Part 1.
From Damaghosa dasa
Dear Rupanuga prabhu
Obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada
Thank you for putting up this website about Prabhupada’s position and his books.
http://www.rupanugadas.com/
I had a few comments below I wanted to make…if I may
Hare Krsna
Damaghosa das… my reply is in italic, for clarity sake…
you write…
“In the article, this last sentence was paraphrased from memory, but the meaning is still the same as Srila Prabhupada’s statement, which now becomes enhanced when taken in the context of his speech. He is obviously referring to his present disciples as the next in the disciplic succession he has just named and numbered, all of whom are directly initiating their own disciples.
This is a very contentious point, as you well know. Many of our Godbrothers ARE initiating disciples, but where is the actual order for them to do that?
To my knowledge, there is no order. The only order he gave just prior to leaving his body was for the GBC (and others in the future) to become officiating acaryas. To initiate on his behalf. That’s all. This order was never amended or stopped. This lecture given in 1972 could also mean he wanted us, his disciples to continue as siksa gurus and not diksa gurus, especially after seeing what happened in his Gaudiya matha. And you were the recipient of that famous letter in 1974.
Actually, amongst my Godbrothers no one is qualified to become acarya
74-04-28.Rup Letter: Rupanuga
His idea was acarya was not to be nominated amongst the governing body. He said openly you make a GBC and conduct the mission. So, his idea was amongst the members of GBC who would come out successful and self-effulgent acarya would be automatically selected. So Sridhara Maharaja and his two associate gentlemen unauthorizedly selected one acarya and later it proved a failure. The result is now everyone is claiming to be acarya even though they may be kanistha adhikari with no ability to preach. In some of the camps the acarya is being changed three times ayear. Therefore, we may not commit the same mistake in our ISKCON camp. Actually, amongst my Godbrothers no one is qualified to become acarya. So, it is better not to mix with my Godbrothers very intimately because instead of inspiring our students and disciples they may sometimes pollute them. This attempt was made previously by them, especially Madhava Maharaja and Tirtha Maharaja and Bon Maharaja but somehow or other I saved the situation. This is going on. We shall be very careful about them and not mix with them. This is my instruction to you all. They cannot help us in our movement, but they are very competent to harm our natural progress. So, we must be very careful about them.
Srila Prabhupada also told us he was the initiating spiritual master and all of us were the instructing spiritual masters. There is a huge difference between the two. Both are supposed to say the same thing, but one has the spiritual power to take on sins whereas the other (siksa guru) only needs to give instruction to pass on the param para knowledge. And then there is the massive qualifications needed to take on that function of giving diksa. Two things, be ordered, and be qualified. So, neither element is there in iskcon gurus. They were not ordered, specifically, nor are they qualified. Just being a good “boy” for some years by following the 4 reg’s and chanting Hare Krsna is not the only qualification, nor is opening temples and preaching at various places.
Just for starters, here are some of the qualifications Srila Prabhupada mentions one MUST have if he is to initiate others.’
You should accept a guru who is infallible. Otherwise it is useless
1.) guru… Sisyas te ‘ham sadhi mam prapannam: “Now, Krsna, I accept You as my guru. Not as friend.” Because friendly talking is useless waste of time. He accepted Him as guru. When guru speaks, you cannot argue. That is not the process. You should accept a guru who is infallible. Otherwise, it is useless. He accepted guru Krsna because Krsna is infallible. If we accept guru, a bogus guru, then it is no benefit. Guru means Krsna’s representative. Not that everyone can be guru. 761003SB.VRN Lectures 214022/530501
2.) This is religion. Adau gurvasrayam. If you do not get a qualified guru, then everything is bogus. If you, by good fortune, if you get the association of a guru, qualified hamsa, paramahamsa… Paramahamsa guru means sannyasi’s last stage is paramahamsa. Kuticaka, bahudaka, parivrajakacarya, and paramahamsa, these are the different stages. When one takes sannyasa, he lives outside the village in a kuti, in a cottage, and the family members goes and delivers him the food, because he is not practiced. So, in the beginning, he keeps up this association of neighborhood or family, but he is not practiced. He therefore lives outside the village, and if somebody gives some food, he eats. Then when he becomes experienced, then he does not accept food from one, either his own home or one home. He takes foodstuff from many homes: Give me a little piece of capati. So, somebody gives half, because they are also not overburdened. If they have to deliver, so many sannyasis come, and sumptuous food, then how the grhastha will provide? Therefore though… They do not overburden. There may be other sannyasis, therefore little only. Madhupuri. The Gosvamis practiced this madhupuri in Vrndavana. They lived, but they would take little only from the house. This is called bahudaka. Then when he has practiced more, he travels all over the world, parivrajakacarya. And when he is fully experienced, then, in spiritual life and everything, then he is paramahamsa. So, one must find out a guru who is paramahamsa. Neither kuticaka, nor bahudaka, nor parivrajakacarya. Paramahamsa. …. Then our strong desire to enjoy this material world in different way, that will be slackened. That is wanted. Thank you very much. 61101SB.VRN Lectures 225162/530501
Only such a person is eligible to occupy the post of a guru
3.) When one has attained the topmost position of maha-bhagavata, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshiped exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. Only such a person is eligible to occupy the post of a guru. Madhya 24.330
4) Reporter: I wondered how many people you think might have been taken in by fake gurus.
Srila Prabhupada: Practically everyone. [Laughter.] There is no question of counting. Everyone.
Reporter: This would mean thousands of people, wouldn’t it?
Srila Prabhupada: Millions. Millions have been cheated, because they want to be cheated. God is omniscient. He can understand your desires. He is within your heart, and if you want to be cheated, God sends you a cheater.
SSR 2 Choosing a Spiritual Master 182103/530501
—————————— —–
you write…
He is speaking about distributing the knowledge of the parampara by his disciples, whether they distribute the (same) knowledge as vartma-pradarsaka, siksa or diksa gurus, depending on the capacity and qualifications of the individual disciple. The point is to expand on the principle that guru is one, not two. As Srila Prabhupada remarked elsewhere, if two gurus disagree, either one is not a bona fide guru or both are not bona fide. He means that because guru is one, all real gurus teach the same thing, Krsna consciousness.
So, if guru is one and these gurus supposedly all teach all the same thing, why do we have so many different siddhantas within the iskcon camp? For starters, why have they totally changed the process of offering bhoga? Prabhupada told us, and you are well aware of this, that everything is first offered to guru, then up the param para until one reaches Krsna. Iskcon now does it totally opposite. So how is this param para gurus?
When somebody teaches opposite the Acarya, Srila Prabhupada, he calls them demons, not even devotees! Here is the proof.
A siksa-guru who instructs against the instruction of spiritual, he is not a siksa guru. He is a demon.
►Srila Prabhupada: Then so siksa and diksa-guru… A siksa-guru who instructs against the instruction of spiritual, he is not a siksa guru. He is a demon. Siksa-guru, diksa-guru means… Sometimes a diksa-guru is not present always. Therefore, one can take learning, instruction, from an advanced devotee. That is called the siksa-guru. Siksa-guru does not mean he is speaking something against the teachings of the diksa-guru. He is not a siksa-guru. He is a rascal. 740704BG.HON Lectures
Srila Prabhupada:
The greatest danger to our movement will come when we manufacture and create our own process for worshiping the deities. So, don’t ask any more new questions, whatever is going on, follow it just to the exact standard as I have given you, that’s all. 73-01-04.Din Letter: Dhruvananda
So not only are these so-called leaders in iskcon changing the very fundamentals of how to worship the Lord, Srila Prabhupada calls them demons and are the GREATEST DANGER to this movement!! And you think they are spiritual masters??
How do you explain this massive discrepancy Prabhu? I would be very grateful if you could supply me your answer prabhu.
you write…That is what it means to be a guru as defined by Lord Krsna Himself. In the Gita, He tells Arjuna one must surrender to a guru humbly and render service to him, with inquiries; then that guru “will impart knowledge unto you…” That knowledge is defined in the next verse: “And when you have thus learned the truth, you will know that all living beings are but part of Me – and that they are in Me, and are Mine.” (4.35) In other words, Lord Krsna clearly defines the bona fide guru in terms of what he or she teaches: Krsna consciousness. God is one, guru is one, although teaching according to time and circumstances.
So, Srila Prabhupada is notifying his disciples that they are the next authorized gurus to distribute the knowledge, as he has done. Of course, he expected they would practice what they preached, that is the qualification and character. Only now, instead of one big guru, Srila Prabhupada, he envisioned many smaller gurus to continue distributing the (same) knowledge all over the world. Once before, he called it “old wine in a new bottle.” How else will Lord Caitanya’s Name be known in every town and village? Srila Prabhupada’s followers have the assignment.
Again, where is the actual order in Prabhupada’s final days, other than the one where he authorizes officiating acaryas?? There is no such order prabhu!!
All these quotes you supply can also be taken to mean that all the disciples of Srila Prabhupada should become gurus, spiritual masters, but as SIKSA GURUS, that’s all. It is only personal ambition that makes one think, yes, I AM qualified to become an initiating spiritual master. No bona fide guru ever wants to be an acarya.
Prabhupada told us several times when Srila Bhaktisiddhanta maharaj appeared to him at least twice in dreams to take up sannyasa, he was “horrified”. Why was he horrified? Because he knew what was involved and really did not want to do it. Jesus Christ said the same thing, “let this cup pass from me if possible, Lord.” But because these great souls are totally surrendered to the Lord, they do what He asks of them. Unlike others who WANT this position because of name and fame.
In the C.C. it is mentioned NOT to accept disciples. Why? Because of the difficulty of taking on the karma.
If it was so easy to take on the disciples karma, then why do we have the ugly and embarrassing stories of so many failures of so-called stalwart leaders in iskcon?
One should not try to be an artificially advanced devotee, thinking, “I am a first-class devotee.” Such thinking should be avoided. It is best not to accept any disciples. One has to become purified at home by chanting the Hare Krsna maha-mantra and preaching the principles enunciated by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Thus, one can become a spiritual master and be freed from the contamination of material life. Madhya 7.130
So, in the above quote, he tells us to remain at home, don’t take disciples, but become a spiritual master. This seems contradictory, doesn’t it? So how can one become a spiritual master- without disciples?
Be siksa guru. Bas…
you write…
Arjuna was told by Lord Krsna that the battle was already won, but Krsna wanted him to help make it happen and get credit for success. Similarly, Lord Caitanya said His Name would be known in every town and village. What God predicts comes true. Srila Prabhupada has given the chance – a matchless opportunity – for his followers to help the Lord execute His will. In whatever capacity, one can join with Srila Prabhupada in saying, “And we are trying our bit to distribute this knowledge.” That is, trying to pass it on as it is. All glories to Srila Prabhupada…
In conclusion I will say this, that the final instructions of the guru are the most important ones. All the others he gives along the way may be applicable to individuals or the group, according to time, place and circumstances. But the most important of all of them is what he says in his final days. These final instructions supersede all other instructions. And they are the final ones. Here is the proof…
1) Sir, you said me like this before.” No, that is not your duty. What I say now, you do it. That is obedience.
SRILA PRABHUPADA: “I may say many things to you, but when I say something directly, “Do it”, your first duty is to do that. You cannot argue, “Sir, you said me like this before.” No, that is not your duty. What I say now, you do it. That is obedience. If the captain of the ship says “Five degrees starboard” and the first mate replies, “But captain, before you told me ‘Ten degrees port’,” then it can be understood that the first mate has gone insane.” — lecture by Srila Prabhupada on the Srimad-Bhagavatam, Hyderabad, India, April 15, 1975
2.) Atreya Rsi: …I am degraded. “Very seriously, or may be given to me from time to time directly, these directions, by my aforesaid Guru Maharaja, or through his books, or…” In other words, direction given, instruction given, directly by him or through his…
Prabhupada: Better directly.
Atreya Rsi: No “His books”?
Prabhupada: No.
Atreya Rsi: Not necessary.
Prabhupada: Because I may give direction according to the time.
Atreya Rsi: “Or” means both.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Atreya Rsi: “Or” can mean… All right. “Or through his
commissioners…”(?)
Prabhupada: Direct, direct instruction is important. Just like Krsna. In the books He has given many instructions, but then He says, sarva-dharman parityaja. If one says that “You gave me instruction
before like this. How can I give up this?” so that is not important.
The direct instruction is important. 750327rc.may Conversations 376438/530501
3.) Devotee: …then why is any one activity of Krsna consciousness better than another one? Why is any one way of serving Krsna better than another? For example, with chanting of the sixteen rounds. Suppose that you’ve gone 23 hours of the day serving Krsna in one way or another, and the last hour there is opportunity to finish your rounds and also opportunity to make a life member. So instead of chanting your sixteen rounds…
Srila Prabhupada: But you cannot create your concoction! You have to abide by the orders of Krsna.
Devotee: Then why…
Srila Prabhupada: There is no question of why. It is the order of Krsna’s representative. You have to abide by that. You cannot say, “Why?” Then you are not fully surrendered, as soon as you say, “Why?” Surrender means there is no [surrender]”Why?” It is ordered; it has to be done. That’s all. As soon as there is “Why?”, there is no surrender. The basic principle is misguided. We have to follow. Just like we have got tilaka. If you say, “Why this tilaka?” There is no question of “Why?” Mahajano yena gatah sa pantha. We have been instructed by the acaryas; we have to follow that. That is surrender. You cannot say, “Why?” Is that clear? As soon as there is “Why?”, there is no surrender.
https://prabhupadabooks.com/conversations/1971/feb/gorakhpur/february/17/1971
Thank you again for posting your new website. I asked you once a couple years back when do you think the book changes will stop? Your reply (in snail mail) to me was when critical mass amongst the devotees was reached. I agree, and similarly with the issue of guru tattva.
All the problems we see in iskcon today are all due to guru aparadha starting with the sin of wanting to BE guru. Once guru tattva is properly understood, and we all understand our respective positions, and places not to go, then Srila Prabhupada will be properly worshipped, and the full blessings of him, the param para, the Goswamis, and the Panca Tattva will be realized.
Parma vijate Sri Krsna Sankirtan
Damaghosa das
Part 2
Rupanuga vada khandana – Refutation of the Rupanuga dasa’s interpretation of October 18, 1977 conversation with Srila Prabhupada
Subject: Rupanuga vada khandana – refutation of the Rupanuga dasa interpretation of October 18, 1977 conversation with Srila Prabhupada
Any opinion different from the opinion of the spiritual master is useless. One cannot infiltrate materially concocted ideas into spiritual advancement. That is deviation. CC Adi 12.9 Purport):
Reply to Rupanuga dasa
Actual text of conversation with Srila Prabhupada in his room, October 18, 1977, Vrndavana, India
Srila Prabhupāda: So, you are taking care of that conveyance?
Tamāla Krnsa: Yes, we are, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Jayapatākā: Because you are a paramahamsa, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you are seeing everyone else as surrendered to Krsna. But only by your mercy, you are forcing us to serve Krsna.
