Regarding Rupanuga das

“Rupanuga Dasa ACBSP explains his crazy philosophy of Guru tattva”
(excerpt from full 5h video at bottom)

 

(forwarded by Balaram das)

 

Hare Krsna Dvaips prabhu,

Did you get this from Yasodanandan prabhu? Good exchange by the Alex (Russian?) exposing some of Rupananga’s double talk & hypocrisy.

After all, he personally got the 28th April ‘74 letter from Prabhupada, re “THEREFORE WE MAY NOT COMMIT THE SAME MISTAKE IN OUR ISKCON CAMP”.

This was sent by Prabhupada just after the 1974 FESTIVAL, when JPS took us on parikrama to Sridar’s ashram for prasad & discourses. Sridhar & GM sanyasis spoke then a few of ours spoke.. bit hard to decipher although.

Later that day Madhudvisa called me up to his room and said Prabhupada called all the GBC & sanyasis to his room & was more furious than he had ever seen. After hearing the words spoken by both camps (must have been recorded) he blasted the GM for denigrating his preaching in the West with so many 3rd class converts etc, but he was more scathing that his sanyasis never argued back to refute these claims..

in Prabhupada’s eyes that was worse! I don’t know if anyone else heard that story, but Madhudvisa in great anguish related it to me, directly after they got the blasting from Prabhupada. I think maybe Dhananjaya prabhu from UK also heard about the blast from Prabhupada.

I directly connect this episode at Sridhar’s ashram to Prabhupada stating so strongly in his letter to Rupanuga (attached) on the first page re not associating or following GM path. I have never heard any devotees making this connection, but I found the copy of letter in the files when I came back from1976 Festival, after TKG & SDG told me to be Melbourne TP, after Madhudvisa had blooped.. he was GBC & acting as Melbourne TP at the time, I was like his Temple commander ‘roustabout’ haha.

I think in comparison, little FISKCON makes the Catholic church look like playschool, regarding all the crimes, politics & offenses etc.

Ys, Bal

 

 

From: Yasoda nandana dasa <********@********>
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2024 5:11 AM
To: Alexander Stegantsev <*********@********>
Subject: Re: Rupanuga das

Very Interesting exchanges .

 

 

On Sat, Jun 15, 2024 at 11:02 AM, Alexander Stegantsev

<********@*********> wrote:

Dear Yasoda nandana prabhu,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Yes, after a short pause Rupanuga wrote me the following letter insisting on his misunderstandings:

Rupanuga Das, March 12, 2024:

He didn’t say he would be remaining the only diksa guru. He never gave that order, nor can anyone find a quote where he did. But his cowardly disciples won’t take the responsibility or the risk for someone who has been chanting 16 rounds and following the four regs for six months at least, and instead they pass the buck to Srila Prabhupada!

But guess what, like when you touch the top of the head of someone touching your feet, so the karma goes around, Srila Prabhupada passes the buck back with his blessings. So much for that illusion.

He showed us he was the last Acarya with his teachings, nobody else. They were to be the officiating acaryas, the Acarya’s rep, while he was still with us. After he left they were to be “regular gurus” he said, and their disciples were to be his “grand disciples”, he said. When? After he left. That was the question he was answering, “in the future after you are no longer with us?” And if we weren’t able to accept the little dregs of karma left after someone chanted 16 rounds and followed the regs for six months, then the disciplic succession goes on, on the strength of Srila Prabhupada-vani incarnate for anyone who can read, sruti. Bas.

And that is the way it is going on, Srila Prabhupada-vani, divya-jnana. Whether you pass it on officially or not. The real disciplic succession is going on through his disciples, male or female, acting as transparent via mediums for Srila Prabhupada, notwithstanding new, innovative Iskcon denominations like the Rtviks or Narayan followers. (End of quote)

My reply (March 14, 2024):

Dear Rupanuga prabhu,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Srila Prabhupada did say he would remain the initiating guru for his movement and new devotees would be his initiated disciples assisted by ritvik priests on behalf of Srila Prabhupada, and he would live on in his instructions. That is the only system of initiations he really ordered for the future of ISKCON and never cancelled it. You have all the opportunities to study this issue in more detail and accept the order of Srila Prabhupada.

Some years ago I read one of your articles “Ritvik Reality or “I Stop for the Time Being”” where you wrote:

“I stop for the time being” indicates that the ritvik appointments made three months earlier were necessary due to Srila Prabhupada’s condition, but he considered them temporary-to last until his own initiations could begin again. In other words, “for the time being” indicates Srila Prabhupada’s expectation of taking up initiations again in due course. “And if by Krsna’s grace I recover from this condition, then I shall begin again,” indicates his hopeful intention to take up initiation duties again in the future.”

