupada’s words ‘really’ mean. Some even say we should understand Srila Prabhupada’s words by interpreting them in line with current scientific evidence, or by having them double-checked by Narayana Maharaja etc. Everyone will have his own method. We already have two here from two different individuals. There is no end. That is why we need AUTHORITY from Srila Prabhupada that we can understand his words by a method other than – his words. So before we consider the arguments put forward by Mr Newman and Rama Kesava Das, we first need a statement from Srila Prabhupada sanctioning that their arguments are even valid. Then we can examine the actual arguments in more detail.
Thank You , Your servant,
Deepak
Sisya disciple of Srila Prabhupada means “no more arguments” ………. Simply follow instruction, that’s all! From following faithfully Srila Prabhupada’s advise and direction, all knowledge is revealed! by ‘descending process’ not ‘ascending process’.
Those who want to question, or analyze instruction of the Acharya are not yet sisya disciples of Srila Prabhupada! but neophytes (still in questioning phase). Only by following (even when the instruction is not fully understood!) can we realize and understand what will be revealed by the process of carrying out the instruction! The realization will automatically come to the disciple by the process of following faithfully not by argument, differences of opinion, opposing methodology etc these things are not a part of ‘sisya’………Simply follow the Acharya and realization is automatic! That’s all!
Hare krsna,Srila prabhupada is still living in the sound and where we are living?No doubt that we are eternal and living forever but where we are living? This is the question,of course we are dealing with the three guna at the moment we can’t say we are living still in the sound but in the duality of the happiness and unhappiness of this world and Srila prabhupada say don’t waste time in the so called dualities of this world just engage the senses in the service of Sri caitanya mahaprabhu by keeping chanting hare krsna maha mantra daily then we can live forever in the blissful sound.agtacbsp ys haribol