Srila Prabhupāda: Hare Krsna. One Bengali gentleman has come from New York?
Tamāla Krsna: Yes. Mr. Sukamal Roy Chowdury.
Srila Prabhupāda: So, I have deputed some of you to initiate. Hm?
Tamāla Krsna: Yes. Actually… Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Srila Prabhupāda: So, I think Jayapatākā can do that if he likes. I have already deputed. Tell him.
Tamāla Krsna: Yes.
Srila Prabhupāda: So, deputies, Jayapatākā’s name was there?
Bhagavān: It is already on there, Śrīla Prabhupāda. His name was on that list.
Srila Prabhupāda: So I depute him to do this at Māyāpura, and you may go with him. I stop for the time being. Is that all right?
Tamāla Krsna: Stopped doing what, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Srila Prabhupāda: This initiation. I have deputed the, my disciples. Is it clear or not?
Girirāja: It’s clear.
Srila Prabhupāda: You have got the list of the names?
Tamāla Krsna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Srila Prabhupāda: And if by Krsna’s grace I recover from this condition, then I shall begin again, or I may not be pressed in this condition to initiate. It is not good.
Girirāja: We will explain to him so that he will understand properly.
Srila Prabhupāda: Hm? Hm?
Girirāja: I said we will explain to the Bengali gentleman just as you have described to us, so that he’ll be satisfied with this arrangement.
Srila Prabhupāda: And Dr. Ghosh has his scheme, but actually the scheme is there in the Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. We want to introduce that scheme to our Gurukula. We haven’t got to manufacture scheme. Is that correct?
Girirāja: Yes.
Srila Prabhupāda: Let them learn to rise early in the morning and cleanse. This is the first scheme. This will keep their health nice. Cātur-varnyam mayā srstam [Bhagavad Gita. 4.13]. Unless in the human society the varnāśrama system is introduced, no scheme or social order, health order or any order, political order, will be successful.
Bhagavān: Everything is there very clearly in your books, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Srila Prabhupāda: A man-made scheme-useless. Sāttvika-yuga.(?) What is that verse? Sattvāvalambi-para-sattva-viśuddha-sattvam… From Brahma-samhitā?
Rupanuga dasa statement: A Bengali gentleman has come from New York seeking initiation from Srila Prabhupada. But Srila Prabhupada has already deputed his ritvik acaryas and he thinks Jayapataka should do the initiation.
Note: Srila Prabhupada has not specifically told anyone to be a diksa-guru, only to act as officiating representative as per his July 9th letter. Srila Prabhupada is only reconfirming what he had already established in his earlier directive of July 9th 1977 letter.
Rupanuga dasa statement: The key sentences here are not the ones containing the word “depute,” but rather the following: “I stop for the time being,” “And if by Krsna’s grace I recover from this condition, then I shall begin again.”
Note: Classic word jugglery. After Srila Prabhupada has emphasized the word deputee in five different grammatical combinations, we are now being informed that this not the key point.
Srila Prabhupada’s emphasis is not only three times, but five times.
It is common understanding that in Vedic literatures, to emphasize an important point, it is done three times.
Srila Prabhupada says: “anything is uttered three times—“do it, do it, do it”—one should understand that this is meant to indicate great stress on a fact…” Srimad-Bhagavatam 10.9.20:
This verse repeats the word ‘eva’ [‘certainly’] three times for emphasis, and it also three times repeats ‘harer nāma’ [‘the holy name of the Lord’], just to make common people understand.
PURPORT
To emphasize something to an ordinary person, one may repeat iit three times, just as one might say, “You must do this! You must do this! You must do this! Sri Caitanya-caritamrta (Unrevised original edition) Adi-Lila 17.23
“This verse repeats the word ‘eva’ [‘certainly’] three times for emphasis, and it also three times repeats ‘harer nāma’ [‘the holy name of the Lord’], just to make common people understand.
Srila Prabhupada: “…The Vedic literature, for emphasis, clearly states three times that in this age of Kali—kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva—there is no other alternative, no other alternative, no other alternative than harer nāma Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.21.6
Note: Srila Prabhupada uses the word deputy five times referring to his prior nomination on July 9th 1977 of 11 officiating representatives to carry initiations on his behalf.
11 chosen devotees were only officiating representatives.
Srila Prabhupada’s repeated use of the word deputee five times is the key point of this conversation.
Rupanuga dasa’s statement:
“And if by Krsna’s grace I recover from this condition, then I shall begin again.” “I stop for the time being” indicates that the ritvik appointments made three months earlier were necessary due to Srila Prabhupada’s condition, but he considered them temporary—to last until his own initiations could begin again. In other words, “for the time being” indicates Srila Prabhupada’s expectation of taking up initiations again in due course. “And if by Krsna’s grace I recover from this condition, then I shall begin again,” indicates his hopeful intention to take up initiation duties again in the future.
Notes: More speculative interpretation. Nowhere did Srila Prabhupada has ever said that the following: “the ritvik appointments made three months earlier were necessary due to Srila Prabhupada’s condition, but he considered them temporary.” In other words, “for the time being” indicates Srila Prabhupada’s expectation of taking up initiations again in due course.
Fact: it is well known that Srila Prabhupada;’s health at that time was not in the best condition. Although he is always fully transcendental and above the modes of nature, he had been bed ridden for several months, and his health had been deteriorating.
Fact: July 9th 1977. Srila Prabhupada had put in place an officiating representative system by his letter of July 1977. And he again reconfirmed his original intention of setting up an officiating representative system.
Fact: July 19th 1977.
Srila Prabhupāda: So, let us artificial activity. I think this is a nice arrangement.
Devotee: Upendra and I could see it for the last… [break]
Srila Prabhupāda: And nobody is going to disturb you there. Make your own field and continue to become rttvik and act on my charge. People are becoming sympathetic there. The place is very nice.
Devotee: Yeah. He says, “The introduction of Bhagavad-gītā has been translated into Tamil, and I will have the second chapter done next. Then publish a small booklet for immediate distribution.”
Srila Prabhupāda: Very good.
Srila Prabhupada Room Conversation, July 19, 1977, Vrndavana, India.
Notes: Srila Prabhupada is only indicating that his health is not good enough to carry on the ceremonials of the fire sacrifice etc. and that his deputies can do this on behalf, initiating his disciples by acting as his deputee representatives.
Srila Prabhupada was still and is still giving divyam-jnanam, the essence of diksa, and accepting disciples. All he is asking his disciples to do in this conversation is for his deputees, officiating representatives is to take up the process of (i) chosing the names of the new initiate; (ii) chanting on the japa beads on behalf of Srila Prabhupada; (iii) perform the fire sacrifice of the initiation on his behalf.
Srila Prabhupada always used specific terminology.
–There is no mistake in Srila Prabhupada’s rhetorical arrangements.
Sri Caitanya-Caitamta says: “Mistakes, illusions, cheating and defective perception do not occur in the sayings of the authoritative sages.
Purport
…But there cannot be mistakes, illusion, cheating or imperfect perception in the words of liberated sages… Śrīla Vyāsadeva revealed these statements after perfect realization, and therefore they are perfect, for liberated sages like Vyāsadeva never commit errors in their rhetorical arrangements… Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Unrevised 1975 edition- 1975 Adi-lila 2.86
Srila Prabhupada’s direction is the same s Krsna’s direction.
Srila Prabhupada says: “… The spiritual master is the representative of the Supreme Lord, his direction is directly the direction of the Supreme Lord…” Bhagavad-gita As It Is, (Unrevised 1972 edition) 10.3.
Srila Prabhupada never contradicts himself.
Srila Prabhupāda: Yes. So, contradiction means imperfect knowledge. Perfect knowledge means who sticks to his principles. That is perfect knowledge. One who does not stick to his original proposal, his knowledge is imperfect. Philosophy Discussions: Discussions with Syamasundara dasa: Gottfried Wilhelm von Leibnitz
Notes; If Srila Prabhupada had intended for his disciples to be full-fledged diksa-gurus by this conversation, why did he not use the specific words “diksa-guru” or acarya? He only used the word deputee. He was precise, and simply reconfirmed the last previous statement he had made on July 19, 1977: “continue to become a ritvik and act on my charge.”
Srila Prabhupada does not use the word (i) diksa-guru, (ii) successor guru, (ii) zonal guru, (iv) appointed guru, etc., he clearly uses the word deputy to emphasize that these 11 chosen devotees were only officiating representatives.
If Srila Prabhupada had intended to amend, modify, change, supplement or reverse his written directive (His “Final Order”) of July 9, 1977, “these representatives may accept the devotee as an initiated disciple of Srila Prabhupada… the newly initiated devotees are disciples of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada” and his reconfirmation on July 19, 1977 “continue to become a ritvik and act on my charge”, why did He not use the specific words diksa-guru or appointed guru, or successor guru or acarya?
List of names.
Srila Prabhupāda: You have got the list of the names?
Tamāla Krsna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda
Rupanuga dasa conveniently avoids one of the most important point in this whole conversation: the list of names.
And what is that list? The July 9th 1977 written directive approved by Srila Prabhupada, specifying the direct capacity in which the officiating representatives were to continue the officiating service to be done on His behalf.
- Srila Prabhupada designated these 11 devotees to act as ritviks and did not indicate that after his departure they would be empowered to act as guru-acharyas, it must be accepted that ritvik representative was the authority he saw them fit to handle
- His last written words were “act as rittvik representative of the acarya”. That is His order, his arrangement for continuation of the disciplic succession.
- It has now become a fashion for the members and supporters of the self-appointed acarya party to quote Srila Prabhupada to contradict and defy Srila Prabhupada.
- Srila Prabhupada made his intentions and directions very clear in His directives of July 9 and July 19th1977. There is no need for new interpretations.
A few historical notes.
Outside advice?
Rupanuga dasa and the GBC went to seek outside advice and clarification from Gaudiya Matha advisors in 1978.
Srila Prabhupada differs: “You should not give attention to any outsider’s advice because they are completely unfit to give you advice..” SPL Sunday, March 9, 1969
” There is no need whatsoever for outside instruction.” SPL to Gurukrpa and Yasoda nandana dasa, December 1973
“… he never recommended anyone to be acarya of the Gaudiya Math. But Sridhara Maharaja is responsible for disobeying this order of Guru Maharaja, and he and others who are already dead unnecessarily thought that there must be one acarya. If Guru Maharaja could have seen someone who was qualified at that time to be acarya he would have mentioned…”
…So Sridhara Maharaja and his two associate gentlemen unauthorizedly selected one acarya and later it proved a failure. The result is now everyone is claiming to be acarya even though they may be kanistha adhikari with no ability to preach. In some of the camps the acarya is being changed three times a year. Therefore, we may not commit the same mistake in our ISKCON camp. Actually, amongst my Godbrothers no one is qualified to become acarya…”
So, Sridhar Maharaja was responsible for disobeying…
“We shall not make the same mistake in our ISKCON camp…
” They [Gaudiya matha] are very competent to harm our natural progress” Srila Prabhupada letter to Rupanuga dasa, April 1974
“…I have also read specifically your articles on the matter of acaryas, wherein on the 14th Paragraph I see the acharya shall be entitled to nominate in writing his successive acharya. But we do not find any record where our Srila Prabhupada nominated any acharya after Him. Different persons have interpreted on this point, and every one of our Godbrothers are acting as acharya, so this is a controversial point which I do not wish to enter into while we are proposing for cooperation …” August: Letter to: Swami B. S. Bhagavata Maharaja — Los Angeles 21 August, 19
So where is the record of the so-called acarya appointment allegedly done by Srila Prabhupada and propagated by Rupanuga das and the GBC in 1978?
Clear as Mud?
Fact: The GBC and Rupanuga went to the Gaudiya Matha Nabadvipa advisor in March of 1978 to seek advice and clarification about the guru issue and how it should be implemented in ISKCON.
Rupanuga dasa, in knowledge of the above-referenced clear warnings by Srila Prabhupada, did not warn and alert devotees and the leaders of ISKCON about Srila Prabhupada’s prophetic letter. He went right along with the concocted acarya appointment. But now he wants all of us to believe that he understood Srila Prabhupada’s real intentions in October of 1977! Why did Rupanuga dasa and the GBC go to the Gaudiya Matha advisor, for clarification for something they now claim they had understood all along?
If, according to Rupanuga dasa and company, everything was so clear to them in October of 1978, as per the following conversation:
Srila Prabhupāda: This initiation. I have deputed the, my disciples. Is it clear or not?
Girirāja: It’s clear, then why did they jump to Nabadvipa to seek clarification from an outside advisor to seek clarification of Srila Prabhupada’s instructions? How did everything become so unclear within just a few months that they felt that had to go to the Gaudiya Matha advisor to seek clarification? Another unresolved mystery!
Convenient Amnesia.
Srila Prabhupada had already warned Rupanuga dasa about the history of the Gaudiya Matha in April of 1974. Had Rupanuga dasa conveniently forgotten the April 28, 1974 personal letter from Srila Prabhupada and His warnings about Sridhar Maharaja’s role in destroying the Gaudiya Matha and their unauthorized acarya appointment?
Consultation with Higher Authorities?
Further, in March of 1978, at the Mayapur festival, Rupanuga dasa and the GBC issued a position paper to explain the process of future initiations for ISKCON. Under the title of the position paper was placed “In Consultation with Higher Authorities”. So why did Rupanuga dasa and company have to consult with “Higher Authorities” in March of 1978, just a few months after they had allegedly understood Srila Prabhupada’s clear instructions in the matter of initiations in October of 1977? More unresolved mysteries!
And who are these so-called higher authorities? And when did Srila Prabhupada ever instruct us to go consulting other higher authorities than Him for the conduct of the missionary activities of His movement?
1978 Guru appointment hoax.
Following the Mayapur festival in March of 1978, a worldwide propaganda campaign was orchestrated by Rupanuga dasa and the GBC to attempt to convince the ISKCON devotees that Srila Prabhupada had appointed 11 gurus who were his true successors, that these 11 were pure devotees, uttama adhikaris, and that Srila Prabhupada had personally appointed these pure devotee diksa-gurus in May and July of 1977, as his true successors pure devotees acaryas.
Mythology Revival.
The secretary himself admitted the guru appointment myth in December of 1980 in Topanga Canyon, California. He clearly admitted in a quasi-public forum that the idea that Srila Prabhupada had appointed 11 gurus was a myth and that Srila Prabhupada had never appointed any gurus.
It should be noted that these important conversations with His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada were not released by the GBC for many years after Srila Prabhupada’s departure. Why not?
This new grammatical jugglery and interpretation is simply another attempt to revive the same old Guru appointment myth in a different format and avoid the order of the acarya Srila Prabhupada.
Srila Prabhupada did not use the word diksa guru, acarya, appointed guru, appointed successor, etc He was very consistent by use of the word deputee in five different grammatical variations.
Historical facts.