I don’t know if you have re-thought such kind of statements, but this is incorrect. How Srila Prabhupada’s resuming performing initiation ceremonies would affect or stop initiations on behalf of Srila Prabhupada? Where did he state it was “temporary”? What do you mean by “taking up initiations again in due course” – that Srila Prabhupada would again do ALL the initiations throughout the world personally for all the disciples as if it wasn’t October 1977 with more thant 100 centers and thousands of devotees, but 1960s? It would be impossible! He would again do them ALONG WITH ritvik initiations, as it had been done essentially for years in the 1970s – two things happened simultaneously. Whenever Srila Prabhupada had time and it was convenient he would do it personally, otherwise in many places new devotees would be initiated by recommendation of a TP or other senior devotee and get the ceremony done by them. But all of them would be Prabhupada’s initiated disciples. Srila Prabhupada talked on October 18, 1977 about the initiation ceremony, about satisfying personal request for initiation, but whether he would perform the CEREMONY personally or his “deputies” from “that list” would perform it on his behalf, anyway he would remain the spiritual master in both cases. So that conversation confirmed the relevance and continuation of this system, not otherwise. Like it was written in one of the replies to your article: “He [Srila Prabhupada] speaks only of his ability to satisfy personal requests for initiation, which would require his health to be good and which he had already stated he would be doing alongside the ritvik system wherever practical. Therefore since the October 18th conversation does not involve Srila Prabhupada stating he intends to terminate the ritvik system, and the July 9th directive states it must be applied in ISKCON, it must continue to so be applied.”

Just like there are initiated disciples of Srila Prabhupada after 18 October, 1977, in November, in his initiated disciples book. And on that very day (18 October) the secretary wrote to Fiji TP Vasudeva das Adhikary on behalf of Srila Prabhupada that he should send recommendations to 11 ritviks and then conduct the initiation CEREMONY: “You may send the names of such worthy persons to any one of the eleven devotees whom Srila Prabhupada has designated to initiate on His behalf, and after receiving the sanctified beads and new names, you can then perform the initiation CEREMONY.” So Srila Prabhupada didn’t cease to be the spiritual guru. All the initiation letters of 1977 point to to the fact these people were appointed as ritviks (like when Tamal wrote individually to Hansadutta, Kirtanananda, Harikesa, etc. in July 1977 he informed them that this is appointment of rittiks, not a single word that they have been appointed as would be diksa gurus!). More in the attached file “Myth: On October 18 1977 Srila Prabhupada stopped being initiating guru”.

Tamal admitted on Dec. 3, 1980 in Topanga Canyon: “Actually, Prabhupada never appointed any gurus. He didn’t appoint eleven gurus. He appointed eleven ritviks. He never appointed them gurus. Myself and the other GBC have done the greatest disservice to this movement the last three years because we interpreted the appointment of ritviks as the appointment of gurus… Before I got ready to type the letter, I asked him: “Srila Prabhupada, is this all or do you want to add more?” He said, “As is necessary, others may be added.”… You can’t show me anything on tape or in writing where Prabhupada says, “I appoint these 11 as gurus.” It doesn’t exist because he never appointed any gurus. This is a MYTH.” (https://iskcon-truth.com/tamal-admission-topanga.html, the scanned transcript pdf file link is at the bottom of the page)

Gargamuni das, who was present at Vrindavana in 1977 and was a GBC member: “The system he [Srila Prabhupada] introduced by this ritvik system worked perfectly all over the world. Every devotee stayed at the temples where they were initiated. There was no problems, no politics, and then a month before Prabhupada left he mentioned in a conversation, he said, “You keep this system. This is a perfect system. If you keep this system, everything will go on as it is going on now.” (From a video recorded lecture delivered on 28 July, 2016 in Srila Prabhupada’s house in ISKCON Vrindavan, video: https://vk.com/video-4018800_456239170).

Hansadutta das: “The point is: when the guru orders, then only one becomes guru. For instance, in the ashram, if the spiritual master does not ask or order his disciple to take food, then the disciple should fast. That is the discipline. Prabhupada ordered some disciples to “act as rittvik representatives of the acharya” but he never ordered, “You become full guru-acharya of ISKCON” to any disciple. Where is the order? It does not exist!… Such kidnapper gurus and their unfortunate disciples fall down from the devotional path in due course of time, just as a tree that receives no water loses its leaves (disciples), dries up and dies. We have seen this phenomenon repeat itself again and again in a long list of so-called gurus, myself included. However, such dead gurus and disciples can be brought back to life simply by situating themselves properly in the rittvik initiating arrangement made by Prabhupada.” (“Srila Prabhupada, His Movement and You”, 1993)

Shortly before passing away Hansadutta said:

Hamsaduta das: The real point is that Prabhupada gave prescription for what’s to be done when he leaves this planet, which is to act as ritivik representative of the acarya… We don’t see, we don’t find any last letter where Prabhupada tells, “These persons shall be my acaryas, or they shall act as diksa-gurus.” He doesn’t write that.

