Prabhupada, June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban: […] Mistri or anyone, to develop this Krsna culture, so the Society will give guarantee. Why not take permission? And they may not come back. They may reside.
Kirtanananda: I don’t understand. That seems to be the government’s, the Indian government’s objection was that they wouldn’t come back.
Prabhupada: So they are disturbed with overpopulation.
Kirtanananda: It doesn’t make any sense. But their objection was that they might not come back.
Prabhupada: But that is good for you, because you are harassed by overpopulation. You cannot feed them even. Why you object? Let them go and live somewhere else peacefully. So they are disturbed with overpopulation. Just like the Europeans came here. Originally, in America, Europeans came. Because Europe was overcongested and they got annoyed, Columbus found this land, enough, and they migrated. So still there is so much land. The Indians are hard workers, they will develop very nicely. Just like this quarter; if Indians would be allowed, they’ll come and make it very nice. In South America, they have done. Many Indian cultivators, they have come in remote villages. This cooperation should be. Everything belongs to God. Why a class or community should be congested? Just like China, Japan, India, so much congested. What is this nonsense United Nations doing? What they have done for the last thirty years? No liberal-minded. Let them propose that wherever there is enough land and wherever there is overpopulation, let them go and the government give them simply land and let them work and be happy. Why not arrange, our Krsna consciousness movement, arrange between these two, United Nations. Why a section of people is rotting in a place and devising some means how to fight with the others and get land? Why? There is no meaning. Isavasyam idam sarvam. This is our philosophy, everything belongs to God, and everyone is a son of God; therefore the son of God has the right. Why they should be thrown together and live compulsorily in that rotten place, that in China they are living on the sea? You know that?
Pusta Krsna: Taiwan.
Kirtanananda: Thailand, yes.
Prabhupada: Everywhere. They have no place to live on the land.
Kirtanananda: They build boats and live on the water.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta Krsna: Especially if people are coming for agriculture.
Prabhupada: Agriculture is the noblest profession. Give him some land, he cuts the wood, makes cottages. The land is clear, now till it, keep cows and grow foodgrains.
Pusta Krsna: Doesn’t put any local men out of work.
Prabhupada: Simple thing. And then live comfortably, eat comfortably, chant Hare Krsna. Comfortably does not mean satisfaction of the senses. Comfortably means we require primary necessities, to eat something, to sleep somewhere or have some sex—this is also bodily need—and to defend, that’s all. These are the primary necessities. That can be arranged anywhere. God has given all facilities. Grow your own food, eat, and live anywhere. Just this place was rough like that, now it is handled nicely, it is very attractive. Any damn place, you cleanse it, it becomes home. And any nasty man, you decorate him, he becomes a bridegroom. Let Krsna consciousness movement give this sense to these rascals. They do not know how to adjust things. They simply plan their United Nations, but they do not know what is that plan. Yes. United Nations. First of all why nation? Why manufacture nation and create trouble and again ununited? Nation—this word is not there in the Vedic language. There’s no conception of nation. There is conception of varnasrama, everywhere. Not for any particular nation or any particular country, but everyone, according to quality—first-class men, second-class men, third-class men. That is there everywhere. Everywhere you go, you find some people first-class intelligent, some people less than him, some people less than him, up to fourth class, that’s all. And then fifth class. So everything is there in the Bhagavad-gita. Now you try to implement. Perfect human life. Let any sociologist, politician come forward. We shall convince them that this is only way. Why you are wasting time and barking dog in the United Nations for the last forty years and doing nothing? What I said, barking dogs? You have read it? I accused them as barking dogs, Melbourne, and they published in the paper. Actually, this is the fact.
Kirtanananda: Barking for the last thirty years.
Prabhupada: Yes. Nobody has criticized them. They have taken it seriously; otherwise, why they have published? Yes, that’s right. What they have done except barking? “I am American,” “I am Russian,” “I am this,” “I am that,” that’s all. If you keep them dogs and hogs and, nicely dressed, they go to United Nations and talk of unity, is it possible? Can the dogs and hogs can unite? Common sense. You bring all the dogs of this neighborhood and ask them “Don’t bark now. Live peacefully,” will they be able? The United Nation is like that. They’re kept as dogs and they’re advised, “Now keep peacefully.” Is it possible? They have no common sense even. First of all, let them become human beings. Conference is going on, big conference, and Jawaharlal Nehru has imitated, that in the conference there are different languages, different…, but if somebody is speaking in any language you’ll hear it in your own language. Remember? In New Delhi he has done that. This rascal thought, “Now I am finished, I have done my duty.” All rascals. (japa) Thus our definition, that anyone who is not Krsna conscious, he’s either in these four groups, bas, final. You just try to prove it. Hm? Kirtanananda Maharaja? You have any doubt about it?
Kirtanananda: No.