By June of 1977, Srila Prabhupada had already removed himself from the choosing of the names of the new initiates, the chanting on the beads, the performing of the fire sacrifice but he was still the diksa-guru of the new initiates and was to remain the diksa-guru. Sri Prabhupada never gave the order to any of these 11 or 111 disciples to actually be diksa-gurus in the last few months of 1977. The current Rupanuga dasa interpretation and all of the post 1977 GBC interpretations of these various conversations are simply an attempt at mythology revival and avoiding the order of the acarya, as per his clear directive of July 9th 1977.
When was Srila Prabhupada’s July 9th 1977 order changed or modified by Srila Prabhupada himself? When was the specific order to any of his disciples to be diksa-guru ever given after May 28 1977?
It is a fact that Rupanuga dasa and company’s post 1977 propaganda campaign throughout ISKCON, coupled with the GBC‘s iron fisted approach, conveyed myth and falsehood that the 11 had been appointed by Srila Prabhupada as diksa-gurus?
While it is certainly noble of Rupanuga dasa to enlighten us with his new current interpretation, it should not be forgotten that he was one of the original GBCs who vociferously supported and preached the appointment hoax and myth for many years.
While this new interpretation after 32 years seems to be an interesting pious belief, can he now publicly answer as to when these original 11 were ever appointed or selected by Srila Prabhupada as diksa-gurus When? Where? How?
Has anything been learned from the post 1936 and post 1977 appointment guru fiasco and the Maha-bhagavata assembly line of the GBC?
Srila Prabhupada had already warned a few months earlier about the dreaded personal ambition disease that destroyed the Gaudiya Matha:
Srila Prabhupada warns about the result of manufacturing? Result of suppressing Guru. Result of ambition to take the place of guru.
Srila Prabhupada: We haven’t got to manufacture. To manufacture ideas is troublesome. Why should we take the trouble? And as soon as you want to manufacture something to my…., that is DANGEROUS. …That you are singing every day, “what our guru has said, that is our life and soul.” …As soon as this poison will come-suppress guru and I become Brahman-everything finished. Spiritual life is finished. Gaudiya Matha finished, …Violated the orders of Guru Maharaja. …And as soon as you manufacture, fall down. This manufacturing idea is very, very dangerous in spiritual life. …Our mission is to serve bhakta visesa and live with devotees. Not that you take the place of guru…. That is nonsense, very dangerous. Then everything will be spoiled. As soon as you become ambitious to take place of guru-gurusuh nara matih. That is material disase. April 1977 Bombay, India
Srila Prabhupada’s warning about concocting whimsically. Srila Prabhupada defines preaching.
“So, if you are actually, perfectly carrying out the orders of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, then you are preaching. Otherwise you will do wrongly, mislead. Don’t do that. Andha yathandhair upaniyamanah . If you remain blind, don’t try to lead other blind men. That is misleading. First of all open your eyes. Everything is there. Nobody can do anything whimsically. If you do whimsically, concoctedly, that will be failure. It will not be effective.
Conversations with Srila Prabhupada, 2 May, 1976, Fiji)
Srila Prabhupada warns about proceeding on the wrong platform.
What will be the result of the wrong platform?
“So, on the wrong platform you may go-go forward more and more-but it will be dismantled, because it is wrong.” Lecture 6-5-74
Srila Prabhupada warns about contradictory philosophy.
DISCIPLE: One day they say one thing. One day they say something else.
PRABHUPADA: That means rascal. Room Conversation 2-23-75
Srila Prabhupada explains how will questions be answered?
Every one of you must regularly read our books at least twice, in the morning and evening, and automatically all questions will be answered. (Srila Prabhupada Letter to Randhira, 24/01/70)
What will be the result of the wrong platform?
“So, on the wrong platform you may go-go forward more and more-but it will be dismantled, because it is wrong.” Lecture 6-5-74
DISCIPLE: One day they say one thing. One day they say something else.
PRABHUPADA: That means rascal. Room Conversation 2-23-75
“If you cannot express, if you do not understand. Simply people wants jugglery of words, they don’t want substance. They don’t want substance. That is the difficulty in the mod…, in the present age.” Lectures: Philosophy Discussions: Discussions with Hayagriva dasa: Karl Marx
It is interesting to note that Rupanuga dasa did not challenge the following article when Sridhar Maharaja was exposed.
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-07/editorials2250.htm
This article covers proof of the Ritvik initiation system of formality and the six accompanying articles in depth:
https://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/02-09/editorials4085.htm
Jaya Srila Prabhupada
It’s not a joke because the yamadutas waiting for all these insignificant monsters to do jugglery with them in this way this stupid living entity can understand that is not a joke to interfere with the divine plain of SSGG IN THE WRONG WAY BY CHANGING WHAT CAN’T BE CHANGED , only stupid people try to do that until they realized that they are really in danger and stop to interfere in what is not their business. Anyway here is another donkey in the list of many others donkey who done the same mistake of this unwanted and unworthy wretch, he will learn by getting beat up by the three guna constantly until he will come to this point and stop once for all to create more problems because he can die by getting beat up from someone who is superior for producing more rubbish instead of bhakti.agtacbsp ys haribol
OUTSTANDING!
Brilliant!! These deeply exposing essays are very important right now as the world moves into a wider start of Lord Caitanya’s era.
This is a Kshatriya mood.
Thank you.
Hasti Gopala dasa
Prabhupada House
First Hanuman Rangers Motto
Srila Prabhupada is our leader, the holy name is our main weapon and the original Bhagavad Gita As It Is is our war plan. And for the support of Srila Prabhupada, with a firm reliance on Krsna, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honour.
“Our point should be that we shall take all necessary steps for self-protection, depending on the results on Krsna. We should not idly sit down simply depending on Krsna. Arjuna had to fight in the battlefield, but at the same time he heard Bhagavat Gita. Our motto shall be like that.
Neither shall fight alone, without Krsna consciousness, nor we shall give up all possible facilities or precautions.”
His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada
https://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=50257
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/books/pdf/The%20Gita%20Study%20Guide.pdf
Pamho agtacbsp, one must be free from any trace of bodily concept of life through the contamination of the subtle and gross body because it’s just a subtle attraction that keep everyone to do the same mistake which is considered evil , through senses gratification to different levels of mental speculation which is poison for the self realization , anyway just think how stink is the drain of the material world through a saguna physical and subtle form can help to become detached from mental speculation through senses gratification, we trying to never forget the real identity of the senses as SRI GOVINDA DEVA that can help a lot to not become victim of MAYA SUKAYA through unwanted rubbish which is the real nature of the relative world. Agtacbsp ys haribol
Pamho agtacbsp, of course to live hundred years without KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS is not really worthy but a moment lived in KC is a great moment if one become KRSNA CONSCIOUS I mean many people is living outside the house where the whole world can live in created by SRILA PRABHUPADA great moment come when one is situated in the right track with pure devotees only not crap , great moment come when one is determined to chant hare krsna under the perfect guidance of pure devotees and not by people who is still trapped in the mental slavery of the painful bodily concept of life. For example it was the best moment for GURU NANAK WHEN MET SRI CAITANYA MAHAPRABHU COMING OUT OF SRI JAGANATH TEMPLE AND HE WAS GOING IN BUT HE STOPPED WALKING WHEN HE SAW SCM WHO ASK HIM YOU DON’T GO INSIDE TO SEE THE LORD AND GURU NANAK ANSWERED I ALREADY SAW THE LORD , SRI NITYANANDA PRABHU GAVE DIKSA TO GURU NANAK , THAT’S NOT A GREAT MOMENT BUT THE BEST MOMENT because not all the citizens at the time of SCM recognised HIM AS THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD in the same way one need to become KC to have the everlasting best moment by following the pure devotees otherwise it’s a waste of time , long life is useless without KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS and the habit is the second nature of the soul .agtacbsp ys haribol
Note: Rupanuga das wants to manufacture cheap sahajiya version of Diksa gurus. Even when Srila Prabhupada wrote to the envious Rupanuga das, he does not want to accept Srila Prabhupada as CURRENT Diksa guru but instead CONCOCTS his own version of bogus conditioned soul diksa gurus in the disciplic succession to minimize Srila Prabhupada :
Letter to: Rupanuga
—
Hawaii
14 March, 1969
69-03-14
Regarding your third question—”Why are there apparent time-gaps in the
line of disciplic succession as listed in the Bhagavad-gitä? Is Arjuna an
instructor Spiritual Master and not an initiator Spiritual Master and therefore
not listed?” The time gap mentioned by you is inevitable, because the disciplic
succession sometimes becomes disconnected, as we find from the
Bhagavad-gitä. This is the influence of material energy, and to link it up again,
it takes some time. That some time may appear to our calculation a big gap, but
in relation with the eternal time, it is not even as instant. So this big gap or
small gap of time is relative. Just like our 24 hours and Brahma’s 24 hours,
there is much difference. Our 24 hours is not even a fraction of his second.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
SB 3.13.8 P The Appearance of Lord Varaha
Brahma is the direct recipient of Vedic knowledge from the Personality of Godhead, and anyone discharging his entrusted duties in disciplic succession from Brahma is sure to gain fame in this life and salvation in the next. The disciplic succession from Brahma is called the Brahma-sampradaya, and it descends as follows: Brahma, Narada, Vyasa, Madhva Muni (Purnaprajna), Padmanabha, Nrhari, Madhava, Aksobhya, Jayatirtha, Jnanasindhu, Dayanidhi, Vidyanidhi, Rajendra, Jayadharma, Purusottama, Brahmanyatirtha, Vyasatirtha, Laksmipati, Madhavendra Puri, Isvara Puri, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Svarupa Damodara and Sri Rupa Gosvami and others, Sri Raghunatha dasa Gosvami, Krsnadasa Gosvami, Narottama dasa Thakura, Visvanatha Cakravarti, Jagannatha dasa Babaji, Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Gaurakisora dasa Babaji, Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
disciplic succession:
Bg Introduction
1) Krsna, 2) Brahma, 3) Narada; 4) Vyasa, 5) Madhva, 6) Padmanabha, 7) Nrhari, 8) Madhava, 9) Aksobhya, 10) Jaya Tirtha, 11) Jnanasindhu, 12) Dayanidhi, 13) Vidyanidhi, 14) Rajendra, 15) Jayadharma, 16) Purusottama, 17) Brahmanya Tirtha, 18) Vyasa Tirtha, 19) Laksmipati, 20) Madhavendra Puri, 21) Isvara Puri, (Nityananda, Advaita), 22) Lord Caitanya, 23) Rupa, (Svarupa, Sanatana), 24) Raghunatha, Jiva, 25) Krsnadasa, 26) Narottama, 27) Visvanatha, 28) (Baladeva) Jagannatha, 29) Bhaktivinoda, 30) Gaurakisora, 31) Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, 32) His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami
Prabhupada
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
68-02-13. Letter: Upendra
There are four Sampradayas from the beginning of the creation. One is called Brahma Sampradaya, and is coming down by disciplic succession from Brahma; another Sampradaya is coming down from Laksmi, called Sri Sampradaya; another is coming down from the Kumaras, they are known as Nimbarka Sampradaya; another Sampradaya is coming from Lord Siva, Rudra Sampradaya or Visnu Swami. These are four bona fide Sampradayas that are accepted by the bona fide spiritualists. The Impersonalist Sampradaya is not original neither the Impersonalist Sampradaya or party can help us. At the present moment there are so many Sampradayas, but we have to test them about their method of disciplic understanding. Anyway, all the four Sampradayas above mentioned, they are after worshipping the Supreme Lord Visnu, in His different Expansions, and some of them are in favor of worshipping Radha Krishna. In the later age the Brahma Sampradaya was handed down though Madhva Acarya; in this Madhva Acarya disciplic succession came Isvara Puri. This Isvara Puri was accepted as Spiritual Master of Lord Caitanya. Therefore, we being in disciplic succession of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, we are known as the Madhva Sampradaya. And because Lord Caitanya appeared in Bengal, which country is called Gaudadesa, our Sampradaya party is known as Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya. But all these Sampradayas are non-different from one another because they believe and worship the Supreme Lord. Any other Sampradaya who are Impersonalist or voidist or non-devotee, they are rejected by us.
My Guru Maharaja was in the 10th generation from Lord Caitanya. We are 11th from Lord Caitanya. The disciplic sucession is as follows: 1. Sri Krishna, 2. Brahma, 3. Narada, 4. Vyasa, 5. Madhva, 6. Padmanabha, 7. Nrihari, 8. Madhava, 9. Akshobhya, 10. Jayatirtha, 11. Jnanasindhu, 12. Purusottama, 13. Vidyanidhi, 14. Rajendra, 15. Jayadharma, 16. Purusottama, 17. Vyasatirtha, 18. Laksmipati, 19. Madhavendra Puri, 20. Isvara Puri (Advaita, Nityananda) 21. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, 22. (Svarupa, Sanatana) Rupa, 23.(Jiva) Raghunath, 24. Krishna dasa, 25. Narottama, 26. Visvanatha, 27. (Baladeva.) Jagannatha, 28. (Bhaktivinode) Gaura-kisora, 29. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, Sri Barshabhanavidayitadas, 30. Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta.
Note: Rupanuga das fails to understand even most the basic that only the Acarya is worshipped as Diksa Guru not his CONCOCTED version of a bunch of conditioned soul CROOKS:
Note: ONLY Srila Prabhupada will lay claim to be PROMINENT ACARYA to be FOLLOWED because of his books,cds,tapes, disciples, temples so extensive over the world for FUTURE generations OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS:
68-04-12. Letter: Dayananda Regarding parampara system: THERE IS NOTHING TO WONDER FOR BIG GAPS. Just like we belong to the Brahma Sampradaya, so we accept it from Krishna to Brahma, Brahma to Narada, Narada to Vyasadeva, Vyasadeva to Madhva, and between Vyasadeva and Madhva there is a big gap. But it is sometimes said that Vyasadeva is still living, and Madhva was fortunate enough to meet him directly. In a similar way, we find in the Bhagavad-gita that the Gita was taught to the sungod, some millions of years ago, but Krishna has mentioned only three names in this parampara system–namely, Vivasvan, Manu, and Iksvaku; and SO THESE GAPS DO NOT HAMPER FROM UNDERSTANDING THE PARAMPARA SYSTEM. WE HAVE TO PICK UP THE PROMINENT ACARYA, AND FOLLOW FROM HIM. There are many branches also from the parampara system, and it is not possible to record all the branches and sub-branches in the disciplic succession. WE HAVE TO PICK UP FROM THE AUTHORITY OF THE ACHARYA IN WHATEVER SAMPRADAYA WE BELONG TO.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
ONLY MAHA-BHAGAVATA IS DIKSA GURU: Srila Prabhupada is OUR Diksa Guru For As Long as His Books Are On The Planet
Reply to Rocana’s article “A Ritvik Smokescreen”
By Mahesh Raja and Prabhupadanugas
A) If you are NOT on Transcendental platform you CAN NOT give TRANSCENDENTAL Knowledge.