Devotee: So how all the gurus and yourself, how did you all decide to be gurus?

Hamsaduta das: It was a kind of… It’s just like a young boy wants to be like his father. So one day he walks into the living room and he has his father’s shoes on, and he is only 3 years old, and he has his hat on, and everyone has a good laugh… Child is IMITATING his father… (From ‘Hansadutta Dasa ACBSP on the final Ritvik order and Guru scam in ISKCON’ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WVcjM_MxSU)

Prabhupāda: After one month I will be eighty.

Reporter (1): Eighty?

Prabhupāda: Eighty years old.

Reporter (2): What will happen…

Prabhupāda: I was born in 1896, now you can calculate.

Reporter (2): What will happen to the movement in the United States when you die?

Prabhupāda: I will never die.

Devotees: Jaya! Hari bol! (laughter)

Prabhupāda: I shall live for my books, and you will utilize.

Reporter (2): Are you training a successor?

Prabhupāda: Yes, my Guru Mahārāja is there. Where is my photo of Guru Mahārāja? I think… Here is. (Press Conference — July 16, 1975, San Francisco)

Interviewer: What happens when that inevitable time comes when a successor is needed?

Rāmeśvara: He is asking about the future, who will guide the movement in the future.

Prabhupāda: They will guide. I am training them.

Interviewer: Will there be one spiritual leader, though?

Prabhupāda: NO, I AM TRAINING GBC, eighteen all over the world.

Rāmeśvara: His personal secretaries.

Interviewer: I see.

Rāmeśvara: To see that the original teachings that Prabhupāda has given are not in any way changed.

Interviewer: Well, nothing more? Then ah, thank you, and I wish you well in your travels. (Magazine Interview — June 10, 1976, Los Angeles)

Guest (2): What do you see as the future of your movement and are you planning to…

Prabhupāda: My movement is genuine.

Guest (2): …to choose a successor.

Prabhupāda: It is already successful. Genuine thing is always success. Gold is gold. If somebody is fortunate, he can purchase gold, but gold remains gold. If somebody purchases and somebody does not, it doesn’t matter. Gold is gold. So future, gold future is always the same as it is at present—if it is gold. If it is something glittering, that is another thing.

Guest (4): But there must be somebody, you know, needed to handle the thing.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that we are creating. We are creating these devotees who will handle.

Hanumān: One thing he’s saying, this gentleman, and I would like to know, is your successor named or your successor will…

Prabhupāda: My success is always there. Yes. Just like the sun is there always. It may come before your vision or not. The sun is there. But if you are fortunate, you come before the sun. Otherwise you remain in darkness. (Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, other Guests and Disciples — February 12, 1975, Mexico)

In his article “SOME OBSERVANCES ON THE LATTER-DAY GURUS A Rational and Ethical View of Guru Since Prabhupada’s Departure” Rohini Kumar Swami wrote:

“At our center at 26th Second Ave., Srila Prabhupada, when asked who would be the next acarya after him stated, “There will not be any more acaryas.”

This article was written in 1985 and included as Appendix 8 of Sulocana Dasa’s book “The Guru Business” (1986), and in that book Sulocana mentions that this conversation, according to Rohini Kumar Swami, occurred in 1968 in New York.

Another disciple of Srila Prabhupada Pradyumna Das wrote in his letter to GBC chairman Satsvarupa das Gosvami dated August 7, 1978:

“At the time of Srila Prabhupada’s disappearance, it was most clearly understood by all of us present that Srila Prabhupada had made MADE NO SUCCESSOR. Everyone admitted that fact and understood it clearly. Instead, the GBC was to jointly manage all affairs of ISKCON just as had been the case previously”. (Full text: http://www.harekrsna.org/pada/documents/pradyumna.htm)

Gauridas Pandit Das, one of Srila Prabhupada’s personal servants in 1977: “The next few days after the ritvic appointments I heard more instructions from Srila Prabhupada. Tamal K.G. asked him the next morning, July 8th, if there should be vyasasana’s for the ritviks in the temples. Srila Prabhupada said, “No; that would create enmity among my disciples.” […] Tamal K.G. also asked Srila Prabhupada if there could be more ritviks in the future. Srila Prabhupada said that more could be appointed by the GBC at Mayapura. Tamal K.G. asked Srila Prabhupada what to do if a ritvik falls down and Srila Prabhupada replied that the GBC could remove them. […] I told some of the devotees what I heard about this and Yasodanandan wrote it down in his diary. On July 8th Yasodanandan Prabhu wrote, “Tamal Krishna Maharaja was talking about [with Prabhupada] rtvik gurus to initiate on behalf of Prabhupada after he leaves the planet.” On July 9th Yasodanandan wrote, “I heard from Tamal Krishna Maharaja in the afternoon that Srila Prabhupada had told him to send a letter to ‘all the temples’ to explain the ritvik initiation system for the future.” On July 10th Yasodanandan wrote, “Tamal Krishna Maharaja comes out of Prabhupada’s room. TKG: “Haribol, Yasoda, did you see this?” Yasoda: “No, what is it?” TKG: “This is signed by Prabhupada.” Yasoda: “What does all this mean?” TKG: “Devotees have been writing to Prabhupada asking for initiations and now Prabhupada has named eleven ritviks who can initiate on his behalf. Prabhupada said others can be added.” Yasodanandan: “And when Prabhupada departs?” TKG: “They’ll be ritviks. That’s what Prabhupada said. It’s all on tape.”

