Tamala Krishna: Well, I have studied myself and all of your disciples, and it’s clear fact that we are all conditioned souls, so we cannot be guru. Maybe one day it may be possible… …but not now.
Myth Creation Begun
BY: NRSIMHANANDA DAS
Feb 19, LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA (SUN) — Canonization (or canonisation) is the act by which a particular Christian church or group declares a deceased person to be a saint and includes that person in the canon, or list, of recognized saints. Originally, individuals were recognized as saints without any formal process.
Recent remarks in Mayapur by HH Bhakti Caru Swami at HH Tamal Krishna Goswami’s memorial service seem to be the beginning of ISKCON’s deification of some of Srila Prabhupada’s disciples. Bhakti Caru Swami’s speculation that Tamal Krishna Goswami was an eternal associate sent by Krishna to help Srila Prabhupada expand his mission in a very powerful way is merely that, a speculation – an act of guesswork.
I don’t pretend to know who is or who isn’t a maha-bhagavata in disguise as a lowly Western hippie, destined to eventually be revealed as a pure devotee performing his or her lila. Such evaluations are not possible by this, or any conditioned soul. Even if they were, such pronouncements cannot be verified by anyone other than a pure devotee. I’m sure that Bhakti Caru Swami’s sentiments of love and affection for Tamal Krishna Goswami are genuine, as must be those of his friends and disciples, but broadcasting such an opinion to the society of devotees by an ISKCON leader should certainly be attenuated by a humble attitude of, “I can’t say for sure; I’m just offering a prayer of gratitude.”
The second speculation that Bhakti Caru Swami offered at the same event was an opinion that Tamal Krishna Goswami chose his time of death. He cites the doctor’s opinion that he left his body before the car crashed as well as some remarks that Tamal Krishna Goswami made the prior day. Frankly, I don’t know where to go with this invention. I ask myself, why? Why do people want to revise history through interpretation. Bhakti Caru Swami is entitled to his own speculations, but as an ISKCON leader, guru, etc., he should understand that these fantastic remarks are taken seriously by thousands of adoring fans. What lived in the past as a fact, now becomes a “story.” We are witnessing myth creation in the making.
Such fictionalization also leaves able room for those other gurus who helped Srila Prabhupada to attain similar status as eternal associates. If guru by ecclesiastical (call it what you will) convention is the GBC’s invention, elevating the status of the first crop of ISKCON gurus to saintly status may not far behind. I never did understand how the Vatican could post-mortem vote on whether a person could become beatified, ultimately canonized. Now I am seeing the incubation of that process, uncannily familiar to rising up the corporate ladder – only this one is Jacob’s.
I ask ISKCON leaders to give us facts; we’re adults (many of us, matured ones) who can make up our own opinions.
For emphasis, I repeat: “Originally, individuals were recognized as saints without any formal process.” True for the Catholics, and, certainly true, for the Vaisnavas.
Note: So far, there is no indication that the GBC is involved in any formal process of canonization, and I don’t want anyone to think that I am finding them guilty of such in any way. I’m just concerned that the silent acceptance of Bhakti Caru Swami’s speculation will encourage such thinking.
PADA: Yes, this is interesting. Bhakti Caru is glorifying Tamal as some sort of great acharya who deserves a worshipped samadhi. I was listening to another lecture from Mayapura where the prabhu was glorfying Tamal for his “sitting in the front row at the Christian college he attended in the 1980s, because he was eager to learn.” Tamal was eager to learn Christianity at a Christian college, and that makes him a vaishnava acharya? These people have lost the last marble rattling in their brains, because they also say, worship of Jesus is the bogus ritvik idea and anyone who follows that (like Tamal was by his going to a Christian college) is a deviant, their own messiah is thus a deviant for studying the siddhanta of the Christians? I have to go and take my percodans now. Sheesh! thanks pd
Prabhupada conversation April 22, 1977
Tamala Krishna: Well, I have studied myself and all of your disciples, and it’s clear fact that we are all conditioned souls, so we cannot be guru. Maybe one day it may be possible…
Prabhupada: Hm.
Tamala Krishna: …but not now.