B) Madhyama means MIDDLE stage he is the RECEPIENT of Diksa whereas the Mahabhagavata is the Spiritual Master who TRANSFERS Krsna in the heart of Madhyama Adhikari thus Diksa is described GRAPHICALLY SB10.2.18. And Antya lila 4.192 – 4.194.
C) Madhyama can NOT be a Diksa Guru as that would be OFFENSIVE chanting – means his spiritual life is FINISHED!
Purport, Nectar of Instruction 5
One should NOT become a spiritual master UNLESS he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikari.
The 3rd Offence in chanting is to disobey the Spiritual Master so if one becomes a spiritual master without being on Uttama Adhikari he will be committing offense.
NoD (Original 1970 page 71) 8 Offenses to Be Avoided The offenses against the chanting of the holy name are as follows: (3) To disobey the orders of the spiritual master.
Lectures: BG 7.1 – Ahmedabad, December 13, 1972 : 721213BG.AHM : The madhyama-adhikārī should not touch the demons. Because maybe, he may turn again, be demon. Therefore one should be very careful to associate with the demons.
D) Kanistha is a MATERIALLY CONTAMINATED hence he is unfit to give Diksa
So how can we establish that Kanistha does NOT give diksa?
Kanistha is a QUALIFIED Brahmana. But even such a QUALIFIED Brahmana is in MATERIAL CONTAMINATION. And because he has MATERIAL CONTAMINATION he does NOT have Transcendental Knowledge. What you do NOT have you can NOT give. And it is Transcendental Knowledge that frees one from ALL MATERIAL CONTAMINATION.
Definition of Diksa:
Madhya 15.108 The Lord Accepts Prasada at the House of Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya
Srila Jiva Gosvami explains diksa in his Bhakti-sandarbha (283):
divyam jnanam yato dadyat kuryat papasya sanksayam tasmad dikseti sa prokta desikais tattva-kovidaih
“Diksa is the process by which one can awaken his transcendental knowledge and vanquish all reactions caused by sinful activity. A person expert in the study of the revealed scriptures knows this process as diksa.”
Madhya 4.111 Sri Madhavendra Puri’ s Devotional Service Diksa actually means initiating a disciple with transcendental knowledge by which he becomes freed from all material contamination.
So here we see from above definition of Diksa quotes:
D1) Transcendental Knowledge awakened, initiated
D2) becomes freed from all material contamination; vanquish all reactions caused by sinful activity
Now ask a simple question HOW can a Brahmana(Kanistha) who is NOT freed from MATERIAL CONTAMINATION GIVE DIKSA -BY WHICH- ONE BECOMES FREED FROM **ALL** MATERIAL CONTAMINATION?
Just take a look at how contradictory and stupid this looks:
Q1) HOW can a Brahmana (Kanistha) who is HIMSELF material contaminated free another person from **ALL** MATERIAL CONTAMINATION?
SB 9.19.25 P King Yayati Achieves Liberation The word vidhuta, meaning “cleansed,” is very significant. Everyone in this material world is contaminated (karanam guna-sango ‘sya). Because we are in a material condition, we are contaminated either by sattva-guna, by rajo-guna or by tamo-guna. Even if one becomes a qualified brahmana in the mode of goodness (sattva-guna), he is still materially contaminated. One must come to the platform of suddha-sattva, transcending the sattva-guna. Then one is vidhuta-trilinga, cleansed of the contamination caused by the three modes of material nature.
Q2) If a Brahmana(Kanistha) had Transcendental Knowledge then why is contaminated by goodness(sattva-guna)?
Diksa is the process by which one can awaken his transcendental knowledge and vanquish all reactions caused by sinful activity.
Diksa actually means initiating a disciple with transcendental knowledge by which he becomes freed from all material contamination
Q3) So HOW can a Kanistha(Brahmana) who HIMSELF is material contaminated does NOT have Transcendental Knowledge give another person Transcendental Knowledge to free him?
Common-sense: What you do NOT have you CAN NOT give to others.
770214r2.may Conversations
Prabhupada: Vaisnava is not so easy. The varnasrama-dharma should be established to become a Vaisnava. It is not so easy to become Vaisnava.
Hari-sauri: No, it’s not a cheap thing.
Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore this should be made. Vaisnava, to become Vaisnava, is not so easy. If Vaisnava, to become Vaisnava is so easy, why so many fall down, fall down? It is not easy. The sannyasa is for the highest qualified brahmana. And simply by dressing like a Vaisnava, that is… fall down.
Hari-sauri: So the varnasrama system is like for the kanisthas, Kanistha-adhikari.
Prabhupada: Kanistha?
Hari-sauri: When one is only on the platform of neophyte.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Kanistha-adhikari, yes.
Hari-sauri: Varnasrama system is beneficial.
Prabhupada: Kanistha-adhikari means he must be a brahmana. That is kanistha-adhikari. The spiritual life, kanistha-adhikari, means he must be a qualified brahmana. That is kanistha. What is esteemed as very high position in the material world, brahmana, that is kanistha-adhikari. arcayam eva haraye pujam yah sraddhayehate na tad-bhaktesu canyesu sa bhaktah prakrtah smrtah The brahmana means from the material stage gradually he is elevated to the spiritual stage. And below the brahmana there is no question of Vaisnava.
Hari-sauri: No question of?
Prabhupada: Vaisnavism.
760206mw.may Conversations
Dayananda: But what about the persons who may be a little bit devoted but who have not achieved that unalloyed devotion?
Prabhupada: Kanistha-adhikari. They are not devotees, but they are called bhaktabhasa. There is some signs of bhakti. Actually they are not bhakta. Bhaktabhasa. Abhasa. Abhasa means a simple, a little light.
Hrdayananda: So devotee really means one who has love for Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes, unalloyed, without any condition. Anyabhilasita-sunyam, zero, all other, that “I am this, I am that, I am jnani, I am yogi, I am karmi, I am minister, I am king”–all these are thinking like that, they’re all nonsense. “I am servant of Krsna”–that is greatness. Jivera svarupa haya nitya-krsna-dasa. That is self-realization, atma-tattvam.
Madhya 20.59 Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu Instructs Sanatana Gosvami in the Science PURPORT This verse is spoken by Prahlada Maharaja in Srimad-Bhagavatam (7.9.10). A brahmana is supposed to be qualified with twelve qualities. As stated in the Mahabharata:
dharmas ca satyam ca damas tapas ca amatsaryam hris titiksanasuya yajnas ca danam ca dhrtih srutam ca vratani vai dvadasa brahmanasya
“A brahmana must be perfectly religious. He must be truthful, and he must be able to control his senses. He must execute severe austerities, and he must be detached, humble and tolerant. He must not envy anyone, and he must be expert in performing sacrifices and giving whatever he has in charity. He must be fixed in devotional service and expert in the knowledge of the Vedas. These are the twelve qualifications for a brahmana.”
Bhagavad-gita describes the brahminical qualities in this way:
samo damas tapah saucam ksantir arjavam eva ca jnanam vijnanam astikyam brahma-karma svabhava-jam
“Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness–these are the qualities by which the brahmanas work.” (Bg. 18.42)
In the Muktaphala-tika, it is said:
samo damas tapah saucam ksanty-arjava-virakta yah jnana-vijnana-santosah satyastikye dvisad gunah
“Mental equilibrium, sense control, austerity, cleanliness, tolerance, simplicity, detachment, theoretical and practical knowledge, satisfaction, truthfulness and firm faith in the Vedas are the twelve qualities of a brahmana.”
730828BG.LON Lectures
So first of all, we have to become brahmana. Then Vaisnava. Brahmana simply knows that “I am spirit soul,” aham brahmasmi. Brahma janati iti brahmana. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma. By such knowledge one becomes prasannatma. Means relieved. As you feel relief… When there is burden on your head, and the burden is taken away you feel relieved, similarly, this ignorance that “I am this body” is a great burden, a burden upon us. So when you get out of this burden, then you feel relieved. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma. Means when actually one understands that “I am not this body; I am soul,” then he has to work so hard for maintaining this body, so he gets relief that “Why I am working so hard for this lump of material things? Let me execute my real necessity of life, spiritual life.” That is great relief. That is great relief. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati. The relief means there is hankering, no more lamentation. These are the brahma-bhutah.
SB 1.2.20 P Divinity and Divine Service
The very same thing is confirmed herein in the above words. No ordinary man, or even one who has attained success in human life, can know scientifically or perfectly the Personality of Godhead. Perfection of human life is attained when one can understand that he is not the product of matter but is in fact spirit. And as soon as one understands that he has nothing to do with matter, he at once ceases his material hankerings and becomes enlivened as a spiritual being. This attainment of success is possible when one is above the modes of passion and ignorance, or, in other words, when one is actually a brahmana by qualification. A BRAHMANA IS THE SYMBOL OF SATTVA-GUNA, OR THE MODE OF GOODNESS. AND OTHERS, WHO ARE NOT IN THE MODE OF GOODNESS, ARE EITHER KSATRIYAS, VAISYAS, SUDRAS OR LESS THAN THE SUDRAS. THE BRAHMINICAL STAGE IS THE HIGHEST STAGE OF HUMAN LIFE BECAUSE OF ITS GOOD QUALITIES. SO ONE CANNOT BE A DEVOTEE UNLESS ONE AT LEAST QUALIFIES AS A BRAHMANA. The devotee is already a brahmana by action. But that is not the end of it. AS REFERRED TO ABOVE, SUCH A BRAHMANA HAS TO BECOME A VAISNAVA IN FACT TO BE ACTUALLY IN THE TRANSCENDENTAL STAGE. A PURE VAISNAVA IS A LIBERATED SOUL AND IS TRANSCENDENTAL EVEN TO THE POSITION OF A BRAHMANA. IN THE MATERIAL STAGE EVEN A BRAHMANA IS ALSO A CONDITIONED SOUL BECAUSE ALTHOUGH IN THE BRAHMINICAL STAGE THE CONCEPTION OF BRAHMAN OR TRANSCENDENCE IS REALIZED, SCIENTIFIC KNOWLEDGE OF THE SUPREME LORD IS LACKING. ONE HAS TO SURPASS THE BRAHMINICAL STAGE AND REACH THE VASUDEVA STAGE TO UNDERSTAND THE PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD KRSNA.
Rocana: Mahesh does not make a distinction between the issue of the qualifications of a bona fide spiritual master, and the fact that sastra acknowledges that there also exist kanishta and madhyam gurus. He does not distinguish between the qualifications of the uttama diksa, and the range of possibility the candidate has for the sorts of guru he might choose for himself, which includes not only uttama-diksa.
Mahesh: The “range of possibility” is non-existent. By definition ONLY Mahabhagavata is Diksa guru as described in CC Madhya 24.330
MAHĀ-BHĀGAVATA-śreṣṭho
brāhmaṇo vai gurur nṛṇām
sarveṣām eva lokānām
asau pūjyo yathā hariḥ
ahā-kula-prasūto ‘pi
sarva-yajñeṣu DĪKṢITAḤ
sahasra-śākhādhyāyī ca
na guruḥ syād avaiṣṇavaḥ
“The guru must be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service. There are three classes of devotees, and the guru MUST be accepted from the topmost class.”
The first-class devotee is the spiritual master for all kinds of people. ….When one has attained the topmost position of MAHA-BHAGAVATA, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshiped exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. ONLY SUCH A PERSON IS ELIGIBLE TO OCCUPY THE POST OF A GURU.
Rocana das is trying to juggle OUT of this in the hope that Kanistha is also some sort of Diksa guru.
Note: When Krsna comes into the heart of sincere soul AT THE STAGE OF MADHYAMA ADHIKARI BY DIKSA FROM MAHABHAGAVATA he SEES Krsna and his SVARUPA is revealed in the heart. Kanistha can NOT transfer Krsna into your heart. Madhyama is A RECIPIENT.
69-01-22. Letter: Vilasavigraha
In regard to your next question, self realization means God realization, and God realization means self realization. JUST LIKE TO SEE THE SUN MEANS TO SEE ONESELF, AND TO SEE ONESELF MEANS TO SEE THE SUN. SELF REALIZATION DEPENDS COMPLETELY UPON GOD REALIZATION, OR ELSE IT IS NOT COMPLETE. ONE MUST KNOW HIS RELATIONSHIP TO THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH TO FULLY KNOW HIS POSITION.
Note: Srila Prabhupada gives Divya-jnana(DIKSA). Divya means TRANSCENDENTAL and Jnana means KNOWLEDGE Hrde means heart and Prokasito means revealed just as in prakasa – manifested Krsna becomes manifest in the heart of the Pure Devotee.
760711CC.NY Lectures
Prabhupada: Divya-jnana hrde prokasito. What is that divya-jnana? Divya-jnana is that we are all servant of Krsna, and our only business is to serve Krsna. Divya-jnana. This is divya-jnana. It is not difficult at all. Simply we have… We have become servant of so many things–servant of society, servant of community, servant of country, servant of wife, servant of children, servant of dog and so many. “Now let me become servant of Krsna.” This is divya-jnana. Diksa. Diksa means from this divya-jnana. That is di. And ksa means ksapayati, expands.
When at the stage of Madhyama Adhikari one is RECEPIENT of THAT Diksa in the HEART from SRILA PRABHUPADA he becomes a SERVANT OF KRSNA. He relishes a particular mellow (Rasa) of his relationship with Krsna. This point HE SEES KRSNA and HIS RELATIONSHIP (svarupa) is established. So it is not so CHEAP to be Diksa guru.
Madhya 8.83 Talks Between Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Ramananda Raya
The purport in presenting this verse necessitates explaining the comparative positions of the transcendental mellows known as santa, dasya, sakhya, vatsalya and madhurya. All these rasas, or mellows, are situated on the transcendental platform. Pure devotees take shelter of one of them and thus progress in spiritual life. Actually one can take shelter of such spiritual mellows only when one is completely uncontaminated by material attachment. When one is completely free from material attachment, the feelings of the transcendental mellows are awakened in the heart of the devotee. That is svarupa-siddhi, the perfection of one’s eternal relationship with the Supreme Lord. Svarupa-siddhi, the eternal relationship with the Supreme Lord, may be situated in one of the transcendental mellows.
Note: When Krsna is TRANSFERRED FROM Pure devotees HEART to another Pure devotee then there is DIKSA. Divya jnana revealtion of ones CONSTITUTIONAL positon Svarupa is UNDERSTOOD. This may take many many many births — NOT so cheap. This is why In Guru Puja to Srila Prabhupada we sing Janme janme prabhu sei:
760805BG.PAR Lectures Prabhupada: Yes, that arrangement will be done, you go on with your business. We are singing this song daily. Why do you forget? Cakhu-dan dilo jei **janme janme prabhu sei**. ONE WHO HAS OPENED THE EYES, **HE’LL REMAIN MY MASTER LIFE AFTER LIFE**.