(R.C.5-28-77 & 7-7-77etc.)” (On My Behalf, by Gauridasa Pandita Dasa, 01/19/98, https://vaishnava-news-network.org/world/9801/19-1517/index.html)

I heard from Gauridas Pandit all these personally in Jaipur in India in 2013, I got the scans from Yasoda nandana of his original diary pages and checked them. Also, I talked to Gargamuni in Vrindavana, I wrote to Cyavana Swami.

According to testimony of Cyavana Swami Srila Prabhupada said, “I will continue to accept disciples and give them my blessings even after I am no longer physically present, you may initiate them on my behalf”. To that he added, “I will have millions of disciples”… (Posted by HH Cyavana Swami on his Facebooks page on September 7, 2016, see attached screenshots). There are other similar testimonies (like that of Pita das) consistent with documented evidence. On May 28, 1977 Srila Prabhupada said to GBC delegation that in the future particularly when he is “no longer with us”, he would appoint “ritviks” and confirmed that future disciples would be his disciples. That was further confirmed in the July 9, 1977 letter to all GBCs and Temple Presidents (the final directive on future initiations in ISKCON), “The newly initiated devotees are disciples of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupad, the above eleven senior devotees acting as His representative.” Disciples of Srila Prabhupada’s disciples would be possible if he would have ordered them so (it was mentioned by Srila Prabhupada on April 22, 1977, May 28, 1977, etc.) But there was no such order although on October 2, 1977 Srila Prabhupada said that he had given everything in writing: “I have given in writing everything, whatever you wanted—my will, my executive(?) power, everything.” Srila Prabhupada’s final will also doesn’t mention any future spiritual successors but confirms that even successors to ISKCON property trustees/executive directors must be “my initiated disciple” and that the system of management shouldn’t change, and the GBC will be managerial authority. During the final will discussion on June 2, 1977 Srila Prabhupada added that declaration, Oath of Allegiance to him, should be continued in the future (after his passing away): “And that declaration should be taken. That you are already taking… Hm. Oath of allegiance. That should be maintained”. And its text authorized by him 4 times states that he is “my Guru Maharaja” to whom the disciple pledges allegiance and it’s Prabhupada whose directives and orders he would follow. There are numerous evidences both documented and testimonial that Srila Prabhupada clearly wanted to remain the initiating guru for his movement even after his physical departure, that the system of management shouldn’t change and ceremonial aspect of initiation should be conducted by temple presidents and official ritviks (to be “added as necessary”, according to TKG Confession, December 3, 1980, citing Srila Prabhupada’s instruction).

In his memories BV Puri Gosvami recalled how he visited Srila Prabhupada in 1977: “Maharaj, you have established 11 gurus… You have selected 11 gurus. He said, “I have not selected. I have appointed 11 ritviks. Ritviks” (Video: https://vk.com/video-4018800_456239171)

So Srila Prabhupada appointed ritviks, not diksa gurus! There is zero real evidence that Srila Prabhupada actually authorized anyone in 1977 to replace him as the diksa guru for ISKCON. This representative system should continue. All the documented evidence point to the fact Srila Prabhupada established ritivk initiation system, not zonal acaryas, or anything else. And the documents keep coming out, just like Vedabase 2019 has the newly published July 22nd, 1977 letter from Tamal Krishna to Ramesvara with detailed description of ritvik initiations (both first and second ones). Where is such detailed description of the future multiple diksa guru system in ISKCON, their voting in, etc? (End of quote from my email)

At the end of my email I asked him to stop this unproductive debate as I didn’t have time for it:

“So many things can be said, but I must conclude that I don’t have time anymore to engage in this exchange of messages, as I don’t find it productive, unfortunately. It’s the beginning of the farming season now, and I have a lot of work to do.”

After that I didn’t hear from him anything.

Ys, Alex

Суббота, 15 июня 2024, 19:08 +03:00 от Yasoda nandana dasa <********@********>:

Kindly let me know if you hear any reply from Mr. Rupanuga. You soundly defeated him in a very tactful way.

Thank you for your service.