Prabhupada: Yes. I shall produce some gurus. I shall say who is guru, ‘Now you become acharya. You become authorised.’ I am waiting for that. You become, all, acharya. I retire completely. But the training must be complete.
Tamala Krishna: The process of purification must be there.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes, must be there. Caitanya Mahaprabhu wants that. Amara ajnaya guru hana. “You become guru.” (laughs) But be qualified. Little thing, strictly follower…
Tamala Krishna: Not rubber stamp.
Prabhupada: Then you’ll not be effective. You can cheat, but it will not be effective. Just see our Gaudiya Matha. Everyone wanted to become guru, and a small temple and “guru.” What kind of guru?
Prabhupada: What is the use of producing some rascal guru?
Bhakti Charu Swamis History
Tamal Krishnas History
These people have lost all sense of shame and what remains is some kind of annoying black humor. And what about the poison rascaldom? Was Srila Prabhupada some kind of fool like those speaking nonsense when he says that they were poisoning him? In the Bhagavad Gita , S.P.says that the senses of a pure devotee are directly controlled by Krishna, so why Krishna says that they where poisoning S.P.? The problem is that these fools don’t believe in the words of KRISHNA neither in the words of SRILA PRABHUPADA that is their misfortune. They don’t believe neither in the Bhagavatam in the person Bhagavat, that’s why they are not afraid to go to hell, even the Christians say that the beginning of all wisdom is fear to God. SRILA PRABHUPADA KI JAYA.
With due respect to the conspirational drama-theory that Prabhupada was apparantly poisoned by his spiritual sons who wanted to be kings (viz. Hamlet, 3rd Act), I would be happy if the publishers would kindly avoid publishing injurious and blasphemous comments on Vaishnavas. Yes, the later Tamal Krishna Goswami was empowered by a pure devotee of Krishna to spread Krishna conciousness around the world. And he did it. Bhakti Caru Swami was empowered, Nrinhananda Prabhu was empowered, Sri Yamuna das was empowered. Be it for a decade, or half a century, or even a second – anyone empowered by pure devotees of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu is a fortunate soul – even if he or she fails to stick to the path for whatever reason.
In this regard I found the precepts of His Divine Grace Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur, published on this site :), very relevant:
– Let me not desire anything but the highest good for my worst enemies
– You cannot appreciate transcendental matters with the reasoning of the world. It is sheer nonsense to decry them with the measuring stick of your intellect.
– A sycophant is neither a guru or a preacher
– The Lord, Gaurasundara, puts His devotees in various difficulties and associations to test their patience and strength of mind. Success depends on their good fortune.
May my humble opinion be met with sweet satisfaction amongst those who are truly genuine followers of Ac Bhaktivedanta swami Prabhupada.I find these comments about my freind and siksa guru Tamala krishna goswami a sad indicator of how iskcon will infact thrive after the swift departure of many of his immature and sadly envious godbrothers!
As a seasoned sankirtan devotee of some twenty odd years,fashioned after serving within temples as a cook for a further ten years ,i am repeatedly shocked at how little many of his godbrothers have sincerly followed our common devotional vaishnava etiquette and sincere glorification of those who infact served srila PRABHUPADA intimately while he was here.Then took responsibility to guide his iskcon society after his departure.Because enviousness is sadly meant to have been ripped out of ones heart by now after 35 years -45 years of devotional service is it not?You are an embarassment to our guru!Tamala krishna swami is one of the few Prabhupada Disciples to actually not embarass your generation!He did not fall down as a guru,gbc member and senior representitive of SRILA PRABHUPADA.He was the foremost servant of Srila PRABHUPADA,in my humble opinion.In my freinds veiw he was a bastion of staunch effective Prabhupada concious service,whose obvious sincerity brought him to the early attention of his divine grace….Your generation actually belittles your selves when you fail to see in a mood of non-envious fellow servant,a great soul has indeed gone to serve his guru in the spiritual world.We as the next leaders of Prabhupada’s ISKCON have to try and explain the plain lack of non-enviousness and plain forgiving and loving spirit which is meant to ornament you!Hopefully out there …….! there are some truly great Souls blessed with Srila PRABHUPADA’S grace and sublime purity,who can appreciate a great servant has left!….your servant yuga_avatar_das….Tamala -krishna goswami ….ki jaya!