Note: Srila Prabhupada is WITH US TO GUIDE US through difficult journey of transmigration cycle to attaining Back to Godhead IF we follow him. Bilvamangal Thakura’s Spiritual master came thru a prostitute to deliver him so Srila Prabhupada is also SO POWERFUL to help us:
SB 3.15.24 P Description of the Kingdom of God
IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO GO BACK TO GODHEAD IN ONE LIFE, but in the human form one should at least understand the goal of life and begin Krsna consciousness.
Note: A MADHYAMA-ADHIKARI HAS RECEIVED SPIRITUAL INITIATION FROM THE SPIRITUAL MASTER AND HAS BEEN FULLY ENGAGED BY HIM IN THE TRANSCENDENTAL LOVING SERVICE OF THE LORD.** THIS IS DIKSA**.
Antya 4.192 T Sanatana Gosvami Visits the Lord at Jagannatha Puri:
DĪKṢĀ-KĀLE bhakta kare ātma-samarpaṇa sei-kāle kṛṣṇa tāre kare ātma-sama
“At the time of initiation, when a devotee fully surrenders unto the service of the Lord, Kṛṣṇa accepts him to be as good as Himself.“
Antya 4.193 Sanatana Gosvami Visits the Lord at Jagannatha Puri:
“When the devotee’s body is thus transformed into spiritual existence, the devotee, in that transcendental body, renders SERVICE to the lotus feet of the Lord.
Antya 4.194 Sanatana Gosvami Visits the Lord at Jagannatha Puri: “‘The living entity who is subjected to birth and death, when he gives up all material activities dedicating his life to Me for executing My order, and thus acts according to My direction, AT THAT TIME HE REACHES THE PLATFORM OF IMMORTALITY, AND BECOMES FIT TO ENJOY THE SPIRITUAL BLISS OF EXCHANGE OF LOVING MELLOWS WITH ME.’
NoI 5: In order to intelligently apply the sixfold loving reciprocations mentioned in the previous verse, one must select proper persons with careful discrimination. Srila Rupa Gosvami therefore advises that we should meet with the Vaisnavas in an appropriate way, according to their particular status. In this verse he tells us how to deal with three types of devotees–the kanistha-adhikari, madhyama-adhikari and uttama-adhikari.
The kanistha-adhikari is a neophyte who has received the hari-nama initiation from the spiritual master and is trying to chant the holy name of Krsna. One should respect such a person within his mind as a kanistha-vaisnava.
A MADHYAMA-ADHIKARI HAS RECEIVED SPIRITUAL INITIATION FROM THE SPIRITUAL MASTER AND HAS BEEN FULLY ENGAGED BY HIM IN THE TRANSCENDENTAL LOVING SERVICE OF THE LORD. The madhyama-adhikari should be considered to be situated MIDWAY in devotional service.
The uttama-adhikari, or highest devotee, is one who is very advanced in devotional service. An uttama-adhikari is not interested in blaspheming others, his heart is completely clean, and he has attained the realized state of unalloyed Krsna consciousness. According to Srila Rupa Gosvami, the association and service of such a maha-bhagavata, or perfect Vaisnava, are most desirable.
Note: in this Srila Prabhupada makes a point of Initiation as a formality this is different from Madhyama Adhikaris receiving Diksa
761016iv.cha Conversation
Interviewer: What is the procedure of the movement? Do you initiate yourself all the disciples or do your other disciples also do that?
Prabhupada: Well, initiation or no initiation, first thing is knowledge. (break) …knowledge. Initiation is formality. Just like you go to a school for knowledge, and admission is formality. That is not very important thing.
Whereas Srila Prabhupada DELIVERS by giving DIKSA knowledge the formality of 1st and 2nd Initiation is conducted by the Ritviks (Representatives of Acarya).
Srila Prabhupada’s introduction of Ritvik Initiations (PANCARATRIKI) is fully justified as the formalities may be changed ” can also be initiated according to circumstances.”
SB 4.8.54 Purport:
Those who are not actually in the line of acaryas, or who personally have no knowledge of how to act in the role of acarya, unnecessarily criticize the activities of the ISKCON movement in countries outside of India. The fact is that such critics cannot do anything personally to spread Krsna consciousness. If someone does go and preach, taking all risks and allowing all considerations for time and place, it might be that there are changes in the manner of worship, but that is not at all faulty according to sastra. Srimad Viraraghava Acarya, an acarya in the disciplic succession of the Ramanuja-sampradaya, has remarked in his commentary that candalas, or conditioned souls who are born in lower than sudra families, can also be initiated according to circumstances. The formalities may be slightly changed here and there to make them Vaisnavas.
68-06-12. Letter: whom it may concern
In each center we have got hundreds of disciples and followers, and our initiated disciples are strictly following the restrictions as principle, as follows: (1) no illicit sex life, (2) no intoxication, including coffee, tea, and cigarettes, (3) no gambling, (4) no meat eating. We have got both Brahmacaris and Householders as disciples, and all of them are following the above mentioned principles. THE STUDENTS AND DISCIPLES ARE INITIATED ACCORDING TO AUTHORIZED PANCARATRIKI REGULATIONS. According to Srimad-Bhagavatam and Bhagavad-gita, anyone, including so-called low born men, who may take shelter unto the Lotus Feet of Lord Krishna or His devotees, is sanctified by initiation process.
kirata-hunandhra-pulinda-pulkasa
abhira-sumbha yavanah khasadayah
ye ‘nye ca papa yad-apasrayasrayah
sudhyanti tasmai prabhavisnave namah
How such thing can be possible is explained in the Srimad-Bhagavatam that by special all-pervading power of Visnu this is possible.
721027ND.VRN Lecture
So we are trying to follow Sanatana Gosvami. By diksa-vidhanena, by imitating persons any, from anywhere. It does not matter. Because in this age, Kali-yuga, the diksa-vidhana is performed according, according to Pancaratrika-vidhi. Not Vaidika-vidhi. Vaidika-vidhi is very strict. Unless one is bona fide son of a dvija, the initiation was not given. To the sudras, there was no initiation. A brahmana ksatriya, vaisya. So these are the Vedic process. SO IN THE KALI-YUGA, BECAUSE IT IS TO BE UNDERSTOOD THAT EVERYONE IS A SUDRA, THEREFORE VAIDIKA-VIDHANA CANNOT BE APPLIED. VAIDIKA-VIDHANA REQUIRES THAT ONE MUST BE BORN BY A BRAHMANA, KSATRIYA. THEN HE’S ELIGIBLE FOR BEING INITIATED. BUT IN THE KALI-YUGA, THAT IS NOT POSSIBLE. THEREFORE THE PANCARATRIKI-VIDHI IS ACCEPTED.
Kanistha adhikari is supposed to be in the mode of Goodness Sattva guna NOT on Visuddha Sattava platform which is Pure Goodness so he can NOT give Diksa. How can a Kanistha adhikari give diksa if he himself is not free from all material contamination?
Madhya 4.111 Sri Madhavendra Puri’ s Devotional Service:
Diksa actually means initiating a disciple with transcendental knowledge by which he becomes freed from all material contamination.
Note: If Kanistha adhikari could give this Diksa to another this means there would be no material contamination at all but he cannot do this. ONLY at Madhyama adhikari stage one can be initiated with transcendental Knowledge and become freed from ALL material contamination. It is mistakenly misunderstood that even Kanistha or Madhyama adhikari give diksa this is perhaps due to the understanding they CAN accept disciples. It is NOT stating that Madhyama or Kanistha can give Diksa.
Please see the quote below:
“In this verse Srila Rupa Gosvami advises the devotee to be intelligent enough to distinguish between the kanistha-adhikari, madhyama-adhikari and the uttama-adhikari. The devotee should also know his own position and should not try to imitate a devotee situated on a higher platform. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura has given some practical hints to the effect that an uttama-adhikari Vaisnava can be recognized by his ability to convert many fallen souls to Vaisnavism. One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikari. A neophyte Vaisnava or a Vaisnava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, but such disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. THEREFORE A DISCIPLE SHOULD BE CAREFUL TO ACCEPT AN UTTAMA-ADHIKARI AS A SPIRITUALMASTER.” (Purport, Nectar of Instruction)
The 3rd Offence in chanting is to DISOBEY the Spiritual master so in EITHER case if one becomes a spiritual master without being QUALIFIED as Uttama Adhikari(Maha-Bhagavata) he will be committing offense and if he accepts one who is NOT QUALIFIED to Uttama adhikari stage he will commit offense in the chanting of the holy name. In BOTH cases their spiritual life is FINISHED!
Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya 8.274 – Talks Between Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Ramananda Raya:
sthavara-jangama dekhe, na dekhe tara murti
sarvatra haya nija ista-deva-sphurti
SYNONYMS sthavara-jangama–movable and inert; dekhe–he sees; na–not; dekhe–sees; tara–its; murti–form; sarvatra–everywhere; haya–there is; nija–his own; ista-deva–worshipable Lord; sphurti–manifestation.
TRANSLATION “The maha-bhagavata, the advanced devotee, certainly sees everything mobile and immobile, but he does not exactly see their forms. Rather, everywhere he immediately SEES manifest the form of the Supreme Lord.
PURPORT Due to his deep ecstatic love for Krsna, the maha-bhagavata SEES Krsna everywhere and nothing else. This is confirmed in the Brahma-samhita (5.38): premanjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santah sadaiva hrdayesu vilokayanti.
As soon as a devotee sees something–be it movable or inert–he immediately remembers Krsna.”
NoD 8 Offenses to Be Avoided
The offenses against the chanting of the holy name are as follows: (3) To disobey the orders of the spiritual master.
Note: Diksa is illustrated graphically here Vasudeva was on Suddha sattva platform this is why from him Krsna is transferred to Devaki
SB 10.2.18 Prayers by the Demigods for Lord Krsna in the Womb:
Thereafter, accompanied by plenary expansions, the fully opulent Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is all-auspicious for the entire universe, was transferred from the mind of Vasudeva to the mind of Devaki. Devaki, having thus been initiated by Vasudeva, became beautiful by carrying Lord Krsna, the original consciousness for everyone, the cause of all causes, within the core of her heart, just as the east becomes beautiful by carrying the rising moon.
PURPORT: As indicated here by the word manastah, the Supreme Personality of Godhead was transferred from the core of Vasudeva’s mind or heart to the core of the heart of Devaki. We should note carefully that the Lord was transferred to Devaki not by the ordinary way for a human being, but by diksa, initiation. Thus the importance of initiation is mentioned here. Unless one is initiated by the right person, who always carries within his heart the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one cannot acquire the power to carry the Supreme Godhead within the core of one’s own heart.
SB 8.5.29 P The Demigods Appeal to the Lord for Protection:
Sattvam visuddham vasudeva-sabditam (Bhag. 4.3.23). In this material world, the three modes of material nature–goodness, passion and ignorance–prevail. Among these three, goodness is the platform of knowledge, and passion brings about a mixture of knowledge and ignorance, but the mode of ignorance is full of darkness. Therefore the Supreme Personality of Godhead is beyond darkness and passion. He is on the platform where goodness or knowledge is not disturbed by passion and ignorance. This is called the vasudeva platform. It is on this platform of vasudeva that Vasudeva, or Krsna, can appear.
SB 5.3.20 P Rsabhadeva’ s Appearance in the Womb of Merudevi, the Wife of King Nabhi:
Lord Visnu descends in His suddha-sattva form. Suddha-sattva refers to the sattva-guna which is never contaminated. In this material world, even the mode of goodness (sattva-guna) is contaminated by tinges of rajo-guna and tamo-guna. When sattva-guna is never contaminated by rajo-guna and tamo-guna, it is called suddha-sattva. Sattvam visuddham vasudeva-sabditam (Bhag. 4.3.23). That is the platform of vasudeva, whereby the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Vasudeva, can be experienced.
Note: Karma is taken by UTTAMA-ADHAKARI. Only he can DELIVER by definition. ‘uttama-adhikārī’ sei tāraye saṁsāra
Madhya 22.65 The Process of Devotional Service:
śāstra-yuktye sunipuṇa, dṛḍha-śraddhā yāṅra
‘uttama-adhikārī’ sei tāraye saṁsāra
SYNONYMS: uttama-adhikārī—the topmost devotee; sei—he; tāraye saṁsāra—can deliver the whole world.
Srila Prabhupada delivers. He GIVES Diksa. Formalities of initiation are done by his Ritvik Representatives.
Srila Prabhupada: “continue to become ritvik and act on my behalf.” (July 31, 1977)
Letter July 9th: Srila Prabhupada indicated that soon He would appoint some of His senior disciples to act as ritvik – representative of the acarya, for the purpose of performing initiations, both first initiation and second initiation. Now that Srila Prabhupada has named these representatives, Temple Presidents may henceforward send recommendation for first and second initiation to whichever of these eleven representatives are nearest their temple. After considering the recommendation, these representatives may accept the devotee as an initiated disciple of Srila Prabhupada by giving a spiritual name, or in the case of second initiation, by chanting on the Gayatri thread, just as Srila Prabhupada has done. The newly initiated devotees are disciples of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupad, the above eleven senior devotees acting as His representative.
Note the word *representative* indicated below which was also mentioned in July 9th 1977 directive.
Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya 24.330: “Similarly, a disciple’s qualifications must be observed by the spiritual master before he is accepted as a disciple. In our Krsna consciousness movement, the requirement is that one must be prepared to give up the four pillars of sinful life-illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication and gambling. In Western countries especially, we first observe whether a potential disciple is prepared to follow the regulative principles. Then he is given the name of a Vaisnava servant and initiated to chant the Hare Krsna maha-mantra, at least sixteen rounds daily. In this way the disciple renders devotional service under the guidance of the spiritual master or his representative for at least six months to a year. He is then recommended for a second initiation, during which a sacred thread is offered and the disciple is accepted as a bona fide brahmana.”
Note: we know that without becoming a Maha-bhagavata it is an offense against the chanting of the holy name (3rd offense in chanting) to be worshipped as good as God (Acarya). Ritvik –the representative of the acarya allows for this function of worshipping the acarya (Prabhupada) without slaughtering the spiritual lives of others.
“When one has attained the topmost position of maha-bhagavata, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshiped exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. Only such a person is eligible to occupy the post of a guru.”
Srila Prabhupada is revealing his position as the Jagad-guru (Spiritual Master of the entire world). It is Srila Prabhupada that has distributed the Holy Name (thru his books) all over the world. Krishna is His pure devotee Prabhupada’s property to give.