——– Forwarded Message ——–

Subject:

Rupanuga das

Date:

Sun, 10 Mar 2024 19:37:25 +0300

From:

Alexander Stegantsev <********@********>

Reply-To:

Alexander Stegantsev <********@********>

To:

Dear devotees,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

In a recent essay I quoted a remarkable interview with Rupanuga prabhu ACBSP:

There is a recording of former maya-ISKCON guru and GBC Rupanuga das telling the following:

Rupanuga das: After disappearance the whole thing fell apart when the GBC was hijacked.

Interviewer: What do you mean ‘hijacked’?

Rupanuga das: It was taken over by the gurus.

Interviewer: Oh, you mean the eleven or twelve whoever they were?

Rupanuga das: Yeah, eleven. There were 22 or 23 of us and when a half of them became gurus, they took over because they had the control of men, the new men. There was an army, they were making an army. And they also replaced Srila Prabhupada’s disciples, and they jabbed many positions. You know, elbowed them out.

Interviewer: So, ISKCON has been hijacked, according to Rupanuga prabhu.

Rupanuga das: Yes.

Interviewer: Oh, wow!

Rupanuga das: It’s not just according to me. Other persons see it the same way. ‘Hijacked’ is nothing new concept. But that’s what happened. It’s been hijacked.

Interviewer: Mafia has taken over.

Rupanuga das: It was started with the GBC. When you hijack the GBC, you know, the next step was the whole movement, because the GBC was in charge of the movement. Everybody knew it. So they hijacked in the sense took it over and utilized it for their own purposes. (Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InxkOQbiia8)

Dhira Govinda prabhu commented: “There is a recording of former maya-ISKCON guru and GBC Rupanuga das telling the following”- I know that Rupanuga das was a GBC, though, I’m not certain whether he was ever an official “ISKCON guru”. There is a confirmation/explanation from Rupanuga prabhu himself. And I tried to ask him questions regarding 27-29 May, 1977 GBC meeting which was the last GBC meeting during Srila Prabhupada’s physical presence, about the GBC minutes book. It moved on to the idea of Srila Prabhupada’s supposed appointment of 11 initiating gurus. You can read our discussion, if you like:

Rupanuga wrote to me:

Maya-Iskcon guru?

I was initiated in Oct., 1966 and joined this movement to spread it. Although I was formally elected to a guru position by the GBC, I never accepted any disciples. I have never supported the deviations and revisions of Iskcon and the books. I resigned from the GBC in 1988 and left Iskcon at the same time because I was unable to make reforms from within the GBC and did not want to be associated with continued deviations. I have enclosed some PDF information for your information. In a nutshell, Srila Prabhupada never went anywhere; he remains incarnate in his teachings, books, lectures, morning walks, etc., as Srila Prabhupada-vani for the next 9500 years. This is the year 537 Gaurabda, which supersedes the conventional designation of 2024, etc. Hare Krishna.

Your servant,

Rupanuga das, ACBSP

PS: As far as I am concerned, there no use beating a dead horse; it just gets one stuck to the Iskcon tar-baby. Better to preach to the people, Prabhupada direct. Hare Krishna!

My reply:

Dear Rupanuga prabhu,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Thank you for your email. Yes, I know that you haven’t accepted any disciples, I heard this from Nityananda prabhu. I also heard that you was authorized by the GBC as diksa guru, and you confirm it by saying that you was “formally elected to a guru position by the GBC”. It’s hard to imagine that it was done without your consent or awareness. So you accepted to become an ISKCON initiating guru, albeit for a short time. Right? It’s certainly very good that you never accepted any disciples and rejected that position soon, and I personally sympathetic to you in many respects, and I have translated a number of pieces from your papers into Russian language and published them. I appreciate your service, your memories of Srila Prabhupada, etc. But still it’s a fact that you were a diksa guru in ISKCON that, as you yourself put it elsewhere, was hijacked. Hijacked by whom? By the “acaryas” who, in essence, staged a coup and deceived their Godsiblings, concealed many Srila Prabhupada’s documents, letters, a couple of hundreds of audio tapes from 1977 is still missing, etc. They were never appointed by Srila Prabhupada in this capacity of acaryas, according to recorded evidence, documents, and a number of eyewitnesses to whom I talked personally and heard and read many materials over last decades. And these people proved their falsehood as gurus by their performance beyond any doubt. They introduced deviations and committed unspoken crimes. I am familiar with that by personal experience in this so called ISKCON. So this, let’s say, branch of ISKCON is certainly false, therefore I call it maya-ISKCON, since in many respects it’s not ISKCON that carefully follows Srila Prabhupada’s orders and standards, and, on the whole, it began to radically deviate in 1978. I hope you will agree to that. I agree with you that Srila Prabhupada “remains incarnate in his teachings, books, lectures, morning walks, etc., as Srila Prabhupada-vani for the next 9500 years”. I think I wasn’t “beating a dead horse”. These issues have never been properly corrected in maya-ISKCON, and they influence many people, me included, to this very moment. I am sure we must understand what has happened so that we can find the way out of the crisis, both personally and movement-wide.

