Prabhupada: First of all, “Who is God?” Then we shall ask, “Who told God?” That God… That is the Vedanta-sutra, athato brahma jijnasa: “Now we should enquire about God, what is God, who is God?” Unless you know who is God, how can you raise the question, “Who instructed God?” If you do not know God, then the question does not arise, “Who instructed God?” Is it not? Yes. So therefore God is explained in the Brahma-sutra, janmady asya yatah: [Bhag. 1.1.1] “God is He from everything comes, emanates.” That is God. That God is explained in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, janmady asya yatah: “The Supreme Being from whom everything emanates.” Now, what is that Supreme Being? What is the nature of the Supreme Being? It is a dead stone or a living being? That is also explained. Janmady asya yatah anvayad itaratas ca arthesu abhijnah sva-rat. “That God is fully cognizant of everything, directly and indirectly.” Unless He is fully cognizant of everything, directly and indirectly, He is not God. So then the same question comes, as you said, that “Who taught God?”
O’Grady: Yes, that’s the man I want to meet.
Prabhupada: That is answered, sva-rat. “Independent.” That is God.
O’Grady: Independ…?
Prabhupada: Independent. He is fully independent. He does not require to take lessons from anyone. That is God. That is God. If anyone requires to take lesson from other, he is not God. Who does not require to take lesson from other, that is God.
O’Grady: Where does human love enter into it?
Prabhupada: Everything is there. Because love is also coming from God. So we are being part and parcel of God, there is part and parcel manifestation of love because the original love is there in God. Because nothing can exist. Nothing can exist if it is not in God.
O’Grady: Therefore we love.
Prabhupada: The love is also there in God.
O’Grady: But God is not love?
Prabhupada: God is love. God is everything.
O’Grady: Oh, yeah. Then love is God.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
O’Grady: Our manifestations of love are manifestations of God.
Prabhupada: Ah… Because we are part and parcel… Just like son born of a particular father, he has got the symptoms, so because there is loving propensity in God and we being part and parcel of God, therefore we have got this loving propensity. This is the conclusion. Unless the loving propensity is there in God, where we get it?
O’Grady: Maybe it’s generated in you by the need…
Prabhupada: No, there is no question of “maybe.” It must be, must be.
O’Grady: Oh, very… Yes, I accept the strong word.
Prabhupada: Yes. There is no question of… Because we have defined God, janmady asya yatah [Bhag. 1.1.1]. God is He wherefrom everything emanates. That is God. So love, love or even fight. The fighting propensity is also there in God. And loving propensity is also there in God. But His fighting propensity and loving propensity—absolute. Just like in the material world we have got experience, fighting propensity is just opposite the loving propensity. But in God, either fighting propensity or loving propensity, they are one and the same, therefore He is absolute. That is the meaning of absolute. Just like we get from sastras. The so-called enemies of God who is killed by God, he also attains perfection.
O’Grady: Yes, the vengeful… Yes, that I understand, the avenging God of Biblical imagination as against… Is it possible to do it all on your own, alone?
Prabhupada: No. Therefore the Vedas say, tad-vijnanartham sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Abhigacchet means “he must.” It is not possible alone. This word, this abhigacchet, this verb, is used in Sanskrit grammar… This is called vidhilin form of verb. So vidhilin form of verb is used when there is a…, matter is a must. Tad- vijnanartham sa gurum eva abhigacchet, samit-panih srotriyam. And that is the Vedic version. Therefore… You have read Bhagavad-gita. You will find Arjuna was talking with Krishna. Then, when the things were not solved, perplexed, Arjuna surrendered himself, sisyas te ’ham sadhi mam prapannam. Find out this verse.
Nitai: Text seven.
karpanya-dosopahata-svabhavah prcchami tvam dharma-sammudha-cetah yac chreyah syan niscitam bruhi tan me sisyas te ’ham sadhi mam tvam prapannam
“Now I am confused about my duty and have lost all composure because of weakness.”
Prabhupada: Yes. That… Here is the question, “confused.”
O’Grady: I am the first statement. “I am confused about my duty,” that what is the… Thank you.
Nitai: “…and have lost all composure because of weakness. In this condition I am…”
O’Grady: This duty, this duty, is this duty to the self or duty to others or duty to the state?
Prabhupada: He is confused because he was a ksatriya, soldier. A soldier’s duty is to fight with the enemy. So Krishna was advising him, “The opposite party is your enemy. You are a ksatriya. Why you are trying to become non-violent? This is not good.” Therefore he says, “Actually I am now confused. So in confusion I cannot take the right conclusion. I therefore accept You as my spiritual master. You just give me the proper lesson.” This is the point. So they were friends. Still, he was confused. So in chaotic condition, in confusion status of life, we must approach the person who is in full knowledge of the things. Just like you go to a lawyer, you go to a physician; similarly, every one of us in the material world, we are confused. Therefore we must go to the spiritual master who can give us real knowledge.
O’Grady: Right. So, therefore, for example, I am very confused.
Prabhupada: What is that?
Atreya Rsi: He is confused.
O’Grady: Very confused.
Prabhupada: Yes. So you must approach a spiritual master.
O’Grady: And you make a decision, therefore to try to sort this confusion, to make some…
Prabhupada: Yes. Spiritual master means who solves all confusion. That is spiritual master. When one is confused, he goes to a spiritual master, and the spiritual master’s duty is to save him from all confusion. That is the relationship between the spiritual master and the disciple. If the spiritual master cannot save him from confusion, then he is not spiritual master. That is the test.
samsara-davanala-lidha-loka- tranaya karunya-ghanaghanatvam praptasya kalyana-gunarnavasya vande guroh sri-caranaravindam **
This whole world is confusion, just like a blazing fire in the forest. When there is forest fire, all the animals become confused, “Where to go? How to save life?” It is very good example. When there is fire in the forest, all the animals become confused. Similarly, this material world is just like a blazing fire in the forest. Everyone is confused. Now how the blazing fire in the forest can be extinguished? You cannot take there your man-made fire brigade. That is not possible. Neither bucketful of water. So in this confused state of the human society you cannot manufacture the solution. The only solution is that when there is rain from the cloud on the forest fire, then it is extinguished. That is not in your hand; that is mercy of God. So spiritual master means who has received the mercy of God and he can deliver to the confused man. Then the solution is there. This is very good verse, samsara-davanala-lidha-loka-tranaya karunya-ghanaghanatvam, praptasya. One who has received mercy of God, he can become spiritual master. He can deliver the mercy of God.
Poet Desmond O’Grady passed away last year at the age of 78. He was a very fortunate man to have a personal audience with Srila Prabhupada. Although he apparently didn’t accept Prabhupada as his spiritual master, his contact with Krishna’s pure devotee and his humble inquiry will benefit him nonetheless.
In the above interview, Mr. O’Grady admits that was was “very confused.” Without a bona fide spiritual master to guide him, he was right. In later years, he wrote the following:
“I saw my life and I walked out to it
as a seaman walks out alone at night from
his house down to the port with his bundled
belongings, and sails into the dark.”
All glories to Srila Prabhupada who has given us the eyes to see. May Krishna bless Desmond O’Grady with continued advancement in devotional service, by Prabhupada’s mercy and kindness.