Caitanya-caritamrta, Antya 7.12: “Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura explains that unless one is directly empowered by the causeless mercy of Kṛṣṇa, one cannot become the spiritual master of the entire world (jagad-guru). One cannot become an ācārya simply by mental speculation. The true ācārya presents Kṛṣṇa to everyone by preaching the holy name of the Lord throughout the world. Thus the conditioned souls, purified by chanting the holy name, are liberated from the blazing fire of material existence. In this way, spiritual benefit grows increasingly full, like the waxing moon in the sky. The true ācārya, the spiritual master of the entire world, must be considered an incarnation of Kṛṣṇa’s mercy. indeed, he is personally embracing Kṛṣṇa. HE IS THEREFORE THE SPIRITUAL MASTER OF ALL THE VARṆAS (BRĀHMAṆA, KṢATRIYA, VAIŚYA AND ŚŪDRA) AND ALL THE ĀŚRAMAS (BRAHMACARYA, GṚHASTHA, VĀNAPRASTHA AND SANNYĀSA). SINCE HE IS UNDERSTOOD TO BE THE MOST ADVANCED DEVOTEE, HE IS CALLED PARAMAHAṀSA-ṬHĀKURA. ṬHĀKURA IS A TITLE OF HONOR OFFERED TO THE PARAMAHAṀSA. THEREFORE ONE WHO ACTS AS AN ĀCĀRYA, DIRECTLY PRESENTING LORD KṚṢṆA BY SPREADING HIS NAME AND FAME, IS ALSO TO BE CALLED PARAMAHAṀSA-ṬHĀKURA.“
This July 9th 1977 letter was never revoked by Srila Prabhupada. This being the case, all the newly initiated devotees are disciples of his Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada for as long as ISKCON exists.
July 11th, 1977 – “A letter has been sent to all the Temple Presidents and GBC which you should be receiving soon describing the process for initiation to be followed in the future. Srila Prabhupada has appointed thus far eleven representatives who will initiate new devotees on His behalf.”
(Letter from Tamala Krishna Goswami to Kirtananda describing the above system) July 19th, 1977 – “Make your own field and continue to be Ritvik and act on my charge.” (Room Conversation, above dictated by Srila Prabhupada to his secretary Tamala Krishna Goswami)
July 31st, 1977 – “Make your own field and continue to become ritvik and act on my behalf.”
(Above dictation sent out to Hamsaduta by Tamala Krishna in a letter) Nov 1977 – “The system of management will continue as it is now and there is no need of any change.”
(Srila Prabhupada’s Last Will and Testament, which now comes into force for the lifetime of ISKCON)
Nov 1977 – “In the event of death or failure to act for any reason of any of the said directors, a successor director or directors may be appointed by the remaining directors, provided the new director is my initiated disciple …”
(Srila Prabhupada’s Last Will and Testament, which now comes into force for the lifetime of ISKCON. The above system of selecting directors can only work if Srila Prabhupada’s initiated disciples exist throughout ISKCON’s lifetime.)
1) WHY did Srila Prabhupada ARRANGE to have his OWN murti in ALL the temples in ISKCON for worshiping during Guru Puja UNLESS he was GIVER OF the DIVYA Jnana hrdaya prakasito HE GIVES DIVYA JNANA (DIKSA) ONLY a MAHABHAGAVATA is accepted as Worshipable Diksa Guru as per Caitanya Caritamrta Madhya 24.330. Srila Prabhuapada is THE ACARYA of ISKCON.
NOTE: It is ONLY ACARYA that can give DIKSA because even in NOD this is stated REGARDING ACCEPTING INITIATION from the spiritual master it refers to SB 11.17.27 which is ACARYA.
Nectar of Devotion 7 — Evidence Regarding Devotional Principles
REGARDING ACCEPTING INITIATION from the spiritual master, in the Eleventh Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam, Seventeenth Chapter, verse 27, it is stated by Lord Krsna, “My dear Uddhava, the spiritual master must be accepted not only as My representative, but as My very self. He must never be considered on the same level with an ordinary human being. One should never be envious of the spiritual master, as one may be envious of an ordinary man. The spiritual master should always be seen as the representative of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and by serving the spiritual master one is able to serve all the demigods.”
Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.7.15 Purport — Indra Offends His Spiritual Master, Brhaspati:
“By the mercy of the spiritual master one is benedicted by the mercy of Krsna. Without the grace of the spiritual master, one cannot make any advancement.” A disciple should never be a hypocrite or be unfaithful to his spiritual master. In Srimad-Bhagavatam (11.17.27), THE SPIRITUAL MASTER IS ALSO CALLED ACARYA. Acaryam mam vijaniyan: the Supreme Personality of Godhead says that one should respect the spiritual master, accepting him as the Lord Himself. Navamanyeta karhicit: one should not disrespect the acarya at any time. Na martya-buddhyasuyeta: one should never think the acarya an ordinary person. Familiarity sometimes breeds contempt, but one should be very careful in one’s dealings with the acarya. Agadha-dhisanam dvijam: the acarya is a perfect brahmana and has unlimited intelligence in guiding the activities of his disciple.
2) Srila Prabhupada put it DELIBERATELY in all his books FOUNDER-ACARYA. Srila Prabhupada did NOT say he was only ISKCON founder. There is HYPHEN in between the words Founder AND Acarya which indicates HE IS ALSO ITS CURRENT ACARYA.
3) There is ALSO the FACT that ONLY INITIATED DISCIPLE will be Director. This means HE wanted to REMAIN the INITIATOR for the EXISTENCE of the society: Other WILL Srila Prabhupada’s Will The executive directors who have herein been designated are appointed for life. In the event of death or failure to act for any reason of any of the said directors, a successor director or directors may be appointed by the remaining directors, provided the new director is MY INITIATED DISCIPLE following strictly all the rules and regulations of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness as detailed in my books, and provided that there are never less than three (3) or more than five (5) exeutive directors acting at one time.
4) 75-08-04. Letter: Madhudvisa: The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I AM IN THE INITIATOR GURU, and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This I want.
680312iv.sf Conversations Prabhupada: Yes, I AM the spiritual master of this institution, and ALL the members of the society, they’re supposed to be MY disciples. They follow the rules and regulations which I ask them to follow, and they are initiated by me spiritually. So therefore the spiritual master is called guru. That is Sanskrit language.
5) Disciple belongs to whoever gives DISCIPLINE TO him: In ISKCON we are ALL being DISCIPLINED by Srila Prabhupada (we receive instructions (DISCIPLINE) FROM Srila Prabhupada’s books. Even the most basic discipline, 16 rounds of Hare Krishna Mantra and four Regulative Principles are coming FROM Srila Prabhupada. Common sense — if you ARE being disciplined BY Srila Prabhupada then it follows you ARE Srila Prabhupada’s disciple. How can it be otherwise?
The MEANING of the word “disciple”
Srila Prabhupada’s Morning Walk, March 8, 1976 in Mayapur:
Prabhupada: “Discipline… Disciple means discipline. The word discipline comes from disciple, or disciple comes from discipline. So unless there is discipline, there is no question of disciple. This discipline must… That should be uniform. Otherwise, sisya… sisya, the word sisya, it comes from the root, verb, sas-dhatu. sas. sas means ruling. From this word, sasana. Sasana means government. sastra. sashtra means weapon, and sastra, scripture, and sisya… These things have come from the one root sas-dhatu. So sas-dhatu means ruling under discipline. There is another English word, that “Obedience is the first law of discipline,” or something. They say, “Obedience is the first law of discipline”? So I am right? “Obedience is…”? That is the…
Tamala Krsna: Yes, that’s more or less what it is.
Prabhupada: No, what is the word, exact. There is an English word. “Obedience is the first law of discipline.” So unless there is obedience, there cannot be any discipline. And unless there is discipline, there is no question of disciple. DISCIPLE MEANS ONE WHO FOLLOWS DISCIPLINE.”
Discipline comes from Srila Prabhupada. We are actually being disciplined by Srila Prabhupada. It is Srila Prabhupada who has given us the regulative principles of no meat, fish or eggs; no intoxication (including tea and coffee), no illicit sex, and no gambling. It is Srila Prabhupada who has made it a regulative principle for us to chant sixteen rounds on the beads HARE KRSNA HARE KRSNA KRSNA KRSNA HARE HARE /HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE.
Srila Prabhupada’s books contain all the instructions, the guidance required for us to get ourselves out of the clutches of the modes of material nature. In fact, Srila Prabhupada is personally present as his books.
Caitanya-caritamra, Adi 1, Text 35: “There is NO DIFFERENCE between the spiritual masters instructions and the spiritual master himself.”
Since the instructions of the spiritual master and the spiritual master are not different, one can be the disciple of Srila Prabhupada by following his discipline and can be considered Srila Prabhupada’s disciple. Another point is he can be considered both direct disciple and not direct simultaneously, because Srila Prabhupada is still present in his instruction form (his books). The following example will illustrate the point.
Srila Krsnadasa kaviraja is the example of both direct and not direct disciple simultaneously. (THE PHILOSOPHY OF SIMULTANEOUS ONENESS AND DIFFERENCE).
Caitanya-caritamra, Adi 1: “A direct disciple of Srila Rupa Gosvami was Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami. The author of Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami, stands as the DIRECT DISCIPLE of Srila Rupa Gosvami and Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami. The direct disciple of Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami was Srila Narottama dasa Thakura, who accepted Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti as his servitor. Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura accepted Srila Jagannatha dasa Babaji, who initiated Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, who in turn initiated Srila Gaurakishore dasa Babaji, the spiritual master of Om Visnupada Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja, the divine master of our humble self. Since we belong to this chain of disciplic succession from Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, this edition of Sri Caitanya-caritamrta will contain nothing newly manufactured by our tiny brains, but only remnants of food originally eaten by the Lord Himself.”
Caitanya-caritamra, Antya 19.102: Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami was not actually a direct disciple of Srila Rupa Gosvami, but he FOLLOWED THE INSTRUCTIONS given by Srila Rupa Gosvami in Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu. He therefore ACTED ACCORDING TO THE DIRECTIONS of Rupa Gosvami and prayed in every chapter for his mercy.
6) Note: It is SUCCESSION MEANS to SUCCEED Srila Prabhupada is the LAST name in Disciplic Succession of ACARYAS: SB 3.29.17 P Explanation of Devotional Service by Lord Kapila In Bhagavad-gita, Thirteenth Chapter, it is clearly stated that one should execute devotional service and advance on the path of spiritual knowledge BY ACCEPTING THE ACARYA. Acaryopasanam: one should worship an acarya, a spiritual master who knows things as they are. THE SPIRITUAL MASTER MUST BE IN THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION FROM KRSNA. THE PREDECESSORS OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER ARE HIS SPIRITUAL MASTER, HIS GRAND SPIRITUAL MASTER, HIS GREAT-GRAND SPIRITUAL MASTER AND SO ON, WHO FORM THE DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION OF ACARYAS.
68-02-13. Letter: Upendra
My Guru Maharaja was in the 10th generation from Lord Caitanya. We are 11th from Lord Caitanya. The disciplic sucession is as follows: 1. Sri Krishna, 2. Brahma, 3. Narada, 4. Vyasa, 5. Madhva, 6. Padmanabha, 7. Nrihari, 8. Madhava, 9. Akshobhya, 10. Jayatirtha, 11. Jnanasindhu, 12. Purusottama, 13. Vidyanidhi, 14. Rajendra, 15. Jayadharma, 16. Purusottama, 17. Vyasatirtha, 18. Laksmipati, 19. Madhavendra Puri, 20. Isvara Puri (Advaita, Nityananda) 21. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, 22. (Svarupa, Sanatana) Rupa, 23.(Jiva) Raghunath, 24. Krishna dasa, 25. Narottama, 26. Visvanatha, 27. (Baladeva.) Jagannatha, 28. (Bhaktivinode) Gaura-kisora, 29. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, Sri Barshabhanavidayitadas, 30. SRI SRIMAD BHAKTIVEDANTA.
7) Note: It is ONLY Srila Prabhupada that fulfills the WORLD ACARYA position: Madhya 25.9 How All the Residents of Varanasi Became Vaisnavas “In Dvapara-yuga, devotees of Lord Visnu and Krsna rendered devotional service according to the principles of pancaratrika. In this Age of Kali, the Supreme Personality of Godhead is worshiped simply by the chanting of His holy names.» Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura then comments: “Without being empowered by the direct potency of Lord Krsna to fulfill His desire and without being specifically favored by the Lord, NO HUMAN BEING CAN BECOME THE SPIRITUAL MASTER OF THE WHOLE WORLD. He certainly cannot succeed by mental concoction, which is not meant for devotees or religious people. Only an empowered personality can distribute the holy name of the Lord and enjoin all fallen souls to worship Krsna. By distributing the holy name of the Lord, he cleanses the hearts of the most fallen people; therefore he extinguishes the blazing fire of the material world. Not only that, he broadcasts the shining brightness of Krsna’s effulgence throughout the world. Such an acarya, or spiritual master, should be considered nondifferent from Krsna-that is, he should be considered the incarnation of Lord Krsna’s potency. Such a personality is krsnalingita-vigraha-that is, he is always embraced by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna. Such a person is above the considerations of the varnasrama institution. HE IS THE GURU OR SPIRITUAL MASTER FOR THE ENTIRE WORLD, A DEVOTEE ON THE TOPMOST PLATFORM, THE MAHA-BHAGAVATA STAGE, AND A PARAMAHAMSA-THAKURA, A SPIRITUAL FORM ONLY FIT TO BE ADDRESSED AS PARAMAHAMSA OR THAKURA.”
8) Note: ONLY Srila Prabhupada will lay claim to be PROMINENT ACARYA to be FOLLOWED because of his books,cds,tapes, disciples, temples so extensive over the world for FUTURE generations OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS:
68-04-12. Letter: Dayananda Regarding parampara system: THERE IS NOTHING TO WONDER FOR BIG GAPS. Just like we belong to the Brahma Sampradaya, so we accept it from Krishna to Brahma, Brahma to Narada, Narada to Vyasadeva, Vyasadeva to Madhva, and between Vyasadeva and Madhva there is a big gap. But it is sometimes said that Vyasadeva is still living, and Madhva was fortunate enough to meet him directly. In a similar way, we find in the Bhagavad-gita that the Gita was taught to the sungod, some millions of years ago, but Krishna has mentioned only three names in this parampara system–namely, Vivasvan, Manu, and Iksvaku; and SO THESE GAPS DO NOT HAMPER FROM UNDERSTANDING THE PARAMPARA SYSTEM. WE HAVE TO PICK UP THE PROMINENT ACARYA, AND FOLLOW FROM HIM. There are many branches also from the parampara system, and it is not possible to record all the branches and sub-branches in the disciplic succession. WE HAVE TO PICK UP FROM THE AUTHORITY OF THE ACHARYA IN WHATEVER SAMPRADAYA WE BELONG TO.