Thank you for all the pdf files you attached. One of them is the GBC minutes of May 28, 1977 from the GBC’s ISKCON Journal of 1990.

I know your position regarding that conversation, and I beg to respectfully disagree. Still, putting aside these differences, can you please clarify some historical details regarding that 27-29 May, 1977 GBC meeting? As I understand, you were there at the meeting. I think it was very important as the GBCs were called to come in anticipation of Srila Prabhupada’s passing away due to worsening of his health, and in fact it became the last GBC meeting held during his manifested presence, as far as I know. It’s an affair that took place long ago, but I hope you can remember some of the following details:

1) What was Tamal Krishna’s role in preparing the original 5 questions for 28 May discussion with Srila Prabhupada? Did Tamal try to influence their formulation?

2) Why they included questions #3 & #4 about initiations? Why ask “what is the relationship of the person who gives this initiation to the person who gives it to”?

3) Was there any mention in the course of GBC discussion regarding initiations via representatives system?

4) Did anybody among GBCs mention something about what to do with the Direction of Management that was being included in some of the bylaws (ISKCON Bay Area, etc.)?

5) Why they decided to send several men delegation to Srila Prabhupada? How many of them actually visited the room? I guess all the GBCs could visit Srila Prabhupada and witness his answers and seek for any clarification. Was Srila Prabhupada’s room really so small that they decided to send a delegation?

6) In ITV’s video Disciple of My Disciple Giriraja says that after the conversation with Srila Prabhupada Satsvarupa later came out and told the other GBCs what were Srila Prabhupada’s answers. So why they didn’t ask to listen to the tape and just signed something they weren’t witnesses to? Didn’t they got any further questions?

7) Can you clarify why the printed version of the May 27-29, 1977 GBC report that was sent out throught the BBT newsletter differs from the handwritten one? Why the issue of future initiations was completely omitted in the printed version that was sent out to ISKCON?

8) Was the difference between the handwritten and the printed versions of the GBC report noticed by you at that time or soon, or by any other GBCs that you may know of? Did you note that the printed version of the report differs from the handwritten one not only on the point of initiations but also on BBT issue? So who do you think made these omission/change in the printed version of the GBC report?

9) What was discussed on May 29th during the last day of the GBC meetings? Were there any additional discussions? Why they finished the meetings if they didn’t get clarifications for many details?

10) If they thought Srila Prabhupada said he will appoint some initiating gurus, how is it that they didn’t get any questions regarding who is so much qualified to become the next acarya(s), what should be numerous details of the new guru system, etc. Why the questions regarding these details weren’t asked to Srila Prabhupada in spring, summer or autumn of 1977, and as a result they had to go to B. R. Sridhara Maharaja to ask them in 1978? Isn’t it strange?

It’s all too strange to me: strange list of questions, they were strangely asked during the conversation (why Satsvarupa didn’t mention sannyasa initiations from the prepared list, why he introduced the mention of the original GBCs in the section where GBC future was discussed, etc.), they were strangely reported and dealt with by the GBC meeting and then strangely reported to ISKCON and later strangely interpreted as some sort of great evidence. This was perhaps the most important GBC meeting of all and maybe it was the last chance to clarify ISKCON’s future…

Can you please answer the above questions, it’s important for me, and it seems no one else, that I know of, is left who can answer them. I am afraid that senior disciples of Srila Prabhupada may soon pass away and the fog regarding some questions will never be clarified, unless they are honestly answered by the remaining disciples.

Thank you in advance.

Your servant, Alex

Rupanuga’s reply:

The reason I proposed to initiate was to level the playing field. Those of us not initiating were at a distinct disadvantage to manage what Srila Prabhupada gave us because the new disciples were under the guru’s control. You cannot imagine how after Srila Prabhupada disappeared, the members of the GBC who were initiating, turned against the rest of us. The Raksasas who are in control of this planet were waiting in the wings to pounce on their false egos. Face it, the Raksasas are still in control, especially Iskcon, certainly their number one target, since no one else has any idea what the hell is going on?

You may “respectfully disagree” with what is actually recorded. You make the same interpretation that the rtviks and some others make. Do you think that after serving Srila Prabhupada as GBC from its first day I would not have the intelligence to understand such an important direction from His Divine Grace, having exchanged 100 letters with him and had many conversations with him directly? Do you think I am such a fool that I would not be able to understand his final instructions to me? I was in a real sense fortunate not to be named. Why? Practically speaking I had just given up sannyas in 1974 after two years and returned to my wife. The details of this event are beyond your ken. But how could Srila Prabhupada appoint a fallen sannyasi? Even though I was senior to all of them except Satsvarupa, who had joined 2 months before me. Remember, he said “I have chosen my best men to be GBC.” What does that say for the rest of us? I offered to resign when I gave up sannyas, but Srila Prabhupada wouldn’t have it, and you will never understand why he didn’t.

