Prabhupada, June 24, 1975, Los Angeles: […] And theology is science of God. So what is that science? You are trying to understand God, or you know God; you are going to abide by God’s dictation. First of all, two things: you do not know God; you are trying to find out God. I think this is not theology; it is theosophy. Those who are trying to find out God by speculation, they are theosophist. And theologist means one who knows God and abides by his order. Just like we know government and we accept the government’s law and abide by it. That is good citizenship. And those who have no government, they are trying to find out some good system of government, and that is another thing. So what is your position? You know God or you are trying to find out God? What is the theologician’s position? That is my question.
Dr. Crossley: It’s both.
Prabhupada: No, both cannot be.
Dr. Crossley: Some seek…
Prabhupada: No, both cannot be. That is illogical. If you know God, there is no use of finding Him out. You know already who is God.
Dr. Crossley: Is knowing the end of seeking?
Prabhupada: Oh yes. You abide by His law. That’s all. You know your father. Abide by his law, that’s all. Whatever father says, you abide by that. And if you do don’t know who is your father, that is very difficult job? How do you find your father? By research? Do you find your father by research work? That is my question. Is it possible to find my father by research work? What is the answer?
Dr. Crossley: I think you know your father. You know who he is.
Prabhupada: How I know?
Dr. Crossley: Because you see him, you talk to him, you touch him.
Prabhupada: But what is the proof that he is my father? I see so many gentlemen. How I know who is my father?
Dr. Crossley: He tells you you’re his son.
Prabhupada: That means you accept anyone as God—he tells that “I am God”?
Dr. Crossley: No, but I accept anyone as father who tells me that I am his son because only one has ever told me that.
Prabhupada: No, that is not the way. Everyone will say, “I am your father.” You will accept? Everyone will say, “I am your father.” Will you accept everyone as your father? Then how do you accept the bona fide father? Hmm?
Dr. Wolfe: Foster fathers very often tell their foster children that they are the real fathers.
Prabhupada: No, no, we are not talking of foster; we are talking of real father. How do you know your real father?
Dr. Crossley: You’ve grown up with him. You’ve known him since you were a little child. It’s part of your consciousness.
Prabhupada: So if my consciousness is not right, then I may select a wrong father.
Dr. Crossley: Well, just because you know he’s your father, there’s still more to know about him. There’s more and more to understand.
Prabhupada: It is… Very simple answer is: when the mother certifies, “He is your father,” that’s all. You don’t have to make research. That is futile. By research, you cannot understand who is your real father. You can understand your real father only by the certificate of your mother. That’s all. Therefore our Vedic mantra says that religion and God cannot be manufactured by speculation. Acintyah khalu ye bhava na tams tarkena yojayet. Just like this example, father. Father was existing before my birth. So after my birth, with limited knowledge I make research who is my father—you will never find your father. But if you take the certificate of your mother, that is there. Similarly, acintyah khalu ye bhava, things which are beyond our conception, that cannot be established simply by argument, logic, so-called science and philosophy, that is not possible. The same example: by argument, logic, science, philosophy you cannot ascertain who is your father. The only simple method and authorized method is to ask mother, and if she says, “Yes, he is your father…” Similarly, things which are beyond our conception, simply argument will be useless. Acintyah khalu ye bhava na tams tarkena yo… Tarka means arguments. In another place it is said, tarka, argument, is futile. Tarkah apratisthah: “By argument, you cannot come to the right conclusion.” You can argue in a way; I can argue a better way, he can argue in better way. That is not the system. That will not help. Tarko apratisthah srutayo vibhinnah. If you study scriptures, so in the world there are many varieties of scriptures. There is Bible, there is Bhagavad-gita, there is Koran, there is so on, so on. So which one is correct? That also you cannot decide. Srutayo vibhinnah, and nasau munir yasya matam na bhinnam. And if you consult philosophers or scientists, every scientist, every philosopher, differs from the other. Otherwise he cannot become a big scientist. He must give a different view; then he is big scientist. So nasau munir yasya matam na bhinnam. Then where is the way to understand? The conclusion is mahajano yena gatah sa panthah: “Mahajana, great personalities, recognized acarya, what they say, you follow.” That is the best system. So anyone who is speaking about God with authority—take for example Jesus Christ; he is speaking in the western world—you accept him. We Indians, we accept Caitanya or Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya. That is the way. That is the way because these acaryas, these authorities, they are speaking about God. None of them speaking that “You become happy here,” no, none of them. Either Christ or Caitanya or Mohammed, nobody has said. So according to the time, circumstances, position, either you follow any one of them as it suits you or, if you can make a comparative study, you follow the best one. So therefore, our conclusion is Krishna is the best. He is God. Christ is son of God. So we don’t differ son of God and God. That is all right. But when the father is speaking personally, he is speaking what the son has spoken plus something because he is more experienced. So take the father and follow him. That’s all. Mohammed says he is servant of God. Christ says he is son of God. And Krishna says, “I am God.” So where is the difference? The son will say the same thing, the servant will say the same thing, and the father also will say the same thing. So theology means to know God and abide by His order. That is my understanding. And theology does not mean to make research who is God. That is theosophy. So if you are theologicians, then you must know what is God and abide by His order. What do you think, Dr. Judah?
Dr. Judah: Pardon?
Prabhupada: What do you think this proposition?
Dr. Judah: Yes, well, I think you’re quite right. I think that it is… Certainly, in our day and age many of us don’t really know God.
Prabhupada: Then he is not theologician. He is theosophist.
Dr. Judah: We know about God, but we do not know God. I would agree.
Prabhupada: Then that is theosophist. Theosophists, they are thinking there is something superior. But who is that superior, they are searching out. The same thing: a boy, he knows, “I have a father,” but “Who is my father? That I do not know.” Oh, that, you have to ask your mother. That’s all.” Alone he cannot understand. So our proposition is that if you do not know God and here is God, Krishna, why don’t you accept Him? You do not know first of all. And if I present, “Here is God,” then why don’t you accept? What is the answer? We are presenting God, “Here is God.” And big, big acaryas have accepted. Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Visnusvami, Lord Caitanya, in our disciplic succession my Guru Maharaja, and I am preaching, “This is God.” I am not presenting a God whimsically. I am presenting a God who is recognized. So why don’t you accept? What is the difficulty?
Dr. Judah: I suppose one of the difficulties for certainly many in the older generation is that we follow certain patterns of life and the… It is difficult to change. This is the great problem.
Prabhupada: Then you are not serious about God. Then you are not serious. Therefore Krishna said, sarva-dharman parityaja mam ekam saranam: “You have to give up.”
Dr. Judah: That’s right.
Prabhupada: Because if you are not prepared to give up, then you cannot accept God.
Dr. Pore: I think you’re being a little unfair to Dr. Crossley. I think what you say is true, that the most important thing we can do is to seek and know God, but I don’t think it’s right to say that it’s a bad thing to study how other people or how man has…
Prabhupada: No, I don’t say bad thing. I say if you are serious about God, now, here is God.
Garden Conversation
with Professors, Chairman
of the Religion Dept. of U.S.C.,
and Dr. Stillson Judah, and others
by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
June 24, 1975, Los Angeles
Full Conversation: http://prabhupadabooks.com/conversations/1975/jun/garden_conversation_with_professors/los_angeles/june/24/1975
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