Prabhupada: Anyone?
na mam duskrtino mudhah prapadyante naradhamah mayayapahrta-jnana asuram bhavam asritah [Bg. 7.15]
Do it very nicely. Push Krsna consciousness movement vigorously. If you keep the people in ignorance like dogs and hogs, what is the value of advancement of knowledge? So many universities? But discuss this point, our charge, explain to them, and let someone defend them, someone talking for, and let him decide.
Pusta Krsna: Na mam duskrtino mudhah?
Prabhupada: Whether this is fact. It is fact, but even if we do not accept it, what is the wrong there, find out. We don’t find any wrong, everything. Because Krsna said it, then it’s all right. Because they will say it is too sectarian, that anyone who is not Krsna consciousness, he’s the most miscreant, sinful and ass and lowest of the mankind; he has lost his all knowledge. This is our accusation. Now defend. Any gentleman will protest that “I am such a respectable gentleman, and because I do not take to Krsna consciousness, then I’ll fall amidst these groups? What is this?” They will say. Now you’ll have to prove, that “You are not a gentleman.”
Kirtanananda: Gentleman means one who is cultured. So culture is not of the body but of knowledge.
Prabhupada: But what do you mean by culture? First of all, the question will be “What do you mean by culture?”
Pusta Krsna: There’s some idea of progress involved, advancement of life. Otherwise, there’s no need for any kind of progress. One remains as a child.
Prabhupada: Yes. Culture means advancement in knowledge. We say, “You’re a gentleman of culture.” That means he’s advanced in knowledge. So what is the advancement of knowledge? Next question will be.
Raksana: Krsna told Arjuna that that was to know that he was factually not his body.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is advancement of knowledge. Otherwise, what is the difference between this bird and the human being? He’s also dancing very jolly, but he has no knowledge that he’s not this body. So if the human being also remains falsely jolly without any knowledge of his existence, then what is the difference between these birds, dogs and human beings? Why we say low grade, animals? He’s living in his own way. He has got all the facilities of eating, sleeping, sex and defense. Just you have all the same things. Where is the difference between you and him? Why you say advanced in knowledge?
Raksana: Nowadays they say that they’re advanced in knowledge even without any sophistication at all, while Arjuna, when he was giving his arguments to Krsna…
Prabhupada: No, don’t bring Arjuna now. Just speak on commonsense platform. As soon as we bring Arjuna, they think it is sectarian. We are talking on human common sense. What is advancement of knowledge?
Devotee: They say if it’s advancement of knowledge, if they are advanced, why do they have to die? The animals are dying, and they’re accepting that, and the human beings also die. But why does he have to die if he’s advanced in knowledge?
Raksana: Even if you are advanced in knowledge, you still have to die.
Kirtanananda: Advancement of knowledge is to distinguish between what is temporary and what is eternal.
Prabhupada: Discuss on further.
Pusta Krsna: They may say though that even the human beings, the necessities are there, eating, sleeping, mating and defending.
Prabhupada: Everyone is doing. What is your advancement of knowledge? The bird is chirping, dancing, they’re living, they are sleeping, they have got sex. So everyone is doing. What is your advancement of knowledge?
Kirtanananda: We carry out these activities in relationship with the eternal soul. So that by performing the activities one is gaining knowledge.
Prabhupada: Yes. Provided you have got the knowledge of the soul, then you are advanced than the birds and beasts. Otherwise, where is the advancement? Athato brahma jijnasa. The human beings, they can inquire about the spirit soul. These birds, beasts, they cannot.
Kirtanananda: Then we find so many purported religious people. Just like Christians, they may say “Well, I believe in the soul,” but nonetheless they are going on with their materialistic civilization.
Prabhupada: That means you do not know seriously what is soul. You have simply an idea, but you do not know in detail. Just like they say, the Christians, “God is great.” But they do not know who is God and what is the meaning of greatness. That they do not know. They accept this theoretically or religious sentimentally, “God is great.” Just like your state says, “In God We Trust.” As soon as I inquire what kind of trust and to whom, there is no reply. That means they do not know what is God, what is trust. As a matter of slogan they write, that’s all. Even the state heads, and what to speak of the nonsense ordinary citizens. Seriously taking, it is very important question. They should have reply. But they do not know how to reply.
Pusta Krsna: With all of the situations that take place in the material world, they may not be able to see how God is actually active in the material world, that whether there’s a war or whether…
Prabhupada: Well, that you should…. Why you should remain in ignorance how God is acting? If you are serious about God, then you must know. Just like a statesman, he knows how government is acting. Ordinary man, he knows government is acting, but he does not know how government is acting. But advanced in knowledge, they know what is the constitution, how the government is acting. That is the difference. Therefore lawyer is appointed when there is some trouble. He can find out where is the defect. That is advancement of knowledge. (end)
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