You will believe from me only what you want to believe, so why bother asking me?

Now in my 85th year, I have no time to waste. Srila Prabhupada is protecting me as long as I tell the truth, that is a fact. Endless investigations are useless because Srila Prabhupada-vani is in charge of the real movement, the one he brought to America, the true parampara.

Better to spend your intelligence and time preaching Prabhupada direct, to whom it matters. Reformers need to reform themselves first, and then pass on what they have understood from His Divine Grace, without changing it. The world, as predicted by Srila Prabhupada, is on the way to a cleansing disaster, which will reveal the golden age more and more. Why not be a part in that preparation, and become spiritually and materially self-sufficient? Why get stuck on the tar-baby of Iskcon and its reactive denominations? Why not follow Bhaktivinode Thakur’s admonition to let the past sleep, nor dwell on the future at all, but act in times that are with thee, and progress thou shalt call? We owe it to Srila Prabhupada, to carry on his mission, without being distracted by revisionists, separatists, reformers, etal.

The truth is in the uninterpolated books, room conversations, morning walks, letters and lectures. All of this is already vijnana–realized knowledge; everything Srila Prabhupada gave us is already realized knowledge. This is a very important point! Anyone can become a spiritual master if they don’t change anything or cheat anyone. There are grades of spiritual masters just as there are grades of pure devotees and “grades” of rasas. There are always some better than others and Lord Krishna’s is just and absolute about it.

May I suggest that you come and see me, but the answers to your questions would take volumes if I attempt to write them and you need the opportunity to ask questions as they come to your mind. Or maybe a zoom? Hare Krishna.

Your servant,

Rupanuga das, ACBSP

My Reply:

Dear Rupanuga Prabhu,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Wait a minute, it was you who sent me GBC’s ISKCON Journal pages with their nonsense handwritten minutes that contradict the recorded tape. And then you decline to answer questions about it? Why do you send out this handwritten minutes book? Why not mention that there was another, printed version of it that was actually sent out to ISKCON? How is it that GBC signed one thing, and ISKCON got another version of the minutes with serious omissions/changes?

Why you don’t also send out July 9th, 1977 directive to all TP’s and GBC’s signed by Srila Prabhupada which is his last written order in regards to initiations in ISKCON, or his Final Will, 1977 letters on initiations, the actual tape recordings of 1977 (not only May 28, 1977, but also July 7, July 19, 1977, etc.), newly published 1977 ritvik letters by Tamal Krishna (like July 12, 1977, July 22, 1977), eyewitnesses testimonies of a number of devotees who were there with Srila Prabhupada or visited him in spring, summer and fall of 1977 and who say that Srila Prabhupada clearly intended ritvik system of initiations to be continued in ISKCON after his physical departure (like Yasoda nandana, Gauridas Pandit, Gargamuni, Cyavana Swami, Pita, etc.)? Do you think all of them are fools?

You were there during 28 May, 1977 meeting, alright. But I too have ears to hear the recorded tape. It supports ritvik initiations after departure, “especially when you are no longer with us”! I didn’t “disagree” with it. I have carefully heard and studied it a number of times. It may not be easy to understand something immediately at that time in 1977, especially when some others were hiding or distorting Srila Prabhupada’s instructions, but now we have much more available evidence that clearly point to the ritvik initiations. Why stick to the old wrong understanding? How is it that July 9th, 1977 letter refers to the May GBC meeting: “Recently when all of the GBC members were with His Divine Grace in Vrndavana, Srila Prabhupad indicated that soon He would appoint some of His senior disciples to act as “rittik”—representative of the acarya, for the purpose of performing initiations, both first initiation and second initiation. His Divine Grace has so far given a list of eleven disciples who will act in that capacity” — and nothing, not a word is mentioned that Srila Prabhupada supposedly appointed them as diksa gurus now or after the departure? And nothing about successor gurus or their own disciples in the Final Will, instead Srila Prabhupada stated that future executive directors of ISKCON property, even their “successors”, must be “my initiated disciple[s]”. By sending out the handwritten minutes you essentially indicate that 11 people were appointed by Srila Prabhupada as initiating gurus? And you do so now, after having already claimed they hijacked the GBC and ISKCON?? Am I right? I just try to understand why do you send these minutes? And at the same time you are basically telling that ISKCON is now controlled or influenced by raksasas (and it is controlled by those pseudo gurus, old and new ones)?? Do you think Srila Prabhupada appointed 11 acaryas who succumbed to raksasa influence, horrible deviations and crimes and disgraced ISKCON all over the world? I am sure they disobeyed Srila Prabhupada and they were never authorized as initiating gurus.

