UCG.org: “In Origen De Principiis, Origen (Christian church father) wrote: “… The soul, having a substance and life of its own, shall after its departure from the world, be rewarded according to its deserts, being destined to obtain either an inheritance of eternal life and blessedness, if its actions shall have procured this for it, or to be delivered up to eternal fire and punishments, if the guilt of its crimes shall have brought it down to this …” Origen taught that human souls existed before the body but are imprisoned in the physical world as a form of punishment. Physical life, he reasoned, is a purification process to return humans to a spiritual state.”
Hayagriva: This is Origen, who lived from 185-254 A.D., and he studied at Alexandria, Egypt, during the same time as Plotinus. In fact he knew Plotinus, but Origen was a Christian and is considered the founder of Christian philosophy. He believed that ultimate reality, which is spiritual, consists of the Supreme Infinite Person, God, as well as individual personalities. Ultimate reality is the interrelationships of persons with each other and with the Infinite Person, God. So he differed from Plotinus in the belief that God has personality.
Prabhupada: Yes. God is personal. He is also believing personality.
Hayagriva: At the same time Origen differed from the later Church tradition in his belief in the transmigration of the soul. Although he believed that the soul was originally created, he believed that it transmigrated, and it transmigrated because the soul, the individual soul, could always refuse to give itself to God, although he believed that ultimately the time will come when everyone will return, and God’s rule will be restored to its original integrity. This differed from later Christian tradition, which said that the choice one made in this one lifetime was decisive for all eternity. Origen doesn’t believe this. He believes that you can be reincarnated at the end of this lifetime if you don’t attain the ultimate goal. You’d be reincarnated in some other form.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is our version of the Vedas. Unless he is liberated or goes to the kingdom of God, he is, repeats, transforms, or transmigrates from one material body to another, because material body is not eternal. You can enter one material body; the material body grows or it remains for sometime; then it becomes old, and then it is useless for any purpose; you have to give up this material body and enter again into a new material body. Then you continue or fulfill your desire in that body, again it becomes old, again you have to give up, and again you have to accept another new body. Because everything material deteriorates, and the soul, being eternal, it cannot remain in the deteriorated body to function materially; therefore transmigration of the soul is essential. As the example is given that when you have got a material shirt and coat, when it is old enough, it cannot be used, you have to throw it out and accept another new shirt and coat. The material conditional life is like that. That is called transmigration.
Hayagriva: It’s interesting that Origen did not reject transmigration, neither did Christ reject transmigration. It wasn’t until later, until the next philosopher that we take up, Augustine, that the idea of…
Prabhupada: Transmigration is…
Hayagriva: Transmigration (indistinct).
Prabhupada: …philosophical and, I mean, fact. The example is very nicely given in the Bhagavad-gita, with dress. As a person cannot continue the same dress perpetually—the dress becomes old, useless, and he has to change his dress—so the living being is eternal, but he has to accept a material body for material sense gratification. But the body cannot endure perpetually. Therefore it is very natural to understand that he has to change the body exactly like he has to change the dress.
Hayagriva: So that’s the conclusion of Origen. (end)
Full discussion: http://prabhupadabooks.com/classes/philosophy/hayagriva/origen
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