9) Note: the Hare Krsna mantra is PURE DEVOTEE Srila Prabhupada’s Property to give and July 9th 1977 ORDER is simply discharge MANAGEMENT DUTY of giving conditioned souls Ritviks the privilege OF SERVICE to give Holy Name on BEHALF of PURE devotee Srila Prabhupada. The holy name is NOT conditioned souls property this is WHY it is given ON BEHALF of Srila Prabhupada:
SB 7.9.42 P Prahlada Pacifies Lord Nrsimhadeva with Prayers
Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura also sings, tumi ta’ thakura, tomara kukura, baliya janaha more: “O my Lord, O Vaisnava, please consider me your dog.” One must become the dog of a Vaisnava, A PURE DEVOTEE, FOR A PURE DEVOTEE CAN DELIVER KRSNA WITHOUT DIFFICULTY. KRSNA SE TOMARA, KRSNA DITE PARA. KRSNA IS THE PROPERTY OF HIS PURE DEVOTEE, AND IF WE TAKE SHELTER OF A PURE DEVOTEE, HE CAN DELIVER KRSNA VERY EASILY.
10) Note: the Ritvik System is SYSTEM OF MANAGEMENT so the issue of HOLY NAME to be given on BEHALF of Srila Prabhupada the PURE devotee MUST continue as per Srila Prabhupada’s ORDER: Other WILL Srila Prabhupada’s Will 2. Each temple will be an ISKCON property and will be managed by three executive directors. THE SYSTEM OF MANAGEMENT WILL CONTINUE AS IT IS NOW AND THERE IS NO NEED OF ANY CHANGE.
11) Note: ONE INITIATOR Srila Prabhupada.There may be many spiritual masters who instruct, but the initiator spiritual master is one. Holy Name is given ON BEHALF of Srila Prabhupada by Ritvik REPRESENTATIVES:
KB 80 The Meeting of Lord Krsna with Sudama Brahmana
Our next spiritual master is he who initiates us into transcendental knowledge, and he is to be worshiped as much as I am. The spiritual master may be more than one. The spiritual master who instructs the disciples about spiritual matters is called siksa-guru, and the spiritual master who initiates the disciple is called diksa-guru. Both of them are My representatives. THERE MAY BE MANY SPIRITUAL MASTERS WHO INSTRUCT, BUT THE INITIATOR SPIRITUAL MASTER IS ONE.
12) Note: ONLY the Mahabhagavata Srila Prabhupada is to be ACCEPTED as Diksa Guru otherwise it is 3rd OFFENSE in chanting: NoD 8 Offenses to Be Avoided The offenses against the chanting of the holy name are as follows: (3) TO DISOBEY THE ORDERS OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER.
Madhya 24.330 The Sixty-One Explanations of the Atmarama Verse
MAHA-BHAGAVATA-srestho
brahmano vai gurur nrnam
sarvesam eva lokanam
asau pujyo yatha harih
maha-kula-prasuto ‘pi
sarva-yajnesu diksitah
sahasra-sakhadhyayi ca
na guruh syad avaisnavah
((The guru MUST be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service. There are three classes of devotees, and the guru MUST be accepted from the topmost class. The first-class devotee is the spiritual master for all kinds of people.
Purport: ”When one has attained the topmost position of maha-bhagavata, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshiped exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. ONLY SUCH A PERSON IS ELIGIBLE TO OCCUPY THE POST OF A GURU.))”
Diksa Process: 1ST AND 2ND INITIATIONS GIVEN ON BEHALF OF SRILA PRABHUPADA THE -ONE- INITIATOR BY THE (RITVIK) REPRESENTATIVE :
13) Note: OR HIS REPRESENTATIVE is the Ritvik Representative as per July 9th 1977 Order
Madhya 24.330 The Sixty-One Explanations of the Atmarama Verse
Similarly, a disciple’s qualifications must be observed by the spiritual master before he is accepted as a disciple. IN OUR KRSNA CONSCIOUSNESS MOVEMENT, THE REQUIREMENT IS THAT ONE MUST BE PREPARED TO GIVE UP THE FOUR PILLARS OF SINFUL LIFE-ILLICIT SEX, MEAT-EATING, INTOXICATION AND GAMBLING. IN WESTERN COUNTRIES ESPECIALLY, WE FIRST OBSERVE WHETHER A POTENTIAL DISCIPLE IS PREPARED TO FOLLOW THE REGULATIVE PRINCIPLES. THEN HE IS GIVEN THE NAME OF A VAISNAVA SERVANT AND INITIATED TO CHANT THE HARE KRSNA MAHA-MANTRA, AT LEAST SIXTEEN ROUNDS DAILY. In this way the disciple renders devotional service under the guidance of the spiritual master OR HIS REPRESENTATIVE FOR AT LEAST SIX MONTHS TO A YEAR. HE IS THEN RECOMMENDED FOR A SECOND INITIATION, DURING WHICH A SACRED THREAD IS OFFERED AND THE DISCIPLE IS ACCEPTED AS A BONA FIDE BRAHMANA.
14) Note: Ritvik can be replaced if he has a falldown:
770528me.vrn Conversations Tamala Krsna: Of course, IF SOMEONE HAS A FALLDOWN, just like in the past some GBC men have fallen down… Prabhupada: HE SHOULD BE REPLACED. Tamala Krsna: Then he should be replaced. But that’s a serious falldown, not some minor discrepancy. Prabhupada: THEY MUST BE ALL IDEAL ACARYA-LIKE. IN THE BEGINNING WE HAVE DONE FOR WORKING. Now we should be very cautious. ANYONE WHO IS DEVIATING, HE CAN BE REPLACED.
Note: Srila Prabhupada is the ONE initiatior:
Adi 1.99 The Spiritual Masters One of the bhagavatas is the great scripture Srimad-Bhagavatam, and the other is the pure devotee absorbed in the mellows of loving devotion.
Adi 1.100 The Spiritual Masters Through the actions of THESE TWO BHAGAVATAS THE LORD INSTILLS THE MELLOWS OF TRANSCENDENTAL LOVING SERVICE INTO THE HEART OF A LIVING BEING, and thus the Lord, in the heart of His devotee, comes under the control of the devotee’s love.
Note: Does it say VAPU is the requirement – NO! Vapuvadis have CONCOCTED you need VAPU for transmission of DIKSA
SB 1.7.22 P The Son of Drona Punished
The spiritual master, BY HIS WORDS, CAN PENETRATE INTO THE HEART OF THE SUFFERING PERSON AND INJECT KNOWLEDGE TRANSCENDENTAL, which alone can extinguish the fire of material existence.
Adi 1.35 The Spiritual Masters
THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SPIRITUAL MASTER’S INSTRUCTIONS AND THE SPIRITUAL MASTER HIMSELF. In his absence, therefore, his words of direction should be the pride of the disciple.
690113LE.LA Lectures
Similarly, arcye sila-dhir gurusu na… Gurusu means those who are acaryas, to accept their body as ordinary man’s body, this is denied in the sastras. SO ALTHOUGH A PHYSICAL BODY IS NOT PRESENT, THE VIBRATION SHOULD BE ACCEPTED AS THE PRESENCE OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER, VIBRATION. WHAT WE HAVE HEARD FROM THE SPIRITUAL MASTER, THAT IS LIVING.
Note: ONE INITIATOR Srila Prabhupada.There may be many spiritual masters who instruct, but the initiator spiritual master is one.
KB 80 The Meeting of Lord Krsna with Sudama Brahmana
Our next spiritual master is he who initiates us into transcendental knowledge, and he is to be worshiped as much as I am. The spiritual master may be more than one. The spiritual master who instructs the disciples about spiritual matters is called siksa-guru, and the spiritual master who initiates the disciple is called diksa-guru. Both of them are My representatives. There may be many spiritual masters who instruct, BUT THE INITIATOR SPIRITUAL MASTER IS ONE.
SRILA PRABHUPADA IS OUR CURRENT LINK
SB 2.9.8: THE POTENCY OF TRANSCENDENTAL SOUND IS NEVER MINIMIZED BECAUSE THE VIBRATOR IS APPARENTLY ABSENT. Therefore SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM or Bhagavad-gitä or any revealed scripture in the world is never to be accepted as an ordinary mundane sound without transcendental potency.
Srila Prabhupada and his words are on the transcendental platform therefore his PURPORTS to the SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM is the CURRENT LINK. AS LONG AS WE HAVE PRABHUPADA’S PURPORTS TO THE SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM HE WILL BE OUR CURRENT LINK BECAUSE **THE REAL** MESSAGE OF SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM ARE **HIS** PURPORTS.
Note: Srila Prabhupada’s words of direction ARE HIS PURPORTS AND There is NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SPIRITUAL MASTER’S INSTRUCTIONS AND THE SPIRITUAL MASTER HIMSELF.
ADI 1.35: There is NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SPIRITUAL MASTER’S INSTRUCTIONS AND THE SPIRITUAL MASTER HIMSELF. In his absence, THEREFORE, HIS WORDS OF DIRECTION SHOULD BE THE PRIDE OF THE DISCIPLE.
Note: the CURRENT LINK is Srila Prabhupada’s Srimad Bhagavatam PURPORTS – Srila Prabhupada is NOT different from his purports:
SB 2.9.7 As already stated, Brahmä is the original spiritual master for the universe, and since he was initiated by the Lord Himself, the MESSAGE OF SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM IS COMING DOWN BY DISCIPLIC SUCCESSION, and in order to receive THE REAL MESSAGE OF SRIMAD-BHAGAVATAM one should approach THE CURRENT LINK, or spiritual master, in the chain of disciplic succession.
73-12-25.Letter: Gurukrpa , Yasodanandana
Whatever is to be learned of the teachings of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura can be learned from our books. THERE IS NO NEED WHATSOEVER FOR ANY OUTSIDE INSTRUCTION.
74-11-22. Letter: Bahurupa
I am pleased to hear that you are chanting 16 rounds daily and reading my books regularly and following the four rules. IN MY BOOKS THE PHILOSOPHY OF KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS IS EXPLAINED FULLY SO IF THERE IS ANYTHING WHICH YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND, THEN YOU SIMPLY HAVE TO READ AGAIN AND AGAIN. BY READING DAILY THE KNOWLEDGE WILL BE REVEALED TO YOU AND BY THIS PROCESS YOUR SPIRITUAL LIFE WILL DEVELOP.
75-09-18. Letter: Babhru, Satyaki
PLEASE CONTINUE READING MY BOOKS SERIOUSLY AND EVERYTHING WILL BE REVEALED TO YOU.
74-11-22. Letter: Hugo Salemon
So far your worship of Lord Jagannatha in your home and your becoming initiated. It is alright provided you have the recommendation of the temple president. I am very glad to see that such a young boy as yourself you are taking serious interest in this Krishna Consciousness Movement. Please continue in this way Our process is something universal. It cannot be checked by any means. Anyone in any place, in any country can chant Hare Krishna. If it is possible to go to the temple, then take advantage of the temple. A temple is a place where by one is given the opportunity to render direct devotional service to the Supreme Lord Sri Krishna. IN CONJUNCTION WITH THIS YOU SHOULD ALWAYS READ MY BOOKS DAILY AND ALL YOUR QUESTIONS WILL BE ANSWERED AND YOU WILL HAVE A FIRM BASIS OF KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS. IN THIS WAY YOUR LIFE WILL BE PERFECT.
730513mw.la Conversations
Paramahamsa: Srila Prabhupada, when you are not present with us, how is it possible to receive instructions, for example, on questions that may arise?
Prabhupada: Well, the questions… ANSWERS ARE THERE IN MY BOOKS.
Paramahamsa: Other than that, for example, that we would ask you in…
Prabhupada: Yes.
Paramahamsa: DO YOU DIRECT US ALSO THROUGH THE HEART? BESIDES THE PARAMATMA?
Prabhupada: IF YOUR HEART IS PURE. EVERYTHING DEPENDS ON PURITY.
740615rc.par Conversations
Yogesvara: “Is there some, any qualities, in the sense that some people have more receptivity towards the divine than other people?”
Prabhupada: Yes. That I explained, sattva-guna, rajo-guna, tamo-guna. Those who are in sattva-guna, they can understand easily. Those who are in rajo-guna, they have got difficulty. AND THOSE WHO ARE IN TAMO-GUNA, THEY CANNOT. (French)
Conclusion:
75-08-04. Letter: Madhudvisa:
The GBC should all be the instructor gurus. I AM IN THE INITIATOR GURU, and you should be the instructor guru by teaching what I am teaching and doing what I am doing. This is not a title, but you must actually come to this platform. This I want.
“I AM THE SPIRITUAL MASTER OF THIS INSTITUTION, AND ALL THE MEMBERS OF THE SOCIETY, THEY’RE SUPPOSED TO BE MY DISCIPLES. They follow the rules and regulations which I ask them to follow, AND THEY ARE INITIATED BY ME SPIRITUALLY.”(Srila Prabhupada Radio Interview, 12/3/1968)
“Guru-mukha-padma-vakya, cittete koriya aikya, ara na koriho mane asa. Don’t think of any nonsense. Simply execute what your guru has said. That is success.”
(28th January, 1977, Room Conversation)
“We request you to chant HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA, KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE, HARE RAMA HARE RAMA, RAMA RAMA HARE HARE, and your life will be sublime.”
ys Mahesh
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/news/?p=41422
Note: Rupanuga das and gbc company went to Srila Prabhupada’s godbrother, Sridhar Maharaja, to get their guruship licence.This is just how ENVIOUS these people were. Otherwise, they KNEW that nobody would believe them. So—– they wanted to USE conditioned soul Sridhar Maharaja as TOOL for their trade of operating as diksa gurus. THIS is WHY they were advertising Sridhar Maharaja as advisor.
However, Srila Prabhupada’s Spiritual Master Acarya position is ingrained IN his books:
“One should NOT ENVY him, thinking him an ordinary man,……”
“The SPIRITUAL MASTER is ALSO CALLED ācārya, or a transcendental professor of spiritual science. The Manu-saṁhitā (2.140) explains the duties of an ācārya, describing that a bona fide spiritual master accepts charge of disciples, teaches them the Vedic knowledge with all its intricacies, and gives them their second birth.”
CC Adi 1.46
TEXT 46
ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān
nāvamanyeta karhicit
na martya-buddhyāsūyeta
sarva-deva-mayo guruḥ
SYNONYMS
ācāryam—the spiritual master; mām—Myself; vijānīyāt—one should know; na avamanyeta—one should never disrespect; karhicit—at any time; na—never; martya-buddhyā—with the idea of his being an ordinary man; asūyeta—one should be envious; sarva-deva—of all demigods; mayaḥ—representative; guruḥ—the spiritual master.
TRANSLATION
“One should know the ācārya as Myself and never disrespect him in any way. One should not envy him, thinking him an ordinary man, for he is the representative of all the demigods.”
PURPORT
This is a verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (SB 11.17.27) spoken by Lord Kṛṣṇa when He was questioned by Uddhava regarding the four social and spiritual orders of society. He was specifically instructing how a brahmacārī should behave under the care of a spiritual master. A spiritual master is not an enjoyer of facilities offered by his disciples. He is like a parent. Without the attentive service of his parents, a child cannot grow to manhood; similarly, without the care of the spiritual master one cannot rise to the plane of transcendental service.