Hari Bol Yuga Avatar das, since you reject what thousands of victims are saying, read again what your shiksa-guru TKG said:
“Actually, Prabhupada never appointed any gurus. He didn’t appoint eleven gurus. He appointed eleven ritviks. He never appointed them gurus.
Myself and the other GBC have done the greatest disservice to this movement the last three years (34 years now) because we interpreted the appointment of ritviks as the appointment of gurus.â€
If you consider this as right and true what your shiksa-guru said, then you should try to also understand the meaning of, “the greatest disservice”. However when reading your statements above it seems, you’re rejecting your shiksa-guru when he says, “the greatest disservice”. So you’re simultaneously accepting and rejecting your shiksa-guru? Since I’m not a psychiatrist, it’s hard to find an answer for your diremption.
No hay peor ciego que el que no quiere ver (there is no worst blind man that thouse who don’t want to see).HARIBOL. SRILA PRABHUPADA KI JAY.
Yuga_Avatar_Das: ” He (Tamal Krishna) was the foremost servant of Srila PRABHUPADA, in my humble opinion”
Tamal Krishna: “Myself and the other GBC have done the greatest disservice to this movement the last three years (34 now) because we interpreted the appointment of ritviks as the appointment of gurus.”
Tama Krishna frankly admits that he has done the greatest disservice to his Gurus movement. Why do you, Yuga_Avatar, argue against Tamals own statement? How than can he (Tamal), a fallen and failable conditioned soul, who died in a car crash, have gone to serve his guru in the spiritual world? by doing the greatest disservice?
jay prabhus pamho agtsp well to tell you the truth none can understand lord caitanya mahaprabhu until we get a spiritual body that means we are not fit at this moment of confusion regarding iskcon bbt samstapakacarya srila prabhupada ki jay of course speculation is running all the time especially in this dark age the only way is to get greedy for suddha nam loulyam without waste time kalatvam this is our duty as pioneers of iskcon at the moment and the future generations will do it properly under the direction of the nitya siddha of gauranga mahaprabhu we got problems at the moment because of the beginning of this golden age as you know all the dirty come out in the beginning of the next 9500 years of satya yuga so i’m not surprise to see everyone fighting and this fight will be over only when we find out our eternal relation with sri krsna this movement belong to him not to us as bogus guru are often thinking agtys your sevant seva das haribol
jay prabhus pamho agtacbsp thank you for the newsletter they shouldn’t do the samadhi of tkg next to acbsp in mayapur i can understand that this mistake is duty to the influence of kali yuga that make our bhakti process very slow because we don’t know who we are at the moment anyway the so called nitya siddha of acbsp tkg left the body in a very strange way because of the murder of our beloved acarya and they still do mental speculation by glorify him these sumanda matayo manda bhagya upadrutah people are going straight to hell after leaving the body full of stool as the sri isopanisad say ignorance is dangerous but knowledge is even more dangerous when is use to mislead innocent people i found my temple and my people in iskcon bangalore temple the best iskcon temple because they are aware that srila prabhupada is still alive is not dead as some of these bogus guru are thinking by take his position without been qualify srila prabhupada still give initiation to a lot of devotees in iskcon bangalore temple jps sent the gunda years ago in iskcon bangalore temple to destroy the ritvik of acbsp and we can understand that he is wrong by see what’s happen to him almost lost his life several times they are celebrate his vyasa puja today anyway i’m none very insignicant jivatma i just try my best to get out from this chaotic situation by don’t get involve with nobody because sometime vani is better then vapu especially when there is forgetfulness of our real business in martyaloka of course all respect for nehabhikrama naso sti but without knowing the real identity the so called austerity and sacrifice don’t bring us immediately to enjoy our original svarup with sri krsna that’s the real life not politic argue and fight that is the root of this sinful kali age unless we are realized soul is better to shut up instead of showing off our stupidity through mental speculation by say what is not we can lose everything in one second so where is the benefit of argue and fight? the answer is in the catur sloka bhagavatam ,i try my best to surrender completely to our beloved acraya acbsp in this life without mixing with misunderstanding jay prabhupadanugas agtys dandavats daso smi seva das das anu das haribol