You left maya-ISKCON, and you tell to preach about Srila Prabhupada and Krishna. That’s alright, but some questions come to my mind like who is the guru to whom new people should surrender? Who is their savior? Whose instructions should they concentrate on? Whose pranama they should chant? Whom they should offer food, service, etc. as their via medium representative of Lord Krishna? Who is their initiating guru who will accept their sinful reactions? Do you initiate people yourself as your disciples? Or who is that current link diksa guru now? If not Srila Prabhupada as the current link guru and his ritvik system of initiations, then what exactly?

Next, you say, “The reason I proposed to initiate was to level the playing field”. That is, you decided to became one of their gurus because you felt some disadvantage in ISKCON compared to the already existed gurus. This is understandable, in a sense, but is this really proper reason for becoming initiating guru sampradaya link? Do you seriously refer to this as a valid reason? What advantage did you get, I wonder? In the net result you left soon anyway. Didn’t you think that you would become implicated in their strange, clearly bogus guru system?

It’s not just me who said that you were an ISKCON initiating guru. E.g. GBC website Dandavats has an article by Nrisimhananda das “History of Diksa Guru in ISKCON 1978-2014 – Revised”: http://www.dandavats.com/?p=12630

It mentions you as one of the “appointed” ISKCON gurus and then as one of the “suspended” ones. And you basically confirmed it.

What about the fact Srila Prabhupada never authorized ISKCON’s GBC to elect new diksa gurus? Where is that clear order to the GBC to elect future initiating gurus in ISKCON? Where are Srila Prabhupada instructions regarding multiple details of that system in ISKCON? Can you quote it? Srila Prabhupada himself didn’t get guru position in the hijacked Gaudiya Matha. He didn’t recognize the first GBC elected bogus acarya Ananta Vasudeva (who got 8 votes out of 13), or Bhakti Vilas Tirtha, or others from their camps. He said he never was with any of their deviated groups. Should I quote from Srila Prabhupada’s 28 April, 1974 letter to you that none of his Godbrothers are actually qualified to become acarya, that they began this guru affair when they “unauthorizedly selected” the next acarya and that we shouldn’t repeat their mistake of unqualified gurus in our ISKCON camp? Were you self-realized soul and authorized by Srila Prabhupada to become a diksa guru in ISKCON? He said when he will say “Now you become acarya. You become authorized” (22 April, 1977 conversation) then his disciple can become the next acarya/diksa-guru. Did he order that to you?

Several years ago Bhakti Vikasa Swami presented a lecture by you on his web site where you said that “Srila Prabhupada did appoint eleven madhyama-adhikaris to become diksa gurus.” Do you still think so? How does it relate to your statements that they hijacked GBC and ISKCON? They were appointed as diksa gurus, but those Prabhupada appointed bona fide gurus hijacked ISKCON? I just can’t see the logic here. What is your exact stance? It seems contradictory to me. If you still think Srila Prabhupada appointed them as diksa gurus and that his ritvik instructions should not be followed, then I must say that you are certainly on a very wrong path. Why follow it? I don’t mean any offence, but seriously, why follow it now?

If you wrote to me to say that you didn’t initiate disciples, I knew it, and I never claimed that you initiated any amount of disciples, and I am not going to say that. I know that you weren’t in the inner criminal circle, but still it’s a historical fact that you became an ISKCON initiating guru in 1980s and then left. I know about raksasas that try to control big banks, corporations, the whole world and ISKCON, and I do preach to new people about Srila Prabhupada and Krishna. I don’t use Zoom.

Thank you. Sincerely and wishing you all good luck.

YS, Alex

Rupanuga’s reply:

To each his own. Apply all the logic and reason you want. But don’t worry too much about truth and falsity. It all comes out at the time of death for everyone, when it’s all about our standing at Srila Prabhupada’s lotus feet in the eyes of Lord Krishna. In the meantime, is it not best to help other individuals understand Srila Prabhupada’s mission for themselves and their destiny?

Never mind the machinations of mice and men, prisoners of time and space. No one must go through Iskcon, the GBC or anything else, if they have Srila Prabhupada’s original books and lectures. If the books are a problem, the lectures are there, direct association.

We share our love for Srila Prabhupada by convincing others to hear him reveal Lord Krishna.

Srila Prabhupada-vani can speak for himself. He is the most quoted, photographed personality in the world. He cannot be controlled by the conditioned souls of this planet. All glories to Srila Prabhupada and to hell with the complex illusions of this place. We have him, and he has Krishna.

Your servant,

Rupanuga das, ACBSP

 

My final comment: Unfortunately, I didn’t hear practically anything substantial from Rupanuga prabhu.

—
Alexander Stegantsev

 

 

Full 5h video “Rupanuga Prabhu Speaks Out”