The spiritual master is also called ācārya, or a transcendental professor of spiritual science. The Manu-saṁhitā (2.140) explains the duties of an ācārya, describing that a bona fide spiritual master accepts charge of disciples, teaches them the Vedic knowledge with all its intricacies, and gives them their second birth. The ceremony performed to initiate a disciple into the study of spiritual science is called upanīti, or the function that brings one nearer to the spiritual master. One who cannot be brought nearer to a spiritual master cannot have a sacred thread, and thus he is indicated to be a śūdra. The sacred thread on the body of a brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya or vaiśya is a symbol of initiation by the spiritual master; it is worth nothing if worn merely to boast of high parentage. The duty of the spiritual master is to initiate a disciple with the sacred thread ceremony, and after this saṁskāra, or purificatory process, the spiritual master actually begins to teach the disciple about the Vedas. A person born a śūdra is not barred from such spiritual initiation, provided he is approved by the spiritual master, who is duly authorized to award a disciple the right to be a brāhmaṇa if he finds him perfectly qualified. In the Vāyu Purāṇa an ācārya is defined as one who knows the import of all Vedic literature, explains the purpose of the Vedas, abides by their rules and regulations, and teaches his disciples to act in the same way.
Only out of His immense compassion does the Personality of Godhead reveal Himself as the spiritual master. Therefore in the dealings of an ācārya there are no activities but those of transcendental loving service to the Lord. He is the Supreme Personality of Servitor Godhead. It is worthwhile to take shelter of such a steady devotee, who is called āśraya-vigraha, or the manifestation or form of the Lord of whom one must take shelter.
If one poses himself as an ācārya but does not have an attitude of servitorship to the Lord, he must be considered an offender, and this offensive attitude disqualifies him from being an ācārya. The bona fide spiritual master always engages in unalloyed devotional service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. By this test he is known to be a direct manifestation of the Lord and a genuine representative of Śrī Nityānanda Prabhu. Such a spiritual master is known as ācāryadeva. Influenced by an envious temperament and dissatisfied because of an attitude of sense gratification, mundaners criticize a real ācārya. In fact, however, a bona fide ācārya is nondifferent from the Personality of Godhead, and therefore to envy such an ācārya is to envy the Personality of Godhead Himself. This will produce an effect subversive of transcendental realization.
As mentioned previously, a disciple should always respect the spiritual master as a manifestation of Śrī Kṛṣṇa, but at the same time one should always remember that a spiritual master is never authorized to imitate the transcendental pastimes of the Lord. False spiritual masters pose themselves as identical with Śrī Kṛṣṇa in every respect to exploit the sentiments of their disciples, but such impersonalists can only mislead their disciples, for their ultimate aim is to become one with the Lord. This is against the principles of the devotional cult.
The real Vedic philosophy is acintya-bhedābheda-tattva, which establishes everything to be simultaneously one with and different from the Personality of Godhead. Śrīla Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī confirms that this is the real position of a bona fide spiritual master and says that one should always think of the spiritual master in terms of his intimate relationship with Mukunda (Śrī Kṛṣṇa). Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī, in his Bhakti-sandarbha (213), has clearly defined that a pure devotee’s observation of the spiritual master and Lord Śiva as one with the Personality of Godhead exists in terms of their being very dear to the Lord, not identical with Him in all respects. Following in the footsteps of Śrīla Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī and Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī, later ācāryas like Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura have confirmed the same truths. In his prayers to the spiritual master, Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura confirms that all the revealed scriptures accept the spiritual master to be identical with the Personality of Godhead because he is a very dear and confidential servant of the Lord. Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavas therefore worship Śrīla Gurudeva (the spiritual master) in the light of his being the servitor of the Personality of Godhead. In all the ancient scriptures of devotional service and in the more recent songs of Śrīla Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura and other unalloyed Vaiṣṇavas, the spiritual master is always considered either one of the confidential associates of Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī or a manifested representation of Śrīla Nityānanda Prabhu.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Note: In this letter to Rupanuga, Srila Prabhupada had ALREADY WARNED Rupanuga das about the position of his godbrothers and more particularly Sridhar Maharaja. BUT STILL Rupanuga IGNORED this:
HE NEVER RECOMMENDED ANYONE TO BE ACARYA OF THE GAUDIYA MATH. BUT SRIDHARA MAHARAJA IS RESPONSIBLE FOR DISOBEYING THIS ORDER OF GURU MAHARAJA, AND HE AND OTHERS WHO ARE ALREADY DEAD UNNECESSARILY THOUGHT THAT THERE MUST BE ONE ACARYA.
ACTUALLY AMONGST MY GODBROTHERS NO ONE IS QUALIFIED TO BECOME ACARYA. SO IT IS BETTER NOT TO MIX WITH MY GODBROTHERS VERY INTIMATELY BECAUSE INSTEAD OF INSPIRING OUR STUDENTS AND DISCIPLES THEY MAY SOMETIMES POLLUTE THEM.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Analysis of Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Rupanuga
BY: MAHESH RAJA
Dec 3, UK (SUN) — Please read the following letter from Srila Prabhupada to Rupanuga, April 28, 1974. My analysis follows below:
“You are right about Sridhara Maharaja’s genuineness. But in my opinion he is the best of the lot. He is my old friend, AT LEAST HE EXECUTES THE REGULATIVE PRINCIPLES OF DEVOTIONAL SERVICE. I do not wish to discuss about activities of my Godbrothers but it is a fact they have no life for preaching work. All are satisfied with a place for residence in the name of a temple, they engage disciples to get foodstuff by transcendental devices and eat and sleep. They have no idea or brain how to broadcast the cult of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.”
My Guru Maharaja used to lament many times for this reason and he thought if one man at least had understood the principle of preaching then his mission would achieve success. In the latter days of my Guru Maharaja he was very disgusted. Actually, he left this world earlier, otherwise he would have continued to live for more years. Still he requested his disciples to form a strong Governing body for preaching the cult of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. HE NEVER RECOMMENDED ANYONE TO BE ACARYA OF THE GAUDIYA MATH. BUT SRIDHARA MAHARAJA IS RESPONSIBLE FOR DISOBEYING THIS ORDER OF GURU MAHARAJA, AND HE AND OTHERS WHO ARE ALREADY DEAD UNNECESSARILY THOUGHT THAT THERE MUST BE ONE ACARYA. If Guru Maharaja could have seen someone who was qualified at that time to be acarya he would have mentioned. Because on the night before he passed away he talked of so many things, but never mentioned an acarya. His idea was acarya was not to be nominated amongst the governing body. He said openly you make a GBC and conduct the mission. So his idea was amongst the members of GBC who would come out successful and self effulgent acarya would be automatically selected. So Sridhara Maharaja and his two associate gentlemen unauthorizedly selected one acarya and later it proved a failure. THE RESULT IS NOW EVERYONE IS CLAIMING TO BE ACARYA EVEN THOUGH THEY MAY BE KANISTHA ADHIKARI WITH NO ABILITY TO PREACH. IN SOME OF THE CAMPS THE ACARYA IS BEING CHANGED THREE TIMES A YEAR. THEREFORE WE MAY NOT COMMIT THE SAME MISTAKE IN OUR ISKCON CAMP. ACTUALLY AMONGST MY GODBROTHERS NO ONE IS QUALIFIED TO BECOME ACARYA. SO IT IS BETTER NOT TO MIX WITH MY GODBROTHERS VERY INTIMATELY BECAUSE INSTEAD OF INSPIRING OUR STUDENTS AND DISCIPLES THEY MAY SOMETIMES POLLUTE THEM. This attempt was made previously by them, especially Madhava Maharaja and Tirtha Maharaja and Bon Maharaja but somehow or other I saved the situation. This is going on. We shall be very careful about them and not mix with them. This is my instruction to you all. They cannot help us in our movement, but they are very competent to harm our natural progress. So we must be very careful about them.”
In this letter Srila Prabhupada gives a HUGE amount of information.
1) Notice how he gives Sridhara Maharaja credit – for ONLY- AT LEAST HE EXECUTES THE REGULATIVE PRINCIPLES-so we can understand Sridhara Maharaja was NOT on prema bhakti level he was on REGULATIVE PRINCIPLES platform (Sadhana bhakti). The word AT LEAST means other Godbrothers did NOT even execute Regulative Principles.
2) Srila Prabhupada says, AMONGST MY GODBROTHERS NO ONE IS QUALIFIED TO BECOME ACARYA. If Srila Prabhupada’s Godbrothers were NOT qualified – ANY of THEIR disciples most certainly could NOT be fit to give Diksa either. Please see Diksa understanding in my article: “Diksa Given to Madhyama-adhikari is Not a Formality”.
3) How can a person disobey the Guru and become Guru? Srila Prabhupada’s Godbrothers disobeyed THEIR Guru Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura.
4) Srila Prabhupada further states THEY MAY BE KANISTHA ADHIKARI – this “MAYBE” means it is doubtful they were even on a Kanistha Adhikari platform, which requires one to be a FULLY QUALIFIED BRAHMANA. This PROVED they lacked the Brahminical quality of truthfulness. They were dishonest, they PRETENDED to give DIKSA under the false guise of being Guru.
Srila Prabhupada Room Conversation, February 14, 1977 in Mayapur:
Prabhupada: Kanistha-adhikari means he must be a brahmana. That is kanistha-adhikari. The spiritual life, kanistha-adhikari, means he must be a QUALIFIED brahmana. That is kanistha. What is esteemed as very high position in the material world, brahmana, that is kanistha-adhikari.
arcayam eva haraye
pujam yah sraddhayehate
na tad-bhaktesu canyesu
sa bhaktah prakrtah smrtah
The brahmana means from the material stage gradually he is elevated to the spiritual stage. AND BELOW THE BRAHMANA THERE IS NO QUESTION OF VAISNAVA.
Srila Prabhupada KNEW the mentality of some of his “disciples” FULLY well-this is why he says THEREFORE WE MAY NOT COMMIT THE SAME MISTAKE IN OUR ISKCON CAMP-they all had the same ACARYA disease. As a Representative of the Supersoul, he could FULLY understand their desire was to be worshipped as ACARYA (Vyasa puja is prerogative of the Acarya ONLY). To SAVE the devotees from such offensive actions Srila Prabhupada signed — ordered and set-up — the Ritvik System on 9th July 1977, which incidentally was NEVER REVOKED by him.
https://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-07/editorials2250.htm
I think the fundamental question about Guru Tattva is the existential position of Srila Prabhupada. I think in Iskcon since 1978 the beginning question has never been addressed or asked. It seems to me that most of the discussions and debates about Srila Prabhupada have not really found out HOW Srila Prabhupada is the Spiritual master, how Srila Prabhupada is existential in Iskcon eternally.
The 1978 assumption was that Srila Prabhupada should be replaced, or succeeded, and so the GBC invented a new philosophy of Guru Tattva and it was called the Zonal Acharya system, which was changed again in around 1987, but they had focused on the …..pre-conceptualized physically present Diksha Guru Theory.
Instead what they should have done and what seems to be missing from all the quotes and debates and written papers etc is How Srila Prabhupada is existentially present in His eternal Vani in His Aprakata feature (unmanifested).
In His Book Elevation to Krishna Consciousness chapter 4 Srila Prabhupada writes as follows:
“There are two conceptions of presence—the physical conception and the vibrational conception. The physical conception is temporary, whereas the vibrational conception is eternal. When we enjoy or relish the vibration of Kṛṣṇa’s teachings in Bhagavad-gītā, or when we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, we should know that by those vibrations He is immediately present. He is absolute, and because of this His vibration is just as important as His physical presence. When we feel separation from Kṛṣṇa or the spiritual master, we should just try to remember their words of instructions, and we will no longer feel that separation. Such association with Kṛṣṇa and the spiritual master should be association by vibration, not physical presence. That is real association. We put so much stress on seeing, but when Kṛṣṇa was present on this earth, so many people saw Him and did not realize that He is God; so what is the advantage of seeing? By seeing Kṛṣṇa, we will not understand Him, but by listening carefully to His teachings, we can come to the platform of understanding. We can touch Kṛṣṇa immediately by sound vibration; therefore, we should give more stress to the sound vibration of Kṛṣṇa and of the spiritual master—then we’ll feel happy and won’t feel separation.” Excerpted from Elevation to Krishna Consciousness by Srila Prabhupada chapter 4.
**********************************************************************************************************************
This explains clearly that there are two conceptions of presence NOT one as the GBC would have you believe and the one that they focus on is the Temporary Physical Presence and then they added that when a Spiritual Master is NOT physically present He cant act as a Spiritual Master, and a disciple cannot accept a non-physical Spiritual Master. And so they directed the whole of Iskcon on a journey of make believe, they overlooked that the eternal spiritual presence called Vani is still active and Srila Prabhupada explains this is the presence we should all focus on. Not Vapuh.
So this is the real argument; The existential position of Srila Prabhupada in His Aprakata (unmanifested) position in His Vani. Within Iskcon there should never have been any debate on whether Srila Prabhupada is the SOLE Diksha Guru, it is patently clear from this quote from Elevation to KC that Srila Prabhupada IS the Diksha Guru in His Vani in His Aprakata feature, but what makes this statement even stronger is that Srila Prabhupada is the Founder-Acharya of Iskcon, this principle means that NO other Diksha Guru can exist within Iskcon. If any of Srila Prabhupada’s vapuh Disciples want to be Diksha Gurus IT CANT be in Iskcon because it would create a conflict of interests. It has to be outside Iskcon.
ALL the debates and arguments that Iskcon GBC have created are based on the wrong questions and statements, and what has happened is that we have all got caught up in trying to defeat their points. But we dont have to do that, all we have to do as followers of Srila Prabhupada is positively show Srila Prabhupada’s existential position in His Aprakata situation, in His unmanifest position as the sole Diksha Guru of Iskcon as the Founder-Acharya.
The evidence of the TWO conceptions of presence defeats the GBC position easily, there is no argument against the TWO concepts of presence. Vapuh and Vani. And the Spiritual master is ;
“The first manifestation described is the spiritual master, who appears in two plenary (full, complete powers) parts called the initiating spiritual master and instructing spiritual master. They are identical because both of Them are phenomenal manifestations of the Supreme Truth.”
Excerpted from Chaitanya Charitamrita Chapter 1, page 18. by Srila Prabhupada.
Whenever we use the word “Spiritual master” it means the Diksha and Shiksha Guru equally. So if the GBC say Srila Prabhupada is their Maha Shiksha Guru in His Vani form in His Aprakata feature, then He is also their Diksha Guru as well. If they discriminate between Them they cause an offence in devotional service. And the GBC are undone forever.
“There is no difference between the shelter-giving Supreme Lord and the initiating and instructing spiritual masters. If one foolishly discriminates between them, he commits an offense in the discharge of devotional service.”
Cc Adi Lila text 1. 47 Purport by Srila Prabhupada.